Have u guys seen the windmill farm
This is the mostly completed windmill farm about 1/2 hour from where I live on tug hill-apparently the most consistently windy spot on earth- lots of uproar and theres a certain road I drove down where you get a real good look and its hard to put in words its pretty amazing, dominates the landscape. theres almost 200 of them up there. Heres a good article about how people feel around here. I tried to take pics but they don’t let you realize the mass of it. To get a good idea what you really see imagine ten of these pictures side by side and that’s your view.
A guy I work with is signing up in cape Vincent, that’s probably the next big spot. Its about an hour from these pics, different company and they tell him average of just under 10,000 per year per windmill for him, hell take 2. These are pics if found on yahoo. Of course the concept is great but just how many of these is it going to take to really make an impact Im thinking they would have to be everywhere you look. Thoughts?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_re_us/a_bitter_wind
Replies
I have one of these farms near me (Tehachapi). Definitely dominates the landscape - wouldn't want to live anywhere near one... but then again, I'd rather live near those things than a nuclear power plant!
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Huck, less that 50 miles from those windmills are 3 nuclear power plants.
Upstate NY is the power generation capital for NYC. Can't produce it in NYC, god help them if the produced some of their own power
Danno, there is an article in the Utica observer dispatch this morning about the complaining that is going on. They state 6000/ windmill is their compensation.
Might you have a link to that story. I failed to locate that particular story via a search.
Might be the same link as in the first post. I read the article on yahoo news when it first hit and remember a mention of the land owners being paid the 6k. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_re_us/a_bitter_wind
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
It was said one reason the companies liked the area is ease in transporting the 40ft long blades on the lake instead of trucking them in.
gimmie a break, a friggin' break.
where's GWA when you need 'em?
I think the blades are over 100 ft. long and the poles are around 300ft. high
I saw a blade being trucked in the other direction on the expressway. Definitely longer than the standard 55' semi-trailer and into the "oversize load" category. 100' may be about right.There is a wind farm in the town where my wife and youngest daughter went to college. It is really flat there and generally known as 'windy."http://ourohio.org/index.php?page=change-is-in-the-wind-3
I will try to find.
http://www.uticaod.com/
Try this link
You are right about that 6000 that is for the ones on tug hill, I have heard its a little more maybe its 6 after taxes?. Supposedly the other ones are bigger and they say payout is avg. 10,0000 I think realistic est. is 8500. Its a different company too. They also told him 4900 if the windmill sits there and is inoperable.
Seems to be par for the couse with these things you know how the rumor mill works. But I do know they do also pay neighbors like 1000 a year for the inconvinece, seems pretty low but they have to agree to it so its up to themView Image
Huck, less that 50 miles from those windmills are 3 nuclear power plants.
I didn't know that there are three of them. Where are they?
Oswego, and they are preparing the papers to build another one!!!!!!!!!!
"Oswego, and they are preparing the papers to build another one!!!!!!!!!!"
They still gotta be quieter than the Super Modifieds (race cars) :)!
"There's something about Marxism that brings out warts; the only kind of growth this economic system encourages." P.J. O'Rourke
Anything is quieter!!>G<
My grandparentts used to live there and on Sat nites all summer you knew they were there.
The windmills or your grandparents? And why only on Saturday nights?
The second question requires less of an answer depending on the answer to your first question.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Sat nite racing nite in oswego!!!!!!!!
Gotcha.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Sorry it wasn't more exciting.
There are four nukes in upstate nyark; Syracuse, Rochester, Buchanon and Oswego
Tim, there are 3 operating in Oswego alone!
Another on the drawing board right now!
Edited 11/26/2008 11:17 am ET by frammer52
There are three nuclear power plant units on the 900 acre site, which include the Nine Mile Point power plant and the Fitzpatrick power plant. NMP is ususally attributed to being "in" Syracuse vs. Oswego. The units are never located in cities, just somewhat near them. I consider the two units at NMP as one power plant. Semantics, I suppose.
with those 3 nuclear plants and windmills on the tug hill plateau, windmills in Madison county and many more planned.
I for one, would have no prblem living near a nuclear plant. Or a windmill.
If anyone is unwilling to be near the source of their electricity, shut it off. All of those environmentalist on Nantucket (replublicans are not allowed to get off the boat, and ALL good democrats are sensitive environmentalists, right?) or was it Cape Cod?, raised all billy heck when an offshore wind farm was proposed. Would spoil their view, so it was said. Cut the power and see what happens.
right?) or was it Cape Cod?, raised all billy heck when an offshore wind farm was proposed. Would spoil their view,
If you read the cape cod news online, they are still fighting the proposal. It looks like the people that want unspoiled view are loosing right now.
I live in upstate NY and get pissed off when people in NYC refuse to allow nuclear plants around them, like they are special.
There is a big discussion going on now about new power lines to NYC, through upstate villages and cities.
The proposed wind farm is off Nantucket sound and the battle still continues. The 'view' if the turbines are built is the equivalent of holding a half a toothpick between your fingers at arms length on the horizon.
All I recall of the story is the gross hypocrisy of the whole thing.
I wonder what the % will be of all those wind turbines around Sweetwater, Roscoe, Snyder, Texas will end up like these???
Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyOiDQGn-6k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gcY8dNqzxs&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkTUY2slYQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o&feature=related
http://www.magenn.com/index.php#
Where do you live, you sound like a west Texas boy-------WW 57
Grew up around Snyder, Sweetwater area...get back there ever so often... I saw that you haven't filled out your background and are a newbie to this forum... Where are you?
One "Good-Ole" wind turbine company bought 170 hams from one of the county school's FFA classes and had the Ag class kids deliver them to all those they leased land from.... Big of 'em...since they paid ONE DOLLAR an acre to lease wind farm land...
Go back and see my disgust and total DISTRUST of wind turbine companies in that area.... Used Car Salesman rank higher...
Bill
Edited 1/18/2009 11:46 pm ET by BilljustBill
I don't know anything about these wind turbine companies, but they are going up everwhere out here. Around Stanton and Sterling City, there must be 100's or maybe a thousnad. They are thicker than fleas on an ol houng dog in July. I live just down I-20 in Midland. Do you know any Rineharts in Snyder?---------WW 57
I used to know some Wadleigh's in Snyder. I think they ran a grocery store.
I know some Bonneau's in Midland.
