Anybody have any experience with the Hitatchi jobsite table saw?
I’m looking for a new portable TS and it must be able to take a full-sized dado head (13/16″). That leaves out the DeWalts and the Maks. I think it also leaves out the Bosch 4100, as I looked at one of those yesterday and there was only about 3/8″ of blade arbour sticking out beyond the nut with the standard single blade mounted.
Any other suggestions? I’ve never owned a Hitatchi tool, and don’t know squat about ’em.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Replies
A full-sized dado head takes a bit more power than the vast majority of "portable" tablesaws have.
Regardless of the length of the arbor, or the size of the throat opening, I'd be concerned about burning up a motor.
the 4100 takes a full sized dado cutter...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
and that one is a light wieght compared to the Bosch...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks, bro.That's good to know.
I know you like Bosch (so do I), but what I saw in the store didn't look like it would take both blades and all the chippers.
Now all I gotta do is convince the dummy at the local big box that I do not want the overpriced, overweight 'gravity-rise' stand, just the saw. ("But, but, but, you have to buy the stand; it comes with the saw!")(No, it doesn't, unless you order it that way....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
not all of the Bosch products...
you can squeeze a micro more than 13/16"...
ditto on the stand... see if ya can get the lesser fold open stan...
or go on line and get what ya want...
do yurself a favor and get the table extensions...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I have used it.
When running, sounds/feels like it's gonna fall apart. Scares me.
The fence sucks- won't clamp straight/parallel on its own.
Underpowered, IMHO.
When running, sounds/feels like it's gonna fall apart. The fence sucks- won't clamp straight/parallel on its own. Underpowered, IMHO.
Thanks; that description sounds like the $200 Mastercräp I've been (ab)using for the past 10 years. Gotta give the thing credit, tho; for the amount of abuse it's taken getting tossed in and outta the truck, run in the rain, used as a workbench, etc., it's more than earned back its purchase price. But it won' take more than two blades, and only has 2.5 ponies. Bogs down and stalls while ripping at full blade extension.
But the Hitatchi would cost me six bills; I would expect a lot more than Mastercräp performance for that kinda dough.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The new little Dewalt 745 will run a full 13/16" dado. Just read a post about that last week at JLC (see below). I think the old model could run a 1/2" but don't believe it was actually recommended by DW. The new model is the one with the split blade guard/riving knife setup like the Bosch 4100.
In the owner's manual of my new (bought yesterday) 745
1) Max 8" dado set
2) 13/16" max cut width
3) Use outer washer as inner washer, only lockdown nut on outside
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in a word loud!
The new little Dewalt 745 will run a full 13/16" dado. Just read a post about that last week at JLC (see below). I think the old model could run a 1/2" but don't believe it was actually recommended by DW. The new model is the one with the split blade guard/riving knife setup like the Bosch 4100.
Okay, thanks, Steve. That info will send me back to the other big-box store in town tomorrow morning to see which version of the 745 they have on the floor. DeWalt's website is showing a 'type 1' and 'type 2' for the 745 'table saw'. One of these (don't yet know which one; the pages take over 5 minutes to load, yawn...) won't take a dado head.
IIRC, the DW 745 costs about 4 bills and the Bosch 4100 (with stand) about 8. I dunno yet how much the Bosch goes for w/o the stand, or if I can even get one without special-ordering it that way (which is a deal-breaker; if I buy one at all, I need it before 8am tomorrow).
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
8 bills....
they can't be serious...
try 5 with the stand...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
$795.00 plus 15% combined fed/provincial sales taxes.
Make that 9 bills...and change.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
that ignorant...
why so much???
can ya get by with a router and straight edge for a few days???
http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=4100
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Problem with that is two-fold:
1. There's the US/CAN $$ exchange, which right now isn't favourable to me. Add about 20% to a US$ price to find out how many C$ it would cost me to buy that many US$.
2. The Bosch is made in Germany. Germany is not a signatory of NAFTA, so it would be subject to import duties if I bought one on-line from a US seller and had it shipped up here. Which would be just plain stupid of me, because the US seller has already paid US import duties when it was shipped in from Germany...and is certainly charging buyers for those in his price.
There's also shipping, of course.
Give you an example: Couple of weeks ago I ordered a copper chimney chase cover from See You; the shipping, dollar-conversion, sales taxes, and freight-forwarding fees came to more than the cost of the chase. In that specific case, it was worth it...because no one local could provide the same product. But this isn't often the case.
