Hinge routing… 1/2″ radius corners
Unfortunately I have a door hanging job where the hinges are the type with large radius corners… 1/2″ radius in this case. I’ve done tons of the more common 1/4″ radius hinges using my Bosch jig and a 5/8″ bushing + 1/2″ dia. router bit (in fact I have a router baseplate with the bushing epoxied into it as a failsafe).
Anyway, from anyone who has done this, what is the correct bushing to buy? The listings on Amazon are a bit sketchy. They show the P-C 42000 set, which has 8 pieces but does not list their sizes, and the reviews make them sound cheap. They have the Dewalt set, which does not have a large enough bushing. And, they have the Milwaukee set with no sizes listed.
Individually, they have the P-C 42021 (1-1/4″ OD) and the 45101 (1-19/64″ OD) which would both appear to work, but neither is available. Then there’s the Norfield 1-3/16″ OD for $55. Too pricey.
The 1″ router bit… I already have that.
Replies
<<The 1" router bit... I already have that.>>
One door?
Score the outline and freehand it.
More than one door. If I can score a template guide for a reasonable price then I'll jig rout 'em. If not I'll just rout 'em.
Why not just make a template youself? I got sick of lugging a big router around on door jobs so I made templates for deadbolt and strike mortising to suit a laminate trimmer. There isn't a bushing kit for Makita trimmer so I just use the baseplate itself as the reference against the template. Templates are made from 1/4" mdf and have a 'wing' screwed on at 90 degrees for clamping to door or jamb. Version 2.0 got the wing fastened with wing nuts through slots to make easy adjustment for different door and jamb thicknesses.
But... I'm guessing your 1" bit has 1/2" shank so not so easy to put in trimmer. You could use a smaller dia bit and profile the template accordingly though.
WallyLignum est bonum.
I just recently went thru this. If you have the Bosch door hinge template, the only bushing setup that will work (that I know of) without modifying the template are the Bosch bushings. Was told the PC bushings would work but they didn’t. (at least the ones available locally)
You mentioned 1/2 radius, not sure about that, but if you mean the 5/8 radius (standard pre-hung) what you need is Bosch #82869 (standard) or #RA1121 (Tool Free) that’s for the Bosch routers. I have a Dewalt so I got the standard and modified my base. The mortising bit size is 1 1/4. By the way the OD is 1 3/8 and the ID is 1 19/64 on the Bosch bushings… hope this helps
You may be right about the 5/8" radius vs. 1/2". I blew thru there fast and probably didn't measure carefully enough.
When you say the P-C template didn't work, what was the problem? I have the usual P-C 690 router with standard base, and also the large hole base, and Bosch hinge template set.
Porter Cable Part #42048
http://www.portercable.com/index.asp?e=3399&p=3847
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000056OP1/104-6788938-9537511?v=glance&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER
As far as the bit, you need a Bosch 85238M which is an 1 1/4" diameter cutter which comes with a separate threaded shank which is a Bosch 92840. This is a 1/2" shank. You can get it with a 1/4" shank, but you don't want that big head spinning on a 1/4" shank.
Amazon doesn't seem to sell the cutter, just the shank, so...
The cutter:
http://www.toolsdirect.com/presentationpage1.cfm?pagename=productdisplay&manufacturer=Bosch&productid=85238M&finish=NA&source=BoschOnline
The shank:
http://www.toolsdirect.com/presentationpage1.cfm?pagename=productsearch&justfindit=92840&CFID=233646&CFTOKEN=f0ebc22c06a821e2-7F18A31A-1422-1161-709689DD71A17F73
good luck. when I would switch back and forth between these different radius hinge setups on my Bosch jig, I always had to fiddle with the fine hinge length adjustment on all three jigs. it was enough of a pain that I would just fiddle with one and move it around depending on how many I had to do. be sure to do a test cut on scrap first.
ps you have exactly the same equipment as I do.
carpenter in transition
Edited 9/22/2005 2:41 pm ET by timkline
It was late I should have explained what didn’t work.
I tried the P-C 42048 bushing, it has an OD of 1 35/64" and ID of 1 3/8", the Bosch has OD 1 3/8" and ID of 1 19/64". I fiddled with the adjustments as Tim said, but was still short a strong 1/16". That was on the length of the hinge.
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IIRC the hinge jig is set to cut a width of 1 1/8" for a 1 3/8" door, but with the P-C bushing only cuts about an 1" which would move the door further into the jamb. Not sure if you are replacing doors in existing jambs or if you are cutting the jambs as well. If using existing jambs would most likely have to adjust the stops and maybe the strike plate.
<!----><!---->For me it was easier to make the Bosch bushings works with my router. Less messing around when I need to use it.
Edited 9/22/2005 6:07 pm ET by lvlhd
You never did say how many doors you're doing. I have a single hinge, plastic Porter Cable template that does a 5/8" sweep. Came with a 1/2" mortise bit with an oversized top bearing. Don't need a bushing. I think it cost 25 bucks, and it works ok on doors, and jambs w/ stops. I've used one made by Carey (three hinge job) that sucked, but it's cheap<G>. "what's in a name?" d'oh!
