I’m going to be installing a 2.5 ton heat pump on my house and was wondering if anybody had advice on brands to avoid or brands to recommend? I’m located just outside of Montreal where we do get pretty cold in the winter. Any advice would be great! Thanks!!
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tkj,
This site has lots of info.
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/
KK
I second looking at HVAC-talk.com.
Have gotten lots of good advice there. One suggestion, do some homework first and at least know all the terminology or those guys will tell you (like some here) to hire a pro.
thanks for the reply! tkj
Thanks for replying. tkj
Have you set your mind on a heat pump already? Should do some research and find out if it is suitable for your climate.
Here in Toronto heat pump was big about twenty years ago then died all of a sudden. The whole heat pump concept is just not suitable for the locale.
Any idea of why it isn't suitable in Toronto? I can't see any reason why not....here in Atlantic Canada, we are using a lot of heat pumps....Good down to -15 or so.....
"...Good down to -15 or so....."
Are you sure?
Try turning off the aux heat and see how warm it is.
The real question is how often the aux heat comes one and how much it cost?
Well, the aux heat kicks in when it's around -13 -15. That's where I get the number. Nothing beats direct observation.
Are we talking Celsius (C) or Fahrenheit (F)?
F= 9/5 C + 32F or
F=1.8C + 32F
This might clear things up some. I live in central Virginia (USA) and have a heat pump on my house. Its o.k. until you get into the 20's (thats F), then it really starts to struggle to pull heat out of the air. But, mine is old and needs to be replaced.
-m2akita
-M2akita
thanks for the info, here in Quebec every house seems to have them, just recently moved here from Barrie, On. Could it be a $ issue between natural gas versus electricity? Thanks for the reply
Didn't recognize your name, and see this is your first post, welcome!
If you are a DIY, HVAC-talk is very valuable. If you are going to hire it all, you definetely need to put on your "discerning" hat. Within the HVAC pro community there are a lot of distributors that have various markups. I would recommend if you can find it in hvac-talk a thread on Goodman brand stuff. I've bought a 4T 14 SEER Goodman system off Ebay at a very low price ($1200 USD including delivery ) from a Philly distributor and am convinced it was a really good deal. I have a 4 T Rheem at my own house that is trouble free ($2300 USD from Grainger, before I discovered the guy in Philly).
Don't know Can. laws, here in the US you need an EPA license to buy F22 (big deal, a $25 open book internet test to get it for DIY). If you contemplate DIY for under $ 1K for a 2.5 ton (you have a 1500 SQFT house or smaller?- if not, suggest you review your size reqirements) go the DIY route, assuming you already have oxy/act equip and electrical know how. You will need to spend another $300 on vacuum pump, N2 tank, etc (you'll know what you need after a trip to the library and 5-10 hours of reading) to do it right assuming you already have the normal complement of FHB tools.
Thanks for the welcome, I won't be attempting this installation but have been fielding quotes. The house is apprx 1800 sq ft split level. So far everyone has recommended 2.5 ton heat pump and one company said they would use 3 ton cooling coil inside( more surface area to aid the removal of moisture) . Thanks for the reply it's appreciated. tkj
I would be leary of using a heat pump in your locale. I also live in Canada but on the west coast where we do not have severe winters like you do. I believe heat pumps were designed for weather that does not reach -10 or they have to work too hard to extract any warm air out of the cold air. Im sure that if you contact a reputable dealer they will tell you the same thing..sorry about those HABS...LOL
Oh well, maybe next year for the habs! Actually, every dealer has been recommended heat pumps, I don't know if this is related to the fact that in Quebec electricity is the prominent source for heating (thanks to all the Hydro Dams up north) but I haven't been told to avoid a heat pump at all. Most of the homes around have heat pumps (houses that are 1500 - 3000 sq ft) . I have heard the heat pumps working throughout most of the winter and continuing now in this cool spring season. They all seem to be coming in between $5000 - $6000 depending on the HP manufacturer. Thamks for the reply. TKJ
Dont know if this will help you or not...I have a 5 ton york heat pump ..a year and a half old..I use it to heat my new home here in Victoria . The house is close to 4500 square feet and my hydro bills in the winter are around 250 dollars a month..and it is my main source of heat..my auxillary heat seldom comes on but if it does the needle in the hydro meter looks like it will fly off...good luck
I am in so carolina, 2800 ft2 $170 per month year round but only 2 people.
I have lived in a house with a heat pump in Barrie ON for 14 years. There are many pros and cons for heat pumps. The first on lasted 11 years though it had several minor repairs along the way. It was a 3.5T Lennox. I now have a new (3 years) Lennox that is quite different but seems to work fine.
The great plus with a heat pump is that you get air conditioning, something that seems to be more important as summers get hotter. Once you have had central air it is hard to give up.
In my experience once the outside air temp. drops below -5 C. (low 20's F.) most houses will not heat without auxiliary electric heat. Yes you can argue that the heat pump is still delivery cost effective heat down to maybe -15 C. but it must run constantly to do it. A properly designed heat pump system blows a lot of air that is what I call low grade heat. It is about 80 to 90 F. which will heat your house but in really cold weather sometimes feels a bit breezy.