I understood that the "wind fall" of the 199' blade diameter turbines, 1 megawatt size, has almost come to a halt due to the economy. If you know anyone that signed a lease and have been told that they are some of the ones that AREN'T getting a wind turbine, tell them to review the lease they signed.... The land owners actually gave away the wind rights to their property for the entire 28 years shown in the original lease they signed... I'd bet a dollar to your donut that they were told at first.."No Turbine means the Lease expires in 4 years".... There's one section that "Survives" the termination of their speal of "No Turbine the lease expires..." PLUS, the land owner now can't put anything up over 30' tall, put in trees, or even lease the land for cell towers...because it blocks/distorts clear air around their turbines. For their 28 year wind rights the now have, the E.on or Airtricity company will pay those small acreage folks a one time pymt. of $3,500.....ONLY after the half-way point of completion of all the project's wind turbines are erected and operating...One farm has 195 turbines...how long will it take to get half way in this economy?
As long as I'm on a soap box about ripping off the average American in the name of power generation.....In Sweetwater, Texas, they are also trying to let a coal-fired generation plant be built between two railroad lines that not only haul in the coal, but also haul away the "Fly Ash" that's left over from the burned coal.... Here's a government link to new research data that shows that coal, itself, has many different types of Heavy Metals plus Uranium that DOESN'T BURN away.... The "Fly Ash" now has concentrated those heavy metals that can be not only inhaled as it is piled at the plant and spread over the area the railroad covers as it takes it away for disposal, but also the report shows there's enough Uranium 235 taken from a year's worth of ash to make TWO atomic bombs....
Both the Sweetwater Reporter and the Abilene Reporter newspapers have been recently shown this research... At this point JUST SILENCE...
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html
Electrical generation has a dark side, even when you're not considering the Nuclear powered plants...
Bill
Edited 1/19/2009 9:42 pm ET by BilljustBill
Some of the Wadleighs had a const. company, but old man Wadleigh passed away several years ago. I went to High school with 2 Bonneau boys----Ronnnie and Don. I can't remember if they were brothers or cousins.. I posted my profile. It has not been posted before because I was undercover-----trying to help Jack Bauer get out of some tight spots---------WW 57
"...windmills in Madison county..."Is that a sequel to that 1995 Clint Eastwood movie? :)BruceT
nope.
"Can't produce it in NYC, god help them if the produced some of their own power"Some people are trying to change that.http://www.nysun.com/new-york/want-to-build-a-ny-power-plant-youd-better-have/30065/And there are small plants in NYC but they are mostly high demand only facilities.
Unfortunately we here in NY are blessed with a
completely dis functional Gov.
Pataky is gone, and his rival Bruno but little has changed.
Plus there have been several attempts to have coastal
power sources installed only to meet overwhelming opposition.
People don't want it in their back yard, period.
Don't forget that the dems under Silve has controlled the house for years. He has never seen a tax he doesn't like.
I'm holding out hope for Paterson.
But it seems like this tax cap thing is stopping
him cold. I don't get it,we're broke. If they don't let him reign in
spending, the state is up a creek.
Did you see the house, they want to raise taxes on incomes over 1 mill., drive them out of NY. I wish and hope Paterson gets his way and gets to cut the budget.
Yeah saw that.
I don't know the teachers union has a lot of clout.
It's not just the teachers union, but it appears that they are fighting an uphill battle upstate, downstate, they want to soak it to the rich.
I'm hoping that my back yard is big enough for one.
(It isn't, but it will be a very long time before a foreign interest can control the wind. And we need renewable energy sources that cannot be controlled by outsiders.)
"(It isn't, but it will be a very long time before a foreign interest can control the wind. And we need renewable energy sources that cannot be controlled by outsiders.)"I hate to tell you this, but wind and solar is controlled by OUTSIDE FORCES.Back in Feburary Texas had to declare a power emergency and drop a number of interrupable power users because of a sudden drop in the wind.And that was with a relatively small amount of power comming from the wind turbines..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I said>>"(It isn't, but it will be a very long time before a foreign interest can control the wind. And we need renewable energy sources that cannot be controlled by outsiders.)"And You replied>>"I hate to tell you this, but wind and solar is controlled by OUTSIDE FORCES.>>Back in Feburary Texas had to declare a power emergency and drop a number of interrupable power users because of a sudden drop in the wind.And how is it that the sudden drop in the wind was made to happen by foreign interests? I'll agree that it was some sort of "outside force", but my statement was clearly referencing foreign interests.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Thoughts?
Ya, 2 companies are trying to buy city land to put up 20 of them here in this litle northeastern Ohio burg right on lake erie.
Personally I feel the representatives of the city government for the most part have their collectiveazzes in their heads ever since they managed to let a prison be built here but whaddaIknow.
Seems like the windmills wouldn't be that conducive to draw recreation to the area and once the novelty of the idea wears off they are going to be there regardless if you like them or not.
Windmills still being somewhat new to the forefront of the energy rush in popularity
one might think the abuse by fraud and lies would be greater now than a few more years down the line after things get ironed out more
and the hidden pitfalls become common knowledge to help balance out the sales pitch as the companies dangle the financial carrot in front of empty city coffers.
Kinda sucks.
be noise, production lies and birdkill
Seems like the windmills wouldn't be that conducive to draw recreation to the area and once the novelty of the idea wears off they are going to be there regardless if you like them or not
Exactly what I was thinking. The area where they want them now would be nothing without the summer recreation crowd. Sounds like its gonna happen there, they are happening on wolf island (which is actually in canada) Ive seen them going down the river on the barges and they have started putting them up. The wind always blows up the river, never not blowing so from a logistical standpoint its good but how many of the vacationers are going to hate them-"ruins my view/life".
When driving down that one road and looking out at all of them its hard to grasp it dominates the view, but that is farmland in a depressed area, not likely to attract money on vacation.
So what is the price we are willing to pay, seems to me its almost a nessicisty the way the countrys been going, to produce cheap energy, but as you know the electric bill isnt going to decrease ever, no matter how many windmills they get. Would I put one on my farmland - sure, would I put one out in front of my St. lawrence river view-not sure yet, but I think there comming. BTW I dont live on the river just work there everyday.View Image
Do you know if we still buy hydro power from Ontario?
Seems like the windmills wouldn't be that conducive to draw recreation to the area and once the novelty of the idea wears off they are going to be there regardless if you like them or not.
Anything can be conductive to bringing tourists in, just depends on how you spin it. We had a small town nearby that had an annual cow chip toss... and they'd have THOUSANDS of people turn up for it. You wouldn't think throwing animal dung would bring tourists in, but you just never know...
be noise, production lies and birdkill
Production is going to depend on the wind. As far as bird kills... which everytime someone mentions a wind turbine, somebody in the back starts yelling about 'they kill birds'. That story started at the big CA wind farm back in the 80's when they used small turbines spinning at high speeds. Those turbines did kill birds. But studies show that the newer, slower turning turbines kill less birds than does a highway overpass. As far as I can tell, no one is advocating the removal of highway overpasses due to the bird kills?
