Replies

1. 
   Lisa_Long | Oct 29, 2001 10:33pm | #1

   *
   Well, much to my surprise someone here took great offense at it and asked Andy to delete it. They also reportedly informed Federal authorities about it. I don't know quite what to say, except that I am very sorry and never meant to harm or discredit anyone.

   I am taken aback at this. I try really hard to stay on an even footing with other people, to be fair, to consider other people's opinons and to avoid debates that turn into fights. I just don't understand how this could have been taken so wrong. Live and learn, I guess. :-(

1. 
   Luka_ | Oct 29, 2001 10:45pm | #2

   *You have GOT to be kidding me.

1. 
   Lisa_Long | Oct 29, 2001 10:47pm | #3

   *Most unfortunately, I am not.

1. 
   Luka_ | Oct 29, 2001 10:48pm | #4

   *Only one word.Reeeeeeeediculous.b : /

1. 
   SHGLaw | Oct 29, 2001 10:52pm | #5

   *I never saw the thread, but I can't believe it either. What kind of nonsense is that?SHG

2. 
   Dave_Arbuckle | Oct 29, 2001 11:05pm | #6

   *I'm just glad you showed back up. I was afeered the Feds got you.People take offense at odd things. Sure didn't see a problem with what you posted.Dave

3. 
   Lisa_Long | Oct 29, 2001 11:06pm | #7

   *I have also been told that there has been a call to ban me from this board. I will leave on my own accord if Taunton asks me to. But I will be sad.

4. 
   Luka_ | Oct 29, 2001 11:13pm | #8

   *I don't believe for a minute that you would be banned. If you were, I'd leave in protest.(Now, that's a reason that will get a LOT of votes for your ban. LOL)

5. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Oct 29, 2001 11:25pm | #9

   *I'm in shock, Lisa. Someone fromb here had it banned? Theb Feds?This is beyond ridiculous. 'Specially in view of the other things flying around in here. It wasb harmless andb humorous for cryin' out loud!Having you banned is even more so.Dano

6. 
   Lisa_Long | Oct 29, 2001 11:33pm | #10

   *Well, thanks guys. I feel a little better now. Hopefully someone was just having a bad night and took my post the wrong way. I gotta go mow the lawn now. I don't think the tears running off my chin are too good for my keyboard.

7. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Oct 29, 2001 11:40pm | #11

   *I can't believe this!!!Fact is, I'm so p*ssed right now, I'm spittin' bullets and have a case of the jaws like a gorilla!How in hell can Taunton allow some of the swearing, name calling, and all the other stuff that goes on over here and then b censor a post with no explanation andb then threaten to ban Lisa?Now, I've only been around here for a couple of years, mostly over at i Knots as I've said elsewhere. But, I've seen quite a few of Lisa's posts and she is always the perfect Lady.Un-f**king-believable. Man, I gotta go smoke a cigarette.Dano

8. 
   SHGLaw | Oct 29, 2001 11:48pm | #12

   *>I have also been told that there has been a call to ban me from this board.This is way over the top. Did you hear this from Andy? Who wanted to ban you. This is getting more and more bizarre. Lisa, who wanted to ban you?SHG

9. 
   cls | Oct 30, 2001 12:09am | #13

   *Lisa, if they try to make you go I'll organize the Cooks - we'll get someone to organize the Gardeners, too. We won't let you leave. I didn't see the thread but I find it hard to believe you could post something so horrible they'd ban you. I mean, they didn't ban Brisketbean, and he fans flames of hate and discontent higher than anyone I know. And some of the flaming down-and-dirty fights that this place has seen didn't result in anyone getting banned. Who in the world would report you to the authorities? That's ridiculous. If someone is so thin-skinned they don't belong anywhere NEAR the Woodshed.

10. 
    Dave_Arbuckle | Oct 30, 2001 12:10am | #14

    *For posting a link? That's nuts.Is this one of those one person calls?Dave

11. 
    Theodora_D. | Oct 30, 2001 12:26am | #15

    *Guys, I am one of the people who responded to her post, teasing her about it, and definitely I was teasing. I was incredulous that such a site existed but I didn't see any harm in her posting it. I'm sorry if by responding to it I made things worse for you Lisa. If you go I will go, too.She didn't even say anything. SHe was just pointing out what someone else said, as in "Do you believe this?"

12. 
    Pi | Oct 30, 2001 12:26am | #16

    *Hello, Lisa, my name is Carole(Pi)......I'm a public school teacher in Cleveland, Ohio and have gotten into my share of scrapes here......Everyone here(I think) knows how strongly I feel about free speech.....Our country was founded on the premise that we all have the right to express our opinions.....I want you to know that I didn't read the thread, but nothing you could have said would could have mitigated a censorship of your thoughts.....Hang in there, woman and don't ever be afraid to express your thoughts.......

