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Has any1 milled their own hardwood floor

Jcpilot | Posted in General Discussion on February 24, 2006 08:28am

I have a crazy notion in my head of milling my own T&G flooring from quatersawn white oak. I can get it for $3.50 a bd ft up to 7 inches wide. I know this would take a long time to do but I have the time, tools  and the drive to do it. Has anyone tried this themselves? What about finishing? Whould anybody recommend finishing the underside of the flooring? I’ve wondered if that would equalize the amount of movement in the wood. Less prone to cupping. If you think about it they ony finish one side of the solid or laminated manufactured stuff? Is their a good reason for this? I’m planning this over hydronic radiant under subfloor. Any wisdom would be welcome.

John

Useless things in aviation. 1. Altitude above you. 2 Runway behind you. 3 Fuel in the fuel truck.

http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnclanton/

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  1. frenchy | Feb 24, 2006 09:24am | #1

    John,

      I have, In fact it's one of the reasons I'm building my own timberframe..

       First. 

      The underside only needs to be flat. The reason flooring is milled out on the bottom has nothing to do with cupping and everything to do with shipping weight.. The average Semi can carry about 15% more because of the milling and they can then use the sawdust to either sell or drive cogeneration boilers..

       Second.  You van make planks as wide as you want.. You just can't edge nail much beyond 4 inches wide and avoid cupping..

          There are several ways to put wider boards down and keep them flat.

     among them are face nailing (often using ornamental nails)  face screwing (and possibly coving the screw heads with plugs made from that same board)  or bottom screwing where you drill holes in the sub-flooring and screw up from below..

     

     I really don't recommend glue.. a board that wide will move too much for glue to hold..When it does come loose you'll have to put up with this anooying cracking sound as you walk over it..

         Trust me the work is really tremendous..  You won't save enough money to compensate yourself for all the work involved and you can't do it without certain equipment..

     Regarding the hydronic floor you'll need to give me more infomation..

        is this a floor where they poured concrete over the tubes? Or did you nail the tubing under the sub flooring?   how long since th fllor was done?

     how old is the rest of the house?

       

     

    1. Jcpilot | Feb 24, 2006 03:00pm | #2

      Frenchy,

           I thought of makeing a 3" wide T&G strips to account for waste but I could do random widths to get the best yield and I'm not opposed to face screwing and plugging. My flooring would be nailed to an osb or plywood subfloor . The radiant heat tubes will be under the subfloor inbetween the joists. This is the planning stages of  new construction. 2500sf ranch, full basement wood shop.  

      What species of wood did you use? What's your take on finishing the underside? What kind of finish did you use? How's it wearing? What certain equipment are you referring to? Got any pics?

      Thanks,

      JohnUseless things in aviation. 1. Altitude above you. 2 Runway behind you. 3 Fuel in the fuel truck.

      http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnclanton/

      1. cameraman | Feb 24, 2006 03:24pm | #5

        I would reccomend that you install floor first then install staple up tube. Don't risk a chance of a nail hitting the tube. If nails  stick out on the underside clip them and gring them down before installing pex. Do not use tar paper!!! Some tar paper will out gass at temps need to meet you heat load, nasty!!! Use the rosin paper.

        1. poetwithhammer | Feb 25, 2006 12:02am | #6

          allow the wood to aclimate in the room or in the house where it will be installed for as long as possible.... something fun to walk over. Sticker it....stack it on strips to allow for air to circulate between it... some woods are good for stickering... some leave a stain... I'm not sure which... those old cut nails might be cool to use. there's some info on this process under an old question I posed a while back under "wide pine flooring"... good luck.

      2. frenchy | Feb 25, 2006 04:41am | #8

        John,

           three inch wide will be easy to nail and much easier to put into place..

          (even the best wood will curve a bit and not lay perfcetly flat against each other.. the narrower the board the easier it is to flex it along side it's neighbor..)

