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Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

hearing loss

Shep | Posted in General Discussion on November 15, 2003 01:21am

An older carpenter friend was telling me today of his recent visit to the ENT doctor. It seems he has quite a bit of hearing loss. This really didn’t surprise me, since I’ve never seen him wear any kind of hearing protection. His next step is to be fitted for hearing aids.

           My dad, who was a carpenter for close to 50 years, also had significant hearing loss. The family could tell by the volume level he liked to watch TV at. WE could be in the next room and comfortably listen to the TV, but he said there was nothing wrong with his hearing.

         I was wondering how many of you use hearing protection on a regular basis, and what kind. I try to be good about it, and usually wear a band-type hearing protector around my neck while I work. I’ll admit that I sometimes don’t bother when I only have a few cuts to make. I intend to be more careful in the future, because I know I already have some hearing loss, and would like to minimize any more.

       Sometimes ( I think ) hearing is taken for granted. We may lose a finger or eye or something else,  but hearing loss can’t be seen.   I think that , in general, most carpenters currently working are more careful about protecting themselves than those in the past, but we still need to be reminded every so often that we do have a ( relatively ) dangerous occupation.

Reply

Replies

  1. csnow | Nov 15, 2003 01:39am | #1

    What?

  2. PhillGiles | Nov 15, 2003 01:44am | #2

    As a complete sidebar, has anyone else noticed that a very high proportion of dogs that spend time around a even a home shop let alone a commercial shop or on a jobsite are hearing impaired ?

    Sad PS, along the way I've informed several neighbours that their dogs had a hearing problem. I remember at least 2 coming back and telling me that had been confirmed by a vet. Amazing how well a dog can compensate for a hearing loss to the point where many don't even notice it.

    .

    Phill Giles

    The Unionville Woodwright

    Unionville, Ontario

    1. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 02:01am | #8

      "their dogs had a hearing problem. I remember at least 2 coming back and telling me that had been confirmed by a vet."

      It is easy to test in a dog.  If they don't hear your command, they might have a hearing probelm.  Or a discipline problem.  If they don't hear the Kibble hitting the food dish, then it is definitely a hearing problem.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

      1. PhillGiles | Nov 15, 2003 10:12am | #24

        It's a little more complicated David, one good sign is the the dog's owner has sub-consciously learned to always gives a hand-signal along with the verbal command - the test is to see if a) the dog will respond to the hand-signal only and the verbal command with the owner standing perfectly still..

        Phill Giles

        The Unionville Woodwright

        Unionville, Ontario

        1. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 03:22pm | #25

          "sub-consciously learned to always gives a hand-signal along with the verbal command "

          Oh, I am very conscious of every hand signal for every command.  Because there are times when you don't want to shout ("leave it!" for the new baby of nervous parents) or can't be heard due to distance or background noise.

          Is was interesting to watch our son's vocabulary progress through the animal species.  At maybe 7 months, he understood as many words as the dog (20).  By about 10 months he was past Koko the gorilla's (400).  At 3.5 years, he's at about 5,000 so he'll pass me in about 10 years.

          Running the can opener from another room would also seem pretty definitely.  For a human, would the test be the sound of ice cream hitting the bowl?David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

          1. Shep | Nov 15, 2003 06:18pm | #28

            David -- in 10 years he'll be a teenager and won't hear anything you say. It won't matter how many words he understands.

    2. armin | Nov 15, 2003 04:05am | #17

      Phil,

      Must be so, my first German Shepherd had super keen hearing, spent a good portion of her time hanging out in the shop. Developed a real hearing loss later on in life, by the time I realized it  was to late. Now I keep my dogs out of the shop when the machines are running. Tried using marshmallows for ear plugs but they just ate the darn things.

  3. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 01:50am | #3

    I agree hearing protection is much more common now than 20 years ago.  I usually use the full ear-muff style.   I've thought about the active noise reduction ones the pilots and shooters use.  Let's the conversation through but stop the loud noises.  Would also be nice on commercial plane flights

    When chainsawing, I've got Pelton's hardhat, face screen, and ear muffs combination.  Convenient because when you need one, you need all three.  And once you hit the kill switch, you can take it all off at once  and can't lose it - it's big and orange.

    I'm unclear about any relationships between age at exposure and eventual hearing loss.  For skin cancer, the early exposures are bad.  Once you start getting them carved off, you should of course be careful, but you should have started 50 years before.  Anyone know about hearing loss?

    David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
    1. csnow | Nov 15, 2003 01:59am | #7

      I read recently that percussive noise may actually cause more damage than constant noise.  This would mean that even folks who regularly use ear protection for obvious noise like power tools may be unexpectely losing hearing when they use nail guns, or whack things with hammers.