13. 
    Cami_A | Oct 30, 2001 12:35am | #17

    *Lisa, I read your thread before it got pulled; I even clicked on the link. I personally believe you did NOTHING wrong. If I remember right, you just asked if it was for real or not- it's not like you said to send money!!! Don't let one or two thin-skinned, narrow-minded individuals get you down, and don't be afraid to use your Wooster when needed...

14. 
    Lisa_Long | Oct 30, 2001 12:42am | #18

    *A round of virtual drinks on me - for one and all. You are good people. Andy has contacted me and said he has no plans to ban me - and also asked me to stay. I think this is just a case of someone being very on-edge and not quite realizing how on edge they are. We need to be very careful folks, things are not as they were 9/10.Since I believe this was an honest mistake, I see no purpose in giving names or pursuing it any farther. If it was a mistake then they probably already feel badly enough, and if it wasn't I don't want to pursue it publically.Ah, very good, here's the bartender with our drinks. Now, what did everyone order?.....

15. 
    Danford_C._Jennings | Oct 30, 2001 12:43am | #19

    *Okay, I've had my cigarette(s)......From 911 to the present there has been much written here about these events and how we have been impacted. Emotions have run high and wild, mine as well. We have expressed our shock, anger, sadness, the whole nine yards. We have questioned our govenment, our military, and even each other sometime with eloquence and compassion other times with anger and spitefulness, again I include my self with the "we".I also know that Taunton is very aware of the 1st Amendment issues that revolve around a forum and are normally very reluctant to delete a post much less an entire discussion. I know this from a discussion that I started on the 18th of April this spring where I had simply postedi The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. In short this posting generated a brawl that was beyond belief. I was astounded and extremely angry at what it had turned into. I contacted the Administrator at the time, via e-mail, and requested that it be deleted. His response was that there were 1st Amendment issues involved, other postings, that restricted him from doing so and that I should not worry. Anywho, it started degenerating to the point where I actually called him up on the phone and demanded that he delete the discussion in no uncertain terms. He did, and as a result I took a considerable amount of flak, because I couldn't let him take alone. This was handled publicly and privately.It is now 2:18PM PST, I saw that Lisa's post was gone at around 6:00AM PST, at this point in time there has been no explanation about this censorship from Taunton. This not only surprises me, it concerns me. Yes, this is their home and we are their guests however, at least out of respect one should have been given.If we are to get back to our "normal" lives, as our president asked us to do, should we now fear censorship here? That the Federal Government appears to have intervened, are we also to believe that what we say here is under scrutiny? Am I to expect a couple of Fibbies to come knocking on my door or calling me on the phone for what I have said previously and for what I an now writing? If not, how does one explain the violation of Lisa's 1st Amendment rights? What does this do to our faith and trust in our government, not to mention our(my) belief in Taunton's regard for that same Amendment? So many questions, so few answers.Dano

16. 
    Pi | Oct 30, 2001 12:43am | #20

    *A vodka martini on the rocks.....with a tomalive......

17. 
    Danford_C._Jennings | Oct 30, 2001 12:56am | #21

    *Lisa,I posted the above, obviously, while you were posting your message. I am not trying to "rabble rouse" at your expense. And will not make further comments in this thread. For now, I will let the post stand unless you wish me to delete it.DanoJohnny Walker Black, on the rocks and thank you.

18. 
    Dave_Arbuckle | Oct 30, 2001 12:57am | #22

    *Gin and Tonic here. Thanks to ya, Lisa. :-)Dave

19. 
    Mike_Gabriel | Oct 30, 2001 01:05am | #23

    *Amen PI!!Lisa, I'm sorry i missed it.

20. 
    Rich_Beckman | Oct 30, 2001 01:12am | #24

    *Lisa,I thought it was a good thread. An interesting thing to keep an eye on.Glad your staying.Rich Beckman

21. 
    Theodora_D. | Oct 30, 2001 01:38am | #25

    *The Electronic Frontier Foundation is an organization that observes and reports on the impact of current events on our freedoms on the Internet, and raises lots of interesting questions about many web sites that may or may not create the sort of problem we have seen happen here. I found this out because tonight I am reading the chapters in my library science textbook on ethical issues in information policy. I just read John Perry Barlow's i A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace.This is interesting stuff and I am amazed to find myself right in the middle of a real life issue involving it.And Lisa, I'm really pleased for you. You patently meant no harm and caused none, girl.Can I have a hot chocolate with Kahlua?

