This is a thread about Fine Hoopbuilding. A hoophouse is a semi-permanent structure of Sch. 40 PVC ribs and construction plastic – oh, hell, let’s call it “visqueen” – a compromise between a $$$$ greenhouse and throwing your garden on the mercy of the weather gods. I’ve measured a 30-degree increase from outside to inside on a faintly overcast day in Spring, e.g. 55 degrees to 85 degrees and reckon the hoophouse offers an extra month of frost-free days at either end of the growing season.
Here’s the prototype, 12×18, outside and in. This edition taught me a lot about what the structural weaknesses were and how plants performed in it.
Edited 5/15/2008 3:24 am by splintergroupie
Replies
The old, outside beds were rotted and the hoophouse had to go. New beds were built of pressure-treated 2x8 material. Extra dirt and compost were hauled in to fill the third bed as these beds were made deeper than the former ones because carrots would build up a head of steam in the fluffy dirt in the beds and slam into the ground underneath while the beets snickered. Root crop rivalries can get pretty vicious.
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Once the beds were filled, a 2x4 was glued (poly) and screwed on the flat to the outside edges of the outside beds. This was drilled with a 1-3/8" spade bit on approx. 3' centers (17 ribs over 49'). I placed the holes so that the edge of the 2x8 acted as a stop for the PVC rib.
1/2" PVC pipe, cut into 2' long stakes, was pounded into the dirt through the holes, leaving about 10" above the level of the 2x4. The conduit was placed over the stakes and into the holes. (One belled end had to be sawn off first.) A screw through the edge of the 2x4, through both the conduit and the stake, secured the ribs in place. Without the stake, the conduit was way floppy.
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Edited 5/15/2008 4:11 am by splintergroupie
The hoops went up quickly.
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The tops of the PVC ribs were painted white to stay cooler and because the PVC seems to react with the visqueen, making it more brittle where it contacts the ribs. As long as i was at it, i went a little cuckoo with the rainbow-color spray paint.
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The doors were given to me. I'm expecting to replace them eventually with storm doors with self-storing windows to have easier control of the breezes/temps. But hey, they were free...
The framing was a little asymmetrical on this end of the hoophouse because the ground was not level. The 'studs' were sunk into the ground about a foot and the ribs were fastened to the tops of the studs with pipe clamps.
Edited 5/15/2008 4:35 am by splintergroupie
Hey, Walter...got yer popcorn? <G>
The end panels had to be sturdied up. The old hoophouse had gotten pushed around by the wind pretty hard, which ruined the door, tore the visqueen, deformed the ribs, etc. I also needed something to staple the visqueen to.
Here you see the additional framing around the arch. I made boxes and plywood panels to fit between the studs for racking resistance. I figured they'd come in handy for storing tools, twistees, incense, grasshopper net...
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I was able to salvage some decent plastic off the old hoophouse for the end panels, which brings me to the reason for making the hoophouse 49 feet long: i can get two helpings of the 'tube' visqueen from the 20x100 roll HD sells for $80, if i can use salvage plastic on the end panels. Economisering...
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The inside of an end panel showing how i've temporarily tacked the plastic to the frame, which looks too tacky to suffer looking at.
Note the two pieces of 1/2" metal conduit from the corners of the door back to the bed. They were way more effective at making the whole thing solid than i even had hoped and made putting the door frame in plane a snap. The ends are sunk in holes drilled in the door frame and bed, then secured with a screw through the conduit into the wood.
Now you see why the center bed is shorter. Something i learned with the old hoophouse is that the door is less likely to be torn off its hinges if it doesn't open outward.
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Edited 5/15/2008 5:03 am by splintergroupie
Very nice structure you've got there !!
Will you leave the stuff in there all season or start there and then replant some outside in June ?
Does it ever get too hot if you leave some stuff in ?
When will you plant most things ?
Thanks for all the pictures.
Walter
You caught me!
I have a pretty good set-up in my solarium in the house for starting seedlings where it's warmer. I began planting flats at the end of March when we can still get bitter cold that would prevent most things from germinating even in the hoophouse, which is unheated.
Oddly enough, last year i planted cole crops (cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccoli) in the hoophouse although they are supposed to like cooler temps, but they grew astonishingly fast and huge with very tight heads. So much for conventional wisdom! Chard leaves 2 feet long...looked like Jurassic Park in there...and then the grasshoppers came. :^(
I didn't have screens on the last hoophouse, just opened the door, and had lots of insects i battled all season. I've just ordered some green lacewings, a beneficial insect that eats aphids, etc. These doors have full screens, too, so the glass will get switched out in about a month for ventilation without insects...i hope.
I'm going to town for the rest of my irrigation partz, then i'll start planting tomorrow if all goes according to plan. I decided to grow the vine squashes up the ribs...should look cool.
Edited 5/15/2008 6:04 am by splintergroupie
Imagine Duane having 57 varities of peppers in his!!
What type of yield can you expect from a set up of that size, and can you get two plantings of some stuff??
Two plantings...maybe snap peas, radishes, spinach...early and late lettuce. Everything else will take the whole season, since we get frost in September.
When i tore the old hoophouse apart, i was surprised to find broccoli and cabbage had overwinted and were sprouting again!
Yield...i'm going to keep track of what i harvest this year and i also will tally up the cost of making this when i'm finished with the irrigation system. I had a lot of the stuff lying around, but i still roughly reckon i've put about a thousand dollars into it. Once i figure the yield, it'll be interesting to see what the payback period is.
Edited 5/15/2008 6:00 am by splintergroupie
More to come tomorrow....drip irrigation system is nearly ready...
More to come tomorrow....drip irrigation system is nearly ready...
So are you collecting the rainwater into a cistern and using a little windmill to pump it into the greenhouse?
You get a fair amount of sunshine year round out there, don't you? Wonder if you could rig up some kind of solar heating deal. Have a few loops running through the beds and then out to some jerry-rigged black painted tank. wonder if that would heat up the beds enough to extend your growing season?jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I haven't collected rainwater and probably won't in a place that gets 13" of precip a year. Officially, i live in a desert.
I've been planning to stick a thermometer in the dirt now that it's been enclosed a few days and the soil should be warm as it's likely to get this time of year. Things like peppers get stunted if the soil temp hasn't gotten to 55 degrees. It would be a dandy experiment to do just one bed with a buried solar-heated loop and see how much soil heat is gained over just being radiantly warmed from the top. Thanks for the great idea!
Between that and Rez's solar dryer, i could just abandon my house and move out there. There's a fellow i know on the craft fair circuit who is involved with Growing Spaces, a geodesic dome plan with a water heat sink in which people can also raise fish if they're inclined. He's in Helena, MT, a full gardening zone harsher climate than mine, and it's lovely all year inside from reports i've heard. I need to take a journey over the mountains and see for myself, work the winter kinks out of the Vanagon...
Love it!
Looks like alotta fun (and hard work).
Oughtta be plenty of payback from it.
One question as I don't do much (read any) gardening.
Isn't the pressure treated lumber you used for the planters a concern in regards to leaching?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Isn't the pressure treated lumber you used for the planters a concern in regards to leaching?
I read up on that and ACQ (i spent $40 just on the special screws for it) lumber isn't supposed to leach. Yeah, the CCA wasn't supposed to leach either, but i'm thinking that given the suspicion of leaching, the ACQ was vetted more closely in that regard. Time will tell on that point.
One of the proposed alternatives is to line the beds with plastic so soil doesn't touch the chemically treated wood. In view of plastic itself not having a great record of not leaching chemicals - pthylates, BPA leaching from food-grade plastic and kids' toys is the latest relevant revelation - i wasn't very secure that lumber wraps or visqueen wouldn't do worse. Then there is the fact that some of the stuff used to treat wood, like copper, is actually necessary to plants, though i claim utter ignorance about the chemistry involved in treating/leaching wood compared to adding trace-minerals as a soil amendment. And even is something is toxic to humans, can it be taken up by a plant and passed on to humans? Lots of unanswered question when i went looking for that very information you ask about.
Some folks insist on using plastic lumber like TREX in place of treated wood. That plastic surely is not high-grade and frankly was cost prohibitive. I buy a treated 2x8x8' for $9 while a 16' piece of TREX decking is $32 and wouldn't be strong enough to rest my fanny on while working the beds. I'd used old corral poles in the last bed and found out untreated wood lasts about three years before disintegrating.
The poly water line is rated for potable water, but who knows about that, either, especially when it gets hot? I used lumber wraps as a potent mulch before, but i have an inexhaustible source of soy-ink newspaper now so i'm switching to this compostible mulch. Indoors, i don't think the black color will be necessary, but it was essential for heating the ground when i had outdoor beds. I should do a control of black plastic inside, just to check my theory, though.
Sorry to hear of the rivalry between the carrots and the beets . I hope they're able to resolve their "root envy".(-:I have a suggestion for ya. How about you keep up on this thread, like I have on the farming thread? Post pics as you plant stuff, it comes up, and you harvest it. I'll bet it would be a popular one. You have a lot of knowledge about this stuff that you could teach us - Probably more than you realize.
He's not stupid - He's just "reality impaired"
How about you keep up on this thread, like I have on the farming thread?
A mini-farm thread...hmmm, it might fly! I could take shots from the same location, like time-lapse photography.
I've stumbled around gardening for years, but this year i decided to go big or go home. Notchman is the master gardener who's been inspiring me to get studious about organic methods....i used to just plant enough to lose some.
I've thought a lot about your thread and David's information on trees. I'm going to do my very best to stay organic, but i have grasshopper and aphid pests that have caused substantial woe to the garden in the past. I've ordered a couple thousand green lacewings, a soft bodied-insect predator for the aphids, to be released inside after i've planted the seedlings as part of my biological control approach on that pest. Now to study up on grasshopper killing grasshoppers with kindness....maybe some Mormon seagulls.... <G>
Edit for proper puncturation...
Edited 5/15/2008 1:40 pm by splintergroupie
Notchman is the master gardener who's been inspiring me to get studious about organic methods
Do you have a compost pile?jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Do you have a compost pile?
I do, but i don't have much to compost as a single person. I was using some ersatz compost bins made of two old garbage cans with the bottoms rusted out and they composted faster than i could fill 'em....they just never got full. I filled most of the last bed with rotted grass a neighbor offered me, and tossed dirt on top. The squash will grow in that bed as they can live on rouger fare than the peas and carrots can.
That's why i bought the mushroom compost. I've used it before and it's awesome and not expensive in my estimation: $37.50 to completely fill my long-bed Toyota to where the springs were pleading. And it's sterile - no worries about hauling in manure from animals that might have been fed Tordon, a popular herbicide in these parts that stays potent for three years in #### and destroys a garden for that long. BTDT
And i get all those antibiotics from the chicken manoodle...i can step on all the rusty nails i wanna! <G>
I can remember seeing a special a while back on RFDTV about compost operations. Farmers or such who have started doing some composting on a goodly scale (using front loaders to turn it). One guy was picking up all the spoiled stuff from the grocery stores and restaurants. I think another one had a meat packer nearby and he was getting carcasses and 'bits'. Another one had a hog (or cattle) operation and needed a way to deal with the waste, so started the composting side business.
But anyway, just amazing what you can make disappear into a compost pile. And just amazing at the rich stuff you're left with.
IIRC, when I was a kid, dad made the compost pile out of concrete blocks. Put a block down, leave a gap, put the next block down. The next row of blocks covered the gaps and so on (no mortar, just the weight of the blocks). It seemed to work real well.
If you're serious about getting a goodly compost pile going, it isn't hard to get enough material. Just let folks know you want it and some will even deliver.
And i get all those antibiotics from the chicken manoodle...i can step on all the rusty nails i wanna!
And maybe you can develop mutant, bionic earthworms! Big around as garden hose! Able to enrich a planting bed in 2 hours or less.jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I like the concrete block idea very much bec it would be a good heat sink, too, and i'm old enough i like things i can pick up one-at-a-time, LOL! It'd be simple to leapfrog one side over the other to form a new bin to turn the pile, too. I've used wood pallets before, stood on end. That works, but it's almost as ugly as my soon-to-be-retired, bottomless garbage cans.
I'm surprised at anyone adding meat to a compost mix. All the compost recipes say meat and fat are big no-no's and i can't imagine it wouldn't stink like road kill on hot pavement. <shudder>
The only thing i seem to get in limitless quantity in here in Big Cow Country is cow and horse manure, but i have to worry about Tordon, a broadleaf herbicide that's used to kill a really noxious import called "Russian knapweed" that is causing all sorts of agricultural havoc in these parts. That manure is fine for tilling in where i eventually want lawn, but i've messed up two veggie gardens now with manure that was tainted with Tordon so i won't chance that again.
Notchman was recently sharing with me his buddy's tremendous success with coffee grounds that he gets in quantity from some source...very high temps achieved in the pile. I'm going to check with a couple coffee kiosks in my near little town (pop. about 3500) to see if i can schedule to collect it all at once, since the village is so small and i'm six miles away from it to make it worth the trip.
I like the concrete block idea very much bec it would be a good heat sink, too, and i'm old enough i like things i can pick up one-at-a-time
And that would let you add your colorful touches. Blocks can be painted.
And yes, coffee grounds are good. Egg shells. Left over veggie remains, etc. Lots of stuff. Used to be a magazine called Organic Gardening that had articles on stuff like that.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
RE meat in compost:
These are very big, very hot piles! It's the newest thing in dead cow management since fears of Mad Cow Disease have made classic rendering outfits wary.
You bury your dead cow in a lot (several tons) of sawdust and manure, at precisely the right percentage of moisture, & go away for a while. The piles used for this at the big dairy and poultry operations are inside sheds, so carrion eaters are not a problem.
On a more modest scale, my friend who has the cheese dairy does this in her manure pile, & my other friends with the sheep & free-range poultry operation also do it, with excellent success. it takes about 6 weeks for a whole cow carcass to disintegrate, with no foul odors, flies, etc.
Liz, the cheesemaker, wants to be buried in her compost pile when she dies. I'd ask to join her, but I'm giving my body to Yale Medical School...always wanted to attend an Ivy League school!
Splintie - Thanks for this thread!
Edited 5/16/2008 11:39 am ET by kate
since fears of Mad Cow Disease have made classic rendering outfits wary
No, it's not smart to process an infected animal when the place can't be disinfected. Composting only moves the problem elsewhere, but it wouldn't have any effect on the prions themselves which are virtually indestructible. I can see bizarre circumstances in which vegetarian gardeners buying and using 'organic' compost made with 'all-natural' ingredients become infected with BSE. OTOH, the suspect parts that are being removed from slaughter cattle now - brains and spinal columns - are being used in pet food instead.
The farm-raised elk herds here in MT that had to be destroyed for contracting CWD were incinerated and buried 15' down, IIRC. Kinda like nuclear waste....out of sight, out of mind...
Otherwise, this seems a smart idea and not much different than ol' Squanto teaching the Pilgrims to slap a dead fish under a squash - or was it corn? - plant. I'll have to put it in my forthcoming book, 101 Uses for a Dead Boyfriend. <G>
The animals my friends are dealing with are not infected with anything other that normal farm problems - no BSE in sight. As I recall, BSE issues involved feeding BSE-contaminated feed back to ruminants - although I'mm pretty fuzzy on the details after all this time. Must be those little spongy bits in my brain...
I love the colors, fringe, etc. - that's a hoophouse with STYLE! You go, girl!
Are you planning to sell your produce, or is this for home consumption? That house looks like a lot of veg, even for a vegetarian!
Are you planning to sell your produce
I mostly plan to eat it fresh, preserve it for winter, and give away what i can't process in a timely manner. I'm growing lots of squashes and cabbage bec i use a lot of those in the dogs' food, who are also mainly vegetarians.
I'm clearing out the freezer just in time...and i found a tub of strawberries from last year behind a layer of frost....mmmm......
I went way overboard with the seedlings so i have a whole lot of starts left over. I was thinking of getting a table at the little farmers' market to sell off the excess, but that probably would just pay the gas to get there and back, LOL. I think i'll just give them away this year and maybe sell next year.
When I started the farming thread, I had absolutely no idea how popular it would be. But there seem to be a lot of people who enjoy it a great deal. You know, Andy Engel once tried to get me to write an article about trusses for FHB. I told him I didn't know what I could write about. He said that I probably didn't realize how much I knew about trusses, since I dealt with it every day. I suspect the same is true about you. Since you know quite a bit about gardening, it just seems natural to you. You don't realize how much you know relative to us mere mortals. So would you give it a try? If you don't get a lot of responses you can always quit. .As for the chemicals vs. organic gardening - My opinion is that it's the EFFORT that's important - Not perfection. In other words - The fact that you're trying to be organic is more important than doing it utterly perfectly.So get some chemicals and nuke the danged grasshoppers.(-:
A miser is hard to live with, but makes a fine ancestor.
