Hi Everyone,
I’m new to the forum. My husband and I just bought a 1970’s center hall colonial that we plan to redo from top to bottom. My first problem with the house is that the front door actually touches the first step of the staircase when you walk in. What are some options for reconfiguring a staircase so that we have more of an entryway? It’s the first impression that you get when you walk into the house and I’d like to make it seem more formal and much less cramped. My husband suggested that it might be easier to relocate the front door than it would to move or reconfigure the stairs, but I think that would throw off the whole look of the exterior. Any suggestions on where we might start?
Thanks so much for your help. I’m sure I’ll have a million more questions as we make our way through the reno.
Replies
Mandy, your pictures are too big. Try going back and calling them up yourself. By having to move the sliders in order to see the rest of the picture, we lose your intent.
There are size reduction programs in about any photo editing software. Try for about 80 to 100 KB in size and save in a .jpeg format. Try for a 4 x 6 size picture.
The boys on dial up will love you for it.
Resized:
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Re-Resized (didn't notice the earlier ones were still too big.)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Your fist try was OK, but I want her to learn this sizing thing. This looks like a project with lots of potential.
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"Your fist try was OK."
I routinely resize to 33%, which is what I did the first time, and I get 100K (or thereabouts) files. Aftger your post, I looked again and I saw they were twice that. Phew, them were some bigguns!
I butted in 'cause I'd love to see what folks here can do with this one. Seems to me turning the stairs will pretty much wreck one room and make it all about the stairway. Best I could come up with is to add a bumpout enclosed entryway.
Or maybe Stan could put a winder in. (But then her door trim would never get finished. LOL!)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Hey guys, thanks so much for your kind words. My husband and I jumped on the house because we saw the potential but it's so challenging to try to pull all the little pieces together. Going forward I'll take my pics on a lower quality setting so they're not quite so big...rookie mistake!
When you say "winder" are you talking about a curved staircase? I was just re-thinking and I thought that maybe if we take that entire wall out to the right of the staircase, and then gently curve the bottom half of the stairs so that they dump out just onto the edge of the living room instead of directly in the doorway. Doing that along with switching up the swing on the door might take care of the problem, no? The only thing is that I'm guessing all that custom woodwork on a curved staircase doesn't come cheap.
Just thinking out loud...please let me know if anyone has any better suggestions. Also, we planned to do a majority of the work ourselves, but do want to use a GC/builder for the shell of the additions so if anyone knows of a good guy in the southeastern pa area , feel free to message me with the info. Thanks!
Edited 4/7/2009 8:40 pm ET by MandyK83
A winder is a set of stairs that gradually turns a corner.View ImageAndy Engel wrote an article in the most recent FHB about winder stairs.A winder may work, but my concern would be the headroom issue. What is above and adjacent to the stairwell on the second floor?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Is there some restriction that does not allow an outswing door? Realize it must have adequate landing, etc.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I am absolutely interested in helping you. Since you plan lots of work you really need a total overall plan before starting anything, IMO. So pictures of whole house or a floorplan sketch will help.
But there is now way I can begin to look until you learn to resize photos to something practical - under 200kb file size.
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Looks from pics you could change door swing.
Thanks for your prompt responses. I am working on resizing pics and uploading the floor plan. Stay tuned...
Maybe you could put in a landing about halfway down, and turn the bottom half of the stairs into the room? It looks like a pretty big room, and it would also create an entry hall area separate from the room.
>>My husband suggested that it might be easier to relocate the front door than it would to move or reconfigure the stairs,
He's right.
>>but I think that would throw off the whole look of the exterior.
Depends on how well it is designed
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
You are right on.
Some sort of portico entrance, well designed and executed. Perfecto
Is a portico only a type of awning with columns or is it actually enclosed? I suppose we could add on a small room to the front so that we could extend the entry hall.
What did you mean about the upstairs?
Hi Mandy,
A portico need not be enclosed but using some architectural detailing would allow you to pull the door out off the house without it being so noticeable or your suggestion of an enclosed porch could work too.
If you look at the upstairs floorplan and imagine yourself walking up the reversed stairs you wind up somewhere difficult.
s.
I'll have to look into the Portico. Yeah, the reverse stairs would definitely not work with the upstairs floorplan. Maybe a split flight? I'll have to mess around with some layouts and see if I can come up with something.
I loaded all the before house pics on shutterfly, no account needed to view.
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AcOGTdo3btWLCpg
Please let me know if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks so much!
I've run into a few designproblems like this one. Turning the stairs sideways into an "L", with a landing will not work, as you'll lose headroom as soon as you turn away from the stairwell opening. Reversing the stairs would require major floorplan mod's on borh levels. If setback requirements, zoning ,etc. allow, bringing the entry out as an portico makes most sense. Make it a larger gable that proportions better with the rest of the home. The entry will now be a vestibule, perhaps with a bench and a coatrack. Carry the gable forward to provide a sheltered area between 2 columns.
Ben
Okay, here are some pics. I put them all in an album so it's easier to view but let me know if I should shrink and upload individual pics instead. I thought maybe seeing the whole house would give you a better idea of how things flow. I also attached pdf's of the floor plan, sorry the room descriptions are mirrored...the floorplan is accurate otherwise.
To give you an idea of the ideas we've been tossing around, we're thinking about putting on two additions split into 2 phases. The first addition would be on the entire back of the house and would include a new expanded kitchen with walk in pantry, large island with seating and a great room with casual dining and living area.
