I find the show entertaining even though for the most part it’s alot of grandstanding and platitudes coming from a guy who gets to perform work under arrangements no one else will experience (coming in the hero with cameras, virtually no budget constraints).
That aside, I just wince every time he or one of his guys throws up a level against a wall and looking at the plumb vial, exclaims, “Now, that’s LEVEL!”
Is this a Canadian thing or does it drive anyone else crazy?
Replies
I think that a lot of people use it for a generic term; like using Jello for gelatine, the main problem is a lot of people can't get it right reguardless of what they call it! ;)
Drives me nuts too. I want to shout at the TV, "It's PLUMB Fool!!!".
yup
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I just noticed that in a recent episode too... its a nitpicky thing, I've caught some of the guys on Hometime making fun of each other for saying "level" when they mean "plumb".
Still, Holmes on Holmes is a better show than TOH, as far as I'm concerned. You see a lot more actual "work" in each show, instead of TOH where they talk about stuff, and throw in other useless details like decorating (well, useless to me anyway!).
It's my new favorite show. I may hate it soon but for now I really like it. Unfortunately my wife cannot stand it but will watch Home Virgins all hours of the day. He's like This Old House but with more attitude. I find it quite informative actually."But wouldn't a well-equipped contractor set up the laser level and do it all in one shot?"On a show where he was doing a huge "finished" garage he used his laser level like a crack addict, he definitely owns one :)
Maybe he's color-blind.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
guilty to growling 'plumb' at the tv. He does have valid points in his rants, but I did also holler that he was going all 'TOH' on the project; sorry, tearing out a basement bathroom floor does not equate gutting the third floor for wiring.....
Level, open concept and neo angle.Drink, drink, drink. You couldn't make the hour even with commercials.He has a new show now on up here, called Holmes Inspection.Same, same, just modified in that it is a recent buyer who had an inspection and oh, look what the inspector missed!!!He has better toys and they got a high speed camera too so lots of construction ####, like super slow mo of a bit breaking through a 2x and stuff. Plus his crew does all the work, he just pops in and consults.
Structure. Load. Minimum code. Nobody on that show knows how to pound a nail. I think he surrounds himself with a bunch of ding dongs, just to prove(to himself mostly) how smart he is.It's not too late, it's never too late.
Yeah, I saw an episode where he was helping some people in California, and was complaining about using nails to frame.
Most of the time I see him using screws for framing. But at least they look like GRKs.
Oh, and that little blond cutie he has working for him is pretty nice. Between her, and the girl on MythBusters, TVs getting better <G>
I know this is nitpicking. He does good work overall.
That poor girl! Mike Holmes obviously doesn't pay her enough. She seems to have grown out of her T-shirts and can't afford new ones.
I am Canadian!!!!! Love it here.
The show is a show and they got to do things to make a show. Do not watch it much, Caught one where a bay window (Yes a bay not a bow. lol) was incorrectly installed, when he was done they redid wiring in the basement for some reason or other and did another window for some little reason. I would love to do every job to the max, Usually my customers are on a budget and we have to work in that budget.I always mess up terms, today I called a pick a sledge hammer. Plus the same thing has different names. Have a new helper and it really messes him up. (Drywalll, sheetrock, rock, wallboard)
There is sure no percentage in being a piece of drywall when he is around. You get done in to see what you might be hiding, or even just to check how well you are attached. That guy may well turn out to have been responsible for more drywall hitting the landfills than the Chinese.
hey, hey, hey!
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with those tee shirts.
<G>
First the weed, now the tee shirts. You and I are going to talk our way into trouble.
Nah. We're not talking religion or politics.We should be OK.
Plus I'm on good terms with at least one moderator.<G>
I wonder who pays for all the work...Can't just be on the production's dime, eh?
They had a answer to your question a long while back when they had someone from their production company explain that they picked (I think 6) projects that they were going to film and the whole cost was covered by the show,
"If all else fails, read the directions"
While I usually like the show, and find it more realistic than TOH these days...
him calling something level that's really plumb drives me crazy. I do yell at the TV when he does that.
Thank you, I feel validated.
Next - the Holmes on Homes drinking game: Everytime he says "open concept" you take a shot. You'll be drunk half way through an episode.
>>.... drinking game .... << I'm in. Plus we can all play from the safety or the couch...
Seriously though, maybe the producers feel the concept of plumb would be over the head of their target audience.
Feel the same way as you, about the plumb -- level issue.
But calling some thing 20 foot instead of 20 feet is just as bad....eh.
Fun is Good
But calling some thing 20 foot instead of 20 feet is just as bad....eh.that like calling it a cement truck or cement finishers, eh
cement truck and cement finishers.
We've always said. "Call the plant", "The truck should be here soon", and "the mud is here".
Then, there's "the pump guy"
And, of course... "where's the #### finishers, the $hit isn't getting down by itself"
but never, never, "cement" unless I'm buying bags of portland
Yup, level is for side to side. The word for up and down is Plumb. A guy who comes around claiming to be doing it right should be able to take all the nitpicking we can throw at him. His show, though, is the best thing currently out there for real world work and high quality results.
A couple other nitpicks. I remember seeing him turning a big nut once, using a pipe wrench. Yecch. If you're gonna put it on TV, go get the right tool. He was leveling up a long beam in a basement, going along just using an ordinary 4 ft. bubble level. OK, you can make that work.... But wouldn't a well-equipped contractor set up the laser level and do it all in one shot?
-- J.S.
Is John Sprung2 the same as the old one?