As far as the noise, I have no idea. I can remember a little one (like 4' diameter blades) sounded like a leaf blower, but then it was also spinning at a high rpm. I've never been right up near one of the big daddys as it spun along.jt8
My only strong statement regarding the erection of windmills lies in the areas of placement and the truth of all matters pertinent to them be openly made public before presenting the bandwagon.
Instead of tossing them ramshackle across the landscape at the whim of any company and naive smalltown city council that says yea.
If they are that good of juice producers then put them out of direct sight out on the lakes and really catch the winds.
And produce a large motion blanket that can ride the waves hooked to some kind of turbine while they're at it.
Uh, I find telephone poles and high-voltage towers to be quite the eyesore. Maybe we should tear them all down.
<soap-box>
Freud called Man the 'prosthetic god,' adding "The fake limbs still itch." Our relationship to technology is always strained, with unexpected costs and unintended consequences being inevitable.
In the case of energy, the longer we postpone the switch from fossil fuels, the more painful and difficult it will be. The switch is inevitable, no matter how much debate there might be over global warming or diminishing resources.
Maybe future generations will perfect fusion, and they can tear down all the wind-mills.
</soap-box>
since the largest windmills I know of are 3 Mw at full capacity and ONE nuke generates about 2000Mw ( 24 hrs a day ) the math should be real simple 2000 / 3 = 666
wow thats weird or ironic,
personally the windmill bandwagon is chock full of " poor " subsidized farmers who can barely make ends meet along with the folks that think the nukes and coal are going anywhere and I think the things are grotesque
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the windmills in the article are 1.65 Mw
so that would mean that over 1200 of them to equal just one nuke, and since most of the nukes are licensed for at least another twenty years what the hell are we saving ourselves from because by then we will have to build 1200 or more to just keep up with the population right now there are 104 nuke generators, which is about 5% of the total number of generating stations in the US but supply over 20% of the power so a rough guess would 125,000 windmills as replacements!! we can all sleep better without a nuke killing all of us........ maybe just a few at a time would be better this is a Vesta, like the ones on Tug Hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-othere are several videos of wind failures including one in Lackawanna NY last year but ClipperWind is the mfr of those,
BTW the blade hubs on those Clippers weigh in at a little under 56,000 lbsone more thing, the grid as we were all told back on 1999 - 2000 was incapable of more capacity, so more transmission towers will have to be built in order for these monsters to be of any real benefit.. do you recall gas fired Peakers ??
They were all the rage at the end of the century because deregulation was on the horizon and some energy companies couldn't build them fast enough ... like Enron.but during peak hours most utilities can crank out enough without buying it from private concerns or other utilities, so those beasts may just be spinning in the wind most of the time and not making any money.
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Wind Power has its place but it's not the panacea so many think it is. This link explains why. http://www.prwebdirect.com/releases/2006/8/prweb420633.htm
"There's something about Marxism that brings out warts; the only kind of growth this economic system encourages." P.J. O'Rourke
I liked that link.
I also read in the UK papers, that last winter the windmills all over Europe stopped and they had a terrible time producing enough energy to replace.
Come to find out, there is a period of 1 week a year when in all of Europe there isn't enough wind to turn the windmills.
Maybe the french, i wish it weren't so, are right in building all those nukes!
exactly.. but some folks still think we should just build the shid out of these things, there are a couple big sites in West Central Indiana and some goofy outfit wants to put them in Lake Michigan, no ice out there !!I see the same frenzy regarding these things as when the Peakers were the Next Big Thing and we couldn't build those fast enough, but towns got smart real fast.... now it's just playing on the greed on some citizens.
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The middle of Lake Michigan would actually be a good location assuming the engineering could be pulled off. That way we'd have the benefits and the people that hate them would not be able to see them.
I know the lake is deep, but we've over come tougher waters than the Great Lakes to drill oil.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
wind will never produce all our power. It is just one piece of the puzzle. It would be nice if we could reduce our consumption, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
But if we increase the # of turbines and increase the solar power and increase the technology to burn coal cleanly and maybe just cut down our usage a bit... maybe it will all help.
jt8
how much more cleanly do you want coal to burn ? john,
the emissions from the stacks in the plants around here are all but invisible anymore, they are using either of two types of SCRs ( Selective Catalytic Recovery ) , these things trap almost 100% of Sulfur Dioxide while FGDs or Flue Gas Desulfurization traps Mercury and some other nasties ... ( one plant claims they release only 50 POUNDS of Mercury per year )and they all use electrostatic precipitators to catch any solids like ashback to SCRs, one is "wet" which still allows water vapor through the stacks and the other "dry" where the flue gas is practically invisible with no more yellow haze in the sky from either.I happen to work from time to time at the largest fossil plant in NW Indiana and they break power generation records every Summer, and they seem quite happy with that, while the nuke in Michigan runs both reactors ( almost 4000Mw ) at 100% 365 days a year . they're best run was over 400 days without a trip IIRCpeople don't conserve, people don't care, they want the lights on and they don't seem to care how that happens.
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how much more cleanly do you want coal to burn ?
Our municipal power plant, CWLP, is supposed to have some of the cleanest coal burning in the country, but you still occasionally drive by and see a yellow smudge stretching across the sky for miles, or black smoke belching out.
There is still plenty of room for improvement. I've seen on a Modern Marvels episode where a power plant in the SW was experimenting with running their exhaust through a bunch of algae filled tanks. The algae feeds on sunlight and the carbon monoxide or dioxide in the exhaust. Thereby reducing harmful emmisions by that much more. Is there anything else we can do to reduce emmisions?
As several folks here have said, there is no magic bullet that will solve all our problems. It is a complex puzzle where we have to keep improving each piece until the whole
people don't conserve, people don't care, they want the lights on and they don't seem to care how that happens
BINGO! They don't care what MPG their SUV gets until they have to pay $4/gal. They won't care about how many KWH's their homes use until their rate triples. Too much apathy.
An extra few thousand $$ when someone builds a house could make a HUGE difference on the energy usage over the lifespan of that house. Buying a vehicle that gets 5-10mpg better would make a difference when magnified by 300 million people.
Seems like our current energy crisis is like a large bucket full of holes. The popular solution right now seems to be that we need to pump the water into the bucket faster. Common sense SHOULD be telling them that maybe if we plugged a few of the holes, the water wouldn't run out so fast.jt8
Seems like our current energy crisis is like a large bucket full of holes. The popular solution right now seems to be that we need to pump the water into the bucket faster. Common sense SHOULD be telling them that maybe if we plugged a few of the holes, the water wouldn't run out so fast.
