I have apartments and tend to do things that others in construction couldn’t do for a client. Like have a shower head on the opposite wall as the shower valve. (Tenants love it.) Or, use ten coats of oil base Polyurethane in a hallway. (Looked great until some movers damaged it.)
Anyway, what I did was add about a half a gallon of auto antifreeze to a hot water heating system. I have a cast iron boiler and a mix of cast iron radiators and copper plumbing. I know that auto antifreeze helps to coat dissimilar metals on a car engine to prevent corrosion so I thought it might help in my heating system. Every time I drained any water out of the system I get this black crud.
My problem is that my B&G 100 pump started rattling about a year after I did this. So, OK, it’s an old pump. It just died. I replaced it. The replacement has now started rattling. Not all the time. Just occasionally.
I’ve used B&G pumps for 35 years. Had motors burn out and pumps start squealing. Never rattling.
I have two questions: 1.) What the h… is causing this rattling? 2.) Could the antifreeze have some how effected the pump (Ate bearings or washed away oil.) to cause this rattling.
Replies
Sure it's not the coupler rattling? It makes a heck of a noise when IT goes.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
The coupler is that thing with the springs between the motor and the pump? What happens to it? Does one of the arms that holds the springs loosen up? It only rattles sometimes.
The coupler is basically 2 crossed metal bars connected at the tips by springs. One arm connected to the motor shaft, the other arm connected to the pump shaft. It acts as a shock absorber and torque limiter.
If the springs fail, or wear through the arm and let go, you now have a motor turning a metal arm not connected to the pump. Makes on he?? of a noise! I doubt that this is your case based on your description.
Could be something unrelated. Check all the mounting bolts to see if they are tight. Do you oil the pump every so often? There are little oil cups or plastic tubes, one where the motor joins the pump, and maybe one on the rear of the motor. Make sure the noise isn't some BX rattling on some pipe, or a loose cover on the enclosure.
Sorry, don't know much about the additives.Pete Duffy, Handyman
Know nothing about your pump but anti-freeze has lubricants in it for your cars' water pump. Hard to believe it would strip the oil from yours... Buic
Don't know 'bout the current problem, but I hope that when you added this, you made darn sure that you had a perfectly working backflow preventor on the supply lead in and that any gaskets in it could not be damaged by the anitfreeze, or you could have been poisoning your tenants
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
The attachment is a B&G coupling, the LF part is of an old cast iron part, the RH part is the 'new improved' stamped part. I keep this set and the allen wrenches right next to the pump (been running one for over 35 years on fireplace water circulation) for when the rattle starts. (I ran out of the old cast parts a few years ago.)
The old cast part hardly ever had the set screw come loose, esp with loctite. The newer ones only have a little bit of thread and come loose more often.
Note that there is an intermediate bar. I have had one of those wear thru, and it truly is just a rattle (similar to when the set screw on a stamped part starts coming loose. When the main drive hole wears thru or a spring end breaks, then is is a raelly big racket, you know something is going on then!
The only time a spring broke on us was when I was in Scotland in Dec., hard to tell DW how to fix on the phone, should have showed her first, she ended up holed up for a week in one of the rooms with supplemental elec. heat.
I was going to paste the pix in the text here, but I did a BIG 445KB pix for detail, so won't burden any dial up people who really aren't interested.
Edited 12/3/2005 10:30 pm ET by junkhound
Art, with that stamped metal setup, I would be tempted to drill a pocket into or even through the shaft of the pump or motor, for that set screw.Use a longer setscrew if needed. It'd be nice to go all the way through.Matter of fact, you could drill undersize and tap the hole/pocket. Then use plenty of locktite.Now, what can we drizzle in the "cap" portion of the stamped metal, that will fill the gaps when set on the shaft... That will set up hard, but not so brittle that it just gets beaten back out of there as powder or something. That doesn't actually glue the parts together like epoxy would. And that can be cleaned out when the time comes for a changeout.Maybe a dab of Lexel or something similar ? Yes, it would glue the parts together, but not like JBWeld would. It would have the added benefit of shock absorption.
