I have a client who has hardwood flooring in her dining room and hallway (both adjoining the kitchen which currently has linoleum). We are considering hardwood for the new kitchen, particularly since the carpeting on the stairs next to the kitchen (currently carpeted) are likely to be removed and replaced with hardwood). She and her husband are resistant to the hardwood in the kitchen because of maintenance and wear issues (3 small children). I have tried to get her over her concerns, but I have been unsuccessful thus far.
What are everyone’s thoughts on hardwood in the kitchen? BTW, the floor would be oak.
Many thanks.
Jocelyn
Replies
As a mother of three myself, I wouldn't want hardwood floors in my kitchen either. If you don't have kids yourself, you can't imagine the wear and tear they subject a house to, especially in the kitchen, especially when they become teenagers. Put something else down now, and plan on wood later.
"A completed home is a listed home."
I don't see hardwood as any less durable than any other material. If kids can ruin a hardwood floor, they can easily ruin a carpeted or ceramic floor. I think it depends more on whether one wears shoes in the house or not. We don't wear shoes inside the house in my house. As a result, our carpet sees more wear and tear than the vinyl or hardwood floors. My only concern with hardwood floors in a kitchen is the level of ease or difficulty in keeping it clean. Vinyl is great for this. I probably wouldn't go with a prefinished hardwood floor in a kitchen; at least not without giving it a complete coat of poly to seal up the cracks. My concern is getting food stuck in cracks between the boards and not being able to clean it. A floor finished onsite wouldn't have this issue.
While I very much like the look and feel of a hardwood kitchen floor, I must say that I concur with Lisa. Hardwood in a kitchen should be avoided when there are young children in the home.
My wife and I battled over this for months when planning our own renovation. Thankfully she defered to my experience on the matter.
It can be done, and is done on a regular basis.....but I advise against it strongly when my opinion is asked.
Screw Pete!
Gabe for Governor!
We had HW in our kitchen when my 4 kids were young - never a problem - we had them screened & refinished about every 3 yrs.
In our new house, we just tore out the vinyl in the kitchen and put in oak.
The biggest issue is grit, in my opinion, not spills. Getting the kids (correction - getting ME) to take off shoes before coming in will make the floors last forever.
We put bamboo just about everywhere, but I have resisted the kitchen, simply because I worry about the first time the dishwasher goes belly up.....call me crazy, but that would just ruin my day, not to mention the floor, yes? BeckRe-Home Solutions Inc.
Well, maybe it depends on the kids then. We have three sons, an acre, one large dog and various other pets. It's common to have 5 or 6 boys running (literally) around here. I have a hard enough time getting them to close the door after themselves - I can't imagine the time it would take to police getting all those shoes off and on and off and on. Half the time the shoes are left out by the trampoline or the pool or in the orchard anyway, and the grit comes in on bare feet. Plus we have five doors to the outside - the shoes would never be where you were going in or out! So lifestyle must be taken into account.I'm not so concerned about grit. You have to be willing to sweep a lot and refinish freqeuntly, as you did, but it can be dealt with. My concerns are roller blades and skateboards, furniture being dragged to make a fort, skidding dog toenails ("I'll get that cat someday!"), and the like. Also, since we encourage our boys to cook we have lots of spills, and I'm not always right there to police the clean-up.No floor is perfect. Tile is waterproof and scratch resistant. It's also hard and can crack from impact. Vinyl is easiest to clean, impact proof, susecptible to dents and rips, and easiest to replace. Wood we have discussed. Like anything else - pick your poison. The homeowner should have a large say as they know their lifestyle best."A completed home is a listed home."
Edited 6/9/2005 12:48 pm ET by Lisa L
Lisa - I'm worn out just listening to the description of your boys! I agree, it's a personal decision, and I'm not trying to impose my view. In our last house, the kitchen wasn't in a main traffic flow - there wasn't any reason for the kids to run through it. In our new house it is, which is why we are trying the 'no-shoes' rule. And our youngest is 16, so it's a lot easier to enforce.
