Hi all,
Just wanted to check in with fellow GC’s and ask how many of you have
hung up the tool belt and are truly Contractors?
I’m still doing the contracting and practically everything else from foundation on up to the roof with the exception of electric, HVAC and plumbing. I usually have a couple guys working with me but don’t trust them to do a really good job by themselves.
I mostly do small additions with interior remodeling. Seems like there
is a lot of work here in my area and I’m wondering about how I make the switch to hanging up the tool belt or even if I should.
So, thought I’d ask some of you to share your stories about making that jump from contractor/carpenter to contractor.
Thank you,
Tom
Replies
Tom,
My intention is not disrespect.
If you have a strong lead, it would only be a control problem. If you dont have a strong lead, then you arent paying enough, or compensating in some way.
Employees stay for many reasons, as well as leave. Vacations, holidays, sick time, profit share... kindness.
Control is another issue totally. Do you always drive? Do you watch the movies that your wife wants, and feel ok about it? Do you always eat the same stuff?
-zen
Yeah, I did that in 1989. After 10 yrs. as carpenter , foreman , superintendent , ect. I decided to go out on my own as a GC. No fun!!
You spend a lot of time in your truck supervising , your reputation is only as good as your worst employee , paper work and desk time is now your lot in life. In order to support you own life style , you have to take on more [or different] work than you are used to , and worst of all... you no longer have the tired satisfaction of a days work well done[however you do get to feel that vicariously].
So I went back to work with the tools , I enjoy every every day like it's the first day on a new site!!
Every once in a while I consider returning to desk duty , but reject it out of hand[the only exception that I made was to biuld my own house]
Tom, I'm in the process right now of getting rid of my tools. The main reason I'm dropping them is because they can't make me as much money as I want. I spent the last few years backing away from the tools and turning the day to day operations over to Frank, who was the field manager. He did fine until last season when the bottom dropped out of our framing business.
I don't see the business ever returning to anything that remotely resembled what I used to do.
It took me a long time to get over my ideas that I was an important part of the crew. The first year that I started staying away, I continuously checked on the progress and quality. After about a year, I really didn't bother to even do that anymore. During that time, I've spent a great deal of time exploring different things, attending seminars, studying different business models, goofing off, thinking...
I'm the kind of guy that follows my thoughts. If I think it's time to step away, then I step away. I might not have had a good enough plan, but planning anything other than a rough frame has always been my weakspot.
My suggestion is to figure out your plan and go for it, since you obviously are thinking about it. If you think you're going to miss the field work, then hire a General manager. IF you wan't to be the general manager, then hire a field superintendent.
Get the book First, Break all The Rules. This will teach you to be a better manager. Good managers trust his people. You don't sound like your doing that.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I dont think I want to hang it up. I've been told/warned that I could never have a business partner because I cant/wont give up any control. I like being on site and working but sometimes I wonder if my time couldnt be better spent.
I've also been told be others that they've made more money with a pen and a check book than a hammer. I think if I ever do hang up the belt that would be the reason why.
"but don't trust them to do a really good job by themselves."
That line says a lot. If you really don't trust your employees, then you better keep the tool belt. You'll drive yourself crazy worrying about what's happening at the jobsite when you aren't there. - lol
very simple answer for me.....the older you get and the more swollen your hands get and the more your back hurts you let the youngin's do most of the "hard" work.
If you love building as I do.....you keep doing it or you'll die.
Be workin' smart, not hard (yeh sure....that'll be the day)
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
Andy, good to see you again. Yours is my line of thinking. If it's about the money, then go push a pen and drink your Malox. If you enjoy it, then do it. If you're doing it only for the money and because you think you're getting too old, I say think again. You can always downsize, you know..cut back. I too greet every day as if it were the first and the last, and am ever so glad I went back out on my own doing the small stuff. It's a big world out there and there's too many other fun things to do than wind up on the wrong side of the sod before your time. One's passion is another's poison.
Different strokes fer different folks but those of us with passion I think tend to lean towards the love of the craft no matter how good or bad it ends up in some peoples minds.....Bottom line is.if you love a person deep from your soul....or the work you do.....it only adds to the goodness of our world....its not just about........
Namaste'
BE well
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
I'm glad you're here Andy.
Hey everyone thank you for the responses so far.Let me respond to a few points/comments.To Zen - no I don't have a strong lead because I'm the lead
as well as the contractor. If I decide to make a change the first thing
would be to find/hire a strong lead and then see if I can find the work to keep him happy. I don't have a problem with giving up control as long as there is good communication between us. I've had too many people who
won't listen or be willing to talk over procedures.
