Help – Walk-in Shower Code Compliance ?s
All:
Went through rough-in inspection for a remodelled bath and bedroom yesterday. Among the couple of nits there were 2 more significant issues noted that I hoped someone could help me out with…
Am constructing a custom walk-in shower: 75″W x 45″D x ~8’H; bounded on both sides & back with exterior walls (tile interior / stucco exterior). The entire enclosure will be hardibackered & Kerdi’d to the ceiling. Front wall is provided by a glass panel, floor to ceiling, with a ~2′ opening at the left for entrance/exit. Shower head will be ceiling mount (rainshower), located ~15″ from the right wall.
These details are less important than the pan design: framed (with tapered 2x stock & 1-1/8″ ply) a sloped pan to a center drain; hardibackered on top of the sloped pan; loads of glues, screws, thinset, etc… Rather than recessing into subfloor to provide the necessary drain, I laid 2 2×4’s on the flat to provide a front “curb”. However, rather than providing a drop-down “dam” on the interior side of the “curb”, I have the sloped shower floor (which is yet to be tiled) begin at curb height and descend down to the drain. Essentially, although there’s a small step-up at the shower entrance, there’s no associated “step-down” other than the mild slope to the drain…
The inspector seemed to get hung up on whether or not I needed a containment curb to complete the pan. I was not aware of the REQUIREMENT to have such a thing, only that if you HAD one it had to be high enough to be visibly obvious (trip hazard) but not too high that you couldn’t get into it…
Has anyone encountered such a situation? Are there UBC (which governs here in lovely Los Angeles) provisions which prohibit this style? Any suggestions on code “interpretations” that might help me seek approval?
My sense is that the inspector was not hard-over on his observation – although he took the time to document his half-dozen other nits on a “Notice to Correct Work”, he left this out. Although we did spend a fair amount of time discussing it, and he did pull out his copy of what he thought were the related code sections he wasn’t too sure of himself. He seemed to leave it open to me that if I could put together a decent argument that he could be convinced to let it go (although I suspect he’ll kick it over to the BO for a ruling)…
One other area that he did document – that I’ve included a 24″H x 36″W awning window, centered in the left wall of the shower enclosure. It’s sill is 49″ from finished floor height. Unfortunately, I didn’t spec tempered glass as I thought it was high enough and far enough from the center drain to be exempt from this requirement. Was my justification erroneous? Worst-case, I can probably just get the glass replaced but I would (obviously) prefer to avoid the cost…
I’m absolutely trying to do everything “the right way”. Anything that appears to be a deficiency I try to rectify without question. However, these 2 findings just seemed lacking in merit AND would require significant effort/$$ to change my existing work to meet…
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. I sincerely appreciate it…
Replies
For the window, check into a film that can be applied to the inside face of the glass to make it safety rated. There are films that are designed to withstand hurricane force winds. Might be a cheap effective fix.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Will, Check out
http://johnbridge.com
They will help with all tile questions
Inspectors can be a PITA but they also assist you in getting things done to code.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 12/6/2006 10:27 pm ET by stevent1
ask your inspector how a nude person would drive over the curb in a wheelchair unassisted.
your shower is no different than an ADA shower.
neither must have a curb.
is the Kerdi on the floor your waterproofing membrane ?
the window in the shower MUST be tempered. it's more than just the sill height. i don't have the code # handy, but that's the way it goes. sorry about that.
carpenter in transition
Tim, et al...
I'm familiar with John Bridge - got most of my Schluter/Kerdi info from that sight (even bought a Felker TM-75 from 'em!)...
I also mentioned the applied film - he wasn't too keen on that idea. Said that somebody could still put an arm through the window and cut themself trying to break a slip on wet tile...
I thought I recall seeing a requirement that any window within 5' from the shower drain must be tempered. If measured on the diagonal, my window's further than that from the drain. Not by much, mind you...
A certain amount of our "to curb or not to curb" discussion centered around accessability. However, I'm not sure I want to shoot for full ADA compliance as I'm bound to run into all sorts of other requirements that I don't satisfy (I'm afraid he'd require all or nuthin'!)...
