I’m running 1/2″ copper tubing along a concrete wall and I need to use clips to hold it in place. I purchased tapcon screws to fasten the clips and upon drilling the holes the drill bit burned out after sinking it about 1/4″. I have about 18 holes to drill about 1 1/4″ deep. The concrete drill bits sold under tapcon runs about $4.50 ea. and at this rate it will cost me a small fortune to complete the pre-drilling as well as hours to drill. I must be doing something wrong; any ideas?
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Replies
Tell us a little more- are you using a hammer drill, a normal drill, or a rotary hammer? A normal drill won't do very well in concrete, you'll need to buy or rent a hammer drill for that many holes. a rotary hammer (larger and more emphasis on the hammer part) like a bosch bulldog would be even better- it would only take a few minutes and one bit should do it easily.
zak
Thanks all, I rented the hammer-drill and it worked like a charm. I sincerely appreciate it! On to the next project.
The trouble could be a number of things. First off, if you are using a standard drill, it will burn those bits out very quickly. You need a hammer drill. I've also found that overheating the bit will cause it to fail very quickly. To avoid this, periodically take the drill bit out of the hole and dunk it in water, or keep splashing water on the hole. If the bit is glowing, its probably as good as dead.
Another possibility (although unlikely at a 1/4" depth is you hit a chunk of rebar. More likely is that you hit a large piece of the aggregate. A Tapcon bit with a hammer drill will still blast through aggregate, however it will take longer.
Here are a few options to consider. Rent, buy, or borrow a hammer drill ($150) or rotohammer ($200). If you get a rotohammer, buy a good bosch bit. Another possibility is to fasten the pipe with a powder actuated tool. They are pretty cheap ($30.00), and basically use a .22 blank to fire a nail into the concrete. This probably isn't the best option for securing water lines. I would pre drill the holes, then use concrete anchors.
--Andy
On a side note, if the wall is hollow concrete block, I wouldn't recommend using tapcon screws. You pretty much need an impact driver to install them. Actually I generally don't like them in any circumstance (their one big advantage is easy removal). Medium duty concrete anchors are a better bet.
http://www.confast.com/products/metal-hit-anchor.asp
They are very quick and easy to install, and provide a nice positive hold.
Here in Israel, 98% of work is done with concrte, and there aren't that many choices for wall anchoring. I saw that you guys mentioned tapcon, and all i could see from their site was that it was without a sleeve. So is this something that grips the concrete, or am i missing something. I do make periodic trips to the Shrine of Home Depot, or whatever comprehensie builders' store I can reach whenI get to Chicago, but bringing in large quantities poses a problem. Still, if I can eliminate a drilling problem, it's worth a try. By the way, I always pilot drill with 4 mm masonry bits, before i go for the required caliber hole. It really reduces stress on the hole drilling, and I only burn out those small bits during long stretches of use. I often have to drill through 15 inch walls, and I use a Bosch hammer drill. However, I've used a few cheapie rotary drills to do the job, with more than satisfactory results. Bosch is big over here, and I've found it an awesome tool.
a Tapcon is a screw that is threads it's self directly into concrete using a piolet hole of 5, 7 or 9/32" and / or 3/16" dia depending on if you are using 3/16" or 1/4" screws and fastening to cinder or cement block, new, resonably cured or New York City concrete.
substance + screw size = piolet hole size.....
done right - they won't pull out... or near impossible to...
there are dozens of brands of CC screws... Tapcon (best known I guess) being a GP reference like Kleenex or Saran Wrap...
Goggle concrete screws and you'll see what I mean...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
thanks for the info. I've got a contractor friend bringing over containers of building materials, maybe he'll include some of these screws. Would save me a lot.
I hope Bosch catches what you said...
Bosch make anchor drive systems (accessory) for their hammer drills for concrete screws...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Bosch Bulldog...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hey!
IMERC!SamT
couldn't resist mentioning Bosch...
how ya been bud????Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ditto on the bosch bulldog...cant be beat for drilling in crete...
damn...that rhymed!
think I could sell it to bosch and make some royalityes??
....eh...me either...knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
< I have about 18 holes to drill about 1 1/4" deep. >
Sound like you are usings 1 1/4" tapcons, if so your hole
needs to be approx. 1" deeper than the screw that you are
using and the shortest tapcon I've ever seen is 1 1/4".
Read the directions that come with the tapcons, the hole has
to have a place for the debris to fall off into or it just
binds up when screwing into the concrete.
I have drilled literly hundreds of these types of holes with a plain ole' cordless drill . hammer drill is nice , but any drill will do just fine ,just take a little longer per hole
(we used to do it with a stanley push drill and carbide bit before the days of cordless )
tapcon bits are expensive and not particularly rugged ,two alternitves . plain old plastic anchors check the electrical section greenlee makes a kit with a bit and 50 screws and anchors for less than 10 or so . or just buy the bit , anchors and screws seprate
a new product wev'e been using are walldog's , like tapcons they dont require a anchor but unlike tapcon they work with any carbide bit a nice thing with the walldog is they also work well in drywall
Probably you're hitting pieces of stone in the concrete. Remove the bit and use it as a punch (or use the old, burned out bit) to crack the stone. (Poor man's hammer drill.)
