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Home sealing Part 2

agewon | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on March 5, 2009 02:06am

I hope this part one and part two series doesn’t annoy people, but I hope it helps sort the two subjects, which coinside. <!—-><!—-><!—->

    I live in a 2300 sq/ft side hall Colonial in New Jersey built in the 60’s, and plan to be here for a while, so I plan to spend some time and money now to save it in the future.  Part 2 is dealing with the “Insulation” of my house.

II’m not sure of the quality of our insulation on exterior walls, but am not impressed with the Attic insulation.  Half of the attic has craft faced between the 2×6 joists, and the other half of the house has what appears to be little styrofoam balls, the size of BB’s.  I have never seen it before, and am not comfortable having it.  But that is more of Part 1’s topic.

My issue is the exterior walls.  I’m a hardcore DIY’er and will take on anything, given the proper knowlege base. 

Can you blow cellulose insulation into a cavity with fiberglass?  Opening up a small 3-4″ hole in each bay from the inside is no problem since i will be remodeling each room one by one and adding Crown.  What other options do I have?  I really want to stay away from spray foam due to cost. 

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  1. MikeHennessy | Mar 05, 2009 03:53pm | #1

    AFAIK, your only option is to live with what you have, or strip the walls, pull it out and re-do it from scratch. I don't think you can blow cells or foam into a cavity with existing batts.

    Mike Hennessy
    Pittsburgh, PA

  2. GRCourter | Mar 05, 2009 04:55pm | #2

    If you are going to live there for a while and spend some time and money why not strip the walls and foam the cavities?

  3. Jay20 | Mar 05, 2009 11:15pm | #3

    There are some foam companies specializing in foaming existing framing. They drill various holes and inject the foam in a number of levels in the cavity. The pressure compresses the batt insulation somewhat. The process defiantly air seals the framing. I would get an energy audit before going down this path first to see if you have a curable situation.

    1. CJM | Mar 06, 2009 01:03am | #4

      Cool.
      I didn't know it was possible to foam like that.
      I'll have to find someone in the Atlanta area.

      1. Jay20 | Mar 06, 2009 04:48am | #8

        I had it done to my house. Two contractors in the Cincinnati area  do it. The reason I suggested having an energy audit before having it done was even though the workmen were conscientious doing their jobs I could see not much material was going in. My insulation was pretty good and I really did not need it done. An audit might point to just some areas where it would be beneficial and you might not have to do the whole house.

  4. MikeSmith | Mar 06, 2009 01:04am | #5

    agewon....  is  that an  old  Narragansett  indian  name ?

    i'd  try  one  room... rent  a  blower...drill  your  holes   ....say  one  16"  from the floor, one  16"  from the  ceiling

     

    set  the  air  control  valve  to  almost  wide  open... so  you  are  blowing  a lot  more  air  than  cellulose

     

    assuming  these  are  batt  fiberglass,  it  will have  some  cohesion...  AND  if it  is  kraft  faced,  even  better,  get  the  nozzle  between  the  facing   and  the  wallboard 

     

    as  the  cells  blow  in they  will compress  the  fiberglass  and   create  additional  paths  for  the  cells... it  almost  flows   like  water....  or  a  syrup..

      see if  you  think  you  are  blowing  to  the center  of  the bay...  then  move  to  the   top  hole.. if  you  really  want  to  improve your  blow... bore  a center  hole  also.... go   bottom,  top,  middle   .... in  every  bay

    keep  an  accurate  bag  count...  the  bags  are  all stamped  with the  weight   per  bag  (  bale )  when  you've  blown  one  wall...  figure  out   how many  bays  you did

    subtract  the   studs   and  that  will give  you  the  area....   your  weight  tally   will allow  you  to  calculate  how may  pounds  per   sf  you  actually  got

    based  on  that  you  can  make  a determination  if  it's   worth  your  while  to  keep  going

    my  guess is... yes... unless  your  time  is  valuable... it  will cost  you  the rental, some  cellulose  and  some  patching... but it should  make  a difference

     

    whadda  ya  think ?

    Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore



    Edited 3/5/2009 5:06 pm ET by MikeSmith

    1. agewon | Mar 06, 2009 03:58am | #6

      Agewon derives from my nickname, Adrian=Age, and Won is because when people asked " Who won the pool game", the response was "Age won".

