As with many 50s vintage homes, our laundry area shares space with our gas furnace and gas water heater. I’m planning “freshen up” the laundry room with some new cabinets and counters, a fresh coat of paint and some new lighting. That will still leave the industrial looking furnace taking up around a third of the room like an 800 pound gorilla. Somehow, I don’t think my wife is really going to see the value in this project with the gray metal beast filling that corner. I don’t want to build walls around it because it would make the mechanicals inaccessible and take up limited floor space. I was thinking I might try to hang cloth around it, like a big curtain, but I’m afraid of causing problems with the equipment. If I leave 10 to 12 inches of space between the curtain and the furnace and water heater, will there be a fire hazard or possible problems with air supply, etc.????? (The mechanicals are all less than four years old, if that makes a difference.)
All thoughts would be appreciated. I expect to start the painting and cabinet installation in a couple of weeks. Realistically, I’ve got about a month before I’d be hanging any material.
Replies
Skip the curtains please!!!
Try some free standing room divider type panels. Check the rating tags for minumum clearances. But these don't apply to the curtains. Your insurance would be canceled over that!
Do not seal this area unless all units are fully sealed combustion type.
" Your insurance would be canceled over that!"
And your proof of that!
I have asked in this forum and several others when this type of comment has been brought up. And NO ONE has been able to showing anything in a policey that has any such wording. In fact I have had insuracne adjusters tell me that the policeies cover 'stupidity'.
Not that I am advocating doing any like this.
To the original poster a simple free standing room divider would be the easiest option.
Others include closing it off with lovered doors or closing it off with sealed doors and external combustion air supply. BTW, that is the way that mine are setup. A weatherstripped double door and then external ventalation.
If you go to http://www.codecheck.com and click on sample books look under mechanical and they give you some of the different ways that it can be done.
I can't directly prove it. I have been involved in many insurance cases in this trade. I can assure you when it gets down to the wire stupidity is usually not covered. Placing flammable materials deliberately closer than specs allow are not covered. If I as a professional do it in your house your insurance will cover it but you can bet they will come after me. And my insurance may cover it depending on the type I have.
But if you do it the chances it is covered will be slim to none based on what I have seen over the years.
Placing curtains like this as a construction detail may be iffy.
BUT... anytime your insurance company sees an unsafe construction detail they will tell you to correct it or you will be cancelled. I was speaking of a before-the-fact issue. That is a given. So I guess a basic knowledge of insurance practices proves my point without a direct source. Any insurance company that operated contrary to my description would be broke in a couple of years.
You bring up several different points.
First if the insurance company thinks that they can go after a 3 rd party to recover there losses they certainly will. That would include a pro, but in the worst case might even include the neighbor that said "why not".
You used the term "deliberate". Now on insurance policy covered an deliberate damage done by the insured. So when there are questionable case the insurance company will look at this and look at it CLOSELY.
And while it should not affect the actual payout there might be a big hassle factor and you might even have to sue them to get the insurance company pay off.
For example you have some one that is well off fanacially and in fact just had an addition put on the house and he is completely redoracting and his just about finishing up paint the interior. And he leaves some paint thinner in garage where the furnace and water heater are. He drives and and hits the can with the car and it spills and catches fire. They will probably pay, but will take a HARD look at it.
On the other hand some one that is out of work, the house is about to be foreclosed on, needs lots of work and the same painter thinner in the garage. He "clains" that he was going to paint the house, but at the time did not even own a brush much less the paint. The insuracne company probably won't pay off and require the insured to sue them. In fact the guy might even be charge with fraud if the insurance company thinks that it can be proven.
And the last thing. AFAIK all homes are "inspected" by the insuracne company before they will issure a policy. Generally that inspection is just to show that the house exists. But I think that in some areas and specially for older homes they do look at some things like electrial an maybe in CA for earth quake structural. Not to see if they are up to current code as much as they are an accident waiting to happen. And in those cases the won't insure in the first place.
Again I am not trying to suggest that any one do anything "questionable", but rather when ever I hear someone say "the sky is falling" and it clear blue sky outside I quickly turn them off.
The are many, many different reasons to discourage poor practices, but the affect insurance is not in the top 1000, at least not on my list.
I guess I am seeing a completely different scenario as far as home inspections go. I get called a lot to upgrade gas piping, gas equipment, plumbing, etc because the insurance company told them to get it fixed or get it dropped. Maybe in your area they don't do that. But in my area my oringinal comments about insurance are entirely valid.
How often does the insurance company inspect the property?
I haven't figured that out yet. I see it happening on renewals sometimes but have no idea what triggers that. New insurance policies always get inspected.
Curtains would be a bad idea. These appliances move a lot of air around -- particularly if they, like most old appliances, draw their combustion air from the room. You wouldn't want the curtain get sucked over to cover an appliance's air inlet, or to touch a hot appliance.
