We are looking to hire a few more carps. It’s always a
shoot. There’s sometimes a gap between what people say they can do and what they can actually do. Yet during the selection process, you just can’t tell.
In the past, I’ve tried to ask a few specific questions, like “how do you tile a floor” or “how do you install a window?” thinking that if a guy really knows his stuff, I’ll be able to tell.
So can you guys think of any more examples of some good questions? How do you weed out the Bull****?
Replies
count his fingers
i find in rentals just keep them talking,the b s comes through before long.they more they brag the worse they 'll be.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
"i find in rentals just keep them talking,the b s comes through before long.they more they brag the worse they 'll be."
That's true. There's the saying "No one ever listened their way out of a job".
Runnerguy
I have no idea what in a carp you are looking for.
I would suggest to them that they show up in their truck dressed for work.............maybe suggest that you want to take them for a spin.
You can judge a lot from what the inside of a guys truck looks like as well as their general appearance.
Throw some math at them or some simple estimating as though they needed to call in materials to the office or supplier.
Ask them to write something about their reasons for choosing carpentry as a career.
That you are hiring.....wow! One job I applied for I was one of over 250 applicants.
God luck!
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Ask "How do you hang a door?"
If the first thing they say isn't "What kind?", as in pre hung, split jamb, or blank slab and 1x stock, that's one indication of their experience and skill.
Another that might give some insight is ask"What aspect do you enjoy the most during a job?" Then gauge their reply.
buic
I snagged a one page questionaire from someone here years ago. I will send you a copy when I go back to the shop. I basically asks someone to describe their level of expertise on whatever the line item is such as
Framing - Joist and subfloors
Framing-Walls and layout
Framing Roof Layout
Siding-Fiber Cement
Siding-Wood Shingle
etc.
I then ask questions that I feel represent various levels of expertise
Such as what is the rough opening of a 3-0/6-8 interior door?
Bruce
Do you have a drivers license? This question usually weeds out 90 percent of them. One of the best employees I had, really wasn't that great of a carpenter. He never did anything above or beyond what he was told. Nothing more, nothing less. However, he showed up every day, and sober at that. And I could leave him the keys to my house, without worries. I would take him any day over a crack-head, thief that knows what he is doing.
I should have said in my first post that we are doing acquisition rehabs of foreclosed houses. We do most everything in house except plumbing/electric/HVAC and carpet.
A recent guy who sounded very good in the interview didn't work out. He was in charge of some framing in a gutted house--when I went to check the next day, the new stub wall next to the fridge was 3/4" out of plumb, the nook for the 5' tub shower unit was 4'-11 1/2" etc. This was a guy we picked out of about 30 applicants! I don't think of myself as that much of a sucker!
Valid driver license w/ acceptable driving record and ability to pass pre-employment drug screen will weed out a majority.
A few phone calls to previous employers can be very revealing. During the phone call, you need to ask the questions though. "What type of work did the person do?" "Did he meet your quality standards?" "Did he have many call-backs?" "Was he a person you could leave alone and trust to get the job done?" "How did he get along with co-workers, supervisors, customers?" "Would you hire him back again?"
Using questions like these as ice breakers, I have found former employers very informative as to the abilities and character of prospective employees. Explain your business, the type of work you do and what you would like the future employee to do and ask for input and ideas on how best to manange the person if you hire him.
So, ask whatever legal question you want during the interview, but try to verify whatever is said. If a person is unable to give work references, you probably don't want him.
I think in construction in particular you've got to wait and see - give 'em a month and evaluate. Your question will weed out some of the obvious godermites but our trade is so dependent on qualities that aren't easy to see in an interview situation that I would not depend solely on the interview.
we are doing acquisition rehabs of foreclosed houses
Could you briefly describe what you are doing for whom? I don't mean to hijack your thread..........