The second phase of the project would be to go up over the garage and add a 4th bedroom and then somehow reconfigue the layout to increase the size of the master to add a larger master bath, larger closet, dressing area and sitting area. We are really just getting starting so any ideas or suggestions you have would be much appreciated. Thanks!
http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/mandyross89/House/
Ah crud, I didn't realize you needed a photobucket account to view the album.
Anyone know of an easy way for me to get all the pics to a central location so everyone can see without having to sign up for anything?
Could you simply reverse the stairs? Structurally, there should be no problem. Of course, if you have a basement stairwell under the one shown, that might make things "interesting".
If you could reverse the stairs, the area under the stairwell would make a fine entry storage area.
Even more interesting upstairs!!
"Even more interesting upstairs!!"
whoops! Never mind! (As he hides his head in embarrassment!)
The house has no basement so that's not a concern. I suppose we could reverse the stairs though I've never seen anything like that. Tried googling for images and am coming up with nothing.
I did think about putting in a landing halfway and turning the bottom half into the living room, but it would dump out into the middle of the room...would that look odd?
with the floorplan in mind, you could have a landing, turn stairs into the room, then have another landing and turn them again away from door, if there is the space.
Or, lose the wall and turn the stair the opposite way, into the den.
Portico sounds nice, but since I'm not a pro, i don't see how doing exterior work is easier than redirecting the stairs...
Thanks msm, I do think there would be room to turn them towards the back of the living room but I guess we would loose the storage under the stairs. Turning them into the den is a good option though the room is small already.
Good grief, this is why people pay architects, lol.
...or...
start the stairs at a right angle to their current orientation, against back wall of LR. Continue entire way or add a landing and switch back to opposite direction; I'd at least do a landing near bottom for last one or 2 steps. Closet would be moved under new stairs
I sketched this up before I read your response. Does this look strange to you?
I'll try to draw up your idea.
Lol about the architects. My husband wouldn't allow me to hire one anyway. He's too proud of a diy-er.
Your sketch looks fine, given that working in the existing limited space, there's no perfect solution. I mean, you may regret those angled steps. Many people find them difficult.Turning the stairs at a 90 degree angle along the back wall makes most sense to me, Access under-stair closet space from den. although that might be a huge deal to change the orientation of the opening between floors...
Portico does sound nice, but looking at your exterior, I'm afraid enclosing what is there would feel too small and still crowding the door opening too. At least the front door wouldn't hit the step...
good luck with whatever you decide.Fireman's pole.
Ha! The fireman's pole is the best idea yet!
See attached, is this what you meant? I would just need to figure out how this would affect the upper lever. It seems it would eat into the floor space of the master bedroom. I guess I could push it into the living room more and then we would just need to build out a floor for the upper landing over where the old steps were.
Good grief, this is why people pay architects, lol.
No... People pay architects because they don't know about this forum. =D~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
I am just now getting back to looking at this and catching up on all the input. May be later this evening before I have time to focus on it.Thanks for putting up more infoYou need to do some planning on how you want to use the house to throw out here. Form follows function and all that...The oft held idea of a den is a quiet private place for study or office work. So turning stair that way would open it and lose that privacy.Some of the other suggestions I've read so far are very expensive re location and re-framing structural. How much do you plan to spend on this project?What other thoughts do you have about changes for the house? All should be incorprated into a PLAN, even if they are done one at a time.Yes, this is why God invented architects
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Here are my thoughts as of now briefly,What you have is a decent layout of a faux federal center hall with econo trims and detailing.The one big flaw is the location of the stairs. This whole house would have been far nicer if a couple feet larger to let everything balance better. Even the rise/run of the stair is max pitch now But it has potential.Moving the stairs would be expensive and rob even more from other living spaces.So dealing with this at entry is the best solution. The only problem that presents is losing symmetry at the exterior elevation.So I would definitely approach this by adding an enclose pedimented porch as suggested previously. You can move the door over now towards living room and perhaps swing it out into the porch space. Then the porch itself remains centered and the new door in it would also center there for symmetry. Done right, this can be a very eye pleasing decoration and inviting entry. One of the previous posted photos was quite ugly.
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Just a dumb question. Was the home built this way originally? Can't imagine a builder/owner/architect agreeing to have the door hit the steps. If you remove the carpet from the bottom step, will the door swing free? Sometimes the simplest is the best solution.
Okay, so I slept on it and I'm not loving the portico idea. I just can't seem to find any examples where I think this looks good. The attached picture is the best sample I could find and I'm not crazy about it. If we're going to spend the money, I want to love it.
I'm not very concerned with a relocation or reconfiguration of the stairs eating up too much additional space as we're planning on adding-on at least 1000 sq. ft. anyway. Why would relocating/reconfiguring the steps be so expensive, what exactly is involved aside from materials? We may find that we have to replace the steps anyway after ripping up the nasty carpet and seeing what's underneath. What would a new staircase run, maybe $10K for top of the line stuff? I know nothing about this, please educate me.
As an alternative to moving the stairs, what if we did flip the door with one of the windows as someone previosly suggested, and then we just changed the architectural style to something more contemporary when we re-side the whole house after adding the rear addition? Thoughts?
Someone asked about budget...our preliminary budget for the rear addition is about $60k with a GC doing only the foundation and framing, etc. We would fit up the kitchen and great room ourselves (cabinets, counters, flooring, paint, lighting, HVAC, etc.) and by the time we got to that point we would have additional cash to spend on the project.
