HATCHETS – drywall, roofing – what do yo
toolbear
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
HATCHETS – drywall, roofing – so, what do you hack?
Always wondered what you are supposed to hack with the hatchet end of the drywall and roofing hatchets. Neither came with a sharp end. Rather blunt, actually.
I can see splitting wood shingles and shakes with my roofer’s hatchet, but beyond that???
Drywall? I use knive, saw, rotozip. Am I missing something? Which is?
The ToolBear
“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.
Replies
some necessary trimming to fit.
wedge type leverage to pry it over.
makes you look like a bad ####.
maybe hung around from the lath days.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
It's a hold over from the old days.. before the squeeze bottle, you needed something to spread the condiments on yer sandwich.
I've been wondering that for years now, and never had the guts to ask...
For the roofing hatchets - they still have an adjustable guage pin - depth stop?
JT
My Estwing roofing hatchet has the pin for exposure gauge. It also has a blade for cutting, dare I quess, comp shingles. Gotta try it.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
some do
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
As an old drywall piece worker, the axe end was used to "trim in place" make it fit while holding the sheet in place when stuff was crooked or out of square. Can't afford to pick the sheet up twice.
Also used to jack sheet up when kicker wasn't handy.
Used as a rasp in a pinch.
Now a commercial framer/ rocker and the tool of choice is the one piece steel handle. Axe is used to bust up misplaced track, demo and all the above. When axe gets dull, sharpen it up with the side of the chop saw blade.
Oh yeah, as a screwdriver to change knife blade.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Drywall-- hatchet end marks rafter location on top plates just before you hang lid against wall. Mark floor where studs are before hanging bottom sheet.
Roofing-- I don't use the hatchet end except for the shingle gauge.
just my two centsI hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
@@ As an old drywall piece worker, the axe end was used to "trim in place" make it fit while holding the sheet in place when stuff was crooked or out of square. Can't afford to pick the sheet up twice.
Must take some hand/eye coordination.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I once watched a pro drywaller hang some stuff for a while on a H4H house.
He shoved a sheet of drywall up against the bottom half of a wall, then leaned the top of the sheet away a few inches. He sighted down behind the sheet to where the electrical outlets were, and marked the font of the sheet with the hatchet blade.
He hoisted the 12' sheet up into place (by himself) and tacked it with a couple of nails along the top edge. Then grabbed his rotozip and cut out the outlet holes where his hatched marks were.
But that's the only time I ever saw anyone use one.
I worked for several years as a roofer and, as a 56-year old remodeler, still shingle my own projects. I've used the same Estwing gauged roofing hammer for decades. I strike horizontal lines every 20 or 30 inches and use the gauge for the courses in between. The blade of the hammer, or hatchet if you'd like, also slips under shingles as they lay and thus helps to lift one shingle when I want to slide another under it. When I run the shingles in vertical courses, which I do most of the time, I lift the tab of the adjoining shingle on every other shingle I install. Finally, as a college student, I came home for Christmas break and went to work the next day shingling a roof for my father. It started to snow and I decided--at little too late as it turned out--to quit for the day. On the way off the roof, I slipped and was sliding off the roof. I slammed the blade of the hatchet right through the deck and held on. After stopping the slide I was able to very carefully crawl off the roof. So the hatchet serves as a last-ditch fall arrest system.
That you? Thought I recognized somebody.
View Image
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
Exactly the same principle! It was fortunate that I did not have to go to the eave of the roof to get off. There was a window a few feet away.
Tnx. for the input. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
the drywall hatchet was originally designed for plasterers. before they could plaster, they had to cover studs with thin strips of wood, and they'd chop them to size, qhich was quicker than cutting htem with a saw. the design just stuck once drywall replaced plaster.
So the design is a hold over from the days of actual lath and plaster, eh?The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I once asked some rockers if they ever used their hachets, and their leader said "oh yeah, but if you must chop..." and his crew chimed in "...chop carefully !"