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Most of our company's work is through a local land trust whose mission is to provide affordable housing to low and moderate income people. Basically, the landtrust buys a house, then retains the land and sells the house. The homeowner then owns the house and leases the land. The buyers do have to get real mortgages, though there is some government funds involved to finance the rehabilitation. The house stays in the land trust forever, so we try to build durable houses.Mostly we get foreclosed houses (my company doesn't buy the house, we contract the rehab work). Many are condemned. Some are meth houses. These aren't McMansions! Typically they are 100+ years old and in bad neighborhoods (if there is such a thing in Duluth). Scope of work ranges from full on guts to "lipstick on a pig". Right now we have about 12 houses going at once in various stages. Our houses are selling like hotcakes, though the market here hasn't yet gotten that bad here (and we never flew real high during the boom either!). Knock on wood.
The thing I hated most about having to be "hired" by a company or boss is that often times I knew more than they did when it came to building and my shortcoming was my business acumen. That is, I'd be the contractor but I'd go broke before the job started :-)
It seemed to me they all wanted the same damn thing. a carpenter that was faster than spit, kept his mouth shut and did as he was told, and didn't cost an arm and a leg. When a prospective employer asked me once, "how long would it take you to trim out a 12' x 12' room with a window, door, bifold closet, ranch casing all around and I replied uhh, I don't know,3 - 4 hrs. ? his reply was, "You're way off base, try 1 an hour" I knew I was destined to either learn business skills or put up with demeaning **** from someone standing over my shoulder all day.
Well, I've learned if someone told me they could trim a whole room in an hour, that's a red flag for a braggart. And I've yet to see one of those guys work out.The flip side of your comment about management wanting things done fast is that there are a lot of carps out there who seem to have a hard time with the concept that "time is money". I've seen people who would spend two hours running base shoe in the inside of a closet! Good grief don't they stop and think about what things cost and why? Once they get that hourly wage from us, then they slow right down. The good ones like to produce because they get satisfaction at the end of the day looking at what they accomplished.
Point is you get what you pay for IMHO. If you want ranch casing pinned in fast and cheap then pay someone $10.00 - $12.00/hr. You might get half a house done in half a day and if it's going to be painted then all the unsightly gaps can be caulked and gooped over and no one will know until things start drying out down the road and everything starts opening up looks like ****. But who cares? Everyone will be long gone and the owner won't even know or remember who to call or know that it isn't supposed to be that way.
I've trimmed out my fair share of $750k + houses and I've spent weeks coffering a ceiling or wainscotting a library and in the end it wasn't my time card that the owner looked at it was the finished product.
BTW, how is the "City of Hills" these days? I used to live up there in the late 70's early 80's?
I have very fond memories of that town and every summer I tell myself and the family we should trek up there once again when we visit MN.
Edited 4/11/2009 12:58 pm ET by ted
Well, I never brought up the guy who can trim a room an hour as a good thing. Usually the really fast work needs so much mop up that it isn't really fast after all. Plus we are remodelling 100 year old houses. Trim NEVER goes that fast in those babies.I don't really have a problem with slow careful work. We've got one guy who is a bit slower than others but by god when he's done it's done. No going back and finding sections of base unnailed, brads heads sticking out, sticking doors, etc. That's fine by me. But I've also seen slow and sloppy and like I said before people who can make the cuts but somehow can't stop themselves from spending hours on unnecessary details, like shoe inside of closets. Now there are clients out there who will pay for carefully detailed shoe inside of closets, but this is affordable remodelling. These are not custom homes.My goal here is to somehow find the good ones in an interview process.
I guess you could hire on a trial basis sort of thing. Offer employment as a sub for a few days and if it works out do a hire.
One hour?
I would have said "good luck, I would'nt hire you either"
Ted, I think it must be in the name. I'm that same way, ditto, to a T. (sorry, couldn't resist)
It's always been my weak point, that I can't sell myself or describe my work very well at all. A customer will ask how long something is going to take, and I cringe. I really, honestly don't know. And thinking about it just causes so much anxiety that I end up making mistakes, which cost more time, and cause yet more anxiety.