Our goal is basically to make this house into a 4 bedroom 3.5 bath with large gourmet kitchen, attached great room, large master suite with wic, dressing area, sitting area, large master bath with separate shower/tub, double sinks, etc. We'd also like a formal dining room, a small office and a small room for some exercise equipment. After putting on the additions, we'll also re-side the house so that everything ties together and we'll eventually add a deck coming out of french doors off the great room. We realize this is a huge undertaking that will be a process over the course of a few years. We would need to keep the entire renovation under $150K for the house not to be the most expensive home on the block.
Please feel free to pass along any additional suggestions. I really appreciate any help or guidance you can provide. Thanks!
Edited 4/8/2009 2:16 pm ET by MandyK83
Oops, forgot to post the pic of the portico. Here you go.
Okay, so I exagerated a bit. The door actually does swing freely but it comes within maybe an inch of the steps. We would definitely be removing the carpet anyway but I'm more concerned with the house having more of an entrance.
Redoing the stairs as an L may only be an option for you if you can afford the L-shaped hole in your floor deck above that will be required.
A staircase must be thought out in 3D, all to ensure that you have the code-minimum headroom above, as you traverse up and down.
You have said that your remodel plan now includes an additional 1000 sf of living space. No small investment. A good architect, or builder with excellent design capabilities, might be your best small piece of that investment.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Yes, we definitely need to add sq footage. The current house is only about 1800 sq. ft. It's the only one on the block that doesn't have an addition of some kind, some are executed better than others but no one has really changed anything in the front. I'm guessing they all had the same problem and couldn't come up with a solution.
Gene, I would love to hire someone else to lay this whole thing out for us but I can not convince my husband that it would be money well spent. He is an engineer and thinks we can pull it off ourselves. Hopefully he is right and we don't botch it :)
Tell him that engineers are wonderful. I'm one and I ought to know.
Some of them can actually design house addition schemes.
He might be talked into buying and learning how to use a design software package. Something like Chief Architect's Better Homes and Gardens Home Designer. It is the detuned version of Chief, and might serve you very well for your addition job.
See my "dogtrot" thread here in this forum, for what can be done in just a few hours, starting from some scratches on napkins. That is a few hours, once one is up to speed.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Looks interesting though I would probably be the one designing. My other half acts more as our builder/strutural guy. Just read a few reviews on Amazon which were positive for the most part except for some quirks with window placement and attic space. Which version do you use?
I use v.10.08a, which is from 2006. You can probably score a fully licensed copy by shopping eBay, since it is two upgrades old.
From what I understand, the BH&G setup is quite capable.
Some of my posts in this discussion folder from a few weeks ago, show some more images, but plenty can be seen at Chief's website.
Even a structural engineer (my specialty) can work it.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
A lot to get into with one post here...let's try a few items...."Why would relocating/reconfiguring the steps be so expensive, what exactly is involved aside from materials?"
When designing a house, one of the first things to locate is the stairs. Traffic approach to it and structural support all flow around that opening. So a different configuration can mean moving or removing a wall. That generally entails dealing with other mechanicals at the least, such as wiring and plumbing contained in that wall, possibly ductwork as well. That would be with the simpler wall along the stairs. If you rotated them, you get into cutting floor joists that are part of the floor system above so you need to deal with supporting those ends with beefy headers and or structural walls to foundation.You also need to learn to think on two levels, upper and lower both at the same time so your headroom is not cutting a hole in the floor in a room where you don't want it to. There have been a couple suggestions made so far that would have rendered a third of your upstairs unusable or needing re-alignment, making each of those spaces smaller. A lot of different things like that are easy when building new, but not at all cheap or easy when remodeling.The porch front in the attachment is very close to what I had in mind, so if that displeases you, it would certainly mean another approach.I would not begin to discuss a price just for stairs because there are so many other things involved. Could do it for five grand but I can see ways that it might be fifty grand.As for the addition of over a thousand sq ft for less than 60K, with remo in the existing I think you may be getting in over your head, even with doing much of your own work.The braintrust here at BT can help guide you along the way a lot, but we don't print money. That is the governments job
;)
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Thanks for you input Piffin. I didn't mean to imply that $60k would even nearly cover the scope of what we want to do. We're hoping that we'll get the shell of the addition built for that and then we would finance the additional projects with our own income as well as our HELOC as we went along.
I am going to continue search for inspiration pictures of front entryway additions that could pull the door away from the stairs. My husband seems to think he could complete that job rather easily and inexpensively versus getting into that mess with the stairs.
Thanks all for your help. I'll keep you posted!
What if you were to convert the existing one door opening to a two door? Let the left door be your main opening door, obviously swinging the other way. This may give you the clearance your need, while adding a nice large opening for moving furniture into both upstairs and main floor.
Not bad. Not bad at all!
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Except that it changes a center entry to one that is not-so-center.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
If you are planning an addition anyway; I assume it would be in back. If so add the space so that you can push the stairs back 3-4 ft. Consider creating a passage way to the rear along the LR side of the stairs. The passage could be open or post & beam.
Why muck up the traditional front facade with added porch that doesn't add useable interior space.
Edited 4/8/2009 5:34 pm ET by jimcco
Jim, I love that idea but am afraid what moving the stairs would entail after hearing others respond to this post. I would love to be able to cut through the middle of the house to get to the back kitchen/great room addition though.
You need to view "difficult" in relationship to planned addition. My suggestions are low complexity relative to planned addition. Particularly so if addition would or could be 2 stories.
Let's see what Piffin and some of the other remodelers say viewed as part of a larger back-side addition.
