I am lossing bids at a much higher precentage rate than a year ago. I realize that the the competition is more fierce. My insurance, workmans comp, fuel costs, etc. is going up. and I assume that this is the same across the board with my competition.
However some group of contractors is low balling jobs by 30% less than I can.
I am assuming that I am lossing bids to Uninsured, unlicensed and ilegal labor contractors.
Any ideas on how to get a good idea of what other remodlers are charging?
Profit Margins, Overhead, Labor cost
Buy the way I am in the north east metro Detroit area
Replies
Hiya Mick....
While my contracting career is just in it's infancy, my experience in highly competitve businesses is not. I can't help you with the question of competitive prices for your area, but I'd suggest that to some extent it isn't the entire issue.
Assuming you are charging what you feel you need to, and others apparently need less, maybe you can think about what you can do to make yourself more "attractive" to a potential client, as well as whether you can become more efficient so that you can maintain your income while lowering your prices to reflect your improved efficiency?
mick... you don't say what kind of work you do..
but here's the basic secret.. you're bidding work..
if you want to make money you don't competitively bid..
you determine your price and sell the job..
most of the time , if you are bidding against unknown competition, you are wasting your time.. someone is going to get it who is either incompetent, inexperienced , or dishonest...
IE: you can't take the job at their price and make money... so don't
your problem is not one of inefficiency..it's a problem of marketing and sellingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
you determine your price and sell the job..
I agree entirely Mike, I suppose that's what I was getting at by suggesting that perhaps Mick can make himself more attractive to his potential clients as someone that they want to do their project as opposed to just someone submitting another bid...
Your right Mike.
One thing you should know...Mick is working a snake pit area. That doesn't mean he can't get the work...it just means that he's going to have to create his demand....they aren't going to beat a path to his door.
At first I thought he was framing..but now I see he's remodeling. Ouch! That market has long been dominated by layed off autoworkers getting 95% of their pay. Now theres a boatload of retired boomers, young enough that they want to "keep busy"!. Remodeling fits their idea of "fun" and they can work for free!
Lordy, lordy...I'd head west if I was remodeling...at least to the NW suburbs!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
For a framer you realy hit the nail on the head this time. and I'd say snake pit is puting it mildly
I would like to target the western sub but how do i get a foot hold?
Mike, of course you are correct, absolutely correct.
But what are the first two or three steps that Mick should take to pull himself up out of the bidding trough he is in, in order to get to the next level?
We've seen and read the threads about qualifying prospects, but share with Mick some of your views to get him beyond that. He is not going to move from blind bidding, to getting $3,200 for a proposal writeup, overnight. There must be a progression.
gene.... it took me about 20 years ..
but i didn't have BT..
talking to other builders / remodelers..
reading..
hints i picked up at seminars..
but , a couple of things ...4 in fact.
a seminar on PROOF... (google on PROOF )
a couple articles about mark-up by Walt Stoeppleworth..
and a book called "Guerilla Marketing"..
the final link was a former physical trainer.. decided to stop being a personal trainer and become a remodeler...
he started eating my lunch big time... i had to adapt or die..
so i went back to the first 3 and revamped my business..
start with marketing.....
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
PROOF ?
couldn't find it.........what is it, anyway ?
i know i need it...
carpenter in transition
tim.... PROOF is an acronym for something... all of my manuals are at the office
i think the guy who started it was named Chastain.. but Munroe Porter is running it now..
they mostly do seminars.
I know that i was recently invited by Certainteed to one of their seminars..
BTW.. do you take advantage of Mfr's programs and your lumber yard's programs ..
they are always sponsoring breakfast meetings with these paid speakers ..
anyways.. PROOF is a system of identifying costs.. and using those costs to do estimates.. it's pretty foolproof...but it takes the same leap of faith that Walt Stoeppleworth asks for..
IE: once you have determined the price you have to sell your jobs for in order to make money... then you have to sell the jobs for that price
here's an address for PROOF:
Proof Management Consultants(804) 267-16882727 Buford RdBon Air, VA 23235see if they are running any seminars in your area.. i spent a day with them back in the late '70's that really opened my eyesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
thanks, I 'll look into it...
carpenter in transition
Mike,
Where can i find these articles ftom Walt S.
I will get a copy of the book in the next few days
thanks, Mick
mick... Walt Stoeppelwerth hangs out at Remodeling Magazine, which you can get free..
he also sells his estimating program... HomeTech... which is pretty good ( but i don't use it )...
http://www.hometechonline.com
you can see Walt giving seminars at a lot of Professional Trade Shows..like JLC-Live
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
blue! stop stealing all the work.
Everyone:
Ins. work is good money, but dont be surprised if the checks dont show up right away, most companies will give a run around, or work on a commercial schedule, you have to be prepared for that. One fire job I did this summer paid before I was finished.
Paul,
I am what you could call a fully legitimit contractor. Let me explain, Incorperated Licensed firm with an accounting and legal firm to asist me, fully Insured, workers comp (@9.3%) Newer vans owned and insured by the busuness. and so on.
I think that talented or not "side jobers" or guys wuth out any of this overhead are what is giving a serouse pain in the backside.
Any idea how to convince a potential client that spending 10%- 20% more for the same job is to there advantage
MICK.
I hear you Mick. Let me give you some quick background. I own a large, high end film lab at present. I took this place from bankruptcy and within a few years it was the dominant player in this part of the state, the subject of magazine stories, and winner of a "Best Of..." contest for 8 years.
This industry has been savaged by discount 1hr labs that hire kids and produce trash, and people doing digital imaging at home and not realizing that their end results are low quality, non archival etc etc. So, I'm intimately familiar with having to justify a higher price for my services. There are tonssss of ways to approach it, and I'll just give you some off the top of my head. Please don't take offense at anything I mention as they are just general musings.
First, do you project a positive, professional image every single time you interact with the public? Not just clients but people that some day may be clients? Are your trucks clean, do all your people wear clean clothes with a company logo or name? Are your business cards, quotes, invoices, etc professionally done? All these things were discussed in a thread some time ago...
OK, let's talk marketing...