Well, thanks awfully for the encouragement! I just thought it'd make a nice thread for low-budget gardeners, but the time-lapse thing over the summer might be fun as well. Notchman is also making a hoophouse and he's a hardcore organic man, so i'm looking forward to his adding to this and filling in my considerable knowledge gaps about the field.
Frankly, i was a little worried someone would tell me to take it to Over the Fence or comment that it has no place in the Fine HOMEbuilding forum. Whew...feeling relieved today...
I mostly built the hoophouse as a response to this devastation that happened last year to everyone, a sort of grasshopper plague we had in these parts. (Those beds are old window and door frames i took out of the house. Waste not...)
Aside from the chemicals aspect, i'm also morally committed to doing the least damage necessary to in order to survive. Last year, the insects won so i toughened up my stance some. I'm hoping to fence the suckers out, but if it comes down to me or them...
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Edited 5/15/2008 2:05 pm by splintergroupie
Being as you're up to 32+ posts in roughly 14 hours, I'd say the interest is there. As for if it belongs here - My farm thread doesn't technically belong here. But since enough people liked it, they moved it from the tavern to the photo gallery. My guess is that your thread will stick here too.Notchman, of you're reading this I hope you'll either post in this thread or start your own.
Does a clean house indicate there's a broken computer in it?
I'm going to join in, but I'm waiting for a tutorial from Splinty. :-)I'm glad this is going well....one never knows what will light a fire on this forum.
"one never knows what will light a fire on this forum."
That's worthy of the quote thread, and is very true.
I thought IMERC was nuts when he asked me to take the farm thread to 500 posts. But it's more than 3 times that now.
A penny saved is a Congressional oversight.
Well, I got my instructions from Splinty (about how to imbed photos with text) but I'm going to have to proceed with that tonight when I have a bit more time.But as an introduction to my role in all this, my purpose in building a hoop house is to extend my growing season on each end and then proceed into winter gardening.With fuel prices affecting farming and transportation and refrigeration and many other cost components of the food chain, the benefit of growing your own produce can be a pocketbook issue, not to mention that home grown varieties generally taste a lot better than varieties that are propagated for longer shelf-life and durability for shipping and handling.How and when one gardens and what one grows in the garden is determined to some degree by the local environment; Elevation, local micro-climate, soil type, etc.I live in a very mild maritime climate, meaning that it rarely drops below 25 degrees f. in the winter and the occasional freezes are rarely long or deep. In my county, which ranges from the Pacific beach to about 2k' elevation in the Coastal range, little micro-climates abound. I live about 8 miles inland from the coast and my climate is more like that of the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Consequently, In the little valley I live in, I get less rain than in town just 6 miles away, very little fog and not much wind.A closely held secret here is that we get very little rain, generally from June to November and I get a lot of sun.Because of the winter rain, the soil is fairly acid and has to be limed to balance the ph for most vegetables although some plants, like blueberries and many fruit trees do just fine in an acid soil.I'll get in a few photos next.
I have 60 acres, mostly timberland but with about 8 acres of bottomland/pasture. In that area, I have a 50' X 100' garden plot which has to be fenced to keep the Elk and deer out.Unlike Splinty, my hoophouse is just 12' X 12' and not nearly the FineHoopbuilding structure she has erected.
Being a contract builder, I accumulate a lot of leftovers so my only cost in my hoophouse is less than $50 for elect 1" PVC and some conduit clamps.My objective this summer is to give my long season tomatoes a headstart and to try to get some kick-a## bell peppers. While I'll plant a lot of stuff in the open, the night-time heat retention of the soil in the hoophouse should be a real benefit.My main crop each year that I've done forever is Blue Lake pole beans, cucumbers, tomatoes and both summer and winter squash....I do other things but those are the priority.The dogs keep the rabbits away.The fence keeps the elk out.
Edited 5/15/2008 3:44 pm by Notchman
Attached is the hoophouse along with my home grown way of hacking it together.I had some 1X3 cedar batts which I used for some lite framing and to hold the visqueen to the conduit via the conduit clamps.To hold the plastic in place while installing it, I split some 1 1/4" poly pipe to slip over plastic and conduit. I also used some plastic cap nails to secure the platic to the base and some of the framing.I drove some odds and ens of #5 rebar in the ground bent tthem inward about 20 degrees and slipped the conduit over them and then clamped it to the 1" X 10" sides.Later in this thread I'll post some pics of a small greenhouse a friend just built using double-walled greenhouse polycarbinate (lexan) for the glass.
One thing kind of cool this year is that a Vietnamese family that I've long been friends with (Escaped from Saigon on a C-130 without a cent and have become really productive citizens) are going to be sharing the work with me.I'm letting them use an area about 30' X 50' and we'll all share the produce of the total plot.Alongside the garden is a small creek which is teeming with watercress right now.They've been harvesting it....and using it in stir fry.
Hey Man!
Back in WI there were a lot of natural springs withthe best water imaginable--including a flowing artesian well (whoa there it is on the internet...world is getting smaller! this is about 4mi from my folks old house see pic) hand dug back in the day and still flowing...
ANyway, we'd hike around and pick watercress, head back to the house and make BWT's
Bacon, Watercress and Tomato sandwiches... They're quite incredible! Don't forget the mayo.
This very evening, I'm going to do the stir fry: Fresh shrimp, beef strips (sorry Splinty! :-), zuccini, peppers, olive oil and garlic AND watercress.I'll post my review of the results!Pat; make sure we get together the 28th! I've read your dirtbag countertop thread and I'm inspired....
For sure--I'll seek you out on the 28th.
Today or tomorrow the crushed glass counter installment and integrating the sink with the countertop.
You realize, I hope, that Taunton owes you! Honestly, your thread is as good as any I've seen on BT and much better than most of the magazine articles!
Bah!
Just a dirtbag playin' with mud!
No giardia in your creek? We stopped eating watercress due to it.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Looks like an old troy bilt out there. We still use dad's 1976 (or so) era Troy Bilt. jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
My Troybilt is about a 1987 vintage....good machine....Kohler engine, before they were spiraling into bankruptcy and switched to Briggs/Stratton.POW camp! LOL! That's to keep the bad guys OUT!I think you were the one that brought up compost; I'll get into that tonight.One of my favorite topics.
Was noodleing around the web looking for an online calculator for rafters and happened to stumble on this http://www.klickitatcounty.org/SolidWaste/fileshtml/organics/compostCalc.htm It came from this site which looks like a gold mine of information. http://www.martindalecenter.com/Calculators1A_5_Co_AE.html 4 section to the online calculator. this is the first one, others are shown on the first page.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That's pretty handy; I bookmarked it....I'll play with it tonight.
My Troybilt is about a 1987 vintage....good machine....Kohler engine, before they were spiraling into bankruptcy and switched to Briggs/Stratton.
Dad's Troybilt saw massive use. And he wasn't very good about putting it back in the garage when he was done (more than a few times, Mom was the one wrestling it back into the garage after it had been sitting out for who knows how long).
But anyway, it has had the engine and tines replaced. IIRC, the current engine is a Tecumseh. Still starts up like a champ. Still tills like a champ.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Against my better judgment, I loaned mine to a friend about three years ago who left it outside all winter.Despite all my efforts, I couldn't restore the carburetor and had to replace it.It runs like a champ now. (And I no longer loan power tools to ANYBODY!)I do wish the tine speed was a little faster....I nearly bought a BCS for that reason, but ultimately didn't because of the direct drive. When I tilled up an ancient .22 rifle a few years ago, I was grateful for the belt drive. :-)
The BCS is awesome. Especially now that they've replaced those finicky Italian engines with Hondas! No problem with the direct drive - ya hit something solid it just jumps up & over it; kinda fun! I did add the wheel weights to mine, that really helped. I also had a lot of space to mow, the sickle bar mower was amazing. Didn't even pause when mowing through 1" dia black locust.
They are a nice machine...and, as I said, I like the higher tine speed....there's actually two speeds IIRC.I grew up spending many hours behind the handlebars of one of those Monkey-Wards front-tine things...it damned near beat me to death at times. We had a lot of rocky and clay soil where I grew up and, though we raised some really great gardens there, it took a long time and a lot of work to get the soil in shape.It was a special day when I was able to get a good rear-tine machine.And the soil where I am now is terrific.
"And the soil where I am now is terrific."
That is a real gift. We started out with worn out red clay - the life sucked out of it by decades of tobacco farming. Took about 3 years of green manuring and working in deep mulch as it composted, but in the end it was terific as well. Couldn't have done that to a 1/4 acre without a great tiller. In the burbs on a hillside now so I sold it quite a while ago. Still miss it!
I've been working on the irrigation part of this plan the last couple days. I made up a manifold to feed drip lines in each of the three beds. I wanted to use drip lines because some plant pathogens are fostered by wet foliage and wet spots on leaves can act like magnifying glasses, making burned spots.
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And i included a spigot for washing hands, getting a drink, and filling a watering can. The part exiting the hoophouse goes to the strawberry beds now flanking either side of the 'front' door.
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Edited 5/17/2008 1:19 am by splintergroupie
I'm trying a variety of drip lines, including hard poly, soft poly, and some 1/4" tubing with integral drippers. Here is some hard poly with drips on 3' centers for squash and tomatoes in this bed.
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I thought at first i might get away with just drilling small holes at each plant location. The site has a slope, however. If i had placed the manifold at the upper end, perhaps the drilled holes would have worked, but the way i had it set up pushing water up the rows, there wasn't enough pressure at the top end. So drippers it is:
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I ended the poly pipe in a loop that i slipped over a nail. I found that the pipe grows in length a LOT in the heat, so i'll be staking it in place to guide it back to position as the cold water re-shrinks it. For the soft poly, i shoved a length of hard poly inside it before bending it over.
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Ending the in-line drip tubing:
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Edited 5/17/2008 1:25 am by splintergroupie
Here are pictures of the two poly pipe styles, hard and soft. If i were doing it again, i'd use all soft poly. I found i could use a hatpin to pierce it when it was pressurized and get a wonderfully soft, dispersed spray out of it with a whole lot less hassle and expense than drilling and inserting button drippers in hard poly. The soft, thin-walled poly was given to me a couple years ago so i don't know if it's available any longer; i haven't seen it at any of the hardware or gardening centers i visit, anyway.
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The kind of drip/spray the two hoses emit:
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Edited 5/17/2008 1:45 am by splintergroupie
Here's an inclusive shot of my firing up all the hoses at once to see if there was enough pressure to feed all the openings. Turned out the system worked very well and was balanced between all the types of lines.
Today was the first really hot day we've had and i discovered that the purlins of 1/2" PVC conduit aren't up to the task and they deformed as you can see in the pic. I'll remedy that with metal conduit.
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The predatory insects i ordered arrived today in a box labeled "Jellies and toys". I dunno, but it looks like it should scare aphids and grasshoppers.
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Edited 5/17/2008 1:55 am by splintergroupie
>>it looks like it should scare aphids and grasshoppers
Scared me, for sure. :-)
The hoophouse is looking great, can't wait to see plants in there.
There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.
I was able to get the 40' of trellis up yesterday in the middle bed for pole beans and cukes and get two of the three beds planted, but it was too dark for photos by the time i called it a night. The last bed is left for direct-seeded stuff like carrots, beets, bush beans, etc. More to come this evening...
In the meantime, i received some shots from Notchman of a lean-to type of greenhouse of smaller quantity but outstanding quality that he helped a friend of his build of redwood they salvaged on the beach and cut up on Notchman's mill. The glazing is polycaronate panels, an insulated Lexan sandwich built kind of like corrugated cardboard. They offer much better insulative value than single glazing, although they are rather costly. (Notchman isn't able to embed photos for whatever reason, so i offered my services.)
Just look at this woodwork! Those are some high-class 'maters in there!
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That white gizmo on the roof is a temperature-activated vent that uses a gel inside a cylinder to open the vent when the inside reaches a high enough temperature. There are various types of these vents, some using a bimetallic spring like a household thermostat, for instance.
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And a picture of why Notchman's hoophouse went up in a day and mine took a whole month: he's had a partner helping him move faster. <G>
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Edited 5/17/2008 1:57 pm by splintergroupie
That redwood greenhouse is really sharp!
You're making me nostalgic for the greenhouse I had for a while, it was a 4 seasons premanufactured affair, about 10' x 20' that came with a house I bought. I really enjoyed that greenhouse, my main problem was keeping it cool enough in the summer in NM.
About that bear paw pic, I see the bear is smart enough to use a retractable razor knife.
There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.
I hear that. I had to set the alarm to get up at the crack of 9 a.m. to go open the hoophouse this morning and i'm still recovering.
I'll change out the glass in the doors for the screens today. I expect i'll be changing out those doors themselves for the self-storing kind to more conveniently regulate the temp than by changing out a whole panel. I get a pretty good draft of wind through there with both doors open, though - hopefully the screens will still allow that current to flow through the tunnel. Closed up, it goes to 120 degrees+ in no time.
My insects still aren't here. They were sent 2nd-day air three days ago...not looking good for the predator v. prey equation here... <drumming fingers>
That redwood greenhouse is giving me ideas! It's great. If one added that to a cedar sided house like mine, would there be moisture/mildew problems?
<<If one added that to a cedar sided house like mine, would there be moisture/mildew problems?>>My guess is it would do more to *protect* the siding compared to being exposed to the elements. With the higher temps inside, the Relative Humidity would actually be lower, yes?Isn't that redwood gorgeous? Notchman said it came from a 14' diameter log that washed up on the beach. He and the friend recovered parts of it as the sea raised it up higher and higher out of the sand. The project is worthy of the story and the effort it took.
<"With the higher temps inside, the Relative Humidity would actually be lower, yes?">
I thought warmer air could hold more moisture (?).
My greenhouse drips from the ceiling, and I hear it rains in the Growing Spaces dome greenhouses.
Nothing like knowing where your materials come from.....a treasure from the sea, that he probably feels has alot more personality than bought lumber.
Yes, the warmer air DOES hold more moisture, but all other things being equal, an increase in temperature lowers the RELATIVE humidity. It's only when it contacts the cold plastic/glass/film that it condenses into droplets, i.e. reaches the dew point. If this greenhouse were attached off an opening in your house, for instance, the moisture in wintertime would be welcome to offset the dry, cold air that holds little moisture getting pulled into your house, heated even further, then causing dry skin and static charges.My dryer vent discharges into my house in order to give it enough humidity to be comfortable. I believe you can also get vents that open based on humidity, if that were actually a problem, but in this climate i seriously doubt you could have an issue with a lean-to greenhouse under normal conditions. The Growing Spaces domes have an integral water pond, don't they? I forget if that's optional or not, but that's a huge source of H20 you wouldn't have in a lean-to greenhouse.
I'd really like to see some studies done on plants growing behind doublepane glass v.s. twinwall polycarbonate. And if the glass were Low E, etc...? I've tried to find information about this before.
So I would just assume that all the moisture from watering the plants would condense on the glazing, leaving the wall of the house dry, since it's warmer? It seems the wood in my greenhouse gets pretty wet. But it still lasts a long time. Even the bottom 2x4 on the dirt from the first hoophouse was still solid when I took it up after 3 years. (well, it was ancient roughsawn heartwood fir)
I'm not clear if Growing Spaces dome greenhouses always have a pond inside. They have a huge underground water storage tank for passive solar heating.
From snow to HEAT......have you considered shadecloth yet?
I suppose you could rot just about anything if you put a mind to it, but i'd think a person would be more careful in a lean-to with water than in the garden. I manage to get everything watered in my solarium without anything rotting.... <G>
I lifted Doug fir heartwood stakes from the old beds as good as when i pounded them in the ground years ago. They were plywood peeler cores that we used to be able to get here for a buck each in 8' lengths; those were the days. Really amazing...not a sign of deterioration when lodgepole was falling to dust.
No shadecloth...i've never used it and even the cole crops grew just fine. And this HH has doors at each end ends, unlike the last one, so it shouldn't have a build-up at all once i have screens in both doors.
Night-night!
That dripping condensation from the ceiling of the greenhouse is not a good thing and some greenhouse cover material is designed specifically to ameliorate the problem.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Why is condensation not a good thing? How is it any different than watering the plants? Or rain?
