I recently had to hire a carpenter due to a project I landed. I have not hired anyone in over a year. I put an ad on craigslist. It was like a fire hose had been unleashed. The ad was only up for 4 days, and I must have received at least 60 responses.
If I remember correctly, last time I did this, I received maybe 10-15 responses. I know the national unemployment rate is 6.5%, but I live in California, and I would imagine the unemployment rate in the construction business is much higher here.
In Cali, if you pay someone $24/hr or less, as a carpenter, then you also pay 30% an hour more for workmen’s comp. $25/hr and up, the rate is 15%. If you have a huge construction business, and no claims, your rates are probably lower.
I think what this 30% addition is doing is stopping employers from hiring apprentices. They end up only hiring trained personnel at the higher rate. This is what I am doing. The way around this is to hire a laborer illegaly and pay them cash.
This is the “Wallmart” effect. Buy cheap goods from China, thinking you got a great deal, but in essence contributing to the cratering of your manufacturing base.
I rarely find ads for apprentice positions anymore. This is very, very bad. Until we are able to effectively reform workmen’s comp this will continue to happen.
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That sliding scale really is silly. Here's a conversation that happened between myself and the company owner I was working for about 7 years ago.
Owner: Dave, I need you to go give Aaron a $1/hr raise.
Me: Uh.... OK. Why?
Owner: Because if we pay him $1 more his work comp cost goes way down.
Me: Uh.... OK. Consider it done.
Here in WA it's somewhat the same. Work comp premiums are based on hours worked, and they are a specified dollar amount. For instance, I pay ~$2.50/hr for "Wood Frame Building Construction". If the employee makes $10/hr, that $2.50 is 25% of their wage. If the employee makes $30/hr, that $2.50 is more like 9%.
In general, I agree with you that it discourages hiring lower skilled workers--especially in CA where rates are so high--but my main issue with lower skilled workers is that I have to supervise them all the time and they tend to fck stuff up. Companies that operate based on a lot of low skilled workers just have to suck it up and pay the WC premiums. I'm sure that low skilled workers get hurt more, due to the nastier work they often do, and their own inexperience.
Our rates are a straight percentage more or less, but according to categories. Roofers and painters are closer to 20% while some trades down close to 14% of amt paid.
And when a company goes through regular safety meetings, training, inspections from the comp guy and dots the Is and crosses all the Ts and maintains a good safety record, they get a discount paid back every so often. Fail to kiss up and you lose the discount. Fail too often and your rates go up.Can't remember, but I think that there is an upper limit too, so if you keep th e records right, you don't have to pay comp once the number of hours per week is over 44 or something like that - which is crazy in itself, since most of the accidents I've seen were from overtired and overworked guys pushing it.
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steel workers used to be 100%. don't know the current rates.
Bud
When I was in CO, roofers rate was 44% on the front slope and 47% on the west slope. High steel and logging were the only higher rates
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Those rates aren't set out of political reasons.. they are simply doing an isurance type deal.. actaurial experiance based on number of claims and amounts involved..
When I was selling Telehandlers that was one of my main selling features.. you could hire grunts to hump things up there or buy equipment at a lower cost to do the same job..
The ideal crew was three people and the right equipment.. owner and lead carpenter plus a skilled carpenter.. maximum productivety minimum cost plus the owner wound up with something instead of a book entry..
"The way around this is to hire a laborer illegaly and pay them cash."
That's not very cheap when the guy gets hurt and sues you or you get the hospital bills in your lap. Makes that insurance look darn inexpensive.
The rate structure sounds screwy though. I know the less experienced guys are more likely to get hurt, but not twice as much!
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In September, DW and I decided the yard was getting out of control, and I just didn't have the time to get it back to where we wanted it. Didn't want to hire a landscape service who might not do things the way I wanted 'em done.
I put an ad on Craig's list for a temporary position in the "general labor" section. I specified short term, temporary, etc.
I got about 40 responses for what a generation ago would have been a afternoon job for a high school kid- weeding and general yard work.
They ranged from folks claiming 15 year carpentry experience (for a glorified weeding position) to people with years of experience as nursery managers, to recent college grads looking to start their careers.
I finally hired a retired guy who said he liked to do weeding and garden work to relax- and getting paid to do it is nice too. Nice guy, and no problem when I said I was going to 1099 him at the end of the year.
It worked out well, but I was shocked at the number of responses, and how overqualified most seemed to be- especially since this was before the big downturn.