            Do not consider putting a wood floor onto OSB, it just won't hold well.. 

           I found thAT WORKING WITH mILL RUN WOOD (RANDOM WIDTH BOARDS TO BE A LOT OF EXTRA WORK.. (oops)  Unless the run is less than the length of the board it takes a great deal of effort to organize wood into the various widths the sawmill will run off..  for example I recieved about  about six differant 18 inch widths from the sawmill.  .  Thus you need to standardize all wood to a given width..

           I use the table saw to shave the wood to one width and since I have as long as 19 foot long boards It's really tough to keep the edge straight.

          You simply cannot do this without a jointer..  the table saw simply won't be accurite enough.

               I Used as shaper to cut the tongue and groove in but in  a pinch you could use a router or possibly even use the table saw and just cut  groove in the edge and make splines..

           I laid everything down with out fastening it simply to ensure that everything would fit and work,  I also used brass strips to add a bit of interest in everything and then to prevent damage to the floor, I picked everything back up again..   Since I've got well over 3500 board feet of wood flooring I wanted to check everything but won't put it down for good untill the rest of the house is done.  no sense in risking damaging the flooring untill after all the heavy work is finished..

            Wood type,

          Ah well I am extremely lucky. I have 917 bd. ft. of really wonderful burl.  Like the dash board of a Rolls Royce.    I couldn't believe my luck in finding it..  It's used as an accent in a field of all white flawless hardmaple with an edging of brass around it.. It forms a picture frame in the center of the great room with 22 inch wide boards.

                Much of the flooring is this wonderful flawless white hard maple.. widths up to 22 inches and lengths to 19 feet. It will be bottom screwed to show off the wonderful flawless boards without the distraction of plugs..

         

        In the billard room, Master bedroom  and across the bridge I am using black walnut Because of the floor under most of it I will face screw and plug with black walnut where the plugs wil be cut from the boards so the grain and color match well. Care will be used to align the grain to minimise the appearance of the plugs..

              However in the tower I will be using a compass rose made from bloodwood and white hard maple using contrasting color plugs to make the points of the compass..

          All of those woods were selected for durable wear and stability. 

          Other woods I considered were things like Hickory and Ash..   In fact I provided my sister with 5/4 ash and she did her second story with that.  They also expect to do their stairs in the cherry I provided for them.. Now cherry is a bit soft for flooring but since they don't wear shoes indoors the chrry should hold up well.  (besides their grand piano at the foot of the stairs is Cherry and it's a natural)..

            Their living room is done with Salvaged fir, old growth stuff that sunk to the bottom of lake superior and was recently recovered by divers..

          NOrmally fir is too soft for my tastes in flooring but since it's old growth stuff with extremely tight growth rings and aged for a century it should not only be durabale but an interesting conversation piece as well.

           I don't believe is sealing the wood on the bottom in flooring..  I watch the pros who do it all of the time and never do so I don't believe it will do anything. 

          I want to use shellac. I love the ease that can be repaired and the wonderful patina shellac developes over time.. Nah it's not the toughest finish out there but I have a big newfundland and I know that sooner or later his claws wiil scratch the flooring.. if it's as easy to repair as shellac is I can "fix' it several times a year with no real hassle!

          All you need to do is rub alcohol on it and it is repaired!

                 Now talk to me about what sort of equipment you have and how you are planning on taking it from rough green wood to finished boards..

         

            

         

           

         

        1. Danusan11 | Feb 25, 2006 11:10pm | #14

          Just curious, You laid down 3500 sq.ft. to see if it would fit? And then pulled it back up. I must be reading this wrong, inquiring minds need to know.

          1. frenchy | Feb 27, 2006 06:35pm | #22

            Dansusan,

              Well,   I milled and laid down the billard room and the bridge to ensure things would fit and work.. the billard room is roughly 16x16 and the bridge is 8x22.    I left the billard room in place and picked up the bridge..

