Having an over active mind I am looking for opinions. I am a handyman. I work for primarily upper middle class folks and do small jobs. The largest jobs usually are bathroom remodels and electrical service upgrades.
In my previous professional life I was a maintenance super at a couple of large business hotels. One thing I learned their was that having about 50% of my staff being female worked out really well. I was limited on the amount I could pay but it was more than unskilled women could make usually so they loved the salary. They generally had a better sense of color co-ordination and often were more detailed than the guys. So my costs were kept more in line and my work was more detailed to sum it up.
I am currently adding another truck and employee. I am able to do this because I learned early on from Jeff Buck not to admit I caulk drywall corners occasionally. 🙂 My big picture plan is to add another truck in a year or so and then add a helper to float between the 3 trucks as needed. Keeping in mind what I have said above I am thinking of looking at a woman for this position with the idea she could work in a trainee mode and later have her own truck. Anyone with experience in this? Sound dumb? Sound really intelligent and you wish you had thought of it sooner? Thanks, DanT
Replies
Personally I would hire a purple martian with pok-a-dots who came to work in a space ship if they were qualified for the job. Race, color and gender don't matter to me at all. Character, committment, and dedication do.
I like it ! You wanna fill us in some more ? I think this is where I learn from you this time .
Tim Mooney
What's gender got to do with it if she's dependable, clean, and takes instructions?
What kind of respinse were you looking for? Something like, "A woman in a corner with a caulking gun is a dangerous thing to imagine!" ??????
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Low-balling the women's salary can backfire on you big-time, even if happens accidentally (the potential is there in your hierarchy). Skills are where you find them, and gender is no longer a strong indicator.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I have no idea what Phill is infering......but I like the original idea.
I like caulking the corners too.....but never let'm see ya do it. Better and easier confuses people sometimes!
I'd think your hiring base may be of a better quality of you focused on females. You are obviously looking for a beginner.....and it sounds like the work isn't gonna lead to "bigger and better" things.
By that I mean....you aren't gonna run thru a buch of soon to be bored 19 year old kids with poor math skills that want to "start somewhere" then build houses the next. You know, cool stuff like lifting walls and climbing ladders.
For quality handyman stuff....you'd need to find someone focused and detail oriented....and I'd make a nonscientific guess that a female that applies for that position may try harder...because she's applying for a nontraditional role.
Years back......in trade school......out of about 60 students...there were 3 females. And all 3 were among the best students in the bunch. Not that I think females are any more suited to carpentry then males.....but for 3 girls to decide to go to an almost all male school.......they were plenty commited to the field before they even started.
I see parallels.
Put the company in your wife's name..then hire and all female staff.....ya might be able to get Gov funding that way? Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I am thinking of looking at a woman for this position with the idea she could work in a trainee mode and later have her own truck
Well, just don't overlook a man. Are you thinking of this b/c you think you can hire any woman for less than any man? Or that women will be more faithful employees? Or? I've worked in some non-traditional jobs and indeed had to work twice as hard and twice as fast and twice as smart as most of my male counterparts. Didn't mean I liked it or that it was fair. However, a leg up is a leg up.
I was limited on the amount I could pay but it was more than unskilled women could make usually so they loved the salary. They generally had a better sense of color co-ordination and often were more detailed than the guys. So my costs were kept more in line and my work was more detailed to sum it up.
Sounds like you are thinking you could pay unskilled women less than unskilled men, and get their supposed color coordination skills as a free bonus. I think you mean well, but perhaps it is only the bottom line. How many ne'r do well guys will you go through before you get one dependable woman? (Yeah, there are some slimy gals, to be sure. One of my bosses actually had the nerve to ask me to ask his mistress to work harder!)
Always try to get the best person for the job - blah, blah, blah..
Having a woman as part of your crew goes a long way for your business in the "handyman" world. It doesn't sound like you need he-men/ heavy lifters on a regular basis, if at all, and having a woman walk in to a house where the Mrs. is home with the kids might be a welcome change for the Clients. This has been my experience - provided she is equally as competent. I assume though that since you will be training her this is a non-issue.
