Our area is growing quickly. The amount of work available of the past 5 years has increased greatly. Unfortunately the qualified labor pool has not grown to suit.
For this reason we will be submitting an ad in the local classified. I would love to get in touch with some solid individuals through trade contacts, family and friends, etc. but those types seem to already have decent positions.
Even as I type this I’m thinking to myself that this approach will not have great results. Demand is up so the good ones are taken. We will be advertising primarily to those who are not already employed, which leads to the question “why are they not employed?”. Unfortunately we have to make the best of the situation and do what it takes to develop a solid crew.
I will be combining a few skills test that I have garnered from here over the years to suit our needs. What I really need help with is the qualifying of callers.
What questions should be asked to weed out the losers?
What general advice do you have to limit the time spent face to face with undesirable prospects?
What language is the most effective in the classified ad copy?
Any other advice would be welcome and appreciated.
Jon Blakemore
Replies
Jon,
I have had to advertise for help on a variety of occasions both in my previous life and this one. It do suk. (be prepared for this as the pinnacle of intellegence for 99.9% of your respondents on the classifieds). On the positive side, many of the subs I work with spend every early break scanning the classifieds. They say, ya never know when something better will come along. So not everyone looking at the ads is a deadbeat (just 99%). The other 1% are the people ready to Benedict Arnold their current employer for antother $.25/hr. OK. it is not quite that bad, but in my experience close. If you want to shrink the pool, be very clear what you want in your ad. Be realistic, put the wage range in, put the min. requirements in. be as restrictive as you can in a short ad. Helps some. Do not put a number to call that you need to use alot (your cell phone) Have your other line (with a message machine/voice mail) accept the calls. If you are in a large market, the response can be overwhelming. In my previous life I had over 250 calls in one day for 2 jobs. Bleh.
Another option depending on your location and actual need for full time help, is to use temporary labor. We have a qualified labor pool company locally and I use them regularly when I need an extra set or two of hands and then when I do not need them, back they go and the cost goes away with them.
I hope you are needing the extra help because you are growing, not because someone left ya. If you are growing, congratulations, I am heading that way myself. If ya got left, consolations, been there done that, still bitter.....
Regards,
Whack
Jon, I've done a fair amount of ads. I start the screening process with the words. I usually include something like "Only serious career minded people need bother to apply". Some of the riff raff understand that they don't qualfy.
The next stage of screening is in your recorded message. In the message, you explain all the basic character traits you are after "friendly, career minded, hardworking, drivers license, transportation, references, yada, yada, yada". Wind up the message with a comment that all applicants must be able to pass drug and background checks. Have them leave a name an number if they fit your description.
This approach will do two things. You don't have to talk to every low life that has worked 15 different jobs each year since he dropped out of high school. More importantly, the GOOD people are more inclined to be more interested in working with you because they don't like to work with morons either.
Instead of the 250 replies, you might have to sift through 10 or 15, depending on the season.
Check out your state unemployment workforce center. I just started looking into ours online and I'd start there before running ads.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
How about requiring a dna sample?
And Reason alone can never explain
how the Heart behaves.
How about requiring a dna sample?
YUCK!Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Thanks Blue,I am going to follow your advice and direct all calls to the voice mail. I hope this will weed out the not-so-determined and also identify those with the inability to communicate.I am looking into the unemployment angle. What kind of workers have you (or do you expect to) found through this channel? I would be surprised to be connected with decent, hard working people, but what do I know?
Jon Blakemore
Jon, If you log into the Mi works site and fake a registration, you'll be able to view thousands of resumes, but no names or information. You'll see ten resumes per sheet when you punch in a keyword. If I punch in carpenter, I'll get 250 resumes with that word in it somewhere.
Some of the people eliminate themselves with their demands. Some look good, but live to far. You can narrow the search by milage.
Do a google search for your own state and you might be surprised.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Jon
>I noticed that you are in Fredericksburg. I am too and recently ran an add in the Free Lance Star and had mixed results. I received about 30 calls on a 5 day add.
> I prepared a phone interview form to organize information and weed out the yahoos. Like the other fella said state clearly what you want.
> I specialize in historic preservation and restoration work and asked specific questions about knowledge of wood lath plaster etc to qualify applicants on the phone.
> I only invited 5 applicants to the job for interviews and although I did hire a guy from the add he did not work out. Yhe whole process was very time consuming and frustrating. I ended up hiring a guy that was refered to me by a kitchen designer that I work with and had told that I was looking to hire a detail oriented carpenter.
> I would recommend spreading the word with suppliers, subs etc. in addition to the add because the responses in this market will be weak.
> One good thing about the add is that a couple of self employed carpenters did respond and said if they could be of help on an hourly or sub basis they would be interested.Expensive but good contacts none the less.
> If you would like I would be more than happy to email you a copy of my phone interview form. It is pretty simple but it is my "system".