Well, hmmm. Same reason that it's not good to spray a slight bit of water on the entire plant when it's in hot sun? Same reason it's better to have drip under the plant than spray on it? Because I read it on the 'net?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
When i was sorting out my irrigation system, i quite often thought that hanging a couple of impulse sprinklers off the purlins would fix the watering issue pronto! Since i'll be mulching with newspaper, though...
I've since heard i can get shredded paper for free from the banks, though i'd have to look into what inks, etc. are used.
I'm actually considering putting up another HH, so it would be interesting to try a different watering system on that and compare results. I have my old hoops plus some i got from the BT poster Jesse when i was picking up old carpet from his place in Missoula last month. This'll be the Pod Place...
I don't know the connection between method of watering and shredded newspaper for mulch. ?How do you determine if newspaper ink is safe or not? I thought newsprint was m.o.l. approved for garden use, but then I'm not really an organic gardener since I apply fertilizer in the spring.What have you been doing regarding the possibility of soil depletion/salt in your greenhouse beds?I've gardened on and off since I was a kid and now, after many successful gardens and some head-scratcher complete failures, I'm finding out that getting serious about it means I have a lot to learn.One thing we had success with that might work for you, too. We planted spinach late August or early September in our old hoophouse, it grew until late Oct and a little beyond, then we harvested it all winter.Had any luck with winter storage of potatoes and carrots? My butternut squash keeps well, but the root crops don't seem to last long with my current storage method.Picture attachment of the last hoophouse several years back (w/ DW and kids).
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Carrots keep really well covered in a bucket of slightly damp sand in a cool dark place, or, I suppose, any other container that will keep the roots covered and cool.New Mexico home organic gardenerAdopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience. Emerson
Thanks! I actually tried that, but I need a place that won't freeze. My garage, where I put them last fall, doesn't usually freeze, but it did last winter.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I got my buried fridge idea from the book Root Cellaring. It works great...I set it on rocks above the dirt, but am sure gophers have changed alot of my plans underneath. I use low tupperware totes to keep mice out.....fill tote with layers of dirt (not too wet, not bone dry), and layers of carrots, beets, whatever. Close the lid, and stack two, (can get 4 in the fridge section)..the other section (freezer) works well for cabbage heads, with some sawdust in the bottom. I had a problem with drainage at first......a friend suggested shooting holes in it.......so I had him do that part! Carrots keep til May, I harvest them in late Oct or early Nov. I did lose a couple totes to rot one year, when I used dirt that was wet after a rain. I tried packing in sawdust, but imagined it gave them a flavor. With the dirt, they think they are still growing, and that's what they start doing about April. They will overwinter in the ground here, but I'd have to screen against gophers eating them all. This year I made two beds with 1/2" hardware cloth screened bottoms, so I may let those overwinter......fresh carrots in Spring are really nice.
(oh, I put a layer of insulation on the top of the fridge, leave the door open about the width of a lath. Used to use bags of leaves, but switched to blueboard with a tarp on top to keep the whole thing from freezing solid....a sheet of metal works best. Most work is digging the snow off the top after it builds up, if you don't go for carrots every week.)
Potatoes like close to 32 degrees also, and moist, but I've not dared try them out there.....they go in the dirt cellar, which stays in the 40's.....they last til planting time...in fact, I should go see if they want to come outside now.
Root Cellaring tells all the temperatures and humidity levels different veggies need.
"...beds with 1/2" hardware cloth ..."
Let us know how that works out for you. I've found gophers inside beds lined with 1/2" chicken wire. Not sure if they came over the top or through the wire. Mice & rats can squeeze through that size and I figured with the family resemblence.. Anyway the next beds get 1/4" hardware cloth just to be sure.
Now I'll have to go out there and dig under my garlic beds that have been in use for years! I could swear it was 1/2". My first was a couple layers of a wider mesh, wired together to make the openings 1/2". I figure only a baby gopher has a head 1/2" diameter. The mature gophers have heads more like 1 - 1 1/2" diameter...these are the western pocket gopher. So far my beds have kept them out.
The gopher baskets I buy from Peaceful Valley are 1/2" chicken wire. I started out using 1/4" wire, forming my own baskets for trees, but then worried the tree roots would be held back too much, so ordered the gopher baskets, and redid those. Glad I did, had to dig up one of the 1/4" basketed baby trees this Spring, and the roots were kinda jammed up at the screen. Between gophers, deer, bears,......hard to just plant things!
yea, I've seen the 1/4" baskets cause problems with the roots - maybe the difference is square hardware cloth vs. hex chicken wire - can get through one but not the other - ya got me thinking...
The gopher baskets I got to protect fruit tree roots are 1/2" chickenwire type (hexagonal holes) They are larger than a 1/2" square......sure hope no young gophers get thru them! Some people just take lots of old chicken wire, use several layers, and put that around the roots, without actually making a basket that comes aboveground. I've had that work also....think alot of it is chance, and how hungry the winter is making them. I had a fairly large apple tree that a gopher got to.......must have chewed a major root, for the tree wobbled. It looked bad, for a couple years, and I had to stake it to support it, but it seems to have regained it's vigor again. Sometimes my cats would be catching 4 or 5 a day!
Edited 5/23/2008 3:03 am ET by intaglio
PS The gopher baskets have a green area to leave above ground, to keep them from coming in that way......it's about 4-6". But when weeds bend over the top, or snow, or their own tunnels build up.........seems one has to clean the edges each year. I planted comfrey around the trees, a Permaculture idea....which may be a disaster. The comfrey grows big, then big leaves die down, and will just form a bridge for them!
Astrid! This is all your fault!
You are the first person i ever read the term "hoophouse" from those many years ago, so i googled it to see some pictures and got going with experimenting.
I didn't know you were still around, but thank-you SO much! I'm very indebted to your sparking my curiosity so many years ago and i doubt i ever even mentioned it. If you have any pictures of your own place, i've thought many times i would love to see how you garden and the structures you've made.
Again, thanks deeply. <bow>
Nice picture...you guys like your spinach! From your pics and Intaglio's links about the Solar Pod experiments, i'll certainly try a late Summer/Fall sowing of greens. I had very little room for it last week when i got through putting the other seedlings out, plus it freezes so well.
connection between method of watering and shredded newspaper for mulch
Overhead watering would run off newspaper laid out flat. I used drippers partly bec of the newspaper i have available in quantity to me is in sheet form. Overhead water would filter into the shredded stuff, i'm guessing, though i haven't tried it. Chances are, it might mat down, too...one more experiment to run!
What have you been doing regarding the possibility of soil depletion/salt in your greenhouse beds?
I had access to large rotted grass piles from my neighbor (now gone) and their thatch this Spring. Sawdust comes from the woodshop. We put some manure on a few years ago, but won't do that again, so salt shouldn't be an issue except for the human #### i toss on the compost pile occasionally to boost it. The straw in the paths which decomposed got shoveled into the beds. The newspapers will get turned in each year. I'll rotate the plantings, maybe plant clover as a cover crop in the fall to chop in come Spring.
I have high hopes for the mushroom compost i just bought as an amendment, though it contains chicken poo as a raw ingredient - i don't know how salty that is but i would guess that the water used to grow the mushrooms must have leached some out. I'm going to ask the fellow i buy it from when i get the next load if he has access to any analyses of this stuff. I top-dressed the tops of the beds and forked it in the top few inches before planting. I decided to use it after seeing what a load of it did to a neighbor's patch of garden, so i'm not totally working in the dark here. His beans were the greenest, healthiest i've ever seen...right before the deer got 'em. <G>.
I've put some plants in pots with pure mushroom compost just to see what happens. The stuff is $37 for a load that fills my long-bed Toyota and the huge advantage is that it's heat-sterilized = no weed seeds to fight.
Like you, my gardening has been done on the trial-and-error method. With this expenditure of money and effort, i need to step up my game, too. Now where's that soil tester kit i bought...
Had any luck with winter storage of potatoes and carrots?
I've stored carrots in the fridge where they take up about half of it, but run out in February before hey even come close to going bad. I'm considering another fridge in the basement or an outdoor, buried freezer. (Intaglio? Want to expand on that practice?) I tried the leaving-them-in-the-ground method two years ago and ended up with mush. It's just too damn cold here to prevent in-ground freezing without heroics.
Potatoes are mostly dealt with en masse by boiling, mashing, freezing in 1 qt. freezer bags in flat 'bricks' one evening a year, lol. Squash the same: bake en masse, scoop, freeze, except for the ones i leave whole and cube, rind and all, to put in the dogs' slow-cooker food; i just used the last one. Buttercups are the best keepers, IME, and second-favorite to acorns for the dogs. Acorn squash don't keep as long, though, so i grow more buttercups. I just pile them wherever i can find space.
Intaglio gave me a tip about eating acorns: try them when they are in the light-green, immature stage. It's the most glorious 'summer' squash you'll ever eat!
I sometimes have planted spinach right into the tomatoes and peppers and let them grow like little weeds while I was still harvesting the earlier crop.I shred my newspapers in an office type paper shredder. I use it for worm bedding and dump the excess into various long-term-no-tending compost heaps. The strips I get are only about 1/4" wide and they do get matted together when they are wet. Doesn't seem to bother the worms, though. They crawl right through.I'm interested to hear your experiences with the mushroom compost. There is a "mushroom factory" ( uhg ) about 75 miles away and I could haul about 3 tons in one trip. The boiled mashed frozen potato bricks. How do you use them? Lots and lots of potato soup and mashed potatoes?I canned a bunch of pumpkin last year for dog food. They love it.I may need more freezer space unless I really get busy canning this year. I waste lots of my freezer space on game meat and ice cream.
< G >
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Yeah....those mushroom factories are pungent, eh?!?!? LOL...i visited friends over a mile away from this one when it was operational and you could still smell it. Early in its short career (they expanded faster than they had capital and the place collapsed when the utility cut them off, is what i heard) i got a dump truck load of not-very-composted remains and it grew bushels of mushrooms! I guess they put a stop to THAT practice!
I use the potatoes in soups, potato pancakes, or heated and fluffed with butter and milk (vegan for me) as regular mashed potatoes. You can make bread with it. Ian used to put them on top of shepherd's pies he made of beans and veggies. I've kept them two years in the freezer without degradation. I just did a google..lots more to do with it than i even knew: http://bigspud.com/pmash2.txt
I've been toiling away at removing grass around my trees, putting down a couple inches of compost, then a mulch mat (carpet, in actuality). I'm now thinking of planting a squash at each tree and winding it up the tree. I have some planted in the HH to grow up the ribs, but i want moooorrrreee since i use a half in each pot of dog food.
I found an easy-peasy way to cook all those squash, too. I put a piece of alum foil on each oven rack. (Maybe they make pans/sheets that large...i dunno.) I split the squashes in half, scoop out seeds. Place face down on the alum foil. You can get six squash halves on each rack. Bake until done, then pull them out. Cup your palms around the skin and lift it right off the meat, then cup your hands around the meat (rubber gloves help) and plop it in a container or a zip-loc. Cool, flatten, freeze. Throw some more squash halves on the alum foil and repeat. It's economical on the electric bill and gets it all done in short order. My spaniel would slobber all over himself while waiting for the rinds.
I've been having a moral dilemma about buying cat food. I may have to look into getting wild meat, too. No ethically good answer there.
That's kinda my approach, too. I just look for a possibility and plant some stuff. I read a book years ago about a Japanese guy, wish I could remember his name, who used the "kick a hole it some dirt and throw in some seeds" way of taming an unruly property.I bought a canner last year and find it pretty easy to can various things. We really use up the pasta sauce I can. I'm shooting for canning at least 80 quarts this year (we give it away to sons, friends, and family). I can lots of salsa, too, but it doesn't go as fast. I'm working my on recipe until it drops 'em dead with desire for another chip.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
It sounds like you have a waterbath canner with all that high-acid stuff. If you find the defintive salsa recipe, please let me know. I've developed quite a lust for it the past year and intend to make jars and jars if i can get it right. I'm also growing tomatillos for variety. Here's a site i found while noodling around a few nights ago, might offer some ideas: http://www.pepperfool.com/recipes/salsa_idx.htmlDilly beans are water-bathable, along with pickled beets. I put ginger in pickled beets and the flavor just pops. They will even keep for months in the fridge without canning. You can even pickle and freeze cabbage/cole slaw.The pictures you attached are puzzling. I'd never see pea flowers at the same time the corn was that high. The snow fence looks like a major production! I kinda like the pattern it makes. We get some car-denting hail here, too, but i guess not as bad as yours. I haven't had the plastic shred before, knock on wood.Well, i broke two shovel handles today digging sod from around the trees, so i know what i'll be doing in the morning.
Edited 5/22/2008 12:57 am by splintergroupie
I use a pressure canner at low pressure, even on the high acid stuff. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say I use the pressure canner as a hot bath. At 6,200 feet it's easier and faster to use pressure and it saves some utilities, too, over my old enamel hot bath canner.What's a dilly bean?The pic of corn and pea flowers would have been mid-June. Those peas were under a tree and shaded from about noon on.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
"Dilly beans" are just pickled beans in a variety of nuances, like regular pickles, but dill and beans go so well together. I like to put a hot pepper ring or twa in mine, too, sometimes garlic or little onions. They remain crunchy and can be water-bathed like any pickle.
Here's one recipe and there are many more on the Net:
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Shots of parts of my gardens today.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
So you just tie your tomatoes to a single stake? No cages? I was going to get busy tomorrow making cages out of a bunch of lath i took off a porch last year. I guess with the cover on i really can't smack a stake in anyway. Hmmm....learning some limitations of my method...
Commercially grown tomatoes are usually tied to a single stake...I use baling twine, but panty hose also works well.And tomatoes benefit by some occasional pruning....if you haven't done that before, I'll take some pics when I do mine (and it generates compost material). :-)
I read that only the indeterminate ones should be pruned...?
I have a few miles of oxygen tubing left from Ian's illness. The guy who serviced the oxygen concentrator told me to keep it for trussing up tomatoes. The Old Man would like that. <smile>
I went to the little library in my town today and raided the shelves of gardening books, greenhouse books, landscape books. Rainy days....books....it's a Good Thing.
The staking system that I use in our trial program here is called "florida weave". It involves putting a stake in every 3rd or 4th plant and then running string along each side. For a better description checkl http://www.foogod.com/~torquill/barefoot/weave.html )
It is fast, way more effective than cages and easier to look after than staking individual plants. We started using this three years ago and are very pleased with the results.
Except for the most compact of determinate tomatoes, most benefit from some pruning. Removing the suckers from the bottom up to the one below the first blossom cluster is what I reccomend.
These lower suckers tend to be a burden on the plant and are the ones that make them bushy and hard to keep contained. By removing them the plant will put more energy into fruit production, and will mature earlier.
For really large agressive indeterminates you can continue to sucker father up the plant to keep them under control.
A.
I like that method and I think I'll do that this year....I've got a whole stack of T-posts.And when the locals ask me about it, and they will, I'll tell them it's called the "Oregon Weave." :-)Thanks!
A couple more thoughts about compost:As far as material for compost, I neglected to mention newspaper, cardboard and computer paper; most newsprint these days is soy-based and safe as far as I know. Avoid the slick inserts with a lot of color printing.If you live in a climate with heavy winter rains like the PNW, most vegetables and many ornamentals do best with a just-less-than-neutral soil. While various ag limes are relatively inexpensive, a good free source of neutralizer is drywall scraps. A lot of small builders are happy to give it away rather than pay landfill fees.Locally, some of the landscapers who do their own composting grind it up and stir it right in with the mix. I laid a bunch of it out over my garden area like a mulch one Fall and, while it wasn't pretty to look at, by Spring it was all soft and crumbly and tilled right in. Just avoid drywall from remodels that has who-knows-what-kind-of-paint on it.On another note, I was perusing a really good book I've had for years on Propagation (I do a few root-cuttings, grafting and some bulb work occasionally). The Book is entitled "Plant Propagation" by Philip McMillan Browse, ISBN 0-671-65840-9Hopefully it's still in print...it's a good one. In the book, it discusses specific compost formulas for propagation which are different and much simpler than general garden compost. And there are different recipes for root cuttings, seed germination and potting composts.Propagation is a plant development activity I have only limited experience with, but it's absolutely amazing the various methods of "creating" new plants without the use of seeds or straight bulb plantings.The book also goes into some detail about harvesting seeds and bulbs and storing them, which, over time, can really start bringing down the cost of maintaining a garden and enables you to perpetuate those plants that you've had success with. A lot of propagation can be done in the winter time when our green thumbs are itching, but the snow/rain/ice, etc., prevents most gardening activity. And a lot of it can be done in the house (although a greenhouse is an asset) with growlights, a South-facing window or one of those window boxes.