Here are the rates I actually pay in Ohio
sheet metal work--intallation and drivers 12.5%
carpentry---detached one or 2 family dwellings 24.6%
roofing---all kinds & yard employees and drivers 36.9%
so for roofing--it's almost 37% of the workers payroll----wether the employ is an in-experienced laborer at $13/hour----or basic skills at $18/hour
so-in our case the incentive is to do the opposite of California--and do do as much as possible with the lower skilled employees
On most roofing jobs I would estimate that over 85% of the work can be done quite effectively with fairly modestly skilled individuals---and there is a real limmit to how many workers you need to do the other 15%.
A very profitable crew--if all are enthusiastic workers who SHOW UP RELIABLY (lol) and the work is sequenced right is
1)a skilled owner operator handling the skylights, the chimneys, flashing details and misc. carpentry
2) a 20 year old with 2 years experience--essentially a shingling specialist--slap and tap--20 year olds can move FAST
3) a general laborer--who will have his hiney worked off
#3 should be learning so he can work up to #2
#2 should be learning so he can start his own gig and move up to #1---he is probably already doing side work
#1 is constantly looking for new #'s 3&2
there is a severe limmit to how many #1's you need per crew
Best wishes,
stephen
Kind of wondering why more people aren't structuring as LLCs. WC not required on LLC members in New York.
Steve
steve.... what does that mean ?...... not required for llc members in NY ?
do llc's have empolyees ?
if llc's hire subs.... don't they have to get certificates of insurance from their subs ?
i don't see any structure removing the liability of workers being injured unless they are covered by WC
how long would it take a good Personal Injury lawyer to pierce that corporate / llc veil and take all the owner's assets ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,We're all in it together. No employees. Everyone is a member, given a certain percentage, I'm 80%, my two other members are 5% each. The percentages mean nothing really, as we all own our own tools and stuff and lease stuff to the LLC, so the LLC has no physical assets. We each file our own personal income taxes and do a schedule c. We all get to deduct stuff like we're self-employed rather than employees. I file a form with the state workers' comp board listing all members, and they issue a certificate of exemption that goes on record at the county codes office. When I pull permits, they check to see if I'm exempt.One advantage is that everyone gets to deduct a lot more stuff. Another major advantage is that each member can lease stuff to the LLC, taking lease income, which is not subject to FICA, rather than straight wage compensation, which is subject to FICA.Don't really know how bullet proof it is, but every small construction guy I know around here structures it that way. I see at least a half-dozen new listings of LLCs being formed in the legal ads in the local paper every day, not just construction companies, everything imaginable. My attorney/accountant does most of the construction companies in the area. He's a local big-wig.Big disadvantage is no-one is covered by WC. I try to encourage my guys to get health insurance, but they don't have it as of now. One of them is starting to think seriously about it though.Edit to say: yes, need cert. of insurance on subs.Steve
Edited 11/8/2008 8:39 pm by mmoogie
steve.... i would find it very hard to think it would protect you...
let's take a hypothetical :
one of your 5% "guys" takes a fall off the roof..... he's now a parapalegic...
his hospital bills amount to $300K
his projected annual health /living costs.... are $200K
his wife's father hires a Personal Injury lawyer to find someone with deep pockets who is going to take care of the medical bills and his daughter's family's living expenses
who wins / who loses ?
common law and the irs both say the 5% guy meets the definition of an employee
i say thinking that the structure of an LLC absolves one from the liability of being ultimately responsible for injured workers is not going to stand the test
IE: to me, it's just a different version of the same old game.... trying to redefine who is .....and who is not, an employee
many of my former subs no longer work for me because they changed their structure
...they used to have employees and covered them w/ WC
now .... they are "sole-proprietors" and they have Independent Contractors working as subs.....
same guys...only now they get 1099'd
doesn't pass the smell test....
it does comply with "state law" in respect that they do not have to have WC.... but i think about the guy lying on the ground who will never walk again... and i know i don't want to spend the next 3 years in civil court... and risk evrything i own on the decision of a jury
100 people died in the (West Warwick , RI ) Station Club Fire.... some were employees of the Station Club....