Edited 4/8/2009 7:56 pm ET by jimcco
Moving stairs in existing homes is never easy, even in relation to additions. Remember Piffins post about the fact that you have 2 floors as well as proper headroom. You have to worry about carring the loads and possibly moving headers which can change point loads.
There are a lot of things I would rather do. I thing moving existing stairs is one of the hardest, in an existing house. I am not saying it can't be done, but......
I really think she should find a portico that she could live with.
Every stair move job I have been involved in was a minimum of a three room remodel, just because....and while you are hear....
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That is why I was asking for more info on total house goals. If I were the designer, we'd start there before touching anything.I've seen this scenario so many times already, where the HO did the first thing on the list and only THEN tried to develope a whole house plan. By that time, they had an emotional vested interest in keeping what they had already done whether it was good or bad, forcing the rest of the design to work around the elephant in the room.There could be some very good reasons and ways to go with your idea of pushing this set of stairs back, On the main floor it ois no problem at all. That closet is a goof space anyhow.But on the second floor the stairwell would bisect ther hall and end in what is a bathroom. That bath could convert to hall to the addition second floor.The other thing that would need consideration is whether the addy would want a back family stair into the kitchen space. Or even iof this stair could be totally eliminated in favor of a better placement for family use mid house
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All that said, addressing the stair/door problem should be one of many considerations the OP should put on her list of desires to a designer on the ground. Certinly it should not addressed as an independent first issue.
Yep - that's been my position since the first post in this thread.Well, since the photos got re-sized anyways, LOL
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I agree with hubby too.You must be the artist in the family, eh?
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I havent read the whole thread . I flip houses for a living along with some Ive kept for rentals . Thats put me in arms way of problems just like this. You need to get in and out with out a lot of hassle.
I think I would move the door over with a new door unit with side lights . I dont know how wide that unit is brick to brick but thats what you have to work from. Even making the door 2 inches smaller with a side light did one job just fine although I am a believer in 36 inch entry doors I just bought a 32 inch side light door unit thats 4 ft over all. You probably have 4 ft or more brick to brick.
Of course its gonna change the look of the front of the house but that could be good . They make some expensive /fancy door units that would update it.
Id rather spend money there instead of inside which wont change the wow factor and get the h^ll out of dodge .
Tim
As some of you suspected, there is a 50 foot minimum setback from the property line. We'll have to remeasure but I think we're just about there already. We might have to look at double door options or swapping a door and window.
Stay tuned...
Spiral stairs?
Depending upon what else you do in the accompanying rooms...
"Spiral stairs?"
But make sure all the furniture is already upstairs before you install 'em! ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Good point.
I redid a place once that the third floor loft used to be accessed by a step ladder. The redo included a 42" radius spiral as a replacement. The furniture DW wanted up there was custom and had to be brought up before the stairs. A week ater the redo was done, she got transferred.
Not wanting to give up on this new furniture, we hired a crane to swing it out of the 3rd floor window, once the sashes were removed.
But maybe for Mandy's purposes, a wider radius could be considered? Or another back stairway in this new backyard addition being forecast?
You could petition for a variance on the 50' setback.
"You could petition for a variance on the 50' setback."
That's definately something worth considering. In some areas, these are pretty easy to get, especially if the encroaching structure is something like a porch, and is small, and not the main part of the structure.
I'm still thinkin' portico.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Change the entry door to a window.
Change the bottom step into a "landing/step" so as to dress up things, effectively extending the staircase to the exterior wall, with its new bottom step/landing being about a 48x48 platform. Your new window, where the present entry door is now, can have a nice piece of bump-in millwork done under it, effectively making its sill nice and broad, and its details can complement the new newel post and balustrade your stairs will sport.
Enter the house from the street at the L, where there is presently a window. See if your zoning and such can permit at least as much "projection" as your present entry canopy does ("air rights???") and get approval to build out a portico to shelter the entry that is at least that depth.
While you and your engineer husband are admittedly brilliant, and together disdain what a competent architect can bring to the table, we'll bet that you collectively don't know enough about building and design, to turn this sow's ear into the architectural silk purse you imagine. You need to develop a total program.
Hitting it first with this little stair thing is just so wrong. Step back and do the work of developing a master plan.
Here is some recommended reading.
Not So Big Remodeling, by Sarah Susanka
A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander, et al.
What Not to Build, by Sandra Edelman, et al.
Get Your House Right, by Marianne Cusato, et al.
If you fill in your profile so we can at least know your state, some of us can advise better, knowing how local preferences go with architecture, building practice, etc.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Converting the window at left seems the best way to go, now that the OP has said she's okay with scrapping the colonial design. Low landings are nice, and I like your window idea. Would be nice to open the old door into a wider bay window, and maybe have a window seat w/storage there.
R U sure that 50' setback is from property line?Most common is from center of road on front setbacks, and 50' very common there.
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"They make some expensive /fancy door units that would update it. "
Just my 2¢ -- and what do I know? -- but looking at the pics the OP posted, that would be like putting a Lincoln grill on a VW bug! It would just look like a glued-on gew-gaw and totally out of keeping with the overall design of the house that does not cry out "expensive" or "fancy".
It doesn't sound like they are trying to flip this house, there are a lot of large additions in the neighborhood, biggest lot in the 'hood, yada, yada -- it sounds like they have a fair amount of room to work when it comes to return on investment.
I still think an enclosed portico would be the way to go provided, as others pointed out, that it would comply with setbacks, etc. Just needs a good design that fits the existing architecture and it would not necessarily cost and arm and a leg.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I thought it was an investment project somehow .