"If we'd stop trying to be happy we could have a pretty good time." - Edith Wharton
You might have an easier time nicking the shaft with a grinder, just to make a flat spot for the set screw. Sometimes motor shafts can be case-hardened, in which case you'll never get a drill sideways into the shaft.
That plus a bit of removable Lock-Tite, and it should stay.
True.I have yet to find a shaft I couldn't drill. But that doesn't mean squat. Except maybe it means I have only dealt with the lesser, (read here, cheaper), shafts. LOL
"If we'd stop trying to be happy we could have a pretty good time." - Edith Wharton
I think Junkhound got the problem. The coupling set screws on the old pump that I saved and the working pump were loose. Time will tell if this was really the problem since it only rattles sometimes but it makes sense.
Thanks to all that have helped.
Please put my mind at ease re the backflow preventor and poison in the system!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I dropped the long
money for the proper non-automotive anti
freeze. If you really need to go the
antifreeze route, esp. with a rental,
you MUST get the real thing. If you
are strung for the money, think of two
things: an injury, a death, a lawsuit.
Or slightly less frightening, a flood.
I came home to the frozen flood. Amazingly
I got there before it melted so I pretty
much just scrapped it all up and tossed
it out the windows. It froze so fast it
really never penetrated anything. It
popped nearly half the baseboard elements
at the fittings. I repaired all but one
element. Man, did I get off lucky or what?I can tell you it was nearly painless to
go buy 15 gallons of antifreeze in the
vicinity of ten bucks a gallon at the
Home Despot. Having antifreeze in the
system is a pain in the hutt but that
is the price of safety. Oh, dont forget,
that stuff is stellar paint remover.Snowing out now, Im 100 miles from home
at work and I m worry free.Flush the system and spend the dough
be happy.
OK Puffin, There is a new (approx year or two old) pressure reducer/back flow preventer on the boiler. (The old valve stopped filling the system without my playing with it.) In the 35 years that I've owned and lived in the building I have never seen the street pressure, that's at 70 lbs, go negative. Even when a building across the street from me caught fire and there were the usual pump trucks sucking water from all three hydrants on the street I was still able to take a shower. (I live on the top floor.)
I will drain, flush, and refill the system using the proper antifreeze the next time the weather gets above 50 or 60 degrees. Although. I would be as concerned about the black mud that drains from the system as the antifreeze that I put in it.
whew!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Get the antifreeze that is safe. The backflow you have is NOT for hazardous fluids.
If you shut off the water to your house to change the water heater,etc. The boiler may be at a higher pressure.
Edited 12/4/2005 4:52 pm ET by rich1
Luka's post reminded me that I forgot to mention that the B&G pump and motor shafts have a hole drilled almost 1/3 the way thru that the set screws go into -- that is why it still pumps and rattles rather than just spinning. . ..can take a pix if requested.
Aha, they already thought of it.Then I would say that the best fix for the situation is not really locktite. But to clean everything up with brake cleaner, then reassemble with a large dab of lexel in the cap, and a small dab in the pocket for the setscrew on the shaft.Gourd head and locktite the setscrew to the cap if you want to. =0) ie, lexel the pocket in the shaft, run the setscrew maybe halfway in, then dab the threads with loctite, and finish setting it.Just try to give the lexel a day to cure, if you can.Also, rather than buying a big tube of lexel... "Goop" marine glue is just as good. Maybe better, actually, for this app.
"If we'd stop trying to be happy we could have a pretty good time." - Edith Wharton
Two things came to mind when I read your post, the seals compatibility with the glycol in the pump, and the motor mounts.
When you replaced the pump - did you swap out the entire assembly - as in new motor, and new pump? Or did you just bolt up a new pump to the old motor? I tried the same thing a while back, only to find that the motor "mounts" can sag over the years (especially if the lube oil hits them).
If the motor mounts are sagged then the alignment of the pump shaft and the motor axle are off. Apparently it kills the coupler in a really short time (making a racket in the process).
I ended up just replaceing the whole assembly after a few go-arounds with the couplers and pumps (didn't give it the full 4oz. of oil - oops).
Supposedly you can get replacement rubber motor mounts. So, I'd try that. Might be special order - but for a few bucks, it's probably worth trying.