However, I keep getting hired back because in the end, I deliver quality results. I can work from drawings, but I can't make the drawings. It's in my head, in full color and three dimensional, but that's where it stays until I build it from the materials. I just can't get it out there otherwise. I don't know why, but that's just how I'm wired.
The way I see it, and for my own selfish reasons, it's the GC's job to know how long things should take, and what things should cost. My job is to deliver the product, and if it doesn't fit his or her timeline or cost forcast, then it's just not gonna work out. I feel a good GC has a realistic grasp of how much time it should take to accomplish any given task, and how much it will cost. If he doesn't, he's not a very good GC (and probably get's his jobs by underestimating).
Another common thing I run into is GC pulling me midstream from one task to another. The particular one who hired me because I said 10 till 7 (my previous post) had a bad habit of doing just that. One day I remember well, he started me trimming out a fireplace mantle. Didn't tell me what he wanted, just go there, there's a pile of trim, make it look nice. I was really getting into it, until he showed up and says he needs me to do something else, somebody else will finish the mantle. An hour later I'm on a garage roof laying shingles. GC has no idea what that does to my mental circuitry!
Oh, and don't even get me started about someone standing over me. If that's how they treat their employees, they may as well hire monkeys.
Sorry to ramble on. I guess your comment just touched a nerve.
Marson - this isn't pointed at you in any way. From your post I'm guessing you are definately not one of these GC I'm describing. I'm just blowing off steam.
Peace!~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
I'm in the same boat. good chance i'm going to need to hire 3-4 guys full time (I hope...I think....lol). I noticed a new poster here in BT a cpl of weeks ago who was looking for help in NC. HE had a buch of good questions so I took the liberty to bookmark his site and even wrote him complimenting him on his work and his site. http://www.skytopbuilders.net/html/carpenter_ii.html
I also have strongly considered moving to Asheville NC for some time and restarting my biz up there when and if my house here on LI ever sells. Who knows which way the wind'll blow?
One thing that sticks in my head is that if I hire someone on a trial basis...I'd hire him to start on a Tuesday or Wednesday which would give him 3-4 days to get a taste of working for me and me with him and by pay day on Friday we can either keep things going or part ways.
To me basic math is all I care about....right now. Some people...me included can put together projects better in my mind then on paper so I never discount anyone that doesnt know trig. Depends what I need someone for. The big framing jobs I sub out anyway because those guys are the ones with a dozen or more guys pounding, cutting and lifting.
I talk to potential employees about their likes and dislikes in life in general...about their family life married or not. This helps me determine they kind of character they have or don't.
There are those too that know a lot but their egos can slow a job to a screeching halt and have everyone at one anothers throats in a heart beat.
A crew that works well together can help one another learn because they want the company they're happy working for grow and prosper. Same as a relationship with your family.
Sometimes you have to look a bit further then the obvious building basics.
If a guy or gal has some good basic skills and you can see he or she loves their work...takes pride in it...is easy to get along with...and yearns to learn then they sound like a shoe in to me.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
AndyThat was a great website, and there was quite a lot to learn from that site. I wish I was on the ball as much as he is.Greg in Connecticut
Greg, I checked out that link after you commented that it was a good read. I like what the guys are trying to accomplish. They certainly are aiming in the right direction. It's kinda sad though, that they need to explain how to use the toilet facilities but I understand why they need to!
Unfortunately, I would only qualify for them as an apprentice (I can't lay roofing as fast as they need it) and I would be fired immediately on multiple safety issues.
Do you prefer beer or whisky with breakfast?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Which answer would you be looking for?
Mostly meant tongue-in-cheek but i'd probably look at body language. Do they think you're nuts for asking or do they lose eye contact with you.
The latter might not mean beer for breakfast, but maybe someone that drinks just a little too much.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Edited 4/11/2009 3:19 pm ET by MSA1
>>Do you prefer beer or whisky with breakfast?
depends who's buying.
I'd probably hire the guy that answered that way. Shows he thinks quickly and perhaps he'll buy me beer or whiskey.:>)
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
If you ask them to bring their tools and show them to you, you'll find out a lot right away.
