Hello all,
Regarding hot water or boiler heat. I just started a remodel on a house built in 1976 and all of the heat is baseboard hot water. The customer is only using this house for a vacation home. It is in Saratoga, WY. and they are concerened with water pipes freezing and bursting when they are not here. They would like me to remove this system and put gas-forced air heat in, but so far I can’t see a reason to. I have been sleeping in the basement of this house for three days and the heat is superb. I don’t know much about boilers, but for the money I think they could just replace the boiler with drain valves or something to prevent freeze-ups. They seem pretty set on replacing with gas-forced air, but would listen to viable alternatives. Just thought I would fish for some opinions on this since I have only dealt with forced air systems and this system seems to heat as well or better. Other than visible registers on the floorboards, I can’t find many drawbacks.
Thanks in advance.
Cole
Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
Replies
Coledean,
Go to a plumbing supply and get 5 gals of anti freeze or more ,depending on the size of the system,and add it to the system.
I think hot water heat is a better choice then hot air,I think it gives a more even heat.For a vacation home hot air heats quicker when you first turn it on but it seems to make more dust.
Vince Carbone
Edited 3/29/2002 6:07:42 AM ET by Vince Carbone
I second Vince's suggestion. You may need to disable any valves that connect your heating system to your domestic hot water. It would hurt to have a plumber look over your system and make suggestions. They would be completely familiar with what is required.
Vince,
I like hot water and steam heat. But do you really believe that "(a forced air system) seems to make more dust"? I've yet to see a furnace that "makes dust".
Vince, Schelling, and Tim
Thanks for your replies. I have a plumber coming over today to look at the system among about 100 other items I need done. Ill see what they have to say
ColeCole Dean
Dean Contracting
>I've yet to see a furnace that "makes dust".
Well, I've seen a couple that were doing a good job of blowing soot from the screwed up burners through the holes in the heat exchanger and getting it all over the house, but the bodies tended to obnscure the dust problem<G>
FA does move the dust a lot better than that quiet old hot water heat!
Hot air forced doesn't make dust but wioll blow it around. Now if you keep the filter on the plenum clean, which most folk never think of, it'll actually clean the air a little in the process.
Hot air is a third of the price to install and a little less efficient to run.
Hot air is lots more moisy.
Forced hot air will dry your sinus membranes more than hydronic systems will.
All around, the radiators are more comfortable heat.
50/50 antifreeze will stop it from freezing but you do need a backflow valve. The system should already have it but sometimes old places have rinkydink stuff so you'd need to have that checked.
For my money, replacing a hydronic system with forced hot air is like trading a Mercedes in on a Pinto because you like the colour of the Ford better.
Excellence is its own reward!
<Forced hot air will dry your sinus membranes more than hydronic systems will.
But it's an indirect efect, I think. Furnaces (and boilers) do not dry the air; they heat dry cold air so the temperature is comfortable to us.
Forced air installations usually cause pressure im-balances in the house which might (which do?) increase the amount of air exchanges leading to more cold dry air entering the house needing to be heated and the loss of already heated air which has picked up moisture from daily living activities (washing, cooking, breathing, etc,)
>All around, the radiators are more comfortable heat.
Yep!
>For my money, replacing a hydronic system with forced hot air is like trading a Mercedes in on a Pinto because you like the colour of the Ford better.
Me too.
Edited 3/30/2002 3:42:20 PM ET by Bob Walker
good and accurate post. I would add that you often do not even need the antifreeze ratio to be 50/50. Ususally you can get by with less which increases efficiency.
Right! Depends on expectd low temps and type of system. eg. I would be more comfortable with less in PEX.
If I remember right the antifreeze will dispense thermal energy less efficiently than plain water. That effects the formula, right?
Getting warm out there yet? Spring is mighty wet here in Maine.
Excellence is its own reward!
<Forced hot air will dry your sinus membranes more than hydronic systems will.>
I saw one reply to that, but I have to also jump on! Absolutely NO water is taken from the air during forced air--it just goes over something warm. In radiant heat, the same thing happens, but that something warm is the floor. And, in today's modern furnaces, the air is not even hot; the forced exhaust is even cooler than my clothes drier, and the air is only moderately warmer than the room air. (Even the cat doesn't bother sleeping on the warm air vent any more!!)
And, in case you want more moisture in the air, you can add an AprilAire humidifier to the FA. Just try doing THAT with a radiant heat system.
Noise is louder, but today's blowers are quite quiet.
Oh, yes: Want air conditioning? Cold water on the feet is not very comfortable.What's the difference between stupidity and ambivalence?
I don't know & I don't care
Ah, but it will dry things faster when the air is moving.
Water molecules are picked up as they gain enough heat energy to evaporate and are whisked away by air moving at velocity.
With radiant heat, a slight convection current set itself up but this effect is less.
I know of few people who have lived with both kinds of system who don't find them selves much happier with the radiant.
True, new hot air ones are quieter and ducted systems can let you add air condtioning and humidifier/dehumidifiers inline but by then you've punched the cost way up again.
Bottom line for this thread, in keeping with the original Q is that the owners need to be happy and they make the decision but they should do it with full knowledge. Desighning a new system is one thing but reipping out a good old radiator system to replace it with hot air borders on the insane in this mans opinion.
Excellence is its own reward!
Only an Air Head would disagree with you.
I'll let that one blow by without muddy-ing the water anymore.
;>)
Excellence is its own reward!
Forced air it will be. Spoke with the owners and they are dead set on it. Even if they kept the hot water system, the boiler would need replaced, although im not sure of the cost of that. I don't think the baseboard radiators fit in real well with her design scheme anyway. They are the owners and I will heat the house with whatever they choose. Thanks a lot for all of the info from everyone.
Piffin,
I'm not sure if you were asking me about the weather, I can't tell by the address lines on this board, nor can I figure out how to post a response to all but yes the weather is getting nicer out here. I'm back in Colorado for the weekend and they are calling for snow on Tues. but back up to 70 on Wed. Any luck finding something to do over on the west slope?
ColeCole Dean
Dean Contracting
Actually, the Q was to Wethead, didn't realize you were out there too. Wife has reservations about getting too far away from doctors and family.
When you are typing a reply as I am now you can look above the compose windowbox and see another pull down menu that has a name in it, maybe mine. click on the little arrow and get a choice to select from of every body who has participated or who is online, I don't know which. Or click on the "Others" button and type in whatever title your little heart desires.
Back to subject- those are all lots of other good reasons for replacing whole system, foremost being that the owners are sold on it.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 3/31/2002 12:36:08 PM ET by piffin
Tim,
you're right of course furnaces don't make dust.But a hot air system does seem to blow existing dust around quite a bit.
Vince Carbone