FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Help! Roof Flashing Question

constantin | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 11, 2005 05:46am

I am visiting some friends who just had their roof replaced in its entirety. The elected to go with a well-referenced roofing contractor who installed CertainTeed “Grand Manor Shangles” throughout. This last week, the place has had multiple leaks, which seem to stem largely from the roof valleys and chimney flashings. I went through the installation manual that CertainTeed published, and this install seems to diverge significantly.

For one, the valley flashingsa are only maybe 6″ wide and are covered by the shingles insead of being uncovered as shown in the manual. Furthermore, the shingles were not woven into each other (as I have seen on others roofs where there was no metal visible in the valley). Instead, the shingles were cut along the length of the valley on both sides, then sealed with tar. Is this normal?

I was also not impressed with the trimming of the copper under the valleys, as it extends into the gutter. I presume this will just lead to widespread overshooting of the corner. Nevermind, the adhesive release strips I still found attached to the shingles and the cover someone installed at the bottom of the roof valley (the pic with the banister), causing all the water to run down the wall.

The flashings around the real and fake chimneys diverges also, with none of the steps one usually finds along the edge between the chimney and the roof shingles. As installed, I suspect that the water runs down the face of the chimney and is then sucked under the shingles through capillary or whatever action.

Any thoughts on how to prevent the current widespread leakage that is plagueing this install? The valleys and flashings seem to be one source but more water is entering elsewhere via the ridges also, it seems. This looks like a big headache… Can this be fixed w/o ripping the whole roof off?

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. wrudiger | Oct 11, 2005 06:13am | #1

    Sounds like the state licensing board for starters...

  2. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 06:34am | #2

    constantin.. where is this  ?  what state ?  the techniques are so different from what we would do, i hesitate to start...

    are you sure both sides of the valley are cut ?

    View Image

    i see many  potential leaks.. i'd call Certainteed and see if i could get a factory rep out.. somebody  ain't following instructions

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
    1. User avater
      constantin | Oct 11, 2005 07:08am | #3

      Hi Mike,At least one side is cut overlapping slightly - imagine an offset running down the lenght of the valley, maybe 0.5" from the center - then seal the seam with tar. I have enclosed another set of pics that shows a different valley in better detail.The roof is maybe 3 months old. They've had a dry summer, so I imagine that was the saving grace until now. The homeowners also know they need new gutters, but I guess I would have done it all at once or not at all. The flashing against the walls with tar and the chimney's is off, no? I simply note how the old flashing (still lurking under the new stuff against the chimney) was applied per the instructions from CertainTeed in a step-wise manner.The location is NJ. I hope that this can be fixed w/o ripping most of the roof off. Also, what could cause ridges to leak?

      Edited 10/11/2005 1:54 pm ET by Constantin

  3. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 07:22am | #4

    well, i'd be surprised if there wasn't a leak in this picture ..

    View Image

    we'd never flash a chimney that way here ... that's a cut reglet and one piece flashing ... but i do know that it is often done in other parts of the country

    this is how a typical chimney would be flashed here..

    View Image

    as for valleys .... the grand manor is too thick to weave.. so it should either be an open valley  ( metal  ) or a California cut  ( minor roof turns up the major roof , and major roof gets cut neat in the valley line .... major roof sheds onto minor roof )

    but i'd have to check my Certainteed manual for their required valley install... Grand Manor may have some peculiar requirements

    ridges could be leaking if they were not properly lapped before they were capped..

     hard to say without being there

    i'd still give Certainteed a call for a looksee

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore


    Edited 10/11/2005 12:23 am ET by MikeSmith



    Edited 10/11/2005 12:25 am ET by MikeSmith

    1. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 07:35am | #5

      here's a California cut in progress

      Ice & water up the valley..

      View Image

       then minor roof lapping across the valley and up the major roof

      then major roof cut neat to the valley line

      Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      Edited 10/11/2005 12:37 am ET by MikeSmith

      1. User avater
        constantin | Oct 11, 2005 07:42am | #6

        Mike,Thanks so much for your thoughtful posts and the pictures. If my wildest dreams come true, I'll find out that the HO's took pictures during construction - at least then we'd know for sure how the roof came together, whether underlayers were used (looks like it), etc. Even though our Mansard has none of he difficult roofing details this home does, what I saw up there simply didn't make sense. My own house has a stepped copper flashing similar to the one you posted, so the lack of similar ones around the chimneys simply didn't make sense. I also agree that these shingles are unusually thick. I suppose that is supposed to make them very wear resistant? Time will tell, but I currently believe that my DuraSlate will last longer than this stuff.Many thanks again... do you think proper flashing can be retrofitted without too much damage to the roof?

