Is any one familiar with a heatalator type fire place? I think that is what they call it.
My model has two registers that are in a soffit above the fireplace. You turn on two fans in the hearth and they blow the heated air out of these registers.
I had a small fire in the fireplace today and noticed that the registers were really warm and when I inspected I found that the ducting was just single wall. I could also see some insulation and got to wondering how hot was too hot. They were running at a about 137 degrees. I am concerned that the longer the fire burns that the temp will just climb higher.
Any info would be appreciated especially rough in or installer expereinces
Webby
Replies
We have one; never have had any problems--I'm hoping that keeping the air moving through it will actually help cool the ducts and prevent problems--but I never thought about it burning through--that would be really bad with the fan on! Maybe get someone you trust to look at it. I had a chminey sweep guy look at and clean out flue and so on a couple years ago and he said everything was unsafe, whole chimney should be rebuilt, etc. (and he would be happy to do it, only x amount of money--I decided to wait and so far it's been okay--seeing as all the things he identified as life threatening problems have probably existed since my wife's ex- built the thing about thirty years ago, I think we'll be okay!)
I built several different versions of them in the 1970s. The one in my mother's house (built in 1980) is the only one I've kept track of. It was either a Heatilator or a Heatform--same basic design. It is still going strong. My father used to like roaring fires and put it to the test in that respect.
I covered them in brick. Make sure you get the wiring in place for the fans. Also, bring in outside air for the firebox and plan on installing a door. After you build a fire, you can't close the damper until it burns out. This is like leaving a window open over night. It's nice to be able to close off the firebox before you go to bed.
Follow the manufacturer's specs for layout.
That is kind of the problem It is about twenty years old and original to the house. I am wondering if it is installed right. I am mainly just concerned about the blower ducts being single wall I can't tell if there is proper clearance around them.
There is also a duct going into the cold air return of the heatpump system. which apperars to come from the blower ducting.
It is manufactured by Martin industries but they went bankrupt and no info or specs are avaislable. They were bought by another company.
Webby
Edited 2/6/2008 5:47 pm ET by webby
Edited 2/6/2008 5:48 pm ET by webby
Don't want to be neg. but...
I'm a second generation mason and I spent a lot of time in my youth pulling those things out. The good news is it wasn't because of wiring issues. First they just don't heat well enough ( at least for here in upstate N.Y. ) and second because the steel flues rust out.
It's twenty years later and I find myself the owner of a house with you guessed it a "Heat-o-Later" This time what I notice is some strange
chimney cap that is a sheet of something that's like 1/2 inch thick and gobbed up with tar.
Long story short, I haven't heard of fire problems but loads of others.
Yeah I suspect that this one is leaking, I am not sure that it is installed well at all.Webby
Yeah, I bet poor installation was problem with most of them. It's too bad I have what looks like a beautiful stone fireplace, that I'll have rip out sooner or later.
"First they just don't heat well enough "
Compared to a tight wood stove, true, but he IS getting air coming out at more than 125°F!
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I think we're talking about two different things. The units I installed--Heatilators and Heatforms--were steel double-walled fireboxes. Except for the firebox the chimney from the footing up was masonry. The flue was made from standard clay flue liners. As I said, the only one I've kept track of is still working fine.
In looking these things up, I found that the Heatalator is a "zero clearance" fireplace. Those things scare me and I would never install one in my own house.
I sure didn't mean to become the Scroodge of heat o laters.
Piffin- Yeah but not much.I've run mine twenty four hours straight and had the furnace come on (set @ 65 degrees).
Mudslinger- I'm not sure where the misinformation is but I'm looking right at the label and it is a double walled unit with air in and air out cavities on the sides.
I can't say about the flues.This one and the ones I remember were steel, in fact that was one of the big problems.They would rust out and then what are ya supposed to do? Like I said it's really to bad they had these issues, it would be nice to have an open fire and be efficient.
""...it would be nice to have an open fire and be efficient."" Contradiction in terms IMO.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Exactly !
Piffin, could be I will have to investigate more.