It depends on what was bought to what it would make it look like of course for another entry option. I agree the outside isnt very fancy but I havent looked at the options offered . It doesnt have to be fancy . Just sayin she can get a range of things from cheap to very exspensive .
I like your idea . For a flip it isnt very quick or cheap either . Could be very expensive if she takes three trips to planning and zonning to get approved and hires a professional to present it .
On the other hand I dont have the information of what this house is worth , bottom line projections and expected return. She hasnt talked about math at all so we are feeding her ideas with out critical information as it is .
Tim
Yeah . . . I'm liking the idea to get an archi involved at this point, if only just for some basic design direction. As onther poster or two pointed out, the big picture and master plan should be the focus at this point.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Thank you everyone, you've given us lots to consider. After all is said and done, I still favor moving the stairs over adding a porch but I'll have to have my husband check it out to see what's more practical and weigh that against which will be best for us in the long run. I also need to come up with workable floorplans for both the 1st and 2nd floors, and to see where I could bring in the stairs on the 2nd floor if we were to move them.
This is not an investment property nor are we looking to flip, this is our home for the next 20 years, so we're really only interested in what is best for the long-term and what will make us happy, not what other buyers are looking for in our area. I realize there are some changes that we'll make to the house that will have mass appeal and will bring a full ROI and there will be others choices, like gourmet kitchen appliances, that will not have a good return. We are okay with that as we're the ones that have to live with them for a good chunk of our lives.
As far as the data for the area, the homes on this block go from the low to high 400K's, we bought in the low 300K's. The improvements in the area are mostly back room/family room additions, some people have added a back two-story addition and most houses on the blocks have redone the exterior, have upgraded the landscaping and have good size decks. Some also have basements, ours does not. We did talk to our realtor and he feels that adding a bedroom, a bath and an extended family room as well and redoing the exterior, the landscaping and adding a deck will not price us out of the neighborhood as long as we don't put in more than 150-160K or so. My husband and I plan to do much of the work ourselves so we think this is doable.
I will update you all on how our plans progress. Thanks so much again for all of your help!
Edited 4/9/2009 9:55 pm ET by MandyK83
Well, one thing is for sure. I think we all know now why your house was the only one in the area that hadn't been updated :-)
Good luck!
-Mary
The numerous replies here all seem to involve redesigning the house or at least the stairs, adding an addition....all expensive and complicated. The few (two?) suggestions of changing the door to an out-swing have been ignored. If the complaint is that the door hits the stairs, this seems the simplest, cheapest, most attractive option. It retains the central door, does not require a setback variance, keeps the door big enough to move furniture, and doesn't break the bank. The existing door could be re-worked, or a more energy-efficient door could be substituted. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best....? Sue
It's still a crowded and awkward design having the stairs end right there. I'd prefer not to have my wood door swing out, and it would not allow for a security/storm door.
We can do any thing with our money we choose . If we want to invest it or blow it or somthing between , we seem to make those decisions every week at least . I know I do and its more like every day for me .
I dont really like what the your realator said , but Ill admit first I dont have high reqaurd for realators . In my opinion they are still carpet baggers and are held by no investment . No realator is held accountable and thats the slease of it all with them. They get a half million dollar listing and are in no way held accountable for what they do past that . In the building business we are regulated by performance first or we dont get a pay day. If I dont make the right decsions on a property then I may not get paid at all. The business looks fabulous at times when people hear the success stories but seldom hear the grim stories kept under breath.
If I listened to realators for my business , I would ahve gone broke a long time ago.
Small case in point just happened .
I let my wife and realator get together and they came up with a list of things to do after I had the job done . [well the carpet layer is not there yet ] I spend 3 grand on materials for what they wanted done and worked a small crew a week . Now Im gonna be there a couple more days by myself to finsih it . Ill put the changes in at 7 thousand dollars . The carpet picked was twice my budjet for a select type of carpet the realator said was IT. I think I have verbally sold the property on the phone to a guy that saw it a month ago before we did any of the extras. If thats true or works out to be so, I might as well took a match and burned 7 thousand dollars . Little difference actually.
In these days and times 7 grand might be the payday on one house . Beats losing 7 grand and wondering where youre gonna get it .
I could go on and on giving hundreds of examples but I wont .
Some rules .
Never ever put your money in someone elses dream.
Never ever think you can do the work your self for nothing . Most of the time it costs more if you counted your labor . If you are willing to work for free give me a call . Ive got a lot of work for you .
Always always count your total investment including your time and mark up. Some people dont think to also add their profit into it as a staple but you cant do it with out it or you will be losing with out knowing it .
Right now according to your post you are being led by what your realator said with out numbers proving it so go ahead and jump off the cliff. People are losing their butt every day on their own home these days . Jump in , the waters fine . I buy repos all the time reflecting the same decisions . We get posts all the time here from people wanting to know what they can do as they are upside down on their house and so on and so on. A lot of them are a somebody done them wrong song but in reality they didnt do their own homework. To leave the math out of this discussion of this project is an assignment not completed.
Tim
Edited 4/10/2009 12:20 pm by Mooney
Edited 4/10/2009 12:25 pm by Mooney
"My husband and I plan to do much of the work ourselves so we think this is doable."I wonder what information you base your "thinking" on.Or if it is more accurate to say that you assume it is doable?