A little followup on this.
The PC 42084 template guide definitely does not work with the Bosch jig. Like LVLHD says, the max cut is 1" deep and it needs to be 1-1/8". You can set the jig for 1-3/4" doors and use a 1/4" shim to move the jig to the right spot, BUT... the max length of cut is 3-3/8" when the jig is set for 3-1/2", even if you back off the fine adjustment all the way. No easy workaround for that problem.
I was at HD a few weeks ago and did see a PC plastic template for hinge routing, but it was not the one that did the 5/8" radius sweep, it was for 1/4" corners.
Anyway, as much as I like slick tooling setups... no go on this one. I attached the hinge leaves to the door, scribed around them with a knife, and then routed as close to the line as possible. Took about 30 minutes per 3-hinge door and I'm just steady enough to make it look alright. For a handful of doors it was tolerable.
Edited 11/8/2005 11:02 pm by davidmeiland
hey david,
let me share a tool I found from lie nielsen.
butt mortise hinge. only around a hundred bucks. if you have only one or two doors to mortise, this is amazing. I mean AMAZING.
you can mortise a door better than with a router. for square butts of course.
but for radius corners on a one time door, why couldn't you use a forstner bit for the corners and then the plane.
i stand corrected.
sorry about that, it's been a while. although it is coming back to me now. we had the same problem. i started using a Hingemate setup years ago prior to having the same problem of which you speak. the Hingemate is easily adjustable for even bastard size hinges, so that was the solution for us. it's a great product for cutting the hinges on the doors but not as well suited for the jamb cuts.
tim
carpenter in transition
I just googled that, it looks like a good tool. It says 'spacers included for rabbeted jambs' which makes it sound at least possible to mount it to jambs. I was hoping my Bosch jig would do most of what I need, and it does. Since I bought it I have had some odd size hinges and a couple of 4-hinge doors (buy the extra $200 kit if you want to do 4's). I'm learning to tell people that if they see me making a template it's because they chose something difficult or non-standard. I'm not willing to own $800 worth of hinge mortising stuff to cover every possibility.
The Bosch could easily be modified to adjust to odd hinge lengths by anyone with a few hours to spare and some tools for working heavy sheet metal. I might do it.
it's actually a great tool.
and yes, you can mount it to jambs
adjusting the hinge size takes about 5 seconds. there are no presets, loosen the wingnut, insert a hinge in the tool, slide the tool to the hinge for sizing, tighten the wing nut and remove the hinge.
the clamping setup is quick and non-marring to the doors. for doing door replacement work in existing jambs, there is nothing better out there. my only peeve, and a minor one, with it was hinge backset adjustability. using shims, you can easily reduce the backset from standard, but increasing it means gluing shims to the tool guide, which is a pain. i called the owner/designer of the tool and told him my complaint and encouraged making this adjustable. his response was something along the lines of keeping the price of the tool affordable and using an industry standard backset as the default.
yadayada if i were him, i probably would have said the same thing. honestly, it really wasn't that big of a deal
nice website, by the way.
carpenter in transition
David, are you sure they are 1/2"R? I've been in a whole lotta door shops where the production prehanging happens, and only seen 1/4R and 5/8R.
The production shops prefer 5/8R, because a hinge mortise only takes two passes with a 1-1/4 mortising bit.
You don't want to use an ordinary straight bit for this job. Get yourself a mortising bit. They cut cleaner on the side entry and exit.
I would have to agree with slykarma because our methods are identical. You will waste too much time tracking down parts and they might not work. You can make templates fast and you know they will be right. You might want to make three and attach them as one unit to fit your hinge layout.
I decided to get the template guide and see what I could do with it. That's as much as I'm willing to do for the large radius hinges. I hardly ever work with them, almost everything I do is with square corners. I suppose if I have to do it again I might make my own jig... or maybe tell the owner they're getting new hinges.
Without trying to sell you something, you can make something similar to this jig.
The first hinge should take you 15 sec.
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/mortise-and-tenon
You have X-Y movements with stops. You adjust the stops for the hinge in 10 sec. (one time only) and you can rout the first hinge in 5 sec.
The same system can be used for all your routing. Dadoes-mortises-tenons -whatever.
I hope this helps.
YCF dino
Edited 11/12/2005 10:40 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Looks complicated and expensive, but at the same time versatile.
if you only see it as a mortise and tenon jig, yes it is.
But this is the very same system for cutting and routing that you can also do mortise and tenons. For hinges works very ez.
Instead making a template for each hinge, you adjust the limit stops.
If you have limit stops on X and Y movements, you have a very versatile system. Here you can see how I build some work stations for the shop.
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/smart-router-system
and here you can see how I repair the carpet board sample.
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/the-ez-brain-opener
The very same tool. The sliding arm is the trick.
Enjoy.
Thanks
YCF dino