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Discussion Forum

Herringbone Flooring

tatekata | Posted in General Discussion on March 31, 2009 04:50am

I’m doing a reno for a housing company, they are moving offices and I’m the lucky one who got the call to renovate an old office building space they leased.  The interior designer makes changes on the hour as I’m working……

She’s decided that the meeting room should have a herringbone design for the floor.  Its a small room, 16′ x 12′.  They’ve provided me with a bunch of leftover Bruce pre-finished flooring.  Its random length stuff, not cut to size for herringbone designs.

Is it possible to do a herringbone design with random length flooring?  I’ve never done it, so it may sound like a stupid question…..  Can I cut all the pieces I need to the proper lengths and still make it work, or do I have to have the tongues and grooves on the ends to make it work.

Instinct tells me its not possible…  any ideas?

SS

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  1. john7g | Mar 31, 2009 05:21pm | #1

    If you had a way of machinging the T&G on the end cuts it might work.  But something makes me think the floor will be a squeak-fest not too long after your done. 

     

  2. frenchy | Mar 31, 2009 05:32pm | #2

    Use bisquits to stop movement off the ends  (movement is what produces squeeks) 

     massive amounts of labor involved.. first cutting the pieces to one standard length.. (can do it with a stop block clamped into your SCMS) then use your bisquit joiner on the ends..

     Normal herribone is done with precut squares and goes down fast.

      Explain to her the labor involved in doing this will be at least 4 fold over normal install. 

    1. User avater
      tatekata | Mar 31, 2009 11:24pm | #6

      I was thinking about biscuits too....  helluva lotta work though!! 

      Everybody has confirmed my concerns anyway - lots of labour, the ends will not be beveled on one side, floor will squeak (that the designer said was OK), but it is possible....

      The company is paying me a daily wage for that job, so, why not give it a try right?

      SS

      1. brad805 | Mar 31, 2009 11:47pm | #7

        LRH Enterprises sells a flooring set for a router.  You could end match on site, but it will be quite a bit of work.  I have made my own flooring and it usually takes me around 2hr to end match 300sqft of flooring on the shaper.  Not hard, just boring.

        Brad

      2. User avater
        Ted W. | Apr 01, 2009 02:35am | #8

        Just a thought, but can you fire the desiger? =D~ Ted W ~

        Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com

  3. Piffin | Mar 31, 2009 05:51pm | #3

    it's possible - at time and materials cost.
    very time consuming to produce by the piece on the job

    You will need a router table there to mill end cuts to the T&G, glue, and patience.

     

     

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  4. FastEddie | Mar 31, 2009 07:26pm | #4

    Biscuits work, but rout a full width slot with a router and use pieces of slip tongue, or floating tenon.  Many hardwood floor stores carry it.  Use a stop block on your miter saw and cut all the pieces to uniform length.  The harsd part is going to be keeping the pattern tight.  You need to snap parallel lines across the whole floor.

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  5. Aaron | Mar 31, 2009 10:02pm | #5

    I would not do it with the flooring you have.  At the very least, you will have a bunch of cut ends that will highlight that they are not finished nor beveled.

  6. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 04:02am | #9

    This is one of my early floors.  Obviously had too little sense and too much confidence.  The space is 6x6 ft and took 22 hours.  Lots of slip tongues.  Wood is prefinished solid maple and bloodwood (I think).  The inspiration came from viewing Ian's website.

    View Image

    View Image

     

     

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

    1. john7g | Apr 01, 2009 04:03am | #10

      very nice!

      what's under it?

      Edited 3/31/2009 9:03 pm ET by john7g

      1. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 04:05am | #11

        I pulled up the carpet and pad, laid a piece of 30 lb felt, and nailed the wood to the plywood subfloor.  Height worked out perfectly with the door and carpet transition.  That was my neice's house and she is tickled pink.  She still gets ooh's and aah's from visitors, and that was done 4 yrs ago."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

      2. DanH | Apr 02, 2009 07:51pm | #33

        >very nice!
        >
        >what's under it?His mother-in-law.
        The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith

    2. User avater
      JDRHI | Apr 01, 2009 05:36am | #12

      That's freaking gorgeous man!

      It looks as though the flooring is actually basket weaved. How did you achieve that effect? Bevels to squared edges? Grain of flooring?

      Ian would be impressed himself. He did some awesome work.

      J. D. Reynolds

      Home Improvements

       

       

       

      1. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 06:21am | #13

        It's called basket weave.  Very simple in theory, executioon was relsatively simply.  need good layout lines and very considtent pieces.  the colord dots are perfectly square, the light strips are exactly 4x the size of the square.