no ...i mean they were " Independent Contractors" working for the Station Club
those two brothers who owned the corporation that owned the Station Club sure do wish they had WC
it's called insurance.... and it's a legitimate business expense
WC was created to protect the worker AND to protect the employer from suit
how long before NY relearns this lesson ?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 11/8/2008 9:39 pm ET by MikeSmith
I don't know how bulletproof it is. My attorney said it has been fought in court with one of his clients and it held up when one of the injured members got hurt and tried to sue. It's probably about the same protection as any other partnership structure.The fact is I'm doing it more responsibly than a good many around here who still play the independent contractor ruse for people that are truly employees. I was on the losing end of that structure for way too long. I could have got the guy I worked for in a lot of trouble had I chosen to do so.LLC's are perfectly legal and above board and they have their advantages, not the least of which is that I can pay the guys better than if I had to pay another 30% towards WC, UC and FICA. And I can stay competitive. I'm already at the top of the scale for what people charge around here. It makes me more than a little nervous that they are flying without health insurance though, not for my sake, but for theirs. I'm going to start looking into disability insurance too.Steve
here's a NY State site that discusses Employees and WC
http://www.wcb.state.ny.us/content/main/onthejob/CoverageSituations/emplDefinition.jspMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
From that site you linked:Limited Liability Company (LLC) or
a Limited Liability Partnership (LLP)Under Section 54 of the Workers' Compensation Law, members of a Limited Liability Company (LLC) or a Limited Liability Partnership (LLP) are treated the same as partners of a business that is a partnership under the laws of New York State.If the LLC or LLP has employees, the members of the LLC or LLP, themselves, are automatically excluded from that coverage. The members may elect to have themselves included in that overage by filing a proper form, the C-105.32 with the insurance carrier. That coverage election form may be obtained from the insurance carrier.Workers' compensation coverage is not required for members of a LLC or LLP that does not have employees. (Employees) However, if a LLC or LLP that has no employees obtains a workers' compensation policy, the members of the LLC or LLP are automatically included in that policy. The members of a LLC or LLP may elect to have themselves excluded in that coverage by filing a proper form with the insurance carrier. That coverage election form may be obtained from the insurance carrier.
i was just going to post that same citation....exactly
so... my question really goes to the nature of this "member"
let's assume we have one of the 5% members.... or even a foreman... say a 20% member
how do you direct them ?
how do you terminate them ?
who buys the job materials ?
who controls the checking account ?
who sets the working hours ?
who schedules the work ?
other than sharing the profits... what is the difference between a "member"
and an "employee"...
do you have laborer members....carpenter members......foreman members ?
here's this legal entity.... an LLC with say , 7 members......
but you have the same people acting as members as i do acting as employees
what sets them apart in the eyes of a Workmens Compensation judge asked to make a determination as to wether the parapalegic was an employee or not
seems he would use the same checklist as he does for "Indepensent Contractors "
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,Well it's not very complicated for my little group. It was just me and Henley for the last year and a half, and I took on one more recently.They are probably pretty analogous to your employees, but with more freedom, though that's just because I'm pretty mellow about it all.They can come and go as they please. We agree an a start time by consensus. They can go home or not show up anytime they like, I just expect the courtesy of a phone call so I can plan my day.I try not to tell them how to do their work (hard for a perfectionist like me...I tell Henley to kick me in the chops if I start micro-managing...and he does).The LLC agreement spells out that that they can be terminated at any time for no reason whatsoever.I usually buy materials because I have accounts all over town. But sometimes they buy stuff and bill it to me.I have the LLC checking account that they get paid from. They bill the LLC by the hour.I schedule the jobs for the most part, but it's pretty loose. We often just kind of come to agreement about what's most pressing to accomplish any given week.There is no profit sharing. The % means nothing really. But I give a pretty good bonus.In short, I don't think there is really much difference between an LLC member and an employee...mostly just tax differences.I'm kind of surprised it's allowed to be done this way. The insurance companies must not like it and they are pretty powerful. The WC industry must not like it. Yet it remains legal and seems to be ever more common.What sets them apart in the eyes of the Workers' Comp judge? I have no idea. That's what the lawyer is for. He tells me it's legal, and defensible, and that it has a demonstrable track record, and I believe him.I think we all view it as a way to be able to work together, yet be basically responsible for ourselves. In a way I think that breeds more responsible behavior from everyone. No one expects to be taken care of so we take care of ourselves. If they wanted to go work for one of the larger outfits down the road in Oneonta, they could get hired as employees and have workers comp and vacations, but with far less freedom and probably at about half the hourly rate they are making with me.Would they rather make the same hourly wage and be covered by WC and UC as well? Probably. And so would I, but that's not reality. You would have to ask Henley how he feels about it. I think he likes being able to decide to use his money as he sees fit rather than have to pay for WC and FICA with it. And I know he likes being able to deduct all his tool purchases and driving costs. I know that for about 2 dollars an hour of his wage he could get health insurance, and I've urged him to do so for his own good, but he's young and foolish (you out there Henley?)I've no reason to doubt my attorney. Can you document any known cases of legal problems arising from the WC exemption? Steve
Edited 11/8/2008 11:56 pm by mmoogie
no.... i don't doubt what you say.....or your lawyerjust doesn't work for me... people say one thing.... but when an injured worker is up against... what choice do they have ?i tried the IC dodge for about a year after i laid all my guys off in the S&L / Credit Union depression...i couldn't sleep at night thinking about what could go wrong...