Kerdi all over the place - set on top of the hardi. 1/4" on the floors, 1/2" on the walls. Will extend floor to ceiling and on the surface of the entire pan (immediately beneath the tile/thinset). I'll wrap it down the front step-up and out onto the "dry" floor area by a foot or so...
Thanks again for the quick responses - if anyone has additional understanding please help me out!
Jim
Any glazing within or around a shower must be tempered , safety , glass when the 'bottom' edge of the glass is less than 60 inches (five feet) above the walking surface or within 24 inches of the entry or a door. A stick on film isn't going to make it. The glass must come with a factory applied 'bug' or stamp, usually in one of the lower corners but it can be anywhere, that is visible to the inspector when the glass is in it's final position. It can't be covered up, the inspector has to be able to see it. It's hard to see sometimes but looking at it closely with a flash light in hand will reveal it's location. It's etched directly into the glass surface.
Cal plumbing code states, the shower receptor(pan) curb must be at least 1 inch lower than the sides of the pan. In no case shall any dam or threshold be less than two inches or more than nine inches in depth when measured from the top of the dam or threshold to the top of the drain. The floor of the pan itself shall slope uniformly from the sides toward the drain not less than one-quarter inch per foot , nor more than one-half inch per foot. The threshold shall be minimum 22 inches wide. Usually they have the rubber damn or hot mop in place with plugged drain, must stand 24 hours holding water w/o leaking.
Most of California is covered by 1997 UBC since they haven't yet adopted updated codes (combined). There's one caveat, some of the larger cities, San Francisco for instance, have their own code that sometimes throws a fly in the ointment. LA may be similar in code stance anyway.
One way to look at it, San Fran throws a fly in just about anything they touch. It's the most ridiculous "out there" city known to man with a philosophy unlike anything on this planet. Their building dept. is corrupt to the hilt though and a little money in the right place will get anything passed, short of an open fire pit in the living room.
One way to look at it, San Fran throws a fly in just about anything they touch. It's the most ridiculous "out there" city known to man with a philosophy unlike anything on this planet. Their building dept. is corrupt to the hilt though and a little money in the right place will get anything passed, short of an open fire pit in the living room.
Got an open fire pit here in town. In a very nice tribal cerimonial (sp) building.
Not sure what sort of code contortions occured, but I am sure nobodys palm was greased.
Did you fall asleep on the "enter" key?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
sorry about that.
not sure what happened. My mouse kinda went into automatic fire mode and would not stop. I just spent the last 2 hours fighting with this stupid thing. Kinda like herding cats.
sorry again
WW:
Thanks for the post - I appreciate the code quotes. As I recall, those sections are what the inspector was quoting. Again, I was just hoping that someone may have found an opportunity for a little "creative lattitude"...
I'll have to look into glass replacement - the frame's already glued, nailed and stucco'd in-place so whole window replacement is out of the question. Can't be too $$$...
As far as curb/pan/threshold req'ments, it looks like I'll need to add a small threshold to the existing pan edge. I've already thinsetted hardi to the framing. I can probably add a stack of thinsetted hardi "shims" - a stack of 3 or 4 @ 1/2" each, to the existing edge will give me easily more than the 2"+ height above the drain. Perhaps not the best remedy, but but a layer of thinset between each along with some screws and it ought to be essentially a cement club sandwich! Hell of a lot easier than ripping out the pan and doing it over again...
I'll do the leak test once the Kerdi's in-place...
Again, I appreciate the post...
Around these parts (CT) inspactors get to "interpret" the code book and its regulations. That means what I know as passing code is not necessarily what west coast knows. I always defer to the Inspector. I would much rather do it the way he wants it, than have all of the nightmares associated with a Building Official who doesn't like me. I think you just may be able to talk him into the acceptance of your curb layout. If he left it off the fix list, he didn't need it to be fixed. I might double check with him next time he's out, but It's probable that he had never seen it done that way and just needed to work out the idea in his mind. Anyone that can slow an Inspector down for a second is all right in my book. Good job!