There's nothing especially unique about the Tapcon bits, except that they're better than average quality and sized to the fasteners. You can use a regular masonary bit of the same diameter.
Wetting the hole will help lubricate and cool the bit (though then you have to work harder to keep it cleaned out).
A hammer drill will certainly work better, and it might be wise to rent one (or even buy a relatively cheap one) if you have 18 holes to do.
happy?
There's nothing especially unique about the Tapcon bits
Sometimes they are an odd size, not the common sizes available in the big stores.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You've already gotten plenty of good advice, but FWIW, I've melted "lesser" masonry bits using a hammer drill -- switched to the Bosch Blue Granite brand bits and its like having a box of holes on hand.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I'm probally going to get stoned for saying this, but...
You might want to check out the rotary hammers at Harbor Freight. I picked one up about a year ago, and it's worked okay, expecially for drilling holes for tapcons. I think I paid about fifty bucks for the thing, so as long as it gets me through my basement, I'm happy.
Incidentally, it makes a great tile scraper. Put it a flat chisel blade, and go to town.
I was just going to say that myself! Harbor freight is a great place to get a "cool tool" for VERY cheap. You can get a 1" rotary hammer at the hardware store for $250 - $400... or you can buy one on sale at Harbor Freight for $59!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Check out used tools, too.
About a month after I bought that rotary hammer from Harbor Freight, I found a guy selling a used Milwaukee "hammer drill." I called the guy up, and found out that he actually had a 1 1/2" Milwaukee spline drive, variable speed, rotary hammer. I paid a hundred bucks for it, in a metal case, with five bits. I can't say I've actually used it to drill any holes, yet (I'll pick up a spline to three jaw chuck adapter one of these days for small holes), but it did a gread job breaking some concrete around some cleanouts in the basement.
>>"I'm probally going to get stoned for saying this, but... You might want to check out the rotary hammers at Harbor Freight."
Yeah mon -- good a reason as any for some ganja. Oh, never mind; I see what you mean. ;-)
I also have the cheapie, er inexpensive HF 1" SDS rotary hammer and it actually works (much to my surprise). Something I use very infrequently so I took a chance. Worked out for me too. No where near as heavy and powerfull as a Bosch 1" SDS (former boss had one and it was a barrel of holes with a cord), but no where near as expensive either.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Glad to see someone else admit that the HF rotohammer is a good tool. Some of their stuff is junk, but for the price, this rotohammer is a heck of a deal. I've used mine to sink 9 inch red head bolts no problemo.
I did have to go rent a Hilti to punch 3 inch holes through a foundation, though. The Hilti made the HF look like an old cross-point drill and a hand sledge.........
The Hilti was $1800+, though....so I guess you do get what you pay for......
Don't mean to hijack the thread but I have to drill about 35 5/32" holes in concrete tommorow and my brother in law borrowed my cordless hammer drill's battery charger. Normally I'd be able to zip through the job with that tool but since I won't have it available tommorow I was wondering if there are any tips that you guys could give me on using the regular drill for this? How much pressure to apply, speed, brand of bit, should i drill a smaller hole first, etc...? I could rent a hammer drill for the day but would prefer to avoid that.
-Ray
stady pressure and don't let the hole load up with dust..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
plan on taking 10 times longer - I can still remember the pain & it's been several years since I got the hammer drill
If the drill seems to stop cutting you've probably hit a hard pebble. Stop and punch the pebble (to crack it) with a hammer and another drill bit (or a small star drill). Otherwise, steady, quite firm pressure a low rotation rate, and keep the dust cleaned out.Have several drill bits on hand. You'll probably need 3-4 standard duty masonary bits, though a lot depends on the nature of the concrete. Actually, for that small size you may want a few more than that, as you're apt to snap off one or two.For 5/32" you probably don't want to drill a smaller hole first, unless these holes need to be precisely sized (as for shieldless anchor screws). In that case you should start with a 1/8" bit, or maybe smaller if you can find it.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Of course, if your hammer drill is fully charged you should be able to do those holes on one battery.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Thanks for the helpful suggestions...I ended up getting the first 35 with my regular 14.4 cordless and a couple battery changes. The first bit is actually still doing OK as the floor is a terrazo floor over concrete, I'm switching over to a new one first thing tommorow though. I got about 7 holes out of my cordless hammer before the battery died, it was about half the time as the regular cordless, maybe a bit less per hole. I'm thinking of springing for a corded hammer drill tommorow and getting rid of the cordless hammer as I don't really use the battery system it's on anyway.
Thanks,Ray
what kind of drill are you using. you need a hammer drill.
