Hello all,
I recently rehabbed a 20’s built home and sold it. As luck would have it, the six year old furnace went on strike the day of the inspection. I was called to the house, Clients inspector was there with clients and clients realtor. {was exciting} Inspector tells me filter is clogged and I should replace it, that’s the only problem hmm hmmm,,I ask what his back ground in HVAC was, he replied “trust me I know these things”.
Decided to stick around and see if the inspector catches I connected the cold water feed to the dishwasher…. No…. He ran the dishwasher checked the drain and said very good. hmmmmmmm.
The inspector really showed his knowledge when he pointed out the rafters as 2X6, (they were 2X4 }
Another great comment from this walking match book learned Home Inspector was” your furnace pipe out the roof is too low code is 3 feet above any roof within a 10 feet radius”” I kindly asked what code book he has,,, He smiled and said that’s code” I asked him to look again because code around here is 24″ above anything within 10 feet and at least 10 feet from any second story window. hmmm He pointed out a few minor paint chips and some loose siding which is fine and dandy but where it really counts he was far from being right. Glad he works our schools could use the extra tax dollars.
I for one don’t have a a lot of respect for home inspectors, I respect the idea, but with qualification such as at least 10 years in the trades and be licensed in at least one trade.
I Have been in the trades for 27 years and I claim to be not a expert in anything but my 27 years. we all learn everyday and if you read breaktime you learn more.
My question is.. How are the hired out home inspectors in other areas perceived or am I lifting my leg on the wrong tree?
Thanks
Replies
Like anything else, those that are good, ............are.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I had a total moron inspecter from the last house I sold. Spent about four or more hours in my house after coming about an hour and a half late....he was there till about nine oclock at night before I kicked his azz out.
He was being paid by the hour by the way.
The things he came up with were totally moronic like there were some roofing nails on the flat part of the roof that were left there by (me) and were melting through the roof....total lie!
He used MY ladders without my permission which made me blow my top....godforbid he fell, he'd have sued me.
He said I had termite damage to the plates.....they were CCA installed by me so??????????
I lost that deal but sold the house for more money weeks later anyway : )
Its like any trade..the good the bad and the ugly.
Some are "engineers" and some are simply" home inspectors"...no laws as to which are legal or not.
Talk to Bobby Walker...he's one of the good ones!
Be well
A
N
D
Y
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
When trying to move form New work to Renovations and repairs I looked into a pretty reputable Home Inspection franchise. They " Trained" you. I could attend their "School" for four weeks and in the end I would know everything i needed to know to be an effective home inspector. I asked if they needed a Resume or references and they said no. They would teach me all I needed to know even if I had been working at 7-11 just weeks before.
robert
I did a lot of work for a "home inspector" on his house and his clients for years. He told me I could do what he does in a heartbeat.
I don't think I'm qualified even though I've been doing renovation work for over 30 yrs.
I don't know HVAC or a whole lot of plumbing and electrical ....not enough to be honest to the customer...even though I know more than he does.
See...I'm an honest guy...maybe a bit insecure, yet I wanna know when some one has faith in me and trusts me.that I can deliver 100% at least.Might be a good thing to get into when my body lets go but I think....well as I said above.Maybe I'll start a new home inspection biz that says in my heading.......
well all of the above.
By the way....I believe my good friend Bob walker is a real good home inspector
Spector 007
That's Bond....James Bond
Be well bro and good luck
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Thanks for the reply. So many stories, to little time. I think we builders should band together and lobby the Home Inspector industry to get their act together and hold acountable those inspectors that cross the line of Building Inspector and home inspector There is no comparison between the two.PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
sway
speak with my very good friend Bobby Walker.
Incredible home inspecter.some suck and some are very helpfull piece
Be well
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
>>Thanks for the reply. So many stories, to little time. I think we builders should band together and lobby the Home Inspector industry to get their act together I completely agree, but make sure you know what HI's do and don't do. In my experience, there are a lot contractors who don't.>>and hold acountable those inspectors that cross the line of Building Inspector and home inspector There is no comparison between the two.Yeah, the jobs are completely different.The building inspector is looking for compliance with the specified, often minimal, standards of construction. The HI does much more than that {G}Let me ask you: Many jurisdictions in my area still allow 2x6s on edge for stair railings, notwithstanding a clear code (and common sense requirement) requirement which a 2x6 doesn't come close to.If you were an HI, how would you deal with that situation?*And if you dig deeply enough into the venting codes and rules, you'll see that the venting tables are merely guidelines, and the installer is required to determine whether the combustion appliance venting actually works.There is only one heating contractor in my area who does that as part of his installs.But I see a lot of inspection stickers on "new equipment" that has clearly not been tested for proper drafting.And code always requires following the manufacturer's instructions. Every 80+ furnace installation manual I've seen seen say's it is not to be used during the construction phase. And yet I see plenty of 80+ furnaces with stickers where they have clearly been used throughout construction.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
*FWIW, I disclose the handrail situation as "a non-standard" detail which increases the risk of injury if a fall occurs on the stairs, and I recommend the client consider replacing the handrail or adding a one which complies with current building standards.I never use the word "code" except to explain that I'm not doing a "code" inspection.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I wouldnt say a HI does more than a building inspector . I would say the jobs are different. You dont mention code because you are not a code official. A code official doesnt even have the chance to look for most of what you do and its not in the building codes to begin with, except the codes do prevent your kind of problems. There are different types of building officials just like contractors and home inspectors . Im getting ahead of my self.
Bob , a home inspectors biggest negative is people running their mouth about them. Drive by inspections and he was only there 15 minutes and so on. Stories that get passed on that are wrong Im sure . I cant imagine someone spending all that money and time to become a HI and doing an inadequate inspection. I dont believe any are doing drive bys, but there are plenty of stories they do.
You spending time with the client is the best advice Ive heard to eliminate peoples mouths.