22. 
    Mike_Smith | Oct 30, 2001 01:50am | #26

    *lisa.. i clicked on your post and found it amusing.. too bad some got no sensayuma....

23. 
    Bob_Walker | Oct 30, 2001 02:30am | #27

    *Lisa:"I try really hard to stay on an even footing with other people, to be fair, to consider other people's opinons and to avoid debates that turn into fights"Well, whadda ya expect? I'm usually that way but the Tavern turns me into a raving lunatic (and I'm clearly not alone there either!)Being fair? Considering other's opinions? Avoiding fights? b Throw da bumette outta here! I'm glad to hear it's blowing over, and appreciate your decision to not name names, etc.A Jack Daniels here, rocks, water on the side.

24. 
    Ron_Teti | Oct 30, 2001 02:34am | #28

    *Lisa,I looked at your post and the link. I didnt think about it either way. I do think that some folks have some pretty thin skin now. Especially after 9/11 and the anthrax stuff. I mean no one really know who is posting for real after all Lisa I could really be Elvis and no one would know it. thank ya thank ya very much... but dont sweat it Andy is pretty good about things I mean if you look back a couple of weeks at the cyber pimp thing that was incredible. A whole lot of us could of been kick off for that tirade.

25. 
    Cami_A | Oct 30, 2001 03:09am | #29

    *Lisa, that's very discreet of you not to name names. Whatever's on tap will do as a little hair of the dog...

26. 
    Rich_ | Oct 30, 2001 03:13am | #30

    *Okay, headcheck! I didn't do it. I don't even recall the post.

27. 
    SHGLaw | Oct 30, 2001 03:45am | #31

    *It's very big of you to not name names. I'm not that big and I want to know. What a bullshit thing to do. But I will stand by Dano and let it go if that's what you want. But it's still wrong.SHG

28. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Oct 30, 2001 03:59am | #32

    *Um, Dano, we didn't threaten to ban Lisa. Calm down.Also, no one has any first amendment rights here. We aren't the government, and the amendments to the constitution only define the rights that our federal government can't take from a citizen or a state. I take down posts and threads on a regular basis, and I've never violated anyone's first amendment rights. I take posts down when I deem them to be detrimental to the board. That's my only agenda. I love you guys, but this ain't a democracy. The stuff that goes on that offends you does so largely because I don't have the time to sanitize the site. When you truly are offended, please email me at [email protected]. Include the url, and you make my life easier. I always check such complaints.Enjoy your smoke.Andy

29. 
    Luka_ | Oct 30, 2001 04:13am | #33

    *Big, not big. Whatever.Lisa is not about to be banned. She never was. I don't believe for a minute that Andy or anyone else at Taunton would have considered that. She said that someone had 'asked' that she be banned. I am as curious about who that was, as the next person. To be honest, I am more than a bit pissed about it. BUT, who it was, is no damn business of mine, nor of anyone else's here.Continuing this line can only lead to trouble, flames, and denigration of the quality of this forum. Lets drop it.

30. 
    Ralph_Wicklund | Oct 30, 2001 04:30am | #34

    *I too, would like to know who doesn't have the hair to stand behind their convictions or sensibilities.If all it takes is a whiner on the PC bandwagon to get a thread censored then we are all in trouble. I guess there are too many impressionable juveniles lurking or participating on this board who would go right out and join a subversive group just because someone happened to find and post a link.The whole terrorist/9-11 topic is first and last on the news every day. This is the Tavern, which was created so things like this could be brought up and discussed, or ignored. We might as well quit discussing anything because the topic MIGHT (or will) offend someone.Whoever you are, go bury your head in the sand, you'll be safe if you can limit your exposure to life.

31. 
    Cynthia_S | Oct 30, 2001 04:35am | #35

    *Lisa, As an admitted "Fed", I am also outraged that someone has given you a hard time. I did not see your post, but I can't imagine anything so offensive it had to be pulled. No one on this board has seemed shy about dealing with posts they found offensive before... butb they did it openly and signed their names! All I can say is, if any Federal Agent has time to worry about the postings in the Tavern, they are definitely under-assigned. Hang in there, and I vote for naming names.

32. 
    Phill_Giles | Oct 30, 2001 04:46am | #36

    *I'm now dying of curiosity; just in rough terms, what the heck was in this post/link that can arouse that sort of response ? (sorry, never got around to following the link and there were only a couple of posts there the one time I looked at it).

