Hiker, In another thread I mentioned that I had learned something from a couple of prospective customers just recently
in 3 words– here is what I learned
Stephen, shut up!
Funny– i think there is a book out there” Shut up and sell!”-something like that-maybe it covers the same thing.
and it’s a lesson, I imagine mike smith and a lot of people already know intuitively—-
here is the back story–as briefly as I can.
In person– I am rather quiet–not sociable at all. An ideal weekend would be one where I didn’t even leave the house. At social gatherings”which I avoid like the plague”– I would preferr to sit in a corner,un-noticed,and simply watch what’s going on– I have no interest or ability to meet and greet others.
30 years ago when I was 16- I was at my girlfriends house( then girlfriend,NOW wife of 25 years)—-
girlfriend says” one of my dads army buddies is coming to visit— I want you to be carefull around Duke. He is a successfull developer in Maryland–but some how he knows everything about everybody”
well-sure enough—— eventually duke meets me—-and whithin 5 minutes he knows all. He knows everything about my family going back 3 generations, he knows how much spare change i have rolling around in my jeans, I mean- he knows EVERYTHING–and I know nothing about him.
He has this gift- i doubt he said more than 20 words to me– but somehow it must be the right 20 words– because YOU tell him EVERYTHING.- It’s incredible.
Ok -that was 30 years ago—and untill about a month ago– i had never met anybody like him.
THEN- i met these 2 prospective customers–SAME thing!
typically—- for my career- I work in a confined area–just a few blocks from my home. I usually know the customers-or they know my family,or my wife or a previous customer-some kind of personal contact. the customers are typically–a policeman, a fireman, a teacher, a nurse,a insurance salesman– we are all at about the same economic level—-and usually are kids go to the same schools etc.
These 2 guys–were different–considerably above my econmic strata.
In the first guys instance- I recognized early in the “conversation””hey-this guy is just like Duke– and I haven’t thought about duke in over 20 years”
in the second guys case- I didn’t realize what was going on untill AFTER it was over.
Typically- i walk a customer around the house-we discuss the roof, I explain how and why we do things, how the landscaping will be protected etc.– essentially I am in controll of the situation
THESE guys?- very different
After the fact I realize——- they were only humoring me with the discussion about the roof- that was just to make ME feel comfortable.
The real “interview’– which NONE of my typical customers actually do–came after the “walk around”
they brought me inside, sat me down in the rooms THEY were comfortable and most “in controll” in—and very efficiently–got me to spill all.
now– when I am comfortable- I am comfortable saying next to nothing— but when I am nervous–and having no social skills— i chatter too much.
20/20 hind sight- I realize I gave the prospects information which would have been readily accepted or even overlooked by my usual customer—– but was a clue to pricing structure to THESE guys
Both of these guys are/were very successfull business men—one owns a company that makes rotational molding equipment and his company sells world wide—- believe me– you own many products made on this guys equipment.
both guys—–are skilled at interviewing and sizing people up—–at a level lightyears beyond what a fireman or a nurse can handle
I would love to come back and talk about this some more– but I gotta get the dogs walke here before it pours down rain—- but in the meantime– here is an example
If typical customer asks” Steve– what do you do in the winter?”- the actual answer is not a problem
but THESE guys– the actual answer gives them a clue—to start digging
If i tell a customer(factually)–that we do very little production between mid november-and late March- my typical customer assumes something VERY different from what THESE guys assume. THEY are rapidly doing a profit calculation to determine WHAT makes that period of in-activity possible
I really DO have to run now- but basically– I am re-assessing how i talk with customers–especially above a certain economic strata—because I think I am giving away too much info. My typical customer is concentrating on the project—THESE guys are concentrating on ME.
BTW- I sold one—–and as already related– did not close with the other.
stephen
Replies
Interesting conveyance Stephen.
I'm not about to claim that I've got any special interviewing talents but after interviewing thousands of framing applicants, I learned to do the same thing as your clients. I'd ask seemingly innocous questions and then draw conclusions from the answers.....or non-answers. Either way, they got you.
The "problem" isn't that you are talking too much. The real "problem" is that the interviewer has their agenda and is smart enough to ask the right questions till they get to the bottom of the issue. Then, they make a decision based on THEIR NEEDS, not yours.