Tim Mooney
Tim, that one line was intended as a joke.A subtle distinction in my mind: anyone can mention code, but only the AHJ can enforce it.But I'm careful not to use the "code" word except when explaining why OI don't do a "code" inspectionFWIW, my explanation of code in the HI process is along the lines of:"I don't do a code inspection for 2 reasons. First, codes are constantly changing. Codes apply while we're working on the house: 'here is how you have to do this today.' When the codes change, we don't have to go back and change the house. Second, I do inspections in about 25 different code jurisdictions, each of which can decide when, whether and to what extent they adopt changes. Assuming I could keep track of every code change and when in every jurisdiction, in most cases I don't know when a particular detail was added to the house, so I wouldn't know which code applies."Of course the 3rd reason is I'm not an AHJ, but I'm throwing enough info at the buyer, I want to avoid giving to much info which doesn't directly bear on what they are looking for.FWIW, I sometime hear people rag on AHJ building inspectors.I explain to them that nobody likes paying taxes and, basically, you get what you pay for - every building inspector I know is way overworked and bears an awesome responsibility of protecting peoples lives.I tell them without Code Officials, my job would be 10 times harder and I'd have to charge a whole lot more.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob,
From your post I am pleased that you take pride in your position and also know of its limitations. To answer your question concerning 2 x 6 handrail .... Well if I was a HI, I know that I would make a note of it . If its a acceptable code. I would not make it an issue. I can only be concerned with what is accepted in my area as I would not know what is code in other areas of the U.S.A. I could always make it an issue with my local city planer and zoning officer. As a HI I would be exposed to such issues that arrive from past poor building techniques more so than the local building inspector
The building industry is changing, some for the good and well lets leave it at that.
Let me ask you this is HI a Quality control inspector or a Building Inspector?
I for one see the need for a HI for people, when it comes to buying a used house or rehabbed junk. I have repaired a few of the hack jobs. It keeps paying my bills.
I am on your side my friend I just would like to see a more stringent effort on training of HI's. Plumbers,electricians and HAVC people need so many years of training to get there license and carpenters a few years of on the job and hopefully a good leadman will train them a HI only needs a few weeks and a ladder, flashlight,circuit tester and gas detector, and their on their way to make a deal or break a deal.
I will how ever look into more of the roll of the HI as to give me more ammo when I am confronted with the knowledge challenged HI.
Swaybrace
PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
Edited 1/26/2005 12:26 am ET by swaybrace
Let me ask you this is HI a Quality control inspector or a Building Inspector?
He is neither .
"I for one see the need for a HI for people, when it comes to buying a used house or rehabbed junk."
You answered it . They have no authority. They work strictly for the buyer normally. They are a paid advisor to the buyer of their services. They are in no way in quality control because they cant direct construction. They arent a building inspector because they dont deal with codes directly and they dont reject work or pass it . They dont work for an enity , they are a for profit self motivated business. Building inspectors work for cities and are supposed to be unbiased because they dont have cards dealt in the game their in.
Home inspectors if licensed are trained if they didnt grandfather in . If it was easy , there would be a lot more of them. Check the ASHI site and learn what is necesary to become a home inspector. Lots of dollars out of pocket and pay to train using your own time unpaid and nothing is qaurenteed. Im carry a general contractors license and have been a building inspector and I dont qualify. Is that BS? Not entirely. Either of my two trades doesnt train me for everything a HI needs to know. But the two trades is a lot more than a HI has to know. It is true that with two weeks training , they can be in business. But the process takes a lot longer than two weeks and a business has to be set up. Its not full time either to start . It reminds me of real estate. You only get paid when you sell and starting out starves a lot out.
Tim Mooney
>>Let me ask you this is HI a Quality control inspector or a Building Inspector?As Tim noted, neither. I am part detective, part educator and part advisor.As a detective, I'm discovering the facts about the house: what shape are the components in (are they functioning as intended and aging properly). As educator, I*'m teaching my client about those conditions and what their significance to the buyer may be: (A bad GFI is very important to replace; and is very inexpensive to do so -- a cracked heat exchanger is also very important to replace, and fairly expensive.) As an advisor, I'm trying to give the client thew insight needed to make an informed decisions as to (i) continue with the purchase and (ii) what sorts of things to consider discussing with the buyer (although I do not recommend any particular course of action in that regard - that is up to the buyer and his/her real estate purchase advisors.)>>I just would like to see a more stringent effort on training of HI's.Me too. And of all of the trades.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
" Let me ask you this is HI a Quality control inspector or a Building Inspector?"There are some HI that do operate as a Q.C. inpsector. They are hired by buyers having a new home built.And thus they should know current codes.But that is really a specialty and different from inspecting old houses.
Andy, my second hand exp with home inspectors.. .those who can't inspect.
Very few who know what they are doing.
My sister sold her house, and the Realty company sent out their "most experienced" Inspector (he was an independent - they just used him a lot). First thing he wrote down (and told the lady ready to buy the house) was that the street drainage was not up to par, and needed to be fixed (this would be a city issue, not a homeowner issue - so why would he even think that a homeowner would fix the problem)
Things just got better as he went along. Seems the upstairs bathroom window (the one right above the toilet) sticks, and he was sure that someone had painted it shut. Just needed the paint cut (he said), and the window would probably just open right up. Problem was, the upstairs bathroom doesn't have a window.
He said the front door was rotten due to termite and water damage, and needed to be replaced. The whole time he was talking about this, my sister was showing the lady (potential buyer) the receipt for the brand new door (complete with jambs and all) that had just been installed about 2 weeks before.
After that, no one there could keep a straight face when he started talking about problems. The lady that was going to buy the house hired her own inspector, and he said "very few minor things" needed attention. I spent about an hour fixing a vew minor things, and the lady bought the house.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
I rehabbed a house a few years back and ran into the same scenario when it comes to windows being painted shut. The windows were all vinyl no need to paint them at all.
I pointed this out to my attorney and we set up a second inspection with same inspector.. ..Well he never showed up, the new owners received their money back. ..A good deed never goes undone. PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
I just did work for a client whose selling his home FHA. The inspector told him he needed vents in his crawl-space under his florida room.................As it turns out, the florida room is on a raised slab.
Good one Maybe the inspector should start digging the tunnel under slabPRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
bumpPRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
JUst started a major rehab of an old house which passed its inspection with flying colors - total reroof, and the crawl space (where the inspector didn't crawl) is so wet, there's thick white fur on the joists....
my son just told me of a type of home inspector called "loan busters" or something, where they come in to nitpick you to death to try to drive down the price...wonder if they bring their own termites.....
Yes there are too many lousy home inspectors.
And there are too many lousy contractors.
You want maybe I should post a few pics from my inspection the other day of a house completely redone by a "contractor?"
Maybe the one of the gas water heater in the basement with no flue?
But not to worry about the renters living in the house (including the couple in the basement with no secondary exit,) he'd left the basement window close to the water heater open so the flue gases could escape.
