Just picked up a deck job that will require no screws or nail showing on the deck boards.I”ve seen some advertising about hidden nailing, has anybody had any experiance with them? whats the best way to go about this.? The decking is to be mahogany 5/4 X 6. thanks for any help.
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Nailman,
Good Post! I`m interested in learning a bit on this as well. I`ve been wanting to dry the method that incorporates a biscuit joiner to hide clips in between the boards. I`ve built a bunch of decks....all having visible fasteners.
I`d be interested to hear your verdict once you`ve completed the project.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
A guy I work with built a deck and used a track system, I think it was Shadowtrack brand, that was screwed to the joists. The deck boards were screwed to the track from underneath the deck. His wife placed the board and stood on them while he lay on his back under the deck and shot the screws.
The deck looks good and the boards seem firmly attached. He brags that without the holes on top the deck should last longer, be easier to sand if refinishing becomes necessary and will make replacing boards a snap. Dunno.
I will say that for a week he complained about sore shoulders and arms from using the drill while on his back. He is better now so no permanent damage I guess. I don't know how this compares to other systems but it seems simple enough and fairly robust.
The fastening system is called the" EB-TY Hidden Deck Fastening System". The fasteners are the same size of a #20 glue bisquit with a rib down the middle for automatic spacing. The deck boards are kerfed with a plate joiner or router at each joist intersection and secured with a 2 1/4" stainless steel screw. The EB-TY is made of high density polypropelene, resistant to U.V. rays and has a 100 year life span,hence the stainless steel screw. Basically, you end up with a deck that looks like t&g yet provides drainage and ventilation that is needed for any outdoor deck and porch flooring. The fastener free surface of an EB-TY'd deck is what people want,and the fact that all work is done on top of the deck, makes it a stand up choice for carpenters. There are 2 gapping sizes availible for gapping 3/32" and 1/4". Give http://www.EBTY.com or http://www.swansecure a shout for info.
Edited 4/22/2002 10:01:33 PM ET by GESMS
Thanks for the links but I was more interested in hearing from a few tradesmen that may have actually installed a deck using the system. I could have found that info inside the brochure/flyer at my local supply house. I think the idea of a forum like this is to encourage the exchange of ideas by people in the home building/improvement industry, not another avenue for industry to peddle its wares!
"The fastener free surface of an EB-TY'd deck is what people want,and the fact that all work is done on top of the deck, makes it a stand up choice for carpenters."
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
My advice may seem a little ominous.....be extremely careful with Mahogany decking! This material is unforgiving at best and can be a nightmare if not handled and installed properly. I live and work in southern CT and have seen a number of cambara mahogany decks fail (when I say fail I mean become unacceptably warped, cracked and splintered). I saw a high end builder rip one out that was three months old and chuck all the cambara in the dumpster. The last cambara deck I installed was first washed with Simple Green, dried, prefinished with Penofin on all sides and then cut and sealed with Anchor seal on all end cuts, predrilled (slightly oversized for screw shanks), countersunk, and screwed down from above with 2-1/2" stainless screws, two per board per joist. Immediately after installation of a large enough area of deck a second top coat of penofin was applied. I still have seen some cupping and some splitting among the decking and after one winter it needs to be recoated again with Penofin.
Believe me, I am not selling Penofin, stainless screws or cambara..just giving some friendly advice. I will never use a hidden system with Mahogany, the wood is too unstable, at least in my climate.
Good luck,
Bill
thanks bill,really appreciate the information and time.
Sorry Jaybird I meant to reply to Nailman411 and hit your reply button instead. Didn't mean to inundate you with the wares. However, contrary to what you think, I have installed at least 15 decks with EB-TY's. Most have been Ipe all different brands (Ironwood;Pua Lope;Thompson;Diamond) interestingly enough I just installed a Thompson pre kerfed deck last friday. The pre kerfed 5/4" Ipe is great. No need to slot the boards for the EB-TY's, just slide them in above the joist intersection. I'm going be installing a 5/4" mahogany tomorrow. I don't know what brand of mahogany it is yet. We're going to use the 1/4" EB-TY's rather than the 3/32" EB-TY's so we can get as much air flow as possible. The mahogany was sealed on all six sides and has been space stacked and drying for a few months now. The EB-TY slots will be sealed befor installation. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks, your input is greatly apreciated!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Mahogany installation went very well. Found out the homeowner had all six sides sealed with Cabots one year ago and had it space stacked in his barn. The mahogany was straight as you can get. The kerfs for the EB-TY's were all sealed with IRONWOODS version of anchorseal and the end cuts. The Bowwrench came in handy. We used the 1/4" EB-TY's in the installation and told the owner not to close in the underside with lattice to get as much air circulation as possible. We decided to wrap the 6"x6" piers and do a base moulding and some stop chamfers. Both the husband and wife loved the fact that there were no visible fasteners. The homeowner is going to powerwash the top and put an additional coat of penefin befor next week so we'll see how the mahogany holds up over time.
Stacked and stored for a year!! I`d apreciate a few more homeowners like that! It`s hard enough to convince most that the hardwood flooring needs to sit and aclimate for a couple weeks!
Gotta love the Bowrench!
Thanks for the input, much apreciated.
JayJ. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I'm not a contractor, but I've done a couple of decks, one screwed from the top, and one using Deckmaster deck brackets (see http://www.deckmaster.com) to screw from underneath.
A couple of comments. Deckmaster says you can do the screwing while kneeling on top of the deck. Sure it's possible, but it's sure awkward, and no where near as fast just screwing into the top of the board. It's also pretty easy to lose your balance, and with the screw gun in one hand you can end up taking a nasty tumble. I would estimate it doubled my time. I gave up and spent the day crouched under a deck 3 feet off the ground which was still awkward, but a lot faster than trying to screw while kneeling on top.
The other problem I had was straightening warped decking. When screwing from the top, I could usually pry the board straight and then screw it down myself. This was a definiate two person job using the deck brackets.
Overall I was very satisfied with the deck master system, and it looks really nice not having screwheads showing. I suspect that these comments would apply to most of these "screw from underneath systems"
One last comment. As the brackets weren't cheap, and you have the extra step of first nailing (it has to be hand nailed) the brackets to the joists, the cost, and time to do the deck was substantially higher than just screwing the decking from the top.
I used stainless deckmaster brackets and stainless screws to apply 5/4x6 pretreated 2 coats mahogany over pt 16"oc 5 years ago have received no negative feedback, customer loved it when done. Several comments though, the better preservatives seem to hang on the surface of this really dense wood and make the deck difficult to use until it gets baked by the sun. As soon as the brackets came and I tried a few and scared away any other potential customers in the neighborhood with my descriptive language about the difficulties in using them, I got out a copy of FHB and ordered an angle drill/screw gun. They are 3/3 drive and are made by Milwaukee or Souix, about $180, INDESPENSIBLE wouldn't do the job without one, paid for itself in a day. Finally the cost of all the stainless was just about even with the bill for the mahogany