For those who mentioned the dischwasher leak - I agree, that could be catastrophic on a wood floor, but a)in 27 years of home ownership, I haven't had a leak in the kitchen (yet - knock on wood), and b) I think if I did I'd notice it pretty quickly (vs a leak in the basement for example, which you might not see for days).
We don't have kids, so I can't respond to that issue, but I can say that we are going to pull up the vinyl in our kitchen and get the hardwood floors back. I don't think even a dishwasher flooding is much of an issue for the floor. At least in our case, the water will run down into the basement. We're not talking plywood here.
I agree about grit being the real enemy. Screening and recoating every 3 or 4 years sounds like an easy way to go. I know one builder I talked to said they are getting more and more requests for hardwood in kitchens.
Ceramic tiles and stones turn out to be too hard on the feet and legs as we get older. Wood has more give in it and is reasonably comfortable to stand on, and there is a lot of standing in a kitchen.
Real linoleum is also making a comeback. Great design possibilities using CNC machines. Marmalinoleum is one brand that a number of people have been happy with, but I'm probably mis-spelling the name.
My kitchen has hardwood floors. I resisted for the reasons listed, but so far, it's been fine. We used Glitsa for the finish and I attribute much of the success to that. We have a big dog (145 lbs) and he can't scratch it. This is the second house where I've used Glitsa and I love it.
A catastrophic dishwasher failure would produce big problems for a T & G oak floor. That much water and caustic dishwasher detergent would almost certainly produce buckling and staining if it got between the flooring and subfloor.
We have the original 120 year old oak floors throughout our house, maple in the Kitchen. Floors have been refinished a few times, but they still look great.
I find it hard to believe when people question the durability of Hardwood floors.
Mike K
Amateur Home Remodeler in Aurora, Illinois
"She and her husband are resistant to the hardwood in the kitchen because of maintenance and wear issues (3 small children). I have tried to get her over her concerns, but I have been unsuccessful thus far."
Simple give them a 20 yr UNCONDITIONAL guarantee. UNCONDITIONAL means exactly that.
Are you willing to do that?
The first time that something is dropped and dents the floor it will be YOUR fault for talking them into using a product that they dont' think is appropraite.
I think the comment earlier "pick your poison" is right, but getting the client to agree that *they* picked the poison could be difficult. Can't say that I am anxious to give them a 20-year unconditional guarantee on something that I can't directly control.
Thanks.
Jocelyn
" Can't say that I am anxious to give them a 20-year unconditional guarantee on something that I can't directly control."That is the point."I think the comment earlier "pick your poison" is right, but getting the client to agree that *they* picked the poison could be difficult."I was under the impression that they already wanted vinyl, but going back and reading it that is just what they currently have.I got the impression that you where "pushing" them towards wood and that is what I was warning against.I would print out all the replies (except mine) along with comparisons of other flooring products and prices.Put it as neutral as you can.
who gives a 20 year, unconditional guarentte for anything around here (or in life for that matter)? I think that is an absurd answer to try justfy your point.
Would you give a 20 year, unconditional guarantee for anything?
I've had both...hardwood and linoleum. I prefer wood for reasons previously stated. linoleum, or any other product, has the potential for wear, scratches and dents just as much as wood. At least wood can be refinished and will always be current.
Just my opinion.
Nap
I have hardwood floors and a 3 and 4 year old, both succeeded 2 BIG dogs. Not a problem. To put down something temporarily until the kids are older is crazy. Just screen and recoat at that time
BTW last month I had a big leak under the sink. I did'n t know about it until I found water in the basement hours later. Within a couple of days the floor curled slightly. You could feel it under your bare feet. A couple of weeks later it has returned to normal
I have pine floors in my kitchen with a 10' oriental rug runner in front of the sink, stove and work area. I love it. I have an oak floor in my master bath. I love it too. I don't have kids but, I don't baby either floor. My only problem is just what was stated earlier. They want linoleum. If that wood becomes warped or turns black from water getting under the finish sometime in their lifetime. You're the bad guy. If you do what they want. You're the good guy, period.
