I am interested in the pro/cons of using Azek vs wood. I am redoing the outside of my house, I have one contractor that is saying wood is great and every thing else is
, and the other is saying the new stuff is great.
Is this a religious argument (nobody is correct) or is there a general opinion that the new stuff is that much better?
I have search the forum, but I have not found it. If it is cover, could someone please send me the link.
Thanks
Replies
I've used a lot of Azek and while I like it for its longevity, I think you should be aware of its limitations.
Let's see: 1) Long pieces are floppy so you need more guys to hold it up when installing vs pine or cedar.
2) It's heavier than equivalent sized wood.
3) It expands and contracts in response to temperature change in width, length and thickness vs wood which primarily changes with humidity and primarily in width. This movement must be considered when joining pieces. Glue, vs caulk vs overlap etc. Also fasteners (nails vs screws) must take this movement into consideration. My opinion here is either allow it to move or fasten down real well to try to get it to move minimally.
4) A cut edge has a different surface than the factory edge and hence picks up dust and dirt more than the factory edge and so sometimes it's best to paint the whole thing anyway. Paint should last a long time and does look very nice.
5) It's expensive vs wood but then again maybe not especially when you consider the long term maintenance cost.
I can't think of anything else. I'm sure others can. After reading this it sounds like I'm down on the stuff, which is not the case. I'm sure we'll use more and more of the stuff.
I've got to agree with fingers. Where I like it most is where there are tons of short pieces - like trimming a heavily molded octagon or bay - nice to be able to adjust fir with a utility knife, and the glue is great.
Big spans, big cornices, I like the stability of wood, and always use CYP (clear yellow pine; easy to get here).
I mean, as an old-house geek, I love wood, but sometimes Azek is better.
Forrest - come to think of it, no Azek on my personal house here. Lots of Hardi on the outbuildings - it's great for that
It might very well be a Ford vs Chevy thing.
I came from Michigan where we never used any of the manufactured trim such as hardi or azek. We used "real" wood.
I'm now in TX and I see very little real wood. They use almost all hardi trim.
Maintenance issues aside, the hardi trim looks no better than aluminum siding, aluminum trim or vinyl. It doesn't look like anything I'd want on my house. So, I suppose that it's a matter of personal taste and choice.
I'm not one who believes that wood is a bad choice as an exterior trim material. All exterior materials have to be sealed and maintained. If you paint wood correctly and paint it regularly, it will last longer than you and your grandkids. Thats good enough for me.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
depends on how you want to spend your time / money- wood rots warps twists swells pops gets eaten pushes paint off bends etc etc etc
It suzz as an exterior material, unless you are in that business
then its great as you get paid to redo it and redo it and redo it
Edward, I think you are exaggerating quite a bit.
I think I can safely say that every piece of trim that I have installed in my entire career is still hanging, unless the homeowners didn't paint it. If it's nailed properly and painted, it will last for at least a couple hundred years.
Bugs can eat it, but bugs can eat studs, plates and trusses. Do you use cement studs and plates and trusses?
It's my personal taste, but I hate the looks of the fake grain on the hardi materials and I especially hate the cheesy H clips that they slip inbetween the joints. The cornice systems look hideous in my opinion as compared to the real wood systems that I've been exposed to for the last 53 years. I admit it's a ford and chevy thing, but I ain't drinkin the coolaid when you try to tell me that wood is an inferior exterior trim product and that it won't hold up. If you don't believe me go look at some of the well maintained victorians. There ain't a stick of cement trim on em and they look grand to me.fka (formerly known as) blue
Question of a lot of time and a lot of money
I dunno about that. About all the trim on my 62 year old house is gone except for the corner boards which may not even be original. I had to do some extensive restoration on them, but they are old growth wih incredibly small growth rings. Most of the trim I replaced some years ago with fingerjointed stuff has rotted and (or) fell apart, and since has been replaced with pvc. The redwood siding on the 1965 garage is still like new, but the house siding has been replaced twice now. It's hardiplanks, was masonite which turned from siding to crumbs and fungus infected mulch in 15 years. Hopefully it will last till I'm gone.
Was all the trim and siding kept up with a good coat of paint and caulked properly?
If not, then don't blame the wood, blame the owners for deferring maintenance.
fka (formerly known as) blue
Amatuana was asking about Azek vs Wood, and my comments were concerning Azek, not Hardy or any others. I think if Azek is used as trim in an appropriate way and finished well, anyone would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it and real wood that's been painted.
I am not an expert by any means, but having had LP masonite in the past, am very particular when looking at exterior finishes. Thought hardiplank was the best thing since sliced bread, but saw a 5 year old house owner said had hardiplank, but was crumbling and rotting as if masonite. I think the most important aspect of choosing any cement siding product is the expertise of the installer. IF the manufacturers instructions are followed, IF the correct tools are used for cutting material and IF joints are installed correctly(supposed to leave a small gap, which is CAULKED!!!), should be fine. In the above case, the installer didn't use correct blade for cutting, butted bare end joint(read didn't even prime!), then was very miserly about applying caulk-hey, if the ends are abutting, no room for caulk!
amatuana
Caution, the following is strictly the opinion of an old codger and is worth exactly what you have to pay for it..
Wood has a realness that no substitute will ever satisfactory replace.. OK so paint lasts longer on this and Hardie plank.. nobody will ever mistake the two. it's the same for aluminum siding, for vinyl and every other siding that gains favor and is eventually replaced with something..
They all try very hard to look like the real thing and fail..