    2. User avater
      CapnMac | Nov 15, 2003 05:00am | #19

      Anyone know about hearing loss?

      Both direct and cumulative, for hearing.  Two factors, volume and intensity.  At a certain decibel level, the cells sensitive to sound vibrations die.  At a certain intensity, they will be progressively damaged.  That damage will add up, over time; either one.

      And it can be counter intuitive, too.  An 18" barreled .223 is worse for your hearing than a snub nose .44 mag.  This is because there is the additional pressure of the noise from transonic bullet out of the .223 to deal with.  Both will make you deaf, without protection, the .223 is just a bit faster (and less noticable, too).

      Circular saw in the field compares to a shaper table in the shop about the same way.  This is why OSHA prett much will not let you have radios in a shop setting any more--they have to be abovethe machinery noise to be heard, and they discourage hearing protection.

      Tintinitus is no fun at all--trust me.  The only thing worse are when you have nerve damage at certain frequencies.  Anything hits that frequency, and it's like having sinkers pounded into your head.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      1. Shep | Nov 15, 2003 06:09am | #20

            Another thought -- if you lose your hearing do you still have to listen to the voices in your head?

        1. caseyr | Nov 15, 2003 08:31am | #21

          Yeah, along with a lot of other noises...

          Going deaf definitely is not like just having the rest of the world go silent.  As the external sounds disappear, the brain makes up for it with all sorts of hisses, pops, and other sounds.  Some people have found tinnitus to be absolutely devistating.  The medicos have had some luck retraining some people to be able to ignore their tinnitus while others it has not helped.  I have a lot of tinnitus, but fortunately it hasn't succeeded in driving me completely nuts (I think that was done by dealing with people...)

          What is thought to happen with noise induced hearing loss (by far the most common in our society) is that the noise energy damages the hair cells of the inner ear (cochlia) that respond to that particular frequency and all hair cells that respond to frequences above that.  Thus most people in our society have some degree of hearing loss at the higher frequencies and it gets worse with age and continuing noise exposure.  Hearing textbooks have traditionally given times that one can be allowed to be exposed to certain noise intensities, but the current thinking is that noise damage accumulates even below those exposure levels. 

          Any time you have a ringing in your ears after being exposed to noise means that you have had some damage to your hair cells.  Most people will not notice the first 20 db or so of hearing loss and can function fairly normally (except for failing to hear the various noises reported by their girl friends) at up to 30db or so.  However, as hearing loss accumulates, there comes a point where some things become "muffled" as the highs are lost and certain sounds, such as can't be distinguished (such as an "s" or a "t"). 

          The irony of hearing aids is that the problem was caused by loud noises, but what do hearing aids do but make sounds louder.  Nonetheless, good hearing aids help most people with normal, high frequency hearing loss.  They are not so helpful for us that have different types of hearing loss.

          Most of the soft spongy ear plugs generally have a slightly higher noise protection rating (or whatever it is called)  than do the standard "headphone" style or "earmuff" type hearing protector (about 23db for the ear plugs to around 20db for the earmuffs that I have). 

          My hearing loss is not the standard issue noise induced hearing loss but is the relatively rare autoimmune induced hearing loss.  My loss started in the lower frequencies and no hearing aids were particularly good at boosting the low frequencies.  However, loud noise still causes my ears to ring so I have to wear hearing protection and for working with really loud equipment, I wear both the ear plugs and the ear muffs. 

          I follow the hearing research fairly closely and while they have found that hair cells can regenerate in lower cold-blooded animals and in some birds, they have yet to achieve regeneration in higher mammals.  While the research is promosing that they will one day find a means to regenerate hair cells in humans, I will be long out of here by the time they find it and test it out.

          http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/hair_cell.html

          So in the mean time, stick it in your ear - the plugs that is...

          Edited 11/15/2003 12:38:53 AM ET by CaseyR

          1. AlanRoberson | Nov 15, 2003 08:45am | #22

            I put my earplugs in when I start the day and only take them out for lunch. Don't like listening to myself chewing. My coworkers claim I do this so I can ignore whomever I like. I like the yellow cylindrical plugs, not the orange molded kind - they hurt my ears after awhile.

            I've heard that the bones around your ears transmit some sound as well, so I supose there are some situations when you'd need earmuffs as well/insteadof.

          2. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 10:02am | #23

            Casey: Thanks for the informative post.  -David

          3. User avater
            CapnMac | Nov 15, 2003 11:22pm | #31

            (about 23db for the ear plugs to around 20db for the earmuffs that I have).