And he was willing to put in writing that the way he had set it up was perfectly safe, so my client "shouldn't complain." "I'm a contractor!"
Never mind that basements have negative pressure and nothing went out of that window but there was a pretty good flow of air in. So far as I know, the CO levels coning out of the water heater never went above 2270 ppm.
That's the highest level my combustion analyzer reads.
Or how about the uncapped line coming off the main waste line?
Oh, wait a minute; they're both in the same picture, I can save some upload time!
Or the waste line put together with duct tape? I had to turn 90 degrees to snap that one.
Of course, the pinched condensate drain fronm the 90+ furnace is in that pic but is kind of hard to see. And you can't hear the splashing noises of from the draft inducer from backed up condensate because I didn't record them. But you could see where, presumably, backed up condensate had rusted out the bottom of the tertiary heat exchanger into the blower compartment. 6 year old furnace
Want to see some pics of the open-air splices all over the house?
Guess what? I forgot to write up in the report that the ovens didn't work.
I called out more problems in that house than just about any other house I've done, but I'll betcha that contractor is telling folks how I screwwed up not catching the oven.
Should I bitch about all of the (licensed) heating contractors who tell us that the only thing that causes high CO is a cracked heat exchanger? Or that high CO readings are OK as long as they go up the flue?
Or the electricians who tell us "Hey, no problem putting thermal insulation over knob and tube wiring - we've worked on thousands of houses with that."
Or the contractor the other day who assured my client not to worry about the hot water pex line running through the return air metal pan (with no protective grommet): "Don't worry, that's the way we've always done it."
Gotta love a misrepresentation on top of trying to make a right out of two wrongs.
And there oughta be a law against selling wood saws to plumbers.
Just about everybody here can tell countless stories about other screwups in the various trades.
My store of HI screwups (including a few of my own) is pretty long, as well.
Someone talked about a replacement door having been done.
If the job was done right, the HI shouldn't have seen any damage from down in the basement. How do you suppose he called out a condition that had just been "fixed?"
That Florida room. Was the floor on sleepers? Tough to tell the difference between a Floor on sleeprs and a floor over a crawl.
Even if it was straight slab, may I suggest trying to do everything a home inspector does and looks at in and evaluates during the time cliets are willing to pay for and not get something screwed up every now and again.
Any good contractor knows one heck of a lot more about his own trade than I do. HI's are generalists.
I'll tell you one mark of a smart contractor: he's the one who has figured out that HI's generate a heck of a lot of work for the trades.
Others think of us as the enemy.
Go figure!
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I'm new to actually being responsable for getting stuff passed. I actually went to a home/building-inspector website when i was planning a job awhile ago and fount it to be a HUGE resource, I got to learn a lot of hot button issues.. And I saw some pics, kinna in the same ball park as that nightmare house you were talking about, that made me appriciate you guys more than I had before. Anyway... yeah! post some horror story pics if theyre handy, i love seeing that stuff!!
______________________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Someone talked about a replacement door having been done.
If the job was done right, the HI shouldn't have seen any damage from down in the basement. How do you suppose he called out a condition that had just been "fixed?"
That was me.
First of all, there ain't a basement. The only time the guy even looked at the front door was when he rang the doorbell, and came into the house. Commented on the strange tone of the bell. Wouldn't you know it, he wrote up that the doorbell didn't work properly. (Didn't say that it didn't work at all, just said that it didn't work properly)
The door is a new fiberglass unit, with two sidelights. The job was done very well. One of the few times I have seen a tradesman put in that kind of pride in his work.
How did he call out a condition that had just been "fixed"? Probably the same way he called out a "painted shut" bathroom window in a bathroom that had no window. Even pintpointed the window "above the toilet".
And you are absolutely right about hacks in the contractor fields. They make us all look bad, and make us all a bit angry that customers all over America are getting ripped off. Just as there are rotten contractors, there are rotten Home Inspectors.
The horror stories seem to be the only stories told these days. Very few people talk about how great their job went, or how good of a job the tradesmen did. People only talk about the horror stories.
Someone did mention that this guy should talk to you because you were very good, very knowledgeable, and could help out with good info. How about it? Got some good tips on how to find a good, reputable, knowledgeable Home Inspector? And some tips on how we can make the Home Inspector's job a bit easier, which in turn would give us a better quality inspection?James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
I lived in one house for 32 years. 26 of those years I was some where along the learning curve of a remodeling contractor.
You can imagine the hack jobs I did on my own home, from novice level to experienced mechanic. Nothing as bad as what Bob has described, but ugly and scarey would fit just fine.
Bought land to build a new home on in 1990, and started serious corrective work on the old place to get it ready to sell. Using my acguired experience in the trades and a lot of research, I managed to fix the place up, and sell it.
The buyers HI was a retired home builder and realtor. He spent 2 1/2 hours going over a 1050 sf home, and issued no report.
His only comment was to ask my wife what was wrong with the furnace. Her reply was "nothing that she was aware of,....why?" He says he dosen't ussualy see units that clean, so he thought there might be something wrong. DW explains that I am a maintenance tech. and real anal about HVAC maintenance.
Point of all this is most people, including many contractors, think they can blow through correctives before an inspector looks at a place, and get no hits durring the inspections. Good inspectors and good contractors know better.
It shows up in both of thier work.
Dave
James, you had said: "e said the front door was rotten due to termite and water damage, and needed to be replaced. The whole time he was talking about this, my sister was showing the lady (potential buyer) the receipt for the brand new door (complete with jambs and all) that had just been installed about 2 weeks before."It seems pretty odd to me that an HI would call out a problem where there just wasn't one.Remember, we are trying to look at every square inch of the house and component, and evaluate each as to whether it is operating as intended and aging properly. We're also looking for symptoms of potential hidden problems.I just don't see how an HI could call out something brand new like that without (i) mixing up what door it is or (ii) there being remaining evidence of an incomplete repair.Anything can happen, of course, but after a few thousand inspections and working with other inspectors with similar levels of experience, I believe it is far more likely to miss ####call out than to call out a problem where non exists.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
That was the whole point of telling about this guy.
He was the most incompetent HI that I have ever seen. Now I know that it is rare for one to be that incompetent, but this guy takes the cake. I honestly don't know how he gets any business at all, much less repeat business from the realtors. This guy was so bad, he wasn't even familiar with his own Inspection List. When he would look at something, he would have to look the list over very carefully to find where to mark it. It sure looked like this was the first time he had seen the list before, and he was unsure where to mark everything. He wrote a small paragraph about the back yard tool shed in the space reserved for the condition of the house roof.