During my years of interviewing framers, I'd often run into the various "types" of personalities: yappy, silent, braggerts, novices, skilled, unskilled, etc. The yappers would sometimes drive me nuts but I'd patiently let them speak while taking notes, then go back to the questions that were important to me. No matter how hard they tried to avoid my questions, I'd swing back and get the answer.
Occasionally, I'd run into the stonewall type of guy that simply wouldn't reveal anything. Maybe it was a mistake but I never hired any of those types.
blue,
I have a couple of younger--"helper caliber" guys working with me---but I needed someone with more experience--- tried out a few a week ago. 2 of them talked a good talk--enough for me to try them for a day---the 1 I kept---said next to nothing---and still says next to nothing--but he is amazingly productive------and- I think he does neater cleaner work than I do--AND he is more efficient I's driving me crazy trying to figure out"what is HIS baggage"-- what's the unseen problem? He tells me-- he is into restoring classic cars--he only wants to work 3-4 days a week tops-- when rain days come he is HAPPY staying home working on his automotive projects( that's his real gig)------so he is happy working 3 days a week with me,more or less---and restoring cars 4 days a week for himself-----other contractors would want him to work dawn to dusk 6-7 days a week.
stephen
I don't find that unusual at all for construction guys. I met many, many, many guys in construction that were happy making their bills. If they could make enough to survive in three days a week, they would work three days. Their lifestyles would either be poor or they had spouses that subsidized them. Either way, they were only going to work three days.
I've met guys living in their cars that only wanted to work one day. One of the "tricks" I learned early on in my framing business was to keep the hourly rate low on guys like that. It was healthier for them to make $10 per hour and work forty hours than for me to pay them $20 per hour because they'd only work 20 hours and have more drinking time and energy.
And then, when you think about it...if your guy is engaging in a healty lifestyle outside of his worktime with you, can you blame him? Why should he devote so much time to roofing or framing if he doesn't have too? We all have our priorities and maybe he just doesn't want or need a big screen tv.
I forgot to mention: stop worrying about the baggage and count your blessings LOL. It sounds like you found a keeper.
Oh, I DO count my blessings--- It's a fantastic arrangement for me and I really respect that he has this OTHER thing going. He only roofs to put food on the table while he restores cars--that's HIS intrestwell- I only roof to pay my sons tuition, LOL- that's MY intrestStephen
Better illustration of
Stephen,shut up. about 7 years ago- I did a roof repair for a customer--replaced a few missing,damaged slates-and a small rubber roof repair.customer mentioned that he had had another roofer who did slate repairs for him for years---untill the roofer mentioned that he had a son attending Princeton. The customer told me" If he can afford to send his kid to Princeton--he is chargeing me to much.Interesting--- guy had no problem with the work-or the pricing-UNTILL he found out what college the roofers son went to-THEN suddenly he thinks he is being gouged? That stuck with me-- because at the time--a young man my family knew quite well--had just started at Columbia-- similar caliber schools?--- the kid at columbia------was the oldest of 7 kids---father is a mail man-mother a stay at home mom. He was able to go to Columbia-- because he happened to be the Reigning Ohio DII Cross country champ---and I think also a 2 time Ohio #,000 meters Track champ----so Columbia wanted him to run XC and Track. Kid is smart--and got an Ivy league academic scholarship----but really-they wanted him to run( he is now an engineer) there are all sorts of ways the roofers kid---could have got to Princeton--- but the customer could only see" he must be overcharging me-to pay that tuition"2 different people-will view the same situation or information---differently based on their experience in MY neighborhood--if a customer asks me-" what do you do in the winter?"- When my kids were small I would say" I spend a lot of time crawling on the floor playing with my sons'- when my sons were older I said" I spend a lot of time coaching basketball"---and since the customers knew you-and where you lived--- they didn't feel you were living high on the hog and gouging them But customers from a different economic strata----might interpret things differently If I mentioned I spent november through march mostly playing with a new Labrador Retriever puppy. I do know-- that duke-and those 2 other guys--are pretty much the only 3 people I have met-- that had that ability to really get me to talk like that---- I don't have enough experience with customers at that level-- but in the future I will be MUCH more aware of the potential.stephen
Maybe it's just me, but I'm always leery about talking about personal things with my clients for the exact reason that you bring up. I never want to give the impression that I'm making too much money. It causes buyers remorse and nothing good can come from it.