The ridiculously high prices we pay for non-Canadian-made tools, trucks, etc., up here are very carefully calculated to be just a teensy, tiny bit less than what it would cost to buy it on-line from the States and then pay all the duties, sales taxes, and shipping charges.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
all 4 of the saws I have are made here in America...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I thought some more about the Bosch yesterday, and didn't go for it. The main reason was the price, but also the physical size. I'm running a 6½'-bed truck since the Old Blue Lady died, so I don't have all the room back there I used to.
So yesterday night I brought the railing pieces home and took 'em down into the shop and set up the dado head on my old Delta-Milwaukee...and found out that old 7A motor can't take 13/16 x 1/2 out in one pass at anything over 1 foot per minute. Took me three hours to machine the 16 rails, and the motor was so hot I couldn't touch it. I felt bad; I've done a lotta beautiful work on that saw, but last night I was pushing it way beyond anything it was intended for, and it is, after all, damn near 60 years old. Like me. But I babied it, and we got er done....
Last time, though. That saw has earned a the right to kick the heavy stuff over to some gnarly, noisy young'un, so I bought the DW745 tonight. Walked into the yard to get some 6/4 cedar and they'd just received two of the new version (Type 2) that Steve posted about. $399 + tx. and they didn't make me buy a stand I don't want.
Tool buyer in the store didn't even know they'd come in, nor that these are the 'new' version. For that matter, neither did the first CS rep I spoke to at DeWalt when I called their 800 number right from the store to make damn sure this was the model Steve wrote about. I hadda insult my way up the line to get somebody on the phone who actually knew the tool, and wasn't just reading off the computer screen.
Turns out the only place on the 745 where the 'type' info is printed is on the main warning label on the front of the saw. In little teeny, tiny type, too. You gotta open up the box and take it out and unwrap it to know if you're getting a type 1 or a type 2. Duh....
Also turns out that despite what DeWalt claims, this saw will not take a full 13/16 dado head, but runs outta arbor at 11/16, and that's if ya don't use the outer washer, as Steve mentioned.
I can get by with an eighth less dado altho it'd be nice to be able to cut a 3/4 slot in one pass. Anyway, the thing is in the truck, and I've got 90 days to decide if I really like it. So far, so good. And I found out today I gotta rebuild the front of the verandah on this 'paint' job, so it'll have a chance to show what it can do....
Anybody need a decent 2.5hp Mastercraft for medium-duty work? $75. $50 if ya ask nice and throw in a few cans o' Guinness....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
why didn't you do that with a router???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
why didn't you do that with a router???
Huh. 1-3/8" x 1/2" deep dado with a router? You're talkin' multiple passes in both dimensions, methinks. Widest bit I've got is 3/4"; that means minimum two passes laterally. And yeah maybe I could force it to cut a half-inch deep in one pass but the bit'd burn and maybe even bend the shaft. I've seen it happen. More likely I'd have to take four passes on each piece; two laterally at 1/4" deep, then another two to get down to 1/2".
Woulda taken even longer than with my Dad's old cabinet saw; betcha. OTOH, that new DW coulda done it in two passes (laterally) as fast as I could push the wood through it, without even slowing the blades down. It ain't gonna replace the engine in the truck, but it's got a lot more beef than its size indicates.
Yesterday I built two sets of flat-panel boxes for the bottom of that verandah to replace the rotted ones. Took a 2-3/4" x 7º bevel off the face of a 2x10 to make a sloped sill for the bottom of the units; took 5/8" x 7/16 dadoes outta all four sides in one pass, too. Saw wasn't even breathing hard.
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Too bad I didn't have it two days ago, but now I do.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
up spiral bit....
serious router...
modified offset shooting board.. in this case an offset shooting base...
two passes....
one up .. one back....
save a ton of bucks...
next...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Keep us posted on how you like the saw. I'm still interested in picking one up at some point, mostly because it's the only one that might fit under my bed.Sorry to hear Dewalt remains as clueless on the phone as they were 6 months ago. I swear it was like a Marx bros. routine. I'd be looking at photos of it and they'd insist it didn't really exist. "Who are you going to believe, me or your own two eyes?"'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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I thought you'd already bought one, Steve. I like it. Think you will too, unless you want something instead of a big cabinet saw. This is a great job-site portable with all the ponies you should expect for the price; but the table is too small for shop work. 16" max rip to the right of the blade; less to the left. No provision for extensions. You want more width, you gotta buy the 744....
