Hello from Matt Higgins, Fine Homebuilding Assistant Editor
Matt_Higgins
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hello, Fine Homebuilding Breaktime members. I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself to the community here on Breaktime. I am the new assistant editor with Fine Homebuilding, and I will be spending a fairly significant amount of my time on the digital side of the brand. As such, I look forward to seeing all of you here at Breaktime often.
I have barely gotten my feet wet here at Taunton, but what I have to offer now is another point of contact for you at Fine Homebuilding. Please feel free to reach out to me here or email me at [email protected] with any comments, concersn, questions, article ideas, etc.
Replies
Welcome to breaktime Matt
please speak with Brian and Lisa and Andy regarding the requests for more user friendly options on this forum. Feel free to pick their brains and whomever else is available to see if you have the talent at your disposal to make this an easier and better place.
there have been several suggestion threads over the years and one more recent. They can be found in the Forum Suggestions folder.
thanks
The forums have been a topic of discussion already and I'm only four days in. I can assure you the Fine Homebuilding team definitely values the community here, and as the website, as a whole, evolves, you can expect serious efforts on further improving the experince here on Breaktime. Basically, I hear ya loud and clear.
I am checking out the suggestions now.
Matt
To get a real feel for what this site was prior to the changeover to this software, you should roam through the threads from pre 2010. You will find there was a bunch more traffic and a whole lot more content. Downside, you won't find any of the old pics, diagrams or other visual explanations. That was a loss made possible by the changeover.
That was a real screw job in the name of progress.
and, you really should smile more.
I was just reading about the loss of images. That's really too bad. I understand if people were frustrated. Can't blame them one bit.
I'll keep checking out the forums to see what I can learn and gather. Thanks for your input.
Fresh meat!!
Thanks for pointing out the double post I made, by the way.
Matt,
How about some articles on spiral staircases, handrails. copper roofing, casing and trimming round or ellipticle windows, inlaid wood flooring ect. After subscribing for about 30 years I found FHB catered more to DIY than to the trades and all I was buying it for was the ads. I don't really need to know how to build a shed.
This forum used to be my favorite site on the internet but now I go to BreakTime3 for my fix.
Sorry for the rant but you asked.
KK
Where the hell is the speel chocker?
No rant there at all. That's great feedback, KK.
Matt: what coonass said, and;
It may help to give you a feel for the 'oldtimers' and where folks went if you do a quick scan of 3 specific spinoff delphi forums: breaktime classic, breaktime 3, and gunners.
BT classic was the first breakaway, and itself has become deserted after the moderator became a 'tyrant' to some. Breaktime 3 allowed discussion that the BT classic moderator eliminated due to his personal preferences, etc. Gunners was wide open (including profanity) but collapsed a few weeks ago when the concrete expert bailed after being personnally attacked multiple times for political views, etc.
I would suspect that many would return to FHB breaktime if the format were more friendly (e.g ditch the wierd way threads are listed) - probably most who still frequent here look at ONLY the recent post category.
IMO what keeps BT3 functioning is that the moderator is 'moderate', plus the regulars know there are professional experts whose advice they can trust in near every field from framers, roofers, cabinet makers, medical doctors and surgical nurses, jaguar repairmen, motel owners, truss designers, every type of engineer, financial gurus, and, not to forget, the political experts <G> . Unfortunately, the concrete expert left BT3 also?
edit ps; BTW, BT3 has a 'shed expert' also, just so as to not disparage sheds, heh, heh......
That's fair enough, BossHog.
Do I want to make this forum, Breaktime, a product the users value and enjoy? Yes, I absolutely do. There is, however, no magic wand. Right now, I am learning the old lay of the land. I appreciate the feedback.
Matt, I hope you undrestand I'm not giving you a hard time. But I can't tell you how many promises we've gotten over the years, only to have them all fall by the wayside.
I'm one of the people who hung on the longest after the great exodus, hoping things would get fixed and people would gravitate back. I mostly come back now because of the farming picture thread.
I read you loud and clear. No worries at all.
what would help
do whatever keeps the likes of some of the regulars sticking around, and brings back the others (people who commented here are a good start). I'm a pretty skilled, well-tooled, and knowledgable amateur; Growing up I learned from pros and then really expanded on that from the pages of FHB over the years. Doing a multi-year reno now and I've asked a lot of questions here--had some great answers that have really pointed me in the right direction. So it only works if the pros/those in the know are here to help guide us (and save us from ourselves!)