I normally don't down HI's. Around here, they get a bad rap because of the fact that most homes that are about to be inspected don't have any electricity on. How can these guys check out the furnace, a/c unit, house wiring, etc... with no juice? Then when they can't give a report on the electrical, people get mad at THEM. It ain't their fault that the juice is turned off, but they get the flack anyway.
My brother in law is now a real estate agent, and he has this guy's number in a conspicuous place with a note NOT to call him (just in case he forgets who the guy is, and calls out a home inspector and this guy shows up).
Not all HI's are like you. Around here, until a few years ago (2 maybe?) HI could just place a shingle on their door, and be in business. Now, however, they must get licensed (simple process - just take a class for a few weeks, and whamo - instant inspector)
The whole point about the door was the fact that the guy didn't even look at it. Didn't notice that the bathrooms did NOT have a window either (upstairs or downstairs bath - both have no window at all).
He was so bad, the buyer hired her own inspector, and he found some things that needed a little attention. We fixed them in no time at all, and the lady bought the house. She was happy, my sister was happy, and the real estate agent was happy.
I'm not sure if the agent or the new home buyer wound up paying the guy.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Fair enough.It is possible he just changed his report/checklist, but a good inspector should still learn the new material before taking it out on the job.(And there will be times where I still have to hunt down an item in the "checklist" I use - I know exactly where the common stuff is, but sometimes need to hunt the stuff I seldom see.)
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Robert
I know you saw my posts about you being one of the real good HI's so in return.....I'd like you to do a post about Home Inspections here. I find it real important with me being a home renovations guy for over 30 yrs and my wife a real estate broker full time for about twenty.
I think its an important subject. Very important.
Actually I'd like to see you write an article for FHB because I've never seen one.
Be well my brotha
A
N
D
YThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Good idea! Post that in the Editors Corner and/or Feedback on Fine Homebuilding.
Yes, my thanks to you and the others for the kind words.How to find a good home inspector?I'd look for one who has belonged to ASHI at some point. (ASHI has gone off in a strange direction of late and is heavily weighted towards mom & pop inspection companies and has lost a bunch of good people lately) Licensed, if the state requires it, of course, although that is a necessary condition, not a sufficient one.I recommend an HI who carries E&O, not just general liability. There are pros and coins on this issue, but since I have it and many of my competitors don't ....Experienced. AT least 500 or so inspections, in my opinion. I questioned that figure when I first got into the biz, thinking "heck, I'm working with and being trained by guys with well over that level of experience, I can get 'there' quicker," but it isn't just a matter of technical knowledge. A good, established inspection routine, a lot of practice with oral and written disclosure, and a certain feel develop over time. (When I first started, as I was specifically and consciously looking at every individual component, I was running through a mental checklist of what could go wrong to find the problems. Very tiring and slow. Now I mainly "look," and the problems find me, so to speak. A crude description of a change in mental awareness and workings. Kind of a "bere here now" approach {G})I believe communication skills are important, but I don't know how to access them when shopping.I'd ask "what is it you are doing in the inspection?" Every inspector will tell you "look for problems." I think the more important part of the inspection is helping the client understand the house and the problems and the positives to (i) reduce the risks of buying, and (ii) make informed decisions.If the inspector doesn't mention "education" (or something like that) that in his or her sales pitch, dig a little to see if that is part of their approach. (Many HI's are good inspectors and lousy sales people.)Word of mouth is OK, but remember that the average home buyer doesn't have much grounds for comparison. I'd say only about 1/2 of my clients have had prior experience with an HI. Unfortunately , s steady percentage of themm tell me "I didn't know a home inspection could be like this."When asking other home buyers, ask (i) "did you learn a lot?" (ii) "Did you know what do next in the transaction, or did the HI leave you with questions you didn't know how to answer?" (iii) "Did the HI ask you for your input?" (A tough one - I dig a lot during an inspection trying to get a feeling for my client's skills; interests and abilities for home repairs and maintenance; concerns; areas of fear; and whether they are understanding what I am trying to explain. But I do that through "chatter" and I believe many buyers don't realize what is going on. The "people part" is the hardest and most interesting part of the business, IMO>)Ask Realtors. Don't just take what they say for gospel, of course, but they are in the best position to compare evaluate HIs, so if they are basically honest (and, at least in my area, most are) they'll give some good information to consider.Personally, I'd stay away from the "I'm your realtor's worst nightmare " types. And away from those who eschew saying anything positive about the house.Neither is likely to serve the client's best interests, in my opinion.If an HI scares a client away from a house through over-emphasizing or exaggerating the problems, I say that HI is not serving his client's best interests any more than is an inspector who downplays problems.(And the cases of inspectors deliberately overlooking problems to keep Realtors happy is mainly -but not entirely- a myth. The odds are pretty darn high the buyer will discover it pretty soon and the HI then has likely bought that problem.)Personally, I prefer the client to be there and with me during the whole inspection, but not all HI's take that approach.At a minimum, be sure the inspector will go through the entire house with you and show you what is going on, not just sitting down and talking about what s/he saw.FWIW, I like the client there for a couple of reasons. First, I find it is usually easiest and most useful to describe a problem and it's fix on the spot. The level of communication is better and the client is, in most cases, in the best position to understand and to some up with cogent questions about the situation.Second, I want the client to see me in action - to see everything I do and look at and how the process works. Later on, when the client finds some small problem that I overlooked, I believe the client will have a better understanding of how and why stuff gets overlooked.I even try to get the client involved in looking at the house as closely as I am, and tell them to point out anything they have questions about. One, they'll sometimes spot stuff I haven't seen, and, two, when they spot something later on that _we've_ missed, they'll maybe realize that you can't spot everything during the time available.BTW, I also give a guarantee: I guarantee that with the "standard inspection" (I offer an "inspection plus," but no one has ever taken me up on it) I will miss some minor problems. The major thrust of my inspection is too look for major and expensive problems, and to look for conditions which require further analysis by a contractor who specializes in that area.Little stuff gets spotted and dealt with of course, but a client who wants me to find "everything" has to be willing to pay for the time that will take, and that is a heck of a lot more than 2 1/2 - 3 hours (on average.)
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Thanks . You dont share your work very much.
I thought before I took the building inspector job that I wanted to be a HI . You may remember me asking. I did quite a bit of research and found that they were running a game here in this state . Im sure they dont want anymore inspectors.