That's very well put.
" bucket full of holes " yes that is it, one one hand we have a former VP making huge sums of money running around telling us how bad things are and we're all doomed, while on the other hand some folks think they just need to buy a case of CFLs or an Energy Star appliance and they have done their part for conservation,
when true conservation would mean just turning things off.I also feel that next generation Nukes will have to be built or we will indeed end up in the dark, since there is nothing in this country that can match their output
I also think that some here will agree that our current reactor design was based on a decades old model that was built for the US Navy ! but people who are fighting new plants both nuke and fossil all over the country are quite willing to accept these windmills as a clean better solution. I don't get it, maybe it is indeed because of ignorance or apathy
Obviously there are no easy answers and we all need to realize that the current craze is not the solution... since most of us have little knowledge of how electricity is generated in the quantities this country needs.
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The general public's perception is that nuke waste is a huge unsolved problem. But people don't want to be in the dark, so new nukes will be built. Maybe we can send the waste into space?
David, maybe it is time to reprocess the waste as they do in other parts of the world.
I'm definitely at least as ignorant as the average joe about what can be done. I've talked to some folks I respect quite a bit who think the newer reactors are quite safe. My views are mostly clouded with all the hysteria that's out there. It would be great if we could just build some windmills and PV panels and be happily on our way, but it apparently isn't so. I'm likely to get some of my own PV and solar hot water anyway, just because I dig stuff like that.
I am looking at a small windmill, myself. Waiting for the price to come down a little though.
I have been told that we don't reprocess the waste, and if we did it would reduce the waste about 90%
"Lured by state subsidies and buoyed by high oil prices, the wind industry has arrived in force in upstate New York, promising to bring jobs, tax revenue and cutting-edge energy to the long-struggling region. But in town after town, some residents say, the companies have delivered something else: an epidemic of corruption and intimidation, as they rush to acquire enough land to make the wind farms a reality.“It really is renewable energy gone wrong,†said the Franklin County district attorney, Derek P. Champagne, who began a criminal inquiry into the Burke Town Board last spring and was quickly inundated with complaints from all over the state about the wind companies. Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo agreed this year to take over the investigation.“It’s a modern-day gold rush,†Mr. Champagne said."http://tinyurl.com/5ltxfg
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Reminds me more of the "Oil Rush " in the west and plains states during the first part of the 20th century.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"I also think that some here will agree that our current reactor design was based on a decades old model that was built for the US Navy !"
That is wrong, whether you or others here agree.
The latest designs in the industustry when I was directly invloved with commercial nuclear power were far removed from the previous technology from the 60's and 70's. The reactors that are currently in service are old, and based on older technology. Do you realize that last nuclear power plant that was "ordered" (i.e. purchased for construction) was in 1973.? The last plant granted an operating license was in 1996. When I left the industry at the end of 2000, the current designs at the time cutting edge and state of the art. I would expect the advancement has continued since my involvement. Don't confuse what is in operation with current design.
poorly worded on my part, so I defer to you.
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Very little design similarity between Naval and commercial reactors.
hmm I only know what I was told by other EEsand since I have been banned this is most likely my last response .
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No! Don't go. Hang on. What did you do?
Live in Fenner New York.
I'm staring at four vesta windmills out my front window as we type.
Problem is,none of them are on my property.
Sure you'd like the income from wind turbines on your land, but you might not like the noise. Can you hear them from where you are?
The Windmills are up the road a half mile. As far as noise all you hear is a woosh at every blade turn.
don't really knowdon't really carehaven't heard from the neanderthal who does the banning, just couldn't see the Tav one day and haven't seen it since so they can KMA.
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I did not realize how bad it was."E.On cites a study from the Deutsche-Energie Agentur. The report was sponsored by the German government and all sides of the industry. Among bombshells contained inside, the study suggests that while wind power capacity will reach 48 GW by 2020 in Germany, the source is so intermittent and unreliable that it is equivalent to only 2 GW of stable fossil fuel capacity.""The evidence also shows a mismatch of supply and demand. High pressure weather systems bring cold winters and hot summers which unfortunately coincide with low wind levels. These meteorological realities mean that wind makes its maximum contribution when demand is lowest and its minimum contribution when demand is highest.""Also, because of this variability in wind, back-up fossil fuel plants must be operated at low load to maintain system reliability. There is new evidence that shows that switching base load fossil fuel plants on and off to balance a system produces higher carbon emissions than continuous operation, certainly not a supposed benefit from switching to renewable energy sources."And from http://www.windaction.org/"
Judith Gap power also is a bargain for NorthWestern, at about 3.2 cents/kWh. However, wind power provides virtually none of NorthWestern's capacity requirements, and the utility needs on-call contracts and other means to ensure it meets load. The relationship between load and wind output is almost zero. That's a real issue for us.
- Northwest wind farms can be big on energy, low on peak capacity, July 29, 2008
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
there are several videos of wind failures including one in Lackawanna NY last year but ClipperWind is the mfr of those, BTW the blade hubs on those Clippers weigh in at a little under 56,000 lbs
OK, so what power generating method has never had a failure or accident?jt8
probably none ! there are industrial accidents every day, along with 41,000 deaths on roads every year...they are not that reliable, they don't produce that much power, they take up inordinate amounts of space, they are expensive to install and they're damn ugly, the only reason Europe keeps putting them up I believe is, the lack of a grid like ours... maybe they have, one I don't know and I don't care, it's their continent..if it costs $3 million for one then those 1200+ I mentioned earlier would be what ? $3.6 BILLION to erect and at 5 acres per that's 6000 acres to equal the output of one nuke which is less that .01% of the total fleet in this country. it is irresponsibe to even think these things are the answerthere was a report over a year ago discussing what Silicon Valley releases into the air, it was some HUGE amount of some chemical used in chip manufacturing that is far worse than CO2 but so what ..?.
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I know sounds can disturb the psyche so I'd have to visit somebody living under them before I had an opinion whether I'd want one in my back yard.