The first issue becomes, WHY should someone use you and how do you convey that? You need a "USP"- a unique selling position... If you just say we really do great work, that's not gonna hack it. Most folks would say that. What exactly makes you worth a difference in price? If you can't identify it in one sentance you need to think harder. A famous Broadway producer had a saying ... "If you can't write your idea on the back of your business card, you don't have a clear one"
The average client forms an almost instantaneous decision about you. Does your name convey something about you? For instance..."Joe's Framing" doesn't say much (nor does alphabet soup like "ABC Framing") . You need a name that conveys something about you instantly like "Precision Framing" (just the first thing that came to mind). I chose Atlantic Filmworks, because it sounded big. It was amazing how overnight people began thinking we were some kind of heavy hitter. And a slogan that says very simply what you want people to associate with you, quickly and simply. We used "When you need photos, not excuses" at one time and people loved it... then we used "the photolab other labs come to", also very successful. You have to choose a niche that no one else is exploiting successfully, whether it's the cheapest framer in town, the fastest framer in town or the best framer in town. There's a place in the market for all of those. Once you've chosen one, every single thing you do MUST drive that point home. Once you send mixed messages and confuse your client, you're just another voice hollering for business.
Knocking your competition in any form is very risky, but saying why you are superior in general is great. Show some of your best work, quote raves from customers in your brochures. (You do have a simple, professional brochure right? It's a must). Don't tell them the other guys hire illegals, but make sure they know that all your employees are insured, etc...
Whew, OK I don't want to bore anyone so if you want anymore and this is remotely helpful, just let me know...
Paul
Paul,
Don't stop now, you're on a roll and I'm salivating.
Well, ok, I might be drooling 'cuz of this fine roast leg o'deer in front of me, but, you never know, it just might be those words of wisdom you're speaking.
SamT
Paul,
Your advise is great some of it is allready in play i am working on a better corp. immage I changed the name of my co. from Carey Construction To Bay Building & Development Co. LLC Mostly because I live on Ancor Bay And my cotage is on Little Traverse Bay ( a very high end new construction area, my little place would make someone a nice garage.)
Thank You,
Mike Carey
You know... there's nothing worse than telling a German to keep lecturing (especially after a glass or two of wine)...
Some semi random thoughts along these lines:
Once you have identified your "niche", examine your business in it's entirety and ask yourself whether every single thing is in keeping with that niche. Whether in business or personal relationships, one of the things that turns people on or off the fastest is congruence (or lack thereof)*. Let's say you see an ad for a furniture store that you have an opinion of as a cut rate, lowest price guaranteed place. You walk in and it's a ritzy looking showroom with only mediocre prices? Studies have shown that people's reactions are much more intense when their perception doesn't gibe with reality. If you decide to market yourself as a high end builder, every interaction must be high end. No mispelled words in your letters or brochures, no terse answering machine messages, no xerox'ed brochures...find yourself a reasonably priced printing shop, hire a good designer and photographer. Likewise, if you are "Speedy Framing" and you have a six month lead time, hire more carps, you're in trouble. Everything you do is an investment in the long term success of your market niche.
Now ask yourself what the motivation is for the type of client that occupies the niche you want. If you're going for the high end, and pricing yourself accordingly, what does a high end customer want? If you aren't sure, ask. You may well be surprised that what they feel is valuable isn't what you thought. I've done surveys of our clients a number of times. I'm willing to bet that there are builders trade groups that have surveyed just this question.
Once you have selected a niche, and defined the things that the clients in that niche want ask yourself whether you genuinely offer what those people want. If not, you need to redefine how you do business. Our clientele is "the carriage trade". These folks want what they want, when they want it, the way the want it and if we can't deliver it they'll find someone who can. It's my job to make sure that we never, ever drop the ball. If the phone rings more than three times, I go on The Gong Show. If someone's handwriting is poor, I tell them not to hand write notes to clients. If we everrrrr miss a deadline, even by minutes, the person that is responsible hand delivers the job to the client's home or office. You get the idea ;)
At risk of overstaying my welcome, let me give you my personal experience in contracting, so far. I'm planning to take a whack at it full time, as I've mentioned before when I come around for advice ;). I went through all of the above steps. Had my first meeting with a for real, good sized client. The first thing the wife said to me was "Gee, I like your brochure...nice logo" and asked me about the company name. They had met previously with the best known high end remodeler in the area and they told me that they were disappointed because they had been led to believe that this place was very creative and had a personal touch, but their suggestions seemed boring and not in keeping with what the clients had said they wanted (incongruence, remember?). I listened carefully to what they said they were looking for, made some suggestions that I thought were a little outside the box (they were looking for creative, right?) and showed them a nice professionally prepared porfolio of past projects. Some they liked, some they didn't but the bottom line is, I got the contract. At my price (which was no bargain, I don't think) and they're willing to wait until I finish my other obligations.
Now, I'm the first to admit that one client does not make a business, and I could be passing the hat here in a few months, but I firmly believe your odds are infinitely improved if you employ good, basic marketing.
Whewwww... OK I'm off the soapbox.
Some phenomenal books on all these issues are:
"Positioning-Trout and Ries, "The Marketing Mystique" -McKay, "Ogilvy on Advertising" -Ogilvy, "The Service Edge"- Zemke and Schaaf
* The concept of congruence in interpersonal (and business) relationships is very well established, and a fundamental premise of the work of psychologist Carl Rogers- "On Becoming a Person"
PS, reread this in the morning... my apologies if it's rediculously long winded...
Edited 11/18/2004 8:12 am ET by PaulB
Edited 11/18/2004 8:14 am ET by PaulB
Mick, which suburb are you losing those bids in? Which builders? Which subs? How long have you been in business? Who is wining the bids?
I'm familiar with NE Det.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Have you been in rehab?
<G>
I'm noticing that you've dropped off one of the caution labels.
"I will never surrender or retreat. " Col. Wm. B. Travis, The Alamo, Feb. 1835
Rehab....yes...this site qualifies as rehab!
I dropped off the POL disclaimer because the election is over...and I'm now winding down my last group of insults...oops, I mean discussions regarding politics. I'm actually a non-political kinda guy.
I'm still warning others about my boogerin techniques though because I don't want anyone to get hurt trying to duplicate things I've learned/developed in thirty years on the job. I'm just giving them the option so that when they've had 30, they'll know whats in store for them....unless they decided to stay in the Owl Habitat Destroyer Club.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Check out whether your local BBB can hook ya up with either the SBA, or a satellite program , S.C.O.R.E. ( service corp of retired exeutives)..the SBA is all over ways to help, it's free, and they have helped me enormously in the past.