If you put walls around the appliances, pay attention to the air supply. Someplace in that laundry room, you'll probably find two vents. One will be near or in the floor, and the other will be in or near the ceiling. They go to the outside, or perhaps into uninhabited space that is vented to the outside. After you've installed the walls, those vents must be inside the enclosure, or you must make new ones which are equivalent.
If you're concerned about the wall thickness, consider making it with the studs turned sideways.
As others have noted: don't use curtains and make sure there is adequate combustion air for the furnace/boiler, water heater AND dryer.
For the furnace/boiler and water heater - add the btus of the 2 units and figure out if you hace 50 cubic feet per 1000 BTU. E.G a 60,000 BTU furnace and a 40,000 BTU water heater need 5,000 cubic feet of room space (say 20 x 32 x 8) OR the room needs vents into that much space- 1 sq in of free vent spacce per 1000 BTU = 1000 sq in of free vent space (which isn't 2 5x10 grills - it has to be free vent space.)
Then you have to figure out and add in the air requirements for the dryer.
Failure to provide adequate combustion air can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning and premature equipment failure.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
you don't want a curtain regardless of insurance requirements simply because it may be a hazard and your family lives there! i would build a wall with metal studs but sideways instead to take up less space then make a huge opening and install a drywall covered frame made of same sideways metal framing studs. if you use screws (but not drywall screws cause piffin will be upset) to secure wall and door and cover all screws with wood trim you can remove just door with a little hassle for service and the whole thing with a little more hassle for replacement of water heater etc. you may have to buy new drywall and repaint when you remove the whole wall but the wood trim and frame can be used over again and with a little carefull thought to layout you shouldn't even have any joints in the field to mud. be sure to address combustion air issue brought up elsewhere in this thread. make sure it has plenty of air from the outside. this probably violates code having to use a cordless drill to remove the door but the only hazard i see is it taking a few minutes to open the door to see the fire instead of a few seconds, if you suspect a fire turn off the gas and make sure a gas shutoff is close and accessible from outside of enclosure. if you can figure a way to hinge the door even though access is a squeeze until you remove the hinge pins so much the better.
mmolder,
Good idea! The 12"s between the curtain and the gas appliances would be a great place to store leftover fireworks, oil soaked rags and leaky lighter fluid containers.
Hey! Howsabout those darned hownowners insurance premiums! How did they ever get so high?
skipj
"Good idea! The 12"s between the curtain and the gas appliances would be a great place to store leftover fireworks, oil soaked rags and leaky lighter fluid containers."
I've got to say, that's really uncalled for. I posted the query here because I wanted to know before I did something that might be stupid. With an attitude like yours, mere amateurs like me will be reluctant to ask the question in the first place, and then where will they be?
To everybody else:
Thanks for the help. I'm in the process of checking on the clearance and venting issues (the installation manual is like a foreign language), but I'm somewhat hopeful. As far as I've been able to figure out so far, the clearance issues for combustibles is relatively small. In fact, they seem to be more concerned about clearance for maintenance accessibility than anything else. The manufacturer even says the furnace can be installed directly on a wood floor (it happens mine is not). I would think that if surface temperature were an issue, you would need to have some flame retardant product in between the wood floor and the equipment.
18" overhead clearance to combustibles on the flue, the boiler should have a plate stating clearances for servicing and cleaning,if you do build a wall put your door in front of the unit better yet consult with your service person they can give you all the info you need.
We completely forgot to mention the required clearances for the flues - if gas fired -6" minimun between single wall flue and any combustible (including drywall!!) and 1" between doble wall B-vent and any combustible.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
mmolder,
My apologies if I gave offense. Rereading my post, it is a bit harsh. I find that when I'm contemplating doing something more than usually boneheaded, I can count on my friends to rearrange my thinking with a sharp dose of sarcasm.
It was my intention to underscore that gas appliances+nearby curtain is a very dangerous combination, and to underscore that fact sharply. Not too sharply.
Again, my apologies.
skipj
Getting back to your original question...
This furnance. Is it possible to either move it overhead (attic) or underneath (crawlspace) the room?
The hot water heater. On the surface, a tankless model may have merit. Depending upon the flue size, makeup air arrangements, gas line locations, etc.
Such possibilities could provide that extra space you're looking for.
Thanks for the thought, but I didn't want to make it that big of a project. Even without the furnace and hot water heater, it would still be a basement laundry room. I'm just trying to brighten things up and the industrial gray of the mechanicals makes that kind of difficult.
If it's the industrial grey that bothers you, why not just paint the appliances? No walls, no curtains, and no loss of floor space.
Hiding Furnace
If you decide to conceal your equipment make sure you install a carbon monoxide detector, all gas appliances SHOULD have one!
Industrial curtains?
Has anyone considered industrial curtains used for welding application? I would think that would be as safe as building a wall and less confining for break / fix work.