Could someone recommend how to connect a hip to a ridge in my situation?
I’m stick building a shed roof addition to my garage that has half a hip on each end. The slope is 5/12 and intersects the existing home about a third the way up the 2nd story. The ridge is nailed to the 2×4 wall of the 2nd story. The king common rafter of the hip end will also be nailed to the 2×4 wall of the 2nd/1st stories.
I’m attaching two bird’s eye view drawings of this connection. The first one, typical_hip_connection, shows the norm. The problem is I can’t nail from within the existing house, so my hip connection will be lacking. The second drawing, lag_hip_connection, shows what I think I should do. The arrow in lag_hip_connection shows where I want to put 3 (size?) lag screws. And, yes, I do realize that my solution would require a slight shaving of the ridge to complete the king common rafter nailed to the wall.
Hope this makes sense. Thanks for the help.
Replies
A couple of spikes is plenty, so your lags will be more than sufficient.
FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
What are the dimensions? Spans?
We usually frame it the way you drew it, but nail through the king commons into each hip. We had one last year where we hat to strap the hips to the ridge. That was called out by the engineer. It was this house http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler/Lot46Gleneagle/photo#5098704653741580530
The first drawing is a normal situation, you nail the first hip into the king common on the house. Next you nail the second hip into that one and then nail the second king common into the second hip. Plenty of nailing.
No way do you need to use lag bolt in the second drawing if you choose to do that. Nail one at time.
Also, the center of the two hips will be where the end of the ridge is, not the way you have it drawn.
Edited 11/29/2007 9:11 pm ET by Framer
I couldn't say that any clearer if I pondered how to do so for days.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"Also, the center of the two hips will be where the end of the ridge is, not the way you have it drawn."I'm not so sure that he doesn't already know that.
It appears that he's decided to offset the hip from it's usual centerline but I suspect that he's misdrawn the ridge and has ommitted the line that would indicate where the ridge normally ends. I think he referenced something about that stating "I'll need to shave...." If he were to draw a line at the center of the hip, and also show the line on the hip where he has it drawn now, the drawing would be a bit more precise. The drawing that he is showing would either be a dropped ridge (I've done those often for various reasons) or a ridge that has not been "nipped" yet. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
And, yes, I do realize that my solution would require a slight shaving of the ridge to complete the king common rafter nailed to the wall.
Jim,
I don't know why he said that because no matter what way he does it, the center of the hip should be at the end of the ridge just like he has it in the first drawing. The king common stays the same and nothing has to be shaved. I don't know why he thinks anything has to be shaved. Nothing changes either way he puts those two hips in.
I just drew in the blue line in drawing #1 continuing the hip cut all the way through like drawing #2. Nothing changes.
Drawing #2, I drew the line where the ridge is supposed to be without changing anything with the common rafter run.Joe Carola
Jim,
Here's the cross section showing the double hip in blue with the center in line with the end of the ridge and where the edge of each side of the hip hits flush at the top of the ridge and flush at the top of the king common.
Joe Carola
I think this shows how he might be doing it. I've used this method myself in some situations. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Jim,
It doesn't make any sense to do that because the way you have it drawn, that king common has a different run than the front commons. The hip runs at 45° and the center of the hip has to be at the end of the ridge and that keeps the end king common and the front common the same run.
Why would he change something so simple?
Joe Carola
Edited 11/30/2007 11:12 am ET by Framer
It might make sense. It all depends on the goal. Obviously your goal is to have all your commons be the same length, but that is not necessarily a given. That odd common might be terminated before it hits a wall plate. It could be a layon, a dutch hip, a different run or there could be a wide variety of reasons why something like that is done. I know I've done it a few times in my career but I cant really remember where or why. Mostly, it happens when I'm up there carving (blending conventional framing with trusses) a roof in like most of my career. I don't know why he would change that. Maybe he's thinking that there is better holding power for his lag bolts because there more meat to the end of the ridge. Personally, I wouldn't be bolting it no how, no way, but that's his call. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
I'm stick building a shed roof addition to my garage that has half a hip on each end.
the spans for the king commons are 13'.
Jim,
This is what he said. So that means he has the same common run for both front and wall king common and the hip running at 45°. He saying 13' spans, but I take it as 13' for the run for both.
I don't know why he would change that. Maybe he's thinking that there is better holding power for his lag bolts because there more meat to the end of the ridge. Personally, I wouldn't be bolting it no how, no way, but that's his call.
I don't know why he would bolt it either. Definitely do not have too. Even if he did you do not need to cut the ridge like that.Joe Carola
"ven if he did you do not need to cut the ridge like that."Agreed and I don't know if he intends to cut it like that. I was merely showing how that particular detail view might work if another dotted line was made. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Jim,
Here's a drawing in plan view showing both king commons at the end of the ridge, but I also drew the double hips where you can see if you kept the front king common there how the double 45° cheek cuts are made.
I also show the hip on the left if you just cut the 45° and continued it through like we're discussing and that would eliminate putting the front king common there, but the point is that the commons should all stay the same and the ridge should be in the center of the hips no matter what way you do it.Joe Carola
Thank you all very much. I'm an electrical engineer so my lack of framing knowledge usually means I over think it, hence the use of lag screws.
By the way, the spans for the king commons are 13'.
Framer's first response about nailing everything individually pretty much clears up the problem. I had planned to nail the double hip together on the ground first and this created my dilemma.
You all did a great job of interpreting my drawings and description. Jim_Allen's drawing was the exact interpretation of "shaving off the ridge" and I'm glad to know that someone has done this before and I wasn't crazy. I came up with this idea because I wanted as much of the ridge to screw into as possible. I figured the king common attached to the house didn't really span anything because it could be nailed to each 2x4 of the existing wall. In other words, it's really just blocking for attaching the roof deck.
Thanks for the help.
By the way, the spans for the king commons are 13'
Is that deducting for the thickness of the ridge? You have to be careful with that. If you measure 13' from the outside plate of the front common to the existing 2x4 wall and it's 13', then your common span is really 12' 10-1/2" not 13'.Joe Carola