So, to counter things when I do talk, I'm normally quite keen about adding tidbits which temper the picture of wealth such as "My daughter attended Kalamzoo College....thank goodness she earned her way into that school with some hefty scholarships because I would never be able to afford that tuition" (true).
Human nature is what it is and some people just want to be the big dog or let others think they are the big dog. That's not me. I don't get any satisfaction from having more than others or having them think I have more than them. Therefore, I normally try to leave an impression that I'm not rich, not poor, but have enough to do a quality job and survive to honor the warranty.
LOL....some of that is true.
i am trying to get in with a restoration and remodeling company as an estimator. it is getting to hard on the body to continue doing the labor end.i find many of the comments here very interesting.i am now looking forward even more to getting with the customers and finding out who is interviewing who.by the way jim are you the one who just gave kazoo college a million bucksi have daughter who is in 4th year wmu after 3 years at kvcc. think she is going for a pro student.
LoL, sorry, I haven't earned that million yet so I couldn't possibly have given it away.
My Daughter enjoyed her years at Kalamazoo. She played three years on their Soccer team and each year they did well, getting into the NCAA tourney.
Remember, no one ever listened their way our of a job.
Runnerguy
I think the real question is, do you want to work for people who are always looking for an edge or advantage of some kind?
I think some "successful" people are competitive by their very nature. They have learned to direct it into places where it has brought them stature and money.
But, can they turn it off? Are they that way all the time? I think a lot of them can't.
I can see how during the interview they would want to know you quickly and it would be in their interest to get to know you.
But, after that i would want someone to trust me and not keep competing with me.
So at a certain point you have to let them know you are trustworthy and they need to step out of the way so you can do your job.
My point is just because they have more money doesn't mean they will be good to work for.
Will Rogers
popawheelie,
I think you are on to something there--- in my regular customer base--we have a lot of common background. typically-we belong to the same parish-our kids went to the same gradeschool--and then on to one of 3 highschools-we keep tabs on each other------and keep up with whose kids went to which college etc----all more or less rooting for each other----because of that shared early bond of paying catholic school tuition together BUT-- out of that little bubble---- that sort of curiousity about each others kids--- can turn into a pizzing match" who is going to the better school,etc." pretty quickly. I am just fascinated though-that these 3 people had such an ability to find out so much about me--in so few words.-- And I wonder if that says more about THEIR skill in that regaurd-- or in my ineptness in that situation. I am enjoying your will rogers tag line I read-a LOT--- but I fear I primarily fall in the " peeing on electric fence "category.
I would LIKE to think I learn primarily through observation-- but I am afraid I often an unable to tell what is REALLY going on. I will often comment on something I saw-- and my wife has to explain---" look dummy-here is what was really happening!"
Once we were on our way somewhere and my wifes cel phone rang---- she answered and a friend mentioned that she wasn't going to make it to the party we were headed to because her husband had been sick since Thursday and she was going to stay home and take care of him.- Gee- that's too bad I thought------- but my wife had about 5 OTHER possible scenarios as to what was REALLY going on---based on which couples were going to be at the party-who was mad at who-whose daughter was breaking up with whose son and so forth. After 46 years- I am slowly becoming aware that there is this whole other dimension to human activity that has been going on all around me--and yet invisible and un-noticed by myself.stephen
You sound a lot like me. But I don't know if that is necessarily a bad thing.
I try to keep things simple and straightforward.
Ever think you just might be to honest?
I mean if people want to hide their motives and play games with who's doing what and who is going to such and such a party, that's their business.
I just don't get into it. I do care about others feeling but they need to be above board with me. Otherwise it gets petty pretty quickly and can be a terrific waste of time.
I have gotten better about opening my mouth when I "think" someone has ulterior motives. They might or they might not, but talking about it just gets me in trouble. After all, I'm make value judgments about something that is unsubstantiated. I might be way off.
I think people can make generalized assumptions about different kinds of people in different kinds of situations, but they are generalizations. They are just statistical tendencies grouped to try and make sense of what people do.
But when it comes down to specific people you know it is better not to make assumptions. Give people grace.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
stephen....
i've been on the other end of the interview.. sometimes i pass..... sometimes i fail
i think i'm selling relationships...
some people just want a contractorMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"... my wife had about 5 OTHER possible scenarios..."it's OK to be aware of the possibilities, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar - and even if it isn't, often it's better to treat it like it is, take things at face value and move on with life under that assumption - "there's enough for everyone"
Stephen,
Thanks for the tale about your experience. It has taken me some time to get through much of what has been discussed.