Part of good interviewing seems to be your ability to get the prospect to talk. Ask about their plans. How long do they want to work here? What other sorts of work have they done? How did they come to leave their last job? What got them interested in construction?
And check their references.
That ain't a bad idea! Our last failure came across very well in the interview. Then he showed up with a brand new set of Rigid cordless tools. That raised my eyebrows. He supposedly had all this experience, but he doesn't own a circ saw?
Marson, don't be too quick to condemn the guy for showing iniative and buying a new set of cordless tools. Everyone buys new tools at one time or another and starting a new job is often a trigger to upgrade one element or another of their tool set. I don't possess a single cordless tool at this time and if I started a job that required them, I'd have to buy a new set. Personally, I don't like, nor use cordless tools. If I have to plug in a cord to charge a battery, I'd rather just plug in a cord to my drill and be done with all that monkey business for the day.
Anyways, getting to the real point that I wanted to make...
Did you throw out the baby with the bath water when you fired your new hire because he framed something 3/4" out of plumb in a rehab house? Couldn't you have just asked him to fix the problems and then judge him on the next framing job?
You mentioned that you had hired the best man available but then you tossed him out to work unsupervised. Is is possible that your systems of integrating new help are faulty?
After reading a bit about your current job workloads it appears you are looking for a jack of all trades type person. They do a lot of that here in Austin and I've found that most of these type people are okay in many areas of skill, good in some areas of skill, and lacking in some areas of skill. It's impossible to find an expert in every area. Those true masters are rare and they will not be working hourly for others. So, that leads me to the conclusion that you need to reset your hiring expectations and realize that you can't expect to hire workers and let them work unspupervised until they've spent some considerable time working along side of you or some other qualified trainer.
I've spent more than 30 years looking for that type of help and have yet to find one person that meets that criteria.
Thanks Jim for the thoughtful reply. The guy who got canned had more issues than his framing. Like missing an average of one day a week for various lame excuses, stretching his lunches to an hour instead of 1/2 hour, sloppy roofing, etc. I brought him up because he completely bamboozled us in the interview.This area has tons of jack-of-all-trades. We have never had the volume of building to allow the specialization that you see in other areas. We have had three successful new hires this winter.Your criticism about not supervising new hires is well taken. Our volume of work has relatively recently gotten to the point that I no longer can put my tool belt on and work with a new guy to sort of introduce him to our company culture. It's like we need to create a new layer of supervisor/carpenters. Course that's all we need is more overhead!
Our volume of work has relatively recently gotten to the point that I no longer can put my tool belt on and work with a new guy to sort of introduce him to our company culture. It's like we need to create a new layer of supervisor/carpenters. Course that's all we need is more overhead!
Look for Tim Faller's "The Lead Carpenter System".
You can teach your better carps to be leaders and do away with higher up management.
In my experience it doesn't always work for various reasons, many of which are discussed in the book.
A PM will have a good overview of all that is going on and may provide a better pulse of what kind of shape you are in production wise.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
I would start with these questions.
Do you wear a baseball hat? If so, is it pointed to the front? (not off to the side)
Do your pants fit (not 38 sizes too big) and is the belt line AT the belt line?
Are you constantly clicking a zippo lighter?
Do you listen to reasonable music at a reasonable level?
Does your parole officer know where you are?
Any jewelry beside a wedding ring or does it look like you fell face first into a tackle box?
If you get satisfactory answers to all those, then continue with the serious questions.
Dan
I meditate, I burn candles, I drink green tea, and still I want to smack someone.
I applied for a job once and the big question was "If I say be here at 7, what time should you be here?"
I was inclined to ask a counter question: "What is this, McDonnalds?", but I just said 10 till 7 and got the job.
Unfortunately, that's about how much the GC knew about contracting and the company went belly up in short time. So don't ask what time they should show up in the morning. Everybody knows to say the right answer.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
See my work - TedsCarpentry.com