How's that new house you bought?
Did you ever finish up the apartment building you were renoing?
Still have those beams I picked up from you, moved then twice now.
Joe H
He did a basement redo this week.
At the end they let drop it cost $100,000 all seeming in the 2 weeks the owners were away??
> Is John Sprung2 the same as the old one?
Yup, just a little worse for wear. I had a disc rupture in my neck back in February, had the C6-C7 vertebrae fused, but still have some numbness in my right hand, and part of the triceps muscle has no control, so it atrophied.
> How's that new house you bought?
It's OK, it's just an ordinary 1981 house in the valley.
> Did you ever finish up the apartment building you were renoing?
No, we've finally got a deal to sell it. We're in escrow, and have cashed the $25K non-refundable deposit check, so it looks like it should close. We'll know by December. Of course, in the interim the price dropped from $890K to $520K. So, I'll still have a mortgage to pay, but it won't be the killer it's been for the last three years.
-- J.S.
My local channel just started carrying the show. While I don't know what's staged or not I find it fascinating. Saw my first episodes last weekend.
Homeowner complained about smelly basement. Holmes comes in, finds unglued drains leaking onto floor. Mega mold under flooring.
Starts digging around. 18 hidden junction boxes in a small room, maybe 8 x 12. Fact can be stranger than fiction...Who could make this shid up?
A prima donna, sure, but geez...
Todd
I agree with your comments. It is horrifying to see what some contractors (whatever their trade) have done. They either have no conscience or talent, or both.
>>>Is this a Canadian thing or does it drive anyone else crazy?
Nope and Yup.
Plumb, Level, Square, Flush....
They all get mixed up by some folks.
Scott.
First off, thanks for the thread. A periodic Holmes bashing always perks me up. My current favorite of his is "that's a structured wall". For an enjoyable hour well spent use the advanced search and read some of the old discussions where people really get onto him.
my favorite, "It right in front of your eyes"
>>>A periodic Holmes bashing always perks me up.hahahahaha.....
Well, I did title the thread "nitpicking", which in this case is good natured ribbing and curiosity.
I watch it when I can catch it, but ever since they changed the programming of the channel he used to be broadcast on to "Planet Green" or some cr*p it is only shown now and again on TLC, if I remember right.
I just have a thing about imprecise terminology, especially coming from experts. The same thing applies to that guy who does the Take Home Handyman. I don't think that spokesmodel can really do much of anything unassisted.
As for the level part, I was "learned" it was level when it ment plumb. But, then I was re-edjurcdate at a later time.
As for what he does, he does try to hit it home about the sins that go on in the indusrty, licensed and un-licensed.
Give him credit, he educates the average home owner, does "charity", and hopefully makes a few bucks for his retirement. How many can beat that?
BTW, he does circles around Norn, or the other HGTV wanna be. (too funny, I forgot the wanna'be's name!)
BTW, he does circles around Norn
That may be but he couldn't carry a hammer for Tommy Silva.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Is Norn another Canadian tv character?Maybe the Canadian version of Cheers?
Barry E-Remodeler
It's not a Canadian thing.
I get a lot of flak on the jobsite because I'm a stickler for terminology. My co-workers often say "You know what I meant!"
we have a candian on our crew "you know what I mean , hey" what does "Hey" mean, can I buy a vowel with that.
Candian, sounds tasty! BTW it's pronounced "eh" eh?
I guess I'm being nitpicky... sorry.
The correct spelling is "EH!"
and EH = Huh for you 'merikens.Every time I start a new project, I get a lot of mileage out of his.....
"NOPE! Don't like it! Take it down!! Take it all down!!!"
and they talk about my grammar EH
Yer such a hosehead.
Takeoff EH!LOL
Wait a minute. Is that how you Canadians announce your flight departures?
You hosers are cleared for... Takeoff EH!'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
View Image
How do you spell 'Canada'?
C, eh
N, eh
D, eh.
can you spell canada
Can? naw duh.
That's enough of that or you will get nothing but frozen seal blubber for thanksgiving.
On my crew if we are standing the wall, we ask "Hand me the plumb stick"
And setting a beam we ask for the leveleven tho it is the same tool
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It always was a bubble stick for us!
The show has changed significantly over the past few seasons. Much more mainstream and the new HOLMES Inspection show has nice graphics and interestingly very, very little of Mike himself. The crew does everything and he pops into reveal the problems to the homeowner and to wrap up.
The plumb/level thing, cement/concrete dumbing down doesn't contribute to the audience understanding the construction industry better...but it may help his Neilson ratings.
My favorite episode was an early one where the homeowners had paid for their cabinets but the guy refused to deliver them. Mike went to the cabinet guys place to get the cabinets and discuss the dispute he had with the homeowners. Beautiful television. It never happened again.
All that being said it is one of the few shows depicting actual tradespeople doing actual work. This Old House this season has virtually eliminated the Silva brothers crew entirely. The site is quiet, clean and uncluttered with gruff but loveable guys like me.
Jon
Russian saying
Yeah, you're right about TOH. It's slowly become little more than a series of infomercials for high end appliances and such.
The guys on the show are just entirely too clean and relaxed to be believable.
Haven't picked up on the level and plumb thing, but I'll watch for it.
As a canuck, he's been on the bube tube for a few years. Got his hands in a lot of things, including charitable works, and he's got a NO programme running too. Just where is FEMA
On one show, he's shouting that the fella who installed the shower made a fatal error by not using stainless steel screws to install the cement board, but on a few shows later he's busy complimenting a tile guy while he's busy using ordianary drywall screws.
