Hello all,
I am gearing up to install interior stair treads (brazilian cherry), risers, and hand railings. I have done a bit of this but on rougher jobs (exteriors, simpler interior jobs) but this is a higher end job and I could use some guidence in this realm. If anyone knows of any good resources (books, websites, etc.) or has any advice, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Replies
Lowend: I just finished building five brazilian cherry stairways that were all in the same house. I would be more than happy to answer any questions about working with this wood.
Stan , would you come and participate in the board meeting under general dicussion ?
Thanks for the offer of advice. When I begin the stairs and have specific questions I will definitely take you up on the offer. I saw your cherry stairs and they are very nicely done. I do actually have a few questions. First off, how did you attach the treads? Second, do you have any advice on how to mark and cut where the stringer and riser meet, and how to make that a clean miter joint. Thanks much.
Lowend: I mortise my treads and risers into the stringers..then drive wedges under the treads and behind the risers to secure them.
The risers are pocket screwed and glued to the tread sitting on top of it and glued & screwed to the tread at the bottom of it. This makes a very strong I-beam effect with this very secure tread riser connection. The tread returns are also glued and pocket screwed....There are no visible fasteners this way. The stringers are cut at 45 degree miters. I cut the miters on the risers around 47-48 degrees so as the points are tight.
Heres a picture showing a curved stairway I built not too long ago showing the mortised stringers..and the pocket screws.
Edited 10/12/2002 4:47:20 PM ET by Stan Foster
Stan- what kind of screws did you use here? And don't tell piffin I was asking about it.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations, the other half gets so complex I don't deal with it.
I never had a problem with character, people have been telling me I was one ever since I was a kid.
don't tell piffin
Too late!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Rez: I use McFeeleys square drive screws. They are real tough. and the squared drive is the only way to go. I wish they would outlaw phillips screws..
Stan, Nothing wrong with Mcfeeley's at all. These heads do even better than square drives for not caming out though.
http://www.grkfasteners.com/.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin: I checked that screw site out..and will be ordering some. Thanks for the tip. I am always looking for better fasteners. Presently I use the square drive with the countersinking nibs on the heads. I can drive a 3 inch screw all the way and more into solid oak. However...the last year or so..either the screw heads are softerl..or my driver tips are wearing out quicker. It seems I am going through more driver bits than usual.
Tips can be of varying quality. I have a couple that I've been using all year. Other times, I'll go through three in a day. but it's the driver tip that snaps. Never a cam out. Almost all of their heads have countersinkiing flutes and the tips are self drilling, though for oak, I will still countersink to have a clean hole to glue the plug into.
Doing various kinds of remodel work, I use more 3" than any other. #9 for fines and #10 for structural. I go through a lot of 4" too. BTW these are metric sized so 3" is actually about 3-1/8"
Don't know if you do other work, but their lag head screws are good for cabinet hanging (sure do beat SR screws) and the larger lag heads work for hanging porch ledgers..
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 10/12/2002 8:52:05 PM ET by piffin
'sure do beat SR screws'... is that stainless recycled?:)Half of good living is staying out of bad situations, the other half gets so complex I don't deal with it.
I never had a problem with character, people have been telling me I was one ever since I was a kid.
Those screws look like others I have seen and used with a "star" or "Torx" drive. What makes them unique? The head shape? Points? Threads?
Stan, I see the pocketed screws going up into the treads through the risers. Is that a bench-mounted Kreg jig you are using? On a winder like the one shown, are the tread ends cut square, or given a curvature to match that of the stringer? Or is the routed tread housing cut straight, so the tread ends don't need a curve? And are those pocket screws I see in the stringers securing the wedges? My, my, those stairs will last for ten generations or more!
Gene: I do use a kreg pocket screw tool. I have often said that tool is my best investment ever.
I do always radius the tread returns and pocket screw them on as well. The stringers are also pocket screwed ..securing the treads.
Here is a picture of the radiused tread returns.
The metal is high quality. Maybe one in a thousand sanps off is all. The Torx head provides a lot more surface area to get torque on...
They usually have a display booth at the trade shows where you can impress yourself playing with them.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 10/13/2002 8:21:15 AM ET by piffin
PIffin: Those GRK thingys are great. Wish I'd known about them before I started my house. There is nothing I love more than strong glue & lots of BIG screws to hold things together. Apparently passed it along in my genes to my kids. DIL complains all the time about son's construction methods, and homes in on his prolific use of big screws.