            Wow.  The "Mickey Mouse" muffs issued by the Navy for flight deck use are rated 25.  My Silencio Magnums are rated at 27.  I won't buy foam plugs unless they rated at least 28 (and I pay extra for the EAR brand 30s). 

            I like doubling up, especially if I know it will be a loud environment (chop/table saw in the garage; military rifle match).  I also have several of the military-issue carriers (I ditch the MilSpec vinyl for foam plugs).  This means they are convenient and a reminder at the same time.

            I'm keen to keep the hearing I have, and I'll take steps to keep it.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      2. BradR | Nov 16, 2003 03:57pm | #35

        What a timely thread. I have recently noticed the ringing I hear when I lie down at night or when I get some rare quiet at home has gone from occasional to constant. I thought that wearing earmuffs when I route , plane or hammer drill would help(it probably has). Yet I still fire 5 or 10 clips of nails from a finish,framing or brad gun daily(or more) without protection. Anyone know much else about tinnitus ? help dealing ? Today I will load up on foam earplugs and start looking into the custom jobs. Years of loud music hasn't helped me either, but I have hope for years of less loud music that I can still appreciate.

        1. Ruby | Nov 16, 2003 04:19pm | #36

          You may want to go to a specialist and be evaluated. They have hearing aids that will mask the noise in your ears and medication for that. A local fellow has it very bad, so bad he can't sleep and that is what he did and it helps, he said.

          Sadly, he caught Hanta virus, that mice carry and is in critical condition in the hospital, so I can't ask him about it for you. He is 66 years old and pneumonia has set in. We hope for the best.

          Tinnitus, if it progresses, is a serious condition. There is an association for that and it may have a web site and a forum where you can ask your questions. Do a Google search for it. Got to run or I would do it for you.

        2. caseyr | Nov 18, 2003 07:46pm | #43

          The tinnitus clinic at Oregon Health and Sciences has a very general information page at:

          http://www.ohsu.edu/ohrc/tinnitusclinic/factSheet.html#is%20tinnitus%20interfering%20with%20my%20hearing

          You might start there. 

          The American Tinnitus has several informational web pages including the treatment page at:

          http://www.ata.org/about_tinnitus/consumer/treatment.html

          There are a host of tinnitus related web sites, many of them wanting to sell you tinnitus masking products which supposedly "mask" the tinnitus with other sounds.  This is a legitimate therapy, but I have no idea how many tinnitus suffers would actually be helped by such commercial products.

          1. caseyr | Nov 18, 2003 07:56pm | #44

            Many of the otolarangologists (always fun to pronounce, aka ear, nose, and throat doctors) I have seen lately put on a big push to sell me cochlear implants.  From what I can gather, they would allow me to hear just about as well as I do now, maybe just slightly better.  The profoundly deaf who have received them tend to like them but say they still can't hear all that well over the telephone.  The cost - about $30,000 to $50,000 per implant.  Whereas medical insurance typically won't pay for hearing aids (a few pay a modest amount) they do pay for cochlear implants.  But with my 20% payment portion, that still comes to $6 to $10 K for what is probably marginal improvement.  Plus, I really don't like the idea of someone drill a hole in my skull and poking an electrode into my inner ear.  There is some debate about whether this destroys any residual hearing that one may have in that ear.  Thus if they do come up with some miracle elixer to rejuvenate all those wiped out hair cells, who knows if that ear with the implant would be able to respond.  Still, it's something to consider if the hearing goes bad enough. 

          2. User avater
            BossHog | Nov 18, 2003 09:34pm | #45

            I don't recall that anyone has mentioned it so far, but.....

            I think part of my hearing loss is from loud music. I suspect that applies to some of you others as well?Great strides in human progress are being made by men who delve deeply into the imagination, then through the medium of hard work, bring fancy into reality. [Robert K. Patterson]

          3. Shep | Nov 18, 2003 11:25pm | #46

                    Growing up in the late 60's, that's the only way to listen to music. I still have to crank up the volume on a few songs. Maybe I should be wearing hearing protection and just feel the bass rattling my fillings.

          4. NwWiKlutz | Nov 21, 2003 03:09am | #47

            Loud music...it actually is painful to sit in the front row at a bar with live music these days, though in the day, I rocked , darnit.

            My own hearing loss is such that I have difficulty when someone is talking at an angle to me, instead of face on. Maybe this is because I read lips subconsciously (however you spell it.) In any event, loud music, explosions, loud tools and airplanes have taken their tolls.

  4. TrimButcher | Nov 15, 2003 01:56am | #4

    Good topic.  Despite my incredibly young (ha!) age (39), I have hearing loss in my left ear, along with an overactive ear drum (so even when the voice is loud enough, I can't always discern what is said).  The initial loss is not due to work, but I think it is deteriorating further with time and abuse. 