        Interesting part was she already had the walls painted with the maroon color, so it's looks like a decorator was involved.

        "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

        Edited 3/31/2009 11:22 pm ET by FastEddie

        1. User avater
          JDRHI | Apr 01, 2009 03:50pm | #16

          But there's nothing different about the individual pieces that gives it the apearance of an actual weave?

          Or is just a trick played on the eyes caused by the layout and contrast of the colored squares?

          J. D. Reynolds

          Home Improvements

           

           

           

          1. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 06:36pm | #18

            Actually, I'm trying to be modest.  In reality all the light colored boards are continuous 6 ft long, and they are woven together like a fine basket.  I had to steam them about an hour to get them pliable enough to work with, and I used a lot of clamps to keep them flat until the cooled and dried.  The red squares were fastened to the floor first with careful attention to the layout lines, and these were used as jigs or benchmarks for getting the light wood aligned correctly."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

          2. User avater
            Matt | Apr 02, 2009 03:12pm | #28

            >> In reality all the light colored boards are continuous 6 ft long, and they are woven together like a fine basket.  <<

            Call me a DA, but are you serious about that????  If so, how thick are the 6' boards?

          3. BenM | Apr 02, 2009 04:08pm | #29

            FastEddie wrote that on April 1.  Read it keeping that in mind.

          4. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 07:45pm | #30

            Call me a DA, but are you serious about that????  If so, how thick are the 6' boards?

            They are 3/4" solid wood boards.   I didn't think I could bend engineered floring like that.  man you should have seen the steamer setup I had to rig up to get the boards to bend like that.  And then I had to work real quick before they cooled off ... ended up with some serious burns on my hands from the hot wood."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

          5. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 07:51pm | #32

            Matt, I explained in a previous post that all the boards are cut to exact lengths, and when someone asked the question again, seeing how it was April 1, I couldn't resist answering that way."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

          6. User avater
            JDRHI | Apr 02, 2009 10:45pm | #34

            all the boards are cut to exact lengths

            Do you mean specific lengths....as in unless they are cut to those measurements, the effect won't work?

            J. D. Reynolds

            Home Improvements

             

             

             

          7. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 10:57pm | #35

            Right, they must all be cut to very consistent sizes.  The accent squares must be perfectly square.  They can be any size, but I made mine the same as the width of the maple.  You could make them smaller so they were less noticeable, just make sure they are square.  The maple boards that I laid are exactly 4 times the width.  That allows for 2 perpendicular maple boards and the 2 adjacent accent squares. 

            Let's say the maple boards are 4" wide and the accent square is 4".  Then the maple boards would be 2x4" + 2x4" = 16" long.  If you reduced the accents to 2", then the maples would be 2x4" + 2x2" = 12" long.

            "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

            Edited 4/2/2009 3:59 pm ET by FastEddie

    3. User avater
      Ted W. | Apr 01, 2009 07:44am | #14

      Nice floor... really nice! However...

      "Obviously had too little sense and too much confidence."

      I don't get that part. It makes complete sense and the confidence appears well justified. Is it that 22 hours is too long? That's the learning curve.

      Anyway, here's one more Ooooo and Ahhhhh. =)

      ~ Ted W ~

      Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com

      Edited 4/1/2009 12:44 am by Ted W.

      1. User avater
        Matt | Apr 02, 2009 03:04pm | #27

        That floor is awesome....

        >> I don't get that part. It makes complete sense and the confidence appears well justified. Is it that 22 hours is too long? That's the learning curve. <<  

        I'm gonna do a little guessing and math here....  Let's say a fair minimum wage for craftsman is $35 an hour.  So, 22 hrs is $770.  Material guess might be $5 a sq ft x 36 (6'x6') = 180.  So we are at around $950.  Add in a little time for fetching materials....  So, we are at around $27 a sq ft.  Can't really say I've heard of too many floors that were $27 a sq ft..  And, something tells me that he didn't charge his niece that...  OK - so you say it's a learning curve.  And again, guessing, part of what he learned is how much he would have to charge to do that kind of floor.  But I don't see any other pics of the subsequent floors he sold and installed based on that one...  So it sounds like the besides the satisfaction of doing an awesome project, learning something, and getting a pic to back it up, he didn't exactly put bread on the table. 

        Back to the OP's situation - it sounds like he should just go with a time and materials charge.  Designers need the grounding of knowing how much good ideas cost... :-)  EDIT TO ADD: he says he is getting paid a daily wage, so "why not?".  Agreed, but maybe he should first tell who ever is paying him that he estimates the floor will take a week and a half - or whatever it is....