Of course I can't get them anywhere near where I live, but what's new. there's always the web & UPS. Unfortunately, that requires that you plan ahead.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Stan: How do you bend that stringer around the wall? It has to be at least an inch thick. Then, how do you mortise on a concave surface? Do you build up a lamination in place?
Nice work - Bah! BEAUTIFUL work! Thanks for sharing. Made me think about how stairs should be done - but usually aren't.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don: I laminate the stringers onto curved forms that I build in my shop. I will attach a photo..however..you can find this discussion in further detail in the archives
I will warp my router baseplate with shims to match the radius of the stringer I am routing.
Thanks for the compliments
Stan, I'll buy the book when you write it!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Lets just trade books even up...deal?
Mine'll have a few laughs to get over the rough spots. I bet yours will have some ups and downs in it..
Excellence is its own reward!
Put me down for that book, also. Now I understand the photos in the original thread posting. The 2X4's we were looking at were in your shop. I thought it was the home they were going into. You must use a ton of new studs in your setup & forms. Necessary for a good job.
Thanks for the followup posting.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don: I reuse the studs and keep them stored in an upright bin..All that I lose is one sheet of 3/4 inch cdx plywood for each stairway to cut the curved plates out of.
Put me down for a book also and I will try to scratch my head through it .
You have always been so great to share your knowledge. I copied the curved molding threads also. WE are so lucky to have to here , and thanks again ,
Tim Mooney
But what do you do if you are covering a rough stair (2 x stringers w/ 3/4" ply treads and risers). Your stairs are wonderful.
Archy11: I dont quite understand your question..
I often frame the stringers in, three or four depending on the width of the space. Then I put temporary treads on for interim construction work. Flank stringers are 1-1/2" spaced from wall studs. This allows for 1/2" or 5/8" SR and a 3/4" skirt with room to spare.
But I don't permanently fasten the ply wood treads as Arch11 seems to refer to. I just screw them on so I can remove them later, twp or three at a time as I work the new treads and risers up the case.
Have to be carefull since the SR is on the bottom when I'm doing it. I haven't lost my screw gun yet but ....
Excellence is its own reward!
And you just got a new one too!!!!
Tim Mooney
What a memory!
someone's actually reading this stuff, I write!.
Excellence is its own reward!
I couldnt help it ! It was that ride back over on the ferry! I was so jealous ! Not about the drill! I think I beat your price on UBID. Try it , and dont ever say I never gave you a tip. LOL!
Tim Mooney
Aha! The Northern lights - wish I'd had a camera that night.
What and where is UBID? .
Excellence is its own reward!
I have a rough stair that has the stringers in place with glued and screwed 3/4" ply treads and risers. I don't see how I could use a housed stringer with wedges for the treads and risers (no access from below and no room for the house stringer). I had planned on cutting a dado in the risers and a corresponding rabbet on the treads. I was planning on installing the finish stringer and making templates for the treads and risers (scribing as needed). Glue and nail the treads and risers.
That'll work. It's similar to how I fasten them in on these kind. On more high end jobs, it would be glue and countersunk screws with plugs over..
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks Piffin. We have agreed on two separate threads. Kind of amazing.
Yeah, We're both getting better in our old age!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Stan, that is some beautiful work. My own stair experience over the years has generally been covered with carpet, so my own house is all single story! I am thinking about a 2nd story viewing pavillion, however, and will come to you first for thoughts on an exterior staircase for this, when the time comes. Or maybe you'll need a little vacation to St. Croix?!?!? (Virgin Islands, not Minnesota!) We'll talk more when I'm scratching my head and muttering to myself...
"If left is wrong, then right is the only thing left, right?"
And take a look at Stan's work in the photo Gallery
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=23708.1
Excellence is its own reward!
Yup, hes shore enough good . Im so jealous ! LOL.
Hes the leading stair guy here in my opinion, at least he has shown us his work on numerous occasions. All fine quality !
Stan , you the man bro! Thanks for being part of this this forum .
Tim Mooney
Tim: Thanks for the comments..but please dont overrate me....I will be glad to participate in the boardroom discussions..
OK, I just spent an hour browsing the site. I'm on the way to addiction. Do you really want to be biddin against me over there?
What's the deal. Is it a jobbers clearance hall? Are most tools new ort refurbished? Ever have any bad luck? Are you buying straight from them most times or drop ship from a tool warehouse?
I'm looking now at a PC Router with bid to 40 so far and about20 hours left.
Excellence is its own reward!
I think its a warehouse .
Tim Mooney