      I think your plan is very reasonable and plan to try it after a few more questions.  I am currently doing my daughters room and as of now, have had to patch lots of holes and nail-popping, so what the heck right?

      What do you recommend as the media?  Cellulose or fiberglass?  My local box store is pushing blown fiberglass, and i am worried about my exterior passing too much moisture.

      What are the recommended lbs/ft per bay?  I undersrtand your formula, however dont know if a bay has better R-Value with cellulose, or batts.  In otherwords, if compressing batts reduces the R-value, will blowing in the cellulose compress the batts to the point of negating their R-Value, but the compressed batting take up enough volume to negate the supposed R-Value of the blown insulation?  WOW, my head just spun! 

      1. MikeSmith | Mar 06, 2009 04:37am | #7

        age

        <<<<<What are the recommended lbs/ft per bay?  I undersrtand your formula, however dont know if a bay has better R-Value with cellulose, or batts.  In otherwords, if compressing batts reduces the R-value, will blowing in the cellulose compress the batts to the point of negating their R-Value, but the compressed batting take up enough volume to negate the supposed R-Value of the blown insulation>>>>

        you just changed your goal  and the target... your original question was "  is it worth doing ?"

        1st... fiberglass  is  bad insulation

        2d  what you have is inadequate

        your choice

        leave the plaster and blow thru holes....or....

        take the plaster off and start over

        the fiberglass is useless... or next to useless.... exchanging the volume occupied by the useless fiberglass with dens-pak cells will improve the  insulation  in the wall

         

         

        after you do one wall, you can make a subjective judgement as to wether you think you improved it and was it worth the effort

        your  choiceMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        1. agewon | Mar 06, 2009 05:09am | #9

          Mike,

          you just changed your goal  and the target... your original question was "  is it worth doing ?"

          You're ablosultly right :)  I guess i should have said that i really liked your approach.  However, not that I am questioning you experience or your method, but questioning my own preconceived notions of insulation. 

          I guess what you are saying is that even though you wont be getting as much "volume" of cellulose in the wall with the batting, it's still better than what I have, which is my goal.  I plan to do as you said and try one room, and see the cost/benefit.

          I also think that an energy audit at this time is useless for me. since I still have several windows and doors to replace.  I read in an article that drafts from windows and doors, regardless of age and condition, are caused by air leakage in the home, through the walls and attic, thus "pulling" from the path of least resistance.  IMO, since i plan to change the windows, which should improve "exchange", i still need to treat the problem.  But this refers more to part 1.

          1. MikeSmith | Mar 06, 2009 05:38am | #11

            age.... think damage control on a ship... first thing you want to do is get a patch on the hole .... then go after the leaks

             

            a blower  door test will show you where to start...  go for the air sealing.... then work on the walls

            and   think about this... your old windows with storm windows are about an r-2

            modern windows  about r-3

            that crummy wall with the bad fiberlass might be r-10

            another  bad example would be triage.... set your prioritiesMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      2. cargin | Mar 06, 2009 05:27am | #10

        agewon

        I agree with Mike about trying one room first.

        I have insulated existing walls with fiberglass on a number of occasions. We were always disappointed with the amount of insulation we got in the wall.

        We used a 1.5" wall insulating tube. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=117095.29

        Sometimes the tube would snake past the FG and up the wall and other times it would ball up the FG and that make matters worse.

        Your biggest problem is finding a good machine and good equipment. For discussion on that read http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=117095.11

        I am not sure what Mike Smith is suggesting. But if you are going to punch 3 -1" or 2" holes in the wall, stick the nozzle in the hole and try to blow thru the FG then you are dreaming. The cellulose is going to catch on the FG and quit flowing.

        I am all for trying to get more insulation in a wall, but don't get your hopes up. And search for good equipment. My lumberyard machines are usually pretty pathetic for anything but blowing an attic. Even then it is an hour to get the machine to run and find all the right connections.

        If you compress the FG with a good cellulose good job you will improve your R-Value and cut down on air inflitration. It takes an empty wall and a good machine  to get a true desnse pack though.  

        Rich

  5. BigBill | Mar 06, 2009 07:19am | #12

    http://www.retrofoam.com/

     

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