              Then I milled enough for the hallways and stairs on the second floor and stacked it layer by layer in the billard room.. The billard room floor is now 4 layers deep.  It sure squeeks  groans a lot as my daughter walks on it (it's also her bedroom for right now untill the lake side is finished))  also stacked in her room is a thousand bd. ft. of Fiddleback maple and the flooring for the master bedroom.   The maple and burl isn't done yet since I can't bring myself to trim off the two inches of wood. Yes she hates it, <G>

             I left the billard room in place thru a whole heating season to ensure the wood would neither buckle or open up too much.  The gaps between boards are nothing during the high moisture periods in the middle of the summer and around  an  1/8 inch in the dryist part of the winter. The black walnut tends to be more narrow boards, (wider boards were used outside as trim)  So there aren't many boards wider than 6 inches..

             

    2. weekendbuilder | Feb 25, 2006 12:17am | #7

      Frenchy,

      We too built a timber frame and are putting our own milled would in. We have a radiant heat floor with the pex in cement between the cleats.  Any advice?  Some have said to nail, not staple the floor to allow for expansion...

      thanks

      1. frenchy | Feb 25, 2006 04:59am | #9

        Weekend builder,

          Well with a timberframe some of the fear actually goes out of a wood floor..

               Wood swells and shrinks depending on moisture..  If the timber frame is made with the same wood as the flooring you only need to make modest allowances for that swelling and shrinking.. if on the other hand it's done over plywood flooring you need to carefully recaluclate everything to deal with the fact that plywood won't sewll or shrink at the same rate as timbers do..

         What sort of wood will you use for your flooring?  Commercially milled flooring purchased in about 2 1/4 inch strips?  Let a pro do it and don't worry..

          if you install  it follow the advice of the company selling you the flooring. (to keep your warrantee in effect) 

              The Fun happens if you decide to go wide plank flooring.. It's a  marvilous look and in my humble opnion looks so superior to the Gym floor look of most wood

         If you use say douglass fir for your timbers and oak for your flooring you only need to adjust for the differance between the two woods.

          For example fir has a radial movement of .13 and a tangental movement of .22 compared to Oaks .15 & .31  that's for a 12 inch wide board with a moisture change of 7%  (pretty dramatic)..

            . If you read Fine wood workings article about drying wood you'll see the chart to use..

               In my case the swelling of the subflooring will eleiminate much of the movement that would normallly be neede to calculate.. I only am allowing a total of 1/2inch on each edge of the 22 wide great room with boards as wide as 22 inches..

         If that was over a plywood floor The movement  would be   measured  in   inches!

           

          

         

          

         

  2. Jer | Feb 24, 2006 03:04pm | #3

    Yes, I have milled my own flooring for small jobs.  It takes time, but if you have it, then by all means go for it.

    If you have wider planks then it is a good idea to cut some dado quarter inch kerfs down the back maybe a quarter of the way through the wood for seasonal movement.  Never glue like frenchy said.  In fact, flooring guys often would put in thin shims between the boards while laying the floor and then pull them out afterwards leaving room for movement.  Also, get a moisture meter and find out what the recommended moisture content should be.  Remember to let your wood sit in the room where it's being laid for several days (I let it go at least 2-3 weeks if I can),  after you milled it and before you install so that it acclimates.

    Good luck

    1. Jcpilot | Feb 24, 2006 03:19pm | #4

      Hi Jer,

           What kind of flooring did ya make? Finish? Finish the bottom? Got any pics? I have a moisture meter and intend on using it. I might make the interior doors along with the cabinets. I'm in the planning stages right now.