I once had a product to market, that required some capital investment, they showed me how to do a market study, get a business plan, and proceed with THIER funding. I chose at the time to not persue it, the minimum they'd grant me was 400,000.00 and I woulda had to create a full time position for an employee for every 35K..but this was a manufacturing situ., for your business, they would hook you up with another "retired" remodeler, and he would guide your progress...try it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Any ideas on how to get a good idea of what other remodlers are charging?
easy.
when the customer says No Thanks ...
or forgets to call and say Yes Thanks ...
call them ... and ask.
"I keep a file of all my outgoing bids, I'd like to know how much the winning bidder is charging so I can close your file ..... thank U"
some will tell .. some won't.
depending on the type of work and customers ... a good portion won't even be getting the work done at all.
Jeff
Hay Jeff,
Thanks, I did not think of the file idea thats good. On the bids that i realy want I do ask how far apart my bid was from the winner if it is close i offer to match or slightly beat. but these side job guys are just killing me
I will take your advice and try to get info i can track on all bids win lose or draw
thanks, mick
Make sure all your prospects know about your qualifications.
Maybe at the top of your proposals, you could clearly list your license number. At the bottom, clearly state that all your workers are covered by worker's comp and you have $X Million in liability insurance coverage. Offer references for satisfied customers who you've done similar projects for. Indicate that you always get a building permit and inspection when appropriate.
Give a little detail in your proposals that show you know what you're doing. For example on an ACQ deck, say: "All fasteners will be stainless steel or hot-dipped galvanized."
I know it's tough if you're hungry, but if a customer goes with a low bidder when they know what you're truly offering, you probably didn't want the job anyway.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I have the same problem as you do. I once spent a day and a half pricing out a huge deck job. The home owner gave me a 10 page proposal/ spec sheet. He wanted to put a hot tub on a second story deck. He had some huge gaps in his plans(that no one else pointed out) and when I amended them,(so the tub wouldn't fall) I became the high bidder. It finally ended up that I refused to build the way he wanted unless he could get an engineer to sign off on his design.....he never called back and I dont know if it ever got built.
Hi Mick, I would echo much of what Al Moliter shared. By the way I'm also in southeast Michigan. I'm not in construction (therefore I normally prefer to just "lurk" here) but I have been in sales a # of years and have always had the good fortune to sell for the higher priced companies in my field. My .02 worth would be these two thoughts:
1) Where can you save money? Instead of paying retail for gas can you get a prepaid gas card to save some money? Do you have those cool employee-less gas stations near you that typically save you 10-15% on gas? Have you shopped your W.C. insurance lately? I once worked for a very smart man that said "you can't SAVE your way to big profits, but it sure helps get you to the little profits more quickly".
2) When you bid jobs if you know you're going to be the high price game in town, and you don't want to change your pricing strategy, then you need to tell them that upfront! You either need to convince your prospects that they should use you because of your quality, customer service, years of experience, or whatever...or you need to move a little more upscale in your clientele. I.e. find someone who is willing to pay your price. Either way I highly recommend my sales technique. One of the VERY FIRST things I say to people is "we've been very successful in our field, we command a premium for our product, and yet we're still growing like a weed. I'd be happy to share with you why that is, I truly think you could benefit from our services. But, in order to save your time - and mine - I need to know upfront if you're willing to pay for our premium service if I can prove to you that it's a worthwhile investment. What do you think?". Then be quiet...not a word...not a peep. (You can tweak the wording if it's a bit too "salesy" for you). If they say they ARE willing to pay for such a premium service then you're 80% home, all you need to do is convince them that YOU are the premium man for the job. If they say NO, then leave them for the el cheapo guys and politely tell the prospect that if they're unhappy with the completed work they know where to find you. :-)
- Rob
I keep getting the people who are thinking they want something done. They have no idea of what or when but want an estimate. I give them a fair price. They seem shocked. You can see in there eyes they think its too much. Sometimes they tell you this. Sometimes they insult you.
Then if they are serious. They call Mr Bigtime Contractor who is more than happy to give them a big time price. At this point they know they insulted me. So they are not going to call me back. So they either hire Mr Big time Contractor or forget the project.
I did once however have someone call me and tell me that they had there hired man do the job (He works for $5.00 an hour). And then ask me to come and inspect the work LOL.
Kip
Rob....I like your style!
I hope you chirp in a little more with your sales experiences.
Where and what are you selling/repping in SE Mich?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Hi Blue, thanks. I'm in the Ann Arbor area and actually sell franchises for a living. (Although I used to sell commodity packaging materials - so I know what it's like to butt heads with the cheap guys) I love it. Getting people to give up $100,000 of their hard earned money is not easy but it's very rewarding. We take good care of our franchisees so it's fun to see them learn, grow and achieve their dreams.
The other thought I had, from a purely customer driven perspective, is it would be cool to see a well done brochure that showed pictures of "quality" work right next to pictures of "sub-quality" work. For instance show me a picture of a tightly mitered trim next to a picture of trim that was NOT tightly mitered. Show me your drywall corners after a year vs. the other guy's drywall corners (hopefully cracked, etc.). Even though you're not directly SAYING all the other bidders will provide that kind of quality, that's the implication. OBVIOUSLY only put in pictures and words what you can back up. So if you can't guarantee perfect corners in a year then don't put those pics in the brochure, but you know what I mean.
Any college student in a graphics class can put something like this together for you.
- Rob
Actually Stroke I'm not the one needing the brochures. I just direct the clients to do a walkthroug on any of our projects. Seeing is believing!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
True, although you've got to entice them to do the walkthrough. You've got to think of getting a "suspect" to a "prospect" to a "customer" to a "referral source"! People don't go from cold to hot, just like they won't go from meeting you the first time and writing a remodeling job check for $50k 10 minutes after meeting you. If you can get people to do a walkthrough early in the process, more power to you. However I think the brochure might be a good intermediate step.
My feeling, again from a pure customer standpoint, is that people are very busy these days. That's why so many people hire maid services, lawn care services, oil changes are done in 10 minutes, etc. Maybe getting people to spend 60 minutes looking at other homes is too much work? The brochure might do the trick, who knows.