On another show where the owners were acting as their own general in order to save money, the plumber apparently told them to make sure they had some pipes insulated properly, but they didn't, and Mike, bless his heard, was grandstanding about how this catastrophe would have been averted if the plumber had only insulated his plumbing and that he couldn't have expected the homeowners (aka general contractors) to insulate pipes....
In other words, the general (homeowners) didn't do what they were instructed to do, but it comes out to be the fault of some tradesman working under their direction. Wouldn't your heart just be broken.
And ya know, I ain't ever seen him ONCE fault a homeowner for a single thing. Not for lack of comment as to what is obviously going on all around them in their own home, not for lack of fiscal prudence ("I paid them in full up front" being all too commonplace) or admittance to saying " can you do it cheaper" or "cover it up, I'm selling the place" . Those phrases which we've all heard never entered into the equation of this TV show, but as an experienced contractor, the guy never gives a hint of having encountered them.
Mike Holmes is an equivical item in my agenda. Some of the stuff he shows is absolutely flabbergasting from the point of view of shoddy work, (the shoddier the work, the better the ratings eh?)
I'm suspectiing that his show picks up the tab for a lot of the improvements, so it is not suprising that the homeowners don't share a lot of their embarrasing mistakes in judgement/advisements /instructions to contractors, who NEVER get a chance to defend themselves.
Anybody seen any of their own work crucified on TV?
So, just like any other TV show, listen with a grain of salt, listen for what is unsaid, learn from it. It may not be fantasy, but it ain't far from it.
Just my thoughts
Eric
To be fair, I have seen him comment on people going with a low bidder that was obviously out to lunch. I remember one show where he pointed out that a basement renovation should be approx 5 times what the homeowners paid for it, no wonder it was horrible and never finished.
I'm still dumbfounded, however, at the truly shoddy stuff that keeps showing up. Some of the real garbage that people throw together and foist off on people.
You remember when Mike got nailed for a retaining wall / building permit issue a few years back?
You remember when Mike got nailed for a retaining wall / building permit issue a few years back?
His own permit personally? Or on the show?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
It was a job he did for someone else.
He re-built a retaining wall for some woman in Mississauga, I think, and then someone claimed it obstructed the view from the driveway, and they claimed he should have had a permit for it.
And...his crew, the kids and such that have been on over the years, they have
(most of them) gone on to become their own successful contractors.He will pick up someone who needs a break and give them a shot as well...remember Pinkie?The outside contractors, the closet guys, etc. all seem to donate or deeply discount their work and manufacturers donate materiel. If you tape a show and slow the credits down or go to the HGTV Canadian website you see he has preferred contractor lists. So they do it for the promo value.I saw him at a local seminar years ago and he said at that time that if the homeowner was busted the work and material was totally provided but if the homeowner was able to contribute they did. The homeowner ponies up for any upgrades beyond what the show was going to put into it.Its great TV and as things evolve he adopts. He used to use foam board for basements but now uses Dri Core, for instance. Early adopter of the dietra (sp?) shower and floor tile system, etc.Hard to find anyone jumping on him in this country, very well known for charitable work, his foundation and etc."I've seen enough, tear it down"oops, that is another drink, eh?
Yeah, he does tear a lot of stuff out. I wish as a gag they'd get Gorbachev to do a guest appearance.... ;-)
-- J.S.
I wish as a gag they'd get Gorbachev to do a guest appearance....
Hmmmmm ..... not getting it. Please explain?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"Some old actor type said it.
It's the famous Reagan speech -- "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." ;-) So, the gag would be Gorby with a sledgehammer busting some sheetrock.
-- J.S.
Doh! I shoulda got that.Yeah, Ronny wouldn't be "up" for a guest spot! ;-)Although, it would be funny if the crew wore Gorby and Uncle Ronny masks.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
" I wish as a gag they'd get Gorbachev to do a guest appearance."
I had to think about that for a minute, but that;s danged funny.
(-:
There are advantages to being elected President. The day after I was elected, I had my high school grades classified Top Secret. [Ronald Reagan]
Is this a Canadian thing or does it drive anyone else crazy?
That man is an IDIOT.
I am a Canadian and I speak for my people. Sorta. At least for myself (when the wife says its ok ).
He is held up as such a paragon of the industry that now if you are speaking to a client and don't sound like a half-wit they think you must be incompetent. I have never seen such boulshiat on a site as I have witnessed on his shows. For example - rough framing with screws. WTF?? He says screws are stronger in shear than nails. HUH? Using regular steel screws to fasten joist hangers on a show that aired about 2 years before Simpson finally introduced a joist-hanger screw. Hello... hanger nails please!
So many more glaringly wrong and foolish things. Ugh. Tosses "CODE" around like a religious mantra.
The business with the level is just laughable. So is he.
Pinky is dirty-hot, though, and Kate is stunningly beautiful.
Its TV, right.Like all TV, they reno in a an hour, there never is any dust or debris, there always is enough money to "do it right" and the outcome is always perfect. They even have time to advertise in that hour.At least on Holmes show, you see the demo hit the floor and be carried out, you see the dumpster, you hear him explain that the trades are on top of one another, etc.Oh, and bring Pinkie and Kate to my quarters, you don't even have to bathe them first, I'll deal with it.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I have some renos to do, honest. My quarters need some, um, er, renos.
Sorry chum, they are currently guest-starrring in a new series I am shooting in my basement called "In My Dreams". You can have them when I am done. Pinkie has a tongue-peircing, BTW. Damn.