      Thanks,

      JohnUseless things in aviation. 1. Altitude above you. 2 Runway behind you. 3 Fuel in the fuel truck.

      http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnclanton/

  3. DavidxDoud | Feb 25, 2006 06:37am | #10

    I have the time, tools  and the drive to do it.

    you are sure? - accuracy across the many pieces of flooring is paramount - you have a shaper with power feed?

    here's a link to to a thread from a couple of years ago where I and another fellow took rough lumber and turned it into floors - walnut,  cherry,  and oak in different rooms - most rewarding - 28293.18 

     

     

     

     

    "there's enough for everyone"
    1. frenchy | Feb 25, 2006 06:12pm | #11

      David,

        I did much of mine without a power feed.  However to be fair I only cut a groove in it and use splines instead of the more normal tongue and groove..

         I did that because I felt with the wide boards I might need to have more spline than a normal tongue and groove provide. Long after I did the actual work I came across a site that spoke about allowing for expansion in timberframes..

      It lit a light bulb and then I did some careful calculations..

        To verify my theory  I stopped and look at several wood floors in timberframes.  and I was right.

        If you figure on wood expansion per the charts  across a 30 foot room you'd need to allow 9.3 inches for expansion from full dry to full moisture for say white oak..

        it's never done.  what does happen is that of you use say white oak over douglas fir is that there is an allowance given for the differance in the rate of expansion between say white oak and doug fir. and then adjust for the differance between radial and tangental expansion (If the strips are run across the direction of the subflooring., no adjust need be made if they run parralel to thesubflooring)..

        Thge only floors that showed any sign of cupping were those laid over concrete or plywood without any allowance for movement..

       At one home I'm really sorry I visited.  They'd been bragging about their timberframe and it's hardwood floors  and you could tell how proud they were of it..  I visited it in the middle of the summer and noticed the cupping right away. It was oak strip flooring laid over concrete with radiant heat inbedded in it..  the usual strips of wood to nail the flooring to.   Foolishly I asked about it and you could just see the change in expression in their face as they noticed it.   Now he's a lawyer and I know just as soon as the door was closed there would have been phone calls made with attending threats of lawsuits.. 

            

      1. DavidxDoud | Feb 25, 2006 06:41pm | #12

        ya - I've used the 'double groove/floating spline' in my own house - 2.5" thick plank floor - you see it on barn threshing floors -

        one advantage is that you don't lose any width on the floor boards which does save signifigantly across a good sized room -

        I'd be hesitant to tackle very much 3.5" strip t&g flooring without a power feed shaper or williams&hussey machine -

         

         

         "there's enough for everyone"

        1. frenchy | Feb 25, 2006 10:21pm | #13

          My main concern right now is the "need" for a new planner.. my boards are 22 inches wide and it seems like a crime to have to narrow them to get them thru the planner. 

            22 inches of beautiful burl and I need to trim off 2 inches because that's all that will fit in my planner?

            ARGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

                A 24 inch planner costs $3595.. from Grizzly and if I want the spiral blades of my currant one It's now $7895.00 plus a $2499.95 3 phase converter for a total of $10,394.95 (plus shipping) 

                Seems like an awfull lot of money to save two inches  <G>

          1. DavidxDoud | Feb 26, 2006 01:30am | #15

            bring those boards down here and I'll do 'em for $5K - and clean up the shavings -

            there is a pallet mill not far from me that has a 36" that I use on occasion for wide stuff - use your contacts in the wood industry and find someone with a 24-36" unit that will run those boards for a nominal fee - $10K seems too much for what you want -

             

             

             "there's enough for everyone"

          2. peteshlagor | Feb 26, 2006 07:36am | #16

            Rent a bigger one...

             

          3. VaTom | Feb 26, 2006 06:18pm | #17

            For burl you'd do better with a sander.  Not cheaper, better.  Pretty sure you know there are much cheaper alternatives to a $2500 phase converter.  Although, when you get into large conversion you need a large elec supply.

            I ended up generating 3 phase when I run my 12 (10+2) hp 24" planer + 5 hp chip blower.  Didn't bring enough amps into the building to also run a phase converter.  Bad planning, but then I didn't think I'd ever own a 42" sander either.