I would not suggest a heat pump for an elderly person or anyone who feels the cold badly.
Repairs, small or large and eventual replacement costmust be factored in with a heat pump to show the true long term cost. If you install one in Montreal it will run steadily for many months. I would guess that it would last 10 years at most.
I think that they are really designed for warmer areas than Canada.
Bill
Thanks Big Bill, Actually just moved from Barrie in the fall. We lived just behind the hospital. We had AC on our townhouse there installed by Yanch and I certainly agree with you that once with AC always with AC. Actually as far as weather goes winter of '02/'03 was colder in Barrie than it was in the area we currently reside in. Thanks for the heads up on repair, one of the dealers did recommend a 10/10 yrs on parts and labour for a 2.5 ton York HP, when compared to some other quotes the cost of the 10/10 works out to be $250. Probably worth it! All quotes came in between $5000-$6000 does that sound in line with your recent installion? Take care, already missing Barrie. TKJ
be careful about the hvac talk folks.
-they do not like any Do it yourself people. (even though they probably work on all their own stuff rather than calling the Maytag repair man or other professional). Even simple stuff like replacing a circuit breaker is a life threatening evolution that can ONLY be done by an HVAC pro. Don't think of putting on a new condenser fan blade - too dangerous.
- they claim ALL brands are the same the only difference is the installation !!!!!!!!!!! Do you know any other products where all brands are the same?
- since ALL brands are the same, just by chance the brand they happen to sell is the best brand for you (isn't that special!!) . Even tho deep in their heart maybe there is another better brand, but they can not become a dealer for whatever reason.
they also forbid ANY mention of that dirty word "price". Even though most of us are adult enought to recognise that job cost might actually vary with brand, job scope, and location in the US
Edited 5/7/2004 1:27 pm ET by wain
Edited 5/7/2004 1:29 pm ET by wain
I live in the south end in Tollendale. I had a 3.5 T model Lennox installed by BR Heat. I think that it was about $ 7000. When I built the house therewas no natural gas on the street. Now there is, but my house is about 300' back from the street and it would cost me about $ 3,000 to 4,000 to get the gas line as well as replacing the whole furnace so I bought a heat pump again.
My street is going to get water and sewer in the next couple of years. As long as I have to dig for that I may put in gas. On the other hand gas is going up in price. My electric bill does heat, light, cooking and water heaing in the house and averages about $ 275.00 per month for a 2750 sq. ft. house. Not great but not terrible.
Best of luck to you.
Bill
You didn't mention what other options you might be considering. If gas is available, why not go with a high efficiency gas furnace/heat pump combo? But do the cost tradeoff analysis first. A lot of people around here (central VA) have gone that route lately, but are using propane. The last time I compared the prices in my locale, it was almost dead even between the cost of propane and the cost of electricity for the auxiliary heat. The gas furnace/heat pump combo will cost more initiatially, but if the natural gas in your area is cheaper than electric resistance heat, you should make it up in the long run. One advantage of the gas furnace is that you can get by with a much small generator if you want to be able to operate your central heat in power outages.
The way I understand it, propane is one of the most expensive forms of energy, because it is a refined product; whereas natural gas has less processing to it, so it is generally less expensive.
(And yes, my temperatures were in C; since the discussion at that point was about heat pumps in Toronto, that seemed appropriate).
Personally, I think the choice is: you spend money on energy to generate heat, ie a furnace, or you spend money on energy to move heat from one place to another, ie, a heat pump. I think moving heat is a better way to spend energy. But that's me.
Thanks for the reply, unfortunately up here in Quebec electricity is about 75% of the market. Natural gas is just starting to make inroads. Oil heating is around to but who knows where that price is going to end up! So we're just looking into a HP to supplement our electric York forced air system and have AC for the hot humid summers we seem to be getting here every year. All quotes received have been between $5000-$6000 cdn dollars. Thanks again. TKJ
I think everyone is talking air-source heat pump - - Depending on the size of your lot, etc, a ground-source hp may be an option
Just finishing the first winter in my new house - 2200 sq ft in Atlantic Canada with an open loop gshp as the only heat. Comparing power bills to the previous two years in a mobile with oil heat, my Kw for the season seem to be up about 50%, but no furnace oil to buy.
We did have four or five mornings in a row with the thermometer stuck at -28 C, but even then the compressor didn't run continuously, and the timer wired into the aux coils in the plenum didn't move.
And last August, with a +28 C temperature and humidity level of about 480%, the whole-house AC was a blessing.
Doc - The Old Cynic
Thanks Doc, we have apprx 25,000 sq ft lot, with apprx 1800 sq ft split level home. I've seen the ground loop systems, but what is the cost difference vs an electric HP. Like you guys out east our summers here seem to be more and more humid every year, but we haven't been getting the snow like you anymore. Thanks for your help. TKJ