The other thing that I think would be kind of funny, yet effective, would be a semi-humorous video put together by an amateur remodeler. Don't ask me how it would work but, given the sense of humor most of the BT guys seem to have around here, I think someone could really make it a riot - yet also get the point across that you do quality work and you take care of the customer after the sale as well.
My random thoughts... - Rob
be careful what you wish for , rob...
on the BT video , i meanMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Great advice Rob.
Occasionally I'm out there selling my services (new work rough framing) bit the buyers are usually interested in one thing....price. Then, there are other buyers that are interested in two things...quality...then meet the same lowered price as all the rest of the unlicensed, unskilled, cook-the-books contractors!
It's just a hell hole rat race!
I'm more interested in how you go about selling 100k franchises..that sounds infinitly more interesting. What type are they..food? Subways?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue, so are you selling to GC's or homeowners? If you're selling rough framing services I would assume you're selling to GC's. If so I'd have to pull out some of my old commodity distribution strategies, which rely heavily on building relationships. But ever since I started selling franchises to "retail consumers" I've found it ifinitely easier to beat the "low price" bug that affects many other industries.
- Rob
I "sell" to GC's so I'd appreciate any and all hints/tips.
I'm interested in you because you sell full time as compared to all of us who are partimers at selling. I'm not sure any of us could sell ice water in hell.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue... If you're interested in a quick read that is IMHO the best book on marketing I've ever read (and I have read and done plenty of it), get "Positioning" by Trout and Ries. It's (I think) out of print now but it's a fast read and will tell you more in a couple evenings about how people perceive businesses than you can get in a years worth of MBA classes.
Thanks Paul...its still available at Amazon...I'll get it locally at a borders or something. I've already put a note in front of my credit card...I won't be able to buy anything without thinking about it.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue...
I loan out books even more reluctantly than tools, or womenfolk, but if you'd like (and you swear the sacred gadget lover's oath), I'll send you my copy to read before dropping the money on it. Drop me a PM with your mailing address if you want to borrow it...
Paul "Gadget" B
Thanks for the offer Paul...but no thanks. I like to read them, then re-read the chapters that I need to over...and over....and over.....
I'll just put out the pennies to make the dollars and add to my small but growing library.
I am interested in any more book recomendations...specifically business and sales related. Also..any thing involving real estate...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Ahhhh, you sell to GC's. Then forget much of what I said before. :-) Although a brochure still wouldn't be a bad thing to have. However you're selling to a well educated audience. I too have sold to "middlemen" before. I would consider the GC a middleman given that he's not the end user of the finished product. He'll be the "user" of your product but he's bundling it w/other stuff to sell to a homeowner.
Take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm used to selling two products through middlemen: 1) carton sealing tape and 2) franchises. I sold tape (yes, boring stuff but you'd be shocked how much of it is used out there) to distributors that would bundle it with shrink film, stretch film, bags, etc. and then sell it to companies that needed it to package their products. Although I now sell franchises directly to people I also get leads via franchise "brokers" that supply me with well qualified people ready to buy a franchise (just not necessarily MY franchise).
There are a number of books I could recommend to you but it's best to start with the basics. The basics - as I see them - are these three things:
1) Service! Answer your phone on the first ring. Answer your phone in the evenings, on weekends, etc. If you can't answer your phone forward it to an answering service. That's right, PAY SOMEONE to answer the phone for you. Do not, I repeat do NOT let it go into voice mail. I don't care if a person is calling around for a $10 haircut or a $30,000 framing job, if they can't get a live voice they'll hang up and call the next guy. Don't let that happen to you. Also be the FIRST person to respond to voice mail or messages. If you get 10 voice mails (if you must) and two are from your kids, three are from your wife, four are from your bookie (yikes!) and one is from a customer (or potential customer) then call the customer back first. It sounds obvious but very few people follow this rule.
2) Consistentcy! Yes in quality, obviously. But more importantly in your service levels. The hardest part about #1 above is that once you start it you have to continue it, you can't ever be the SECOND person to call them back or they'll know you're slacking.
3) Top-of-mind Awareness! If you know Joe does 10 homes/year and he's only giving you two of them, who's getting the other eight? And why isn't it you? You could write a book on this topic, such as how to do market research, exploit your competitor's weaknesses, etc. And yes these are all things you should be doing to some degree. But if you want to run a business and still have a life there's something much more simple you can do: call Joe frequently. E-mail him frequently. Mail him something frequently. Have a referral call him. Etc. When Joe is leaving the house in the morning thinking about calling ABC Company to frame his next house you want him to hop in his truck and - voila! - guess who left him a message on his voice mail? You! What do you say to him every two weeks? WHATEVER!!! Something semi-meaty of course but you don't have to explain the theory of relativity to him. Tell him that you just finished Tom's home on Smith street and it turned out great - maybe Joe could take a ride by it over the weekend and check it out? Is Joe really going to do that? Unlikely. But who cares? He heard your name, he remembers what you do, he knows you're working hard and you've offered to let him see your work - which means YOU trust your work so HE should too! Or just call him up and tell him "thanks" again for the job last month, your guys really enjoyed how well the plans were laid out for them. Ask him if he has anything coming up that you can work on. Whatever you think will trip his trigger. The point is you stay on top of his mind.
Again, there are many things you can do to enhance your business. But I guarantee you if you can do those three things (obviously assuming your quality is decent, etc.) then you'll be in the top 20% of folks in your industry.
As Woody Allen once said "80% of success is just showing up". He wasn't far off the mark.
- Rob
rob.. good points... your #3 is the olde "7 blips on a customer's radar screen before they notice you.. once they do notice you , they convince themselves that thye always knew you..
interesting thing about this point.. they will often end up referring you.. just to demonstrate that they have valuable knowledge..
example..
at a cocktail party... the conversation will come around to remodelers.. if you've registered on Joe's radar screen.. he may say something like.. oh , yes.. i see his jobs going on all over town....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thats an interesting point of view Mike...one that I've never heard nor thought of.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Rob,
What type of franchises are you selling?
Is it ok to advertise here? :-) Ever hear of Molly Maid, the residential cleaning company? That's what I sell. Fortunately I don't have to wear a dress to work!
- Rob
Rob,
I have started this step by placing an ad at The Center for Creative Studies.