I chimed in once before as a fan of the show and a total amateur. I understand the critique that he has an unrealistic budget and I too cringe when he says "three quarter round" or "I accept," but on most shows he finds people who have been screwed 9 ways from Sunday and helps them out. I think he's a good guy.
Me too.He makes money doing this but he gives back, lots.The seminar I went to some time back, he went over, really long and it wasn't fake. You could see his handlers getting frustrated but he wanted to finish up properly. He was talking about his foundation (not part of the seminar) and he was done when he was good and ready, handlers be damned.And, despite going long, I didn't see one audience member get up and leave or even start to shift around in the seat. Kinda guy you'd like to hoist a few with is my impression.
Pinkie alone is more than I could handle...with both it'd kill me.Todd
I'm just curious .... what EXACT screws was he using for framing that are not proper?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I believe it wasn't the screws so much as the attitude about how screws are so much better!
Screws on a whole do not have the shear strength that nails do, there are caveats to that statement . But on the whole it stands true. It's because of the thread configuration. Also as far as production a nail goes in a lot quicker then the act of screwing , a nail is cheaper to set and cheaper to manufacturer . I have used alot of those grk lags and love them , but cost is astronomical . A lag can be alot intrusive on an end grain than a nail .The cost on a whole is a big concern. Although on small jobs , they can be absorbed with relatively low cost.
Edited 11/14/2009 10:39 am ET by alias
i just finished watching that show .Where his crew came in and redid three bathrooms in a new house. There where very cheap acrylic bathtub issues in all of them , mold,cracks, they did a nice job it looks. The one thing that threw me was they removed the bathtub enclosure to accommodate a nice large shower the water feed wasn't moved for the toilet and stands proud of the toilet 8-10 inches from behind (where it should have been). The whole wall was opened up .What would it have been to couple the feed to the toilet ,to move it the correct place??Edited 11/14/2009 10:39 am ET by alias <!-- KIPCARP -->
Edited 11/14/2009 10:40 am ET by alias
I'm a bathroom renovator here in Vancouver and I have to say that I always ask the boys if the wall is "Level" not "Plumb". We check for "Plumb" with a 'Level' not a 'Plumb line'.As for Mike being annoying - for sure. The fact that he can build a home in New Orleans for a family with a 40,000 (my guess) slab and footing package in a neighborhood that homes are most likely 60k - 120k is a little over the top.Put what has happened here anyway is clients are becoming more educated, they want better installs and are willing to pay for them.This Mike has to be given huge credit for.I love the guy - even though he screws up time to time on the show.
i saw that show too, just about a hour ago. They put some type of waterproofing on top of the cement board. I never caught the name of it, it was a orange fiber type material. Then they put tile on top of it
Yeah ya know that whole system , i watched with my mouth a gape . But he77 if he's got the confidence to use it, cest la vie . Know shower pan either... i dont know about that, i like the belt and suspender approach ,but i over think things when water is the issue. Again i guess it's new technology , that you have to get your head around it . With a warranty, i guess he has the confidence to use it . His name is on the marquise.....
Edited 11/14/2009 11:46 am ET by alias
One thing he used in the big fence installation behind some condos was a set of fence gate corner braces. They looked to be black iron and were sized for 2x4 s to just lay in and form the side of the gate WITH THE HARDWARE/forms holding the wood edges.
any idea who makes that hardware- I HAVE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED.
How about a little more a description on the corner braces?? it sounds interesting.
The corner braces I saw were more than braces, they were a 90 degree channel at each corner channel that held the two 2x4 s . metal of course.
have been unable to find them even with lots of web searching
cool ,thanks for the effort.....
I was that show too. I think it was in the Toronto area so you might even try Canadian Tire.
I wasn't all that keen on him attaching both gates to the houses so that whenever your neighbors' kids go wilding though you will hear and feel it. It was also funny to see him riding his crew over small details, but when other builders showed up to help they did things however they wanted. You could tell by then he realized he had miles of fence left and just wanted it done.
I have used those to build gates. The customer always supplies them.I have looked a box but can't think of the name. Try Home Hardware in Canada. If not canadian tire. They are slick.To the other posters Mike is a chick magnet. I have heard women refer to him as a " Hunk"But Peirre Elliot Treadeu is still the supreme Canuck....I like Pinky, well the whole crew, some have been with him a long time.He has pushed for better consumer law and he has a foundation. I think we over look one large thing Customer Service!! And I hate to say there is a reason for permits and a code book. I have seen things like he uncovers and you can't believe there was not a fire or CO/CM poisining . Junction boxes or not, Breaks in the fire walls. Cut beams.....
what are the gate braces called?
Is this the gate hardware you are asking about? amazon.com sells it. as does home depot.
http://www.homaxproducts.com/products/fencing/01/howto.html
No sag easy gate hardware kit. You can't tell from the picture, but it is designed to accept 2x4 material
I think Sturdie Gate? old brain you know.Yesterday they did the behind the scene's at a cottage on an island and had to boat everything over. Explained the financing, et all.For what it's worth. Minimum code is just that. If you lay ceramic tile on minimum code floor it will break or come loose. So if you build to the minimum don't try and fancy it up to look like a McMansion. A granite top on a large island is probably exceding dead load requirments. I don't see cross blocking or even bottom strapping on a stick framed floor.A quick look at span tables shows that, but paying someone a few bucks to install them is to spendy. They now allow finger jointed stud for exterior walls. WTF. I see in some promotional brochures they call this an improvment?