and my motto has always been...
"what , me worry ? "so i put them back as employees, incorporated and got WC againMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I could never bring myself to do the independent contractor thing. It's not fair to the guys most of all, and you leave yourself wide open to IRS as well as insurance and liability problems.I admire you for doing it like you are. I just don't think I could be competitive around here running employees.I'm not 100% comfortable with the LLC solution. Something in the back of my brain says it's gonna get shot down someday, because the monied interests are being hurt by it. I am comfortable with avoiding WC if legally possible, as I think it's abusively priced, like all required insurances are. Optional insurance is another story altogether. I would much rather just buy myself some health insurance and some disability insurance. At least the Insurance outfits have to stay somewhat competitive if you can walk away from them. I am mostly comfortable with my guys having the choice of buying whatever levels of insurance they want to spend their money on, I just wish they would buy some, for their own good, but I'm not their father. I think they benefit a lot from the tax advantages and deductions.I may be deluding myself about my exposure to liability. I don't know. I wonder if there is some data on that aspect of it somewhere.Steve
The flaw in just buying health and disability insurance is:Some health insurance co's won't cover an at work injury.Disability although cheap, gives quite limited coverage. I think about 70% of what they say a person with your occupation makes. Also, it can take some time to kick in. Waiting for the money, when you really need it can be rough.I'm an S-corp,and as an officer,I can elect out of comp coverage. But I'm on site pretty much full time, and am at the same or often greater risk than any of my employees have been. (I often take the dangerous stuff on personally, as I'm the most experienced, and would have a tough time dealing with getting someone else hurt or killed)Why would I not want the same protections for my family and self as by law I must provide to anyone doing the same job? If I get killed or terminally injured, my family needs to live too!Yeah, it's costly about 15-16% of gross payroll for my company. And I know about competing with those getting around it, and payroll taxes, etc. I use it as a selling point, as Piffin said, it is protection for both my company and my clients. It's one of the things that helps me land jobs on pricier homes. People with money generally are receptive to a professional company, and professional companies, in my opinion try to run a clean and neat and by the book as possible.I've struggled with this since starting out on my own. Sure I've lost some jobs to those with "independant subs" and such. But not many. There is alot more to a job than cost. You just have to be able to defend your "extra" cost at all times. Someone not willing to pay them is probably not someone I'd want to work for. No one looks out for my health and welfare, but me. Ask the customer about their coverage at their place of employment. Don't you deserve the same?Sorry about the rant, this is a big isssue to me. Construction workers seem to always be on the short end of the stick. Mostly, becuase we let it happen.Brudoggie
Good rant! I also cover myself with WC at a cost of about 10% of gross pay.
i'm covered on our S-corp comp too... i have always covered myself since we incorporated
one of the things about incorporating is i started to think of myself as an empolyee
a very important employeeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
exceedingly important on those days when the corp needs a loan... oh yeah
David,That's not a bad rate. Is it lowered because of job classification (ie supervisory), or is that standard for carpenters there?The one caveat for me is that during the times, such as now, when I am the only employee, my premium is based on 2. So I overpay, during such times. It comes back as a refund at annual audit time, but I'm not too hot about loaning the insurance company money, interest free every year.It can be very tough to be legit. It's nice to see others who's opinions I respect, such as Mike, Piffin, you, etc, feel and operate the same way. If there were more of us out there, this business would be a bit easier.Brudoggie
My rates range from about .90/hour for interior painting (never use that one) to about $2.75/hour for remodeling. I'm at 90% of full rates this year due to accident free history. The state allows the employer to charge a portion of the premium to the employee as a payroll deduction. For remodeling my company pays about $2.30/hour and the employee pays .45/hour. Maybe it serves as some incentive to the employee, I dunno, I always figured I didn't want to get hurt anyway.