I was wondering about your warning on the advertising inserts, so i called the local newspaper who told me the inks are all soy based. I did some more googling and found this article about the colored ink and the slick coatings on some inserts. It sounds like the got the heavy metals out of the inks. I called the local paper anyway and i'm awaiting the definitive call back on what kind of ink the Missoulian uses.
I put drywall scraps in the compost several years ago, tilled it into the new garden, and there are still intact pieces in the dirt, hard as rocks. Even the kid i had working for me commented on it when he was shoveling for me. Strangest darn thing because you know they'd turn to mush under the bathroom sink!
I bought about 50 amaryllis bulbs for a penny each after the Christmas season at HD a few years ago. I've kept them going by putting them in the greenhouse in summer, then letting them dry out in October, pulling and repotting in fresh soil in November for winter blooms. (I have a straggler blooming even now.)
I let the flowers produce seeds - they self-pollinate easily - and tried planting them. I now have a gadzillion little bulblets. It takes akes about four years for a flower-producing bulb to form.
Splints,
Haven't had a chance to read thru this fine thread yet -- just got back from Vinalhaven. Thought you might enjoy these.
Walter more later
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Oh, Walter...you just had to post that... <G>
That gal has a stove and everything in there. I love the painted-green, woven-splint chair - quintessential Maine, that.
I was at the library yesterday and saw the sign up on the bulletin board for the Stevensville Farmers Market; they started May 3. It started me thinking of the excess starts i'm giving away to neighbors this year, that i just grew in my window shelving.
What is not available to gardners here is any source of unusual strains of plants. It's all Early Girls, Better Boys...i've had trouble finding Romas even. All the outlets carry all the same seeds, too, aiming for the general market, of course. The only greenhouse that even tries for more than three kinds of peppers is in Missoula is quite large, doesn't advertise, and always sells out.
If i bypassed the mass gardenes market and offered heirloom varieties, raspberry canes, amaryllis bulbs...could be a niche market in which i could recoup my investment in in a few weekends. I already have the EZ-Up canopies to do craft shows and the great advantage to selling plants in the rain instead of woodwork is that i wouldn't have anything to refinish when i got home! I'm liking it....
Thanks for the reply. this gal has a 21 year old apprentice to help her on the Island.
Check out the bench in the Library thread - I think you'll like it.
Best ,,, Walter
If I can find it, Scott sent me a link to a seed/plant source that specializes in heirloom and exotic stuff. It's probably too late for this year, though. Very reasonable, too.
I am neither a chemist nor an organic gardener, but years ago hung out with some who were. I suggested using drywall scraps for a lime substitute and got told it is Gypsum, not Lime and therefore won't have the same effect. Don't know the truth of that info but though I would toss it out there. http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/gypsum/gypsum.htm
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I've been googling SR recycling for a half-hour now. I thought abortion brought out the loonies...some folks are incensed at the idea of fiberglass, of all things, in SR!! Yep, we really should not have any of that nasty silica in our gardens....
Here's a link with more links. I'll let folks sift (heh heh) through it themselves.
http://www.gypsumrecycling.com/
I haven't read the link yet, but I wanted to try to get the 400th post!Actually gypsum has been used as a soil and water amendment for centuries, as I understand it.Whatever binders might be present in drywall and the paper I can't speak to, but I don't find it worrysome....yet.Damnation! Well, I guess you deserve the landmark post!
Edited 5/23/2008 8:05 pm by Notchman
Yes, that link shows a peanut field conditioned with it. I was reading some more on soils last night. It said the dry parts of the west have naturally alkaline soils. Add to that that my well water is pretty hard - it clogs the 'leaky' pipe in no time - and amending my dirt in that direction is probably the wrong way to go. I gathered from the reading that the gypsum did't actually raise the ph like lime would, however. It seems like the topic is fraught with a lot of misinformation and emotion, though, so i'd have to dig (i can't help myself!) a lot harder to find out the straight poop. (I'll leave now...)You can shoot for the 500th post. <G>
I'm too soon for 500 but here's a link to the pictures of this ladies hoophouse/greenhouse out on Vinalhaven
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq1Mo¬ag=1
I noticed the chimney!
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Thanks for the slideshow!
I went into town today to get my metal purlins to sturdy up the hoophouse and did some bartering with a gardening friend: heirloom tomatoes and perennials for her blackberry and black raspberry canes. I have two birthday parties to go to tomorrow and i'm taking my starts with me, see if i can get rid of the excess. If i could grow that much in my windows, i'd be as dangerous as those women with a hoophouse, let alone a heated one. I was brainstorming with a builder friend today about solar panels and running the loops through the beds...i haven't heard of anyone doing that and a quick google didn't turn up anything but electric heating of the beds. <wheels turning>
This was my solution to the wind and not enough time to make proper ends. Somehow I like the look.....tho surely not as pretty as real bell cloches!
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Set out a few eggplants in the greenhouse today, hoping it's going to be warm enough to keep them happy.
Growing Spaces dome greenhouses use solar panels to heat the water in the huge underground storage tank. They have pipes that run thru the beds, to raise the soil temperature, but I believe those pipes carry hot air from the inside of the greenhouse, via a solar fan.
Edited 5/25/2008 1:25 am ET by intaglio
Your picture gives me an idea now: if you used some 5-gal buckets full of water to anchor the ribs, you'd have heat storage plus ballast for the wind. Just an idea....and you can get buckets for free from bakeries who usually just toss them...at least they do here. You could use a whip stitch to run a rop around the purlin in one bay to the bucket, to the next bay's purlin to the next bucket...be fast and easy to assemble in the Spring, and to stack and store in the Fall.
Does my picture look like jugs full of water? Actually they are jugs with the bottoms cut out, over tomato plants. Mini cloches. But the idea of 5 gallon buckets is still good.
I need to read about PAHS and AGS....maybe a good book?
Your picture look like jugs...which are heavy...which prompted me to think of the 5-gal buckets i used to take to shows and fill with water where i couldn't stake down into the pavement....and the buckets provided welcome water to passing dogs. <G>
Joe....i'm just a little concerned about how things are with you since those winds hit CO. I know you're in a different part of the state, but ... just checking.
Our son got married this weekend. Hit us much harder than the wind!
< G >I stopped this morning to check on the bulk of my tomatoes at our old house and everything looks great. Every tomato plant looks good and the potatoes are bursting out.Plus, we don't actually get wind here, we have fresh air everyday, but we have some days with a lot more fresh air than others. (Windy means over 35mph, right?)
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
we don't actually get wind here, we have fresh air everyday
HA!
We've been having really moist, fresh air, in that case. If it weren't for the raised beds and the visqueen bumbershoot, my maters would have washed out to the Columbia by now or turned blue from holding their breath. They seem pretty darned happy and i'd better get cracking installing the metal conduit/purlin i bought yesterday to hold their heads up.
Happiness to the nuptial couple!
Question: My little book on pepper growing says to add magnesium from dolomite limestone. The last thing my soil needs is anything alkaline! Any ideas on how to add magnesium from a non-alkaline source?Plus: A very large WOO-HOO to you for starting such a great and prolific thread!I guess construction types are often fond of good food and lots of it!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
hasbeen,Use Epsom Salts to supply magnesium. Won't change ph at the rate of a tbs per plant.notchman,I use scrap sheetrock in the garden to lighten up my heavy clay and can see the difference. KK
I do have to say that the areas I threw sheetrock have a condition of "tilth" that I find beneficial...though my soil is pretty loamy to begin with.Actually, most clay soils are pretty loaded with micro nutrients once they're broken up enough to be usable.
The one benefit of the gypsum in heavy clay soils is that it helps bind the smaller clay particles into larger "clumps" together is what I was told way back when. Sounds like this is what you are seeing, more friable soils.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thanks!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I'm glad you got an answer while i was busy trying to find out about Mg, bec i don't know myself. However, you spurred me to do my soils testing, which follows. Yeah, this thread's mining a deep vein of interest in creation, but that's to be expected from artist-builder types. And the thread drift also, from wheat to out-of-body experiences to epsom salts, is a lot like a compost pile spouting volunteers, or changing one's mind mid-build bec you've scored some building materials you weren't counting on.
Has...
I've read somewhere that you can add epsom salts to tomato plants. I'm going to try it.
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/fertilizeepsomsaltsDon't know where, don't know when. Just sticks in my head. So, looked it up. One article disputes the advantages, this one likes it.Pete
Edited 5/26/2008 10:28 pm ET by gotcha
The gal who owns this operation isn't internet connected out there -- although most folks are. I hoped she would chime in directly -- but isn't able.
Good luck with planning a low cost approach to heating the beds. Always fun to have a brain teaser to keep running in memmory !!
I continue to be amazed at how serendipity is working here.
I had decided not to replace the 1/2" purlins made of PVC pipe that got floppy in the high heat, but will leave them in place as trellis if ever needed. (Two grapes have been planted inside in the last few days.)
Instead, i reasoned metal conduit will augment those plastic purlins, with T's with more conduit to push off the beds. After the very hot days last week in the high 80's, i'm not at all confident right now that the ribs would bear the weight of the squash to be trained up each of them, not without more soid support.
I was a little put off my the idea of having a piece of permanently placed conduit every few feet in my viewshed down the tunnel - and how it would interfere with my wrassling cages around them - but now i can see how perfectly it would 'tie in' with the weaving idea. It's just too perfect...
Angus, i could just kiss you! I promise not to!
Thanks for the offer, but I'm sure my wife would object.
A.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm sure my wife would object.
I'm pretty harmless, Angus, just exuberant. Maybe i should plant one on DW, too, so she doesn't feel left out. ;^)
I bought the purlins and the uprights to better support the ribs/squash and to try out The Weave. I'll get to that later this week when i figure out the T connections as i learned that metal conduit doesn't use anything like that. I'm going to dry melting nylon T's into the conduit using my propane torch. Good thing it's still raining and i might not set anything on fire.
I'm debating on the cord. I wish the ranchers still used the old manila baling twine instead of this orange poly #### that doesn't decompose. I can get miles of the orange stuff for the picking-up, but i wouldn't be able to just toss the whole mess in the compost pile at the end. I also thought of leaving it up permanently, though, and cutting the old vines at the cord line at season's end to remove the stalks. The next year, i'd thread the stalks through the weave instead of doing the weave around the stalks...a vice versa look at the project.
I set out SO many tomatoes, I wondered about just letting them sprawl. Anyone tried that? Or should I do the WA Weave?
Neighbor told me to use hemp twine, then it would compost. Usuallly help the peas with that orange, or yellow, baling twine....but dislike the bits of plastic that end up shredding into the soil.
Potatoes......just read they want silica.....as in sand, or DE (diatomecous earth).
When i tried letting tomatoes sprawl, any that touched the ground got eaten or rotted where they contacted and the stems split off as the fruits became larger. The chart inside my soil testing kit says potatoes like a pH range from 4.5-6...and my dirt is an 8. Well...that helps tell me why the potatoes i've done at my place didn't do diddly while the potatoes we planted at the neighbors the year we 'share-cropped' did marvelously. Discouraging to have those soil test results after all the stuff i've hauled in here.I have to read up on how to acidify my soils. I'm also getting another load of compost tomorrow. There were three deer walking through the unfenced part of the property tonight at dusk, playing tag with the fluffy white cat. They'd follow the cat for a while, then the cat would double back around them. I watched for about 20 mnutes, but they got too close to the lane so i called the cat. He came running back, but the deer were spooked. How interesting to see those animals, so very different, respond to each other.
How interesting, on potatoes.....now I'm curious what my soil tests at, since I thought it was fairly alkaline, yet potatoes do great. I believe wood ashes cause scab on potatoes, another alkaline thing.
Question for all here: is there any research indicating that UV stabilized plastics block part of the UV spectrum???
How about using compost heaps inside the hothouse, to warm it, and also make it hotter for the compost to break down?
Deer and cats.......I kinda worry about mine sometimes....once a young deer was coming up to the deck steps, and Shasta (cat) was sorta stalking toward it....it stamped it's foot at her, and I thought how easily it could have struck her. Almost like the deer know they should worry about a feline, but this one is pretty little.....
I'll do the Washington Weave, then.....
I read that fresh manure, in the presence of alkaline soil, will cause scab...yet another reason to keep manure out of the dry, western garden, it would seem. I add my wood ashes to my soil, which is probably why the potash levels are higher, but they never get added directly, but pass through the compost bins and get all mixed into the other stuff.
Someone has room inside a greenhouse for a compost pile??!?!?! I suppose in one of those commercial ones it would make sense, but it's kind of hard to maneuver inside the hoophouse with long-handled tools. I guess you could do much the same by pulling a sheet of plastic over your compost bin, no?
Deer and cat: the cat seemed not worried about the deer in the least, made no attempt to evade. While i was a little worried at first, it became clear that the deer would graze, follow the cat, graze...no sense of urgency except when i'd make a sound - then their ears would swivel toward me.
Did you ever see this photo?
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or this one:
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Animals sometimes do a better job of getting along than humans...at least when they aren't eating each other.
If your bean seeds weren't viable for some reason, they could have rotted pretty fast. Another option is - you forgot to plant them! Kinda suspicious that not even one came up.
"someone has room inside a greenhouse for a compost pile?" That's what I said, thinking of my tiny little panel greenhouse. But, if we had a Growing Spaces dome....! Surely the heat inside would make the compost heat up like it was in the South.
Cute pics! The cat rubbing on the horse reminds me of what my cats do when I put them up on a horse's back.....they start rolling around, getting ecstatic as if they are in catnip....sometimes come close to falling off in their ecstasy. That young horse looks like he's really liking the cat.
The seeds were certainly planted, though i did find just one rotten one in a place a sprout should have been. All other spots...they were just gone. Several in a row would be missing, so i suspect a critter munching along.
I got some inoculant and dosed the replacement seeds before planting. It'll be interesting to see if i can tell the difference in the different seed treatments.
Horse dander as a cheap euphoric? I guess so...i just love burying my nose in a horses neck and inhaling. "Did you inhale?" "Why, of course, you idiot!!!" <G>
Scab on potatoes is caused by a soil bacteria. Dry soil at tuber formation, and high organic matter (which is where manure can come into play) will make scab worse. Low soil pH (less than 5.0) does supress scab. pH that low however also makes nutrients unavailable (especially phosphorus) to the plants so it is not a strategy I reccomend to home gardeners.
Best way to avoid scab it to keep soil wet during tuber initiation (around flowering time), and most importantly don't plant sets with scab on them.
Also remeber that scab, unless it is severe, is only cosmetic and does not affect yield or storage of the potatoes.
A.
I mistakenly thought scab presented a storage problem; good to know it's just cosmetic.
I read that too high a pH can also make nutrients unavailable as well, so i'm aiming just to make it more neutral from the 8+ i registered on my background dirt. I found so many estimates for adding sulfur to the soil in my situration (3# clear up to 17#), that i weighed out 8# of a 90% sulfur mix and tossed that in 300 s.f. of area i tilled up for spuds.
I also put in about a yard of the pH neutral and N-rich mushroom compost in it and tilled the whole business last night. I'll take new pH readings in a month, once the sulfur has had a chance to correct the high alkalinity. I now understand my little testing kit is not that precise, but it did point out some broad deficiencies i need to address.
Thanks for the tip on watering potatoes well at blossom-set. That's exactly the kind of real-world experience i hoped this thread would supply. Once i'm all set up and we've settled into The Dry Season, i'm putting all this stuff on timers in case i get busy and lose track of time/watering.
Here is a link to a table that shows the effect of pH on nutritent availability:
http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/pH.htm
As you can see the sweet spot is in the 6.5-7.5 range. Everything is available reasonably well and nothing is in the toxic range.
However you have to take into consideration your soil natural pH. Around here the soils are quite acidic, so we have to lime. I try and keep between 6.0 and 6.5. To get above that I would have to apply a lot of lime. I just make sure I have lots of phosphorus available and add oly to crops that need it.
In your case with an alkaline soil it may be difficult to push it right down to 7.0.
A.
Interesting graph on boron and phosphorous, how they have a 'waist'. My two blueberry bushes died while my five gooseberry ones lived, in the same soil and watered similarly. Strawbs were there, too. I just looked up a chart with the pH requirements of some fruits which showed that gooseberries and strawberries tolerate a much higher pH than the blueberries. I'm becoming more of a believer in soil testing, to say the least. The magnesium:calcium ratios in plant uptake are still a mystery to me, but it seemed it's generally not a problem if you can hit that sweet spot.