Changing blades is a minor pain if you've got big mitts; there's not a lotta room in the throat opening, and that dust-collector chute is only a coupla inches wide. If you drop the nut, washer, or blade trying to get it outta there, you gotta squeeze yer hand down into the chute, or take three wingnuts off to remove the side of the chute.
As I said, the arbor will take 11/16 worth of dado blades and chippers, and you can't use the blade washer if you stack all that on. DW is claiming it'll take 13/16, but they must be using smaller 16ths than we are up here....
The rack-and-pinion set up for the fence rails is neat; works well and is quick to set 'cause you can just open the clamp and shove the fence to where you want it, then fine-tune with the hand-wheel. I like less the free-swinging bevel adjustment; no gear wheel to fine-tune the angle so you gotta do it with yer thumbs. It's fast, tho.
Fence itself is a little tinny; but it holds well. I'll probably screw a 4' piece of something straight to the face of it anyway; but that means drilling it as DeWalt did not see fit to machine holes in the fence for an auxiliary/sacrificial wooden fence facing....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You do know that when ripping on a TS any fence aft of the center of the arbor is superfluous and even more dangerous w/out a splitter?
Matey, that may be so, but when yer horsing 14-foot 2x10 across a little teeny table all by yer lonesome, it's nice to have a long enough fence to keep the stock from slewing around all over Hell's half-acre....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
There is a splitter on that TS that he's using. Actually it's a riving knife.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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That helps a lot. I got spoiled using the Delta Uni-fence for ripping, you could slide it back ( and they even supply a shorter fence) for ripping.
Then again, lumber like he's talking, I'd use a circ saw to rip over size ( allow for warp) and trim down with the TS. I always try to push the lighter of the two (G).
Diff. habits.
There is a splitter on that TS that he's using. Actually it's a riving knife.
Actually, the riving knife--along with the fancy split blade guard and anti-kickback pawls--is in the big yellow box down in my basement...just in case I decide I wanna return the saw (which I don't think I'm gonna). First thing I did on unpacking the saw was remove all that junk and toss it back in the box where it will stay until I throw the box out...with that stuff in it.
Problem with blade guards is you can't see where the damn blade is. Problem with anti-kickback pawls is they scratch the wood. Problem with a riving knife is you can't use it for anything but what DeWalt calls 'through cutting'. You have to remove it (or lower it; DW made theirs adjustable) anytime you want to cut dadoes or rabbets or anything where the blade doesn't cut through the whole thickness of the wood.
I'm gonna spend my time putting it on and taking it off and putting it back on again? At what I charge per hour?
I don't think so, Josephine....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Thanks TH,I had one, but it arrived with a broken part. I knew that the new model was coming out and being fond of my fingers thought I'd exchange the one I had for the one with a guard that actually looks useful. But Dewalt couldn't give me any info on when that might hit the market and I finally sent the whole thing back.Still want one, though. I've got a couple of guide rails so I can knock down full sheets with those. Liked that rack & pinion set up a lot, too.Much as I might like a cabinet saw, that's a non-starter. I'd have to lug it up 2 flights of stairs from the street and then find a place for it. Maybe when they make a version that converts to a dining table in the evening :)'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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--"This is a great job-site portable with all the ponies you should expect for the price; but the table is too small for shop work. 16" max rip to the right of the blade; less to the left. No provision for extensions. You want more width, you gotta buy the 744....Fence itself is a little tinny; but it holds well. I'll probably screw a 4' piece of something straight to the face of it anyway; but that means drilling it as DeWalt did not see fit to machine holes in the fence for an auxiliary/sacrificial wooden fence facing...."I have the original DW 745 and it has been more reliable than the Bosch 4000 (bad bearings and electronics, etc.).I love how small it is for small jobs and for big jobs I use it in a Rousseau table with outfeed... then I can do wide rips, etc. The Rousseau fence is robust too.DW 745 and Rousseau... best of both worlds.
Interesting. Jet had a problem with his Bosch TS where the bearings burned out--due, he thought, to someone forcing wood over a blunt blade--and which then caused the motor itself to fail. Just after the warranty expired, of course.