    Like you, I try to be good, but sometimes fall for the "just two seconds" worth of noise.  Same goes with protecting my eyes...yikes!

    I prefer the little foam plugs.  To make them easier to wear, I keep a half dozen pairs in tiny plastic boxes around at all times, including one in my tool belt.  They're cheap, they can be washed, they're extremely effective (even more effective than many expensive headphones), and I find them comfortable enough to wear for long periods of time.  The key though is availability, because then you don't have an excuse.  I have the corded ones too, but find they get in the way if they're not at home in my (ear) canals.

    I get envious of people getting their eyesight corrected with laser surgery.  Unfortunately, the eardrum seems to defied Medical advancement.

    Regards,

    Tim

    1. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 02:12am | #11

      "I get envious of people getting their eyesight corrected with laser surgery.  Unfortunately, the eardrum seems to defied Medical advancement."

      Yeah, correcting a lens is realatively easy whether with glasses, contacts, lasers, or scalpels.

      But just increasing the volume of all sounds is only part of the problem.  The ear/brain are remarkable in their ability to selectively amplify and focus on part of the spectrum.  Consider that someone can whisper to you on a Manhatten street corner and be understood.  The signal to noise ratio is not bad, it's horrible.   Yet possible with good hearing.  But when a hearing aid is part of the process, it doesn't have the selectivity needed.  A few new styles (very expensive) do.  A simple band-pass filter like a graphic equalizers in a stereo system is easy.  But should you tune it for women's voices, men's voices, warning sirens, etc?  Identifying the particular frequencies of interest and preferentially amplifying those isn't done as well electronically as biologically.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

    2. csnow | Nov 15, 2003 03:13am | #13

      "Unfortunately, the eardrum seems to defied Medical advancement."

      Not so fast!  I heard (ha!) a report last week that researchers had succeeded in growing so called 'hair cells' (the things that get damaged from noise exposure) from stem cells.  A method of repair may be forthcoming!  That is, if we can keep the anti-technology kooks from blocking stem cell research.

      1. Shep | Nov 15, 2003 03:26am | #14

              Thanks to all for replying to this thread. At the same time my friend was telling me about his hearing loss, he was also talking about running the leaf blower all last Sunday. I said something about there might be some connection. 

              Does anybody know if they make a hearing aid that cuts out at high decibles, like the electronic head muff style?

      2. DavidThomas | Nov 15, 2003 03:53am | #16

        "researchers had succeeded in growing so called 'hair cells'"

        What's the big deal?  I've got no problem growing more hair in (and on) my ears with increasing age.  One of many body parts for which, "everything gets bigger, hairier, and closer to the ground". 

        But I think you are right.  Some stem cell / cloning technology that puts childhood hearing components back into your head seem the most likely high-performance solution.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

  5. pixburd | Nov 15, 2003 01:57am | #5

    Use those foam plugs ALL the time.  Every tool box has a couple of those little grey film cases with plugs inside.  I offer them to those I work with, RARELY does anyone take them.

  6. OneofmanyBobs | Nov 15, 2003 01:58am | #6

    In the shop or when using something loud like a ramset or router, I wear protectors.  Most other times I don't.  I use Peltor electronic protectors.  They have a microphone and speaker.  You can hear everything at normal volume.  When sound gets too loud, they electronically mute the sound down.  They're expensive but worth it.  You can still hear the machinery to decide if it's running right and can hear people talk without taking them off.  I'm losing just a little hearing now on one side, but I think that's age rather than abuse.

  7. mike4244 | Nov 15, 2003 02:04am | #9

    I'm in the same boat as your friend, wore a hearing aid for two months. What I bought was the throwaway type that lasts about 5 weeks. I stopped wearing it because it hurt my ear after three hours. One of these days I will get fitted for a good one that is fitted for my ear canal. It was worth $39.95 just to see if a hearing aid would help. It did help a lot. Working as a commercial carpenter for 42 years you are subject  to a lot of noise. For the last ten years I wear the earmuff type in my shop or sometimes the foam type that fits in your ear.

     I am glad to hear that you are concerned about your hearing and did something about it, wish I was that smart when I was younger.

    mike

  8. Mooney | Nov 15, 2003 02:08am | #10

    I ruined my ears somewhere along the way. Drummer in a rock band , and others. Bird hunting , boom boom . Been doing this work all my life and before i was old enough father was a single dad on the job.

    To answer your question , I have two hearing aids and dont wear them. Im married and silence is golden . I dont wear protection.

    Tim Mooney

  9. Piffin | Nov 15, 2003 03:10am | #12

    I first noticed hearing loss when I was about twenty YO. I had a bad fever for a few days and the hearing in one ear was always kind of 'soft' after that.