That's interesting. Must be the State run difference. Mine is based on rate/$100 of gross payroll. It varies slightly between the two states, Michigan and Wisconsin. I have to break each one out for the audit. I use a carpentry classification of up to 3 story ,primarily residential, but most light commercial here also fall under it.With that, I can do roofing, as part of a larger project, without a rate increase.Brudoggie
"I usually buy materials because I have accounts all over town. But sometimes they buy stuff and bill it to me"ooops! You mean they bill it to the LLC, right?And ALWAYS sign LLC documents with your title treasurer or president, right?see how easy it is to make that one slip-up that smears the line between one and the other and can be used against you for an opponent in court to claim that you were just using a legal structure to sidestep the reality?
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Mike, I haven't read further, but am commenting on only the post to which I hit "reply."
I cannot imagine a NY LLC contracting business owner (the "owner" is member #1) making any of his employees members of his LLC. No matter how trusted the lead carp, foreman, project manager, or whatever, those folks are all employees.
As employees they fall under his WC coverage.
He may have deals with key employees specifying terms of bonus, profit sharing, or some other kinds of spiffs, but he does not make them members of the LLC. The local contractors here that have LLC as their form of business, typically have themselves and a wife or partner as members, and no more.
But, hey, that is just my take on this.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Gene,Every contractor that I know in this area that is an LLC is doing it that way. Now admittedly I don't know very many that closely, and the ones I do know are all running with under 6 people, but it is common practice here.Steve
My atty told me that LLC gives almost no liability protection, that it is a vehicle/tools similar to corp, but not as good, almost as much work. His opinion was that it is fine for a limited time situation, say to perform one big job, then disband. it is a step up from a partnership for some, but without a lot of the bennies of a corp.i'm sure it varies from state to state. My accountant tells me that a lot of the claims for tax benefits have not been tested in court, and she was not willing to be the one to test them.I went Corp C
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Do you really mean C corp? Or S corp?
yeah, C corp - what did I say?
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You did say C corp. I would expect a small sole-prop type business to be an S corp, with all profits flowing thru to the shareholders rather than corporate profits being taxed separately. I'm not sure how it works in practice, but I don't think I've heard of another small builder with a C corp. Do you have shareholders other than self/wife etc.?
Sorry, I had myself confused on which was which. Thanks for catching it. I am an S Corp.S Corp
S Corp
S Corp
S Corp...
I'll finish my punishment on the blackboard, the old fashioned way
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we are also an S-corp..... we incorporated before there was much talk of LLC's
but if i were starting out, knowing what i know now... i'd still choose S-corpMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"WC was created to protect the worker AND to protect the employer from suit"More than that - ultimately, it protects the property owner.
My clients are some pretty deep pocketed HOs. any lawyer in a situ like that would simply be stepping over me on the way to the HO if I hadn't kept full WC on everybody who worked on site. I owed my customers that level of protection.For instance, the roofer I hired who brought his BIL lobster fisherman out one day to throw shingles for him...If he had fallen and broke his neck, would his wife's lawyer wonder where to look for $$$$$$$$$$$$ if there was not a good policy in effect?
That policy makes for a comfortable bed to sleep in at night.
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Where I am in Ontario, we actually have our Workers Compensation board auditing for employees dressed as subs. My partner and I were listed as two seperate companies, we shared gov't docs like payroll files wsib clearances ect. One day we got audited, they ruled me an employee of my partners company despite our paper work clearly showing a 50% split in profit. We had to pay 20,000 to straigten that out. Hopefully your government will not behave the way ours has.
Steve, I think you need another lawyer or cpa opinion. This type of arrangement was tried and shot down several years ago.
The thing to look at is the definition of employee, either IRS or NYS. If you do, I am afraid you will find your "LLCPArners" are actually employees. Only reasoin I know is Been there done that>G< The state unemployment, checked my books and it was all over. They did give me time to pay the back taxs without penalty.
Frammer,How long ago was this? Do you have any documentation of the circumstances under which it was shot down?I just find it hard to believe that everyone in this area is doing it and it's so dicey. The number of LLC listings in the local legal ads is astounding. But I think it's relatively recent--maybe the last few years that it's really taken off. My lawyer is no slouch. He works for some of the most monied people in the Cooperstown area. About fifty people in his office an his name is the one on the door.Not diminishing your concerns, I just would like to see some case history if possible.Steve
This happened back in the early 90's. Have4 you had any audits? That is what shot down most schemes.