I had the benefit of working with one of the best client managers in our engineering firm when I got out of school. I often tagged along with him to meet clients and discuss ongoing projects. He rarely talked about work. He knew everything going on with our clients personal and professional lives. He did not use this knowledge in a manipulative manner. He sincerely was interested in these folks and loved knowing all about them. He did this with everyone he encountered.
It took me a while to figure out, but he had established deeper relationships with these folks because it was not all about business. I realized that most folks really enjoy talking about the things they are passionate about and it therefore you can really get to know someone pretty quickly when you know how to find these things out.
I have never gained that skill to that extent, but when I do interact with clients, I do try to establish the relationship. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. As Mike so eloquently pointed out "Some folks are just looking for a contractor".
I noticed some of the tone of the discussion was that these folks were trying to be manipulative. They may have, but I doubt it. I have been blessed to meet some of these "successful people" and I believe they are genuinely interested in knowing about the person they are talking with. They utilize this info to decide how they wish to proceed with the person. I frankly believe that I waste alot of time meeting folks I really do not care to have a relationship with and need to focus on getting to the ones I do wish to have a relationship with.
The "successful people" I have met in the past have blessed me and family in many ways. For me, it is all about relationships. A former boss, a successful man who owned a pipeline construction company replied to my question about how to become successful-"Don't work for a$$holes-they are never worth it"
Thanks for sharing.
Bruce
-"Don't work for a$$holes-they are never worth it"
I think rez may have an award waiting for you!
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Congratulations!
Hiker receives the BT 'Truth in Print' Award.
Saaalute!View Image
Thank you rez for this prestigious award. As I mentioned in my post, it was not my original idea, but a lesson given to me from a former boss. I would like to thank Skip for the great wisdom.
hiker,
I don't feel that any of the three guys was manipulative either. Rather- they had a natural gift or a learned skill that I lack.As I mentioned-- in person I am-----taciturn?--- and yet-they had me chattering like a teenage girl with a new cel phone.The fellow I called Duke- that I met when I was 16? He seved with my father-in law in the Pacific theater in WWII-- the whole unit went to an annual reunion virtually every year afterwards--well into the 1980's when they started dieing off. My Father-in Law told me---that nobody ever suspected that Duke would do as well as he did after the army---but he did well as a developer kind of guy he is?---my mother in law passed away 6 weeks before my wife and I actually married--my Father-in law- retired shortly after that----and a couple years later--came down with cancerFather-in Law was a union Carp. his whole life-- when Father-in Law came down with Cancer---Duke built a barn behind his( Dukes') house in Maryland and stuffed it full of woodworking machinery-- Like Norm Abrahms New yankee workshop---and brought my Father-in law out to Maryland and told him--stay here as long as you want-or as short as you want---do as much as you want or as little as you wantso---for the last couple years of his life my father in law would spend 6-8 weeks their-come home for a few weeks- go back for 2-3 months--and back and forth. the other 2 guys----- the one I actually sold-- I know more about-- he was referred by a previous customer who is also his employee-- his oldest,longest lasting employee---and that employee has been handing my name out for 8-9 years-just a really great guy. Met his son as well--- and he seems like a younger version of the dad-- developing the same interesting abilityThe other guy--who I didn't sell--who ruled me out on price--- seems like a great guy as well--- but I just don't know as much about him . I feel the experince of the meeting gives me a lot to think about and learn-- probabbly what I learn is more valuable than the money I would have made from the one project I didn't closeStephen
Imagine where we would be if we had those skills?
Better not waste too much time going there.
I must say you are the very first construction type person I have ever seen use the word "taciturn". Very nice. Now I need to get a word of the day calendar.
Bruce
Edited 4/20/2009 3:51 pm by Hiker
welllllll,
I wouldn't want it to get around- might spoil my macho-but -dumb roofer street cred----
but I worked in the public library system from '78-'82 when I was a student.
actually- I HAVE a word of the day calendar---- but I didn't get Taciturn from it my calendar is of forgotten,archaic english todays word is "drear" : dismal,gloomy,distrustfull: from anglo saxon "dreorig", sorrowfull, Icelandic "dreyrigr", gory In those days I wanted to be librarian--- but I wanted to get married and raise a family even more-- and didn't think a librarians salary would provide for my potential kids the way I wanted to.............
stephenEdited 4/20/2009 5:36 pm ET by Hazlett
Edited 4/20/2009 5:37 pm ET by Hazlett
For a period of time, I had ambitions of being a librarian. Cool.