    Over the years, shooting, sawing, and jackhammers took their toll though. About fifteen years ago, I was starting to notice that I didn't always understand what women were saying quite as well as I should. ( Not meant to be funny. It turns out that the tests showed that I had lost some in the higher frequencies where female voices range. )

    After learning that, I startted using muffs when around high decibles, and it hasn't gotten too much worse since then, tho my wife might tell you different

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. Treetalk | Nov 15, 2003 03:34am | #15

      My girlfriend says Ive got some hearing loss because I fail to hear all she says but some how I can still hear a hickory nut fall an acre away.Must be selective loss.Ive used what what Gemplers calls a "jazz band" which has earplugs attached to a plastic band and they definetly reduce rthe noise.Used to use the foam plugs which work great too but would always get lost or filthy.The "band is always around my neck.

      I think the circular saw is the worse, then the portable planer. Timbering I use the Peltor helmet..i like the 3way protection.Earmuffs are also a barrier from FO's entering ur ears.Good friend of mine lost hearing in one ear when a lil twig just jabbed his ear canal while walking thru thick brush.

      My dad finally explained to me why hes hard of hearing in his right ear.He said when he was a copilot in N.Atlantic in WW2 on a seaplane the prop was only 9"! away from ur head seperated by thin skin of meatal.And he said most military aircraft then didnt use mufflers of any type.

      Smokie my dog hangs all around the job site and someytimes I wonder about hearing protection for him.He does have floppy ears which kinda cover his ears but hes definetly not noise shy.Even when he was a puppy hed love laying under the planer and try to catch the shavings; doent even mind the Plaslode but does find someplace else if i get out the Remington PA nailer.Doent seem to mind real guns tho.

      1. Piffin | Nov 15, 2003 04:16am | #18

        I see by your screen name that you can hear a tree talk, so your hearing must be pretty good!

        I can hear a truck comingf in the driveway as it turns in a quarter mile away, and have a 50/50 shot at knowing which truck it is. I turn the bass sound down and the treble up on the tunes.

        We have a dog that I swear is going deaf based on how she listens to us anymore, but she can hear a can of cat food being opennned from the next room just fine. I know it isn't the odor because if it is corn or beans, she still comes a running to the sound of a can openning.

        Pavlovian ESP?

        ;).

        Excellence is its own reward!

  10. florida | Nov 15, 2003 03:58pm | #26

    30 years of shooting, saws, nail guns have ruined mu hearing. My wife insisted I see an ENT doctor about 7 years ago. He did the hearing test and then told me I was in construction. When I asked how he knew he told me that most of his construction patients had the exact same hearing loss curve. Since then I have become very protective of what's left of my hearing. The only protection that works is whatever you will faithfully wear. I use AOSafety, http://www.aosafety.com/diy/html/90586.htm , corded ear plugs because they are always handy. I put them around my neck under my shirt every morning and take them off every night and I do it 7 days a week. It's a simple matter to stick them in my ears, they aren't uncomfortable or hot and they are always there. I don't even use a drill without wearing them. I also give them to anyone who will take a pair. HD has them for $2.29 a pair but Northern will sell them to you for $1.79 a pair if you buy 4 pairs at a time. You can buy other brands from any industrial safety supplier for even less. They are washable and ususally last me 2 or 3 months before I lose them.

    1. Adrian | Nov 15, 2003 04:16pm | #27

      This is serious stuff....FHB in one of the recent issues had a little report on some new findings....I did a bit more research based on that, and the threat is real for anyone working in construction or manufacturing, and it's not fixable.

      I just had a pair of molded plugs custom made; I saw them being used in a furniture plant I was visiting.....all the key people had them, and it was exactly what I'd been looking for without knowing it. They offer exceptional protection (the website doesn't show the chart, I don't think, but one of their brochures shows the test results....way above any of the other options available, and consistent). They're not cheap (cost me $127 Cdn, but they last five years....a decent pair of muffs is $40-50, and they wear out on me. I also can't teach wearing them), but I'm a convert. You can get them vented, so you can hear normal conversation even when the machines are ging full out. They also make them unvented, for more protection, and you can get a version that accepts radios (the walky-talky kind). Different manufacturers; mine come fro Custom Protect Ear http://www.protectear.com/cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

  11. NwWiKlutz | Nov 15, 2003 11:03pm | #29

    I worked with an older carpenter named Harold who had very bad hearing...I finally talked him into going to see a doctor, who eventually fitted him with a hearing aide.

    One day we were talking and he was going on and on about his new hearing aide:"Man, this is the best ! I can hear my wife singing in the kitchen, I can hear the kids outside playing !This is the best hearing aide ever!"