I've removed lath and plaster from a number of older homes and usually found the ends of cut lath pieces to have been chopped off, not cut with a saw.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Roofer's hatcheet
Use the blade to shave cedars oe split them
Open the steel banding on bundles
lay on side to lift flap of shingle to undernail a composition shingle withstagger coursing
Drywaller's hatchet
Not sure, but I assume it is an evolution from a lather's hatchet where it was needed to cut lathe
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I suppose there is still a lot of lath Back East. Here on the Left Coast, my condo was done in plaster over button board. Circa '62
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I still use a drywall hatchet when hanging. The hammer head is rounded and dimples the nail nicely for taping. Nails are used to quickly install wall boards. The first sheet on a wall gets pushed tight to the ceiling. You position it on the floor and start a nail at each stud, lift the sheet and drive the nails. The rest of the sheet gets screwed.
The hatchet end is used to clean up a cut. The boards don't snap cleanly every time. There is often a small area that will leave a chunk or so. Pushing down on the head of the blade quickly cleans up the edge, saving your knife blade. The hatchet blade doesn't need to be sharp. The hatchet end can also be slid along the board to pull a nail. You use the edge to slide under the head of the nail. There is a small nail pulling notch to use after you can get hold of the nail.
In the old days, we would use a shingling hatchet when installing rafters. With stick built joists and rafters, the tip of the joist can stick above the top of the rafter. When electricity was not on the site, we would use the hatchets to drive the nails and trim off the tips of the joists. The hatchets are also good for doing form work, sharpening stakes, spitting a bulkhead and driving nails. They can be used for shingling but primarily for the thick hand spit style shingles/shakes. The thin, sawn shingles, that are more common, are too wimpy for fitting with a hatchet.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Toolbear, I'm way too young to fully realize the history of the roofing hatchet, but here's my take:
The roofer that taught me showed me that a hatchet is not only useful for popping the seal tab of an asphalt shingle, but for pulling the roofing nails as well (as in a patch job). Just stick the corner of the blade under the nail head, hit the head a few times with the ball of your hand, and lever the handle to pop the nail free.
It works as well or better than a flat (pry) bar, with less damage to the shingles. Not to mention if you're leapfroggin' up a 14/12 on old foam pads you don't wanna be carrying any extra tools LOL.Jason Pharez Construction
Framing Contractor
@@ Just stick the corner of the blade under the nail head, hit the head a few times with the ball of your hand, and lever the handle to pop the nail free.
Neat trick. Been using the flat bar. Will have to try this the next time the Bee Guy leaves a 24x14 hole in the roof, carefully covered over with an entire trash bag and secured with at least twelve staples. They wonder why they are taking water.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Two other uses for the shingling hatchet that I employ would be first -when asphalt shingling and nailing by hand on an old board deck using the blade of the hatchet to slide between shingles that are just starting to stick together.You might leave a partial bundle open at coffee break or pit stop and return to find the top few courses starting to seal in the bundle-just slide the blade between the top two shingles and its free with no damage.
The next use comes into play when removing old metal work such as built in gutters,valleys,crickets,etc.
These items are sometimes overnailed,overlapped,rivetted,soldered and difficult to remove at times.I use the blade end to chop thru spots that are tough to remove and make smaller sections that are easier to get a pry bar under to remove.
Hey, after drilling 50+ holes in concrete last Wednesday, the only feeling I have in my hand is the pain of all those blisters LOL!Jason Pharez Construction
Framing Contractor
I watched our Latino guys tear off a standing seam on our current job. They start at the rake and roll up the pans and smash em as they go ( jumping on them, nails and all). When this roll is about all they can handle, they take a Tobacco or Corn knife ( a hunk of old handsaw blade about 4'' wide set into a hickory handle, with a steel backstrap) and whack down the length of the roll to sever it from the roof.
A heave ho and down it goes. Keep on rolling and smashing and chopping. Two guys had a helluva lot of roof off in no time. Then two carry it to the dumpster like a log on their shoulders.
I love working with these guys it is comical riot.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
tagline comments are temporarily suspended due to Percostte
"... hit the head a few times with the ball of your hand..."
Who was it here on BT that said:
"Your hand is NOT a hammer"
I remember the quote, but don't remember the reasoning behind it.