33. 
    Cloud_Hidden | Oct 30, 2001 05:42am | #37

    *This thread made me think of something I haven't thought about in a long time. In another lifetime I had a software company. Customers around the world. I'd usually be there late to get work done when it was quiet, and would answer phone and help out whomever called. Got to surprise a few Aussies who called at 3am and actually had someone talk to them. But I digress. What I always wondered is how I'd react if someone like the KKK called and wanted me to help them with our product. On the one hand, I'd help all my customers as best as I could. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to help the KKK, or Osama, or RK. Luckily it never happened, but imagine Yahoo with the group Lisa mentioned. Do you do your best for all customers, or do you try to dissociate from distasteful users of your product? On the horns of a dilemma...

34. 
    David_Doud | Oct 30, 2001 05:50am | #38

    *As near as I can remember, Lisa posted under the title 'is this for real?' a link to a Yahoo group (w/ 1 post and 4 members) recognizing Osama bin Laden as their leader, and inviting people to join up to further the cause - in my judgement; for real?, not - funny?, not - infantile?, certainly - upsetting?, apparently extremely to someone - will this post get this thread deleted? we'll see -

35. 
    Dave_Arbuckle | Oct 30, 2001 06:46am | #39

    *That's about right. I would bet that it is getting a lot more play now that it has been deleted than if it had been left.Dave

36. 
    Phill_Giles | Oct 30, 2001 08:46am | #40

    *I believe that the KKK is a legal entity in the US these days; so, so long as you're not asked to assist in something that you can clearly identify as being illegal, I also believe tha you're compelled to provide them the same level of service as any other customer.

37. 
    Luka_ | Oct 30, 2001 08:54am | #41

    *Yup, you give them space and service just like anyone else. And you watch.And when you see that space used for anything that can be construed in any way as promoting any sort of hate crime, you shut their asses down, report them to the authorities, and turn over a copy of the offense to the same authorities.

38. 
    Bob_Walker | Oct 30, 2001 01:29pm | #42

    *"I also believe tha you're compelled to provide them the same level of service as any other customer."I'm not sure, but I don't think so. For there to be a retriction on refusing service to an individual or group, they have to be a member of a "constitutionally protected" class: i.e., a group which the courts have been convinced that has been adversely discriminated against. (That's a pretty loose interpretation of some dim memories.)

39. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Oct 30, 2001 04:04pm | #43

    *Dano, upon re-reading my reply to you, I realize that I was harsh. Long day, deadlines, an evening spent with 15 screaming Cub Scouts? My day to be a jerk? Also, I meant to address the third paragraph to a general audience, and not specifically to you. You have my apology. Can I buy you a drink?Andy

40. 
    Phill_Giles | Oct 30, 2001 04:58pm | #44

    *I believe this is correct.

41. 
    Phill_Giles | Oct 30, 2001 05:03pm | #45

    *Constitutionally you could well be right, US protection of rights is not as strong as we're used to in other countries; however, this would be a contract dispute, and it could become a pyric victory at best.

42. 
    Lisa_Long | Oct 30, 2001 05:41pm | #46

    *Wanted you all to know - apparently someone hacked into my post on Sunday and put information into it pertaining to the spouse of someone on this board. That someone was understandably angry - and so the happenings of yesterday occured. We only figured it out last night.Andy is aware of the situation and whatever can be done will be done. At little terrorism right here in the Tavern, I guess.So keep your heads up and let's give others the benefit of the doubt around here, OK? Good.That is all. As you were. :-)

43. 
    Cloud_Hidden | Oct 30, 2001 06:57pm | #47

    *I'll declare you the winner of the Urban Legend contest and ten, count 'em, ten dog biscuits, if you spill the details.BTW, I may have remembered the group name wrong, but if I did remember it correctly, it's gone from Yahoo. FWIW

44. 
    Lisa_Long | Oct 30, 2001 07:09pm | #48

    *"I could tell you. But then I'd have to kill you." (Maverick - Top Gun)Oops - wrong thread. I know there's a movie line thread around here somewhere....

45. 
    Mike_Gabriel | Oct 30, 2001 07:21pm | #49

    *Really? That leads me to wondering what else may have gone unnoticed.I realize you don't want to, or can't elaborate, and that's fine, but can you say whether the offending party was attempting to put words in your mouth, or speaking for him/herself?

46. 
    cls | Oct 30, 2001 08:23pm | #50

    *A margarita for me, shaken, not stirred.

47. 
    cls | Oct 30, 2001 08:24pm | #51

    *I love those tomalives! Thanks to you and Jean for introducing me to them. They are one of my favorite things...

48. 
    Cloud_Hidden | Oct 30, 2001 08:40pm | #52

    *CLS, blended or on the rocks? With or without the salt? Aren't margarita nights the best?!?!? Gotta have the right salt.