I finally caught up, carry on!
For a nice change, i'm doing something today i actually understand: fencing!
touché
(-:
Bikinis are like barbed wire fences - They protect the property, but don't obstruct the view. [My Uncle]
Touched...as in the haid? <G>
Verbal or with an Epe' (i')?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
Ipe if i had it...<G>I moved the fence line a few feet to the right of where it had been on the left with the raspberrries against it; i spent over an hour freeing the chainlink from their roots - it was a BAD idea to put the rasps there! I'm going to do Dovetail's thing with the removeable tubafors capturing the canes, plus plant some black raspberry and blackberry canes i traded for last weekend. The extension is going into taters, with morning glories and scarlet runner beans along the new fenceline. Sprinkling off and on, muggy and warm. eeeuuuwwww, feels like Kentucky...
I need to get a pic of our berrie patch, White Rasps, Black Rasps, Logan Berries, Red Rasps, and the ever present wild blacks.
Also have White Mulberry, and Red Mulberry. That branch that wiped out the car's back window on Mother's day, also flattened my only peach tree. Still have a nice Cherry there tho', the apples all got fireblight and are toasted.
I been pretty laid up for the last few days, did my back in..now I know how you felt. I removed a 20''x20''x20'' cube of marble from a porch column, solo..I shoulda known better..I did it, but I'm paying for it.
You got a white jump suit with a heart target? Parry and spar.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
Ouch on the back! My sessions with Mr. Post Hole Digger have left me a little stiff, too. I fell asleep watching the news with dinner just like an old fart. <blush>I'm planting the new patch now, but here's an in-progress shot i meant to attach to the last post.
Ohhhhh, I knew you were a rear tine gal..
Sorry, I took a few of them "payne, what pain" candies. In honor of Pete and Obama.
I quit tillin..really. Just a mantis doo hicky for small beds fluff up, the tiller and plowing and all that hat, just gave me more weeds ( GAWD I wish I had some weeds, right now)...I gits the black clothe and cover it up w/ mulch ( raw compost, like paper and cardboard slush)..works well.
Sphere~currently devising a lumbar disc out of abatronSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
It wasn't weedy - i'd had it covered since last year's debacle where the grasshoppers chewed every last thing to the ground - but i tilled it well to mix in the sulfur to acidify it and the mushroom compost to add Nitrogen. And there's just something so virginal and unspoiled about a freshly tilled bed before all the weeds sprout, LOL... I got the last side of fence in after the tilling. I didn't have 5' tall like the rest, but made do with a piece of 4' tall exactly the length i needed. The taters went in (red, white, and...yellow), then i disentangled about a mile and a half of morning glories sprouts to put along the long fence, and scarlet runner bean seeds along the short fence.I'm going to move the herbs to the back side of that plot and put the new berries in line where the other ones are. First up tomorrow, though, is to Tanglefoot the trees. Got started a month ago with the tree wrap, got side-tracked...howz zat happen. Mantis tiller, eh? My EH gave me the Ariens Rocket V when he got too busy to garden, offered his Mantis as well, but it looked so dinky. Any information to convince me i should hit him up for the baby brother, too? Happy pills...if it weren't for a blast of Ian's left-overs, i don't know if i'd have survived that first couple weeks. I've used up the Lortab now, on to the Oxycontin! I think i'll hold off on the 80 mg. morphine for a special occasion, though. Gads, what a pharmacy i have here....Wait'll Hardie starts making replacement spines...that's the ticket...and a 50-yr. warranty!
LOL, yer killin me.
The Mantis is way cool, like a coffee buster, no wait, like a router in dirt..wheeeee! Hang on.yeah..hang on.
see ya pissed of my wife again , being you..she says " no, no way, she can't be doing all that"
I relish in the giggledom, but damm..!!
Have you ever done a NYT crossword with 5 psychotee's and a lap top, under the influence of some kinda ( i forget) D-o-n-e.?
In INK?
Watching dogs, I invent ( Iknow there is a soduko or somefugginJapaneseywordforthat) chaos tonite.
The last words utterd by Sphere " Hey!!! NO!!"
What a pace to set, start there..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I can conjugate the German subjuctive, but it's a darn good thing my life doesn't depend on doing a x-word puzzle or juggling. Apparently you possess the missing part of my brain. Enjoy the meds. <G>
there's just something so virginal and unspoiled about a freshly tilled bed before all the weeds sprout, LOL...
When you work it until it is like black snow. Sink right in. And you're walking on the side of the tiller to keep from messing up the black snow.jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Hey -- I sure didn't know you could operate one of those tiller monster or I'da had you fix my garden!
<<I'da had you fix my garden!>>With that monster, i'd have ended up fixing your headlights, your screen door, your prize orchids and probably have to find a replacement cat for someone, too! Its turning radius is just under a quarter-mile.Truly, i've been over the yard several times with it, about an acre, tilling in amendments in the quixotic attempt to make the sand lawn-worthy. It sat for over two years without starting and all i needed was fresh gas and oil...mean machine. I have a pull-behind tiller i bought for the lawn tractor from a fellow who assured me it mounted on any Craftman tractor; it don't. I have to see if i can make some sort of transition plate to join the tractor to the larger tiller anyway, bec it sure would make whole-yard tilling a whole lot easier. Hanging on to that thing for eight hours, you feel beat to pieces...and i don't even have rocks to deal with.
They always tell you the rear-tine tillers are one-had marvels, but just wait until you're dancing along one-handed and hit a big root. That thang can take off like a dull blade hittin' a case-hardened nail. Still, it does beat a shovel . . .
If i'm doing a lot of tilling, i hang weights off the handlebars. Two tires is about right.... <g>
Yep. I bet that causes them flyin' sawsers.
Mine had a couple broken tines to fix. I'm debating if i want to hire it done or just buy a welder. Decisions, decisions...
Well, thanks to you and the reality of my little hoophouse, I've got beefsteak tomatoes setting on! About the size of grapes, but nonetheless.....That's pretty amazing for here, especially with the runs of chilly weather we've had.Last year, we had an unseasonaly warm and dry Spring and I had a ripe tomato on July 7 (IIRC it was an Early Girl; certainly not a Beefsteak!)....don't know if it'll happen this year, but it might.Just think, this thread is heading for 600 posts and we're just getting seeds and bedding plants in the ground!
My peppers are 5" tall in peat pots, soon as the nasty crud from the west passes by tomorrow, they be going in the ground.
'maters are 8-10 '' tall, ready too.
damm, i just started a sentance with an apostrophe, that musta broke a rule. I blame the pain meds.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I shoulda given you a nod for the peppers, too!I've got a couple that are about 10" and starting to get some buds and a few more that are about 5" that I bought last weekend at a plant sale.I'm just growing them in the hoophouse...they're looking really robust.BTW, I was thinking of you the other day; DW has been renting DVD's of TV series that we've never watched.So right now she's into about the 2nd season of "House." I've got a buddy out here; real bright guy with lots of service-related health issues...even looks like that House character...but you run a close second sometimes! No offense intended at all....the guy cracks me up!
I guess thats a compliment..LOL
I don't think my cynical scale could match his tho, he certainly plays that role with excellence.
Little did I know, my DW started some sweet peppers, mixed in with my hots. And something is WRONG. I don't know why but AGAIN this yr, they come up, get 3-5" tall and STOP. I had thought 2 yrs ago it was the potting soil, last yr the same problem with differnt brand and this yr, yet another brand (Scotts or Miracle grow).
Got em under a heat lamp, with an oil filled radiater under the starting bench ( upstairs in the house) so warmth is not it..dunno. I am flummoxed, I am sure its not TMV ( I smoke) but otherwise, clueless. We'll see what happens when they get outdoors. Last year some made it just fine, but were wayyyyyy late for harvest, I got ONE jamaican hot chocolate, zero fatalis, and loads of jalapenos and Holy Mole hybreds ( which suck).
This crop is only 3 jamaican chocs. ( from that one last yr!) a slew of Jamaican Hot Red ( a squash type pepper, we call space ships, very hot) and too many Hungarian wax, which I don't care for either, little heat, hard, tough skin..and mold if dried, get chewy if canned..
THEN I realized I didn't start ANY jalapenos..which I eat a qt of a week all yr. 3=4 a day with my jobsite lunch, and whenever I make dinner mexicali. So I may have to buy some started, but they are hybred and have a lot less heat than the jalaps I get from Tomato Growers Supply which are too hot for most grocery stores to sell with out a warning.
I blame the confusion on the pups..they turned our world upside down..lol. Just today, I finally cut em loose..no fenced in pen, doors of teh house wide open, and took em down to the pond for swimming lessons..that was a hoot, one of them (Flan, the mexican dessert) is a good swimmer, the rest are jus bozo's on the water edge and tried to drink the whole pond.
Why I am up at 400 am is beyond me, the back finally quit hurting as bad and I can't sleep for the noise from the cicadas, it's deafening here.
I fanally realized it was YOU who emailed me.., man, I'm slow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Maybe you have TOO much heat on those peppers???I did some research on planting containers this year, primarily the pony packs, pellets, and the Speedling trays. I noticed that the plants i transferred to styrofoam coffee cups did the best, so i thought stryofoam was the answer for moderating the temp of roots or whatever. The online research turned up that the SIZE of the planting container was much more important than the composition; i.e. a larger container made a larger, healthier plant.I showed this pic earlier on, but here are two sets of tomatillos (nightshade family, like peppers), the sole difference being one set was transplanted to the larger cups when they got well up out of the starter mix.My peppers look healthy, but they aren't growing that fast either. I left all of them in pony packs until planting in the HH, though, so next year i'll tansplant them to styro cups as soon as they fill out the pony pack enough for the roots to hang together. The other thing i liked about the styro cups, besides insulating the roots, is that the angle on the cup makes it much easier to get the root ball out without mangling than from a plastic pot. Also, the roots have more vertical room to extend than with a blocky plant pot.
Ya know what?
I think ya nailed it..not the heat, but the peat pots. I start the seeds in lil nursery type trays ( 1" cube cells) and transplant the critters into the peat pots.
Tomatoes Rosiee did are in "solo" cups like 12Oz size, with holes drilled in the bottom..I drilled the whole stack at once.
The ONLY common denominater is the peat pots from yr. to yr. they must be stunting the peppers, the maters are way good.
I dunno about the heat, this is the first time I cookedd them this way, I was starting them in a fairly cold room, with grow lights ( flourescent) and tried this as an alt.
But the frikkin pots...???? That has me thinking.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Well...i looked up peat pots and peppers and found this: http://www.ecoseeds.com/Pepper.growing.tips.htmlI don't have good luck with peat pots at all. They seem to just wick the moisture out of the soil and when i tried planting them whole, they've kept the roots from expanding. I've found peat pots in the compost and in the beds, undissolved, after three years.Peat PELLETS work, though, the kind that sit in a tray with dimples in it - easy to water from the bottom. I have several trays like that which i can keep covered until the seedlings appear, then immediately remove the cover so damping-off doesn't occur. They were very good for germination, but as soon as i see roots outside the pellet they go in a styro cup. This was the most successful progression of all that i tried this Spring, though next year, i'll probably just sow directly in cups inside dishpans (16 cups fit tightly in a dollar-store dishpan, making them easier to handle) and cover with a piece of glass while the germinate. Second-best plants were started in pony packs and transplanted to styro cups.The regular potting soil you're using might be a little coarse for the small seeds, too. I tried starter mix this year and liked the consistency, but i'll just sift some mushroom compost for next year's batch.
Daymm!
Ok, now it's final, marry me. Please.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Sure, when the work's all done this fall!
Check him for ticks first!
That'll work for now..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I thought that was Cicatydid's job?
There was a plant closeout yesterday in town and, since I've decided to go overboard on tomatoes this year, mostly so I can try that "Oregon Weave," I picked up a variety of indeterminates.Included was a couple "Cherokee Purples," a variety I tried last year, but they were slow to come on and I didn't get very many ripe ones.Into the hoophouse with them!And I can do without this cold rain that started yesterday!
You've still got room in your HH??!?!! I snuck in a few nasturtiums between the tomatoes last night, but things are really starting to take off in there. Squash are just starting to run. I have screens in both doors now. We've had rain, but it couldn't be timed more perfectly. I sent you an email yesterday a.m. about the Frontline, didn't hear back. OK if i order you a year's worth? I'll just do it if i don't hear back by this afternoon.
Yes on the Frontline!I'm being pretty selective about what is going into the hoophouse for the season, since I don't have a LOT of room. Mostly some long season Tomatoes, Peppers and and a cucumber. I think I'm going to throw together a Cloche for the other bedding plants that need heat until the weather warms up some.Outside, my brassicas are doing fine along with chard...still a bunch more to plant.I've been pretty busy with the log work, actually...
BTW, snakes are good...not worm eaters that I've ever been aware of....and the rubber boas may take on the voles...
You need more HH, obviously! Yesterday i harvested the first cabbage leaves to go into the dog food. I've gotta get that solar dryer built... Meds ordered and done. The vet gets the meds very quickly, then we meet. Send me your snail mail addy so i can take an envelope with me to drop them off at the PO right after.I'm looking forward to your "Fine Birdhouse" thread! I sent the vet your timber-framing pics; i think he's a frustrated architect. He just built a solar-heated house for his mum, who recently passed.
Y'know, this thread has become so long that it seemed it had been going at least a month. I was getting a little anxious about progress in the HH, but it's been only two weeks since i planted the starts...one day short, actually. Relax, breathe!!!! <G>My plants have blossoms, but no leetle fruits yet. The fruit trees might just do something spectacular this year, though, if i keep them watered enough. They are looking fine...
Hanging on to that thing for eight hours, you feel beat to pieces...and i don't even have rocks to deal with.
Are you breaking fresh ground? Is that an old Troy Bilt? If the ground has been broken some time in recent history, Dad's old TB can be operated with one hand as you walk alongside of it. Maybe you need new tines? Or if its jumping, don't go so deep so fast?
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
It's not fresh ground anymore. The first time i tilled up the yard was after a fellow got through grading it after i backfilled the foundation and it was well and truly compacted by the time the big machinery got done running over it. The alfalfa clumps that took hold sine are worse than rocks you can just hop over...more like the Rope-Monster has gained control of the machine and is trying to suck it into the bowels of the earth to melt it down into wind-chimes or similar torture devices.The tiller is an Ariens Rocket V with a B&S engine. It works well enough and it's done a LOT of tilling. I've tried out my neighbor's TroyBuilt which has a lot fewer squeaks and creaks, shifts more easily, turns more easily, makes finer soil, etc.The Ariens is on permanent loan and the TroyBuilts are $$$, so i will happily endure.
Dad had replaced his Troy Bilt tines a few years back. Just amazing what the difference was. IIRC, it was somewhere around $80 back then. I've attempted to use a front tine model a couple times and was happy to return to the TB. I've never used any other rear tine model.
Breaking compacted ground can be some work, but the stuff that has already been busted up is usually pretty easy. Just a matter of having the patience to go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth... Unless you hit a big root or rock or some such, it isn't hard to guide it from the side (although I do use two hands for turning 180). And I think Dad's old TB's handle will tilt to the side (to make it easier to control it from the side), but I've never tried that feature.
I can't turn around on a stamp, but it isn't too bad. Tip the back end up, boogie around, and drop it back down. But I'm not fond of tilling next to a buliding or sidewalk or such.
The tiller is an Ariens Rocket V with a B&S engine. It works well enough and it's done a LOT of tilling. I've tried out my neighbor's TroyBuilt which has a lot fewer squeaks and creaks, shifts more easily, turns more easily, makes finer soil, etc.The Ariens is on permanent loan and the TroyBuilts are $$$, so i will happily endure.
You would probably need to find an old Troy Bilt anyway. Not surprisingly they can go for a pretty penny. Just did an eBay search and saw 2 or 3 old ones. Don't suppose you could make enough off selling the Ariens to buy an old TB?jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
On a lot of the tillers i've looked at, the tines are bolted on so that you can change them yourself. The Ariens had the tines welded to a shaft and the replacement shaft, last i checked, was about $300 - another flaw in the brand. MT isn't exactly a hotbed <snork> of tiller activity; i've checked a lot on ebay before this was given to me, but i don't suppose it would hurt to check again. I read somewhere that the respected TB brand was taken over by some low-rent lawnmower company and they deteriorated, but i can't recall specifics now.
I read somewhere that the respected TB brand was taken over by some low-rent lawnmower company and they deteriorated, but i can't recall specifics now.
Right, I think it was MTD. So you'd want a pre-MTD one. They're now mass produced and don't last forever (if treated right).
