Heat pump repair or replace decision.
ErnieD
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
I am in an all electric community. Power is $0.035 per KWH. Heat pump reverser valve stuck and cooked the compressor. It is 16.5 years old. SEER = 10
I will be living here for 35 more months, then my sentence in NYS is over.
My repair choices are:
1) Replace old compressor and toasted components $1800 1 yr compressor
2) Replace outside condenser unit with Ruud $2400 5 yr warranty
3) Replace everything and stimulate economy $7350 (Trane vari spd)
15 SEER
In the winter my heat bill can run $600/month. Between winter and summer the unit will run nonstop. How much will the repair or new unit hurt or help the future sale? Any guesses?
Replies
My thumb suck is that the complete new unit will get you bragging rights during the sale (meaning it might sell a few days faster), but that would only amount to maybe $1K in payback, $2K if you're lucky. Very little bragging rights for just a new condenser unit.
Of course, 3 years is a fair amount of time. What's it worth to you to have a (presumably) quieter, more comfortable system? And what do you figure your annual heating/cooling bill to be (subtracting out other electrical use)? The 15 SEER will save you maybe 20-25% of that.
(I calculate you'd need to save $159 a month to come out ahead on the new Trane, with no increased resale value, but only $130 a month if you figure $1K in increased resale value, $101 a month if you figure $2K.)
Since the unit was old and you cooked the compressor pieces of metal debris could easily be in the balance of the system. There are some energy credits available this year that could sway your decision. Don't forget the Cap and Trade bill. If you go to sell in 3 years and the audit makes it into law you may be forced to upgrade then.
Given good ductwork, a variable speed motor is tons cheaper to run than a standard PSC motor.
I'll second that. I was amazed at how much our electric bill dropped when we switched our gas furnace to a variable DC motor.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I have a chart that shows a $200 savings in New York based upon "normal" use (fan on only during a call for heat or AC).
Same chart shows $400 savings when fan is "on" all the time.
Chart was done in 2002.
Yeah, we have the fan on most of the time, and I'm guessing we saved around $20 a month with the new one.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Ya did bit say what size it is.
If it wuz me, I'd get an R-22 outside unit off ebay for $800 and just replace that. Get one a 1/2T or even 1 T (if ya nnow got a 4 or 5T unit, smaller than what your present unit was rated at. You will get better efficiency overall and probably be at over 14 seer (what a worthless number, good old COP was more precise, but needs to decimals for a good description of performance!)
Remove and discard any existing orifice and filters.
Blow out the lines and indoor coil with compressed air or even run tap water thru it to get out any crud, then blow out with your N2 bottle and pull a 300 micron vacuum overnight or even all day to get all the moisture out.
Pressure test with N2 to 400 psi.
Pull vacuum for another day.
Replace orifices with txvs, install new liquid line filter/dryer and a suction line dryer at the compressor. vacuum again, then charge and good to go.
If you diy, ya gotta get a $25 epa license off the internet (open book test) and about $500 worth of gauges, vacuum pump, N2 bottle, brazing outfit, etc. then ya good to go and have some new tools. .
If ya are not willing to learn how to do the above, then you are at the mercy of HVAC folks <G> -- gotta feed their kids too.
The $1800 is a real good deal if the tech will do everything listed above, but probably would want extra $$ for the txv and cleaning the old coil and lines. Plus doubt if he'd leave his vac pump with you overnight?
Oops, forgot the size fact. It is a 4 ton rig, heating, it holds it own down to about 30 F, then it is electric resistance. 125A @ 240V; 2x200A service panels. Jan and Feb we can 3-4 weeks of zero to 25 days.On the A/C side the unit is marginal, upstairs is too warm and yup we leave it in fan mode to keep the air stirred.I don't have the skills or the equipment to diy; and if I mess up and the unit goes out in the middle of winter it is money spent all again.I just did not want to buy into the 410 tech just yet, I hate feeding the learning curve.Thanks to all for the additional thoughts.
On the A/C side the unit is marginal, upstairs is too warm and yup we leave it in fan mode to keep the air stirred.
Ductwork and airflow problems. Nothing else it can be. If you are using anything other than a plain old fiberglass air filter, you are making the problem worse.
My chart projects almost $500 a year savings for ECM motors over PSC motors when left in "fan on" mode in New York.
The ECM motor operates at 50% of the cooling speed in "fan on" mode, so you hardly hear it.
I just did not want to buy into the 410 tech just yet, I hate feeding the learning curve.
R-410A has been around a long time. R-22 is being phased out next year, so that means distributors are limiting purchasing this year to minimize inventory they will be stuck with. You will have a hotter discharge temperature with R410-A compared to 22 in heat pump mode.
Unfortunately, 410A equipment must be installed to mfg specs for the best performance and equipment life. The chemistry is not as forgiving as 22 equipment when it is installed for the best profit.
The guys that claim they can pull a system down to 500 microns and hold it there in 20 minutes are so full of BS... it can easily take *HOURS* to get to that point and hold 450/500 during a blank off test. When residential HVAC companies here expect the installer to git 'er done in less than 2 hours, rest assured that the job is being done poorly.
But, people don't want to pay for a job done right.. and investors want increasing returns... and the installer wants to shave time off the performance based pay so he can get a bonus... then they complain 5 years later when the unit craps out. Go figure.
There are tax credits available if the heat pump and air handler meet specific criteria. It is not easy to get a match (and the equipment must have an ARI match certificate for the tax credit), but it is possible. Unless you are *absolutely certain* you are moving in 3 years, I would suggest the variable speed equipment. The comfort level is much better.
Even if you are moving, I would suggest it. Some homebuyers are getting wise to current owners that spend some money on better quality stuff instead of the junk that is put in by the "I'm not staying long, so do it cheap" crowd.
Maybe buyers are getting tired of being stung by cheap junk when they buy a house... the same krap they did when they moved. I consider it karma. :)
Edited 8/22/2009 7:22 am ET by danski0224
Is the system zoned? If not, another $1K or so might be sufficient to zone it and make things much more comfortable. (But of course that's money that's hard to justify over 3 years, and it wouldn't be much of a selling point.)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
i love spending other peoples money.
if thats all the options i would go with the 2400 deal. when you sell it will have some sway in the fact its only 3 years old,versus new compressor means nothing ,you still have a old unit with faded paint.
plus it will move you from a 10 seer to 13.which to me means nothing ,but it sounds better.
no way would i spend 7500 and move in 3 yrs.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
if you have the old one fixed it may fail again before the 3 yrs are up...