I have a constitutional leeriness in regard to 'soft-start' electronics anyway; electronics controlling heavy electrics always seems to me to be a deliberate flouting of the K.I.S.S. principle. Take chairlifts at ski resorts: The old fixed-chair lifts were controlled by relays so big you felt the 'thunk!' in the floor of the operator's cabin when you hit the switch...and they almost never broke down (and when they do, it is usually something mechanical). The new detatchable, high-speed quads are all software controlled and use touch-screens with circuit maps and menus and all that jazz...and they often break down or just go goofy two or three times a day.
I've never seen that Rousseau table before; not a bad looking unit. Would be very useful for big kitchen jobs where I've gotta fabricate the cabs on site. Of course, what I really want is a panel saw. And a bigger shop in which to keep it. And a Dually and a 24' tool-trailer to haul it around. And.... (Dream on, Dinosaur....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The Rousseau setup rocks.The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern
I take pretty good care of my tools, but I regularly had problems with the Bosch 4000 TS. I liked the saw very much... when it worked. I always kept a sharp blade in mine and did not do too much heavy ripping and still fried the bearings and electric components twice. Also had problems with the plastic base cracking and chipping in the cold.I used the Rousseau table to assemble A&C casings and backbanding today and that is just a bonus... it really shines for jobsite TS use:
I always kept a sharp blade in mine and did not do too much heavy ripping and still fried the bearings and electric components twice.
A jobsite table saw that won't do heavy ripping is a waste of space. That's the primary use for a TS for most builders. Can't imagine what the heck Bosch was thinking....
I like Bosch tools in general; they've always had a reputation for toughness and no compromises, and the Deep Blue tools I've already got live up to that in spades (a Bulldog and a really tough little 9v impactor). But after hearing from both you and Jet I'm pretty glad I didn't shell out the big bucks for the Bosch TS. Nothing fries my day like a tool that won't work when I'm counting on it....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Please do fill us in on how you like the saw once you have had it a bit. Still not sure how your price for the Bosch turned up so high. I bought one for less than $600 at HD here in BC. The Rigid was right in there too.
Edited 7/8/2009 7:23 pm ET by fingersandtoes
See the last line of the specifications; Bosch may be a German company, but the 4100 table saws are made in Taiwan.Specifications * Model Number 4100-09
* Amperage 15.0
* No Load RPM 3,650
* Blade Diameter 10″
* Arbor Size 5/8″
* Weight (lbs.) Table Saw 60 lbs. (with Stand 99 lbs.)
* Bevel Angle Range -2° to 47°
* UPC Code 00346341539
* Engineering Number 0604B13110
* Dimensions 39.13 x 30 x 20.9
* Max. Motor HP 4.0
* Category Table Saws
* Width Table Top dimensions 29″
* Country Origin Taiwan
I sure would like to know how
they get 4hp out of 15amps.
here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Thanks, but all I get is an empty wordpad doc. Or is that the joke? I have the saw and it is plenty strong, but 4hp? I think not.
hmmmmmmmmmmm....
that wasn't a joke....
let me look again....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
dunno what happen to the doc....
but....
here, this should really confuse you....
tool horsepower ratings...
I'll keep searching for the original...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I have the old bosch 4000 and it takes the full 13/16 dado, yo just gotta leave the arbor washer off. Just to be clear it does state in the manual that this is the dado capacity of the saw. I've seen the 4100, and as far as i can see the only REAL difference is the riving knife guard system. I just modded mine with a grinder like Gary Katz. I'm sure you'll be able to find a good deal on this saw as retailers make room for the 4100's. Great saw.
the capacities of the Bosch have it all over the DW...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I think you are paying to much, even in Canada. Home Depot's Canadian website lists the Bosch 4100 at $649 Cdn plus taxes. Typical price in Calgary.
Not a big savings, but Rona has a $100 savings coupon in their Rona Gift Card book if you purchase $1000 of Bosch products. Good to August 31. Or find someone over 55 yr old and get 10% off first Tuesday each month at Rona. Not sure if that works in Quebec.
Home Depot had at least two gift card promotions in the past 12 months on power tools. Not much good if you needed the saw yesterday. But I paid $649 Cdn plus taxes and received a $150 Cdn gift card from Home Depot on the Bosch 4100 in Calgary, Alberta.
No worries. The new one looks like this.