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"that would be like putting a Lincoln grill on a VW bug!"LOL, I was thinking something like that the suspended roof over entry looks like a VW bumper on a Rolls
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I've read through the thread quickly. I don't like the idea of flipping nor redesigning the stairs.
An enclosed portico would be your best bet. Not only would it solve your door/stair problem, but it would also help to create that "more formal" atmosphere that you are looking for.
Folks entering, wouldn't be standing at the foot of your stairs and in the middle of your living room, but rather in a foyer. Great place to slip out of muddy shoes and jacket.....or even good for answering the door without allowing total strangers a peek into your private lives.
From the pics, it looks like you have room for a decent sized foyer. One big enough to accomodate a small closet....maybe a bench and a heating element, which will help cut the draft to the rest of the house everytime the front door is opened.
Won't be cheap....that was the route taken when the house was built....but will be infinetly more livable.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Could you point me in the direction of where I might find some pics of this or exactly what language I might try searching for? I'm googling "enclosed portico" and not coming up with anything. I'm having a hard time visualizing how this would look and how exactly it would move out the front door. Thanks for your help!
here's a beautiful one on a mansion. Pretty large, but that's the style I envision.
http://historicbuildingsct.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/frankcheney.jpgthis one is more appropriately scaled, but on a cape cod, it's a different look.
http://architecture.about.com/od/artsandcrafts/ig/Cape-Cod-Houses/Cape-Cod-with-Portico.htmanother
http://www.cottageindustriesinc.com/projects/additions/portico.html
Thanks so much, I don't know why I wasn't turning up with anything.
I'll have to mull this option over with the boss. I think it would need to be quite a large addition to get the front door far enough away from the stairs. Thank you so much everyone for your help.
I will be sure to post again when we come up with a solution that works. I guess we really need to put more thought into the eventual layout of the rest of the house too. I unfortunately just don't have the kind of vision it takes to see the big picture and put everything together so that it flows nicely. I guess I'll have to depend on the kindness of strangers :)
One think that you need to check any bump out in the front is the required setback from the front property line.That often kills that option, but you need to check it out. Typically the zoning or building department. And also check your dead for any reference to C&R's or homeowners association..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
That could be why nobody else has built a projection in the neighborhood.But here, the stoop and the roof define a space, whether they support it with columns or not. in other words, if setback disallowed an enclosed space there, our ordinance would not have allowed that roof hanging out up there.Good point to bring up for research for her.really funny similar item - There is a place here on island that is on an 8 acre tract. But they built just as close top the road as they possibly could re: setback. Now they want to put a porch roof over the entry.no can do because of poor plannning.Same with their outback. They had assumed they could divie it up and resell a few lots. There is a covenant that goes with the deed though preventing any further subdivision of any of the land there - about ten lots in sizes ranging from 5 - 15 acres each.Again, poor planning. They thought they were going to retire on the money they would make off making their neighbors look at a bunch of econobox spec homes but didn't do a lick of research. They had to sell out because they couldn't afford the mortgage on what they had. Poor financial planning too.
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Put a door in with the opening reversed, with a sidelight to pull it away from the stairs.
My husband seems to prefer a solution moving the door as well, but since it's a center hall colonial, I feel like it won't look symmetrical if the door is off center. Thank you for your suggestion, I'll search though some pictures to see if I can get a better feel for what this might look like.
While an enclosed portico is the best solution so as not to mess with interior space, the problem I have with this specific case is that unless the area is enlarged quite a bit from what is defined by the existing porch roof, the entry will still be awkwardly close to the stairs.
Try something similar to this (but better executed) if you want to keep the door centered.
Mandy,
Out of the box thinking.
How about making the twin window in the living room the front door with sidelites and the existing front door a window. Add a full width porch on the front eliminating the feature above the existing front door.
Chuck S
Here is a quick sketch of replacing the twin windows on the left and building a porch that was suggested in post .41
The front.
View Image
The side.
View Image
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Wouldn't we run into the same setback problem with the porch that we would with the portico? We'll have to look into the variance, maybe talk to the neighbors and see if anyone has tried.
The porch could be as shallow as the existing one, and not be considered an extension (i assume). the main benefit is that a full-length porch changes the entire look of the house and distracts from the door being off-center. Personally, I'd like the porch to continue on around the left corner for a wrap-around look.
If the major issue is the door touching the step, why just not reduce the size of the door? If say the door is a 36", It can be reduced to a 32" and easily clear the stairs.
The most financially reasonable and aesthetically pleasing ideas seem to all be moving the doors rather than stairs. If you are willing to ditch the current architectural style, and if it is legal for the property to be expanded in the front, I think your best bets are to either build an extension out front, either 1 or 2 floors, or to take the window to the left of the old entry door and turn it into the new entry. Disguise where the old door was by possibly adding a pergola or arbor over it, extending over the new door and to the far left edge of house (and maybe going 'round the corner and down the side.)This is why it is by far the smartest thing to hire an architect asap and discuss all your intended changes, short and long term. He/she can possibly kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone.
Baartman, we did think about adding a double door and using the left door as the main door. This still really wouldn't give me the type of formal entry that I want, but it's an option. I'll have to sketch it up and see what it looks like.
Jimcco, you are correct. We are planning an addition on the back of the house. however, we're planning on only one story rather than two. I'd like to vault the ceilings in the great room so don't want to worry about needing to have a second set of steps on the second level that would take you above the raised back half of the first level. Pushing back the stairs a few feet would dump us into the upstairs hall bathroom so I'd have to see how we could rework that space to make it doable. We will eventually go up over the garage to add a 4th bedroom so there will need to be some redesign of the upstairs anyway. We are certainly trying to come up with a game plan for the entire house and are not treating the stairs as an independent issue. We will not start any work until we have a floorplan that works for both levels that we are happy with and have the plans worked out for both additions.