Now it takes a real man to woo a woman citing the original text of Beowulf. Who knew you were a man of many talents?
My Observations
I guess I think instead of shutting up, you need to start getting some respect for others careers. I erased my response yesterday but its about the same today . Youre a cool guy so I dont want to come off radical. But instead of shutting up , "think' about where these people have been. Im very impressed by knowledge of just about any type . I know a man that works harder than any man I know and yes hes successful. One of the few self made multi millonares I know . He plays the work game 24/7. Hes a realator . One other realator said to another one that while they were sleeping this guy was working his mind. Almost impossible to get a jump on him. I talked to the guy as we work some together . He sells me some real estate . He told me about another agent that had a knack for finding an arse for every seat . He respects that ability of another in his business.
Im impressed by doctors and nurses with their day to day talents to help others. Some have worked very hard and I thnk they are amazing .
Im impressed by how Kobe Bryant has improved since him being MVP last year of the NBA. The short of it is here is a guy that went from high school to the pros and has became a dominant player in the NBA. Then championships of world champion teams although he was the second player on the team. Now hes number #1 on the team of course. He won a gold medal last year . He came back with what he learned about winning that gold medal and hes using it to make his team a full group of participants . Hes making people around him better . They are much better than last year and they are the same group of men . They are all better players through him becuase hes their leader. Right now hes working on a championship . Its amazing to me how hes doing it . You wanna double him? He will shoot a pass to who you left and hes got the whole team doing it so theres no hot dogging on that team. If his team goes stale and gets behind then he can as he calls it ,"go off any time he wants to". Thats normally Kobe time for a 10 point run. One of the things that Ive tried to mentor off him is that he works on somthing every year he didnt possess the year before whether its a spin move or leading a team to the championships .
People that are successful selling are very good at reading people like a phone book. They practice that every day and so they are trained professionals at reading "off " people . Ive met several business people that owned their business that are professionals at handling people . After all most of them had to group up people around them to advance in their success. I respect a lot of different types of people and those are one group.
Everyone that practices their job seriously for a number of years is gonna come out with some talents they didnt have before . The smart and energetic ones might have no bounds.
Tim
Tim,
you can help me learn- if you point out to me what I said in this thread that would give anybody the idea I didn't have tons of respect for the 3 guys i mentioned-- in fact---- my respect for their ability-----the skill they have and that I lack--is pretty much the point of the whole thread all 3 guys-- had an ability to get a fairly close mouthed individual to really open up and talk---- i have thought a lot about the guy that I didn't sell a roof to--and I wish I had a video of the encounter because 20/20 hindsight I can see that he carefully orchestrated the entire thing-- choice of room to talk in, our positions within the room etc.- he knew what he was doing every step of the way-----and I suppose his most valuable skill-- was sizing up individuals in a way that my typical customer base doesn't acquire policemen,firemen,nurses,teachers, computer programers etc.- may THINK they handle people well-- but these three guys clearly operate on a different plane wanna know something?- they guy I have learned the most from locally- the guy who inspires me the most?-- owns a grocery store go to your local piggly wiggly--what's a can of tomato soup cost? 90 Cents? go to HIS market----- you will pay maybe $4-----and when you leave you will be convinced you just bought the greatest can of tomato soup EVER----and the same ratio for wine, cheese, beer, bakery, meats,produce etc. I learn MUCH more observing other industries than my own industry. If I gave the slightest impression that i didn't highly respect the skill those 3 guys have- I certainley apologise the fact remains however- that they easily got me to talk and reveal things- I would on the whole be better off not talking about with customers. Mentally- i have a few areas of conversation I am going to be aware of---and will walk right around and past those areas in future "interviews"---such as " what do you do in the winter?" Best wishes,
stephen
"i have thought a lot about the guy that I didn't sell a roof to"well, look at it another way - for all his savvy, it appears that he will be retaining another contractor - what's the likelyhood that this other contractor will have the experience of your operation and do a 'Hazlett' quality job for less money? who's the chump here?not to say you couldn't have managed the interview differently, and possibly to better effect - certainly it's worth contemplating - how will it change your opinion of this individual if you go by and observe he has 'Low-bob's roofing hackers' working on his house? - - eh - there's no accounting the 'human condition' - "there's enough for everyone"
David-- that's a good question. My pretty good opinion of him won't change at all
He tells me flat out that he ruled me out based on price( but perhaps he is just sparing my feelings and he ruled me out on some other issue!)