    I replied :"That's great, Harold, what kind is it?"

    He looked at his watch and said "Quarter to three."

    1. xMikeSmith | Nov 15, 2003 11:19pm | #30

      rifles.. shotguns... artillery 155's.... pile drivers... ram sets... saws, hammers..

       it's a wonder i can hear anything...

       one- on- one is ok.. unless they're a mumbler or are talking away from me..

       but a group ? ... i just smile a lot....Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. Piffin | Nov 16, 2003 04:19pm | #37

        Exactly same thing here.

        Why is it that all those words mumblethemselvestogetherandgetsohardtoseparatewhenyouareinagroupwhereeveryoneistalkingatonce?.

        Excellence is its own reward!

        1. User avater
          Mongo | Nov 16, 2003 06:46pm | #38

          When I was in the USAF, one of the jets that I flew had a god-awful high-pitched sound coming from the left-rear corner of the cockpit. From a hydraulic pump.

          Sure enough, despite ear plugs and a helmet, the sound slowly went away over the years. And it wasn't because the replaced the hydraulic pump with a quieter one.

          I had a set of ear plugs like Davids, they worked great. Sadly, they disappeared sometime over the years. Never did have another set made.

          Now I use cylindrical yellow foam ear plugs plus a set of mickey mouse ear muffs.

          I have noticed the loss, mostly at the conversational level when there is a bit of background noise mixed in.

          More than missing out on conversation, I really miss the subtle nuances of music. If I tweak the equalizer to make the music sound better to me, it sounds absolutely horrible to others in the room.

          Save your hearing when you still have it.

          The most ironic comment that I've heard over and over is something along the lines of "I don't need hearing protection, my hearing is still fine."

          Huh?

  12. User avater
    BossHog | Nov 16, 2003 01:48am | #32

    I also have hearing loss. Mine is from riding on tractors when I was a kid, operating them later on, shooting, and various kinds of machinery.

    Hearing protection was all but unheard of when I was a kid. No one used it until I was 10 or 12. A lot of the damage was done by then, and I was too bull-headed to use it after that for a long time.

    I made an appointment to go get my hearing tested once. They ended up saying it wasn't bad enough to warrant a hearing aid yet. But I still have trouble picking up conversation. I often have to stop people and ask them to look at me and talk slower. Really stinks.

    In the last couple of weeks I have seen the ads for the Wonder Bra.
    Is that really a problem in this country? Men not paying enough attention to women's breasts? - Jay Leno

    1. IronHelix | Nov 16, 2003 05:46am | #33

      I too have lost a lot of my hearing by my vocations required tools!

      The loss is centered around the same frequencies at which the tools run and howl.

      I was a verbal comedy show as my mind would fill in the blanks on the parts of the conversation that my ears did not hear, therefore my responses had absolutely nothing to  do with what was being said.

      The turning point came when there was a major highway accident and the emergency vehicles screamed past the front of the building where I worked. Soon I went inside and pulled some estimates from my desk and went to the copier to make prints. 

      I was concentrating on the duplicating, when my partner (and wife) said something that amazed me and caught my immediate attention.  I turned around and walked to the back side of her desk with my back to the secretary and said to her.."Right NOW!

      She looked at me and said...What do you think I said?  I replied....You asked me if I wanted to go f# # k!     No,  she replied, I said.. There goes another firetruck!

      Our secretary almost dies laughing...had to call 911.

      I now have a pair of digital aids that only amplify the areas where my loses are in each ear.  There are three levels of usage...normal, muted for background noise, and a "bionic ear" mode for jobsite conditions with a 90Db cutout......

      At regular check-ups they can be reprogrammed for additional degenerative loss or for different levels of usage criteria...super!!!!

      Very good....except for the $2500 tag on each one!    Hearing protection is cheap compared to this..... Muff-Up or pay-up!

      ..............Iron Helix

      1. Ruby | Nov 16, 2003 09:22am | #34

        I was completely deaf for 11 months as a two year old, for what they tell me and regained about 50% in one ear and a little more in the other.

        Again at 13 years old for six weeks, that time regaining even less.

        Was fitted with hearing aids some 20 years ago and they only augmented the noise, didn't help with understanding. Also, all I could hear thru them outside was the wind blowing, loudly. Still use them when going to be around people.

        Firsts time I wore them, using the toilet in a public bathroom right after getting them fitted, it sounded like a waterfall! Had not heard it before that loud. Very embarrassing to think that others were hearing all the noise I was making, until I realized that others probably were used to hearing it and didn't think anything about it.