I was looking for a Shock & aw full package so i can make the jump from the masses to the preamium customers
thaks for the wisdom,
Mick
Short of hiring illegals, paying your help in crack or taking them out back and shooting them instead of paying them your unlikely to be able to compete on a toe-to-toe, straight comparison of the bottom line, basis.
What you can often compete on is the intangibles:
- Communication with and understanding of customers.
- Care for and accommodation of the customers during the remodel.
- High standards of cleanliness and worker behavior.
- Careful and intelligent design of the finish product that incorporates the home owners ideas, preferences and habits into the finish product.
- Attention to details.
- Intelligent use of materials emphasizing beauty, functionality and durability but with an eye for economy where practical.
- Strong and timely warranty work.
- Reassurance and hand holding.
Historically cut-throat contractors are poor performers in these areas. They can talk a good story sometimes but in the end the dichotomy between higher profits and the time it takes to do customer service will tell. Their greed and desire for the quick score takes a toll on their patience. Patience they need to perform effective customer service.
Once they stumble jobs can turn into cold wars. Profits disappearing into the pockets of lawyers when they heat up or the project abandoned half done. It only takes once or twice for word to get out about the 'quick and dirty' contractor. Once word gets out large areas are closed to him.
Quality work, sensitivity to the customers and their needs works in the opposite manner. Each job spreads the word that your not cheap but you are worth every penny. A lot of people are willing to pay extra for this.
Frequently those unwilling to pay for this service are too tight to deal with. These are the folks who will second guess your every move. Customers more likely to cause friction no matter how understanding and careful you are. Customers who deserve the lowest bidder contractors and the shoddy and ill considered work they do.
when you pay in Crack? how do you do the withholdings?
just for the record...
the guy do'n work the cheapest is always busy
the most expensive guy is always busy
the guys in the middle are sometimes busy
you can make a good honest living have'n & work'n a coal mine or in the same hours of the day... you can have & work a gold mine... pretty much up to you
pony
11/14/04 I live in the country between Baltimore MD and Washington DC; and I like working around this rural area. I have swore off working in the suburbs of WDC such as Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and Potomac because its not worth losing three hours of each day sitting in traffic going to and from the project. But to give you an idea what other contractors are getting for remodeling... about $210./sf !!! I know of roofing companies sending out their flunky (and probably illegal) workers to patch a roof for $200. for the first hour, then $100.@ hour thereafter x each man!!! I've had my own business here for 20 years and live comfortably, but the gaul of some people calling themselves professionals gives me a good laugh at least once a week. All the advice the other guys gave you to look at your own business, you should be doing periodically anyway. And just recognize those jerk homeowners asap and make the next sale. "Life is hard - Get a helmet"
Mick,
Go back to some of your past customers who were really satisfied with your work. See if the have any friends or neighbors looking for a contractor. Referrals are key to any business. Most business that are successful spend about 80% of their marketing budget on previous customers (thats what my SCORE advisor told me).
Try to focus your business on the section of the market that is not being well served. Those people who choose the lowest bid are really not your customers.
Try to get some marketing data on your service area, like meidian household income, # of years people spend in each house before moving, etc... This may help generate areas of interest for your service and then you can come up with a marketing plan for these specific clients.
I would first look to previous customers for referrals or recommendations. Secondly get some advice from SCORE. It's free and the more you know the better off you will be. Good Luck
J.P.
Hi Mick:
As a painting contractor I'm working in a very competitive market in Colorado where students and spanish speaking workers offer labor for next to nothing. Most of my jobs are referrals and I work on this marketing approach (I guess that's what its called) by staying in contact with my customers. I expanded my services by offering small repairs on siding, drywall and wood in general; even small concrete and stucco jobs were done. At times I cooperated with fellow tradesmen like builders, roofers and plumbers because I know my limits and don't pretend to be more than a painter. Knowing and referring other tradesmen brought more work and more good business connections. My target group are the owner of log homes and older homes (my bred and butter) and private and commercial buildings within the historic district areas (my exciting challenges). My pricing is considered fair to expensive but I stand behind my estimates and don't have to justify. But you are right, at times I loose bids too and that is just part of the game. It could mean I have to force myself and write more bids and call up more people....(my biggest challenges).
I hope I could help and good luck!
Mick,
I would urge you to pay special attention to what Mike Smith tells you---I couldn't agree more
In addition i would urge you to at least consider the following
One potentiall problem you are having is that you are trying to earn a living from something that you enjoy----and that many of your competitors enjoy as well. That's great if you can make a go of it---but if you can't ?????
consider the potentiall of specializing in something nobody really wants to do. This summer i stumbled into something that I am now moving agressively into as a side line, plaster and drywall repair----it fits well with my existing business9roofing)
plaster and drywall repair is dirty,messy,inconvenient and NOBODY wants to take on small jobs with it. Somehow a local insurance agency has started referring me to people who need ceilings patched. the 2 most recent jobs I did for this insurance company were
1)$445 to replace a piece of drywall ceiling 16 inches by 24 inches and blend the texture back in.
2)$1785 for a 12 foot by 16foot ceiling.
the beauty of this is that the work is not terribly difficult---it is a bit messy. NO ONE wants to do it. You will often be the only contractor who shows up to give a price---so set your prices accordingly.
I have been so impressed with the potential for this that I am setting up a program to direct mail market to local insurance agencies offering to provide this service. I will be solving a problem that no one else wants to handle.
And----it fits in quite nicely with my existing roofing business----after all most of my prospective roofing customers realized they needed my roofing services via a water damaged ceiling.
And----as a contractor you can easily handle several of these jobs at once in between various coats of mud.
think about it.
and if you don't want to mess with plaster----how about a 24hour a day water heater replacement service?---people want hot water when they want hot water!---they don't wanna wait
I called a service like this years ago---3 hours later I had hot water.
good luck, Stephen
Excellent advice Stephen!
I've often wondered why roofing contractors didn't jump all over those simple drywall repair jobs. The smaller the job..the harder it is to get high quality people to do them...they are ripe for a very high profit center. The biggest reason that they are a high profit center is becasue in most instances, the client is not taking money out of his pocket to pay you and he can finally make a decision based on quality...not price...without hurting the family budget.