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There is now "wind turbine syndrome"http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/health/5947095.html""The medical thing" is new research suggesting that living close to wind turbines, as Eaton and her 60-year-old husband, Mike, soon will be doing, can cause sleep disorders, difficulty with equilibrium, headaches, childhood "night terrors" and other health problems.Dozens of wind turbines are taking shape along Oregon 74, a designated Oregon Scenic Byway, near the home the Eatons have shared for 19 years.Dr. Nina Pierpont of Malone, N.Y., coined the phrase "wind turbine syndrome" for what she says happens to some people living near wind energy farms. She has made the phrase part of the title of a book she's written called Wind Turbine Syndrome: A Report on the Natural Experiment. It is scheduled for publication next month by K-Selected Press of Santa Fe, N.M.Better if two miles away
In contrast to those who consider wind turbines clean, green and an ideal source of renewable energy, Pierpont says living or working too close to them has a downside. Her research says wind turbines should never be built closer than two miles from homes.Pierpont, 53, is a 1991 graduate of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and has a doctorate in population biology from Princeton University. Her interest was piqued by a wind farm being built near her upstate New York home, and she studied 10 families living near wind turbines built since 2004 in Canada, England, Ireland, Italy and the United States.What's the frequency?
Pierpont's findings suggest that low-frequency noise and vibration generated by wind machines can have an effect on the inner ear, triggering headaches; difficulty sleeping; tinnitus, or ringing in the ears; learning and mood disorders; panic attacks; irritability; disruption of equilibrium, concentration and memory; and childhood behavior problems.Concerns also are coming out of Europe about low-frequency noise from newly built wind turbines.For example, British physician Amanda Harry, in a February 2007 article titled "Wind Turbines, Noise and Health," wrote of 39 people, including residents of New Zealand and Australia, who suffered from the sounds emitted by wind turbines."http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/health/5947095.html.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
""The medical thing" is new research suggesting that living close to wind turbines, as Eaton and her 60-year-old husband, Mike, soon will be doing, can cause sleep disorders, difficulty with equilibrium, headaches, childhood "night terrors" and other health problems.
Wheew! Good thing they didn't live near any of the thousands of miles or RR tracks or near an airport or near an interstate.jt8
Interesting post, which I tracked down because of a problem I enountered a couple of years ago concerning some noise in our area.
About midnight one night the dogs and I were awakened by a strange noise - sounded like an arcing transformer. It was very loud, and I was concerned we had something about to blow since the transformer down the hill had exploded a few months back. I tried to find out where the noise was coming from but couldn't. Anyway, next day the noise was gone so I figured things were fixed.
About a week later this same noise starts again, lower frequency and not as loud, but just as insistent. I have a pretty low tolerance for noise and about 2 sleepless nights and irritating days later I started looking for whatever it was in earnest. My husband didn't hear it, and the dogs for the most part were used to it. They'd only bark when it would get really loud. I, however, was about to go crazy from the constant noise. It got so I'd stay away from home until I just had to come back. When I was home I was anxious, very irritable, couldn't concentrate, etc. I can attribute some of that to not sleeping as well, but not all.
At one point the engineers from the local power company came out to have a listen, but the noise level had dropped way down by then. They were nice and believed me that it had been much worse, but couldn't account for what I was hearing.
The noise eventually disappeared except for occasional spurts, but I began to notice one spring and summer that I'd hear it whenever I was near the high-voltage TVA lines. I could get right below them and nothing, but get a bit away and the noise would be there. Get entirely away from the lines and no noise at all. I've often wondered if anyone else ever heard the same noise or if it was actually the power lines.
I still hear that noise sometimes, and I can tell you it nearly makes the hair stand up on my neck when I do. So, I find the idea of wind turbine syndrome pretty valid. I know I was reacting to the low-freq noise I could hear, but I could have been reacting to frequencies I couldn't hear, too. Guess it's something to watch as these develop.
Low frequency noise! I'll tell you what low frequency noise bugs me -- it's the darned 1000 watt boom boxes that cruse the streets. I am going to go ballistic with a pair of wire cutters and ice pick on those speakers.
virginbuild
Looks like some invasion from mars or the like! Ugly!
God forbid we do the right thing and reduce how much we use!
From what i've heard, i'm thinkin that if there's any truth to global warming that may not look great either.
I still think they're cool.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I think they are awesome and i'd be happy to live right next door to one.
I feel these wind farms give some hope that humanity is actually open to change.
Wind is free and constantly available. It sure seems like a great way to create power.
Now I just need the name of the company that produces the turbines so I can invest at ground level.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
try GE or Clipper Wind , they could use the money.
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Thanks. I just bought some GM stock and after I did that I thought, "Hey stupid, why not try new technology?".
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
it's not exactly new tech ! the two companies have been around for several years, but from what I've read a large share of the wind projects in the US are with foreign owned companies..
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It may not be new but the potential demand in the US is.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Not really a ground level investment but GE is heavily into that.Another early stage hot investment was supposed to be the company that makes the carbon fibre blades that can go up to sixty feet long, but their price has fallen under some investigation into corruption at the company offices
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Near I-20, just outside Abilene, Tx, is a company called "Zoltek". Apparently they are into carbon fiber used in wind turbines.
http://www.zoltek.com/
In the little town of Roscoe, Tx, I've seen company signs from "Seimens" as well as another player in this wind power theme is "Mitsubishi".
Where there's money, there will be dishonesty...
Bill
Zoltec is the one where the CFO was let go. The company line is that the investigation was centered on him and that the product line is sound so things will come around.I don't know enough about it all to be sure, which makes them tooo much of a specualative play for me right now.Seimens has the stuff that governs the power flow.There is yet another company that is on the periphery for many other electrical generation plans regardless of what kind they are. It produces super cooled transmission lines that carry 7-15% more of the power to the end user over long distance high voltage lines. The new grid improvement swill travel along these, is the general take.
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Piffin, you just jogged my memory about power lines and electric companies....
I had a plumber over to do some cast iron work. He got to talking about a local electric Co-op's way to control co-generation into their grid...
Apparently, he lives on a few acres that he leased to a drilling company and has his house tied into a gas well's production. Part of his royalties come with all the gas he can use. He had to provide the line, regulators, and equipment to put the "smell" into the gas. To better use this unlimited and free resource he talked to the Co-op's higher-ups about putting in a co-generation system powered by natural gas.
The Co-op's response: We will let our meter run backwards and offset any electrical use your home has. Any surplus will not be paid for. This pertains to only Solar or Wind production of electricity. Natural Gas run Generators aren't good for the Carbon footprint, so you can't use them...." That ended their communication.
A question for you and the readers: How would you use all the free natural gas you could get?
Bill
I'd go ahead and do a co-generator, carbon be damned, and buy an electric vehicle - unless this is so far out of town that he is out of range.I presume his agreement with the drillers is that he can use all the natgas he can - for pesonal, and not for commercial use.
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I don't know what the rules are ( I presume they exclude commercial use) but I do know that large areas of eastern Ohio have land parcels for sale on which there are some terms with the gas companies for landowners use.