Good you're onboard
Hey Matt,
It's good to hear you're onboard. Breaktime was by far the best forum on the internet until someone dropped a big stinkbomb and blew it up. It was real pros helping each other, real pros helping real people, and plenty of camaraderie to go around.
You might want to connect with a few old timers to discuss different aspects of what existed, but by now you probably have a good idea.
The old forum software was run by Delphi and it actually is very good software for these types of dicussions. It's not the most modern software but the navigation was great and it facilitated both the broad view and deep dive. Stuff was searchable.
The current FHB Breaktime software sucks, to put it mildly. I doubt you could find a single old time contributor who thinks the new software is an improvement, and the arrogant attitude of the new software "deciderer" at the time turned off a lot of people who went elsewhere, even though they like FHB.
Andy Engel is a great guy and he's probably told you much of this already.
Breaktime 3 is a good place to hang out and people have invested a lot of time helping others, discussing better ways to do things, and posting a ton of pictures of various jobs from construction to cabinets to woodworking. And food. Carpenters like to eat, ya know.
Good luck turning this around, and feel free to drop over.
Check out Chuck's cabinetmaking thread with over 1000 posts:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime_3/messages/?msg=1442.1
I have one here with some Festool stuff:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime_3/messages/?msg=1695.1
Here's a killer post and beam house under construction:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime_3/messages/?msg=1624.1
And a tips and techniques thread you might find famiiar:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime_3/messages/?msg=1169.1
None of these things happen on FHB's website anymore because a lot of the good people were run off even though all of them wanted to stay. FHB ignored their customer base because the people in charge "knew better"... and I know you know what is the result when that happens in a business....
Cheers,
Billy
One kind of "canary in the
One kind of "canary in the coal mine" with regard to the quality of this software is it's inability to block even simple spam, while many legitimate posters do get blocked. I haven't seen much of the English kitchen spam the last few weeks, so they may have actually done something about that, but if so it was a simple-minded fix that should have been done two years ago.
The spam is far from the worst thing, but it's but it'sbeen a constant irritation.
Nah
The delete button has been getting up earlier and going to bed later.
Yeah, I see I spoke too soon. More kitchen spam this morning. The simplest of anti-spam software should be able to block this (speaking as a computer programmer for 40 years).
DanH wrote:
Yeah, I see I spoke too soon. More kitchen spam this morning. The simplest of anti-spam software should be able to block this (speaking as a computer programmer for 40 years).
but you'll see that the spammer really just used it as a confessional. He has seen the light.
Billy,
Could you add your dining room table build to that list. I could not find it.
KK
Cherry Dining Room Table Build
Hey KK,
Thanks for the compliment.
The cherry dining room table build began on BTC and continued over to BT3 here:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktime_3/messages/?msg=346.1
Billy
Good Luck
Good luck Matt.
Unless you brought a lot of your own money I don't see much changing here, a formerly thriving interaftive communnity based encylopedia of building knowledge.
What's it been? Almost 6 years since this place was 'improved' for the sake of profits and there's still no spell checkr? Or the ability to use browser inherant spell chekcers?
I really think you have good intentions but come back in a month or two after the corporate mandated dream and plan smashing class.
I'm really curious to where FHBs Breaktim fits into their corporate priority list. Articel based content and blogs can be used to promote products but not so in the world of forums.
Congratulations on ladning the position.
John
and there's the frigging spell checker problem again.
I have never been a power participant on this, or any other forum, as are some of these guys. But I've been a member here for a long time. My take on the forum change is that the furor wasn't so much about the need for a change in software, but rather, the seemingly poor choice AND the subsequent disregard by Taunton to the consequences. Understand... this place had a family and that family had a lot of memories invested in pictorial threads, how-to's, and off beat sorts or stories. Taunton took those memories (imagine a huge family photo album) and chucked it into the trash. They they said: We'll make it OK, just be patient. Well its not OK, never has been since, and promises are worth less than a grain of salt.
What is amazing is that so many of the old crowd are still on the fringes and would probably become regulars here again... if only Taunton would accomodate. What is more amazing has been Taunton's reluctance to do so. Maybe, just maybe things are going to change for the better. I, for one, am not holding my breath. But I'll welcome it if it comes.
Sap
It's been said many times that the refugees would return if the software was changed to one of their liking.
why return when a large group has software in a forum that is both familiar and able to do what they want?
perhaps so from BTClassic, but no way from BTIII. No reason to and without the constraints that certainly would be put over them here. It just won't happen.
so any change implemented should be directed at who and what we have right here. The easy answer is mirror what we used to have. The reality is that it won't happen.