You may have to hunt around for it. I ordered one back in Dec expecting that since the new version was out in the magazines, that's what was in stock. Nope. And Dewalt was darn clueless. 'We have one of those?'
I know it's out, though, since I finally saw it in the flesh at JLC live. If you want portability, that roll cage aspect really makes it easy to tote around. For what it's worth, they have a new rolling stand that looks kind of neat, too.
You can get the Bosch 4100 here for $449 new or $429 reconditioned.
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The stand is very tippy.
Just gonna add after the fact, you might wanna invest in a wobble or twin blade dado head. They ( Freud at least) can make flatter bottom dadoes now.
Even so, with the old styles of wobblers, the slight crown in the bottom was rarely an issue, and if it was either a router or plow plane was an easy fix.
As far as the comment " for what you charge , messing with a guard or riving knife is not an option" ( not a direct quote) I gotta just shake my head at that. I can't draw a conclusion of what you are trying to say, either you disregard your safty because you charge too mch in your mind, or you admit it's a short cut away from proper technique and quality of work and yet you still demand top dollar, while you risk leaving a customer waiting for your fingers to be reattached and thier job is on hold.
If you charged less, would you wear safty glasses? after all, if they fog up, you gotta stop and clean them on thier dime..?????
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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Well, bro, I assume you heard the 'click!' when you pushed that button, LOL....
'SAFETY GEAR' RANT #27-b (short version):
In all the years (many) I've been using table saws I've never until now owned or even used one which was equipped with a riving knife. And I can guarantee I have never even seen a portable TS on a job site equipped with riving knife or guard or kick-back pawls. Just because the lawyers--uh, excuse me, 'Liability Abatement Engineers'--who run DeWalt's product design department insist on putting this stuff on their tools to keep their tender white corporate arses out of the meat grinder doesn't mean I need it to keep my fingers outta the sawblade.
Question: If a riving knife is so blinkin' essential, why aren't circ's equipped with them? or Radial arms?
For that matter, why should my fingers/gut/ugly face suddenly be in more danger than before, just because this new saw came with a riving knife? Does a riving knife replace some other 'safety feature' that was not visible on the saws of yore?
Well, maybe. Maybe that invisible 'safety feature' that is now missing was a good healthy dose of respect for the tools' ability to chew up careless operators...and the knowledge that there was nothing between you and it but your skill and your common sense.
IMNSHO, no piece of 'safety' hardware can or should attempt to replace that.
End of the short version. For the full-length screed, push the button twice more and stand waaaaay back.... <G>
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I guess I'm saying that if the riving knife or splitter ( the hell with a fake guard for this conversation) was easily lowered or lowered with the blade, I'd use it. Ripping a plank and getting that pinch or bind from reaction wood, is both a PITA and dangerous, it also can ruin the work piece.
My understanding is that the newer and euro saws are much better than what we began with in the dark ages, and IIRC Festool's Circ saw does have a riving knife or splitter. A radial is mostly used for cross cutting, so that is a moot point.
So, if the saw is so equipped and it works as designed, it matters not how much you charge per hour to use it and be both safe and not have all sorts of saw teeth tracks in your finished work from a board that decided to close up the kerf..I mean, you need time to deal with that, so why not avoid it in the first place?
How many times have I reached over a spinning blade to jam a screwdriver or chisel to keep a kerf open? Too many. BTDT
Your call. take it or leave it, I ain't kicking sand at you, just observing and commenting on the "what I'm charging.." part of your post. You also paid for those parts in the box, thats money wasted too.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Edited 7/11/2009 2:31 pm ET by Sphere
Okay, the '...at what I'm charging' wisecrack was maybe unnecessary, but I've had an HO on site all week watching me work (normally I don't, so I'm not real used to that) and the experience has re-sensitised me perhaps overmuch to how little most HOs understand about what yer doing for them when yer not actually making noise and sawdust. Mrs. HO (a very nice lady, BTW) commented gently last week that she got worried about her bill everytime she saw me 'get out that pencil of yours and start figuring on your pad.'
What I was doing was calculating the exact cut lengths and angles for balusters which dado/rabbet into the handrails and bottom rails. Since there are over 350 of them, it behooved me to be very sure of my figgering before I started cutting. (Those cedar balusters ain't cheap; it was like cutting $5 bills.)