You have got to get out more. <G> They have been using finger joint studs since at least 1990. I remember seeing finger joint floor joists in the late 80s!
also sold under the name INSTA GATE- clever, huh?available (in canada) at home depot.i've used them twice, and they're good.
The product name is Schluter, the orange "fabric" on the walls (and shower base) is called "Kerdi" .....the de-coupling material used on the floor is "Ditra".....Schluter also makes pre-formed shower "pans" from an EPS foam material, which are also pre-sloped.....the Kerdi can also be used with a "mud job" install as well.
I've used Ditra many times and love it, I've got a job coming up that I'll be using the Shower system with pre-sloped pan....under the circumstances it should save a lot of time and labor [I hope :)], but so far I've been very impressed with the product line.
Geoff
I think screws are better in some applications but for hangers not at all! A good demonstration of why: sink a screw partially into a surface and do the same with a nail, now see how many swings of a hammer it takes to break each one, the screw breaks first every time.
Back in 1980 i worked in a factory that manufactured fastners, nuts , bolts ,rivets etc. It was a high quality product , Learned alot about cold headed fasteners, in the secondary department they did heat treating and threading. A surprising intricate process , but one of the tests when the screw blank came out of the heat treat kiln was to put in a "special"vise , and press a button and this arm would come out and strike the head at a precise speed and torque if it bent or broke depending on the screw application it would pass or fail. The process of tempering and or annealing, water bath or oil bath , were indicative to where the product was being applied . They had a huge contract with grip-rite fastners (before they went offshore), and there product was heat treated when they came out , i tested them and the bench mark they broke not bend. They were more brittle than some of the aeronautical products , that was aresult of the heat treating process and a cool down bath that was a water composite with other additive it was milky white, i cant remember what it was . But the cool down bath never changed color , which surprised me because of the heated product being introduced to it. Hardly any smell also. Any how my point.... it the cooloing off that dictates the brittleness to the screw . It's a trade off , because if wasnt heat treated , it would fold under the torque of the screwing in . So they heat treat it to make it stronger, more durable
Edited 11/14/2009 11:36 am ET by alias
Makes sense to me.
My previous point, in pictures.
I think I've only seen episodes with Pinkie. Don't remember the other girl.
KATE CAMPBELL
LABOURERKate was the second woman to join the cast of Holmes on Homes™ and has been with the show for two seasons. She is also a graduate of WIST (Women in Skilled Trades) pre-apprenticeship training program. Kate provides general construction labour, including demolition, drywall taping and mudding, and finishing (tiling, sanding, painting).That's her bio from the HGTV site. She went on the trip to New Orleans. She's hot. Not a dingbat, either.
My final point, again with a picture.
I'll come out and say it, I like his show. I like this old house too. Both entertaining mostly and somewhat informative. I'm jealous all their brand new hardly used not even dirty tools they get to play with.
But they crank out some quality work.....i think the way it works is the homeowner pays for the materials and the show supplies the labour.
Drives me nuts. I find myself constantly correcting people about that.
If the wall is level you have some big problems ahead of you.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
After watching that show I wonder if (after he's done filming) he gets naked and rubs himself with a codebook?
I've never seen anyone so pleased with their own work.
Thank God he exists, otherwise Canada may have fallen off the continent.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Keep watching. He is always saying that "minimum code requirement" is not good enough.
My main beef with his approach is that as soon as he is called in the owner's input into what occurs ends. It may make for good TV to be able to surprise them with their new spaces but I don't see why, just because they had poor luck with a contractor, that they them get no say in the project from then on. No other contractor relationship works this way.
And let's be honest, the guy often displays fairly questionable taste. You sometimes see it in the poor owner's faces when he brings them in. Sure they're happy he got them out of the bind, but at the expense of having a new kitchen laid out the way he wanted it, in colors they may well hate. I don't think he could function in a traditional builder-client relationship. His ego would get in the way.
There was a show where a wheelchair-bound lady had no bathroom for almost a year, because her contractor built a non-accessible one she couldn't use, then came back and ripped out the fixtures when she refused to pay. Holmes ended up basically redoing her whole apartment. I agree that this is a bit gratuitous, but how is it any different from Extreme Makeover, etc.? It's a decision they made for the show, probably to get a wider audience than just men, who may be more interested in Pinkie and the wet basements expert.
I bring up this lady because she left paint chips and notes all over the apartment and Holmes made a point to show that and to honor her wishes.
Point taken, but did you see the one where he decided this couple's house was too far gone to be saved and built them a new one? They liven in a modest, homey type of place with lots of stuff and knick-knacks. He gave then an extreme modern design, that you could tell they had no idea how to live in, full of state of the art equipment they would gladly have traded for an comfy old couch and some carpeting.
It also gets up my nose when people tell you what a hero they are, and how good a job they have done. That is for others to say, not him.
There is a show in rotation up here that is a behind the scenes thing, describes the very beginning of the show, how it came about, how and why they pick subjects, the what and the how of everything behind the scenes.Just on in my market this week, as a matter of fact.Suffice it to say, unless they are lying on camera in this particular show, everything you state is wrong. Lets remember that while this show may be new to you, its been on for almost 10 years up here. If there were problems we would have heard about it by now.Its TV, editing is involved. Some of the repeats are re-edited to make them a little fresher and you can hear the over dubs as they add in info originally left out. The clients are definitely in the loop, picking out colours, carpet, tile and such. I've seem it and heard it.Its TV for goodness sake. Give the pontificating a break or at least tell me what channel you are on.