I'm hoping like crazy that Matt's got a way to get it done. The reality is that the list of changes we've made up several times and presented to those that could do it, have been shelved each and every time.
positive side, he comes back and responds. That in itself might mean something.
An important component that the breakout sites lack is tha anchor of FHB or something similar. Taunton feeds the forum newbies that ask questions and thus keep the conversation alive. My bet is that if this forum changed back today, the majority of the old group would be here tomorrow.
Anchor?
sapwood wrote:
An important component that the breakout sites lack is tha anchor of FHB or something similar. Taunton feeds the forum newbies that ask questions and thus keep the conversation alive. My bet is that if this forum changed back today, the majority of the old group would be here tomorrow.
Thanks for posting and please forgive my ignorance, but run that by me one more time. What do you mean by lacking the Fine Homebuilding anchor? The forum is linked right on the magazine's homepage. Is the link just too hidden, maybe?
I was referring to the breakout sites like: Breaktime Classic. That forum, like its kin, is not affiliated with any magazine or other sort of entity that can refer new members to it.
FHB's Advantage
FHB has the advatnage over all of the other forums with their market exposure and that it advertises to the inexperienced. FHB built a good repuation in the last 20 or 30 years since they hit theshelves and when people ask 'How do I fix my house?" I would guess a large percetnage of them think of Fine Homebuilding 1st. Brekatime3 and the others don't have this, attracting new members with new questions is difficult at best.
In the long ago Breaktime, the baisc questions posted would often initiate long and detailed and someitmes heated discussions that addressed the many facets that may be a simple answer. The new people bring life to places like this. The ability to easily post photos within the paragraph bring clarity to the answers. The ability to easily navigate long discusions enables those in depth conversaitons. Fast servers let us stay on this page instead of wandering off to another tab waiting for this one to load......
[insert girl from ipanema song to entertain the waiting room to keep them calm]
Of those 4 things I listed you have 1 and not the last 3.
Yes we can post images here but they're tacked on at the end and to include them in the post we need to revert to the ancient technique found in the books of old... Refer to Plate 1, Refer to Figure 3. Not much for a smooth process.
FHB should be able to do more with the draw they have, with the reputation they've built.
The draw of the newbie
Cal, I'll disagree with you.
BTiii doens' t have the marketing exposure to draw in new memebrs and that's what gives forums life. This place (FHB) has more potential than any of the spin-offs if they'd just enable it again.
John
I wasn't too clear I guess.
I also had my previous attempt at a reply fly off to never land. It was clear, concise and brilliant.
gist of it was, no I don't think that very many would return even if Taunton were to make all right here.....which I don't think is going to happen.
The overall volume of new registrants are nothing but a bunch of jumbled letters and numbers. A rare few are real human beings. Result is the spam gets through while the eager new member gets blocked.
however, the numbers and hits on the site which are evidently words from the lord, continue to grow.
It won't get to the point where very many alumni will have the opportunity to even be interested.
and no, I won't be found on FHB's Facebook page forum.
I think what you're saying is that there's a critical combo of factors:
Attracting potential new users
A base of knowledgeable users to answer questions (and provide "atmosphere"
A "friendly" user interface that is easy to learn (ideally requires no learning) and which encourages browsing and a little chatting
A good base of already-answered questions, in an easy-to-access format
The FHB magazine and web site still attracts new potential users. The problem is that we lost "friendly" UI with The Massacre, and with it we lost much of the old user base, and much of the already-answered question base. The current setup is barely enough to "hang on", and certainly not what you need to rebuild the site.
Me Too.
>and no, I won't be found on FHB's Facebook page forum<
Me too. Facebook is the last palce to make in depth conversation, long detailed replies or discusssions of any length beyond 10 or 15 posts. It's very tedious for our kind of discussions.
>The overall volume of new registrants are nothing but a bunch of jumbled letters and numbers. A rare few are real human beings. Result is the spam gets through while the eager new member gets blocked<
That's disappointing to hear. Big Q: Does FHB recognize it and is looking beyond the next few weeks or just looking at the search hits that brought people here today and yesterday?
John
john7g wrote:
>and no, I won't be found on FHB's Facebook page forum<
Me too. Facebook is the last palce to make in depth conversation, long detailed replies or discusssions of any length beyond 10 or 15 posts. It's very tedious for our kind of discussions.