I now realize the responsibility of an inspector and seems every one keeps comming up with the same type of excuses. Im going to add a little to what you said ; The good contractors screw up plenty and every day someone good screws up. Its not just bad contractors , in fact I dont really know a "bad" contractor. Most of those so called bad have a problem that needs some work. Uneducated is one that nornally always comes up first and seems to be root of most spin offs. They arent bad people. Some have mental problems such as learning disabilities, or social conflict problems. Its up to an inspector to educate the problems , not just point them out. I appreciate your post above about spending time with the homeowner. That makes it a worth while job .
Tim Mooney
Now your just nitpicking;-)
But seriously I think everybody here realizes that there are always a few incompetent people in any trade. And its this relatively small % that gets the attention. Some HI go by the book and that can be a good thing. But I really like to see HI that can spot a trades person who takes pride in their work and is willing to work with them to resolve any issue that the inspection brings up.
You seem like that kind of inspector b/c of your building background. BTW how many inspectors do you know of with a building trade background? Just curious.
So were are those pics of that house from hell you told us abought. Cough up.
Thanks,I'm going to hold off posting the pics. I heard last night that there is a strom brewing between the seller and one of his tenants over claims of possible CO poisoning, and at this point I'm going to err on the side of caution with those pics.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
For what its worth ....Katrina always gives at least TWO HI's for her clients if they ask...same with mortgage brokers.....but usually doesn't recommend me....lol
Be a conflict of interests ( she's beyondddddd ethical)
####N
D
YThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
water heater in the basement with no flue .... left the basement window close to the water heater open so the flue gases could escape.
uncapped line coming off the main waste line? .... Or the waste line put together with duct tape
I called out more problems in that house than just about any other house I've done
I'm a little confused about what kind of individual would be trying to purchase a house like that. Is there a story here untold? This sounds like a place where any potential purchaser would be be able to sense that the place isn't put together in a manner comparable to most any other house. Was this some rental house priced "below market?"
I think conflicts arise most often because part of a HI's job is critiqing our work, naturally on occasion we might get defensive and thats where conflicts escalate.
Obviosly there are also other reasons for conflict such as neglegence on either's side of the fence.
______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
My worst was an Hvac guy who needed to cut a hole in the wall for the chimeny. He had a huge range of space to choose from and we'd framed in a little header and just told him to mark where to cut at the end of the day so that when we got there we could cut it.We arrive the next day and along with a huge mess, he's cut his hole, way bigger than he needed it, and cut almost compleatly through the 2x6 header.I bet that of all of the hack-jobs out there, dewalt 18v sawzalls are responsable for half of them______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Sawzalls dont kill framing, hack subs kill framing.
I am an engineer and a professional home inspector. I am ASHI, ICC and EDI (stucco) certified and hold certifications for mold inspection. I have built homes, commercial buildings and industrial buildings.
Sadly there are HI's in the business that are not qualified to be in the business just as there are contractors that are not qualified. In my state, Georgia; if you want to be a builder or an HI - all you have to do is buy a business license and you are in the business. Hopefully, some day we will have state licensing and proficiency exams for these professions.
I take a lot of pride in my inspections and I feel that I help a lot of people that otherwise do not have a clue about the condition of the house they are trying to purchase. We do not report on cosmetic issues - only defects, which we document and always suggest solutions for repairs. All of our new house inspections are code inspections and the code reference is cited for each code violation reported. We are so confident in our abilities that we give the client a free 90 day warranty with each inspection - it is basically a "we miss it - we fix it" warranty.
Yor resume & procedures sound great, but I'm curious how you handle the inevitable conflict between getting work from Realtors but rporting to homebuyers?
>>but I'm curious how you handle the inevitable conflict between getting work from Realtors but rporting to homebuyers?You addressed that question to John, but I'll toss in my view.About 1/2 of my work is obtained through agents, the other through direct marketing and word of mouth.First, I let my sense of self preservation offer some guidance: if I were to deliberately let stuff slide, my #### would soon be in a sling and my bank account in someone else's name.Second, everyone has potential conflicts of interest in their lives - sometimes the potential is easier to see, but it is always there.*Third, at least in my area, most realtors want a good home inspection for their clients. Partly because they too want to serve their clients and partly because, even though the HI provides a lot of cover for potential liability, it doesn't get them off the hook entirely.As for the sharks, I don't want (or need) their business in the first place, and when I get an inspection where they are involved on either side, I go in with a heightened sense of awareness and caution.Fourth, you know your handling it fairly well when agents call you to inspect houses they or their kids are buying.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
* I recently consulted on a situation for a couple who had bought a house where there were water issues in the crawl space. The house was in an area with a relatively high water table, and the crawl "bowled" down to the middle so the perimeter drains did not get the moisture rising into the bottom of the "bowl."Two contractors had submitted similar bids to excavate the perimeter, shore up the foundation with a "Michigan footer," re-lay the drains and sump, and bring in 40 odd tons of stone. They both wanted $18 -20 thou.What that couple really needed was to have the sump crock lowered about a foot and a drain tile trenched down the middle of the crawl space.Less than $1 thou.Maybe a little internal conflict of interest for those contractors?Were they serving themselves or their prospective clients?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob and everyone else
As I said before my wife always recommends more than one HI so that there is no question of her intentions.
Any agent that gives the phone number of just one person no matter it be a mortgage broker or HI is under suspicion in my eyes.
As Katrina says, " there are only so many HI in our area so....."
Be well
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Does she real RECOMMEND HI's or just given them a list.A friend of mine that says that it can come back to bite them if they recommend any.They have a list and will say that they worked with A, D and F in the past.But like a couple of others have said they want the inspection and what it to be reasonable. They don't want to get a call in 3 months that ther is a problem that and the RE should not have let them buy that house. Or that there is a problem and that the HI that the RE agent RECOMENDED did not find it.
she recommends HI's that she knows are good....that past clients were satisfied with.....she'll also voice her opinion about a cpl that are known deal killers.....that will scare new young buyers by talking about tons of stupid shid that hardly matters.
I met one of the HI's that did that in my last house I was trying to sell....amazing the things he was saying....had my buyer scared to death over lame things most of which weren't true.
I past serious inspections by hard azzed building inspecters so......
Big ego on some of these HI's.
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Bob
theres is no doubt there are a lot of bad apples in the building trade. I think we all bash them pretty well in this forum. When the subject comes up about poor HI's the HI's go on the offensive.