>The best of luck, Jay
jon.. go to your regional voc-ed and get yourself known to the Carpentry instructor
make sure he knows the type of work you do.. a lot of those young dudes and dudettes are not cut out for remodeling.. they have dreams of being framers
they come with good basic skills and the instructor can be your screener
once you have them , it's up to you how you hold them and develop themMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,You know I've always said I would recruit from the vo-tech schools and other similar sources, but when the time comes to implement my idea I completely forget about that. I need the reminder.I have to remember to stay away from the Jeff Buck types there, though. You never know what kind of riff raff could be lurking.
Jon Blakemore
Jay,I sent you a private email. Did you get it? It's good to see someone else from Fredericksburg.I would like to see your interview form. That could be a big help.
Jon Blakemore
Jon! Please do not rule out those of us you are making a career change. I am willing to work for minimum wage just to have the opportunity to learn from someone like yourself. But you must be willing to take the time and have the patients to teach. As knowledge grows so then will the wages.
Either you or Jay said that they do old house restoration work. This is the kind of work that I am interested in doing. At this moment I am working on this house in Floyd county so it can be sold, lack of knowledge is slowing me down some. Then I will be moving to Richmond to work on a project that is waiting for me there (see "Civil War house" in the Photo Gallery).
If you need someone right away then I would not be able to help you. What I am trying to do is point out that lack of knowledge from a prospective employee is not always a bad thing IF that person is willing and wanting to learn. They may not have the knowledge but DO have the work ethics that you need, like showing up for work on time and properly dressed.
I wish you the best on finding what you want and hope that some day we may get to meet each other, after all we are not that far from each other.
Dane
I will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Dane,I don't mean to give the impression that we're not interested in those who do not have a full skill set. On the contrary, sometimes I think that's a big benefit to us.What I do hope is that I can the balance between someone who is loyal and won't want to quit their current job and a job-hopper. Neither does me any good.
Jon Blakemore
There is an excellent article in the new JLC about group interviews.
check it out.
MrT, SamT, DanT,RonT,Ms.T…<!----><!---->
<!---->
Whatever…<!---->
<!---->
Welcome to Breaktime!!!<!---->
Where…<!---->
The free advice is worth every Penny!!!<!---->
:P<!---->
<!---->
I've never run an ad ... only answered them.
Lotsa them! Anytime I was ever looking for work ... I'd call every ad that was close to my "expectations" then shorten the list from there.
So .. as an "ad answered" ... I'll say off the top of my head what I looked for.
A cleraly stated position. "finish carp" would win over "carpenter" ...
I like specifics .. tells me the company running the ad knows what they're looking for.
I also like the company name and address included. Sooner or later I gotta find out where it is ... why not cut to the chase. Plus ... names I'll remember ... phone numbers all blur together ... if I called U last month ... I don't want to do it again. I have gone so far as net search a phone number. Plus ... I know what parts of town I will work and where I won't ... just tell me where ya are.
I think stating basic requirements are great ... but I laugh when I read ... experience needed ... must have 12 years.
What the hell is that? 10 years ain't gonna work? I'd say 5 or 6 at most positions should get ya pretty well experienced.
I like to see a "salery" ... but understand why it's not included ... so I won't bitch about that.
I also like to see ad's that try to sell the company a bit .... just shows me they're at least thinking about trying to set themselves above the rest.
Basically ... I won't call ... Wanted to start immediately. Carpenter. $12/hr.
Now that might be the best job for the best company that's starting everyone at $12/hr then bumping me up tp $22 as a lead within one month ... but I ain't calling.
I gotta get a feel for the place thru their ad.
even something as silly as "good work environment" catches my eye ... like I said .. just shows someone's at least giving some thought. They might be lying .. but at least they know a bad work environment produces bad work!
Hope this little bit helps.
I'll scan this Sun's ad's and see what catches my eye.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
What the hell is that? 10 years ain't gonna work? I'd say 5 or 6 at most positions should get ya pretty well experienced.
Actually Jeff, I like that idea: minimum 12 years experience.
There will be two type of callers. You'll still get the guys that started full time "when I was 12, my dad used to take me on the job". That would actually mean that he is a 25 year old and has worked 7 years.
The other type would be at least 30 years old, because it isn't legal to work in the trades with power tools before age 18. In a roundabout way, it's age discrimination, which appeals to me on some levels.
Note to the younguns: The reason that I prefer 30 years old and up has a lot to do with safety. Statistics show that carpentry is a safe occupation for those 30 an up. Under 30 and it's considered a high rish occupation. I'm not sure why, but I think it has something to do with focus. Old guys focus on the work. Young guys are thinking about that hot number that they made love to the night before.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
"You'll still get the guys that started full time "when I was 12, my dad used to take me on the job"."
I'm both guys .. Dad started me at 8 years old!
and ... I'm now over 30 ... fairly stable?
So do I get the job!
like I always say ... 38 years old ... 30 years on site.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
With all that experience, you would think you could hang crown mold by now...
:P
MrT, SamT, DanT,RonT,Ms.T…<!----><!---->
<!---->
Whatever…<!---->
<!---->
Welcome to Breaktime!!!<!---->
Where…<!---->
The free advice is worth every Penny!!!<!---->
:P<!---->
<!---->
Dad started me at 8 years old
Full time? Well, that means you skipped your arithmetic classes!