I recently posted a coupla stories about insurance repairs...they are very easy to market. In fact..I forgot to mention on the double repair story that I recently told....the insurance agent was flabbergsted that our price was so much higher than his "normal" repairs, but I stuck to my guns and explained our services and preached quality. In the end, we got plenty more than we needed....AND..... the insurance agent started REFERRING US FOR OTHER REPAIRS because he knew we would deliver the goods without causing problems for him!
Actually Stephen, at one point, I considered marketing to ROOFERS seeking these small repair jobs...because they are so profitable. In fact, now that I'm re-thinking it...I might put out some feelers for a handyman and start contracting those small repairs as a sideline!
I'm writing the note and talking to Frank about it tomorrow!
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I have thought of the insurance repairs business... A few years ago my best friends brother-in-law had part of the same tree land on his house twice in 6 months. both times I had the contract to repair the home. it was a very fat job both times. I have since wondered how to land more of these Dirty, rush( 24 hour all weather) jobs.
I guess this is the work smarter rather that harder rule.
HOW DO YOU GET THE INSURANCE PAYED JOBS. dose the ins co. call you or do the clients callyou. who sets the price? who pay's, who? who?.......
Mick, you just asked the most important question....
I've made some really, REALLY profitable insurance sale jobs.
The key is to make the homeowner understand that once the loss is incurred, the only job the insurance company has is to write the check. They don't have any control over how the homeowner spends the money.
So, I sell on quality, not price...and I put a price on EVERYTHING! A simple drywall patch can easily add up to $1000 when you itemize every last detail including tarping everything off, sealing the house, vacuming, etc for four or five days in a row.
After you get the top dollar contract, don't be afraid to do a spectacular job. If Haz is giving it 110%, you can give it 120%.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
remind me again why insurance is so expensive
"I was glad that when everything finally hit the fan I was holed up in a little beer joint in Robstown, Texas called the El Gato Negro."
remind me again why insurance is so expensive
thats funny intrepid. Finally, a carpenter is able to actually make a little money and oh my....he's contributing to the rise in insurance costs!
Hilarious.
If you truly analyzed our trades, we all should be charging at least 100%, maybe 200% more than what we get every day. On insurance work, we can finally get true value and suddenly we're vultures? Why, because maybe we want a real vacation, or perhaps a retirement?
Our entire industry is #### up and 99% of us certainly do our share of keeping the insurance repair bills down.
If only we could get the same co-operation from the doctors, bumpshops, etc....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
yeah....finally get a chance to make it up and somebody blames you for all the problems of the world...............
<G>
but I just had to do it...........
"I was glad that when everything finally hit the fan I was holed up in a little beer joint in Robstown, Texas called the El Gato Negro."
since you brought it up...........
friend of mine doing a lot of bodywork always said "when doing insurance work, 'don't argue over the small stuff...it all comes out in the wash'."
"I was glad that when everything finally hit the fan I was holed up in a little beer joint in Robstown, Texas called the El Gato Negro."
friend of mine doing a lot of bodywork always said "when doing insurance work, 'don't argue over the small stuff...it all comes out in the wash'."
IC, I agree and that's why I told him to give 120%. IF your getting a fair price, maybe a little more than you normally do, it's a lot easier to go the extra mile. For instance, on one insurance job that I did for a friend, the top border work of some paper was damaged and it was going to be impossible to find a suitable match. I asked him.."maybe your wife might like us to just paper the entire wall with a new pattern?"
Of course he loved that suggestion and that's what we did at no extra charge. Now, were the heros. IF we had to nickel dime and fight for every "extra", the whole thing turns into a big mess...a battle of nickels and dimes.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Mick -- Please take this note as I intend it: constructive advice, not a personal criticism. As a consumer, if I received a brochure or bid or whatever from you which looked as bad as some of your posts I'd toss it in the garbage. You really need to clean up your spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization to present the most professional image possible. A lot of prospects will say "if he can't do a superior job on the bid what makes me think he'll do any better on the construction?"
You really need to clean up your spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization
Thats hilarious!! I almost fell off my chair laughing!
can something like that be done????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Calm down Mick,
Take a deep breath
approach this slowly-------------------------
I am not an expert in this---so all I can do is tell you what I do.
Remember----you are working for the customer---NOT THE INSURANCE CO. You will have to get along with the insurance folks----but they do not determine YOUR price or HOW you will do things.
Once you begin keeping THAT in mind , the insurance jobs are not terribly different then ANY OTHER job.
How I got started is------------
I keep track of where all my jobs come from----that is what advertising medium, who referred whom, etc. There is an insurance agency who I noticed has been referring me with increasing frequency ( Actually 2 agencies but that's a different story)
In truth I don't know EXACTLY how I came to these agencies notice because the initial contact came BEFORE I was tracking things in such detail----maybe 7-8 years ago. In general I probably did some work for a customer who happened to work for the agency, or more likely owned the agency. The work was probably on their personal residence and they probably got the initial referall from a friend or a neighbor that I had previously worked for.
The agency will be your initial contact point----not the insurance company---the individual agency. The agency is who customers call when trees land on their roof. etc.----THAT is who you want handing out your referalls.
When the agency referrs you to a potential customer----go out and meet them like any other customer----and SELL THEM like any other customer. I simply explain what the problem is, what the damage is, how I PERSONALLY would solve the problem, what high quality materials I would use, and in general demonstrate how I am gonna solve their problems. It doesn't matter in the slightest to me what the insurance company will or will not pay for. I have ZERO interest in the insurance companies problems and neither should you.
Remember---you are to work for the customer---not the insurance company. Your contract will be with the customer---not the insurance company. The customer will pay you, NOT the insurance company. However much money the customer recovers from the insurance company is NOT your problem.
The smaller the project the easier the sale will be because you will have few if any competitors. I have gotten well over $400 for a small ceiling repair totalling approx. 2 foot by 2 foot. The larger the project---the more scrutiny the insurance company will have RE your price. TOO BAD----your price is your price----pay no attention to the insurance company if they tell you " we will only pay for such and such at a rate of XYZ"--------when that conversation comes up simply say " I understand that----however IF I am going to handle this project this is the way I am going to do it, these are the materials I am going to use, this is what it IS going to cost."