But she didn't know that; all she saw was me bent over the tailgate of the truck doodling on a pad for about 5 minutes...while 15 feet behind me stood a large pile of expensive wood to which I shoulda been doing stuff to make new railings for her upper deck.
I can only imagine what she was thinking two days later when I had to install the dado head on the new saw to cut eight dadoes. Changing blades twice took three times as long as actually cutting the dadoes. If I'd had to mess about with a riving knife and blade guard and all the rest of it too, well....
To be fair, the DeWalt setup for the riving knife isn't that bad--it is mounted on the blade/motor carriage so it rises and falls with the blade, and the real engineers over there came up with a way to make it removable or 'droppable' by reaching down into the saw wif the tips of yer fingers and loosening a not-real-big tri-winged nut. But even so, diddling with the thing adds another coupla minutes of silence everytime you need to do it, and I've got a constitutional disinclination to tolerate happily anything unnecessary that gets in the way of me producing.
Oh, yeh--the kerf closing up? I toss boards that'll do that in the reject pile unless I'm real hard pressed....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Just a heads up, Busy Bee has that saw on sale until August for $299. I took a printout from their website into Rona and got another 10% off.
Damn. I bought mine from the local Rona for $399 less the contractor's discount.
I could be a real baddy and threaten to return the saw under the 90-day no-questions-asked guarantee unless they cut me another whack o' $ off....
Wait--are you certain the one Busy Bee is discounting is the Type 2? The photo on their website shows the Type 1 blade guard. Maybe they're trying to off the older type quick to make room for the New & Improved Version....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I bought the 745 not sure about type 1 or 2. Take the receipt into the store....they have a 30 day price match policy.
not sure about type 1 or 2
Take a look at the English warning label on the front panel of the saw. In little tiny print it starts off by identifying the model # and type #.
You're telling me Rona has a 30-day price-match policy in Ontario? Hmmm. I ought to check to see if it applies here, and if it applies to on-line 'stores'.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"Mrs. HO (a very nice lady, BTW) commented gently last week that she got worried about her bill everytime she saw me 'get out that pencil of yours and start figuring on your pad.' "
AAhhhh! Nice or not tell her to go out for a while.
Last year while installing a metal roof I had a guy complain that I spent all my time looking over at his wife in their hot tub (she should be so lucky!) and that I would have been finished if I hadn't spent so much time sitting behind the chimney. I guess he didn't understand it takes about as much time to flash the masonry as it does to throw on most of the rest of the roof.
LOL.
But that's not the situation here. These are old clients who have had me do a substantial amount of work for them over the years and I know them well. It's just that they usually aren't in the chalet when I'm working on it and this time, because the *&$%$&?%*(!!!****%$%$# weather has put me two weeks behind schedule, they are there all last week and this week--it's their annual summer vacation.
Today I spent scraping three layers of mystery paint off the siding...in the rain. Wearing full foul-weather gear. Only came down off the scaffolding when the lightning flashes got within 5 miles. I have to get this done this week...and I ain't gonna. Only one day of painting weather in the forecast, dammit.
Plus, towards the end of the day, I found that the bottom of about thirty feet of that siding is rotting out from behind. The furring strip behind it started falling out in big, black chunks when I whacked it with a scrub brush to get the mud splashes off. Ooooops. Doesn't seem to have affected the plates and framing, but I think the sheathing got some. And there's a buncha ant 'puke' back there, too. Have to open it up to see, and that's the bitch.
No way do either of us want me to have to pull all that siding (two storey house sided vertically); I suggested cutting off the bottom 8 inches of the siding and replacing it with a nice 5/4 cedar foot-board. I'll paint it green to match the rest of the trim and it'll look quite good, actually. They'll think about that and let me know in the morning.
But that's the way this 'paint' job has been going--rot and problems everywhere--so it's understandable that she gets a little worried when she sees me scratching my head for a few minutes....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You have my sympathies about the weather. All of my Montreal friends are howling. Hopefully you get a good August and September to make up. There is nothing like a sunny crisp Quebec fall day. Picking apples in the Eastern Townships.
You have my sympathies about the weather. All of my Montreal friends are howling.
