Replies

1. 
   Mongo | Mar 30, 2002 09:12am | #1

   Use any sized straight bit with a collar added ot the router 's base. Since the collar adds 1/8th inch to the radius of the "bit", make your jig/template with 3/4" radii in the corners (add 1/8th inch to all edges of the size of the hinge). 5/8th + 1/8th for the collar equals a 3/4" radius on the jig. Meaning, if you want the finished hinge mortise to be 1.5" by 3", make your jig cutout 1-5/8ths" by 3-1/4" with the corners having a 3/4" radius.

   That is, assuming your collar adds 1/8th inch to the radius of the bit, which is what my PC set does. The margin varies based upon collar size.

   Gosh, I hope that makes sense to you. After reading it, I'm even confused...

1. 
   brianspages | Mar 30, 2002 10:31am | #2

   i use a stanley steel hinge mortising template, so my jig corners are always square. the router bit diameter always determines the corner radius (ie. a 1/2" diameter straight bit delivers a 1/4" radius corner and a 1 1/4" diameter bit would deliver a 5/8" radius corner). i need a collar for a 1 1/4" straight bit.

   brian

   View Image View Image View Image

1. 
   user-409932 | Mar 30, 2002 05:05pm | #3

   Anyone have a good source for oversized collars? I find myself hampered by not being able to replicate 5/8" radius hinges. Have Bosch hanging kit, etc., but all suppliers in my necko' woods use 5/8 radii. Been waitng 5 days on current job for two new doors (sent wrong swing twice!), and I'm to the point where it'd be cheaper to hang em myself rather than lose any more production time...

   Just your average former lurker...

   Edited 3/30/2002 10:13:50 AM ET by oneeyesquare

1. 
   gwcarpenter | Mar 30, 2002 05:50pm | #4

   Why are you guys using radius'd hinges? For under $100 I bought the Lie-Nielsen mortise plane, which will give me square corners, do

   lock and strike mortises, and requires only a square, a chistle or knife, and the means to twirl screws.

   Set-up time for one door?

   Set door on edge.

   Measure and mark.

   Cut stops.

   Mortise.

   Doing several? Stack and mark at the same time. (check what the hell you're doing first... nothin' like six wrong mortises... and explains where the 35 1/4" wide door came from!)

   -gwc

1. 
   Joe1225d | Mar 30, 2002 05:58pm | #6

   George how does that plane do with oak?

2. 
   Joe_Fusco | Mar 30, 2002 06:49pm | #8

   Joe,

   I know you asked GW, but I have the same plane for about 6 years and it does a fine job in whatever wood I've used it on.

   They say lightning dosen't strike twice. . .

   Let's hope so. . .

3. 
   bill_1010 | Mar 31, 2002 04:36am | #9

   The LN butt mortise plane can handle oak, like any plane, chisel or knife, just needs to be sharp.

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com

4. 
   gwcarpenter | Mar 31, 2002 06:23pm | #10

   Joe, I'm late to the party... "what they said" will do.

   I'd be concerned if the grain was "wild"... or knotty... but you may get tearout or blow up the knots with a router as well.

   Keep the L-N #40's blade sharp-sharp-sharp, and take a few swipes to do the job... either narrow, or re-setting the depth.

   I'd rethink my position if I had say... 20+ slabs to do today... with

   two other guys working... but(t) I don't, and find this little plane near perfect.

   (It can't go for coffee, nor does it have a built-in bottle opener.)

   -gwc

5. 
   bill_1010 | Mar 31, 2002 07:22pm | #11

   Think of it this way, no fumbling around for the right collet. No tripping over extension cords. Not having to worry about your supplier having the replacement bit in stock after a while. No fumbling with template set up.  The Cost is probably less then the router, template and jig, and takes up less space.

6. 
   jimblodgett | Mar 30, 2002 05:59pm | #7

   Yeah, I like the look of square corner hinges better, too. I use an antique butt hinge template and a 1/2" straight bit. Then finish the corners with a spring loaded corner chisel. I'm sure you've seen them, maybe 1+1/2" tall so it fits handily into your nail belt, pull it out, place it, whack it, and you have perfect square corners every time. For some reason radiused hinges always look cheap to me.

2. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 02, 2002 06:22am | #16

   Bosch make 1 1/4" mortising bits and 1 3/8" collars to use with their hinge templates - won't do any different job than a 1/2" and 5/8" collar, but it's the one they recommend..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   Sancho | Apr 02, 2002 06:29am | #17

   I use a templaco template which comes in different radius's. They have one with a 1/4 radius and one with a 5/8 radius. I use a mortising bit in my router for routing its simular to a straight bit but is designed for mortising. If you want square hinges then use the 1/4" radius template and a corner chisel to square up the mortise. hey it works for me.... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

2. 
   Qtrmeg | Apr 02, 2002 03:31pm | #18

   Phil G >>> "Bosch make 1 1/4" mortising bits and 1 3/8" collars to use with their hinge templates - won't do any different job than a 1/2" and 5/8" collar"

   Please, would you like to re-think that one?

3. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 02, 2002 05:41pm | #19

   ?? cuts as cleanly and accurately as the the 1/2 and 5/8 set-up you use when you're going to square corners ? What am I missing ? .

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

4. 
   Joe_Fusco | Apr 02, 2002 06:20pm | #20

   Et al,

   I think the thing that's getting away from some here is that it's not the bit or the collar that controls the radius of the corner (well an 1/8"R can't be made with a 1/2"R bit). As long as the template radius accommodates the collar offset + the distance to the cutting edge of the bit, a 1/2" cutter with a 5/8" collar can cut a 5/8"R corner.You don't need an 1-1/4" bit to do the job unless the template has a "square" corner.

   They say lightning dosen't strike twice. . .

   Let's hope so. . .

5. 
   Joe_Fusco | Apr 02, 2002 09:38pm | #21

   Et al,

   The two graphics below will help illustrate the point.The first show how the cut is made with a square template with a 1/2" cutter and a 5/8" collar.This one shows the same cutter setup, but with a round template with and 11/16"R fillet.

   They say lightning dosen't strike twice. . .

   Let's hope so. . .

6. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 02, 2002 11:57pm | #22

   Of course, the Bosch has square corners, unlike the Carey, which has filleted corners and cuts a 5/8" radius with a 1/2" bit (the Bosch cuts a 1/4" radius with a 1/2" bit).

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

7. 
   Qtrmeg | Apr 03, 2002 01:02am | #23

    

   Phil >>> “?? cuts as cleanly and accurately as the the 1/2 and 5/8 set-up you use when you're going to square corners ? What am I missing ?” 

   Not trying to pick on you, but Brian wants a 5/8” radius, not square corners.  I won’t get into whether a 1 1/4” bit will cut as clean as a 5/8” bit, but I assumed the jig is square and wondered where you were coming from.

8. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 03, 2002 05:59am | #24

   Well Halfmeg, that's why I gave him a source for 1 1/4" mortising bits and 1 3/8" guides, so he could use them with his template. I'm having difficulty understanding why you find this all so mysterious.

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

9. 
   brianspages | Apr 03, 2002 08:01am | #25

   phill,

   it's because you are actually mixing apples and oranges. you correctly steered me to what is desired - a bit and collar arrangement that satisfies the conditions for a square cornered template (stanley/bosch) to produce a 5/8" radius corner, then compromise it with an arrangement that would produce a 1/4" radius corner on a square cornered template, while stating it would make no difference.

   i checked on the bosch online catalogue thoroughly and came up with zilch. had to email bosch for the part#. i do appreciate the lead. hope it bears fruit (not apples and oranges, though). i'll post their reply when i receive it.

   thanx to all,

   brian

10. 
    Qtrmeg | Apr 03, 2002 04:24pm | #26

    Brian, you can get bits and collars all over the place. I don't know where you are located, but I'm sure that any woodworking store could order what you need if they don't have it in stock. I don't buy anything online but I look all the time. One source has what you need, and I am sure there are others. >>> http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/accessories/door_acc.htm?E+coastest