In my case it helps if I can cite building codes----for instance -------
" I understand the roof as it currently exists doesn't include icegaurd and so your company doesn't feel obligated to PAY for ice gaurd----however the customers house is located in the city of Cuyahoga Falls and the building code---not to mention standard roofing practices ,REQUIRE me to use icegaurd. The cost of labor and materials for that are not coming out of my pocket------and so THAT is a matter between the customer and the insurance agent. When I do the project we WILL be using that material and this IS the price."
Just be friendly and polite-----SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS-----PROMPTLY. Just don't subsidize their project with YOUR money.
Remember that the " insurance claim" is a problem for the customer AND the AGENT. Make the problem disappear with as little fuss as possible---at YOUR price, not the insurance companies.
Now,
How do you get all this started??????
I wrote up a standard letter talking about my company, how long we have been in business, what types of work we are interested in, our workers comp, liability insurance ,BBB references ,blah, blah ,blah......
On monday 1-3-05 I mailed out 50 of those letters to local insurance agencies. On Thursday 1-6-05 I recieved my first call from a prospective customer generated by those letters. A referall from an agency I know nothing about and have never dealt with.
Customer had a tree fall on their roof. I am currently working this sale with the customer and the agent. Customer LOVES me-----agent doesn't want to pay my full price. I am being nice to everyone----but remember their problems are not my problems. I will only solve THEIR problems for MY price. This project---when the sale goes through will be 1/12th to 1/15 of my usual yearly sales volume.
February 1-----another 50 letters will go out to the same agencies----and again on march 1 etc.
In addition there are 50 letters adressed and stamped on my desk ready to go out at all times as soon as any ice or wind storm hits.
Remember you ARE going to solve their problems----but only in exchange for money----you aren't inthis to be a nice guy----but being a nice guy will help things along.
Best wishes ,Stephen
Edited 1/18/2005 10:50 am ET by Stephen_Haz
" I understand the roof as it currently exists doesn't include icegaurd and so your company doesn't feel obligated to PAY for ice gaurd----however the customers house is located in the city of Cuyahoga Falls and the building code---not to mention standard roofing practices ,REQUIRE me to use icegaurd. The cost of labor and materials for that are not coming out of my pocket------and so THAT is a matter between the customer and the insurance agent. When I do the project we WILL be using that material and this IS the price."BTW, some insurance polices will cover it. You might want to mention to the client to verify the details of their coverage. I think that the clause is called code compliance or the like.Typically the 3 levels of coverage are.1. Pay depreciated value - Ie 2/3 the cost of a replacement roof if the old roof is 10 years old and a 30 year roof.2. Replacement cost - pay to replace with new material and technique of similar quality as the existing.3. Replaement cost with code compliance - As in 2, but pay an extra needed to comply to with changes in the code.
Thanks for the tip Bill,
I will try to keep that in mind.
Ideally however I will just suggest the homeowner verify the details of their own policy.
I don't want to be in a situation where I am trying to explain to the homeowner his own policy.
In General I am there for a specific reason and I don't want to develope an adversarial relationship with either the homeowner OR the insurance agency. After all---I want BOTH of them to refer me to new customers in the future.
( However , if the Homeowner and the insurance company are gonna argue---that's between THEM.)
Stephen
Wow! Stephen, that was Very Well Put :-)
Should anyone be interested, here's a link to a page of Back-to-Basics Marketing/Advertising that should help most anyone get where he/she wants to get with a minimum of fuss and muss.
-- Steve
Enjoy life & do well by it;
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
1) (I left out "help". goof gried :-( )2) disclaimer: I used to be in the mktg/consulting biz -- this page is a "courtesy".
Edited 1/18/2005 7:09 pm ET by Putzger
Edited 1/18/2005 7:11 pm ET by Putzger
Stephen,
Thank you for your response it made me think of the transaction in a clear light.
You said that you send the letters to the Insurance Agent & not the Adjuster.
I thought that all work came from the adjusters. Should I Forget about the adjusters?
Mr Kovacs very impressive beautiful machine
imagine it has radiant heated seats but will it have a mud bed?
Mr Kovacs? You've got me turning around to look for my Dad, John....lol.
Yes, it does have the heated seats, which personally I don't care for. My wife lovesthem, but I don't like the way they feel on my backside. One fun part of having them though- in the middle of the summer, you can turn on the passenger seat and in a few minutes your passenger will begin sweating and feeling a bit uncomfortable, without knowing why. You then shut the seatwarmer off, let them cool down, then turn it back up again a while later. Do that a couple times, and they'll think they've gone nuts.....lol.
Bob
boy, the things we do to amuse ourselves....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
gotta pass the time on those long roadtrips somehow, Mike...lol
Bob
Mick,
remeber---I am not an expert at this----I am just sharing what I have done and commenting on my limmited experiences.
I wouldn't forget about the insurance adjusters---but I wouldn't expend any significant effort in contacting them------ here is why
I picked 50 agencies, primarily independent insurance agents out of the Phone book----I wanted indepent agencies that represented several insurance companies ------not captive agencies that only sold--say Mutual of Omaha policies.
I sent my letters DIRECTLY to those agencies because---when a tree falls on your roof most people call their agent first. An independent agency often acts as something of a consultant recommending which company has the best policy for a particular customer----not just shilling one product line. Folks in that type of agency, I feel, are more likely to offer better customer service----and that might include making contractor recommendations.
When a tree lands on a persons roof they call their insurance agent. The agency understands the urgency of the situation and recommends a contractor. The contractor can arrive on the scene and sell the homeowner a new roof---which the customer obviously needs-----DAYS before an adjuster ever sees the property.
Now---as a customer---who do you want to deal with? The guy who came right out to your house, soothed your nerves, tarped your damaged roof , re-assured you that everything will be ok, and gave you a prompt, businesslike estimate with out any BS
Or---do you want the cheaper contractor the nickel and diming claims adjuster sends out 5 or 6 days later???????
Yesterday I finalized the deal on a roof project resulting from an ice storm and falling tree in the first week of January. I have made 2 trips to the house and spent a modest amount of time on the phone with the homeowner and his claims adjuster------time expended totals less than 5 hours. Not only is the deal finalized---but the homeowner is delighted to wait untill late March/early April when it will be convenient for me to replace his roof---and will wait untill then with a tarp over part of his roof. In fact it will be 3-4 weks untill the rest of the tree is cut down---he didn't want the new roof untill then anyhow.