Actually got a full day without rain today, and the sun even came out long enough to persuade me to take off three of the the four layers (tank-top; LS tee; flannel shirt; and vest) I wore leaving the house at 7am (temp outside was 9º). Woulda got the front of the house painted, too, if when I cut off the bottom 6" of siding to replace the rotted furring strip under it (found that while I was scraping the siding) I hadn't found that the Black Joe and the mud sill were also toast. Spent until lunch chopping rot outta the sill plate and then poisoned the hell outta what's left. Which ain't a lot in some spots. Rot went 1½" deep into that sill in about three places, and got up into the rim joist in a few spots, too. Told the HO if the gyprock on that wall starts cracking or if the windows in it get difficult to open to call me immediately, and we'll put a support beam in the crawl space just inside that wall. I just barely found this in time; another year and it woulda been 'Jack up the house, Jack....'
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These pix were taken before I chopped out the rot in the mudsill. All that crud you see on the ground used to be the 1x3 strapping. That just fell apart by itself when I pulled the siding off.
Tomorrow I'm gonna fill the voids in the mudsill with hydraulic concrete, then glue some new Black Joe and furring over it. The siding I cut off will be replaced with a cedar 2x6 footer board. And in the fall I'm gonna dig an 18"-widex 6" deep gravel gutter and build a small retaining wall to keep the small hill above that area from sliding down onto the house again. (That's what caused the rot in the first place; bottom 3" of the wood had been buried for years....)
This is supposed to be a paint job, dammit, but it's turning into one of those 'save the house' projects. Here's hoping for the 40% chance of clouds w/sunny breaks instead of the 60% chance of showers and T-storms tomorrow. I got the primer on today so if it doesn't rain, I could actually get one whole wall painted tomorrow....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Wow. What a mess. It's one thing to know before hand that things are that bad, but to uncover it on a painting job... I feel bad for you and the owners.
This is just the latest. If it weren't such a pretty house, I'd be mentally dubbing it Chateau Pourri ('House of Rot').
The upper deck railings we all knew about going in; demo and replace w/new is in the estimate/contract (pix of those are in the thread 'Guaranteed for HOW many years?'). The ground-level verandah front we didn't twig on until we started scraping them: thought the paint was just real bad but two licks with a scraper and the wood vanished. (Those are the pix earlier in this thread.)
And of course the completely rotted-out chimney chase we discovered while redoing the roof last month ('Rot Never Sleeps').
I haven't mentioned all the usual small stuff one finds on a paint job: a couple of column-wrappers gone (no caulking on the head moulding); wonky bottoms of casing on doors/windows...we expect that.
But not all this.
I'm okay with it--building new railings and mullion fronts and stuff is more interesting work than painting anyway--and I charge by the hour so I won't lose money. But I truly feel badly for the HO--it's gonna damn near double his bill by the time we're done--and on top of that it's putting me so far behind I'm gonna have to blow off two jobs till the last week of August that I wanted to do this week and next.
Not that I'm complaining about having too much work! (Sure wasn't like this last year....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 7/15/2009 10:04 pm ET by Dinosaur
Hey Dino, fwiw that saw I bought is a type 1. I was in HD last week and see they have only a type 1 also. Not sure as to the difference?
The visible difference is the blade guard. The Type 2 comes with a split blade guard similar to the one on the big Bosch; the Type 1 has a standard one-piece guard.
But, for my purposes, the important difference is that the arbor on the Type 2 will take 11/16" worth of dado blades and chippers whereas the Type 1 will not.
I don't know if there are any other unseen differences; possibly the motor on the 2 is stronger--that would seem logical 'cuz you need a bit more ooomph to drive a dado head. But I'm just guessing; only DeWalt knows for sure, and from what Fat Roman and I have both experienced, only a few people at DeWalt actually know the type 2 even exists!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 7/19/2009 10:21 pm ET by Dinosaur
Haven't seen you pop up here lately.
Hope things are well. How's the saw treating you by now?
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We've been in the States since the 7th and just got back this evening. NYC for a Bway show then Ohio for a bit of busman's holiday, helping my sis paint her house.
The new saw was great; did everything I expected.
While in the States I picked up an eee notebook and am presently wondering when (if ever) somebody is gonna set up a WIFY network near enough to my house to latch on to. I got it to work in a restaurant this morning in upstate NY but here at home there's nothing. In the meantime I got a dial-up modem so I can plug it in but I've gotta load the driver onto a thumb drive before I can install it. Salesman said this notebook thingy is just like a full sized laptop without an optical drive. I guess I'm gonna find out....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....