This one looks like an older one. Probably not as old as Dad's, cuz I don't think they had the tractor tread when he got his:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=360058600190&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=023
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This old girl looks a lot like Dad's:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Troy-Bilt-Horse-Roto-Tiller-in-Great-Condition-Not-MTD_W0QQitemZ260246337148QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260246337148&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Wheew, the bid is up to $400!
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This one is newer than Dad's, but has electric start (not that you need electric start):
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-HP-Original-Troy-Bilt-Horse-Roto-Tiller-and-Furrower_W0QQitemZ330241900929QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330241900929&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
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This one is a freaking find! (but not a great price). Hate to think what it would be up to if he'd known it was 'troy bilt', not 'troy built'.
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-HP-TROY-BUILT-ROTO-TILLER-OLD-STYLE-HORSE_W0QQitemZ140238327937QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140238327937&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
View Imagejt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I did a search on Troy tillers using "Distance" as the sort feature after we chatted about them, but all the good tillers are in the Midwest or farther. One 8 Hp monster in good repair was in Dallas, drool, drool.What's odd is that the links show up, but only one of the images in full, and the others are partial or don't show up at all. What are the rest of you guys seeing?
Edited 6/5/2008 6:12 pm by splintergroupie
Are you driving to the Fest in August? If you can come through Kansas City, I will GIVE you an 8 hp Troy-Bilt.Let me know if you are interested. I gotta run. I will check back in later.Chuck
I was thinking about driving to the Fest once-upon-a-time, but with the price of gas now i'm more inclined to use one of my FF tickets i've been saving for a rainy day. Too big for carry on???Thanks much for the offer, but sell that thing on ebay and make a bundle!Nice to know you're still around, Chuck. I haven't 'seen' you in the threads i frequent. You know enough to stay out of the Tavern, don't you? <G>
Edited 6/5/2008 8:38 pm by splintergroupie
Oh, I'm still here , I just don't have a lot to say.Someone has to be sure that Bill H is giving out the proper kind of electrical advice!My wife has agreed to go to the fest with me if I can get my ducks in a row and get caught up with a few projects I've got going.I'm hoping to make it and looking forward to seeing you again.Chuck
Good to see you're keeping Bill on the straight and narrow. I'll no doubt have some electrical Q's for you when i start working on my holding-pond/pump/timer issues.
Are you driving to the Fest in August? If you can come through Kansas City, I will GIVE you an 8 hp Troy-Bilt.
I realize you were talking to SG, but got any pics of it?jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
I'll try and get some pics this weekend. I have to dig it out of storage first. I bought it new in the mid eighties but have not had a need for it for the last 10 or 12 years.Chuck
Pictures as promised.
Snow plow, weights and chains, TOO??? Oh, my....every time i hand-shovel my 200' driveway i think i ought to get a plow for my tractor. Then winter gets over and....
If you are sure you want to give it away, i'll drive and come get it, unless i've lost my place in line to John. Day-um, that is a gorgeous machine...
You are NUMBER ONE. Would the KC area be a good spot to overnite on the way to or from the fest? We could round up a few K.C. area BT'ers and have dinner together.If we were lucky, maybe we could lure Bill Hartman, CagIV, and some others out.Just a thought. The tiller is yours . E-Mail me with a phone # and I'll call you and we will firm up the details.Chuck
Edited 6/7/2008 7:47 pm by IBEWChuck
WOW!
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I appreciate the help that i have received from others in my life, and I'm just passing it on. I know that the tiller will find a home where it can be used rather than setting in a shed on perpetual standby!You still have to get the heavy son of a gun home though.
Chuck
I just emailed you my phone number so we can talk whenever is convenient. I'm wondering about whether to bring the VW or the Toyota. I can camp in the VW better, but the Toy has A/C. Then i got to wondering if it would even fit in the VW...ja, i'd better drive the Toy. I have a ramp that i've used to load/unload my other tiller to take it to friends' gardens to do their plots, but i suppose the handles will have to come off "Scarlett" to fit her under the canopy.
Oh! I just love having a mission! The mini-Fest sounds great, too, but i run the risk of having to be nice to Bill H. after i meet him in person. Gah, i just hate meeting Republicans i end up liking....
I'll call you in a day or so. My wife is yanking my chain to go with her somewhere now.
I have a pretty full day planned for tomorrow so don't give up on me.I will call when I get caught up. I also know enough to know that you aren't a morning person, so I will try to respect that.Chuck
I can do morning. I'll just have to record it to play back later to see what happened.The way i see it, we've got a couple months to work it out. No worries...
Edited 6/7/2008 11:12 pm by splintergroupie
If you are sure you want to give it away, i'll drive and come get it, unless i've lost my place in line to John
You were the line. I just wanted a look at 'er. Don't know if I've ever seen one with the blade attachment!
I'm wondering about whether to bring the VW or the Toyota.
They don't take up much bed space, but they are a bit tall. So if you've got a low topper on a truck, you'd probably want to take the topper off.
I have a ramp that i've used to load/unload my other tiller
The ramps we use are a couple 2x8's (or so) with metal clips on the end to clip onto the tailgate. If she's running, you can drive her right up the ramps. Make sure you tie her down. Otherwise the first time you brake hard, she will want to tip forward onto the engine. I usually put her in gear and chockthe wheels so she won't roll around.
If she performs anywhere near as well as Dad's, you will be in love! Just amazing what a bit of patience and a good touch can do with a Troy Bilt. Dad could just about do magic with his.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Good to hear i wasn't usurping your 'position' with my new-found lust for her. I've never seen a blade for one before, either. Or wheel weights, for that matter. One year Ian and i tilled the yard using the Ariens and a borrowed 6 HP TB Horse. We switched off during the many hours it took us bec the TB machine was so much easier to run than the Ariens and did a much finer job, too. Not knocking the orange beast - it beats shoveling all to pieces! - but it's not something you want to stay attached to for very long, either.I have lots of those ratcheting tie downs from art fair days so we'll practice some tiller bondage before hitting the road. The Toy has some attachments spots for hooks at the corners the vw doesn't have, another point in its favor.
She sure is pretty. Much newer than the one I'm using. Did you say it was pre-2001? (I think 2000 or 2001 was when Troy Bilt sold out)
You can disengage the tines? That would be useful. Is that the original gas tank? Dad's had the engine replaced and when he did so, his metal tank got replaced with a plastic one just like that one (not that it matters).
Have you ever pushed snow with that blade? I would have guessed that the center of gravity would be a bit high to be a good pusher (even with the wheel weights).
SG will put that to good use. The old girl (tiller) will enjoy being put to work again.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
I've been hanging truck tires off the handlebars on the Ariens tiller for extra weight - the very definition of unwieldly. Scarlett is going to make putting the rest of the yard in shape a gadzillion times easier and if i can just make a couple passes along the drive in winter i can get in and out with concrete blocks for weight on the rear axle. I had a neighbor who would plow me when i couldn't beat the snow down with driving on it, but he moved last fall so i did a fair amount of shoveling the past winter. Another neighbor with a huge tractor tried to help last winter and pushed a whole lot of driveway gravel up to the parking area for me. :^[
The handle bars come off with one bolt. I will check the actual measurements [overall height, width, and length] and get back to you. The bed topper is probably OK.Chuck
No need to fix anything on the tiller; you've already transcended the Outer Rings of Generosity. If you just tell me what it needs before firing it up, it would be good practice for me to 'learn' the machine. If you can find the manuals, that would be excellent, too, or i can get some ordered/downloaded before i pick it up. I'm a committed manual reader! I spent several evenings in the bathtub last winter with my new camera and the multiple manuals taking various shots of my toes. I've been googling the tiller to learn more about it, although i confess to spending the last 20 minutes looking at YouTube videos of roto-tilling Hell...except for one showing a TB tiller doing a stately march across the garden patch all my itself. There's one of a 40 HP John Deere tiller in which you can almost make out the operator through the clouds of dust, funny stuff. I've never used a front-mount tiller as shown in some of the clips...and now i never will. Yikes!One of the good things i noticed in the clips is that you can back the tiller up without chancing losing your toes. The handles must be longer than the Ariens bec that's a real bugaboo with mine. I have to be very careful and that steel shroud skinned up my ankles a few times before i became so careful. I'd never thought of pushing dirt with the blade. I'm going to re-work a retaining wall on one side of my walk-out basement to be tidier and i'm already envisioning pushing dirt around with that to fill the tiers. More happy dancing going on here!
Um...
You don't like happen to um..
Have them toe pics handy, now would ya?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
The last time we looked at feet pix together it wasn't pretty, remember?
LOL.
My foot brace kinda quashes the 'Toement'
speakin of feet..you doing ok with with your friend?
Pups stole my plantar support and took off with it, what will the neighbors think when they find THAT!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I was laying off the sod-busting around the trees seeing if that would help the fibroma, but i see no change. I'm shoveling with the other foot instead today bec that has to be finished and the sod dumped in the sod-pile before i can commence the Blumenhugel. I might be too sensitive now, but i seem to feel it all the time. But...every time i start to get nervous about it, i just tell myself i'll walk as far as i can and then i'll crawl from there. Next time i get to civilzation i'm going to find some sort of shoe cushion i can drill a hole in to give it some breathing room, though; for now...life goes on. What is a plantar support and what does it do? I'm imagining a thing to fit your arch and wondering if it would be almost as good as a steel-shank boot. Which reminds me, i have a pair of cowboy boots around here somewhere..that might be the ticket....
The support is like an ankle brace. Velcro around the ankle, then a stirrup under the heel, just behind the instep. Works well, to keep the tendon in the happy place.
14.95 at footsmart.com.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Sounds uncomfortable. One of the reasons i decided not to be lesbian after all was the elastic ankles on the baggy pants drove me crazy.
Okaaaaaaaayyyyyyy.....
snork..it isn't as bad as not having it, but mostly the foot is better by leaps and bounds.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I found this delightful mini-farm blog during my search of the internet for "horse tiller" links: "Tiny Farm Blog - Organic micro-farming with two acres and some tools ~ a daily photo journal..."http://tinyfarmblog.com/tag/rototiller/
Your good Karma is paying off.....that's a nice looking machine....good for many years...good for you and kudos to your benefactor!There's a chainsaw shop locally that still carries the older Troybilt tiller parts. I just picked up a couple new drive belts the other day. Next time I'm in there I'll ask about the range of new old parts available and how deep into the machine they go.One thing nice about the older machines is they're built pretty stout: My tines were getting a little worn down a few years ago and, rather than buy a new set, I just built them back up with hard-face welding rod and ground them sharp....just like new....maybe better. The company also used to sell, as an option, hardened steel tines as an option....a good option especially if you've got rocks or especially abrasive soil.I noticed in the photos, he had the furrowing attachment which is pretty handy for laying in potatoes, trenching ahead of yourself in seed rows to lay in compost and fertilizer and for making raised beds.One of the things the original Troybilt outfit used to do was send out a quarterly newsletter that, though partly hype, had a lot of honest gardening tips. I'll scrounge around and see if I kept any of those.When you mentioned in a previous post of using truck tires for counterweights on the handlebars and commenting how awkward it was, I thought "Well, Yeah! Now you know how a buck sheep feels!"BTW, I haven't had a chance to shop too hard for a monitor yet...this one is holding up, though I feel like I should be wearing sunglasses!
Since i'm getting my Karma pay-off in one huge lump sum, i'm kinda worried about what happens now!I was wondering if that was the furrower or the cultivator...there were two attachments that looked similar on the TB site, but no enlargements so i could be certain. The log-splitting attachment is interesting, too, but again i couldn't see just how it uses the power from the tiller. http://www.troybilt.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_14102_91381_54970_-1I've also done business with the local chainsaw/lawnmower/etc. repair shop. When i got the Ariens i couldn't get it to start, so i took it in to them. Turned out someone had done something earlier to the throttle cable so that it runs on "Stop" and shuts off on the full-throttle setting. That took three weeks and some $$ to find out, so i'm glad i remembered that 'stupid-lesson' this year.I was reading a lot of good info on "e-pinions" earlier and the wearing of the tines was a prominent mention. I know a guy who welds who could do that facing for me, i'm sure. The only really neg comment on e-pinions was from a rental company complaining about the clutch slipping, but the next opinion mentioned that the clerk should read the manual, that there is an adjustment for a wearing belt. Someone else mentioned a squealing belt, but i figured the same thing and a shot of belt dressing would likely cure that, too. Someone complained it was was too large for raised beds in the community garden plots....kind of a 'duh' moment, really.I'm going to be tilling and planting oats and vetch on the lawn-to-be when i get it home. I can't wait to start making humurus! I can't recall between the BBQ at the old folks home, cat-sitting for 14 felines, and occasionally coming out of my delirious joy about Scarlett if i mentioned that i have your Frontline for Les Grands Chiens. It will go out on Monday since i missed the post on Sat. when i picked it up. When i get a postal cost, i'll drop you an email. Speaking of old folks, how goes the MIL deal?I'm not touching the buck sheep joke. I've been enjoying hanging out here lately too much, lol...
The belt does need to be adjusted occasionally. When it squeals or the tines start stopping with no obstructions, you want to correct it right away so you don't toast your belt. Takes just a couple of minutes with a 9/16" end wrench and a small hammer that I keep handy.The belts last a long time if you take care of them.In the photo, it looked as though the one you're getting may have a threaded adjustment, which would probably be easier.I think I mentioned once my early days with hours behind a front tine tiller in rocky soil. It did the job....eventually....but the rear tine is a breeze in comparison.You're gonna love that machine. And I wouldn't worry about cashing in your Karma...just try to be good most of the time... (ever notice that bad Karma comes down ten times worse than the good stuff?)One comment on the ashes: We always used them from a wood stove...always left them in a pile in the rain for a while to leach the "salts" out. During the depression, my grandparents leached lye out of ashes as a component for home-made soap....then spread the ashes in the garden. Never any problems that I knew of.MIL is still on about 4 more weeks of bed-rest....doing pretty well, considering; her attitude is surprisingly good....
I know that you have to deal with squealing belt pronto or they get glazed. An entire new set of tines are still only $80...about a quarter what the Ariens' tines cost.
I was over at some friends tonight (the ones whose cats i've been caring for) who have this machine, Tecumseh engine. After a couple glasses of wine the fellow just HAD to show me that he could start his tiller with one pull, although it looks to have been stored outside for the last 25 years - it's kinda light pink now. He also started his welder, gas weedeater, and lawnmower before that phase of the evening was over; his wife is a patient sort. We further entertained ourselves by selecting Obama's cabinet. We pretty much agreed on Jim Webb for VP. They liked Richardson for SecState, but i think i made the case for Hillbillary for that. Fun evening...
I used to make soap, but i never was so hard-core as to make the lye with ashes. I have a large lavender plant i had to move; it would be nice to use it in soap this year if it recovers enough. I'm going to forego the ashes on the veggie garden in any case, just because of the native alkalinity of the soil.
Good to hear your MIL is coping well, esp after the big karma dump you've experienced lately.
Maybe you need some fowl?
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/
Chickens would provide you with eggs, scratch up the soil, eat misc (including bugs), and fertilizer. Guineas eat ticks and make a racket when someone pulls in. Geese... hmm, well geese are worthless but they do poop a lot.
Chickens usually provide the most bang per buck. I've seen a book somewhere that detailed different types of mobile coops so that you could move them around your property. If you have a farm store nearby, they can often get reduced shipping on chicks.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
I've considered chickens as a source of protein for the pets and to labor in the fields, make eggs, etc. Frankly, birds give me the willies for now - that could change - and i'm have to take steps to make sure the seven larger critters wouldn't 'harvest' them before their time, but they might serve the cycle here pretty well once i got up to speed on keeping them. I've heard they can do a fair amount of damage to a crop, too. I just don't know enough yet to take that leap.
I'd actually prefer to host other people's birds, like the neighbor's horse eating down my field so i don't have to mow....but i'm also not responsible for the rest of its life for it. I could see me paying vet bills for a chicken....
Frankly, birds give me the willies for now
Have you been reading Daphne du Maurier?
If I come across the title of that mobile chicken coop book, I'll post it. Maybe you can get your library to borrow it. There were some neat ideas. Some just converted a trailer into a coop with chicken wire fence. Just roll the coop into position, reassemble the fence panels, and let the ramp down. They come out and cleanup the fenced section. Predators shouldn't be a problem unless you've got large birds of prey.
You've got too much going on right now. Maybe this winter when you have free time you can look into it for next year. you don't pay vet bills for chickens.... you get out the hatchet. :)
LOL, I can just see you starting a thread about August 2009 about the 1001 uses for fresh eggs!