I live "up here" and have been watching it on and off as long for as long as it has been on. Rather than brush my criticism off by referring to the background show I missed, why not address it based on what I've said? Did that couple want or know they were getting a modernist Eco house? Do the couples have access to the site during the work except when he shows them what was wrong after demo? Do they appear to have any input into the designs. Are they faking their surprise at all the choices he has made for them?
You are right, there are no "problems" to come out. The owners get lots labor and money thrown at their projects. Anyone who is not grateful is a fool. But just because someone has access to resources that they can direct towards a problem doesn't make them immune to criticism.
Why don't they run a background show where they sit down and talk to some of the builders whose work he denigrates? Are the owners all saints, or are some working with lowballers and cash builders getting what they should expect? Sure it's TV, but that leaves a pretty large field to play on. It doesn't have to be a reality show with a lot of fake drama.
I wasn't trying to brush you off, sorry.I *was* trying to be concise and not post a book. I expect if the same conversation, using the exact words, was held over a round table with some wobblie pops in hand, you'd know that.
True. No need to apologize. If anyone should be sorry it's me wasting your time complaining about what really is quite inconsequential. I make fun of Mike Holmes for my own amusement, much as I do other celebrities.
That his show is presented in ways that annoy me is as much a symptom of the times as any fault of his. I don't know if TV is really getting worse or if I am just losing my tolerance for it, but don't you find it harder and harder to watch most stuff with a straight face?
It's not a Canadian thing.
j
I just tried watching the show. I lasted a whole 7 minutes.
He is a major jerk!
If I had to spend any amount of time around him somebody would get very hurt. Can't say it wouldn't be me. But, someone would.
Remember this is just my opinion.
Russell
"I don't know if TV is really getting worse"
In my opinion TV is getting way worse. Most shows on now are so bad that I watch very little of it.
I truly think it is part of the cause of amerika's dumbing down.
Yes I do believe we are becoming dumber as a nation or maybe it's brain washing.
Sorry about the hijack. Now back to the regular scheduled program.
Russell
The whole thing just makes me feel old.
LOL!Been feeling that way myself lately.Must be something n the air.Russell
Yes I agree I must get out more often. But honestly I have not seen a finger jointed stud. Lots of trim and door casings. North Sask still has a small lumber trade and we get reasonable quality wood, Better since most of it does not go south.
I used steel studs for all my interior partions, with appropriate blocking!!! They are all straight. and easy to make a floating wall.
I to often have had to install doors on a wall were they didn't lay there crowns the same and it is a PITA as the wall width grows.
I can't imagine how a finger joint stud will survive seasonal movement and would be useless when you have a strong wind load. Ie Tornadoes and Plough winds.
The next super bug we have to worry about is a bacteria that will live on all the glue in OSB, MDF and Finger joint stuff. One day you will close your door at home and it will all slide downhill.
Rather watch Mike than Billey Graham, America's top models and Opera.
Yes TV has slid bad. but Red Fisher was no Idol as early sportsmen thought!
Helck even some people enjoy watching 4 down football WTF.
"Helck even some people enjoy watching 4 down football WTF."
ROLF. Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.
GO RIDERS.
As a contractor, that is my main, substantive beef with him. That he calls poor workmanship a failure of the building code implies that it all needs to be raised up to such a level that few would ever be able to afford it.
Easy for him to say. His heart may be pure when he goes off on these rants but if he got what he wanted, it would price housing out of reach for ordinary people. And I'm certainly not saying that ordinary people deserve low standards. I simply believe that "minimum code" (he says with a sneer) is just that and is usually a bit overkill. Folks who desire and can afford more can always go up from there.
The message all contractors (general and trade) should take from his show is that we have a large burden to perform our work to the standard of the contract, whatever that standard is and not a bit less.
He doesn't call poor workmanship a failure of the building code. He criticizes parts of the code that allow a selection of floor joists that result in bouncy floors, for example. He doesn't blame builders or contractors for this. I think he does a pretty good job pinning the blame on the right people, including the government and sometimes the homeowner.
If I was a Canadian homeowner, the message I'd take away from the show is that you can do everything right, references, permits, inspections, new home warranty, etc. and still get in deep, scary trouble. You have to be diligent in vetting a contractor, monitor the work, don't pay too much up front, recognize the signs of shoddy, dangerous work, and be ready to pull the plug early because you can't depend on anyone.
Personally, I wish the show focused a lttle less on Holmes's bathroom and kitchen designs and a little more on rooting out the dishonest and incompetent. I think I understand why the show can't actually be like that.
I can see why it would rankle you when he comes in and sprays expensive foam everywhere and puts in all new panels, replumbs, etc. He couldn't sell that job either. But that's not really the point of the show. The events that occured prior to him showing up are the point of the show and are almost always compelling and sometimes an outrage. If you can't see that maybe you have a jaundiced view.
We don't disagree, but I'll state it another way - the codes, generally, are written to address life safety and basic performance standards. Many people could care less about a bouncy floor particularly if they were given the choice to beef it up at extra cost. However, that bouncy floor, constructed to that sinister "minimum code" is structurally up to the task.
I will gladly admit, though, that I relish those times when he uncovers some shockingly bad stuff that so-called pros did. I wish he could find them, grab them by the collar and haul them back to the scene of the crime to explain. Ever hear the term "schadenfreude"?
Many people could care less about a bouncy floor particularly if they were given the choice to beef it up at extra cost.
I think his point is, they should care more about rigid floors even if it costs a bit more, and builders should try to encourage that sort of focus on quality instead of going for lowest cost. Is that unreasonable?