I started to look into it a few years back but then life here got busy and I dropped it. Figured what the heck if it's free gas then heat is covered, gas fired generator and who needs the grid?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'd convert a vehicle to NG. Not sure I see the difference between burning NG in a vehicle and burning it to turn a turbine to generate electricity.
that conversioon would be relatively cheap, but not the equipment he would need to buy to compress and handle it for portability, methinks
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Before you sign any contract with wind farm crooks, READ that contract... You'll be told that the 29 year contract will expire in 4 years if no wind turbine is erected on you property....A BALD FACE LIE!!!!
In a section of the contract,and worded in such a way even a Judge and his attorney couldn't find it, it says that one section (3.1) survives the termination. This one section allows the WIND FARM CROOKS to keep control of your land and it's up to you to find that clause and understand it. For the remainder of the 29 years, you cannot erected anything over 40ft tall, put trees on your land without their permission, or have any other lease that could generate income, by any other company that might generate power or even put up a cell phone repeater tower.... Any land "within 40 times the rotor diameter of the largest wind turbine"( 199ft times 40) is commandeered by the lease to allow free wind up to 600 feet above the property....
The contracts says they will pay you for this at a one time payment based on your acreage. For all of the 29 years, usually small owners get $3,500, once. The kicker...they won't pay it until half the wind turbines are erected and operational... The West Texas group, E.on or Airtricity have wind farms where 190+ turbines are being installed. So, it's almost "When Hell Freezes Over" before those non wind turbine land owners will ever get that little drip of money.
Remember those famous starting words Norm would say? READ, Understand, and Follow...the wind farm lease directly to the trash can. They can build roads over your land, and if you have a Kleechi or gravel pit, it even locks you into selling them the rock product at market value, but they don't have to provide any reclamation to making your pit deeper and bigger!!! You won't know if you get or miss a wind turbine until they have your signature on their contract, but the wind farm snake oil salesman ALWAYS get what they want when they promise monthly checks but grab your land so clear wind will make money for them and other land owners...
Truthfully, when I see one of E.on or Airtricity's wind mills, it just makes me more determinded to get as close to getting off the Grid as I possibly can. Using as little of their electricity as possible just might cause them to get back what lies and twisted worded contracts they dished out....:>(
Bill
Edited 8/17/2008 11:59 pm ET by BilljustBill
Sounds like the old coal leases and oil leases. Always scammers aren't there.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thoughts?
In certain settings they're very suitable and effective, like the large array in the mtn/desert pass between San Bernadino and Palm Springs. In other locales, the tops of ridges in the East US for example, they'd be a serious eye soar.
The thought of seeing these things all over the country depresses me. I'm hoping that photo voltaic technology will progress rapidly and overtake wind generators in the economic race to reduce carbon emmissions.
The thought of seeing these things all over the country depresses me. I'm hoping that photo voltaic technology will progress rapidly and overtake wind generators in the economic race to reduce carbon emmissions.
Someone has to come up with a way to cheaply manufacture them. Just think of all the flat roofs in the US that could be sporting PV panels. No noise, no 300' tower, no moving parts. No one whinning about bird kills.
But folks will whine no matter what. Wonder what they'll come up with to whine about PV's?
jt8
But folks will whine no matter what. Wonder what they'll come up with to whine about PV's? Probably the extra cost when they need a new roof.
Between wind turbines and natural gas drilling Upstate
New York is really getting hit pretty hard these days.
Not sure where I fall on the wind turbine issue myself. I
know it is objectionable to have them forced on you because
some group in NJ didn't want them off their shore, but they
need the power so...
The Gas drilling is exciting/frightening. It would be nice to
be able to say no on your land but...
I feel like we are on the front lines of the next big struggle.
Meanwhile the DEC is unprepared to oversee the gas drilling,
and community after community is fighting turbines with no
clear leadership.
We all need the power, but there needs to be some sort of
governing body to help these small communities navigate these
very cloudy waters.
Someone has to come up with a way to cheaply manufacture them. Just think of all the flat roofs in the US that could be sporting PV panels.
Living in SoCal these last few years, I'm only too well aware of how easy it would be to turn thousands of acres of roofs into solar collectors. That's true for all of the South West. The energy needs of thirty-five million people could be met in this way, reducing oil consumption to a comparative trickle.
As you say, someone has to come up with a more efficient, less expensive PV collector.
Re PV, the figure I've heard is that cost comes down and efficiency goes up about 10% per year. If I sprung for a panel and an electric vehicle I could be driving free about 8 months of the year. The other 4 I need a microturbine. Actually, both would be producing at the moment.
"If I sprung for a panel and an electric vehicle I could be driving free about 8 months of the year. "Again - assumption?
Or have you worked out the hard numbers?
Translating KWhrs of production. conversion losses, and actual amphours needed to power a vehicle for the number of miles you drive?
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I'm like you.... atypical. I live on a small island. Furthest possible jobsite from my house is 13 miles. Even the overpriced underperforming EVs they were showing at the county fair this weekend would serve. They charge in 4 hours drawing about 2000 watts, longer if you choose the lower setting. With interchangeable batteries I could leave one set on the charger all day while driving the others.
Closest thing to a fact I can state, without actually buying it and running it.
"the energy needs of thirty-five million people could be met in this way, reducing oil consumption to a comparative trickle. "Do you have any reference to document this or just assuming?reason I ask is that I'd read that if every roof in America were covered in PV, it would only supply 15%, at best, of the electrical needs of this country, with 5-6% being the more realistic estimate.The sun doesn't shine on the collectors at peak for 24/7 either.
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Do you have any reference to document this or just assuming?
It's an assumption based on potentially affordable efficiency, not unlike that currently attained by ultra expensive NASA PV collectors on the space station.
I watched a PBS show about PV collectors which included the best current examples, the NASA version being the most efficient. I don't recall the sqft cost but it was absurdly expensive, partly because of one of the minerals used.
The rapid advances in lithium ion battery technology give me more reason to believe that PV efficiency cannot be far behind.
"PV collectors on the space station. "There area lot of clouds and atmosphere filtering the solar energy between here and there
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There are a lot of clouds and atmosphere filtering the solar energy between here and there.
Remember that I referred to the South West. The number of days of sun in those desert areas is above 90%. Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, Los Angeles and San Diego are all reclaimed deserts, as are the many smaller cities and towns in between.
The air quality is going to improve markedly when oil consumption is reduced.
yes but there are still a couple hundred miles of atmosphere between earth and the space station. big diff in how much juice they can make up there vs here on earth!
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Very true. In any case, according to others, there's a lot of toxic waste produced during the manufacture of PV cells so, until a remedy is found for that, my dreams about making the SW U.S. self sufficient for all energy needs with photo voltaics are on hold.
