help with making a winder handrail?
I need to ask a relatively dumb question I am afraid. Looking at Mr Fosters work, I know he and the rest of you know the answer, so here goes…
I need to build a staircase for a 50s split level. I guess code in the 50s was far from now, as the current stairs are so steep and narrow that I have to spin at the landing and back down the final 3 steps! The headroom is under 6 ft., and the width is 24″ or so.
So, the desire is to bring it up to code, while affecting the rooms above as little as possible. A tall order, but the so far the stair part is figured. The best solution is a winder. The total rise is 60″. So a few steps down, then a few winders, turning 90 degree, then a few more straight steps worked out to be the best solution for the room upstairs.
The question I have is this. How do I make the required inside hand rail? It needs to rise, then increase its rise rate (because the run/ rise ratio of the winders is 6/7.5, as opposed to the normal run/rise ratio of 10/7.5 for the non winder steps at the inside wall), then decrease its rise rate again. And it needs to turn 90 degrees over a radius of two feet or so, and of course, attach to something. In this case I will return it to the wall.
So, I know this is stuff guys like Stan Foster does in his sleep, but it’s new to me.
Do I purchase the slit peices from Coffman in the style my client likes and set up a jig, get a lot of clamps and go at it?
I would farm this out, but my calls have fallen on deaf ears,,,, it’s not that large of a job to attract the firms that have the ability. Things are very busy around here. Plus, it sounds like fun, and I might learn a few things too!
Thanks in advance for any and all opinions!
Replies
If I understand you correctly you are thinking that the rail will 'bend' from one rise/run (over the common tread nosings) to the other (over the winder nosings). I'm sure that is possible, and could be accomplished with the stacked-lamination rail parts that are glued up to the curve you need. However, I think most people would simply miter the rail out of straight sections. Start level at the bottom, miter up, miter up farther at the winders, level out at the corner, miter around the corner level, miter up again.... etc.
Jerrald Hayes posted a neat photo of a router setup that rides a curved rail and mills the profile into it. I've also seen guys running curved blanks thru the shaper. That's big-league stair rail stuff and not something most people will attempt.
Option#2Locate naturally curved tree/branch sections, peel and shape to size.I have done that a few times with sucess. Kinda rustic or can be elegant, depending on your stock and time exerted.I keep my eyes peeled for special hunks of wood just for those occaisions..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
I've also seen guys running curved blanks thru the shaper. That's big-league stair rail stuff and not something most people will attempt.
That's exactly the way I would do it. I don't think its all that bad but your not going to do this on site and its going to be time consuming=big money.
If you going to make this a continuos flowing rail that's what your going to have to do.
I wouldn't think that you could buy stock parts and do it, unless your going to do it like someone else suggested and miter the joints.
Doug
Newer codes don't necessarily apply to older homes...and,codes and winders...quite variable.
I did the set in the pics last fall. We work under the IRC. The ho's insisted on a 2x4 dimensioned railing. I came up with this, gave a call to inspections, and it was okayed. But it isn't to code.
I'm working out a 90° set right now...a graceful continuous inside rail would be way too challenging for me<G> Called inspections, and after a visit, I can run the rail on the outside, and there doesn't have to be a full 1 1/2" from the rail to the point where it crosses the balcony/stairwell nosing, just enough room for some sliding fingers...
...another thing, the handrail doesn't have to be continuous if it overlaps the one below ...can you post a pic of your set?
Thanks guys, great info..
I like the idea of a natural curve, but the look won't fly with the owner! LOL..good thing too, as I don't happen to have one on hand!
I was thinking about that sled I saw in another thread..pretty cool stuff. Good point about this being for the big boys! <g>
I can see how the "kits" would work well over a continious rise, but I can't see anyway to get it to bend in two dimensions. I wish there was a way to make it a continious rise, and let it fall in the range allowed by starting high 938") and finishing high, but letting the steeper area be at the minimum(24"). I will look at that option, perhaps I can ease the inside wall out into the stairs further, which would effectively reduce the rise/run ratio.
I really want to keep my nose clean with the inspectors,,,this area isn't known for using "judgement" and there is always the problem of asking Bob, getting approval, but having Ted show up and say "what're ya, nuts?? No WAY we would say thats OK"!
Billy ......I take it the project you are currently doing is the Starfield job. The set up is similar to mine, although I have a three step start before the winding starts. Looking at the shots, it appears that the inside of the treads isn't 6" deep, which I thought was required. Is it my eye? (probably) or am I mistaken about the minimum tread depth? (..not unlikely either! LOL) Codes...I wish there was a nightschool class so I could be confused weekly!
I will try to post a pic, but we haven't even torn out the old head buster set yet...Jake Gulick
Lateapex911@optonline.net
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Righto, Starfield is the present job...with the 3 risers, you'll probably have to rail to the botom.Your eye's ok...we have a 4" minimum at the narrowest part...The inspection dept can be your friend<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
and, on the Starfield job, the railing is allowed to run from 30"-38" above the nosings, so I'm not going to do any goosenecks... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Cool, you are a lucky man ! If I could get 30-38" I would be golden. But I know how the weather is around here. and it gets dark when stuff like that is brought up!
Thanks for the help. Tomorrow I will look at the design a bit, and we'll see. I thing the mitred approach might have to do....Jake Gulick
Lateapex911@optonline.net
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT