I am working with a contractor who is asking for Hem Fir for the top plates in a single story room addition we are working on. He feels that Hem Fir stays straighter than DF, helping to keep the walls straight. When I have asked about it at the lumberyards, they have given me that look like I was stupid or something (which is possible).
Have you ever used Hem Fir in top plates, or anywhere else in your framing? Is it worth the trouble?
Listeners write in about fireplaces and ask questions about sharpening hand tools, easier wiring upgrades, and fixing cedar siding.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
What I've seen labeled as hem-fir was mushy stuff like whitewood, whatever that is.
Kinda like celery, sorta.
He wants it, he supplies it?
Joe H
Hem Fir is a grade that encompasses five species of Fir, not including Doug Fir, and Hemlock.
The fir species have normal whitewood characteristics but the rule for Hemlock is to nail it down fast and firm before it starts drying and turning into pretzels.
Hem-Fir was created because they couldn't tell the difference between Hemlock and Fir at the lumber mill, IIRC. So in areas where both (or all 5) species exist, the wood is called Hem-Fir. http://www.wwpa.org/hemfir.htm
Hem-Fir was created because they couldn't tell the difference between Hemlock and Fir at the lumber mill
Lumber varieties are grouped into species with similar strength characteristics, primarily fiber strength and modulus of elasticity.
Out here in the Northeast, the predominant construction lumber is S-P-F (spruce, pine, fir), with almost all of it as spruce.
Eastern hemlock, however, is my lumber of choice. It has similar strength qualities as eastern spruce, but when installed green stays straight and true as it dries. Better than anything at the lumberyard in KD.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Right. The hemlock is western hemlock. And I think most of the fir is grand fir, which is the largest of the true firs. The wood has sort of a reddish-tannish tint. I believe I have also seen "white fir" stamped on framing lumber, which I think is fir of lesser quality, such as subalpine fir. It's more like the balsam fir of the midwest and east. The wood is pure white. We see a lot of Hem-fir...if I call the yard and specify "fir", with hem-fir is what they send. Structurally, I think it is between doug fir and spf. I haven't noticed that it is straighter than anything else. I do know that balsam fir makes a very nice straight stud, so maybe the same is true of it's cousin, the grand fir. I think back in the day when douglas fir was plentiful, they didn't really bother with western hemlock.
Where are you located?
In the southwest, they were using the terms hemfir and whitewood interchangeably, and I have no idea what the actual species was. It was inferior to the doug fir I was used to working with in N. cal., but you could get it relatively fresh (and straight), whereas the D. fir was drier from the shipping, and had already warped.
The eventual warp from what they were calling "hem fir" was much, much worse than the final warp of the same grade doug fir, but, you could nail it green before it went crazy, whereas we never saw #2 doug fir in N.M. that hadn't already done its thing.
k
If you want straight plates, use LSL- not only will they be straight, but you can get 'em in long lengths, eliminating splices.
Edited 1/5/2009 11:43 pm ET by KFC
I'm in So Cal- I've seen whitewood at HD, but I can't imagine using that #### for framing- it's pretty junky looking.
Yeah, we sent back or turned into blocking a ridiculous amount of it. Kind of p'od the local lumber supplier in Santa Fe. We ended up using a lot of LSL.
I'm back in N.Cal now, it's all D. Fir, and the #2/btr from our local yards is usually quite nice. I can't imagine going out of my way to find hemfir. Maybe some so. cal guys can shed some light on the situation...
What's your guess?
k
At the local Home Depot, HF is the only wood that is actually dry. All the DF is soaking wet. By me, the HF is the only stuff you can actually count on to start straight and stay straight (no rain here), which may be why he's specing that. It's just easier to work with in that location (plates).
One room addition = quick and simple. Dry straight wood is that.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
We mostly use Hem-Fir for joists, studs, plates, rafters etc. But when walls get taller, 9' and up I prefer to use dougfir.
Around here, DF is now special order.
I may be wrong but I think the lines of wood species have been blurred.
From what I understand when they clear cut now the come in behind it and plant trees they have cross bred.
The trees they have bred aren't any of the above, but a new variety.
Have they started genetically engineering trees for lumber? I wouldn't be surprised.
I don't know if they genetically engineer them, but the tree nurseries that supply the forestry companies around here have spent a lot of time and money developing fast growing species that produce almost identical trees. Going into the back country that has been planted with second growth can be sort of disconcerting then you find yourself looking at a valley of trees each indistinguishable from its neighbors.
Up until a few years ago we had a seedling nursery near us. They didn't genetically engineer but they did select for genetic characteristics in an attempt to supply seedlings appropriate for conditions at each replanting site. Unlike the wild where the seed stock is obtained from many trees, the nursery obtained it's stock from a fairly small plantation of the selected trees and that plantation was the source year after year. From what I know of genetics, that will tend to homogenize the forests and actually reduces it's survivability in the face of infrequent catastrophic events.
Here in BC exactly that is playing out in the interior forests which have been planted with very few species and have proven to be very susceptible to pest infestations. The Mountain pine beetle has devastated large areas.
When I moved to Vancouver Island 20 years ago all the framing lumber was fir. Now it is almost exclusively spruce. Apart from griping on principle, I don't really think it has any effect on the houses I build. The quality of the cedar available has really declined, and as unlike framing it is usually exposed to the elements, its longevity is much less than it was.
The seedling nursery I referred to was originally the MacBlo operation in Cedar just outside of Nanaimo. I've also noted the decline of Doug Fir but don't mind the lighter weight of the spruce. We usually see Hem-Fir in the larger dimensional lumber, I suppose because of the better structural properties. I buy my cedar from a mill at the head of Ladysmith Harbour, great price for very nice wood but not kilned or surfaced.
Apologies - I forgot you were on the island. Here I was lecturing you about your own backyard. The spruce is nice when you are working by yourself and doesn't split when you toenail but somehow it just doesn't feel like "real" wood.
We're in for even more rain tonight!
I can't remember the last time I was so happy to see rain. We started with the snow on the 12th, up to 24" within a week and snotty since. I'm just starting to see mt driveway again so a couple of days of rain should clear it up nicely. Fortunately I'm working at home in shop on an order of chairs so it hasn't been a dead loss.
Hope this rain thaws you out. It hasn't done us any favors here: the road is washed out both to Renfrew and Victoria. Really don't like to complain when I see what the rest of the country is facing, but it's awfully hard to get anything done.
Ouch, that hurts. Tough to be cut off when you're so close to civilization.
I was at Ft Lewis for 3 years as a grunt. I got to love the forrest and big trees.
The best place in the forrest was under a big one. Dry and warmer.
A big Red Cedar especially. The branch form uses gravity to deflect the water out and away from the trunk and they are thickly branched so stay quite dry and sheltered from wind underneath. The deer here use them as shelter in snowfalls like the recent one.
I'm not saying it is right or wrong really. I know if I was trying to grow trees for lumber I would want to plant the best tree possible for lumber. It just makes sense.
It's like a farmer growing corn. He wants the highest yield and price he can get.
I don't think these trees are hem or fir, but something that has the best traits for selling lumber. That is their business.
The lumber companies have been clear cutting for a long time. If people don't like it they can try to stop it. Good luck with that.
I think the laws governing open spaces will change eventually. But only after there is a lot less open space. Most people in the U.S. still think the west is like an open frontier with unlimited resources.
That way of thinking is changing, but slowly.
Edited 1/7/2009 12:28 am ET by popawheelie
Apart from narrow strips along the coast and protected parks, the interior of Vancouver Island is one big scar. Despite concessions on environmental standards and tax breaks the industry is in its death throes. Some other model for harvesting will no doubt emerge as this current one of farming trees doesn't make economic sense here anymore
I agree. For to long we have used an economic model for just about everything.
I'm not advocating throwing economics out. There has to be a balance though.
Politically, ( here I goooo), there has to be a balance between all the parties involved.
For to long, the corporations and their lobbies have had to much sway.
Anything out of balance can't last.