Essentially I had this homeowner sold LONG before the adjuster ever showed up.
BTW----the insurance agent isn't particularly important either. The IMPORTANT person is the clerk who answers the phone at the insurance agency. It will probably be a woman----learn HER name---talk to her friendly,politely,professionally----and send her a VERY short ( 2-3 sentences tops) hand written thank you note. Send the same type of thing to the homeowner after the job is done and paid for. Almost no one else will bother to do this----it only takes a moment or two---so take the time to do the things no one else bothers to do.
Very best wishes,
Stephen
Stephen,
Your advice has me siting on the edge of my seat. But I am still riddled with Questions. If you send a letter to the Tom, Dick & Harry Agency to whom do you address it, to ensure that it wont end up in the trash bin. I receive 10 - 20 unwanted letters a week. I open maybe 5, of that I spend maybe 10 - 30 seconds before it hits the trash.
How do you ensure that your information is seen by the decision maker. Do you include a stack of business cards? A picture that grabs the reader? Cash? ????
Can you Please send me a copy of the letter that works. [email protected]
thanks so much for your help
Mick
Mick,
the chances of me being able to cut/paste/email you that letter are virtually zero
however
if you have a fax machine I would be happy to fax you a copy------or email me an actual mailing address and I will mail you a copy.
Also
Most of your letters ARE going to be thrown in the trash. Accept that.
I sent out 50 in january---I will send out the same 50 in feb., again in march and so on. The VERY last thing I want is 50 responses---the LAST thing believe me.
You are only going to get a 1%-2% response rate----and you STILL have to sell once you get the response. Personally---I couldn't make a remotely professional sales effort on a 100% response rate---in addition to the calls I get from other sources. Once I make the sale---I still have to get the work done you know!
It took me about 3 hours to concoct my mailing list, about an hour to compose the letter, my wife figured out how to get my printer to print out the envelopes. It costs me about 70 cents for each letter that goes out counting, postage, printing the letter and printing the envelopes----plus about 1/2 hour to stuff and stamp the envelopes while I am watching TV. The whole "system" is set up, the hard work has already been done----it will now take me 1/2 hour a month to continue with the "system"
Again---I know full well most of these will be tossed---but I don't know which ones. I will send them out once a month---plus after every big storm------I might even bump it up to twice a month. It is a very small investment of time and money-----and if I didn't get another single sale from this all year it will STILL have been a financial success.
BTW-----I wasn't even primarily interested in attracting more roofing work with these letters. What I was really fishing for was more small plaster and drywall repair jobs referred by insurance companies. Selling a large, entire roof project has just been a bonus.
Stephen
Steven
I would like to see the letter, my fax is 586-598-1945.
thanks much
mick
Mick,
I will send it to you today.
good luck,
Stephen
Mick, I sent it off to ya this morning.
Hope you got it 'cause I think somebody answered your phone while it was going through.
If you didn't get it let me know and I will try to send it tommorrow morning at 11:00 am.
Stephen
Thanks, the fax came through.
Mick, the other thing you might want to consider is paying someone to write the note for you. For instance you can pay a stay-at-home Mom (someone from your church, friend, neighbor, whomever) to write the note and HAND ADDRESS it. If you put a hand address on anything it WILL get opened. People are always very curious. When you have someone else writing these out you really save some time and the expense is well worth it.
If you really want to get creative you can pay them a referral fee once the job is done. Imagine an insurance agency receptionist (you might have to pay the agent too) who's making $10/hour receiving a 5% referral fee. On a $5000 roofing job that's $250! Think you'd get a few phone calls by doing that?
Want to get even more creative? You can now get a "MICK'S REMODELING" credit card to give to this receptionist. You can put the $250 right on the card. Now, when you send the note, you tell her that $250 has been credited to her account.
Good luck,
Rob
Edited 2/19/2005 12:09 am ET by strokeoluck
Edited 2/19/2005 12:10 am ET by strokeoluck
Mick,
you aren't selling the yourself. The reason salsmen make a good living is it's a tough job and less than 1% of those who try make a living doing it..
You make the mistake that so many contractors do.. They think the steak will sell itself.. Not true! the sizzle sells the steak not the other way around..
Drive down the next street, how many of the people in those houses own practicle cars? How many have big SUV's or pickups that will guzzle gas and leave them broke?
Somebody convinced them that they needed 350 horsepower. evan though it takes less than 20 to go the speedlimit.. the guy who did that was a salesman.... sure they may have dealt with an order taker at the dealership but a salesman sold the idea!
good ideas ...
bad analogy.
salesman don't sell horsepower ...
horsepower sells itself.
no one is "talked into" a Hemi ...
people walk in "needing" a Hemi.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff,
Little Honda's have a Hemi... all a hemi is is a hemspherical combustion chamber and in today's world it's kind of out of date..
Hemi means what it means because for decades Chrysler spent money racing hemi powered engines in top fuel dragsters.. want to go from a dead stop to 300 mph? Ya needs a HEMI .. It's called marketing.. they need a Hemi because somebody, be it Don Garlits or Shirley Muldowny or Richard Petty . told them their Hemi helped them win the race..
Winner have hemi's, they want to be a winner, they want a Hemi! Sales! plain and simple!
Actually, a HEMI is just 2/3s of the way there.
My 1956 DeSoto Firedome had a HEMI! Scheesh... the HEMI is SO OUTDATED, that BMW came up with the DREIKUGELWIRBELBRAUNWEBELRAUM and stuffed that itty-bitty four-banger in the BMW 2002 that became the Bay Area Yuppie's excuse for a climax way back in the early 1970s.
Gosh, if Hemi-spherical is good, isn't a TRI-spherical swirl induction down-draft burning room all that much gooder :-)
Ya Gotta Luv Us Krauts!-- Steve
Enjoy life & do well by it;
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
"all a hemi is is a hemspherical combustion chamber, blah blah blah ...."
No sh!t?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
with a wedge and piston to match..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Winner have hemi's, they want to be a winner, they want a Hemi!
Well, I guess I must be a winner then. That's good to hear.....cuz I bought mine just for the azz-kickin acceleration and power of 340 HP......lol
Bob
Thanks for the warning Putzger.
I'm not going west to chase a carpenter's job. That doesn't appear to be in my plans.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!