Even on larger jobs, I get a different (read nice) response from Clients when they see a woman on my site. They no longer feel as though their home has been taken over by a men's club.
I think your comment concerning paint color was a bit off the mark. I don't feel this is an employee's responsibility. Maybe not even yours. If the client wants a color, they tell you what it is. Taking on the decorators role can get you into trouble - unless you have the training/ experience and are compensated for it. If this is another part of the business you are trying to develope, well that's a horse of a different color.
I appreciate the responses. I think Jeff really saw what I was trying to say.
Phil, as much as I appreciate the oppurtunity I am not looking for a usless fight today.
The point was never to pay the women less, its just what my budget would allow. The women I hired at the hotels could have worked in housekeeping for $5.50, or waited tables and made $6-7, or worked at the local Dairy Mart for $5.15. I hired them for $7.00 to start and they were thrilled. They simply made better money and learned a skill that they could use long term. I am limited as to what I could pay in my own business and thought the same strategy might apply.
As far as hiring guys, again Jeff hit the nail on the head. I hire a 19 year old who wants a career for $8 and he is gone in 3 months. I have no problem paying good help good money, my new guy starts soon at $17. But as a beginner I can only pay so much and just thought maybe the strategy would work well.
Color co-ordination and matching skills was important in the hotels but not important in what I do today, it was just a reference point.
Piffin, maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry.
This is just an idea I had in my head and simply thought it might be of intrest to others as well as multiple ideas being better than one. I appreciate the input as it is thought provoking. Those of you who thought I was trying to turn to handyman prostitution I am sorry to disapoint you. :-) DanT
Hope you do well with whoever you hire.
No apology needed - I was just rattling your chain.I should be the one to apologize for not inserting the smiley.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
I have had several full time women employees, working both in the field and in the shop. If she is interested in the trades you will do very well, most learn at a faster rate than some men. However you have to accept the strength limitations as well as the mood swings. Both caused me to get my butt kicked more than once until I learned to deal with it. Guys are more forgiving when you get on their case about the little everyday crap. With women it's the tone of voice bs that gets you every time. On the upside it's pretty hard to get really upset with a pretty face. My big mistake was I married my #1 employee and now I can't get away with anything.
In my area (cabinetmaking/woodworking), I know employers that are actively looking for women employees.....they've had great experiences or heard about others great experiences (not trying to generalise, but I think the comments about the type of woman that is willing to enter a non-trad field are on the money....high end people). I graduated two last year....both working for the same company, along with another woman out of the carpentry program here.....ran into their foreman just before Christmas, and he was extremely satisfied with all three. I don't have any this year (unfortunately, and not because I didn't try); like I said, I see a growing number of companies looking to recruit qualified women.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
Personally, I think I would benefit from having a woman on staff if I were running crews like yours.
I have no real sense of color - Don't understand why the paint stores have 50 shades of "off-white" that all look the same.
And a woman would think about things that a man typically wouldn't. Like tracking mud in the house, or leaving the work area. Men have to be trained to think that way, but women do it intuitively.
Seems to me like it would be a good idea.
Finding an honest politician is a difficult thing to do. Not nearly as difficult, however, as finding a black man with a toupee.
The part I like is the diversity. Having employees who think in different ways or see life (or colors) in different ways, gives you the flexibility to target employees to the most appropriate job. Take advantage of their unique skills and perspectives. If a female provides that diversity, peachy. If it's a gay male, peachy (Just kidding--it's fun to provoke a political correctness reaction sometimes!). My favorite co-workers and employees were ones who had perspectives different from mine.