On a side note, there was an article in the paper a few weeks back about some people in a subdivision who were complaining because their neighbor had a couple hundred fowl in their back yard. Lots of misc, but among the dozen or so chicken breeds was the attached. I've never heard of a Turken, so had to Google image search it. Real cutie.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
The common name for them is a "Chicken Tractor" I had a few when I had my birds. Great for targeting areas that need chicken-izing vs. free range throughout the garden..chickens will kill to get to grape tomatoes and cherry tomatoes. And they eat a lot more greens than one would think, they had stripped about an 1/8 acre bare in a few weeks..I'm talking about 30 birds.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I've got a co-worker that has misc animals. I've been plotting to order a box of chicks and dump them on her so that in 6 months or so i will have a supply of fresh eggs :)
Although... she likes foofy chickens instead of work horse chickens. hmm...
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
The absolute worst exp. I had w/fowl was @%$!&^ Opossums!
They'd get in the coop and nest boxes at night, and the next morning, nuthing but toenails and beaks. I finally ductaped a laser pointer and a maglite to the 12ga Win. Mod.50. I'd sit with a beer in a chair by the back door, and if I heard a chicken comotion ( they'd get antsy if they smelled a possum) I'd give a flashlight burst by not fully nailing the Mag lite button. If I got eyeballs looking back the laser dot would get me dialed in.
Only got one possum, and that was after it already got in the coop and raised hell..point blank..woke the rest of the birds up pretty fast.
Had a redneck friend in NC that went out and his birds were going berserk at a coon that got in..he opened the door and just started blasting away.
Next day he went out and looked and he had shot all his chickens..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
My neighbor shot a skunk in his henhouse, then put it in the garbage can across the road from my bedroom window...and far from his own house.I'm seeing more downsides to the chicken and egg question.
Maybe you are..............
Chicken?
Bwooock!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
You egging her on?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Who me?
I like my bits and pcs. attached where they are..and besides, she has my phone#'s AND Address..can't run, can't hide. Nope. Not me. nosiree.
Altho she'd be proud of today, I lanced an abcess on my cats belly..( with a real vet watching) and he is doing great ( the cat that is, the vet only bled a little, ooops) except for the goop I have to squeeze in the ensueing hole 2 x a day and 4 eyedroppers of antibiot's. He don't like that part much. 22 lbs of hellacious furry fury.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Since you were a good vet tech today, i won't launch my "turkey" rejoinder. <G> I once asked the vet if i could take home the spaying/neutering spare parts. He thought that was a hoot, but i was serious about not wasting all that protein. He said he agreed, but if anyone learned that their Fido's or Fluffy's reproductive organs got recycles as cat food, they might be less supportive of our non-profit organ-eye-zation.
My one & only experiment with chickens ended the same way. Only it was 3 or 4 at once. They were just killing for the thrill of it. Got 2 or 3 with the neighbor's .22. Man, those buggers are hard to kill! Point blank to the head; they play dead for a while then get up & start running around again. Yea, 12ga, that'd do it!
Eggs can be frozen by opening them into icecube trays and puncturing the yolk. I'm wondering if they couldn't actually be frozen whole, too, like tomatoes in the skin. For pet food, i'd use the whole egg anyhow.I used to have a neighbor who kept pet exotic birds. I liked those eggs, the birds not so much, and henhouses make me gag. Maybe they can be done nicely, but the one's i've seen up close and personal just make my skin crawl. I've seen the movable pens in TekSupply catalog; that's a preferable idea, but you'e absolutely right that i'm not near up to speed about taking on new lifeforms. Even worse than the cats and dogs killing the chix prematurely, what if they became friends? Then i'd be in a double-dill pickle of offing their buddies to feed to them...and that can't be good karma...
I wouldn't worry about that . One dog carcass should last the chickens a long time. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thinking outside the coop again, aren't you? ;^)
used to have a neighbor who kept pet exotic birds. I liked those eggs, the birds not so much
Araucanas lay a colored egg:
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/product/araucanas_americanas.html
You could design the coop to minimize "buildup", but the problem would be in the winter. They'd need a more sealed building to put up with the cold...hmm, I guess you could keep them in the hoop house then. Seems like one of those tree hugger articles mentioned keeping them in the green house and he thought it kept the GH a few degrees warmer having them in there :)
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Chix in the hoophouse in winter... that is brilliant. It might have to be sectioned off to keep the heat in a smaller space. I wonder if they need it dark; all the chicken coops i've been in were dank, musty places, but i don't know if that's by design or by necessity of the material available to the builder.
After reading your link, i blanched....roosters.....early morning crowing....are they really necessary????
Chix in the hoophouse in winter... that is brilliant. It might have to be sectioned off to keep the heat in a smaller space.
Wow, so you're like planning two years down the road? Woman of vision! (I don't even know what I'm doing this time next week)
I wonder if they need it dark; all the chicken coops i've been in were dank, musty places,
As long as it gets dark at night, they're happy.
After reading your link, i blanched....roosters.....early morning crowing....are they really necessary????
You only need roosters if you want to breed your own chicks. My guess around here is that most people don't breed their own (whether they have roosters or not). They just order their chicks from Mcmurry or via their farm store.
Chickens are inexpensive ($1-4/ea) and low maint critters, but you do need to keep them watered and if possible shut them up at night.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Edited 6/11/2008 4:05 pm by JohnT8
While I do like farm fresh eggs, I'd much rather have someone else maintain the flock.
Figures that the tree hugger mag would have stuff on them fowl:
If you're thinking of a walk-in shed with a small outside run of barren earth, it's time to change your thinking ? there's a better way to keep your hens. Instead of a traditional chicken shed, use a small moveable pen that allows chickens to eat bugs (ticks, grasshoppers, worms, fleas, etc.), grass (yes, chickens do eat grass and plants) and weed seeds. Let your chickens graze in the yard and move the pen every day or two. This creates a synergistic relationship?both the chickens and the lawn benefit.
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There are lots of grasshoppers around here, but my hens patrol the garden perimeter fence and really reduce the numbers of insects in the garden. Before I got the hens, some crops were totally destroyed by the 'hoppers. The hens also have helped control scorpions — they peck off the stinger and then work on the rest.
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We have a 40-acre horse farm. Unfortunately, where there are horse barns there also are rats and mice. The horses leave bits of grain on the ground after they eat, and some undigested grain shows up in their manure. With all of this food, we had a serious rat and mouse problem.
My grandfather set out rat poison, and a trip to the veterinarian and $500 later, I found out that my Jack Russell terrier really likes the taste of it. She is fine, but I refuse to allow any more poison on our farm.
Instead, we got chickens. The birds accompany the horses and clean up all the grains on the ground and in the horses' manure. Their careful gleaning eliminates the source of food for the mice and rats, and now the pests have all but disappeared.
The benefit I had not counted on when I added chickens to our farm is that now we no longer have a flea problem. The chickens also help control files and lawn grubs. I love having the chickens. Not only do they control unwanted pests, but they are fun to watch, too. We have experimented with several different breeds, but our favorites are Silkies and Barred Rocks.
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An outbreak of pillbugs (rolypoly bugs) was eating us alive! Eating up all our tender little lettuce plants, that is. The big greenhouse was filthy with them. So was the hoophouse. Even the new midsized greenhouse was infested with these little wriggling crustaceans.
They were everywhere. Big ones. Little ones. And lots of in-between ones. We had to do something before they ate us out of greenhouse and home. But what? We searched all our books and files for nontoxic controls, to no avail. Old boo ks said to use DDT, lindane or chlordane, all toxic pesticides now banned in the United States. New books said pillbugs usually feed mostly on dead organic matter, but that wasn't true in our greenhouses.
Finally I remembered a book about using portable coops to let chickens feast in garden beds. Before we replanted the lettuce beds, we penned a half-dozen hens in a bed. The minute they spotted the first pillbug, garden soil flew, hens' feet became yellow blurs, and the chickens' heads bobbed up and down like runaway sewing machines.
After about an hour, things calmed down and the chickens were napping on the freshly fluffed soil. There wasn't a pillbug to be found.
GEORGE DEVAULTEmmaus, Pennsylvania
ooooh, a chicken moat!
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/1988-05-01/The-Chicken-Moat-Enclosure.aspx
This might be the book I was trying to think of:
View Imagejt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
The idea of penning chiz on the bed to let them sanitize it before planting is pretty brilliant. Tilling, debugging, and (naturally) fertilization done in one fell swoop - i like that sort of efficiency! If the beds were cleaned out earlier, then the chix were placed in the 'moat'...seems like a great pattern. And i could raise extra corn to feed them through the winter....lol...
Next winter i'll have to study up and make some decisions about the chix and bugs. I certainly saw zero effect from the lacewing eggs i purchased for big bucks to deal with aphids. I'm thinking of contacting the company to tell 'em what a flop that was.
Grasshoppers outside the greenhouse are doing better than the ones inside. I did put out some grasshopper bait when i first saw them, sparingly, and it seems to have knocked them back. I have at least two toads in there that i know of...i can tell them apart.
Thanks for that information and the book recommendation. I'm resisting getting one more project started, but that looks like a good wintertime dream-book.
I've considered chickens as a source of protein for the pets and to labor in the fields
Not anything I intend to eat, after working with them for several months many years ago. Today I was enjoined to rescue 3. A friend died Friday, his girlfriend's reportedly disinterested (spoke at length with his mother today). I'll check tomorrow.
Suffering is unconscionable.
There's a guy in N Va who's very successfully combined chickens and grocery-growing. The brown eggs were nice.
Will Lola approve?PAHS works. Bury it.
So sorry about your friend. There seems to be a great deal of that going around lately. Good for you for seeing a need and filling it.
Did you work in one of those chicken houses? That is the archetype of Hell IMO.
Be sure to let me know how the interspecies relations pan out. I'm wondering if baby chix or grown ones would be more accepted by the mutts and cats; i wouldn't want to be constantly riding herd on all of them. If i do this, i'm getting AJinN on board; his wife is nuts for chooks and they have a full house of fur-bearing children, too.
Did you work in one of those chicken houses? That is the archetype of Hell IMO.
Worse, several. Not nice critters, but very possibly population density had something to do with it. Egg-breeding was the point. Successful, I understood. Everybody I worked with went veggie on chicken days. <shudder>
Lola's pretty hard on the locals. As you know, I'm not fond of fences. May have to soften the stance. We have 'coons and 'possums. Do (live) chickens attract bear?
May also get told to MYOB. No love lost between the GF and the mother, who has title to the real estate. I tried to be supportive of both.
Unclear which I need to be tractor mechanic/salesperson for. Need a crawler? Hoe?
Suddenly they have a lot in common. Grief. Unfortunately, neither gets it. My ears are ringing. Learned more than I ever wanted to know.
Then I got news of another bereavement. Hubby of the woman running the local food bank, who I like, if not her calling. I prefer teaching 'em to fish (or farm). She seemingly missed that part of Scripture. Common sense to me.PAHS works. Bury it.
Worse, several. Not nice critters, but very possibly population density had something to do with it. Egg-breeding was the point. Successful, I understood. Everybody I worked with went veggie on chicken days.
Population and breed has a lot to do with it. Growing up, we had penned and free range, and the free range were BY FAR happier birds. You could do penned if you were able to move the pen to different locations. But if you have a high population confined in a small space, they're not going to be good neighbors.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Egg-breeding...i read an abstract in a poultry journal (Poultry Science?) about density and egg-laying. (I check up on those wild-eyed radicals at PETA to see if they're pulling my leg.) The point was to find out at what stocking density that egg-production dropped off so as to become economically infeasible. No matter how many chix they stuck in a crate, the egg-laying kept pace with the dying. No advantage to the breeder at all to limit stocking density. Never mind the shape the hens were in....
You could fix your problem by allowing the chix the run of the house. I wonder if they'd gang up on Lola...? Good luck on both the explicit and implicit parts of walking that fine line. Maybe i could haul the hoe behind the Tacoma with the tiller in it...
Grief is an interesting litmus test. I've made some very close friends on account of losing Ian, but also lost several friends due to the strain. Neither is in her right mind, i guarantee you, so take a big breath and a long view.
I like teaching 'em to fish, too, but i've never let a fisherman starve when the fish weren't biting. I'm $15K, about a year and a half of living expenses for me, into a local "charity" although i hadn't quite planned it that way. Ah, well, it was a good cause and i can't take it with me. We're pretty much all worms and compost anyway, so i don't get too excited anymore about how many zeroes there are.
You could fix your problem by allowing the chix the run of the house.
Say what?
We don't do litter boxes here. Once had a peacock (hen) infestation. Wasn't difficult to track down the owners, who suggested we let them indoors. They'd love our bar joists, be easy to grab. While they #### everywhere. Truly amazing production.
As my house client, who used to live near them, opined: they're welcome anytime they're ready for the oven. Are peahens tasty?
Pretty amazing to glance out the door glass to see a bird like that. Bears, raccoons, 'possums, deer we got accustomed to. Either they fly better than it appears or they had a hell of a hike.
We have a certified PETA friend, who doesn't know a whole lot about our lifestyle up here. LMAO... DW's helped out with cat rescues. Fine, so long as they go elsewhere.
Both grief-stricken women weren't on my favorites list before. I was trying to be nice, helpful. In no small part out of respect for my departed friend, who never saw 40. I haven't given up, but it looks like they're going to continue the war. Where nobody wins. Sad. They really could use each other's help. Neither wanted to hear much about that.
Preferred reviewing grievances.
Still awaiting a decision as to final resting place. Ashes I'd disperse, but he wanted a coffin. Fortunately, nobody asked me to build one. Did I mention that I have a commission for a pair of mausoleum ash boxes? One for immediate occupancy. Haven't yet heard if there are specific French requirements.
Can't take it with you is apt. OTOH, so is hunger. It's a balance. The food bank lady and I had a wonderful time exploring our differences. Hmmm... that didn't come out quite right. Oh, well, I'm tired.
PAHS works. Bury it.
My only close encounter with a peacock was when i was stealing some very abused dogs one night in Feb. I was dressed in white, creeping under some dead cars toward my targets, nerves polished to a high sheen...and this damn peacock spots me and goes ballistic! I crawled under a dead tractor waiting to be found and flayed by the gun-totin' crazies who lived there, but just that one burst out of the watchbird and i was able to go about my business just as soon my heart started up again. I don't think i've ever felt quite as alive in my whole life as that escapade.I've done a few ashes boxes and one simple casket required for cremation, actually. I find keeping ashes kinda ghoulish, personally. Ian wanted to be scattered in England with an eye to bringing two sons back together - that part worked out great - and i was happy not to have him sitting in the closet in a box any longer. I'd have been happier planting a tree on top of the old boy, and hope i get recycled similarly myself.
Edited 6/11/2008 10:06 pm by splintergroupie
Intimidated by a peacock? OK.... They've got long necks, plenty to grab. But you apparently just got another rush simply reliving the episode. That's nice.
I always though an urn on the mantel was appropriate. Y'know, something to talk to.
Not that we have a mantel...
I presume you've made your wishes known to the appropriate parties. That's one of the major confusions here. There's really no good excuse for ignoring obligations and leaving the living to squabble. Well, unless that's the intent.
Had an old farmer, with 30 acres I coveted on top of the Blue Ridge, do exactly that. He thought it was funny.
Forgot to mention that I once made presentation boxes for a pair of 19th c. Chateau Lafitte bottles (later Rothschild). The owner said the boxes were nicer than the bottles. I was afraid to pick up the bottles, had the owner hold them for measurement.
Don't suppose glass tops would be appropriate for ashes.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/11/2008 10:54 pm ET by VaTom
I've done a few ashes boxes and one simple casket required for cremation, actually. I find keeping ashes kinda ghoulish, personally.
I agree. And how about those braclets they sell that you can put some of the ashes in. Blech!
Ashes are designed to be scattered. Return the person to the earth and let the circle of life continue.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
I read about getting the ashes blown into glass ornaments to hang in the window, like they did to St. Helen when her mountain blew up. "Look at that twinkle....i think that might be Harold's left eye, the good one..."
Ashes are designed to be scattered...circle of life...
The death cert came in handy with the Customs people so i didn't have to pour Ian back and forth to be sure i wasn't hiding anything in that wine bottle he was parked in until i scattered his ashes in an Infinity symbol in Bedford, outside London. It was April, really windy, so the symbol was almost immediately obliterated. Nice sense of humor on that boy...