            When I lived city, there were a lot of wide belt sanders available for hourly hire.  Surely must be in your area.  It's amazing what one can do in an hour.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

          4. girlbuilder | Feb 27, 2006 03:00am | #18

            Why are you placing a wood floor over radiant heat?I've seen the damage and for all your efforts at milling on your own, I don't see how you are going to offset the laws of nature to any significant degree.I once thought of cutting my own trees and hewing them myself to build a log home. But then, I have to use my time to earn a buck and pay my bills and get by.

          5. VaTom | Feb 27, 2006 03:34am | #19

            Why are you placing a wood floor over radiant heat?

            Say what?  LOL  Not me.  We have no need of a heating (or cooling) system, radiant or other.  Must be you wanted to address someone else.

            I once thought of cutting my own trees and hewing them myself to build a log home. But then, I have to use my time to earn a buck and pay my bills and get by.

            This I'll address, if I understand your intent.  As a furniture maker, I was frequently asked why in the world I'd build my own house.  The common thought was that I'd do better financially by doing what I did best, stay in the shop, and hire out the house building.  Other than my difficulty finding anyone to do what I wanted, there isn't a straight dollar trade off.  Little thing called taxes.

            The only income worth considering is after tax.  If you are building your own house you don't have taxable income.  Depending on your tax rate, it's a considerable difference, even if you're less efficient.  Which may have little to do with hewing your own logs, but then I have little idea why anyone would want a log house anyway.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

          6. girlbuilder | Feb 27, 2006 04:00am | #20

            I thought I saw something about radiant heat. Guess that's what I get for scanning posts...As for my comment about building out of logs, well yes I was considering that when I was young, but I can't afford to now, whatever tax savings is there to consider, I don't have that luxury I am not there yet.I was only being facetious anyway, didn't think you'd really respond :)

          7. VaTom | Feb 27, 2006 04:24pm | #21

            I was only being facetious anyway, didn't think you'd really respond :)

             

            Wasn't lost on me.  You simply provided the soap box, I accepted.  And it tickled me to think about a heating system.  22º outside this am, 66º inside, no added heat.  On average, 1 month of my working life, every year, returned to me.

            Sorry to hear you're living so close to the line that you can't find luxury time.  Without getting too personal, maybe it's time to re-examine your priorities? 

            Something I learned a long time ago: if you devote a small amount of time on a steady basis to a project you want, after awhile it'll look like you actually accomplished something. 

            I was shocked in a recent thread to learn what standing seam roofs usually cost.  Didn't track my time on last yrs' 14 square copper and translucent panel roof over my lumber shed, but there's zero chance I would have paid for it after-tax.

            Yielding soapbox....PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

          8. girlbuilder | Feb 28, 2006 03:27am | #28

            Tom.I think I whine too much. I have just started a contracting biz, in about my year four, but it seems like much longer. I worked hard to build this from nothing and it is growing. I demand alot from myself and so does my partner in this venture demand of himself. I wouldn't do anything else. I love to work in the field, I love to deal with the customers, I love the planning and marketing. I don't know if I love the tax man though. I haven't reached my goals yet. Mind you, I had children young and had to raise them alone and that was my job until they matured. Taking risks was out of the question. Now I can and I love it to death, although sometimes I am tired and sometimes I am discouraged.As for the flooring, Frenchie, my teaching in 'nailin' school' and everything I've read screams not to put wood over radiant heat as it will surely cause the wood to expand and contract and buckle.And in fact, I recently saw this first hand with an individual who had a custom build in 2002, radiant heat with sanded and finished wide pine over it. It looks like waves over the ocean now. I guess they can sand it down and hope its done moving, but I dunno. I haven't lived long enough to know.As for heating systems, I absolutely agree that hot air is a very ineffecient way to heat. I like my old steam system here in my abode frankly although toasty floors under tile would be nice too and I have been told that hydronic radiant heat will often suffice for the whole system. That says a lot when people up here in New England tell me that.