        Edited 4/2/2009 8:15 am ET by Matt

        1. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 07:49pm | #31

          You're correct on several points.  I calculated the value of the finished floor at about a grand, but that's not what I charged them.  And you're right that $27/sf is high, but you need to consider a couple of factors: small space, detailed work, more of an architectural element than a normal wood floor.  Actually, all the material was leftover from another job, and they fed me a couple of good meals.  We called it even at that.  It was paybacks to her father too."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

          "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

    4. User avater
      tatekata | Apr 01, 2009 02:42pm | #15

      NICE FLOOR!!  That's a hard act to follow. 

      I think it would be faster for me to fire the designer....

      SS

    5. User avater
      brian_pontolilo | Apr 01, 2009 04:46pm | #17

      Hey FastEddie, nice work!

      If you post these photos in the Gallery, with a little info on the wood species and techniques, we might be able to use it in the magazine.

      Just a thought....Brian P. from FHB

      1. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 06:37pm | #19

        I'm going to plead ignorance and ask for an explanation of the gallery.  Where do I find that?"Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

        1. User avater
          brian_pontolilo | Apr 01, 2009 06:51pm | #20

          Look Up! Click on the Gallery Tab. I think you'll have to register, but once you're done, it's super easy to load photos and descriptions. We published a new department in the last issue called "Project Gallery," and hope to continue. It's a great way for us to get inspiring projects from our readers into the magazine. But it hinges on the number and quality of the posts we get. Your work certainly meets the quality criteria.

           Brian P. from FHB

          1. FastEddie | Apr 01, 2009 10:06pm | #21

            Oh THAT gallery!  You realize there's a catagory on this forum called gallery.  I wondered why you wanted me to post it there.  :)"Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

          2. User avater
            brian_pontolilo | Apr 01, 2009 10:14pm | #22

            You got it, now get to it. And encourage your BT cohorts to do the same. There's too much talent on here not to share.

            Thanks,Brian P. from FHB

          3. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 06:01am | #24

            Added two projects to the gallery."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

      2. mikeroop | Apr 03, 2009 12:57am | #36

        so how does it work? post it in the gallery and you use it for free? or submit it and get paid?

        1. User avater
          brian_pontolilo | Apr 03, 2009 02:33am | #37

          Hey Mike,<!----><!----><!---->

          If you would like to contribute to FHB, you can choose to take one of many routes. <!----><!---->

          We pay authors well for how to, design, and building science articles, among many other topics that we publish as features in the magazine. We also pay for any submissions that we publish in Tips&Techniques, Tools&Materials, What's the Difference, Building Skills, Drawing Board, Master Carpenter and Great Moments. These stories and departments typically start as proposals (either proposed from author to editor or visa versa) and develop slowly with input from the author, editor and art director.  <!----><!---->

          The Project Gallery is a celebration of our readers work submitted on Finehomebuilding.com. We may pay for the rights to use some professionally taken photos or pay a contributor who we ask for additional work, but we'll make those decisions on a case by case basis. <!----><!---->

          I sense some skepticism in your questions, but I assure you, we are not out to take advantage of anyone and that some folks are simply excited to share their work with us and our readers without profiting from the experience. It also sounds like you're interested in the editorial process, so I hope you will consider submitting article ideas to the magazine and posting your work in the Gallery as you see appropriate.<!----><!---->

          Thanks,

          Brian P. from FHB

          Edited 4/3/2009 6:35 am ET by BrianP

        2. FastEddie | Apr 03, 2009 04:31am | #38

          You get your name and picture in print, and a couple of free issues to pass out to your friends.  Got a better deal going?"Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

          "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

    6. JTC1 | Apr 02, 2009 12:26am | #23

      That floor is beautiful.

      Why don't you just send a photo of that over to the designer and tell them to forget the herringbone.

      JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

  7. Don | Apr 02, 2009 08:11am | #25

    Go to Lowes or the Home of the Pot Paint Dept & beg for a BIG batch of paint stirrers. Then use a router to cut slots in all ends. There is a metric sized bit that is a perfect fit, A lot easier than biscuits. Glue of course.

    Don

    Don Reinhard
    The Glass Masterworks
    "If it scratches, I etch it!"
    1. FastEddie | Apr 02, 2009 02:50pm | #26

      Don, the grain goes the wrong way in paint sticks.  You want it to be the short direction for strength.  1/4" plywood makes good splines, and they sell quarter sheets and smaller."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

      "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

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