DanT -- why would you ever caulk a drywall corner -- its just not as clean and crisp as a mud corener. -- think hotels use too much caulk to cover up sloppy work -- ever look around tubs/sinks and doors in bathrooms , stuff is just slopped in and is it not pretty -- jsut a sign of a sloppy job
I'm with the rest, go for it it she's the best -- am sure you'll have a niche that others will not have and when she is ready to do her own thing you both can become partners instead of competitors
Dudley,
The corner caulking thing is done on old rental houses when doing quick and dirty repairs. It was posted a few years ago and the poster got roasted for saying it. I have done it on occasion when asked to do the job as fast and cheap as possible. I and Jeff Buck are apperently the only two on the face of the earth who have done quick inexpensive work at a clients request. I and Jeff normally finish drywall as you are supposed to. DanT
Dan,
I'm the last person in the world to be politically correct, BUT you seem to be saying that you expect a woman employee - by definition - to act differently than a man would.
You're entitled to your opinion - and I might even agree with you that (statistically speaking) men and women think and act differently. However, I'd be very careful about being open with this opinion of yours around the employees. I think it could easily backfire in your face in the form of some sort of discrimination suit. All it takes is a ticked-off employee and a sheister lawyer.
Around the employees, stick to the "best person for the job" thing and leave it at that.
That said, I've hired women on a couple of occasions, and it worked out well. But be careful about what your assumptions are going in. Even though a woman might be more conscious about tracking mud and dirt into the clients house, I don't think they'd appreciate the job of cleaning it up to be theirs due to their gender. The only real problems that I can say I did have with the females centered around this sort of thing. Sometimes they were oversensitive when it came to cleaning up or running out and getting lunch, etc. Even though these tasks typically fall to the low "man" on the totem pole, they sometimes perceived it as being based on sexist attitudes.
Good luck,
Ragnar
Edit: Dan, I think I should also say "congratulations" for having an open mind and considering a woman in a tradionally man's field. Others can not get past this. Anyone with the ability to think for themselves is a merit to our profession.
Edited 1/2/2003 3:36:38 PM ET by ragnar
Umm, read the first message again. I said I had done this before in a different profession. I have managed employees for 20 or so years. I am simply looking for thoughts on acceptance of customers, whether its a good business decision, etc. I have no qualms about working with, for or around women as I have done so for years. DanT
Dan,
They [women] generally had a better sense of color co-ordination and often were more detailed than the guys
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anything, but the above comment could be interpreted by some to be sexist. It seems to indicate that you believe certain characteristics are linked to a certain sex.
Again, I'm not even saying I disagree with the comment - just saying that you should be careful out there.
Ragnar
sterotypes come from somewhere!
Next thing we'll be arguing if whether my gay customers really have more money and better taste!
BTW....they do!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I agree, Jeff! I personally think that stereotypes are rooted in reality. Like you said - they come from somewhere.
It's nice working for gay people because they do have good taste. So far, I've never had a gay client ask me build something that would look like crap.
Ragnar
You guys are a trip!
Ah, well then you've obviously never made stage sets..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Ragnar,
Careful of what!? I simple made an observation of my experience. I think women do a lot of things better than men. I think men do some things better than women. Typically I think this occures because of experience but there are few items that go with the way women think differently than men. I posted my thoughts on a bulletin board to simply get some different opinions, I was honest, up front and non combative and tried to explain fully my thinking and why I posted it. So what in the world would I want to be careful of? If it will make you happy I will screen all future sexist posts through my wife, she is a career woman and a personell director for the state. She might be able to help correct my failing in this area and guide me to a more careful approach at asking for advice. DanT
OK Dan, just forget it. I'm not even arguing with you, but you don't seem to get the point I'm trying to make.
Edited 1/7/2003 12:11:46 AM ET by ragnar
ragnar,
It seems to indicate that you believe certain characteristics are linked to a certain sex.
Again, I'm not even saying I disagree with the comment - just saying that you should be careful out there.
Oh Barf, Men are stronger than women physically, is that a sexist remark as well. There are some things women do better than men and bla bla bla, that's just how it is, nothing sexist about it period.