I'm sure you know of some stories about bad inspectors. Why dont you share them with us?
At least there is accountability in the building trade, unlike the HI industry. If a job is poorly done we are obligated to make it right. If an inspection report is inaccurate it is only to the detriment of the HO
When an Inspector tells grandma a house is in perfect order, then she makes the purchase and finds out there is a major problem that will cost here severely, what recourse does she have? What recourse do you think she should have?
I have seen a lot of inspection reports where the HI seems to have spent more time on his disclaimer than on the inspection!
>>I'm sure you know of some stories about bad inspectors. Why dont you share them with us?I rarely see other inspectors at work, so most of the stories I hear are second hand, at best.But, of course, there are some real incompetents out there, and one of the problems is that it is an inefficient marketplace in terms of weeding the incompetents out.>>At least there is accountability in the building trade, unlike the HI industry. If a job is poorly done we are obligated to make it right. If an inspection report is inaccurate it is only to the detriment of the HOThe HI industry is target rich environment.Industry surveys suggest the average HI gets sued every 1,000 inspections (every 2-3 years for a high activity inspector.)Yes, our contracts are full of CYA.sMarket realities require it.The market price for the potential risks is pretty low, so I've got to cut my risk.With every inspection I offer my client a choice: a "standard" inspection with a limit on liability or an "inspection plus" with unlimited liability.I know several other inspectors who do the same. In over 20,000 inspections among us, not 1 person has decided to pay the additional dollars for the unlimited liability.My E&O (& I've never been sued) is over $3000.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"What the couple really needed was to have the sump crock lowered by a foot and a drain tile trenched down the middle of the crawl space"
A good suggestion, would it not have been more professional to recommend a Civil Engineer with a back ground in drainage to really look at the problem and get their recommendation?
I have made my share of recommendations for different concerns of my clients but I will back it up by "let me ask the pro who ever it may be" to se what they think.
Bob, Maybe you should hold a town meeting with your local contractors and educate them on what a HI is for. Get it all in the open so we as builders and remodelers can have little more info to pass onto our customers.
I can't predict the future but if I was a HI dare I say I would solicit home owners under going renovations to have it inspected by me to assure there was no minor mistakes that will be major ones in time. But then I would Have to be able to read a blueprint....
Thanks
PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
>> would it not have been more professional to recommend a Civil Engineer with a back ground in drainage to really look at the problem and get their recommendation? Not when I know what they will say.I will, when appropriate, recommend specialists when a specilaist level of knowledge is needed.There are two soils around here and one topography: flat. The issues and factors are pretty straight forward and in this case I didn't see a need to just make the folks spend more money where not needed.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob,
I appreciate the honesty, but I will always ask the ARCY when I know what they will say it sometimes backs me up or drive me forward when it comes to homeowners concerns You have to admit the pro might have a totally different idea than what we may assume.
I am a builder/carpenter not an designer. minor fixes no problem... major concerns not a chance,
PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
>>You have to admit the pro might have a totally different idea than what we may assume.That's what you are missing, perhaps: as an HI I spend a lot of time learning when a pro/specialist is needed and when not.As in any area, one has to learn what one doesn't know and refer appropriately.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I didn't miss the fact that you have the knows of when to call in the pro.
My concerns are with the industry mostly, at this juncture I agree with most of what you have replied to. I can only hope that I get a chance to know a Hi with your qualifications.
Seems the HI's I have the rare occasion to meet have a better than thou attitude which we both know we are called to be witnesses not lawyers or judges
Swaybrace
PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
Edited 1/26/2005 11:06 pm ET by swaybrace
Ok , Ive made light of this thread and had some clean fun with my story. I feel like its time to interject my thoughts for serious.
Ive had a building inspector bashing on here and now guess what . You are doing a fine job as usual. I wouldnt expect anything less from you. Ive told you before that Id take an inspection from you or feel at ease if you did it . You knew that already.
My thoughts are that,... is there a flag here ? These people are serious about their experiences. They sound bad too, really bad. You have been asked about it and you really passed it by saying you arent with the others or see their work , [ er something to that effect . Im not going back to quote as you would.]
Bob , straight up , is there a problem out there with home inspectors being incompetent ? If there is then that industry suffers and it should be a solid industry because there is a great need in qualified inspectors.
Is there a professional reason you dont want to fully answer it ? I know enough about you to know , YOU KNOW.
Tim Mooney
>>is there a problem out there with home inspectors being incompetent ? If there is then that industry suffers and it should be a solid industry because there is a great need in qualified inspectors.>>Is there a professional reason you dont want to fully answer it ?I thought I had answered it.Yes, there is a problem with too many incompetent HI's out there. There is a problem with too many in competent HVAC contractors out there. There is a problem ... etc.I worked for several years to get a meaningful licensing bill passed in Ohio. I wasn't completely happy with the bill we proposed, it was too easy in my view to get into the business, but it was a lot better than the current state of affairs.The messages I have opposed are the ones that say, directly or indirectly, that the whole industry is a scam and/or all home inspectors are worthless.There are several things that cause the industry to be criticized.One is that there are too many incompetent HIs out there. In my experience, it takes about 1-2 years for market forces to weed most of them out. In the meantime, a lot of folks get or see bad inspections.Two is that people often jump to conclusions. I can guarantee you there is a plumber in Toledo toady telling everyone he sees what an incompetent inspector I am. I inspected a house in late Nov, the buyer just moved in and found a huge crack in a waste line right next to the washer/dryer. About 5' long and up to 1/4" wide. She called the plumber and called me.The plumber,Who was leaving as I arrived, doesn't know what the conditions were during the inspection, and didn't see the photo I took showing that section of the basement, with stored items packed to the ceiling (the whole basement was packed with storage) completely hiding that waste line.And often, people don't understand some of what we do, like inspecting steel studs for termite "damage."If the inspector was looking at steel for damage, he was a fool; if he was looking fore evidence of termites, he was doing a good job.Which was it?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I've been reading along for 70 posts ....time to wade in.
As an owner operator of a building center/hardware store, I was asked out to inspect a lot of situations....including checking out houses for potential buyers.
Then Illinois passed a home inspector law and mandated licensing requirements, which I could not grandfather into.....so as an after thought when I sold the business I decided to put my knowledge to work and become an HI.
I enrolled in an Illinois acredited "school" to attain my needed course hours...went to a ten day continuous class to qualify, and then took the Illinois License test. I have a license.