          9. Jcpilot | Feb 28, 2006 06:43pm | #29

            Girlbuilder,

                 Way to go on chasing your passions and starting your own business. I bet it is stressful. I'm getting stressed out about building one house and it hasn't even left the drafting board yet. I'm the originator of this thread and wanted other peoples experiences in this scenario. My fiance and I are allergy sufferers and we both like the idea of radiant heat so allergens are not being blown around. To get the most out of radiant they suggest hard floor coverings which also reduces the allergens that would get trapped in carpeting. My thoughts to minimize expansion and contraction is to use quatersawn white oak no wider than 3 inches. Would finishing the underside of the flooring help reduce moisture passage? In furniture making they stress equalibrium? Why not in wood flooring? Do the manufacturers not finish the underside because it's cheaper or is there a better reason? Would it smell if I finished the underside and put it over radiant? I can get the the rough sawn stock at a little over $3 a bd ft. I couldn't touch milled and finished 3" wide quartersawn white oak for that price. The economics for me come down to my time and the finishing supplies. The remaining questions are how to do it correctly the first time. HAS ANYONE MILLED THEIR OWN FLOORING AND INSTALLED IT OVER RADIANT? HOW DID YOU DO IT AND WHAT HAPPENED?

            How wide was the pine flooring you saw? What were the water temps of the radiant system? Was a heat load done? Lots of windows in the house? High solar gain? How was the radiant installed? In slab? Gypcrete? Staple up? Warmboard? Outdoor reset? What was the moisture of the wood flooring at installation? Was the flooring acclimated? Was the space conditioned for a week prior to install? Was concrete poured anytime near the hardwood install? Plainsawn or quartersawn? Why did that system go bad? What can I learn from that mistake?

            I'm just a guy who loves to work with wood and work hard. I have learned a lot by reading these forums and am sure they will help me when I build my own. Thanks in advance for your help.

            Thanks,

            JohnUseless things in aviation. 1. Altitude above you. 2 Runway behind you. 3 Fuel in the fuel truck.

            http://mysite.verizon.net/respum0e/johnclanton/

          10. girlbuilder | Feb 28, 2006 10:08pm | #32

            Jc: Good luck on your house building adventure. I actually am going to see about getting up to that house mebbe next weekend to take some pics and maybe answer some of your questions, which are interesting ones. I am sure others here have some thoughts as well.I will also ask my partner who has 40+ years in carpentry and building and see what he says. He's onsite today. I am in the office today.

          11. girlbuilder | Mar 01, 2006 12:12am | #34

            Saw your site, Very good work!

          12. frenchy | Feb 28, 2006 07:31pm | #30

            girlbuilder,

                 actually I'm trying to build in some wavyness in the floor.  I fell in love with old houses ( except for their terrible inefficent energy systems)  I love the character of them.. I want squeeky floors which is why instead of plywood I used 2x's as subflooring..

              So far none of the stairs or floors creek or squeek as you walk across them but hopefully that will happen. 

              However since I visit thousands of new homes every year I can tell you that more and  more homes nail radiant tubing under them every year..

             I would suspect the home you looked at had a problem with the floor finisher, or a problem with  too green of wood or something else..

                Wood expands and contracts not by heat but by moisture (or lack of it)  Temp has little effect..

             (metal and concrete do however expand and contract a great deal based on temp..

          13. User avater
            johnnyd | Feb 28, 2006 09:55pm | #31

            You haven't read enough yet....if the wood is dry enough to safely put down over regular subfloor without gapping or cupping, then it will also be fine to put over radiant floor, PROVIDED, (and this is a big "provided") the heat loss of the structure is such that it can be comfortably heated with the floor never getting above 85°.

            Take a good heat loss calculation and a carefull install/control strategy to do this successfully, but it IS done all the time.