I'm not hiring a guy that can't do his "guzintas"!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
You can eliminate alot of rif raf by listing an address, or e-mail address, and requesting a resume. It doesn't require much effort to make a phone call, but the little effort required for a resume thins the field considerably. Having work experience, and contact information listed by each individual makes life alot easier during the interview, and hiring process.
Be specific about driver's license, just because they drive doesn't mean it's legal.
DustinThat's what I thought. The applicant successfully filled out an application and had a resume prepared. Both were pretty good. I guess you never know.
Jon Blakemore
Jon, I screen them with a recording. Then, I do a half hour phone interview, taking notes. Then, I schedule an onsite interview and take notes. I compare the notes. I then hire them.
They usually come in now. If they aren't serious, they skip the on site interview.
I ask them to bring their tools on the onsite interview. I look into their trunks/trucks.
I form opininions about who they are by looking into their trucks!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Young guys are thinking about that hot number that they made love to the night before.
Old guys are thinking about that hot number they made love to last year ... or was it the year before? Kinda hard to remember now ....
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I get a LOT of that down here as well.....lotsa 8-9 buck an hour jobs, all of them looking for "experienced" carpenters. Start talking in the $18.00 dollar range to start and they start choking on their coffee. Bet I've sent out over 100 resumes over the course of the past few months, most all of them hot to hire, according to the ads, then start talking a decent wage and they say, "we aren't looking for that much experience". And it just isn't in the little GC either..I just interviewed with a big outfit based in Dallas, they were all gung ho after the receipt of my resume and the hour long phone call (they initiated) to get my butt to their office ASAP, have a 2 hour interview there, hire me, send me to the drug screen, tell me a couple days later I passed, and now it's been 2 weeks since I've heard from them and they said I'd be on the road in a matter of a couple days from the return of the urinalysis results.You want to see a pathetic listing of available jobs and what they pay?? You ought to check out the OKC newspaper, lotsa work..all basically minimum wage for carps or just above it.All I can say is that a person in this neck of the woods had better be ready for lots of ad answering and don't get your hopes up until you actually have a week in on the job or you'll be sorely disappointed.If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
about 10 years ago I followed the wife down to Houston ...
I ended up back in bartending ... make twice what I would as a carp.
Luckily I hated the bar owners and fell into a carpet cleaning company that started my official sales training ...
I was making about $15/hr as a carp here ... they were looking to pay more like $5.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Ahh bartending. Made more money in less hours than anything else ever. Plus....
Well you know the plusses
A guy I used to work with told me of his one week stint as a bartender.
Got to drink on the job.
come payday boss handed him his pay check and said:
"sign it and give it back and you owe me 100$"
That was the end of that!!!
Pete for POPE!! <!----><!---->
<!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
Our first hire was supposed to start today. Note the "was".No show, no call. I am going to contact him and if he has a legitimate excuse we'll take things from there.Otherwise, I would show him the door but can't really do that with someone who's not here.Enter the wonderful world of employee hunting...
Jon Blakemore
Jon, I found that if I try to hire new employees over the phone without an on site interview, fewer than 50% will actually show up if I hire them.
In busy times, that number will drop to 10% or less.
One time, we were having a hard time getting people out. I told the screener to stop screening and just hire every body that called. The next day it looked like the parking lot of a mall! We had guys crawling around everywhere!
That house holds my record: 38 employees (straight off the farm, then quickly back on to it!) on payroll!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
A lot of jobs are filled through nerworking or hiring a friend of a friend or a friend of one of your workers. But there are people out there who may be very good but they may be bew to the area or just don't have that network of friends. I'm in that case and my only access is the classifieds. The unemployment department sites could be better utilized.
Mention a "drug test required" to weed out a lot of riff-raff.
Do you want speed, quality and cheap? Pick two.
~Peter
Long live the Pope!
Happy to help with this one. Your add needs above all to convey who you are as a company to attract the right people. Case in point, if you needed work who would you call first?
Constuction Laborers needed, Paid daily $DOE. 555-1212.
or
Long-term FT Construction Positions available with well established, respected local builder. Education and advancement opportunities, EOE.
To interview, call 555-1212.
I build for a living, but I somehow woke up after four years in college with an advertising degree. I'm happy to consult if anybody needs adv. help or agency.
Duke,Here is the last ad we ran:"Carpenters
Remodeling Co. seeks qualified and motivated individuals for varied positions. Competitive pay and benefits."Give me your critique.
Jon Blakemore
"CarpentersRemodeling Co. seeks qualified and motivated individuals for varied positions. Competitive pay and benefits."
Ho Hum.
Jon, what's the hook?
Who exactly are you talking to?
What is the emotional appeal?
I think you've read through the book: First Break All the Rules. Apply some of the 12 questions knowledge into your appeal. It works.
I've used a version of this one: Carpenters: If you are a serious, career minded individual, please call 123-2345 to hear a 24 hour recording.
The recording is crititical to build desire because you get to explain how great your company and it's work is. It also is critical to eliminate the riff raff.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!