Here is what amazed me about the classes.....37 students, myself and two others had some sort of experience in the building industry...the rest hadn't a clue. But in ten days they "taught the test" and the system of making a business as a HI.
Many of those in the class had affiliations with realtors and were there as "pets" for the use of the agents that were tired of having their deals killed.
I do not inspect to please anyone but the potential buyer.....my name does not appear on many of the realtor offices list...I refuse to mediate my report to make the sale go forward.
I see that the public has a need for Home inspection....but I also see that the HI industry has a problem as discussed in the seventy posts above.
The infrastructure of the HI industry has generated a secondary industry that costs lots of money....tests, school, continuing education, O&E insurance, advertising, professional memberships....etc......$$$$ are the end goal.
Little room is given for intergrity of service, save for the few honest and conscientious persons that do a good job of inspecting.
The goals I often hear: ..."make that sale happen"....."soften what you say"... ...."don't spend too much time with the client"....."make it (the report)short and sweet"......"keep the details to a minimum".....the innuendos never cease and the pressure to conform relates to repeat business.
Yes, the industry has a problem. And I don't think it is only in Illinois.
.............Iron Helix
The infrastructure of the HI industry has generated a secondary industry that costs lots of money....tests, school, continuing education, O&E insurance, advertising, professional memberships....etc......$$$$ are the end goal.
Thats what I meant by Im sure they dont want any more inspectors.
I thought I would buy the "books " to take the test. There are no set of books . There is no text book. In Arkansas. You have to buy the school either correspondance or travel to a school and stay for two weeks. If you dont go to a school you are not acredited. hmmm Arkansas doesnt require inspections so its pretty much up to the buyers choice. This state is a poor state and this area is rural which gets poorer. Inspections are for people that have the cash in the bank to pay for an inspection and not miss the money. That aint here.
Who ever sits on the board determines the industry future . They have made it pretty tough . Now maybe I see why . Its a shame that any one with 5000 dollars and two weeks off can be a home inspector too. I think it was to eliminate people who arent serious , but thats not the total effect is it ?
I have advised several people and looked at their houses like you did . This industry you and Bob talk about tried to ban people like me and they went to the legislature and got a licensing law passed . But , a licensed contractor in this state can inspect his trade . I can inspect structures . But Im not qualified to take a HI test with out being accredited. They did this last year I believe loosen the restrictions on building inspectors and contractors both licensed in their state. Hmm , Im both. Its really funny to me , but it looks like Im going to have to take two weeks off and spend five thousand to get "accredited", or shut the f up.
Tim Mooney
There are "books"...but you receive them after you enroll in "the classes"!$$
Want to borrow mine?....won't do any good...you are missing your "certification"!
They do not allow you to "proficiency" past the certificate....possibly for some initially good reasons. The legislative intent was to instill a basic methodology with attached performance criteria so as to present a common based inspection format to the public. Actually a good format...if it is followed.
Your area suffers economically as the the deep southern end of Illinois where I live. This socio-economic environment produces results and consequences that are difficult. Survival is based upon small amounts of money....living at poverty level is a major challenge. A home inspection is a nonaffordable luxury.
My HI school was held in Memphis....and over half of the class was from Arkansas...none with any hands-on experience in the building field, except for two firemen that worked for a contractor on their "days off". Several attendees were claiming to have an "in" with a realtor, or were realtors and planned to switch occupations.
Yes, it has become a $$$ game and often has little to do with giving what is needed to the house purchasing public...a safe guard to prevent the unknowing from being duped.
Althought the legislative intent was good, the results are less than good and often unfair.
I refuse to bend to the hints that I should lower my ethics and standards in order to be included in the house selling/buying process within this region.
I have talked with other inspectors at assorted meetings and hear that there are some places that have a better attitude about the inspectors and inspections of homes. The positive social environments that were spoken about were generally in educated effluent communities.
So what do we do, Mr. Mooney??
Tilting at windmills is tiring and unrewarding!
You want to be a home inspector...I am one.....one both live in a poor domain...move to this side of the fence and you may still be unhappy.
Life is soon too short in this imperfect world.
I prefer to mellow out and still keep my lifelong ethics....Iron Helix
That was a pretty good piece of writing. Well defined.
The school I would attend is also Memphis. That one or Dallas .
If I do it , it will because I wanted to, not because of a good business decision.
Tim Mooney
90% of the realtors I work with are buyers agents and are concerned about their clients and want my inspection to be thorough and accurate. They would actually prefer to walk away from a problem house. We live in a litigious society and they know they can be sued by the buyer for undisclosed issues with a house.
The other 10% are not realtors but are used house salesmen. I work for the client - not for the realtor. I have an ethetical and professional responsibility to the client who is paying my fee. Some realtors (used house salesmen) do not like to use me as a result - however, they always call me when they are the ones buying the house.
I have seen good and bad home inspecters throughout the years. Most all have been ASHI certified. Their certification seemed to make little difference.
One I had on a steel structure house I was selling was in the basement for a long time. I went down to see what he was up to and he was "carefully" examining each and every steel joist. When I asked what he was looking for he replied "termite damage"
I quickly asked what species of termites eats steel.
I'm curious - is it all steel? No wood anywhere? And did he say "termite damage" or "signs of termites?"I've seen termites cross lots of inedible stuff to get to the tasty stuff using tubes.
There have been plenty of times when I've said or done stupid stuff, but even more times where folks just thought what I was doing was stupid because they didn't understand what I was saying or doing.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 1/25/2005 11:25 am ET by Bob Walker
A little off topic, but...
How are corrections handled in you area?
I have done corrective repairs for both the seller and after the sale for the buyer. Mostly minor stuff, but some structural, electrical, and plumbing. Sometimes I get estimated cost along with the reports, and other time not. Seems to be no rime nor reason for that aspect of it.
Most always there is a reinspection after the work is complete. Is that a standard practice, or just regional?
Dave
Asd an HI, I tell 'em what I'm finding in the house, butr soince I don't know the parties or the deal, I don't usually advuse them as to who should do what - that's for them and their agent to decide.Sometimes I'm asked to go out to do a reinspect, for which I charge; I often recommend that they require that the work be done by a liscenced specialist (electrical, heating, plumbing) inb which case I tell them to get a receipt show it was done by a liscensed professional on whom they should be able to rely, but even there I may be asked to reinspect.In my area wood destroying insect treatments are almost always born by the seller, as well as radon mitigation..