If you can remain calm, you just don't have all the facts.
I started a thread with that title a few years ago. And it's very true. The reason has already been given. I want to add to what has been said. I used my hands for hammers for years and now they are shot. Winter is a b@@ch because of the arthritis it has caused. Don't get me wrong I'm not crippled but They should be in a lot better shape.
Pardon my fat fingers.
I knew I rememberes a thread - I just couln't remember any details. And that thread was the first I'd heard of it in my lifetime. But that's the great thing about this place - We can all learn things we otherwise would never have known.
A friend of mine confused her valium with her birth control pills. She had 14 kids, but she doesn't really care.
You got that right. A great place to learn. And laugh.
Pardon my fat fingers.
I suspect that the DW hatchet is a hold-over from the rock-lath days. If you've ever seen rock-lathers at work, they never actually cut anything -- always hack.
I think that Mudsling, Piffin and Jason Pharez covered the roofing hatchet quite nicely.
The other things mentioned can be done with a hammer.
In regards to Boss Hog's last comment though, if by “ball,†Jason meant palm, I would suggest using the bottom of your fist. There’s a sensitive nerve at the center of your palm, and using it to beat on things can cause you to lose feeling in your hand. I don’t know who said your hand in NOT a hammer, but that’s why I never use the palm of my hand that way.
As for the drywall hatchet, Bullrider, Piffin and DanH are correct. It was originally a lathers hatchet. Lathers would chop lath to fit. I’ve personally hung quite a bit of drywall. Nowadays, it’s primarily used for nails. The hatchet’s face nicely dimples the drywall for finishing. The hatchet end is primarily used for prying sheets in place when there a little to snug. I personally find it easier to remove misplaced track with a hammer, and even easier with the power actuated tool it was fastened with. (Place the barrel over the pin that was previously shot, and fire. You don’t have a pin loaded this time, and the tool will pop the pin it’s aimed at loose.) I think that trimming is easier (and also cleaner) with a utility knife, as per the sharper blade. I also think that a pencil is easier to use for marking. In my humble opinion, they’re poor nail pullers. If you use a hatchet instead of a hammer, be sure to carry end nippers.
Thanks to hammer1 for explaining the framing hatchet. Trimming joists hugh? Makes sense.
-T
Edited 4/22/2006 11:36 pm by JourneymanCarpenterT
Have you ever seen Norm Abram use his hand for a hammer? I have many times and want to cringe every time.
"Have you ever seen Norm Abram use his hand for a hammer? I have many times and want to cringe every time."
Why?
I remember reading the explanation here on BT once, but don't remember the details...
I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.
It can cause compression of the median nerve, resulting in carpal tunnel syndrome. This is caused by using the heel or palm of the hand as a hammer.
Thanks for the explanation. That's exactly what I was looking for. After 45 years of using my hand as a hammer, it's probably too late for me. But maybe some of the younger guys out there will pay attention...
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak lit a fire in the bottom of their kayak to keep warm.
It sank, proving once and for all that you can't have your kayak and heat it too.
I've been using my head for a hammer about as long.
Read the whole thread and not a mention of a rigging axe.
Surely I'm not the only one here who started framing with a rig axe?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
RIGGING AXE
I've only seen them in picture books, but Larry Haun had a very informative article in FHB about framing in the San Fernando Valley in the '50s, axes and all.
Axe? It's really more a hatchet, isn't it?The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
You might say so, but to my thinking a riggin' axe is more closely related to a real axe than to a shingle hatchet.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I agree. Riggers axe has a pike on one end IIRC, like a firemans axe.
I still remember the day in Perryville Ky , that OAK shake roof I did, I used my half hatchett which was sharpened single bevel and way too sharp. I had it in my loop as I scooched down the roof after a new foam pad, and sliced the ball of my thumb open like a fish.
7 stitches.
Left a pretty scar...only did 2 wood roofs since then, but even tho I own a Vaughn shingle hatchett, I still use the half hatchett, I just like the critter too much.