"builders should try to encourage that sort of focus on quality instead of going for lowest cost. Is that unreasonable?"Sadly when 9 out of 10 jobs are given to the low bidder, then yeah.
Minimum code compliant houses with low quality fixtures don't have the problems that Mike Holmes comes across. When I first began building spec. units in the early 90s, I was building small, basic houses that sold to first time buyers for about 120 thousand - which was 40 grand less than anything else on the market, because everyone else had not interest in serving the low end. I never had a single call back and in the intervening years I've watched successive owners add on and renovate those houses without any problems. The world isn't filled with hidden time bombs just because all builders don't do high end projects
Lately I am seeing via DirecTV on HGTV channel, a full hour of Holmes on Homes. They are repeat episodes of what was playing a few years ago as a half hour show.A LOT was missing from the half hour show that I now can see in the full hour. Just *MAYBE* .... his complaints seem strange if you saw the half hour version.I do not have a problem with what he does. Or what he says. He's helping people that got royally shafted. Just remember, it's also a TV show. Why get all bent out of shape by a TV show? Change the channel.I'd rather have him fixing someone's grandmother's house than some unknown yahoo.BTW, is his new show about inspections shown in the US anywhere? Are episodes available on the internet somewhere?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I never had a single call back and in the intervening years I've watched successive owners add on and renovate those houses without any problems.
I'm glad to hear it. But it's a moot point. Holmes doesn't film at a house just becuase it doesn't meet his lofty standards. The selected houses have serious problems that the homeowner has not been able to get the builder, or contractor, or warrantor to fix. If you could point me to a show where there wasn't a legitimate issue I would rather discuss that instead of nitpicking about his style or personality or malapropisms.
The point I was trying to make is that the problems that he encounters are not because of building to "minimum code" as he puts it, but rather poor building. Using code span tables may make your floor bouncy but that is it. It won't collapse, you don't need to call Mike Holmes. He only has the sketchiest understanding of the codes anyway.
Of course there are legitimate issues in the houses he does work on. What is open to debate is whether the majority of the work he does is necessary to remedy the problems and also the techniques he uses to do so.
I also don't see why, as someone who has chosen to enter public life and promote himself, that commenting on his style or personality should be any less fair than discussing politicians, sportsmen or any other well known figures within our culture. He is the self-appointed public face of the construction industry.
Just askin..... if the floor is bouncy (and bare minimum code for joist span), should the installer/contractor of a new tile floor do something to prevent the tiles from cracking?i.e. beef up the floor joists or ????
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
if the floor is bouncy (and bare minimum code for joist span), should the installer/contractor of a new tile floor do something to prevent the tiles from cracking?
i.e. beef up the floor joists or ????
That's part of the point. That a floor framing system should always be built to handle tile is not a reasonable code requirement and would unnecessarily add costs. Of course, if the flooring is later changed out to tile, then it should be addressed but that's really a separate issue.
There seems to be a disconnect with some posters regarding cost/benefit and the false notion that upgrades don't cost more. A quarter pounder WITH cheese costs slightly more than the plain quarter pounder.
I do like the show, they show more work than TOH does. I hate when TOH goes and visits some museum or when Norm goes to Old Sturbridge Village. Just build something!!! Anyway i live in NY and the only HOH I see is on Saturday mornings, its an hour long show, but its episodes from a few years ago. How do I see the new episodes?? Anyone know the deal?
Craig
This same thing happened last time a Holmes thread came up. I found myself defending the guy way more than I wanted to. He seems to rub a lot of people here the wrong way so I won't deny there's a problem. But then when I hear those people describe the show I can't believe they're watching the same show.
I think the problem here is that when I watch the show--and I've seen many of them--I don't see him doing the things you say, like blaming bad construction on the code or vice versa. I disagree about your basic characterization of Holmes and the show.
Is it just Holmes? Are you also annoyed by the crew or the regulars like the wet basement guy, or the electrician or the plumber?
I think it's a cheap shot to say he's the "self-appointed" anything. Couldn't I say that about you?
"This same thing happened last time a Holmes thread came up. I found myself defending the guy way more than I wanted to."
And I end up bashing him way more than he deserves. He does rub me the wrong way and so I do hold even petty things against him, which probably isn't all that fair.
Do I hate the rest of his crew? Only the Mini-Holmes guy who seems to model himself a bit too closely on the master.
Let me give you an examples of the things I have found irritating in the last couple of shows I watched:
He was pouring a footing for a concrete block retaining wall using a special product - a dry concrete that looked like a wheel barrow of aggregate - which they poured into a shallow trench. One of his crew told the camera they used it because otherwise they would have had to build forms. Why? Why couldn't they just fill the trench with regular mix? Maybe there was a good reason to use their dry stuff, but if they knew they didn't share it with us.
A couple of weeks back he had a go at a wall he "wanted to take a look at". Smashed out the gypsum and then, in the absence of anything more significant, counted the screws used to attach it and pointing to the poorly sealed vapour barrier. Neither of which presented any problem. The drywall had shown no evidence that it was loose and the wall cavity was dry and performing well.
Am I nit-picky? Maybe. But I find this kind of stuff in every episode.
I look at the show the same way I look at this site - people who are good at what they do may have completely different ways of doing things, and may stridently disagree on them.
Sure, some people don't like him, and you can always find things you don't like about his work. But look at this forum; same thing applies. I don't think I'd like him as a friend, not sure I'd want him as a contractor, but he's genuine in what he does.