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Let me say that I have had similar experiences with home inspectors and I feel your pain. I have worked in the industry for over 20 years myself and place home inspectors just slightly above lawyers on the food chain. One thing that I find interesting is that in my state (where my sister is a licensed real estate agent and appraiser) home inspectors are not liable for anything they report. If an inspector reports that the furnace is great and it craps out the day after the closing - the inspector suffers no recourse. Personally I think that this is just shy of fraud. At the very least it certainly qualifies as a raquet. The banks require an inspection before they will provide a mortgage but the inspection report carries no legal weight? I think that if home inspections are to be done then each area of inspection should be performed by someone qualified for that particular area. Roofers who get an inspectors license should not be allowed to inspect HVAC systems unless they prove a certain degree of expertise.
Good Enough isn't.
>>If an inspector reports that the furnace is great and it craps out the day after the closing - the inspector suffers no recourse. Personally I think that this is just shy of fraud.Yeah, you're absolutely right.BTW, where do you buy your crystal balls? The one's I get from the ads in the back of the comic book never seem to work....
>> place home inspectors just slightly above lawyers on the food chain.
And where would you put an ex-lawyer who does insepctions?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 1/26/2005 12:13 pm ET by Bob Walker
an ex-lawyer who does inspections??? Lord help us all!!!! Good Enough isn't.
Damn! You`re about as rough on HI s as Keith C is on building inspectors.
Im going back to a neutral corner.
Tim Mooney
an ex-lawyer who does inspections??? Lord help us all!!!!
I need to be working in this office but your post after thinking about it tickeled a story
. Of course I was thinking about Keith C too. No offense to either ,.........
I got a call after I had run my paper route some 35 years ago. Man was mad as h&ll. Evidently I had wronged him by showing up late and not placing his paper on the porch which he had asked me to do repeatedly in notes with his checks. You sorry peice of Sh*t , Im canceling my subscription!!!!!!!!! Cancel the damn thing right now ~!!!!! Do you hear me ???????!!!!!!!!!!!! [yes sir] Im going to subscribe to the South West Times and Ill never take the Democrat again! [OK, would you like for me to set that account up now ? ] What??? [ Well, theres two state papers thrown in the city and I handle them both. The reason your paper was late is becuse I signed the contract last week on the South West and its taking me a while to learn to throw that route and also to throw two papers at once . You can understand . The reason I dont put it on the porch is becuse Im throwing two papers and Im having trouble getting the route covered now in time. The regulations say I must put it on your property or you may buy a paper mail box at the street. But at any rate I wont be slowing down to turn into your circle drive at 55 miles per hour.
He called the paper and complained and the paper came to see me . My contract was good . They changed it after I quit .
The moral of the story is that he bought it from the rack because he was having trouble getting away from me .
The reason its funny is because of the obvious , and I made an extra nickel out of the rack and didnt roll it or throw it.
Back to me corner.
Tim Mooney
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking the reason you don't like HIs or lawyers is that they tghink too much in stereotypes.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 1/26/2005 5:58 pm ET by Bob Walker
I would have to say that the reason I don't like HI's is that they usually have a limited amount of knowledge but they seem to think that they are the worlds foremost authority on everything to do with a house.
Granted - maybe there are some out there who can make this claim and back it up - but as of yet I haven't met any of them.
I believe someone has already quoted the age old addage..."Those who can - do and those who can't - inspect"
As for lawyers - well there isn't enough time for that....Good Enough isn't.
>>I would have to say that the reason I don't like HI's is that they usually have a limited amount of knowledge but they seem to think that they are the worlds foremost authority on everything to do with a house.Interesting observation.Almost every HI I know is very conscious and deliberate to hold him or herself out as a generalist only.Every reporting system I've seen emphasizes that point, as does every seminar I've attended.Are you sure you're responding to what HI's actually say and do? Or are you responding to what you think they say and do?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Well I certainly see your point - however I can only speak from the experiences I have had with home inspectors.
I am sure that for every knucklehead inspector there are several who are quite honest and competent. Good Enough isn't.
>> The banks require an inspection before they will provide a mortgage but the inspection report carries no legal weight?Where is that?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I live and work in the biggest little state in the union...Rhode Island - but I don't brag about it!!!!Good Enough isn't.
No Pain No Gain when it comes to H.I. I have been hired by realtors in the past to look at some damage to houses and give estimates on the repair or repairs if needed. I have suggested to potential home buyers that if they want to spend their hard earned money on a HI, they should consider having the experts to exam the furnace, the electric, and plumbing, and on some homes pay to have the sewer cameraed, this area is always overlooked , could be costly in the future.
Let the good HI do their job and educate the not so fortunate onesPRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T
>>I think that if home inspections are to be done then each area of inspection should be performed by someone qualified for that particular area.That is certainly would be a very comprehensive approach (although you'd have to include someone with knowledge in how the systems interact and work as a whole, which many in the trades don't have.)And, of course, there are very few folks who will spend the kind of money necessary to get a specialist in each system.And, in many cases, the client might not be well served.The mind set of many contractors is, understandably: build it to code. They often will say "That x, y, z doesn't meet code" and create the impression in the client that the house is deficient and has to be upgraded.The practical reality is that no one can insist an older house be upgraded to today's code, but if a contractor creates the wrong impression the the buyer's mind, the buyer is doomed to a futile search to meet an impossible standard.It is not unusual for buyers to bring a friend in the trades, an electrician, plumber, etc. to an inspection.I can assure you that they usually don't have a clue what a home inspection is intended to do and they usually end up creating impossible expectations.Given the attitudes you have expressed, I'm not sure if you will believe this, but there is a process and a skill to doing home inspections, and just because someone has some area of technical skill doesn't mean that they are qualified to do an inspection or advise and educate the buyers.
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I have had to "deal" with inspectors comments on a few house that I have sold. In almost every point that they brought up, they were either did not know what they were reporting about, just plain wrong or needed to find something to justify their report which by the way was a modified report of the prior home they just inspected.
I believe that all home inspectors are like college professors...no one in the real business world would hire them so this is the only job they could get.
Those who can,.. do it.... those who cant.. teach..... A old framer said that to me, ask what I want to do teach or do it? I said both, he said then get to work.
Have you ever had a twenty or so HI? I have Man I tell you I couldn't refrain from grinning the hole time at him.... Only report I had that never had anything wrong home
Swaybrace
PRAISE THOSE WHO KNOW,ALONG WITH THOSE WHO DON"T