        I buy foam ear plugs that come in individual pair packages, 200 to the box, from http://www.gemplers.com They can be washed and reused a few times each pair. The ones I get are rated at 33 decibels. For shooting, earmuffs are better. In a pinch, a wad of about 1/4 or a Kleenex will do the trick.

        1. Shep | Nov 16, 2003 10:16pm | #39

          Ruby-- Sorry to hear about your hearing problems. I hope all is pretty well under control now. I agree,  Gempler's has a great supply of hearing protection, as well as other protective equipment. If you can't find something there,  it would be unusual.

          Edited 11/16/2003 2:17:53 PM ET by Shep

          1. Ruby | Nov 17, 2003 12:05am | #42

            I like your personal quote. Very appropriate:

            "A carpenter's epitaph- He stood plumb, now he's lying level."

            Compensating from medium hearing loss is easy if you don't have to interact with too many people. I think it is harder on those that get frustrated trying to get the hard of hearing's attention.

            One advantage is not having to go to jury duty. No one would like their case to depend on what jurors may hear well or may miss hearing.

            Driving a tractor some 400+ hours every summer and a dozer many more is hard on any ears. I didn't think how many hours people in the building trades spent with the noisy tools. Good that today we are aware of the need for protection.

            I wonder if being around continuous potent fumes hurt the smell discrimination of painters?

  13. User avater
    Sphere | Nov 16, 2003 10:43pm | #40

    Hey all..just remember to really keep those ears clean if you choose ANY type of "stick it in yer ear" protectors...compacted ear wax REALLY is ####pain and can cause as much damage as noise..even a minor compaction can be confused with actual hearing loss. Been there .

    Duane

    1. User avater
      CapnMac | Nov 16, 2003 11:42pm | #41

      compacted ear wax REALLY is ####pain

      And makes for a very unglamourous visit to the medic/doctor.  Besides the saline solution is always cold . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

    2. PhillGiles | Nov 21, 2003 03:21am | #48

      A couple of drops of mineral oil once or twice a week will slow down the hardening of the wax; you may still need to use a specialized wax removal product (like carbamide peroxide - I like the Murine kit as it comes with a ball syringe) occassionally to keep the ears clear..

      Phill Giles

      The Unionville Woodwright

      Unionville, Ontario

      1. mkbug | Nov 21, 2003 04:26am | #49

        I discovered the best way to clean those yellow foam plugs was to leave them in my pockets when I did the laundry. You tend to use them more when they are clean.

        MartinHeads I win, tails you lose.

      2. caseyr | Nov 21, 2003 06:42am | #50

        All of the hearing aid places sell some drops to clean out the ear wax.  They always try to sell me some, but for some reason, I don't have problems with building up ear wax despite almost always wearing either a hearing aid or a foam ear plug. 

  14. BicycleBill | Nov 21, 2003 09:34am | #51

    To Shep et al:  I'm a 60 yr. old carpenter with major hearing loss.  I recently got a hearing aid (2 grand per ear),  which I cannot use on the job because (1), it is sensitive to dust, and (20), it would amplify sound too much, even though it's capable of damping noises somewhat.  I read recently that the average 50 yr. old carpenter has lost 60 sones and the average 25 yr. old, 20.  Significant hearing damage occurs with the loss of 25 sones.  Hearing is affected by both a single loud noise and cumulative noise.  Like many my age, very few wore any ear protection when they were younger.  Mainly a finish carpenter, I was done in by power miters, among other tools.  But every skilsaw cut affects us if we are unprotected, and let's face it:  we all make many quick cuts without taking the time to put on protection.  Now I am trying to keep my hearing from getting any worse.  I have attached a marine type swivel with a clip on both my framing and finish belts.  I drilled a hole on each end of a good set of the headphone type of ear protectors and inserted a plastic wire bundling tie, which I locked in a small circle.  I found I could quickly clip on and remove the muffs.  I put them on, no matter how few cuts I have to make.  I try to influence the young guys to use protection.  I ask them how they would feel if they couldn't hear music, a scary thought whatever kind of music you like.  I hope you all can learn from my experience and take care of your hearing before it's too late.  Be well.  Bicycle Bill.    

  15. blues_hound | Nov 22, 2003 03:56am | #52

    WHAT! no really WHAT

    Obstacles are the things you see when you take your eyes from the goal!
    1. Shep | Nov 22, 2003 04:33am | #53

          SPEAK UP--- I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

      1. aksophie | Nov 22, 2003 05:38am | #54

        I just read this thread and am both glad and sad to find so many others in the same ear boat as I am. I'd not wish hearing loss on anyone, but knowing that so many others who are in more or less the same business as I, gives me hope that perhaps we can save others and perhaps change some attitudes.