I laugh at the criticism of his knowledge of 'code'; after all, isn't there a thread kicking around here that basically says a contractor can't be expected to know and keep up with codes?
It's television. There are some good points to be taken from each episode, but it is not the be all and end all. It is, after all, television, where the primary role is to sell advertising.
A couple of weeks back he had a go at a wall he "wanted to take a look at". Smashed out the gypsum and then, in the absence of anything more significant, counted the screws used to attach it and pointing to the poorly sealed vapour barrier. Neither of which presented any problem. The drywall had shown no evidence that it was loose and the wall cavity was dry and performing well.
IIRC, there were other prior found indications that things were done poorly. Pulling out the drywall to check if there was any MORE issues in that area is not a TERRIBLE idea in that particular situation.
In the location of the house being worked on, isn't it very important to have properly sealed (taped) vapor barriers?
Is it a code issue to have taped seams?
Luckily there was no damage found. But that doesn't mean that damage could NOT happen in the near future due to vapor condensing.
a dry concrete that looked like a wheel barrow of aggregate - which they poured into a shallow trench. One of his crew told the camera they used it because otherwise they would have had to build forms. Why? Why couldn't they just fill the trench with regular mix?
Just my own speculation.... maybe the editing deleted the explanations?
Maybe using regular mix would require a larger, wider & higher footing?
Would a local code require footings for regular mix, yet the heavy aggregate mix does not?
Yes, it would be good to have heard more explanation.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
"a little more on rooting out the dishonest and incompetent"He'd have to expose himself then.
That would give a new meaning to "Holmes on Holmes"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL. Touche.
Mike Holmes, egomaniacal do-gooder, gives me the creeps. I threw him out of my TiVo last week when I counted him saying "I, me, myself, I'm, I will, I saved, I saw - I,I,I,I,I" 126 times during one show.
'I'm" thinkin Mike can't quite get over Mike!
Carl
Are you saying Holmer can do circles around Norm Abrams? I've watched I think ecvcery episode of Holmes and he has an ego the size of Texas, does some nice work and probably is a nice guy. He is one tenth the craftsman of Norm.
Have a good day
Cliffy
My bud in Acton told me the wall was on city property and they made him move it. Holmer lives out there somewhere.
Have a good day
Cliffy
right on.
How about misrepresenting the code. How about when he admitted to the camera he doesn't know how to calculate rafter lengths.
Have a good day
Cliffy
He looks cute in the overalls, but I am afraid amy mathewes gets the nod.
////He looks cute in the overalls, but I am afraid amy mathewes gets the nod.///10-4, Amy's got a bod, knock-out in high def!Carl
I'm a fan of the show, but can you imagine working for that guy? He finds a mis-wired light switch in the master bedroom and goes:
"hmmm...who knows what else could be wrong up here, we'd better rip off the roof and rebuild the entire second story of this house" I feel like
I can almost hear his workers dying a little bit inside each time he turns a facelift remodel into a gut rehab. When in doubt, rip it (all) out, right?
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Only if I get paid!
<<<<<<<<<<<When in doubt, rip it (all) out>>>>>>>>>
I’m with Justin – I enjoy the show tremendously as television, but his appetite for destruction is truly Brobdingnagian. His pontificating can be annoying, but that is what the FF button on the DVR is for. Some of his style choices are not mine, but I’m not from Ontario, eh?And I think his kid works as part of the team, if that’s the mini-Holmes that was referred to.But he does bail out a lot of people who get hosed.
For that, more than anything else, I am willing to forgive a lot of the excesses of the show.
jose c.
--
"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
I've been sitting back reading this thread, hesitating to respond, but here goes.In interests of full disclosure I'm a displaced Canadian that's been living and working construction in the USA for the last dozen years. Firstly, what would people be saying about you if you were the 'host' of the show, we all have our quirks, strong points, and weak points.Yes, the 'plumb' vs 'level' thing irks me, but we all know what's meant - I'm sure we all have our 'quirks'. Mine is calling out all measurements in inches and sixteenths so there is no confusion about what Six and Three means.If we are all here because we are concerned with quality - you have to admit that he does, within his limits, try to 'make things right'.It's a much more 'refreshing' show than some of the 'others out there'We all have our personal tastes, and since he is the 'host' it's his 'taste' that prevails - again - what would people say about your 'taste' if you were the 'host'?Lastly but not leastly, which has been reiterated more than a few times, it's TELEVISION!!!!!!!!!!!!Worth a shot to stop and think about how you would do as a host being watched internationally over every step you take.Some rumblings from North Carolina.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
> When in doubt, rip it (all) out, right?
Yeah, the decision to demo is his signature. He even has it in his generic main title. They'll demo something every show, that's the formula.
-- J.S.
Your right, it must be a Canadian thing, eh! I agree that I probably call it that but I learned what I know form some old Finlander carpenters.
Plumb would be correct term when throwing up a level to look at the plumb vial.
I guess I also call sliced white bread that is has been in the toaster "toast" and not "bread that has been toasted".
All you Holmes fans who don't get enough of him on TV might want to check out his new magazine, HOLMES: The Magazine to Make it Right. The first issue hits newstands today. It's unclear from the article I saw whether it is only available in Canada or the US too.
So what are you expected to do with all those annoying subscription cards?Rip 'em all out? :)'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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don't forget to mention that it automatically runs itself thru the shredder as soon as you read the first five pages.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
if you dont have to pay actors millions of $, you have lots to build. And Dewalt and all the other companies donate for tools and appliances to get them on the show.