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Discussion Forum

Historic renovations and green building

| Posted in General Discussion on February 26, 2008 11:43am

I’m really into green building and want to get more into historic renovations in the future.

Does anyone have any experience where the two overlap?

I know theoretically, most historical buildings used local, non-toxic materials, but then again the buildings were leaky and poorly insulated. And I get the impression that modern historic renovations have much more to do with appearances than actual material selections.

Tell me what you know.

Cheers.

 

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Replies

  1. theslateman | Feb 27, 2008 12:00am | #1

    Numerous times I've used recycled slate and other salvaged architectural items in the restoration of other homes.

    I think thats as "green" as it gets -- recycling materials that would have gone to landfills and given them a new life.

    1. kellylucille | Feb 27, 2008 12:17am | #3

      Thanks for responding.

      I also sometimes get frustrated at the overabundant use of the word green in terms of building but I try to think of it as an umbrella term that includes durability, energy, resource and labor efficiency, good indoor air quality, and recyclable materials that are ideally produced locally.  Prob'ly missing something but you get the drift. More like smart, quality building. Do you really want that to blow over?

  2. MikeK | Feb 27, 2008 12:05am | #2

    The fact that your renovating the home instead of tearing it down and taking dumpster after dumpster to the landfill is green, no?

    The long life span of the materials used in older homes is green. My house still has most of the cedar shingles that were put on in 1982. All the original oak hardwood floors are still in the house. Compared to the shorter life spans of many of the modern materials I would argue that old home are "greener" than new homes.

    IMHO this whole green fad will be over in few years and we wouldn't have to waste time discussing it.

  3. User avater
    Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 12:19am | #4

    I've just refurbished 6 casemant windows from 1915. They were busted up and stored in the basemant since someone replaced them with Double Hungs that fogged, and failed.

    Yes it was a pain, yes they are single pane divided lite, but one thing I did to merge Old and New was replace the use of glazing putty with glass stops instead.

    Geeen? who cares, it's a catch phrase for salesmen..what I do is consider will these wndows last another 100 yrs?

    Almost every project on this particular home , is returning to what was original, and removeing the alterations that seemed like a good Idea at the time..and when a new product seems appropos I'll use it.  I ask myself, "If they HAD this type of _____back then, would they have used it?" 9 times out of 10 the answer is yes, and if they had used it, I wouldn't be doing what I am doing..thats green to me.

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

    1. MikeK | Feb 27, 2008 01:47am | #5

      Sphere,I would be interested in the details of your "glass stop" technique. I have quite a few older windows to reputty. Are you using a wood trim piece instead of putty? How do you seal it to keep the water out?Thanks.

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 01:57am | #6

        I use Azek ( can't locate the thread I did just yet) and milled it to 1/2"x 5/8th" at 36 degrees , glued in with Big Stretch caulk and stainless steel 23 ga pins.

        I bedded the glass, (no points needed) in the Big S, and mitered the corners of the Azek stops with hand miter trimmers ( avail at Lee Valley) and a bench top Lion type miter trimmer.

        A small bead where the azek meets the wood mullions and muntins , and pin away.

        I pre primed the sash. Then any trimming of "proud" azek above the muntins was done with a sharp razor knife, and finally SW Duration paint.

        I had arch top glass segments, I made a heater with a heat gun and Iron pipe , made the azek, bend like putty.

        I'll dig the thread and post it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

        1. MikeK | Feb 27, 2008 02:08am | #8

          Thanks for the info. It seems like a more sane solution than puttying. Since the caulk is behind the stop and not exposed it should last a long time, as long as it can handle the temperature movement of the azek. Can Azek (or similar) be painted a dark color?

          1. User avater
            Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 02:14am | #9

            Here's the deal. Azek willout last any putty that is not painted regularly, and much easier / faster to install AND replace if a pane breaks. It is re-useable. Just cut and pry and remove the old pins..these sash are 30' up , in dormers..not likley to be maintained.

            Big S caulk will aallow movement, it never gets hard.

            Azek is noy supposed to be painted dark , but that is in a mode like fascia or large trim..in this case, a 10" pc. that small, can't possibly expand /contract enough to cause concern..I tried it with black primer and set some in full sun..a smidege maybe a few .001's of change.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

          2. MikeK | Feb 27, 2008 03:37am | #11

            This is such a great idea that someone could make a fortune marketing a kit with precut azek pieces and caulk bundled with instructions.

            My concern is that I have sections of my window that meet in a point at the bottom. If not 100% sealed at this joint the water will get in at the bottom miter joint. I supposed I could use PVC glue to fuse the joint at the bottom.

          3. User avater
            Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 03:47am | #12

            A dab of the Big Stretch at the miter, AND a big AND, a Good painter knows that the paint has to be over the juncture of the putty and glass, so is true with the azek stops.  A film of SW Duration or Porter's Permanizer is like what I call "Liquid Caulk".

            I purposely paint onto the glass, and when razor blade clean up time, leave a seal there.

            But really, I can't see how it is any worse than failed glazing putty that often does more damage being removed..

            On these particular sash, the putty that wasn't decayed, was FIRMLY attached to the muntins, and had to be heated and chiselled out, and some wood was affected adversly in that process.

            So, take your pick..make it water tite, or fight with the glazing later.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

      2. User avater
        Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 01:59am | #7

        Here ya go..

        http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=100323.1Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

        1. rez | Feb 27, 2008 02:55am | #10

          Thanks for posting that link again. I missed it first time thru. Too big a place anymore.

           Worthy of the archive listings. Yep. 

           

          Peach full,easy feelin'.

          1. User avater
            Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 03:49am | #13

            Thank you for doing that photo thread listing so we don't all lose track.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

          2. rez | Feb 27, 2008 04:08am | #14

             

             

            be slow but sure

             

            'sure sure whatever you say' 

             

            Peach full,easy feelin'.

          3. User avater
            Sphere | Feb 27, 2008 04:13am | #15

            Ya done so good, you win a puppy.

            Ya see the latest pic?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

          4. rez | Feb 27, 2008 04:23am | #16

            Can't do a dog yet. Too crazy around here. 

             

            Peach full,easy feelin'.

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