        One of my pet peeves, no, it's more of a gigantic peeve.....is people who do not/will not accept that I don't hear well. So often I have told someone that "I hear poorly, could you please speak up" and they do for maybe two or three words....then back to normal speech. Or they will joke about it.........that really frosts me.

        Like many others have written here, I too have a significant hearing loss. Last August I got two digital aids ($6000 -- no lie!) and while they are helping, I'd rather have my hearing back. One thing my audiologist keeps insisting on is that I must have patience and let my brain adapt to the aids. Being digital, they are set to boost only the higher frequencies that I cannot hear. It will take time (he says) for me to re-learn to interpret those sounds as something that is heard. Since I'd gone for so many years without being able to hear those frequencies, my brain simply lost its ability to hear them. He says that I won't regain normal hearing, but some "regeneration" will be made. I am taking his word for it because I was/am tired of not being able to join in conversations or hear a movie.

        For those of you who have been told that there is no point in gettin hearing aids, get another opinion. Yea, I know that six grand is a lot to pay, and I am very fortunate that I can afford to. But we are talking about HEARING. That makes it worth whatever it takes.

        Hearing protection: I have five pair of muffs in the shop, so one pair is always handy and I have loaners. I use plugs plus muffs for really noisy jobs. I use protection when vacuuming at home and when mowing the lawn. I even use them when using a mixer in the kitchen. I've offered ear plugs to lots of guys, seldom are they accepted. That's sad. I'd like to give my loss to young workers for just a day......let them "hear" the future.

        One more thing: Thanks for the tip about hearing loss of the shop dog. My dog, Sophie (my sign-in name only) is with me everyday......I've always been aware of her exposure, but I'll crank that up a notch.

        To everyone, thanks for sharing your experiences.

        Jeff

        1. AdamB | Nov 29, 2003 10:33am | #55

          I decided a while ago that I want to be able to hear my grandkids someday....

          so in the wood shop I wear both the in-ear foam plugs and the over-ear headsets.. non-electronic...

          I belive the head set is rated at 35 sones and the plugs are the typical foam ones....

          does anyone know what they are rated for?

          1. TrimButcher | Nov 30, 2003 05:42pm | #59

            Adam, I don't know what the plugs are rated for in sones, only in decibels (dB).  Earmuffs are generally in the low 20's and foam earplugs are mid to high 20's.  Surprising that the cheap solution is typically better...

            Regards,

            Tim

        2. User avater
          BossHog | Nov 29, 2003 03:27pm | #56

          "One of my pet peeves, no, it's more of a gigantic peeve.....is people who do not/will not accept that I don't hear well."

          I have that problem too - Primarily from DW. When I tell her I she's mumbling and/or talking too fast she gets honked off.

          A couple of days ago we went out to the farm to cut firewood. I took along a set of Stihl brand hearing protectors. (My favorite set) Dad never uses hearing protection, even though he now has a hearing aid.

          When Dad got the chainsaw out I offered them to him and said: "I brought these along, if you're not too hard headed to use them".

          He used the things, and even said he liked them. So yesterday I went out to the local Stihl dealer and bought him a set for Christmas.You're a jewel. When's the last time you had a good buffing?

  16. andybuildz | Nov 29, 2003 05:57pm | #57

    At 52 my hearing is shot from all the years of loud tools (and music).

    Went for a hearing test a year ago and the doc said I need hearing aids in both ears but of course I'd rather learn lip reading so I just suffer through it and keep annoying my wife always saying,"whatttt"???? Then she repeats herself and I get annoyed and ask her why she thinks I understand her the second time when she's speaking at the same loudness as the first time.

    I'll suffer through it till I can't take it anymore....or she can't take it anymore.

    After 40 my eyes went...then back, then ears....sense of humor is still good though and you know what works as well as when I was 18....whewwwwww

    Wear ear protection!

    BE heard

                andy

    My life is my practice!

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

    1. DocDM | Nov 30, 2003 08:18am | #58

      Thanks to all in this thread. I grew up working with my Dad - too tough to worry about gloves, hearing protection, safety glasses, etc. Luckily, he never had any serious accidents, but I sure remember alot of "Huh?", "What", etc. Then I spent 9 years as Marine - listening to artillery close by, running equipment, last 4 years after Gulf War at an air base a hundred yards away from the flight line.

      Been back at swinging a hammer for the last year and really noticed the ringing in my ears late at night. I've had a pair of earplugs in the truck but never pulled them out until this thread. They're the yellow rubber kind with three "baffles?" on them attached together by a cord. Trying to get in to the habit, it's still not a reflex to put them in.

      Thanks again!

      DocA shortcut is the longest distance between two points.

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