You won't eliminate the fossil fuels needs simply by replacing the electrical generation capacity that currently uses fossil fuels- and even doing THAT would be damned near impossible without using a lot more land than is currently covered by flat roofs. And that's assuming that a PV cell as currently constructed will actually generate more energy over its lifetime than it took to make it in the first place, which depending on how it's made is not entirely certain. Ultrapure silicon takes a hell of a lot of energy to make, and that's why it costs so much. People have been looking for a long time but haven't found anything else which works as well.
Existing consumption will be tough to replace with ALL the renewables we can harness. And we're increasing renewables capacity at a glacial pace. So your choices are more nukers, more conservation or more greenhouse gas and associated emissions. Only a carbon tax will help to fix that.
Solve the economic problem and the technological problem is simple to solve. No new technology needed. And unlike at present, there'll be a real market offering a real pay-back to anybody who can come up with a significant and real improvement. But it'll cost ya.
Hey, I said it was a dream. :-)
"You won't eliminate the fossil fuels needs simply by replacing the electrical generation capacity that currently uses fossil fuels- and even doing THAT would be damned near impossible without using a lot more land than is currently covered by flat roofs"I just read another investment newsletter this morning that stated that the elec genration industry expects that even with rapid growth, ALL of the alternative energy sources put together will only be providing something like 7% of America's electricity by 2030.It will still be coal and gas for the most part, with nukes just ramping up.
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but what do we do about all the toxic materials used to make PV cells, and what about the old ones that have to be disposed of ??
with all that Cadmium and Selenium and who knows what else released into the environment?
I don't know about your job but I can't hardly look at anything cadmium plated without a ton of PPE.
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I wasn't aware that there were so many environmental problems involved in producing PV collectors. So it's back to the imaginary drawing board.
but what do we do about all the toxic materials used to make PV cells,
What is the lifespan of PV's? Can they be recycled?jt8
ahh it is the recycling that is the heart of the problem , the manufacture is bad enough but the discarded units are all but impossible to disassemble for the separate elements since the entire thing is ususally encapsulated in epoxy I have always been intrigued with shiny parabolic arrays though.
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They all have their problems. If the wind doesn't blow, the turbines don't produce. The PV's are expensive and need a recycling program. The coal plants are still pumping out green house gasses. The nuke plants produce gobs of contaminated stuff that has to be stored for hundreds/thousands of years.
You pays your money and takes your chance I guess.
jt8
But folks will whine no matter what. Wonder what they'll come up with to whine about PV's?
...;>) Try thinking of the positives of "bird kills" when a band of Grackles move into a neighbor hood or like at Hulen Mall in Ft. Worth Texas... The bird poop is everywhere and if you are headed in or out of the Mall as they come in for the night, you'll think of Alfred Hitchcock's "Birds" and will be bombed.
Think about having to climb to the roof with a mop and pail of soapy water because to keep your PV's in top generation form, you'll have to keep the opaque poop of their surface and blocking the sun....
I'll take PV's over wind ANY time just because of the maintenance issue. ;>)
Bill
LOL, you've got your finger on it!
"Geeze, I had to climb up on the roof and sweep the snow off the panels."
"Geeze, dang birds dumped all over the panels and I had to get up there with the Windex"
I'll take PV's over wind ANY time just because of the maintenance issue
turbines are lower tech and easier to make though. But I agree. Sun is more reliable than wind. And shoot, I have to wonder if you have a whole layer of PV's over your roof, wouldn't that provide a certain amount of shading to the house? Wouldn't compete with a big tree for shading, but you wouldn't be cleaning leaves out of the gutters with PV shade. :)
jt8
"Sun is more reliable than wind."Depends on where you live
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I think this is a new installation, seen it from the train, might have been west of Cut Bank.
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View ImageView ImageView ImageView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
There's only one way to meet our energy needs without inconveniencing someone, somewhere, and that's to invest in conserving the energy in the first place. Tough to justify doing that when there's little to no personal payback on that investment, though. Energy's STILL too cheap.
All other forms of energy generation inconvenience people at very least, and kill people prematurely at worst. The windmills don't kill folks. The odd bird, perhaps.
Don't want to live near one? Don't live near one. Or move. Unfortunately, I don't have the choice to move to somewhere not polluted by the mercury and particulate matter from the coal-fired power plants. That's the way the atmosphere works...
While it remains cheaper to burn coal to make electricity than to generate it via wind, we'll know that coal isn't being priced properly. People that are not burning it are being forced to pay for some of its real cost.
Wind is no salvation. It's part of the solution, though. Without solving the economics which make it "free of charge" to dump sh*t into the atmosphere that we all have to breathe, there IS no technological solution to the energy generation problem.
As to the other poster's question about what to do with all the free natural gas I could consume? If it were sweet natural gas, I'd build an NG liquefaction plant and a garage doing LNG conversions for my neighbours' vehicles. You'd still have to pay the excise, but with the feedstock free of charge you'd make out like a freakin' bandit selling it for fuel- and be doing the world a favour at the same time. Fortunately the local grid will pay you market price for any electricity you dump back to the grid, so that would be an easier option.
Good summary... which is why so many other developed nations are starting to tax carbon emissions. Of course we'll be last.
Why? Does the fed gov need more money?
Yeah, in fact the fed gov does need more money, but that's not the point.
You are turning this into a political post.
I happen to disagree strongly about the idea of carbon taxes, but we can discuss that in the tavern.
I am always mystified when people object to them based on visual pollution. These same folks don't seem to mind cell phone towers with their flashing lights or coal fired power plants with their bleching pollution, or any of countless other man-made obstructions which they have grown accustomed to.
jt8
"These same folks don't seem to mind cell phone towers with their flashing lights"Where have you been living.Do a google on - cell phone tower protest -And most cell phone towers don't have flashing lights. They are too low to require them.And many of the cell phones are disguised as trees, flag poles, church steeples, etc.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQYan_-CTQ or coal fired power plants with their bleching pollution, or any of countless other man-made obstructions which they have grown accustomed to. "Do a google on - coal electric plant protest -
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
And many of the cell phones are disguised as trees, flag poles, church steeples, etc. LOL, The camo they use cracks me up every time I see it!
Some strange future geometric tree for sure.
LOL, The camo they use cracks me up every time I see it!Some strange future geometric tree for sure.
There are tall camo palm trees in Los Angeles, with antennae on top. Plastic covered poles, I'm guessing.
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LOL. Now I'm gonna have to post a photo of one of the plastic palms. They're kind of like fake fire plugs for dogs.
And many of the cell phones are disguised as trees, flag poles, church steeples, etc.