          14. girlbuilder | Feb 28, 2006 10:14pm | #33

            Johnny:I'll never read or know enough, I swear, I never will.Your offering for calculations and such and also considerations of moisture seem logical enough. Yes, you are right now that i think about it, wood contracts due to gain or loss in moisture, which of course can be helped along by heat, creating a drying effect. Like I told JC I will be going up to said house to look at their flooring again and ask some questions because now i'm really curious.

          15. frenchy | Feb 27, 2006 07:33pm | #25

            girlbuilder,

              Let me jump in here about do-it-yourselfing..

                 Here's the simple economics of it all.

              (I'm going to asume that we're talking about a $250,000 house, adjust to your budget)..

                 Every Contractor who spends time planning and organizing the contruction of your house is entitled to a profit for his efforts..actual profit varies tremendously but since I see countless fincial statements from contractors wh buy from me these numbers should reflect the real world.. Remember these numbers are an average!

                I know few who start out  trying to earn less than 15 to 20%      Thus on our house roughly $50,000 is "profit"  in addition every subcontractor also has that same 15 to 20% profit built in.  assume another $50,000. 

                   Now he needs to hire people   And while the cost of those people varies it's still going to average well over $20.00 an hour I feel safe to actually   use $30.00 an  Considering the various trades and such employed to do the work.

              On top of that they need their taxes paid and insurance provided  etc..

              you'd better add another 40% to the wages they are paid.. (OK here's where I'm talking about fincial short cuts and not actual cost estimating).  You might wonder if a general laborer gets these  kind of wages and the answer is no..but an electriacian    can earn much more and several other tradesmen bring the costs up as well. It's a quick and dirty estimate..

              You will have to pay for materials as well.  Again there are traditional sources such as building centers and lumberyards..

               You'll either pay around the same price as the contractor or maybe a tiny premium more.. Most of the reason places like that are used is because lumberyards provide the fincial bridge to contractors.. (any discount offered by the lumberyard isn't passed on to the homeowner but becomes part of the profit package for the contractor).

             Or you can do as I did and buy direct from the sawmill.

                   I paid less than 1/2 of what the same sized house would have cost me at the lumberyard, in addition I got Black walnut instead of pine, I got white oak instead of plywood I got cherry instead of "western white woods" and I got whatever sizes I   wanted..

                   In addition I was able to make "steals" on surplus lumber.  I bought my fiddle back Maple for 10 cents a bd. ft.  Yep!!!! a dime!

               I bought my Burl for 20 cents!!! yep!  stuff Rolls Royces slices into thin veneers I got great big beams of for only 20 cents a bd.ft. 

                 WhenI started this project I had never done anything other than minr repairs and remodeling (in fact in school the only time I took wood shop I flunked!)  big old F

                The estimate that made me search for a cheaper way is when the local timberbuilder told me that a 1/2 of a house done the way I wanted would easly be over a million dollars!

              I had less than $150,000 and about three years of part time labor in the street half.  In the Lake !/2 I've got well under $50,000 with most of the material purchased!

              My insurance adjuster wants to appraise the house for replacement purposes at $350.00 a sq. ft.  which puts it's value somewhere around 1.8 million dollars..

             A more normal home done by my sister and her husband appraised at well over a million dollars for 4 years of their part time efforts.. There house was built in the more tradional stick built methods and they contracted out for some work such as roofing, insulation,(foam) cabinets, etc. 

             They spent roughly $200,000 and four years of their part time efforts to achieve over $500,000 worth of equity..

                   The long and short of it is your sweat equity doesn't cost you anything,  you don't have to pay taxes or insurance or even a profit on it!

              Yes you can "blow" it but then you can also gain dramatically as well.

                 How hard would you work to net out $500,000 in four years of part time labor?

                (PS both my sister,    her husband myself and my wife all work full time jobs that take well over 40 hours a week) 

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

          16. frenchy | Feb 27, 2006 06:46pm | #23

            girlbuilder,

             why a wood floor over radiant heat?