Bill, that is a great point regarding the setback from the property line. We'll have to check out the twp ordinance and see what it says. While it's true that the existing porch roof is already there, if we were going to go that way, I'd want to extend it a few feet further out or I don't think it would even be worth it.
Msm-s, no can do on the architect. My husband and I had another "discussion" about it last night :)
Edited 4/9/2009 9:47 am ET by MandyK83
I am not being facetious, and I hate to ask this question, but I can't help wondering-what is the reason you bought a house that seems to be so completely not what you want?
You have mentioned trying not to over-build for the neighborhood, which is good, and that all the other homes have additions, but are those additions this extensive?
Just curious :-)
Yes, it's very true that the home is not quite want we want but we both think it has the potential to become our dream home. We bought it for several reasons:
1. It was a steal because of the cool market
2. It's on almost an acre of land which is almost unheard of in this area.
3. It's a total fixer so the sky (and our wallet) is the limit. We can choose all our finishes and don't have to live with other peoples choices (except for those darn stairs, lol).
4. It's in a great school district and we going to be starting our family in a few years.
5. The location is convenient to both our jobs, the city and just about anything you could ever want or need.
And yes, some of the additions on the block are quite large. I can't speak to what renovations were made inside the existing structures as I haven't been inside their homes but some of the additions probably double the original sq. footage.
Hope that gives everyone some insight into the choice we made.
I've got one word for you: Elevator.Thanks. those are all good enough reasons. I just bought my house about 6 months ago, and had been looking for a few years. I was considering many houses with the cons mostly being major remodels. Luckily I brought a good friend along for my 2nd or 3rd looks and she talked me out of the big remodel jobs. And then a few months later, I got a great buy on a nearly ideal house that just needed the kitchen gutted, which I'm still in the process of finishing up (because i was too indecisive about what I wanted. I've never had this much leeway before).Sorry that you can't go forward any further on the lot.So, if you intend to enlarge it that much, why not just put a new, nice stair in the new addition towards the center or back and eventually rip out and seal up the abomination you have now?Can you post a sketch of the fist floor plan for the finished "dream house"? how big will the addition be?
Here is a very rough sketch of the first floor, and this would be if we couldn't/didn't move the stairs. The rooms located in the original first floor still needs lots of tweaking but just so you can get a basic idea of what I have in mind for the addition. Please excuse how sloppy it is.
I don't know why that didn't attach. Sorry.
Looks very nice! what would you think of putting stairs in the family room? and what do you think about the idea of turning front door into window and carrying out the stairs with a low landing all the way to the front wall?
Where would they go in the family room? I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're describing, do you mean they would run along the entire left wall?
Not necessarily; they could go anywhere you want them, depending on what works best for second floor. Stairs that open out into a room (not touching a wall on either side) can be fine, as long as you have enough space not to feel crowded, which you have the option of designing in your new addition.
quick google shows this, but you can find more easily:
Talk about classic brainstorming...
Everyone here has brought way to many valid points, most of these though personal experiences. It seems this is how this business works. Education through work experience.
The first thing that entered my mind was setback, second was the entry focal point(stairs). Then came changing a compartmentalized style of an older home into an open floorplan if that is what you desire(I would). After that, was the structural changes that would be needed for the second story if changes are made on the lower floor interior
I see that these issues just the beginning of your "reality check". I meant it this way because we as homeowners are concerned about the sqft and $$$ more than the logistics of the construction industry. I call it the "in theory vs. in reality".
Now, as the contibuters on this site, they are on the reality side of the business. The homeowner is the one that wants it "in theory" because their mind doesn't necessarily accept the experience from the construction trades. This is where the homeowner neeeds to step back and let the experienced trades work out the issues in prioity of the homeowners needs. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell a homeowner why it wouldn't work (in my mind) and they couldn't accept it, even though I was right.
If it is ultimately cost/square footage, then your going to haver to give up alot in the design/function. To me, that is shooting yourself in the foot but it maybe be an acceptable justification to you. This is where the homeowner needs to let go of the reigns to the trades/designers/architechs Nor am I saying that you nor your husband is not capable of doing the structural design, We all have our talents. Just that sometimes we need to have others thinking outside of the box for us. We all must check our egos at the door, except me because I'm never wrong ;->
Maybe it is time to at least consult an architect for a paid consultation and some preliminary design work. This should be a person or firm that is familiar with your area, style of home, your ultimate wants/needs and also someone that can give you a realistic budget cost that you MUST be able to accept and stick to. They may even be able to design it so it can be done in more time/cost effective stages that suit your budget without have to do anything twice.
At the end of this whole project, that should be(in theory) the best money spent.
Also, talk to some very, very knowledgable real estate people as to what is appropriate values at this time, not what you might/could get at a later date. This is how you are going to make money on your investment. Make it now, don't try to justify it later when the market goes up. As you have seen lately, this has been the downfall for a lot of homeowners.
As for my personal opinion to the design issues, I would not spend the money on the exterior facads/portico. I would spend that money on redoing the stairs, if possible. a more open floorplan goes along with my personal tatse. That is my gut feeing and experience.
Stairs, as in steepness for children or the elderly, are a real touchy subject to a lot of home buyers. You may be willing to live with it, but others may not. This I know from personal experience. It killed the deal with a few buyers on my last home.