49. 
    Pi | Oct 30, 2001 11:53pm | #53

    *Hey, C, I found a local store that always has them.....World Market in Goldengate.....Maybe there's one on the westside.......

50. 
    James_DuHamel | Oct 31, 2001 03:34pm | #54

    *Lisa,Hang in there. Jerks abound everywhere. Ya been around a LONG time, and I would like ya to stay around an even LONGER time.I didn't see anything about the post that could have remotely been outa place. People have got to start looking at the posts, who wrote them, the context of how they were written, and the history of the poster before any real idea of what was meant can be established. Way too many people here jump the gun way too many times.James DuHamel

51. 
    Gabe_Martel | Oct 31, 2001 11:41pm | #55

    *Here's the scoop.Lisa posted a harmless link from Yahoo.Someone hacked into it afterwards and inserted my wife's name which was also obtained illegally by this hacker, from the Yahoo files.Lisa didn't know about it so wasn't in a position to do anything about it.Because of other unrelated events, the link was sent to the authorities for action. I asked Andy to wipe it out immediately before any more damage was done, which he did.Everything was kept quiet until all of my wife's passwords were changed and as were mine.It's a lot like losing your wallet. It's not the money as much as all the other "inconveniences".Lisa took the heat, being the good sport that she is and kept things quiet.All is well now and we can all concentrate on "Ask Gabe".Gabe

52. 
    Danford_C._Jennings | Oct 31, 2001 11:57pm | #56

    *To Lisa, et. alHope you all don't mind my posting after I promised not to. In view of Gabe's explanation, I think it is warranted for me to do so, after all; it was I who started this thread.Firstly, I was upset when I first learned of this and did not intend to incite. Andy and I have corresponded, feel that a public apology from him was not needed. But, a public one from me is, yes we had our "drinks".Secondly, this has certainly been a good lesson for me in flying off the handle with out having all the information.Finally, I do apologize to those who may have been offended by my posts in this discussion and wish to publicly point out Lisa's "class" and integrity by taking this on the chin, so to speak. Thanks for the explanation, Gabe. I'm sure it was difficult for you to watch.Dano

53. 
    Pi | Nov 01, 2001 12:12am | #57

    *Thanks, Dano, Gabe and most of all, Lisa.......Explanations are always good and welcome....Any of you read "The Blue Nowhere"? This novel really explains hacking.....Scary......

54. 
    mulch52_ | Nov 01, 2001 02:00am | #58

    *I'm with Pi...thanks to Gabe, Dano & Lisa. Y'all are stand-up folks. One question though, Lisa: what's a Wooster? should I be ducking my head in embarrassment?

55. 
    Ron_Teti | Nov 01, 2001 03:58am | #59

    *Gabe, Lisa , Andy and the rest of the Gang, you guys are the bomb. Look at all the folks who came to Lisa aid (even though the facts werent known) but Im still very impressed with everyone.

56. 
    James_DuHamel | Nov 01, 2001 06:02am | #60

    *Wooster is a brand of paint brush. Lisa is a Master with the Wooster.James DuHamel

57. 
    Lisa_Long | Nov 01, 2001 07:58am | #61

    *Aw, shucks guys. You'd have done it for Gabe and his wife too.I just hope that whoever did the hacking finds a better hobby. Life is too short.Hey, Cloud - my dogs want to know if I can still have the dog biscuits???

58. 
    Cloud_Hidden | Nov 01, 2001 03:40pm | #62

    *Absolutely! I'll have my mom make a batch--she makes dog biscuits and takes them as "gifts" when she visits my brother or sister and their dogs. A baker's dozen for ya. And a handful for Gabe, too.

59. 
    Adele_ | Nov 01, 2001 07:31pm | #63

    *Hi Pi!The Blue Nowhere was a great read- kept me going til the very end. I have just 'discovered' Greg Iles- WOW! Anything and everything of his is excellent- highly recommend. You don't have to read them in order, each book is totally different from the others.

60. 
    Pi | Nov 01, 2001 11:01pm | #64

    *Hi, Adele!I'll have to look your recommendations.....How is Florida - Ohio is beautiful this time of year......

61. 
    Adele_ | Nov 02, 2001 06:13pm | #65

    *It finally cooled down a bit- high 70's this week. Waiting to see what this hurricane is going to do, from what I know right now, South FLA will bear the brunt of it, but I'll get the 'bands' of rain here in Orlando. Just another thing to think about, along with the threats to the nuclear power plants. LOL

2. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Nov 02, 2001 06:13pm | #66

   *
   ......What happened to your "Allah u Akbar" post? I was only kidding.
   b :)

   Dano