Actually they have linoleum now. We are looking at alternatives like hardwood (or slate or porcelain tile). The advantage of the hardwood (from an aesthetic point of view) is the continuity with the other rooms. She won't put rugs down because the kids can trip on them.
Jocelyn
I agree with Lisa. You, as the builder, can make a suggestion. That's it. Then give them what they want. Their paying the bills. I have had builders working for me on my apartments that didn't understand this. I never used them again. Nor would I recommend them to someone else.
One thing I don't understand: if the client knows what they want, and there is no obvious functional reason why it won't work, why would you (or any designer or builder) try to persuade them otherwise? I have had the same conversations with designers and builders on my own homes and I don't get it. It's the client's house...
"A completed home is a listed home."
She doesn't know what she wants. We are looking at different options, and I suggested the hardwood to keep the continuity between the hallway/kitchen/dining room. They are ripping up the existing linoleum when we re-do the kitchen.
Jocelyn
P.S. I feel that part of my job as a designer is to raise the flag on whatever issues there may be associated with a given material. For example, if a client "must have" marble (or any other porous material) for her kitchen countertop, I feel that I must let her know what she is getting herself into. Then, if she still wants to go ahead, I've done my job. In this case, I haven't met this kind of resistance to hardwood from clients before, so I thought I would see what people had experienced.
OK, if they don't know what they want then I can understand you making suggestions.Our house had (I think) 8 different floor coverings in different places when we bought it. One major goal has been to coordinate the floors throughout, but we've never been interested in making everything match. Too "perfect" for our style. In three rooms there are brick floors and we couldn't match the brick (3" x 11") anyway. So in the adjoining rooms I had saltillo stained a brick color. I love it! It obviously isn't a "near miss", but both look like they've been there forever and they blend beautifully. Maybe a different material than wood in the same color tone would blend well in your clients house?"A completed home is a listed home."
We were originally thinking of slate or cork. Continuing the hardwood only came up because they now may move the staircase and take out its carpeting and put hardwood. With all that extra hardwood, I suggested they continue it into the kitchen. I may give up and go back to the slate, which she liked.
Jocelyn
I agree 100%! I never try to forcefeed a customer unless there are code or safety issues involves.
Case in point: Just finishing a custom; customer insisted on Mexican travertine tile in a large shower. The stuff is soft and porous and crumbly and brittle before thinsetting in place; travertine tends to have a lot of voids which are filled by the supplier. In our case, the filler has some pigment in it that pulled to the surface when we sealed the tile. My tile guy forwarned the client about that potential, along with the risk of soft tile in a shower.
She was adament and signed a waver.
The stuff was done expertly and looks great.....but in a few years, who knows.
I've had hardwood in five kitchens now, and I wouldn't settle for anything else. Do they wear faster? Yes. Do dropped pots and glasses mark them up? Yes again. But their appearance and comfort on the feet more than make up for it. The oldest of our houses had maple flooring, which restored beautifully. Go for it.
I have owned two houses both with oak floors in the kitchen.
First house was built in 1929 with oak floors throughout the first floor, previous owner had covered the oak in the kitchen with "modern" linoleum in the 60's. We tore out the linoleum, replaced a few boards and had the floors sanded and refinished professionally -- sold the house 10 years later with the floors still looking great ( house occupied by 2 adults and 2 cats).
Bought second home (have a child at this point) -- tore out the "modern" vinyl and the particle board underlayment, installed unfinished oak, professionally sanded and finished. That was 11 years ago, floor is showing some wear in the area around the table, mostly from chair legs. Will sand and refinish at some point -- I do not think this is bad performance, we wear shoes in the house.
Possibly noteworthy observation: We rent a beach house every year, it has bamboo flooring in the kitchen / dining area, installed three years ago. This flooring is looking great after two rental seasons -- house is right on the beach, infested with sandy children.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Thanks for this. I think the earlier points are right, though. I shouldn't convince them to use any material that they aren't comfortable with. I won't hear the end of it if they are unhappy.
Jocelyn