Replies

1. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2005 07:28pm | #1

   In short.... loads above must be supported before you can remove the wall.  Usually this will be done with a beam of some sort (wood, steel, or engineered lumber). 

   Depending on the logistics of the specific job, somtimes the loads are supported via temporary bearing walls inside of the footprint and then the beam is installed after demolition.   Other times the beam is cut in first and posted, and then you're free to demo the wall below when the loads have been taken off the wall.

   To get much more specific than that, I believe we'd need more information.  In the very least, some digital pictures of the home along with some information like which directions the framing above is in relation to wall you're looking to remove.  If you're looking for someone to size the beam for you over the web, you will have a very hard time finding that information.  Sooner or later you will probably need to involve a structural engineer.

   What dimensions are this porch?  I'm assuming it's covered.  It often makes more sense to just demo the porch and start fresh if you're looking to extend the basement as well.  Digging, forming, and pouring, a basement under an existing structure can be far more expensive (even if you use block) than building it from a more conventional approach. 

   I would also make darn sure that the porch floor framing was suitable for your new floor space in it's sizing and condition.  You'll also want to ensure that the new floor space and old floor space will match up in height unless there's an obvious step that you're comfortable with.

   Just some stuff to think about.

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 26, 2005 07:40pm | #3

   I have a couple options in mind how this could be designed - an intriqing challenge - but agree the porch will probably have to come off to getterdone.but I'm afraid that if this is a DIY from design to engineering to erection, we're going to see a premature ejaculation here 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   FastEddie | Dec 27, 2005 06:41am | #6

   we're going to see a premature ejaculation here

   Probably more like E.D.   "Hand me the viagara, Ethyl".

     

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   whaleninc2000 | Dec 27, 2005 02:43am | #4

   Hello Dieselpig,

   No digital photos, I am not that tech savvy yet but I am working on it. In the mean time let me try and elaborate.

   The porch is L shaped, approximately 20' x 12' and is covered by a roof. On one leg of the L the joists run parallel to the exterior wall, on the other leg the joists are perpendicular.

   I am not looking for sizing of beams, bracing etc. I am looking for how to temporarily brace the exterior walls so that existing studs can be cut and resupported. I have one idea where you screw 2 x ? into either side of the studs then post up on either side of the exterior wall and run 2 x? perpedicular to the wall and under the 2 x ? screwed to the studs. Make sure everything is tight, pray and cut out the studs. Also looking for ideas about installing new beam under cut studs, 4 x4 's maybe.

   The way I see the job proceeding is as follows:

   1. Temporarily support porch roof.

   2. Remove porch flooring (in its entirety), remove knee walls and screens.

   3. Excavate new basement, pour slab and foundation walls.

   4. Install framing and sheathing for new exterior

   5. Remove finishes from original exterior walls that are now in the interior.

   6. Install temporary supports on original exterior walls.

   7. Cut out studs (balloon framing).

   8. Install new beam to support cut suds.

   9. Proceed with finishes.

   You are free to comment on all but I am looking for direction on items #6 and #8.

   Thanks,

   JW

1. 
   brownbagg | Dec 27, 2005 05:51am | #5

   hire this one out, do not take the lowest bid. Have an engineer too.. 2+3=7

2. 
   RalphWicklund | Dec 27, 2005 07:55am | #7

   <<6. Install temporary supports on original exterior walls.

       8. Install new beam to support cut suds>>

   You're not asking for very much.<G>

   You want to maintain the original porch roof and its framing. Presumably it's firmly attached to the house, properly flashed, in good shape and totally waterproof. Pics would really help.

   In order to do that and remove a section of balloon framed wall you will need to do a fair amount of demolition just to expose the existing load path and to determine how the ceiling (second floor) framing fits in. Or doesn't.

   You'll need to determine the bridging requirements to the new load paths, whether or not the paths lead to adequate footing and how you go about being sure you have adequate footing. You'll also have to determine your post sizes and their placement in the existing scheme of the framing.

   You'll need to determine the bridging size (a header), whether or not you will want it to be flush or hanging down into your head space and connections, if any, to the existing floor/ceiling joists if they are perpendicular and the proper cutoff of the studs.

   Then, when you know where the new stuff fits in, you can determine how and where your temporary shores or bracing fits in.

   If you have a perpendicular placement of the floor/ceiling joists you will be removing their end support so these will have to be supported independently of the wall. See the attachments.

   Then you will have to support the rest of the wall - to the roof. Perhaps you will have sufficient wall space below the porch roof rafter attachment but above the cutoff point of the studs, to lag on a continuous horizontal ledger under which you can place the vertical supports for the wall and have them far enough outside the working area.

   You have a nice list to accomplish but be sure to think through the actual point by point needs of the job. Nothing worse than having something fall on your head because you forgot a step.

2. 
   Piffin | Dec 26, 2005 07:32pm | #2

   This willl be a very complicated project and it seems as tho the item you are now focussed on is going to be a fairly mild problem in the scope of things. I get the impression you are doing the design work too. Is this right?

   The proper question is to find out WHAT you are going to do, then determine HOW to doit. Since the whole house bears on this wall, the first engineering trick will be how are you going to end up spporting it specifically, then figure a way to go from here to there.

   Also, by extending living space out under a porch, you have roofging issues to keep the water out. That takes up space in the elevations, while the new support structure is likey to require more depth in the same space. This means you have a conflict to resolve.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   JeffBuck | Dec 27, 2005 08:18am | #8

   sawzaw ...

   or a pickup with a strong bumper and some rope.

    

   Jeff

       Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 28, 2005 04:27am | #9

   well, I guess those last two posts balance each other out...;) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   JeffBuck | Dec 28, 2005 07:35am | #10

   I forgot to add ...

   get out the check book and call a pro that knows what he's doing!

   Jeff    Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

1. 
   Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 08:24pm | #11

   Ooo
   Ooo...
   That's good! 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!