Webby
Edited 2/8/2008 8:46 am ET by webby
Edited 2/8/2008 8:47 am ET by webby
If you a metal flue, you probably have a zero-clearance fireplace. These usually have a thin firebrick lining in the firebox. And they usually have framed "chimneys". I've actually put brick veneer around the wood frame on a few occasions. I found it to be more work than just building a brick chimney. The unit and the required clearances, plus the thickness of the frame made for a huge, clunky-looking chimney. And the extra depth made it so that I couldn't reach accross the sides and had to scaffold the sides. If you have wood chimney, you have a zero-clearance chimney. If you have a brick chimney with a sheet metal top and a pipe sticking out of it, you have a zero-clearance chimney with brick veneer.
If you have a black steel firebox and a masonry chimney, with clay fues and a concrete cap, you have a "heatform fireplace". These things were all the rage just after the oil crisis in the 1970s and I built several of them. They are no longer made.
The confusion arises because one model of heatform fireplace, manufactured by Superior, was called the "Heatilator".
Several zero-clearance fireplaces have similar names, such as the "Heatalater" or the "Heat-a-Later". I've always thought the zero-clearance fireplace with wood-framed chimneys were a bad idea. The ones that were installed in the 1970s and 1980s have not weathered well.
Thanks Piffin for some numbers to keep in perspective.
As I said I can see some fiberglass in the soffit but can't tell if it is just bat or faced it is in rather close proximity to the blower ducts in the soffit. Any flame up temps for fiberglass or paper faced insulation.
I probably wasn't clear in my original post. Actually this is a house that my sister just bought in our neighborhood. It has a masonry exterior chimney with a steel pipe coming out of it with spark cap. The interior of this unit appears to be the thin firebrick.
Webby
Edited 2/7/2008 11:46 am ET by webby
Edited 2/7/2008 11:48 am ET by webby
Here's a picture with some information about the Heatform:
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Heatform/
i've never seen a masonry chimney with a steel pipe flue. I am thinking this is a brick veneer over a wood frame.
Fake masonry
Fake flue
fake heat
fake fireplace
Oooops, I mean faux, not fake
;)
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Thanks for the info. From your link I have a Heatilator-Heatform.
This house was built in the early 1970's right when the link said they were popular.
So I'm left with a masonry shell to figure out where to go from here.I've built some Rumfords for clients before, but how am I going to do that with out ripping down my chimney shell? Oh yea I should mention this is a very strange 70's house and one of the ridge beams is built on this chimney.
Any suggestions would be great.
Henley,
I'm not a structural engineer but I can provide some insights about how these things went together. First, I poured a footing and brought the base of the chimney up to floor level in the normal fashion. After laying a firebrick floor, I set the unit in place on top of it. (These units were pretty heavy, maybe 300 lbs.) The manufacturer provided fiberglass insulation about 1 1/2-in. thick to wrap the unit. After wrapping it in fiberglass, I pre-wired it for the fans following the instructions of my electrician. Then I bricked around it. As per the manufacturers instructions, I didn't lay the bricks tight to the unit and, if I remember correctly the unit did not support the masonry above. I'm pretty sure I put lintels above the unit to support the masonry above. But you never know what the mason who built yours did.
The unit came with an integral throat and damper but I had to build a smoke chamber. From there up, it was a standard brick chimney with clay flue liners.
These things were essentially built-in inserts. I think they went out of fashion because people didn't like the way the steel firebox looked. They often figured that they could build a standard firebrick firebox and still have the option of putting in an insert. The one at my mother's house cranks out the heat. But I set it inside the exterior wall, which I insulated. And I stepped it in at ceiling level and insulated over top of the "shoulders" created by the step-in. I also provided for outside air for the fire and later installed a glass door.
It seems to me that you'd be able to remove the profile in front of the unit inside the house and remove the steel firebox from there. You'd need to go up about 5-ft. above the hearth and maybe 6-in. out from the opening of the firebox on each side. You should be able to cut the steel into manageable parts with a grinder equipped with a steel cutting blade. The beam is a major concern but there's probably a way to shore it up during the work or to add a lintel above the firebox prior to the demolition.
Thanks for the feed back. I'm thinking it's going to be tough to lay the flues inside the chimney. I suppose some sort of liner system, but I'd rather have clay flues.
My idea is maybe remove the old unit and enlarge the face opening to make a sort of alcove to place a wood stove in. That would require cutting a lot of masonry out which makes me nervous.
Any thoughts?
When it starts approaching 250°F, then start worrying.
Most wood framing etc can falme up at tem,ps around 450+, but carbonization begins above 250
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