I will now end my rambling...
Edited 4/9/2009 2:41 pm by migraine
You make a good point about spending the money on interior space vs a porch or portico, which is one reason I'm in favor of putting a new main stair back in the new family room and then just making the old stairs disappear.
However, a nice covered porch would add lots of curb appeal and is a useful space too, for those of us who enjoy our outdoor living spaces.I also get the impression that the OP is spending their budget to bring their home up to the price range of the rest of the neighborhood, not beyond it, which makes sense no matter what the current or future housing market is like. there is also something to be said for upgrading as soon as possible so that they can enjoy their nrenovations for as many years as possible before selling.
I caught on the the budget thing. My reason for mentioning this was that too many times a homeowner thinks thay are bringing their house up to other comps, but they are spending their money in the wrong places. If no one around them is doing anything but cosmetic, other than bump outs in the back,then their value can be way off. Same as for the level of finishes in the home, etc.
Now, as for the exterior. I do agree that the exterior could use a little work, but my thinking was where the money should be spent first. The thinking I had was how does the home fit in with the others in the neighborhood. Along with the fact that they may have setback and non conformining issues that would require time, design, and $$$ to get past this hurdle.
More than one way to skin a home.
I'm in favor of putting a new main stair back in the new family>>>>>...
Take a look back through the posts and you will uncover why that won't work.
It does appear that it would have to turn the big closet on 2nd floor right into the stair entry, but a shallow bump-out closet could be added in that room.
You are very right and explain this very well. I see a couple of very good ways to incorporate her desired on the addition with a rework/move of the stairs that would make the whole thing about twice as nice as her sketch. As drawn now, they are trending towards creating a white elephant should they ever decide to sell it.
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I have some catching up top do on this thread so this may have been talked out already, but the more I see of your comments on what you WANT compared to what this house IS, I think you may have made the wrong investment here. There is so much change needed that it will cost far more to get where you want to go than it would have to just build new, and what is existing sounds all opposite of your dream house. This is all major stuff you are describing, yet you refuse the idea of an archy or designer. good professionals can help you not only design, but analyze whether the project is truly worthwhile to satisfy your dreams.I am not saying this as a negative personal criticism, but to ask you to take a hard look at reality. Your husband is a professional engineer. What would his response be to someone planning to DIY what he does professionally?It can be done, but you are sending out a lot of signals that you are way in over your head on this already.
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Even if there is another 36" entrance to the home, I would advise against shrinking the size of the main entrance.
Besides, the 4" difference would allow for the door to clear the stairs, but wouldn't address the larger issue of being smack dab at the bottom of those stairs when entering.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Exactly. The most affordable solutions don't really eliminate the cramped feeling, so why bother?
>> If say the door is a 36", It can be reduced to a 32" and easily clear the stairs. <<
Most codes require one 36" egress door, which is normally the front door. Code aside, it always nice to have one 36" door for bringing in/out refrigerators, larger furniture, etc.
Yes, a zombie thread awakens!
Yes, the question might be "how did this happen?"
Previously narrower door.
Or it was previously outswing.
Or it was the opposite handing.
Or a vestigial portico was removed, due to water infiltration, etc.
So this is a war of inches... How many inches?
I suggest:
Keep the inswing.
Investigate changing the handing (it might help..).
Consider adding or restoring a vestigial portico with half or three-quarter columns, a roof with a foot's worth of ridge, etc. to get those previous inches.
Or.. a french door, no center astragal (or one that removed), both doors swing, but return to 32 or 34 inches.
Best of both worlds: the doors swing past the stairs, and a huge opening on New Toy Day.
Play around with a cardboard template on the floor... You may find that the swings of a French door (due to jamb relocation) negate interference of even 36 inch doors.
I am going to make some people mad with this post but the truth hurts. the main appeal ofthe stairs this house from what seems like the posters opinion is the neighborhood. From the pictures I have seen the house is just plain ugly. (sorry) The stairs are not the issue. She hates the 70's house. And who dosen't. The reason it was bought at such a "bargain" was that it was below the standards of the neighborhood.
If you really love the neighborhood git rid of the house. Sell it to someone to move or just take a wrecking ball to it. Why spend all of this effort to put lipstick on a pig? In this economy, new construction dollars can go a long way. If the house had great architectural features I would save it, but it needs to be put out of it's misery.
The Truth Teller!
Sorry, Mandy, I agree.
Hey there,
While I very much appreciate your honesty, I hope that one day I can post some pictures that will make you eat your words. I would love to start from scratch but unfortunately there really is no land available to build on in this specific area so new construction is not really an option if we want to stay here, which we do.
The house may not be the best, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be.
Mandy. Back in 04/05 there was a young couple in Mi. that built their place (having a brain fade-believe it was an extensive remodel) with help from this board. They did fine-produced a nice place and hopefully they're still happy. We managed to talk them into coming to NW Oh for one of our Fests. A real nice story if someone can find the threads and provide a link.
At any rate, stay with us here and with any luck you can pull some helpful tips off the pretty knowledgable and mostly encouraging members .
Best of luck.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
My daughter is buying a home with the same problem door touching steps when opening the mian entry door. i would love to see pictures of the out come renovations,in how you resovled the issue .
Take a look at https://www.finehomebuilding.com/forum/help-front-door-opens-onto-stairs?discussion=response#comment-1279331
You called it a center hall colonial, but it looks more like a center STAIR colonial.
Seriously though, It might be nice if you could find a place to relocate the entire stair.