    (Pile Giles...bite me)

11. 
    brianspages | Apr 04, 2002 04:40am | #28

    Qtrmeg ,

    the items you referenced with the hyperlink appear to be bearings, not collars...

    brian

12. 
    Qtrmeg | Apr 04, 2002 05:11am | #29

     

    Huh? I show mortising bits, mortising cutters and arbors, and collars (templates guides). Not a bearing bit in site. Try starting at their home page and look for door hanging accessories, there may be some freaky web dilemma happening here. >>>  http://www.coastaltool.com

     

    You should be happy with bit #45505 and collar #42048

     

    Squawk if you have a problem, I will be goofing around here for a while.

13. 
    brianspages | Apr 04, 2002 07:13am | #30

    not much of a picture to discern from, but what coastal shows as template guides seem too thick to be collars. i'll check into the part numbers you supplied.

    hey, guy. thanks alot for carrying the ball this far for me.

    brian

14. 
    Qtrmeg | Apr 04, 2002 07:38am | #31

    Your only problem will be what router base you are attaching the collar to, and if you have the locking ring.

    You never said what you were using for a router...no matter, there isn't much going on around here except for whining about the new board, so someone is bound to get you fixed up before too long.

15. 
    PhillGiles | Apr 03, 2002 05:59pm | #27

    Ah, sorry if that was confusing - the large Bosch bit has a different construction (two pieces, an arbor and a replaceable cutter - these are sold separately BTW) and I was only trying to indicate that it works just as well as a straight bit which most people seem to be more comfortable with..

    Phill Giles

    The Unionville Woodwright

    Unionville, Ontario

2. 
   Joe_Fusco | Mar 30, 2002 05:57pm | #5

   Brian,

   Omit the collar and use a 1-1/4" top bearing bit with a template.

   They say lightning dosen't strike twice. . .

   Let's hope so. . .

1. 
   brianspages | Apr 01, 2002 04:03pm | #12

   still looking for a source of over-sized collars...

   #1  joseph - the templates are set up for use with collars. a bearing bit with a bearing the same diameter as the cutter will oversize the mortisse, since the collar deducts 1/8"... correct?

   #2 i don't like the 5/8" radius hinges either, but they're common. they were obviously mortissed with a jig of some kind, and the stanley jig is the most common. just seeemed like there would have been a collar around for this particular installation.

   #3 it now seems justifiable to do what i've found myself doing, which is to throw away the butt leaf for the door side and replace it with a 1/4" radius leaf and remount onto the 5/8" jamb leaf or replace the hinge butt entirely.

   #the mortising planes sell for $70+ on ebay.

   brian

1. 
   Joe_Fusco | Apr 01, 2002 04:33pm | #13

   Brian,

   #1. Each store bought template has its own spec's. If the one you use requires you to use a collar then to use it, you need a collar. I use the PC hinge template system for many years and it uses a collar. I also use the Hinge MateTM and it uses a top bearing bit.#2. I don't really know how common these types of templets are, but I would agree that there should be a collar bit combo to work for 5/8"R hinges.#3. It seems to me that buying square corner hinges would solve the whole problem. If you make your own gains then a 1/2" straight bit in a router will "rough" the gain then squaring up with a sharp chisel would be the way to go.

   They say lightning dosen't strike twice. . .

   Let's hope so. . .

2. 
   brianspages | Apr 02, 2002 04:50am | #15

   i went ahead and picked up the spring-loaded corner chisel recommended earlier for fun. a regular chisel has always served me well.

3. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 01, 2002 04:56pm | #14

   Jesasa (www.jesada.com) sells a 1 1/8, 1 1/4, and 1 1/2 top bearings that you can use with any 1/2 shaft dia bit.

   They also sell a assembeled 1 1/4" mortising bit with 1 1/2" top bearing for use with Hinge-Mate.

   I think that Eagle America has some similar products.