"nobody will ever mistake the two"Hardie corner borders, water table, etc. when painted, looks exactly the same as wood, maybe even better since you can glue the pieces to make a welded joint. If you want to bad mouth aluminum siding, vinyl siding, etc. that fine since you can see the difference from 50 feet or more. A 1x6 piece of Azek vs 1x6 wood, whats the difference? "Wood has a realness that no substitute will ever satisfactory replace.. OK so paint lasts longer on this and Hardie plank.. nobody will ever mistake the two. it's the same for aluminum siding, for vinyl and every other siding that gains favor and is eventually replaced with something.."The realness of would really doesn't matter much if its covered by paint. If you want to say clear finished wood, granite counters, etc. have character I'll agree. If wood exterior trim had no problems, people would not seek substitutes. Wood has many problems, thats why people look for other materials. Azek is about $1 more per foot and there are some expansion you need to deal with, otherwise it will last forever with basically no worry. Installing is a bit more of a chore but nothing too bad.
DDay
You know people have been saying that about replacements for wood for a very long time.. They gain favor and yet we're still using wood? Why?
You pointed out some of the faults with wood. Price isn't the reason people use wood. Personally I don't like wood clapboard siding. But up scale homes wind up with real wood while tract homes and homes in modest neighborhoods tend to wind up with Vinyl siding, aluminum siding, and Hardie Plank..
Not true- lots of upscale homes and upscale builders use hardie siding, its sold as a very nice looking, maintenance free exterior.
8 inch wide cypress imprint Hardie lap siding is very pretty. And you do not have to paint and repaint and repaint like wood
edwardh1
I suspect your definition of upscale differs seriously from mine.
In any case we are speaking about opinion here I believe. I am constantly amazed at the opinons of people. It doesn't seem to matter about income. I've meet some people of extremely modest incomes who have wonderful taste and judgement. While some extremly wealthy people put giant twin statue of liberty painted dark green on either side of their driveway.
Upscale in this area is $5,000,000+ and they don't use wood, they use brick or stone. You cannot include hardie with aluminum or vinyl, its right there with wood.
>>The realness of would really doesn't matter much if its covered by paint.<<
Absolutely correct.
Dirty little secret - I install a fair amount of Azek trim on historical homes, circa 1790's, owned by a foundation - once it is painted, only the curator, painter and myself know which is which.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I see the push for wood (used on the exterior) as a self serving issue- many of the people who support it the most will benefit when it is installed, painted, maintained, repainted, ripped out, reinstalled, repainted, etc etc etc.
they support wood since thats where they make money
edwardh1
Phew, differant thing here. It's the women who decided that anything other than wood/stone/brick is too cheap to be considered.. Frankly nothing tends to be good enough(except their own house of course) big old <Grin>
I just found out this is the fouth most expensive community in the country according to the tax assesor. Perhaps that's what has affected my coments thus far..
From your profile, I see you are in MN. If that is the community you are talking about, I guarantee, you would not even be the 4th most expensive in southwestern CT or the north and northwestern areas of Los Angeles. The town next to mine in MA, Weston, has a median house value over $1.2 million and there are places in florida like star island that are close to 10 times that number, ditto with areas in the hamptons.
dday,
I haven't done any research on it but if you go to the zip code 55391 what you find might amaze you.
Ed, I don't think that the paint companys warrant their paint differently for different products. A 10 year paint is probably good for 5 years and it doesn't discriminate against wood or hardi.
If the homeowners intend to neglect the routine maintenace, then perhaps synthetics are better.
fka (formerly known as) blue
its the twisting popping oozing etc and water migration of the wood that ruins a lot of paint
Ed, you are right. Thats why I'm particular about the nailing patterns on all the wood products we install. In most situations, wood will perform admirably if installed correctly and maintained properly.
I can understand where the Azek proponents like the product if they don't intend to maintain it, but I guess I just prefer the true character of real wood. They can try to emulate it, but they really don't capture it much better than vinyl does.
I"m not buying into the advertising campaign but I also don't object to anyone using it. I don't mind vinyl siding and if I was inclined to use a faux product, I think I'd just go all the way with "maintenance free". I've lived in several houses and they all had some form of "poor man's wood" and never once felt like I was missing out on something.
Now...if I could only afford gold leaf...
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
Azek v wood
For use in planting boxes for vegetables, does anyone have knowledge of the safety issue -- does Azek leach anything toxic or questionable into the soil? I want to avoid the situation that developed years ago with pressure treated wood that leaches poison into the soil, and makes growing fruit or vegetables unwise. Thanks.
Contact Azek...
It's essentially foam core pvc (as pipe)
Here is a picture of my place. I replaced my rotted wood trim with azek. In the picture, the corner trim and decorative piece is azek, the rake trim is wood, and the siding is cedar. This is at a couple years old. I used the cortex screws w/ plugs and OSI caulk. With temperature swings from ~10-100 degrees F, I’ve noticed no movement with mine. Caulk still looks great and the spot where it meets wood hasn’t changed. When painted it also looks no different from wood.
Wood is fine if detailed correctly, but when the products look no different, I’m not sure why anyone would choose wood trim over pvc, boral, or hardie. PVC will not need paint nearly as often as wood, it will never rot, will always look new, and can mill just like wood. This is all coming from someone who is more of a purist with these materials. With lap siding, I don’t think I could ever deviate from wood.
my quick 2 cents - no one is mentioning Boral - a fly ash synthetic product
I've used various woods for exterior trim - some last, some rot - depends on the species of wood and even then, if you get a "good " piece
Azek/pvc- looks good and doesn't rot, but the installation details are important as it does "shrink and stretch " so you need to use scarf joints and caulk
Hardi-siding was easy install and paint, and from the ground looks good (it's on a 3rd floor addition , so probably 25-30 ft from where any one stands to look) - just dusty to cut (mask and goggles when cutting)
I've only done one project with Boral but it cuts well, looks good, takes paint easily and is stable in the installation
seems to me any of the material mentioned works - mostly a personal choice and probably a money issue
good luck