My wife’s company just bid a job making tooling for a company called Polytorx Helix.
To quote their website:
“Helix, with its unique twist, is unlike any reinforcement and a substantial improvement over fibers, rebar or mesh. Contractors often want changes just to cut costs. With Helix, you get something better, stronger and crack resistant. And since Helix is merely added with the other ingredients of the concrete and easily and uniformly mixed in the truck, implementation is easy and jobs can be completed much faster.”
They also show a picture of 4000psi concrete that is actually flexing under 5000lbs of force without cracking or structurally failing. If you have ever bent rebar for concrete or battled a cracking slab then you will appreciate how much of a leap in concrete technology this represents.
Check out their website, it’s truly amazing!
http://www.polytorx.com/technical.html
DC
Replies
I remember seeing a similar picture in Wired Magazine a couple years ago - but the product was plastic fibers the put into the mix. It also wasn't yet commercially available from what I could tell.
This is metal and available. They make it easy too, by saying price out mesh or rebar, and there price is 20% less than that. Prety slick!
Only thing I wonder about is the possibility of having fiber ends sticking out. Also, if using for a countertop, how would these work when you go to polish the surface?
This was the email I got back - same day response!:
My email:
I just saw your website, and was very impressed with your product.
I was wondering about a particular application, if you had worked with it before: Concrete countertops?
Usually there is some ghosting of the underlying rebar or mesh in these applications, which would make your product more appealing.
On the other hand, there is usually some surface polishing to reveal the aggregate underneath, which would of course expose the steel underneath the coatings.
Anything you can add to those thoughts?
Helix reply:
This would be an appropriate application for Helix. The surface polishing would not be an issue.
Typical dosage for a countertop would be 30 lbs/cubic yard. We have a minimum order of (1) pallet which would be 1620 lbs at a cost approximately $5,000.00.
Should you be interested, please forward additional information about your company and we will contact you to discuss moving forward with a business partnership.
Cordially,
Kate Yost
Polytorx, LLC
Helix Steel
xxPaulCPxx
That's funny, I just emailed them requesting a sample to try in a concrete countertop! They haven't responded to me yet but I dropped my wife's name and company hoping to gain some clout with them. I also mentioned the aspect of controlling ghosting and how I wanted to make a sample to see what the helixes looked like after polishing.
Hopefully they don't confuse the two of us.
Where are you located? Maybe we can run some experiments together.
DC
I'm all for experiments - but I'm up to my ears in other projects now!
I think what is needed is for someone in Michigan to stop by their office and ask for handfull to dump into a casting tray, say just a 1" deep 12"x12". Then you can play around with that to see what happens.
I was wondering about twisting SS square stock and chopping that up. No coatings to worry about then, but would still retain the twisting qualities they advertize.
xxPaulCPxx
Well, I finally heard back from Polytorx but my response was much more discouraging than yours:
While countertops would be a suitable application for Helix, we do not distribute samples.
Our business model is designed to create partnerships with large General Contractors and Concrete Contractors around the country providing them exclusivity and therefore a competitive advantage in their market.
Because of this, we thank you for your interest in Helix, but we are not interested in pursuing a partnership at this time.
Coridally,
Kate Yost
Polytorx, LLC
Helix Steel
Kinda sounds like they don't want anyone doing any independent strength testing.
DanH
I told them exactly who I am and what my intentions are.... simply that I thought the Helixes could look interesting as they showed through a polished concrete countertop. I think they were turned off more by my request for free samples and the fact that I am a small general contractor, instead of a large general contractor like they are fishing for.
It used to be that way with Corian too.
DC
careful in countertops...
I think it'd be a bust as a 100% mix concrete countertop additive.
If you polished the slab, you'd expose some of the reinforcement, and the polishing would remove the electrogalvanized coating, exposing raw steel.
Rust. Discoloration. You could end up with corrosion discoloration from steel-concrete reactions way down the road even if a bulletproof epoxy film finish was used.
I cast inverted, if I were using this product I'd put down a 1/2" layer of non-Helix concrete in the form, then add Helix to the remainder of the batch and complete the pour with Helix-crete. For a 2" thick slab you'd have Helix in the bottom 1-1/2", and clean 'crete in the top 1/2" inch.
For typical slabs I don't se this (Helix) as an advantage. But if casting structural pieces, it could work.
Just my opinion, not fact.
Quoting Mongo: "Rust. Discoloration. You could end up with corrosion discoloration from steel-concrete reactions way down the road even if a bulletproof epoxy film finish was used."
You say that as if you thought I wouldn't want the rust and discoloration. In fact, I really like the look of metal in slabs in all the different forms. Sure, it would be neat if the Helixes were SS or brass but I have seen some cool tops with exposed non-galv items which turned out really cool. To me, it runs in line with the sweet rust and other mineral stains that are exposed in natural stone tops. But it sounds like we may never know for sure what a polished helix top will look like if the company won't sell their product in a smaller quantity.
DC
I hadn't seen any references to anyone wanting rust, so you are correct, I was pointing it out as a potential negative. No worries though. I'm just trying to add to the conversation.
Any metal fabrication shops in your area? Or do you know anyone with a metal lathe? They have metal shavings available for free by the box. Or maybe a few dollars for a grocery bag full. Only issue (unless it's desired) is that the shavings may have a slight oil coating on them due to the machining process. It's easily removed.
While they will typically not add anything structural, if it's the artistic look you're going for, they work quite nicely.
I'll sometimes give them an acid wash to roughen or etch the metal's surface, it can give a better bond with the concrete.
Pretty cool. I like their home page, "Which part don't you believe?"
scott
I think the hardest part to believe is their overall claim that it is FASTER+BETTER+CHEAPER.
These days it is rare to hear anyone claiming all three of those things....especially concerning a product that is entirely MADE IN AMERICA.
And, adding to their USA made dedication, they will soon be having their tooling made in USA too. The reason they contacted my wife's company was to get away from the italian manufacturer that they were getting their tooling from.
DC
I worked with some stainless small helical springs in concrete
About 1982, I worked with stainless steel helixes as concrete reinforcement on a concrete pavement, as an experimental application. They were about 2-inches long, six sided wire, with about 8 turns, on a 1/4-inch diameter.
We had huge problems with them interlocking in the shipping drums, not unwinding from each otherin the drum during agitation and coming out in clumps.
We abandoned the test section, after two days, and the manufacturer went bankrupt the next year.
For some silly reason, a sales pitch that slick sets off my "BS alarm."
Of course, 'presentation' has nothing to do with 'fact,' so I'd look for the opinion of the Portland Cement Association of these claims. I'd also want a look at the "University of Michigan" data.
I've often wondered why rebar wasn't galvanized .... this product is. The mystery deepens.
The picture is pretty, but that is NOT how you do a compression test. The '4000psi' rating refers to compressive strength, while the load is applying a tensile load to the material.
This may not be snake oil, but J'm putting my gaiters on just to be safe.