hanging interior solid core doors

A friend asked me if I could come show him how to hang a door. He has twelve of them to do. I say sure I will come give a 30 minute lesson and he can hang them with another buddy.
Turns out that his doors are heavy, solid core doors, that are meant to be installed before the drywall, with the finished drywall returning to the jamb.
Now I know that the basics will be the same, but 2″ 16ga. nails wouldn’t hold the hinge side in place until I had the strike side set. And although his framing is pretty good, it’s not perfect, so what do I do about out-of-plumb where his jamb is going to need to protrude past the framing?
My gut reaction is to set the top hinge side and drive a 3″ screw through it, and the other two hinges the same, then pin the strike side with 2-1/2″ nails. Still not sure what to do about the out of plumb problems though.
kh
Replies
Still not sure what to do about the out of plumb problems though.
First make the frame right.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You shimming for plumb, right? If the RO can be made right, do so, if not, and even if it can, I shim all doors at the hinge locations using a plumb bob. Solid core doors are also shimmed at the top and bottom of the jambs to counteract the effect of the weight of the door.
Shim it plumb, set the frame, drive a 2.5-3" wood screw thru each hinge and into the trimmer. Shim the lock jamb plumb and you're good to go. Ensure the head jamb is rock steady (shims at the top of each side jamb) or the door will sag over time.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
If there's enough clearance, back the hinge side of the jam with ply to stop it twisting from the weight of the door.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
what do I do about out-of-plumb where his jamb is going to need to protrude past the framing?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
a block of wood and a large/sledge hammer will often move a bottom plate to where it should be...
I just learned from this post to shim BOTH sides at the head jam... makes a ton of sense...just never did it as a practice before.... exactly why i read every post...
p
I assume you highlighted those words because you didn't understand what I meant. Getting the door plumb left-to-right is no problem, because I can shim it. However,getting the door plumb front-to-back, is another issue. With these doors, because the jamb depth is the same as the depth of the trimmers, the front-to-back plumb is a little trickier matter. If the trimmers are out of alignment from one another even 1/4" it turns into a problem. I hope this clarifies what I meant.kh
Thanks for the help everyone. THis is what I'm thinking for my proceedure.1) I'll shim the hinge side framing plumb ( I use a level instead of a plumb bob).
2) Set the door in place hinge side and screw it off through the hinge plates.
3) then can I set the strike side flush with the framing on that side and then adjust with a sledge and block
4) then set the head jamb with shims and nailsor does that seem to bass-ackward. The framing all looks pretty good, but not good enough that the door will hit correctly on the stop without some adjustment to the framing.Lastly, if I do wind up adjusting the trimmers with a sledge, will running a couple of sinkers through the bottom plate be enough to hold things in place? kh
I highlighted them because the others didn't understand your opening is off front to back. Figured they missed it.
I suggested you whop or toenail over or maybe reset the wall if it's that off to bring the framing into plane and make it plumb. Now the door jamb can run with the framing and the drywall returns will be straight up right like you'd like it. You can certainly fudge with flat taping or L bead a little bit of goof. That's the beauty of drywall returns. You want that jamb true so the door doesn't open or close itself.
We on the same page?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
If you can't realign the plate/wall, you might consider shaving both of the protruding jambs. This would create tapered jambs on the one side, but that also means that the jambs are now inset into the framing on the opposite side an equal amount that was shaved off. Tapered extension jambs would be required to get the jambs flush to the framing.
If the DW is to be returned to the jambs, isn't it easier to make the DW conform to the jambs, rather than working to get the jambs flush with the framing?
Either way, there will be some taper effect, unless the door is hung in the RO to conform to the out-of-plumb condition of the walls. Or you have a really good tape/mud guy.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Nick, you know I don't have any doors to hang right?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
If you have the time, I've got a few you can hang. : )
Yep.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"with the finished drywall returning to the jamb."
As in, no trim at all ?
Can't see it from my house, thank goodness...bad plan w/solid core doors, IMHO, for exactly the reasons you are thinking about...
The framing has to be plumb in the direction perpendicular to the wall (you knew that already) to make the drywall look good-sledge hammers & sawzalls get that done.
Then I'd hang the jambs just like always, shim 'em, tack 'em in w/the finish nailer on the hinge side (shoot through a shim scrap so they don't sink), hang the door & do the strike side...if you don't go hanging on the door too much, a few tacks at each hinge will hold it enough to get the strike side good, & then nail it off, in my experience...
Staingrade or paint?
Long-term survival of heavy doors and trimless jambs is tough enough without bad framing.
Regardless of what the framing is doing, it's most often the best fix to plan on attaching the door jamb plumb and level, even if that means framing adjustments in, out, up, down, crosswise, or whatnot.
Most walls can be fixed enough to get by, but some can not. In those cases it might be necessary to adjust the jamb so the visual indicators appear verticle in relation to the sheetrock. Perhaps the jamb would have to be extended with an attached taper or something along those lines.
Like the others have said, if the framing can't be fixed it's most often easier to get sheetrock to meet the doors, rather than the other way around.
As for the hinges, do what you need to get a solid attachment since the trim won't be there to firm up the jamb. Sometimes on a trim-free jamb this can mean using longer or more screws, sometimes it's inletting a hardwood block behind the jamb at the hinge locations, sometimes it's using hidden screws under the door stop, and sometimes it's all of the above with a little pl10 for good measure.
If the sheetrock is already up and the jambs just won't cover completely to the rock, it's a matter of poor planning and the sheetrockers will just have to come back and fill the gaps.
If the sheetrock isn't up yet, there isn't an excuse for not fixing the framing before the doors go in.
Good building
Trout,these are all stain-grade doors, and the framing is not that bad, maybe in places out 1/4" at the height of the door. I've never hung a trimless door, nor have I seen one in person. Though I thought that the jamb usually had a kerf in it to accept the L-bead (or whatever it might be called that attaches to the drywall), but these don't. Apparently the drywall guy told the GC not to have them kerfed and he would just butt up to the jamb. I can't figure how he's going to butt up if the door is not even with the framing. So should I hang the door with a good reveal and then smack the framing around so that it meets the door stop evenly, or should I smack the framing around and then hang the door? How much wiggle room does the drywall guy have?Thanks for all the help everyone!kh
You should smack framing first, before hanging any doors.The kerf-inserted bead is way superior to what your drywall guy wants to do. When I did a job with this style of jamb, I set the jambs with full shims all sides, then hung the doors after the drywall was finished.On advantage of the setup I did was that the drywall had a bullnose return to the jamb, and the jamb was the width of the stud. 2x4 studs in wall = 1x4 jambs.The kerf happens where the outer screws on the hinge fall, so it is best to hang the door after the bead has been inserted and stabilized. My doors were solid core flush, and they look great after 3 years of use. This is in a rental apartment.Bill
I'm with you Bill. Fixing the framing first makes the most sense. It sounds like the sheetrocker is trying to take the easy way out and simply float some mud to the edge of the jamb, which won't produce a reveal as crisp and even.
Trimless jambs seem like one of those things that either has to be done right from the framing onward or it really looks bad even after considerable effort.
Cut straight.
Went back to my friends place with all my newly aquired knowledge. Wound up hanging the hinge side plumb and flush, tacked with 2" nails, then setting it solidly with 3" screws through the hinges. Then took a 10lb. "persuader" to the strike side and tapped it until the door and stop met in holy union. Every now and then took a power planer and dressed up the trimmers.It all went well. Thanks again to everyone for the input.kh