I've not used the depth gage on a roofing hatchett either, I keep losing them.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
tagline comments are temporarily suspended due to Percostte
They're easy to lose. The vaughn ain't a baad tool but I have to shave the handle a little slimmer so I can swirl it around easier. Too much like a club off the rack. make it fit yopur paw ans you can pivot it and nail faster instead of feeling like you're pounding nails with a rock
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, a shingle hatchet is a bit on the light end, with a small blade.
However, for an axe, two hands to operate - like my double bitted. Hatchet - one handed, shorter handle.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
If you use number of hands used as a defining guide, what do you do with a hudson's bay axe?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You mean this one? http://www.backyardgardener.com/gp/Gardening_Products/Gardening_Tools_Eq/Axes_Mauls/Axes_Mauls/24_Hudson_Bay_Campi.html
Nice bearded axe. Viking influence? Very smiliar to a Scout axe I still have from 40 yrs back. You can backpack this one and do work with it.
I would use one or two hands as circumstances dictated. A two foot handle puts it more in the large hatchet category. My Scout axe has a longer handle, but no one would mistake it for a felling axe. Single bit and lacks the reach. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
IMO, it's the forerunner of the Hart framer, etc.A rig axe (as I'm familiar with them) is a long handled, slim handled, framing hammer with an axe on the other side. Top of tool is straight, not curved like a boy scout hatchet, again similar to the hart framer. It was believed (as taught to me, anyhow), that it was the balance of the rig axe that made it valuable. The balance made it easier to swing. I started without nail guns...Originally, I believe, a ship's carpenter's tool (up in the rigging in the afternoon, swabbing the decks and sharpening harpoons). As I heard it, the axe was both for shaping wood and for chopping through a BIG rope if one got caught in a tangle forty feet above a very small looking deck! My understanding is that the axe part was kept SHARP! I still have my Estwing rig axe that I bought in the 70s. I hate the thing! Probably a main part of why my shoulder hurts today. (you older guys remember: 16d common, expected rhythym: one hit to set, one to send it home.) But, in Estwing's defense, it never broke and I still have it.I much preferred the Vaugh wood handled rig axe. I doubt they still make them.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
@@ Originally, I believe, a ship's carpenter's tool (up in the rigging in the afternoon, swabbing the decks and sharpening harpoons). As I heard it, the axe was both for shaping wood and for chopping through a BIG rope if one got caught in a tangle forty feet above a very small looking deck! My understanding is that the axe part was kept SHARP!
Carpenters didn't do decks. Carpenter, cook, sailmaker, boatswain, painter were the "idlers". Stood no watches. Day workers. Messed in the round house. Turned out for "all hands", of course.
Some axe bumf:
Weapon and tool, the axe was carried to sea by sailors in time before memory, and there has remained into present as the ships fire axe. Accordingly axes were known by many names. By the time of the American Revolution, they were noted in ships manifests, armory receipts, ordinance lists as battle axe, pole axes, sometimes simply axes, or hatchets. ’’The axe was carried by boarders and used to damage the enemy’s ship, cut up his rigging, hack through a spar and smash through a bulkhead. It was a weapon of destruction, but, of course, still basically an axe with a spike at the back. It was also useful in emergencies for cutting away ropes or spars which threatened to endanger the ship". (Dictionary of Tools, used in the woodworking and allied trades, Ca.1700 1970, R.A. Salaman, Pg49).
The Estwing rigger's axe looks like it morphed from this, replacing the spike with a hammer head.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Good bit of history!I wasn't really thinking that the ship's carpenters were swabbing the decks, I was more trying to establish the setting for the use of the tool.Did you see Master and Commander?Good movie!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Rigging axe - I would say, cutting rigging and anything else that got in the way.
If your rigging got shot away - and aiming for the rigging was a common French tactic - there was a bit of cleanup work to do (under fire). The Brits prefered to close and go for the hull with carronades (Carron Iron Works) that threw a lot of metal, but at close range. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I started framing with a rig axe.We were the fastest framing crew
around,though when I moved North and mentioned the axe I was
referred to as a butcher. The only butcher part was when you
smacked your finger with that 38 oz. axe,what a rush. Especially if
it was a hot day. Thanks for the memories.