>The overall volume of new registrants are nothing but a bunch of jumbled letters and numbers. A rare few are real human beings. Result is the spam gets through while the eager new member gets blocked<
That's disappointing to hear. Big Q: Does FHB recognize it and is looking beyond the next few weeks or just looking at the search hits that brought people here today and yesterday?
thats one of those unanswered questions that's been asked many, many times.
One suspects that if FHB took the spam problem seriously they would have done more about it by now. When a spammer posts virtually the same message again and again it doesn't take a rocket scientist to implement an anti-spam facility to block it. (Especially since, given that this new software is so "modern" it should have the necessary anti-spam tools built-in.)
If there is a metaphor for this particular discussion thread it might be: A series of small waves generated by a small storm that lap somewhat uselessly against a rocky shore.
No, I'm not too hopeful there will be a beach anytime soon.
New forum/old forum
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that in Breaktime's heyday, back around the turn of the century, the internet was new to many of us. Just the ability to sit in front of a computer and communicate with others around the world about building was an amazement.
I (and I suspect others) felt a connection with a bunch of people who were at least interested in many of the same things I was. Must have been what the old ham radio folks experienced when they found a "friend" in a far off land back in the 50's.
In the years since the early 2000's the internet has evolved and there are tons of new ways for people to make similar connections, keep up with the goings on of new and old aquaintances alike.
My point is, no matter what the software, or corporate policies of the hosts, or even handedness of moderators, those free wheeling, rolicking, half drunk, too stoned, world weary discussions and flat out arguments we all remember fondly are pretty much gone, and with all the choices we have, I don't see that changing much.
There's certainly some truth in what you've said. I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head in describing how times have just changed.
I do think a forum can survive. It won't be like the good old days, I agree, but I believe a forum directly attached to the magazine's mainsite will cater to a different audience than a Facebook Group. I'm not against Facebook Pages and Groups, but they simply aren't the same as a forum. Some people will use both, but they overall audience will be different and how and why they use them will be different.
Welcome to the fray Matt
This forum was a freak show of talent back in the day. Forget when I showed up. '97 or so give or take a year?
Times change. We posters have changed. The Romans have changed the magazine. And this forum has certainly changed.
I'm so grateful when I see a name from the yonder days post. I'm thrilled that Big Cal wields the large mallet so he can play whack-a-mole with those crazy cabinetmakers from across the pond.
Biggest thing has to be the software. The forum is slow. Painfully slow. It's clunky. It takes way too long to sign in and find a page of new threads/posts. Way too long. Do I want "instant"? I'd like it. But I'd simple settle for "better than clunky".
Here's your approach at the next big round table meeting at Taunton Headquarters:
Since the magazine is all about eco-friendly, LED lights, and blah blah, think of how much eco-friendlier the forums could be if the forum ran faster. Less electricity used per click. Government grants would have to follow and money would flow into Taunton's coffers were this platform to become more eco-friendly. And heck, with CL&P upping their utility rates in Connecticut by another 20 or 30% over the last year? Why, I could surf the fine pages of Breaktime for longer without my electric meter spinning round and round.
Tell Sue Roman a faster platform for this forum will equate to "eco-friendly" and you'll be on your way to riches. Blueberry riches. Maybe even with whipped cream.
If you make this place faster...they will come. No cornfield required.
Matt
Look here:
Options for New Surface Over Plywood Deck
Barshfield
example of frustrating features
so for the past week, the navigation has been covered over by sping sale banners on the left and the right. you have to reload the page to make them disappear (and then I can click on "recent posts" which is the best way to navigate content). But as I try to do that, the Home Depot ad pops up in the middle. Took me three minutes to navigate over to this thread so I could post. Taunton can do better than the model of the ad-ridden clickbait sites
GO GO GO GO!
Just a little cheering on! I thought the banner was just on my end. Is it also the case that others find the site different for different devices? I view in the web browser all the time, but the site works differently depending on which device I'm on.
Yes
Different devices do different things................
or should I say, different browsers do.
I.E. On our desk, different than Safari on iPad.
and still no auto capitalization on this iPad as I change lines.
technology?
Hey Matt - go take a look at the bridge thread, a few folks from John's delphi bt3 site (John, Forrest, Ron, self, others) have piled on to try to make that thread look a little like the 'old fhb' and gerenate some interest.
Lots of interaction, great photos, actual bridges built, 'flaming', different opinions, etc.
ps: note intentional spelling errors, may generate additional negative comments about whatever?
But the name-calling in that thread is pretty bad (even for the old Breaktime). I doubt that it seems "attractive" to those who are "just visiting".