To use your analogy, I'm happy letting someone else drive if they know how to drive safely and pay attention to what is going on around them.Jay - I'm glad you have found your way and rejected the desk. Maybe the only way I can find out is to try it.Blue Eyed Devil-
So does the business run pretty well at this point without your daily input? Do you spend your day answering phone calls, setting up subs,
ordering materials etc.MSA1- I think that's incredibly important to know about yourself.
I believe that I can give up some of that control.Dave - I guess that brings up another question. If I can find and pay for a good lead will I be comfortable giving up daily ops? I think so but finding that person is a big task in and of itself.Andy- Yeah, there are certain parts of building I get great satisfaction out of. I like working with most clients and getting their dreams to come to life. I like teaching some of the guys I have working for me ( not the bullheaded ones ). The part that gets to me is the wrapping up of the details at the end of the job. At that point I'm often just worn out and trying to get other jobs up and running.
Having a good punch list person who can address many different detail oriented items is pretty special I imagine.
One other tack I'm considering is hiring more subs. For instance we often will do our own drywall since these are small additions but hiring a sub for that would probably take the pressure off me and my helpers at that point in the project to start tying up punch list items.Or, running perhaps two projects at once and having subs take care of
foundation, drywall, maybe siding so we can do the other work.Jer- it's not about the love of money but more would sure be nice.Tim- I think there are contractors who have a love of what they do, but just came to the conclusion that to do their job well they had to
make a choice. Be a contractor or a carpenter and contractor.I would imagine most of us have at least looked at David Gerstels,
"Running a Successful Construction Company".
One of his big points is hanging up the tool belt.Anyway, thanks for helping me knock some ideas around about this!Tom
if you give up the tools, then you give up the right to make contracts to perform the labor. Take two persons, A and B. Person A is a carpenter who works with tools. He can make a contract to perform labor. Person B is not a carpenter and does not work with tools. How would B fulfill a contract to perform labor? There is a difference between making a contract to perform carpentry labor and a contract to employ the men who make the contracts to perform carpentry labor. When a property owner performs carpentry labor on his own property, he does so in the capacity of a mechanic. When a property owner contracts directly with mechanics to perform carpentry labor, the property owner is the carpentry contractor. When an agent is employed to contract with mechanics to perform carpentry labor, such agent is the carpentry contractor and the property owner is liable for the acts of his agent. Virtually all mechanics' lien laws state that all mechanics shall have a lien for labor whether the labor is furnished at the instance of the owner or his agent and that all contractors and subcontractors are agents of the owner.
BLAHBLAHBLAH I thought you went away.
Robert,Great to have you back.I also think contracts are a very important part of our job.Good to see you agree.
Jon Blakemore
oh, my gosh... they let you out ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They HAD to ...
he never signed the ...
wait ...
here it comes ...
almost ....
CONTRACT!
ahh ha ha ha ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Instead of finding a lead carpenter, what about developing a lead carpenter from one of the carpenters that you have now??? Or finding a carpenter that you could develop into a lead. Might take a year or two......or more, but that could also allow for a gradual transition in you hanging up your belt.
m2akita
M2,I think thats a reasonable path that is worth considering.
I like the slow transistion, which is probably how it would have to
happen anyway. One thing I have never done is to put out a call for carpenters in the paper or in the folder here on Breaktime for work and workers wanted.
I have pretty much taken on people who I just come across, someone who knows someone,that kind of thing.Might be interesting to just try putting out a call and see who turns up. Doing it the way I have been doing it makes for a pretty limited pool of potentials.Thanks,Tom
Were not all carpenter contractors. There are many that hold state licenses that are not really professed carps.
A contractor is a business man that has nothing to to with being a carpenter. If it does , then youre fixin to teach me somthing .
Now you done.As soon as I read that I though of R.H. and now he has shwown up.
Its still not my fault. [walkin away shakin head]
Timothy
So, thought I'd ask some of you to share your stories about making that jump from contractor/carpenter to contractor.
I was a lousy carpenter, I have no other choice.
The funny thing is, when I become a GC, they all thought I was the greatest carpenter ever . Some times it takes a move for others to realize your skill that you never really master.
Oh well.
I hung up my belt four years ago and crossed the battle lines and went to work for the local building dept. Best decision I ever made! I was a 95% guy meaning I did almost all of the work in my jobs (additions, remodelings, etc) But after building my own home a few years back, had the opportunity to make the change and glad I did.
I miss the work a little but still do stuff on my own home each weekend so I still have a good excuse to buy new tools!
What I did obviously isn't for everyone but after 14 years my business was stagnant and I didn't have the capital to grow it into something more. I'm now making more money and actually only work about 40-50 hours per week so I'm happy.
Just my two cents of course...
Mike