                 You've obviously never enjoyed the comfort of radiant heat.

              It's so pleasant to have your feet warm and toasty.  that turning down the heat to save energy doesn't feel like a sacrafice..   My grandparents had radiant floor heat and after lunch we'd lay on the floor in the living room and feel nice and comfortable with the temp set at 67degrees.

                 As for the supposed hassle of heating a floor over heating the air (forced air furnace)  once the house gets to a given tempurature say (70 degrees) everything in it will be at that 70 degrees.. if you allow it too cool off to say 50 degrees there will be the same problem of expansion as a radiant floor has..

             In my humble opinion forced air is the most foolish way to heat.. Blowing air around the room is bound to give you chills, plus it creates more chance for dust to fly around and leaves your feet (the farthest part of your body from your heart cooler than other parts of your body.. In floor radiant heat warms the farthest extremety first making you fell warm and comfortable at a much lower temp then does forced air..

             

          17. User avater
            Pondfish | Feb 27, 2006 07:15pm | #24

            Use a thickness sander instead of a planar, you'll get less tear out with burl or other figured wood.  Wide sanders are also much cheaper than wide planers.

            If you do plane, consider lightly praying the cut side with water, wipe and let dry before plaing.  This will also reduce tear out.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

          18. frenchy | Feb 27, 2006 07:41pm | #26

            Pondfish!

             excellant idea, and one I've considered before!

               The reason I won't be able to use that idea is that burls tend to be very wavy!

             extremely wavy!

              You have this wood that has grain going every which way from lying flat to straight up!

              right now there is very nearly a 3/16ths differance between the thinest and the thickest part of the plank nd since they could be right next to each other  tht's a trmendous amount of wood to sand off!

              That's why I bought the priral cut blades for my planner,  they do an excellant job of shearing off woodinstead of tearing out.

             

          19. VaTom | Feb 27, 2006 09:15pm | #27

            You're grossly underestimating what a widebelt sander with an aggressive belt can do.  Try it.  You'll change your tune.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

  4. bikerstooge | Mar 03, 2006 05:22pm | #35

    I have milled my own floor from reclaimed American Chestnut.

    The biggest issue with reclaimed is trying to cull out the wood that will be good enough to use, hopefully this will not be a problem with your wood.

    The second most diificult issue I had with milling my own flooring was getting a straight edge on the boards. Again this may have been due to the use of reclaimed boards. The longer and wider the board the tougher it is to keep a straight edge. I had to make a jig on the floor for cutting a straight edge.

    So I will assume that you have reasonably sound lumber with a straight edge. The next issue I dealt with was getting an absolutely straight edge. For this I used a heavy duty router table with a powerfeed. The router table acted like a jointer. I think a powerfeed is a must, mine was purchased from Grizzly.

    Once your boards are of the same width and have a straight edge the tongue and groove milling can begin. I found this to be a relatively easy step in the process.

    On the lower tongue you want to recess it approximately 1/32". This will help with expansion issues and fitting the boards on install. I did cut grooves on the underside. I milled random width from 4 - 13". The grooves will help take some stress off the boards if they start to try to cup( or so I am told).

    I will be installing over radiant. The radiant I am using is pex tubing through extruded aluminum heat transfer plates from Radiant Engineering. I am not going to seal the underside of the boards. I will be using a moisture barrier.

    I can't stress this enough. Make sure a competent radiant design is performed on your house. If a system is designed properly(including a well insulated envelope)these days I see no reason why the floor should be negatively impacted. Temperatures in today's radiant systems are much lower than temps in radiant systems of years gone by.

    A very good website for radiant heat is http://www.heatinghelp.com. I have heard good things about Warmboard which you had mentioned.

    Unfortunately I have not installed the floor yet. It is acclimating.

    You have received a lot of good advice so far. Good luck in your project.

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