Most of the posts are correct about you needing a hammer drill. You will burn up any masonry bit with a regular drill unless you are drilling into a softer type substance. You don't need a Tapcon bit, they are designed for use in the Tapcon installing tool. If you go the hammer drill route get yourself a SDS shank bit of the proper size, you should be good to go. FYI most bits of this kind are designed to be used dry only. Luck.
After using a bosch hammer drill you'll wonder how you lived without it.
Amen to that...
Right,Sorry if this has already been said - scanned and didn't see it - but the "sds" type hammer drills (like the Bosch Bulldog)pack a bunch more wallop than the old "ratchet" standard chuck type.We welded a "sds" shaft on an old chuck and the Bulldog "blew it to pieces" in seconds.
while I have rented hitis when needed and do like my milwuakee hammer drill I still maintain that the OP can drill 18 holes to hang his pipe with any non-hammer drill and one inxpensive carbide bit in less time that it would take to rent or buy a hammer drill.it sounds like a one time thing and for the occasinal user no need to put the money into the hammer drill (unless of course your looking for a excuse to buy new tools )
this is a retrosexual thing... you needn't apply...
As any woodworker/carpenter/construction guy knows. You can't use "do I need it?" as a criteria for buying a new tool. Whether or not you'll even ever use it is besides the point! For all you confused people out there, I will give you the listed reasons for buying a new tool straight from "The Man Bible" Chapter 35 Section 72 Subsection D Paragraph 23 states:
You simply buy a new tool because:
a) It's there
b) You can
I hope this has cleared up any questions any of you may have for buying new tools, and hopefully relieve some of the guilty feelings you may have about purchasing that new tool with the money you should have spent on a new dishwasher for your wife.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
well if that where the case the thread should have been "I needed to drill a hole in concrete so I just spent 489.00 on a Hammer drill "at which point everyone could have waxed on as to what a good move it was becouse he might have to drill another hole some day ....
Edited 3/14/2006 10:09 am ET by skip555
yur catching on...
SDS Bulldog is only 170$ or so....
the 5 bill model comes latter....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
BTW... is that copper tube you are hanging in direct contact with the concrete????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hi Y'all:
I have drilled many many holes in our concrete foundation for either hold-downs or for rebar. At first we rented a rotary hammer at Home Depot, but then we bought our own (gotta love the power tools) as it was far more economical to purchase than rent.
Some of the hold-downs required a 1 1/8" diameter hole to be drilled down 10" into the wall, others holes were more tame since they were for #4 rebar. If you are going to rent the tool, be sure to ask the people at the rental desk to give you the bits with the tool. When we rented the first time, the guy didn't tell us the bits were included, so we bought the bits. It was only when we returned the tool that we found out the bits were included. Needless to say, we were peeved.
We purchased a DeWalt rotary hammer and it's great. It's practically effortless as the tool (the rotary hammer, regardless of the brand) does the work for you. I particularly like the way it starts out - it turns to gauge/mark the spot, but it doesn't start "hammering" until pressure is put on the tool. I also love the depth stick that shows when you've hit the desired depth.
Blowing the concrete dust out of the hole is brutal even when I wear my respirator mask and as always, safety glasses (and bandana to keep the hair clean). I saw a very clever idea that a reader wrote to either FH or (God forbid I should be reading this... !) another homebuilding magazine: Instead of blowing out the dust, hook up a copper high pressure water spray fixture to a piece of copper pipe, then step it up with a connector so that you can connect the pipe to your shop vac. Then tape a piece of surgical tubing to the end of the fixture, and insert the tube into the hole to suck out the dust instead of blowing it out. I haven't done this, but it sounded like a great idea.
Be sure to wear your ear protection when drilling through concrete. I always protect my ears and have very good hearing, and when I drill concrete, it is super loud and hurts my ears.
Drilling the concrete holes has become one of my regular tasks in our remodel (we're acting as the contractors and do quite a bit of hands-on work along with our many subs).
BTW, I'm a chick... :-)
Oink!
If I'm lucky and remember to bring my vac, I keep the nozzle to the hole as I drill, and i catch the dust coming out, tho the decrease in nozzle size with the copper tubing, et al, may be a bit neater. I stopped wearing ear phones cause I realized I lost my hearing from my 12 kids. :-)
Welcome... chick...
I see you have already pulled up chair... enjoy the ruckus....
fergot to say fasten yur seat belt if you already haven't and fill out yur profile...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 3/15/2006 3:04 am by IMERC
Off subject, but you seem like a perfect candidate for KPIG radio 1510 AM or on the web at kpig.com Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
"The best things in life are either illegal, immoral, or fattening."
:-)
or very expensive...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hi Tsquared, IMERC, RuffMike, Trout and all the other nice folks on this forum:
Thank you for your nice replies to my first post.
I look forward to many more great exchanges on this forum. BTW, I must get a job at KPIG after we finish our remodel... :-)
and I love the "and expensive" addition to my favorite quote!
Oink!