That must be a left/right coast thing. They don't conceal them hereabouts. Unless they're concealed them as large, communications towers.
jt8
We it depends on how much people protest about the placement.But I would not be surprised to find that within you area that there is not at least one that is in a church steeple or on top of a couple of story commercial building with some kind of screenig or facade around it.But for those kind, unlike the fake trees, you would never know it..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"And many of the cell phones are disguised as trees, flag poles, church steeples, etc."Well, that explains why I saw a guy holding a church steeple up to his ear yesterday. :)BruceT
Just passed on of those yesterday between Midland and San Angelo.
It's new. Wasn't there just a few months ago when I was through there.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
I guess the issue of putting up with noise, etc from windmills depends on your perspective and if you are getting paid for them to be on your land.
I know one guy who said he'd let them put a gas well in his living room if he was getting enough royalty. He said he'd just move and build a new house.
Looks like he may be moving soon.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. If he can't beat you he will just kill you." Steinbeck
Is this upstate NY?
Last summer we were RVing heading north towards the thousand islands. Seeing these giant windmills along the hill crest was impressive.
As much as I can see how some folks dislike them, I can't see how people think these are worse than having coal strip mining, a dam, or a nuclear plant in their backyard.
Yep the ones in the pictures are near lowville, NY
I live between watertown and the 1000 islandsView Image
Only 200? Come on out west dude ... see some real wind farms! 200 foot rotors on these babies ... wind ... you ain't got wind.
Everyone wants to claim the windiest spot in the world, now. It sure ain't Chicagee, either.
"It sure ain't Chicagee, either."
Chicago's "wind" is a people issue, not a meteorological thing.
Ditto Seattle's rain ... they only get 34 inches a year and rarely more than maybe a 1/2 inch at a time. Illinois ... they get some heavy rain in short periods! So can the south when hurricanes approach.
Lil slow ... I get it now ... OK. Waaaas up?
Just a little historical background. I think that it was at the 1906 Worlds Fair in Chicago that a visitor coined the phrase "windy city". Said "all the people in Chicago were blowhards" or something to that effect.
learn something every day .... interesting.
As a large windfarm was started between Roscoe, Texas and Inadale, Tx, this was being sent out a few years ago by those who were unhappy with a company called "Airtricity" and now its parent company E.on.
There is a hidden clause in their contracts... Even though the dishonest people at Airtricity leased the land for only ONE dollar an acre, they told the farmers that if no wind turbine was put on the land, the lease would end in four years.... THEY DIDN'T SAY there was a clause worded in a way that even a Judge and his lawyer couldn't see it that said one of the sections of the contract "Survives termination"... To keep clear air in front of their wind turbines and keep out other wind power companies, they locked up the land and up to 600ft above it for the next 28 years. While the wind turbines may pay up to $10,000 a year, this company only pays out $3,500 TOTAL for the 28 year lease. No tree lines, cell phone towers, or other things can be put on the land... The real kicker....they only pay that land owner when half of the wind turbines are erected and operational...
Like used car salesman, these slippery folks promise money, but to some unsuspecting land owners, they give very little....
Be very careful before you sign with a wind farm company...
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I grew up in Roscoe. I have not followed the wind farm issue very closely since I don't live there anymore, but I do know that the industry itself has been as close to a boon for the local economy as they have seen in many years.
The last time I was there was in 2002 and Roscoe was well on its way to becoming a ghost town. My Mom still had some properties in town when she passed away in October of this year. She had been trying to sell them for a few years with no luck, but we are now getting offers on all of them and have sold 2 of them. People are actually moving to Roscoe now instead of away from it.Trust your neighbors, but brand your calves.
TCW Specialists in Custom Remodeling.
apparently the most consistently windy spot on earth
where is this spot?, and are there any bodies of water there? Seen any kiteboarders around?
Seen any kiteboarders around?
The wind that's around the Abilene, Roscoe, Snyder area is 200'-300' above the ground, plus with the drying-up lakes....
you're out of luck............
Bill
I believe he was talking about the Tug Hill Plateau in upstate NY.
It is close to Lake Ontario. I live within an hour or so drive and have yet gone to see.
Well, we have some down in Atlantic city. Don't like them! Seems like a lump hammer to crush a pea that keeps moving.
Once again its the wrong way round. We should be looking at cutting energy use not making more.
This is just like the "oil problem" we need the more "mpg" for what we get. Where is the LED replacement lamp at low cost, the super insulated fridge, dimmer able quick start compact fluorescent lamp.
Lets have solar shingles with 25 year life span, installed at every re-roof. Government rebates to cover the cost difference. Or a company pay you to use your roof space.
Top half of most the windows in NY city tall buildings could go solar panel.
Windmills are as bad as fuel cell cars!! (cause of where the hydrogen comes from)
But its not in the interest of the power gen co. to reduce power use!
Interesting points, I agree the biggest one being to plain old cut energy use wherever we can. It reminds me of some of the BS TV shows I run across. Lets gut the house fill up a couple of dumpsters and then spend top dollar on "green" products, I hate that. "Oh but I donated the cabinets to habitat so I'm green", looking for a tax write off is more like it.
It cracks me up how many windmills there are around the country yet wind power accounts for less than 2% of the power produced. It just doesn't seem practical, thinking of the amount of energy to produce and install them the payback on one cant be to efficient.'
Id like to take a cue from grandparents coming up in the depression, waste not want not, thats what I think I and more people should be thinking.
But all of our damn kids will want their power too. It's a population issue, folks!
The only solution is to build more nukes and use the waste for building materials or food!
OB (12 kids and one in the oven.) ;-)
C'mon... just joking!
Edited 1/21/2009 7:41 pm ET by klhoush
Wind farms can trigger false alerts of dangerous weather, warned the National Weather Service, which said the massive blades show up on Doppler radar as a violent storm or even a tornado. Weather radar operates by detecting motion and can filter out structures, including the 200-feet wind tower but not the rotating blades. "If you take a glance and then all of a sudden you see red, you might issue an incorrect warning as a result," NWS science and operation officer Dave Zaff told the Associated Press.
http://www.csindy.com/colorado/stranger-than-fiction/Content?category=1064385
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ther was a report a fews back about windmills stopping the Jet Stream. The report was debunked! Close one!
It seems if this might be true, the weather service will be well aware of the locations of major wind farms and simply take a closer look at the information before issuing an altert.
no wind no power!
If the wind isn't blowering their is no power and when it is blowing their is no way to store it.
My brother-in law is a peson who throws switches to transfer power all over the country. He says his job will get to the point of impossible because of wind mills.
Living near windmill farms is not very pleasing, they can cause migranes and other deseases, even heart problems or panic attacts, i wouldn't recommand it
Renewable energy, mate.