We each file our own personal income taxes and do a schedule c
My credentials-I've been an accountant for 30 years. Here's the way I see it.
There are three main types of LLCs for business'. A single member LLC operates as a Sch C, this is not your case. A multiple member LLC operates as a partnership or a Sub S Corp. You appear to be neither of these since you file Sch C. You each go about your own business and keep your own set of books and file your own taxes. Since you are not acting as a real LLC, a court of law or the IRS could easily jump past the name and find you all liable for injuries or debts.
The correct way to operate as an LLC would be to set up a LLC checking account and record all income and expenses. Then at the end of the year, each member or partner would get a schedule k-1 with an amount of income to report. Any coming or going of partners would have to be accounted for too.
The biggest reason LLCs were invented was to protect partners in case another partner screws up and creates a huge financial liability. Take Arthur Anderson for instance. If one partners audits Enron and gives them a clean bill of health, and they go under and the court awards the stockholders $200m for a bad audit, who pays? In the old days, the partners would all owe (and the partnership would dissolve because of bankruptcies). If you have an LLC, only the partner who screwed up owes.
Now for your "5% partner". Suppose you two are working on a roof. He trips over your house and does a nose dive off the edge. You could easily owe thousands in legal fees and doctor bills because you are partially at fault. A LLC does not protect you from mistakes you make.
Another major advantage is that each member can lease stuff to the LLC, taking lease income, which is not subject to FICA
This is a common error. Many people put rental of equipment on Sch E so as not to pay Social Security. This is incorrect. There is a note on the top of Schedule E 1040 that reads: "Note. If you are in the business of renting personal property, use Schedule C or C-EZ." When you do this, you end up paying Social Security on your earnings.
Your local Big-Wig may need to check his facts.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Edited 11/12/2008 5:21 pm by Marv
Edited 11/12/2008 5:27 pm by Marv
Marv,I am a proper multi-member LLC. I file a personal return and the LLC files a partnership return. Payments to the partners are on a schedule k with the partnership return, under guaranteed payments.I do have an LLC checking account and all money in or out goes through it.The rental income is on schedule e, and as I look at it I see that it's actually for rental of my shop space, not my personal property.I don't really think I should be going over my returns line-by-line on the internet.I don't expect to be protected from my own mistakes. I know that in not having workman's comp, we are all at risk, me more than anyone. We've discussed it, and as of now, we are all willing to take that risk. That may change. I do appreciate all the advice, and value this discussion.I do intent to raise some of these issues at my next meeting with my attorney. No need for you to disparage him.Steve
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you said you filed a Sch C in your original post.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
No problem, Marv. My mistake. I did say that I file a schedule C. I thought I did, but upon closer inspection of last years taxes (my first year as an LLC) I see my personal returns no longer include a schedule C, and now include a schedule E. I'm trying to get clearer on it all myself. My accountant/lawyer, while very good, I'm lead to believe, is not overly communicative. I have to sort of drag explanations for stuff out of him. He just mails me a detailed questionaire/worksheet to fill out with raw data, and he does the returns based on that information. I go over them when they are done. If I want clarification on anything I have a meeting with him.My previous accountant was a more direct kind of communicator. I would sit with him for a couple of hours and we would do the taxes together. I actually looked forward to doing them, and had a very clear understanding of what I was doing and why. I liked him. He was pretty conservative in his approach, and I never worried that he was pushing the envelope. Unfortunately, little known to me, he was also filing tax returns for dead people. He is now a ward of the state. Oops.Steve
So if you work on a house with three of your guys and one gets injured, how liable is the homeowner to cover the injury?
If the homeowner is a lawyer, he or she figured out a way for your insurer to be primary.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
He or she must be a very slick lawyer because around these parts, no WC means the homeowner is on the hook for the whole ball of chewed gum. I think the only jobs that a guy could get would be none and nonexistent, with none winning 90% of the time.
Around these parts (what is this, a Clint Eastwood western) a permit cannot be issued without the contractor providing insurance certificates, at every tier. The towns stepped up the level of enforcement to protect homeowners.
They don't do any plans review, or do inspections, but boy, are they detailed when it comes to insurance coverage enforcement, including WC.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Mike, if you had a NY LLC, you, and perhaps your wife, would be members.
Like corporate officers. New York exempts officers and LLC members from needing to carry WC on themselves.
I tried to sue myself once, but only John Edwards would take the case.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985