Hello. We are looking at adding on to our home which has a Hip roof 4/12. The home is 40′ long x 30′ wide. I was up in the attic looking at the framing and noticed that the joist run the length of the home and are parallel to the jack rafters and not the common rafters. There are a few braces going to the ridge board and the common rafters have been tied together with two 2×4’s about 3 feet down from the ridge board to keep the rafters from swaying. There are no supports that I can see to keep the walls from pushing out. There are no joist that tied into the common rafters. Is this a problem?
Thanks
Replies
the 2x4's sound like collar ties. How old is the house?
Thanks frammer52. The 2x4's are running perpendicular to the common rafters and tie them together only to keep them from swaying. They are no collar ties on the common rafters. The house is only 6 years old. It is out in the country so I doubt the builder followed code. Actually this guy was building the house as a rent house for my parents and skipped out on the job and left alot of work to be finished by my father and I. I ended up with the house and now want to add on to it.
collar ties should be up higher
Agreed. Should have said rafter ties.
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It's probably not a problem. If it was, it would have manifested itself somewhere else.
Your instinct to tie the walls together is correct and there are many ways to accomplish that. The most obvious way is to tie the walls with the ceiling joist but there are lots of ways to skin this cat.
Are you noticing any problems?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Hello Jim. No problems yet but I want to add on to the house and don't want this to become a problem. I'm worried the walls will soon start to bow out and the roof line will start to sag. The house is 6 years old.
I want to add on to the house and don't want this to become a problem
A good time to add some rafter-ties.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Huck I think the only solution I have right now is using collar ties and set them just above the joists. Any other ways of doing it?
Thanks
Hard to give a solution with out a picture. But you could possibly use purlins just make sure they are legged down to a wall and not the ceiling joist. Another option would be to beef up the ridge with a beam or legs to a bearing wall. The walls won't blow out if the ridge can take the roof load.
Hello. I added some pics online if you would like to take a look.http://picasaweb.google.com/blownonfuel/OurHousePics
It looks like plenty of strongbacks and supports there. unigue situation, but probably OK.
What iswith the playwood ceiling tho? Is that over a carport or porch, or everywhere?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hello Piffin. The plywood over the carport, that's a whole other story.
Huck I think the only solution I have right now is using rafter ties and set them just above the joists.
That's exactly how I would do it!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Thanks Huck. But the more I look the better it looks. I posted some pics online. Take a look if you would like.
http://picasaweb.google.com/blownonfuel/OurHousePics
Looks pretty good. I may have used bigger purlins, but I come from snow country. I also sometimes overkill.
Collar ties would probably be easier,but if he was gonna be cutting into the roof during for the add on,would adding a beam under the ridge work too.As a self supporting ridge.Locating posts would be tricky though on a 40' run.
Collar ties do very little to resist outward pressure on walls from roof loads. The purpose of a collar tie is to resist upward pressure caused by wind.
Edited 2/7/2008 11:05 pm ET by Bridge_Dog
As a precaution, if I was concerned, I'd run a 2x4 wall tie every 4' and tie the rafters together on top of the ceiling joist. It's not technically a perfect solution but in light of no problems showing up right not, I think it would probably suffice to add a little more wall spreading resistance. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Welcome here!
Is that handle FC, or TFD? Or maybe, be still my beating heart, Fuel Altered?
Forrest
Edited 2/7/2008 7:42 am ET by McDesign
Hello and thanks for the welcome. Fuel Altereds for ever!!! Although I do like anything that burns "fuel".
Hello. We are looking at adding on to our home which has a Hip roof 4/12. The home is 40' long x 30' wide. I was up in the attic looking at the framing and noticed that the joist run the length of the home and are parallel to the jack rafters and not the common rafters. There are a few braces going to the ridge board and the common rafters have been tied together with two 2x4's about 3 feet down from the ridge board to keep the rafters from swaying. There are no supports that I can see to keep the walls from pushing out. There are no joist that tied into the common rafters. Is this a problem?
Thanks
1. If the ridge is braced stiffly to solid framing below (2x4 down-braces should be doubled over 4' long. At 30' wide your 4 pitch should rise about 5'), this relieves some of the outward pressure of the rafters against the exterior walls.
2. If ceiling joists are parallel to ridge, the end joists should be tied to the outside walls with blocks that sister to the rafters. These should be 48"o.c. max.
3. If rafters are spanning over 14' - 6" level and are 2x6, they need an intermediate brace (what you are calling a sway brace) midway (give or take). If you wanted to do it right you would make the 2x4 into a "hog" or stiffback and downbrace it every 48".
Regards,
Craig
http://www.theroofsmith.com
Hello Craig. Thanks for the help. I uploaded the pictures I took of my roof framing. You can take a look if you want, click on the link or cut and paste. Now that I look at it, it seems he used purlins and placed them over walls. Maybe it is not as bad as I thought.http://picasaweb.google.com/blownonfuel/OurHousePics
If you're worried about it, and can afford to do so, I'd add collar ties
to the roof framing. Around here (NC), building code requires them at 48"o.c. Also, I'd think about down-bracing my purlins. If there's no walls to brace to, you would need a stiffback below. None of this is any fun with duct work and insulation in the way (I feel your pain).Sometimes structural problems don't show up until much later. But if you're OK with the way the roof is right now - in other words, unless you're trying to correct a specific problem - I wouldn't go overboard "fixing" the roof framing now.Regards,
Craig
http://theroofsmith.com
Since someone else will do it eventually anyways, I'll go ahead and get it over with: collar ties are in the top third, and are there to prevent uplift from separating the rafters from the ridge, whereas rafter ties are in the bottom third, and prevent wall spread. Semantics.
OK, now on to what I really wanted to say. Cool website, and looks like a cool program. Did you develop this yourself? I'm an old cut-and-stack guy, but haven't done a real roof in years. I have dedicated a page of my website to it, with links to more pics.
Do you find there is much actual cut-and-stack framing going on these days? Seems like everywhere I look around here, its all truss roofs. I hope your "tool" does well, and was just wondering if you had any feel for where the majority of your customers are located.
I would add: if you brace your purlins down to a wall, its preferable to choose a structural wall with a footing, like a shear wall.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
In the Charlotte area, the production house and apartment builders will use prefabbed wall panels and roof trusses. But the custom home and remodel market is still very strong. These projects are generally "stick built."Thanks for taking a look at "The Roof Smith". I guess I finally got off my butt and did what I had wanted to do for a long time. I hope to eventually make it into a general "carpenters math" tool, with stairs, landings, picket spacing, etc.Regards,
Craig
http://www.theroofsmith.com