I take him at his word ,however--- and assume that he ruled me out on price-- that's perfectly fair. we all have various priorities and various committments. I typically do quite well with customers of rather modest means- who have also lived in their house for years and intend to live in their house for years. Perhaps they have had inconvienent roof problems in the past-and want them solved now. they are willing to pay a little more for that confidence factor Yesterday however I wrote a proposal for a prospective customer- fairly affluent-- but he also has several kids in college and at least one in a private highschool--- Strong referall from mutual friends AND the parents of one of last years employees---- so all things being equal I am sure yesterdays prospect would preferr to have me do the roof-------- but his priorites are logically on his kids education-- my price might not be feasible for him THIS guy-- the guy who interviewed me- well he has HIS prioroities also. Many people would spend more on a kitchen than I am willing to spend-- others spend more on cars-- or music--or copper spounting--we all have prioroties.
THIS guy--retired a few years ago---sold his business- presumably re-invested the proceeds at the top of the market-0 he also owns another home out of state---- he has competing intrests and concerns--- I can't hold anything against him at all I am really and truly greatfull for the opportunity to have learned a few things and to have some things to think over from the "interview" experinece-- in the future I will be more aware of what is going on--IN THE MOMENT--and there are some topics I will walk right around. As far as whoever ends up doing his roof------ in 3-4 weeks I will be doing a roof a few minutes away--but despite the close proximity I won't check up on his roof-- because to do so would require driving down a private road-and then down a long private drive----- very awkward to snoop on the guy, LOL
stephen
but perhaps he is just sparing my feelings and he ruled me out on some other issue!)
That was my thought too.
As far as handling the situation, the best approach I've found is asking an open ended question along with your answer. You are then tossing the speaking ball back into the potential client's court.
For instance:
Client: So your son goes to college?
Hazlett: Yes he attends Breaktime University. What is your alma matter? (what did you study, where do your kids go, what are they studying, etc.)
I think the premise of "Shut Up and Sell" was not to be silent, but to listen, and to get the client to open up. Then don't keep babbling just to puff up your ego, or because you are afraid of asking for the work.
I don't know how I'd handle the "What do you do all winter" question, but if the person has a sense of humor I might say, "As little as possible". But then I might describe tool maintenance, education on new products, scheduling the next year, costing the previous years jobs so you know your bids are accurate, and down time with your family, because of the schedule you keep during the warm months. What do you do with your down time Mr Client?
Bowz
I see you've been talking to Mrs Scrapr!
Answer a question with a question.
Whenever she has a hard question to answer...it's is usually something like...
Why do you ask?
Answer a question with a question.
Close but not quite. Answer their question, but in the same breath ask your own question. Responding only with a question tends to frustrate your counterpart. Not what I want to do in a selling situation, unless the other party is being butthead.
Bowz
I think its me thats getting a poor point across .
All Im saying is they do it for a living ad they are good at it . I dont believe a teacher is in it for that reward at all. Yes a teacher could be but normaly they are not on the same plane . Money has to count every day and thats not a teachers mind set . Nothing against teachers . When we put teachers on a standard like we are to complete work or dont get paid then mebbe it might change . Tell a teacher they have to hit a 90 degree standard every single day with their students ot pack up and leave . You probably would get that type of teacher but not the way it is now .
Ive done this business for over 40 years . Im certain if I spent some time working with you I would be in college . I just couldnt do the work right now you do. If any thing IM saying I expect those people to be good at it just like I would expect you to not get stumped on any roof you walked on. We do pretty good in this BT community with knowledge tossing it back and forth . Even opinions , lol. If theres one single thing thats special I possess its the knowledge Ive gained from the trails Ive been riding on. It goes on every day that I seem to think or learn somthing . Im working two hands right now as Im trying to rehab my knees and Im not doing so well. The guys are young . I seem to lecture all day long . Im no different than a bunch here already but would not you expect me to be able to do it ? Theres still several here Id like to take classes from as well. Id expect them to be able to hold a clinic just as I would you .!
Tim