Does anyone know about when GFCI’s where first required with 6 ft of the sink and when the code started requiring all recpts serving the counter top needed GFCI protection?
I was working in a condo built in 87 and from the looks of everything there have been no major changes (same walls, cabinets and appliances).
I was not doing electrical work, but tried to tried to use a recp on a desk in the kitchen and it was dead. Did some check and had to redo most the GFCI’s.
While the wiring looked good and there where a more than enough circuits it the kitchen was wired strangely. But it appears that was done orginally. I think that the HO later screwed up the GFCI’s. That is why I am wondering when they where added.
The kitchen has 2 L shaped sections.
One the one side there is the refigerator, then a strech of cabinets with 2 GFCI’s. They are on the same circuit as the refigerator and the 2nd GFCI was feed through the load side of the first one.
Then on the end of the L is a pensinula with the sink and a bar top overlooking a eatin kitchen area. On the end fo the bar section was another GFCI. It was feed from the dishwasher circuit. The disposal was on another circuit and I did not check what else it might have feed, but it might have been the recpts in the eat in area.
There is also a separate dinning room on another 20 amp circuit.
The other side of the kitchen had a short cabinet run with a GFCI (the first one in the circuit), then a corner cabinet with a recpt. then a short section of cabinet and then a cooktop with a double GFCI over the cook top, then double oven, and lastly a desk.
Now none of that side is wet so under the not so older code none of them would be GFCI protected and the desk area is not “counter top” (at least in my mind) so it would not need protection even under the latest code.
Anyway the first GFCI was hot, but it would not self test and the downstream was dead. I replaced it as being defective. But after openiing up the other boxes think that it was wired backwards, but I did not think to check.
That GFCI feed the plain recpt in the appliance garage. From there is went to the double box, which had two GFCI’s. The first one was wired backwards with the line connect to the load side. And the “line side” connected to the 2nd GFCI and to the desk recpt.
The desk recpt also had 2 cables. But for the life of me I could not figure out where the 2nd cable went. I even connected up a tone generator and I could find the signal at the other recepts and a few places on the other side of the wall, but it appeared that it only ran back towards the other recpts.
Replies
GFCIs were required in bathrooms and outdoors in '76, when our house was built, but not in the kitchen.
I don't have access to the relevant copies of the NEC presently but I think it was transition between the 6' rule in kitchens and the requirement to have all receptacles protected by GFCIs was the time between the '89' and '92' editions.
Thanks, that helps confirm my thoughts that this was not orginal, but that the HO added these at sometime.I wonder how long it has been long that they where living with only one functioning recpt on that side.
Isn't life with homeowners such a treat....I had to replace some gfi recps and add some undercabinet lights for a kitchen remodel, our "estimator" did a drive-by cuz when I pulled the 1st recp out it was wired with 10-2 and stuffed into a gem box, the whole kitchen was wired in 10-2, a long time ago gfi's came with a raised plate affair to add cu.in. and I could of used a couple...
Here in Ontario, Canada, no GFCIs are required for kitchen counter.
How do you split a GFCI? Or is there such an animal as a GFCI split?
You are talking about a multi-wire circuit where you run 2 hots and shared neutral. I belive that in Ontario they require each duplex receptacle to be split with feed with both legs.The only way that you can have GFCI protection on such a circuit is to use a 240 GFCI breaker.
All clear Bill, thanx.
You could run a shared neutral for the home run, from the panel to a box with two GFCI receptacles in it. Downstream from there, it's absolutely necessary to have separate neutrals to any additional protected receptacles.
The GFCI unit in the receptacle simply measures the difference between the hot and neutral currents, by an inductive pickup wrapped around the two conductors, and trips if there's a mismatch. Combining neutrals downstream would guarantee tripping every time you had loads on both sides. No danger, really. But no power, either. ;-)
Because GFCI's are more touchy and tend to trip more often than overcurrent breakers, I prefer to have them built into receptacles, and control only loads in the same room.
-- J.S.
JohnIf I understand it correctly Ontario requires EACH HALF of each recptacle to be split so that each half is on a different leg.That complicates things.Now you can could run dual 12-2 to each box and split break the tabs on both the hot and neutral. But that is even more of a mess.
> If I understand it correctly Ontario requires EACH HALF of each recptacle to be split so that each half is on a different leg.
If that's really the case, then my solution from now on will be to stay out of Ontario.... ;-)
-- J.S.
In Ontario we require on either side of the kitchen sink either split receptacles with two pole GFCI breakers or a 20amp duplex with a single pole GFCI breaker.
I would check the code again because in the Ontario Code as of January 1, 2003 Rule (26-700(12)???) the split receptacles on each side of the kitchen sink (within 1m)must be protected with a GFCI circuit breaker. Unfortunately a two-pole GFCI breaker costs about $150 so apparently the electrician work around is to install a 20amp duplex in each side of the sink and supply each one with a separate single pole 20amp GFCI breaker.
I first started using GFCIs in kitchens in 1988. I can't remember when it was code required. I know what you mean about the Line and Load thing. I've seen more than 1 HO would be electrician replace a faulty GFCI recptical and reverse them.
FWIW, I have my electrician dedicate the DW, disposer, fridge, microwave, and any specialty appliance circuits in my houses. Depending on size, 1 or 2 20amp circuits in dinning room. We still run into situations where there is a conflict on the recpticals at the ends of peninsulas from time to time.
k
1974 NEC: GFCI protection required for all exterior receptacles.
1978 NEC: GFCI protection required for all bathrooms.
1980 NEC: GFCI protection required for in all garages.
1984 NEC: GFCI protection required whenever receptacles are located within 6 feet of water.
1986 NEC: GFCI protection required in unfinished basements.
1996 NEC: GFCI protection required at all kitchen counter receptacles.
2000 NEC: GFCI protection required for all crawl space receptacles
2000 NEC: GFCI protection required for all receptacles serving a countertop and within 6’ of a wet bar sink
2005 NEC....GFCI everything??????
OOOOh I forgot, arc fault too.....
And then we have spas,whirlpools,niche lighting,fountains, built-in electric butt flossers, the sidewalks out in front of the Bellagio...