        Edited 10/11/2005 1:55 pm ET by Constantin

        1. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 07:50am | #7

          cons....  i think someone was trying to save money..

           the tar on the clapboard tells me the sidewall flashings were no good, so, instead of pulling the siding off, replacing the flashings and then redoing the siding in conjunction with the roofing .. they just tarred it and hoped for  the best..

           seems like there may have been a lot of hoping for the best on that job

          hoping for the best usually results in leaksMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. User avater
            constantin | Oct 11, 2005 02:15pm | #8

            Good Morning, MikeThanks again for your analysis. I sent the pictures to my GC in MA who is doing our house and he just about bounced off the chair. The flashing detail issues even I could see, but he (like you) went into a lot more detail regarding what was done with the siding, the scarring to the shingles, the underlayment schedule, and all the other specific things that CertainTeed spells out in their installation manual.I also wonder to what extent the ridge and hip roofing was done properly, as I cannot see the "exhaust" vents up there. That's not to say they aren't there, I just need to climb up and take another look. Presumably, the wood of the deck has to cut back to expose something to vent into said venting shingle, right? Because their remedy in the main part of the house was to retrofit 3 Aluminum round vents. They also left a power venter in place, even though someone (and not necessarily them) has stepped on it and had broken the shroud that protects the house from water damage.I was also not too enamored with finding an empty McDonalds soda drink up there.I need to do some investigating this morning to find out if a permi was needed, pulled, etc. Also, we need to understand whether this installer is a CertainTeed-certified installer, and if so, where the lifetime warranty paperwork is. I also want to review their contract to see if my friends specifically declined to renew the step-flashing and other details where old meets new. Calling CertainTeed begging for them to send a rep out here to have a look might also be a good idea.In other words, looks like a busy morning.

          2. User avater
            constantin | Oct 11, 2005 06:20pm | #9

            Well, here is an update.As best as I can tell, the local township doesn't do roofing permits or inspections. The contractor is a big company but not CertainTeed-certified. He didn't know what a California-cut is but claimed that the roofing as installed was done that way. Your description (dominant vs. small roof) for the overlapping pattern does not seem to have been followed though.He also claimed that stepflashing was impossible because the old flashing had been grouted into the chimneys. My BS meter is now ringing at full-tilt because I don't see how difficult it is to remove old flashing and grout and properly set a new set that is stepped like the chimney in your picture. Allegedly, he will be back tomorrow to re-do the flashing.Outside the roofers responsibility is the ridiculous valley design that the Architect/Builder used in this place. Having a valley project into or exit right next to the corner of a house seems like a wonderful way to keep carpenters, roofers, and other people busy and the house wet. Allegedly, a carpenter will be on the way to re-do all the dormers and other exposed pieces of wood. However, do carpenters usually weave in the flashing? I thought that carpenters were there to apply wood over the flashing work done by the roof guys. But then again, what do I know.

            Edited 10/11/2005 1:59 pm ET by Constantin

          3. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 07:43pm | #11

            so, cons... what is your interest in this project...just a friend ?

            be careful about semantics... the roofer may just have a bad way with words

            i'm confused, so far you've mentioned NJ, Long Island and Mass... how did Mass get into the  equation..

            sounds like a fun situation..

             keep us in the loopMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          4. User avater
            constantin | Oct 11, 2005 08:50pm | #12

            Sorry for the confusion, Mike... I live in MA, my house under renovation is in MA, these folk live in NJ. I have a very good relationship with my GC in MA. Lets just say that my friends in NJ are very good friends and that they spent a ton of money to have the best roofing system (they thought) they could have installed. When the roof started to leak during the latest set of rainstorms, they asked me to come down and help assess the situation.I wasn't part of the roofing decision, as I would have advocated insulating the roof with an insulated deck to get rid of the ridge vents, etc. expand the conditioned space, and decrease their HVAC costs (some of their furnaces/air handlers are in the attic). But you already knew that I would lean in that direction, didn't you? :-PBarring a reconfig of the roof system, I would have steered them in the direction of DuraSlate or similar products. If the idea is to imitate slate, why not imitate really, really well? :-) However, I'm not convinced that these installers would have done a better job with the DuraSlate considering how well they did with the CertainTeed stuff.

            Edited 10/11/2005 11:21 pm ET by Constantin

          5. MikeSmith | Oct 11, 2005 09:06pm | #13

            Grand Manor is a great shingle.... it certainly deserved better than this ham & egger gave it

            for ridge vent i like  ShingleVent II... and  the Grand Manor has a special hip & ridge shingle  to cover it..

             the stupid mushroom vents are de'riguer in a lot of different areas of the country..

             especially in  the mid-west

             Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  4. User avater
    CapnMac | Oct 11, 2005 07:32pm | #10

    I have but one word:  Speechless.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 686: Brick Steps, Ground-Source Heat Pumps, and Greenhouses in Nova Scotia

Listeners write in about fireplaces affecting family harmony and bionic suits, before asking questions about brick steps, ground-source heat pumps, and building a dome greenhouse in Maritime Canada.

Featured Video

Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout

No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 686: Brick Steps, Ground-Source Heat Pumps, and Greenhouses in Nova Scotia
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Efficient HVAC for a New Build
  • Affordable Scans, Accurate Plans
  • FHB Summit 2025 — Design, Build, Business

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2024
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers
  • Issue 327 - November 2024
    • Repairing Damaged Walls and Ceilings
    • Plumbing Protection
    • Talking Shop

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data