I've been hanging truck tires off the handlebars on the Ariens tiller for extra weight
I've never used one that new, but the one I do use is well balanced. The engine offsetting the tine portion so that I can tilt it forward easily with one hand. Occasionally I will man handle it to make a tight corner, but for the most part it doesn't take much bulk to operate. I've tried to get my sister to try it, but she doesn't believe me.
ooooh, and just wait until you start re-working a section and can just walk BESIDE the tiller with one hand on the handlebar to guide it. The decadence of it all ;)
[edit to add] Dad liked the furrow attachment. I don't remember what all he used it for, but he would use it with and without the wings. If he'd had the blade, he probably would have been pushing dirt with it.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Edited 6/9/2008 1:09 am by JohnT8
The folks i visited this evening has to show me how well their Horse tiller worked. I had voiced my irritation with getting my ankles redecorated by the Ariens shroud while in Reverse, so they showed me how well the Horse balanced and backed without scraping anyone's shins.
I told them i was convinced enough to drive through several large, square States to get to one. <G>
38* predicted tonight. View Image
I'll have to dig out the paper work, but i think that i bought the tiller about 1983.The tines disengage and remove as a unit so that other attachments can be powered by the rear PTO. They sold a generator, a brush chipper. and some other things that replaced the tines.I have never removed the rear tine unit, but it only requires the removal of two bolts just to the rear of the tin disconnect lever.Everything is original on the tiller [ even the spark plug].I did push snow with it a little before I bought my first Kubota tractor. The blade angles left and right and does a decent job on snow that is not packed down. Leaving the tines on [but disconnecting them so that they don't turn] results in the tiller being almost balanced front to rear. A little upward pressure on the handles will put the biting edge of the blade right into the ground.I have used the blade on snow and to back fill ditches dug with a trencher. The angle feature worked great in that application.I did say that the tiller was all original, but it won't be when Splinti picks it up. I noticed yesterday [when taking pictures] that the rubber fuel line needed to be replaced. I will replace that and fuel it up to check the needle valve and seat condition. I want it to be in condition to work hard the way it was designed to. The new tillers made by MTD and sold as Troy-Bilts are a joke compared to the old models. I'm sure that the tiller will still be usable when Splinty is done with it and passes it on to someone else.
That be somethink I have memory of also.
Animals sometimes do a better job of getting along than humans...at least when they aren't eating each other.
I drove by a pasture yesterday where a bull was trying to "get along" with a mare. ;)
Poor guy needs to find a shorter woman! And me without my camera...
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
"I drove by a pasture yesterday where a bull was trying to "get along" with a mare."
A bull and a mare? That would be a new one on me.
Or do you have your species and gender labels confused ???
Baby's T-shirt: Now that I'm safe, I'm pro-life
The bulls are the ones with antlers, right?
Not antlers - Tusks.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_qRnIObZ1M
Q: Why do cows wear bells?
A: Their horns don't work
Funny vid!
Well, at least you know when i'm pulling your good leg!
A bull and a mare? That would be a new one on me.
Or do you have your species and gender labels confused ???
Nope, that's why I wish I'd had my camera. She was just too tall for him. After a couple seconds she just took a step or two forward and he fell off. By then I was on down the road.jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
A bull and a mare? That would be a new one on me.
Or do you have your species and gender labels confused ???
When I went by last Sunday I had my camera, but they weren't doing anything. They do seem to be buds. Walk around together. I didn't notice a water balloon, so I don't think their relationship is going to work out to their mutual satisfaction.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Are you sure that's a bull? Not a real clear side shot so I could tell.
We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it. [Sir Winston Churchill]
Are you sure that's a bull?
Ergo my reference to "water balloon". As illustrated by one of your pics:
View Image
My vote is steer with ambition (for my pic, not yours).
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Edited 6/11/2008 12:21 pm by JohnT8
I missed your "water balloon" reference.In my experience, steers don't jump cows all that much. That made me wonder if it wasn't a cow rather than a bull or steer. .Just FYI - Call it cow breeding 101 - When a cow is in heat, it will jump on the back of other cows, as if it's trying to breed the other cow. But the cow on the bottom knows that *IT* is not in heat, so it will try to get away.Other cows will sometimes try to mount a cow that's in heat. If that's the case, the cow on the bottom will stand firm, as it knows it's in heat. Which is why I wondered if you had a cow in heat trying to mount a horse just out of instinct. But it could also be a steer just goofing around - Who knows.
All sunshine makes the desert.
In my experience, steers don't jump cows all that much
And jump horses even less!
You know 1000 times more about cattle than I do. Making sure they've got feed & water is about the extent of my experience.
Attached the only side shot I had. Bit blurry zoomed pic. What I see is white-wrapped (or vacuum sealed clear ones) packages in my freezer :)
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Edited 6/11/2008 1:01 pm by JohnT8
Edited 6/11/2008 1:02 pm by JohnT8
Looks like "it" might be packing something under there. So maybe my cow in heat theory is off...
I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could propose happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others. [Thomas Jefferson]
Water balloon...i thought you were talking about really, really safe sex.
To follow up on an earlier converstion about vinyl billboard material recycled for pond liner:
The term to look up in your local Yellow Pages is "outdoor advertising". Lamar is the corporate leader in this; i have a call in to them, but nothing back yet. I called a smaller shop who actually answered the phone. The fellow sells used 14x48 vinyl tarps for $50, and sells pretty much all of them to farmers to cover their hay stacks. There is a 'gag me with a green spoon' movement to use these up in fashion accessories like wallets and backpacks.
Billboard tarps are typically made of 20 mil PVC with a polyester fiber scrim for strength. This is coincidentally the same thickness i found used for swimming pool liners as i've been cruising the net looking for info on ponds. The new kid on the block is a PE (polyethylene) material, similar to beverage containers, that can more easily be recycled and does not use or release the bad ol' chlorine in the manufacture or disposal of the material.
The advertising side of the tarp is either inked or painted. Paint seemed the most common. I read a patent application for a device to remove the paint without ruining the substrate. I would guess that if that catches on, good-bye to billboard tarp recycling. The back side is typically white, but sometimes black.
The billboard tarps have a pocket along each long edge into which the signmaker inserts a poly rod. On the back side of the billboard, ratchet straps are run between the poly rods and tightened, stretching and fastening the billboard onto the billboard framework.
A lot of it has been used for temp roofing after hurricanes and tornadoes, so the billboard tarp recyclers aren't hurting to sell it, i.e. i didn't find any of it for free. There is an online seller who offers a similar price and a variety of sizes, where my local signmaker had only the 14x48 size. The online seller swears the tarps are waterproof, but the local guy said he wouldn't recommend it for pond liner bec it would leak where it had been creased. Whom to believe?
I need one anyway for another purpose, so i'll pick one up when i next go to town and if it holds water, great, if not, back to either the stock tank or the EPDM options. If i do use it, i'll likely have to weight it down with rocks because it might shift as the water level varies with pumping. I'm thinking i might be better off with the heavier material on this account alone. The EPDM is 45 mil compared to billboard tarp at 20 mil, though the PVC has the scrim. Decisions, decisions....
BREAKING NEWS...
The Lamar fellow called me back and will give me two tarps. They normally have a recycling program, but these are lying about right now. I asked him about the pond duty and he seemed a little skeptical, too, but i'm picking them up tomorrow at 9:00 - how cool is that?!!?
Edited 6/11/2008 4:20 pm by splintergroupie
One more try... Lola managed to delete the last one. Curled up in my lap now, snoring softly. Real clingy when DW's away. And I get to do the tick inspections.
Fantastic that you got a response from Lamar. And many thanks for the edification.
Please keep us posted on your success/failure. As a liner, if you can get enough, redundancy's good. My PAHS umbrella is 3 layers of common 6 mil plastic. Kept us dry for over a decade, no sign of quitting.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I'm kind of glad i haven't been able to get out and dig the pond area bec i was thinking "circle". If these are 14x48, which seems a common size, i'll modify the shape to utilize them better. I could also make a sloping bottom more easily then to facilitate rescue. I once had a wading pool for the dogs, then found a dead frog in it one morning and felt stupid for not thinking that one through.I intend to die when the money runs out. No heirs, no debts. I've extracted promises about the dogs and cats from two-legged friends; the rest is up for grabs.
Always nicer if you don't unintentionally create lethal traps. For any of the neighborhood critters.
I intend to die when the money runs out. No heirs, no debts.
Sounds a little short-sighted to me, but what do I know? You sure you're through looking around? I like Lola, but not to sleep with. She's not even allowed in the bedroom.
Had an aunt with similar sentiment. Wonderful woman, started enjoying alcohol at age 60, but by 75 she was getting nervous about out-living her means. Keeled over one morning after writing me a note of gratitude for the bottle of whiskey I'd left as a thankyou for borrowing her LA apartment while she was out of town. Coincidence, I like to believe.
I also like to think that whatever's leftover here might do some good for somebody. Beyond the great auction when the old coot croaks. Speaking of which, take a gander at these goodies just over the mountain here: http://www.irsauctions.com/index_lots.asp?id=11202&flash=9
I know, you're not collecting.
PAHS works. Bury it.
At the rate i blow through money, i keep ending up with more in my accounts than i spend so i'm not worried about out-living normal wants and desires. I'm not through looking, or sleeping, around, but growing old in a society that considers medical misfortune a money-making opportunity doesn't appeal. These days it might be considered elder abuse, but i used to flash Ian my boobs to make him laugh, oftener when he was dying. I'm guessing most nursing homes don't offer that level of service and i'll be damned if i'll sit in a wheelchair and discuss my bowel movements.To my mind, i think you should take the credit for your Aunt's timely demise. I hope she got a stiff shot of the good stuff first. When you go to the auction, i'd like the Timesaver.
I hope she got a stiff shot of the good stuff first.
Well of course. Had to liberally sample it before she could properly thank me.
Couple of years before, another hirsute guy and I were wandering in my VW bus. Lu'd been out of town so I visited my straight-laced aunt, who told me Lu'd returned that day. Great, went there for breakfast before we left town.
Lu'd been carless for several years, so I offered to take her to the store to replenish the fridge. And laughingly offered a ride to Arizona (from LA). Cleaned up, she said she'd grab her bag.
Wasn't a handbag. She figured a ride to Arizona would be just fine. Eric drove (after recovering from his shock), Lu tried a front seat, saw me sprawled in the back, and spent the trip on the bed back there, telling me about her youth. Judged it far better than Greyhound travel.
The look on my mother's face was priceless, hadn't known my whereabouts for a month or so. Then to turn up with Lu.
Who never had a hoophouse.
That's an internet-only auction. But if you think your Tacoma can manage that log, those translucent panels, AND a Timesaver, I'll help you load. I'm still waiting for Sphere to collect the rock he reserved. Hey, maybe you could drop it off on your way home...
Hope Ian knew how fortunate he was. I once did some social work in nursing homes. DW tells me I can't stay on this mountain for the next 40 yrs, but the alternative isn't attractive.PAHS works. Bury it.
What a great Aunt and what a great story. The only good part about a burial is getting to have a headstone that says something like "Just let me get my bag...."
Well, Tom, you are MY HERO today! I went to the Lamar Advertising guy and got the two heavy tarps plus two lighter ones. If i can find some calipers tomorrow i'll check if the heavy ones are 20 mill, but they don't seem quite that heavy. Still...considering i paid $zero for them, i feel like i need pinching to believe my extraordinary good fortune. The heavy ones are 12x20; lighter ones are larger.
The other sign guy discouraged me from the pond usage, but they look fine to me. I can use the lighter weight ones, similar to woven poly lumber wraps, as a 'pad' under the heavier one i intend to hold water or i may layer the two heavy ones. I'll do some hose spraying to check for holes before i do anything, but the wind was very bad when i got home so i couldn't do it today.
I'm going to see if i can borrow the neighbor's Kubota to save some digging. Bucket-wide and 16'-long might be just dandy.
Some pics of my score today.
The lightweight tarp, similar to lumber wrap. Printed on one side, the other side a light gray. Here you see the cut-outs in the pockets that accept a rod that is tightened with the ratcheting straps that live in the house that Jack built:
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The heavyweight tarp, 12x20, maybe 30 pounds. Advertising one side;white on the other. The pic on the right side is a miniature version of the picture on the front. There are 'tape measures' on all four sidea, but i have no idea what they relate to besides themselves:
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I laid one flat to 'relax' it from being folded and to get a feel for the size of it:
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Edited 6/12/2008 10:13 pm by splintergroupie
LOL...
Aunt Lu (great, great, IIRC) was a trip. I still miss her, 35 yrs later. Now that's a eulogy. She had a steady stream of BF's, after 60, when I got to know her. Before, I was too young to notice.
Glad the sheets worked. I didn't do anything, just passed along the rave reviews. You did all the groundwork ... so far. <G>
Kubota digging? Real hard on a farm tractor front loader, particularly if it doesn't have teeth. Obviously none of my business, but I hate to see machinery abused.
The front axle pivot isn't designed for that. I've repaired small (my Mitsubishi) and large farm tractors after loader-digging. A hoe on the posterior is the solution. Or an industrial loader like Bertha (no pivot).
But that pic of your Tacoma doesn't look like it'll manage the log, the translucent panels, the Timesaver, and Bertha. Otherwise, you're welcome to make her acquaintance. She's more impressive in person. Kinda like Lu.
Hmmm... wonder if BB King ever knew Lu. Naw, Lucille was a common name at the time. http://www.worldblues.com/bbking/prairie/lucille.html
Just where would you like to be pinched?
BTW, we use scrap carpet to protect the 6 mil poly we bury. Carpet stores are real happy to avoid tipping fees. If you decide those sheets need protection.PAHS works. Bury it.
I've never driven anything like that. Did you back over a few trees getting the hang of making the tail wag the dog.
My ground is pretty much sand so i don't thing digging would be hard on it; hard to tell if it's been being walked on this long. I suppose i could go stick a shovel in the proposed area and find out. When the hydrant split a while back, i shovel-dug a 6'-deep hole, went to the Feed-n-Farm, took out the old, put in the new, and backfilled in about 4 hours. Extremely easy digging, and of course it was wet as could be. I over-filled the pet bowls with food and water before i started.
I'm more concerned about sloughing in and getting the bottom hard enough. (Speaking of pinching....) I think i can do a dry run - or a wet run, more precisely - before i invest in all the float valves and switches and time it takes to figure out what the hell i'm doing. If it looks like the storage principle will work i can pull up the tarp and till some cement into the surface of the pond bottom and tamp it flat. I just might want to wade in that thang.
On one of the sites that i read re swimming pool liners, essentially the same material, they said to absolutely not use carpet underneath the PVC bec carpet gives way under a point-load like a heel and can stretch/rip/puncture the membrane. You don't have to worry about that with your roof so cushioning makes sense. The pond-people sell a geotextile to protect the EPDM from puncturing, as i'm intending to do with the lightweight tarp adding a protective [woven] layer under the vinyl without making it gushy.
I've seen BB play, back in the 70s, with the first and last dentist with whom i ever attended a concert. First time i'd ever heard blues, too, and i didn't know what to make of it, but whooeeee the man was electric....
BB or the Dentist? Electric that is. I won't ask whether any drilling was painless or not.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
He was a good dentist, invited me to go see BB that night while he had his hands stuck in my mouth. I'm guessing i said something that sounded like "Yes", but i also guess there's a reason he had a spare ticket. Still, what a performance! Had i been with a normal fellow, we'd have gotten lucky later.
Check this story out. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=105757.1
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
As i was reading, i couldn't help hoping he hadn't found a new GF yet! What an imagination! The article was very well written, too, a match to the subject. It was a little more mysterious until i realized you plopped me down on Page Two, lol. Thanks much for that.I did a bubinga bed with rosewood posts for some clients in Spokane. One of the finials comes off and there's a copper tube under it inside the post to hold the diamonds. It took them about a week to find it after i told them the bed had a secret.I gave another guy one of the drawer bottoms to a dresser he had me build for his wife, so he could write an inscription to her. I'm glad he got it right the first time...
Rear steer took some adjustment. Been a lot of years since I spent much time on a forklift. Bertha's large enough it takes something substantial before you notice you bumped into it. Once had a bucket cutting edge that would slice through 2" trees (without you feeling them), but it was too light for serious work. Bertha's fighting weight is 23k lbs.
First rule of any tractor: don't get too close to anything you don't want to move. Bertha came here to push over 80' oaks, move anything I asked. I love her.
Clearly, it's a matter of degree how much a farm tractor can withstand without having premature problems. If your digging is similar to going into an uncompacted pile, have at it. Unfortunately, getting those front wheels off the ground to get more work out of the tractor is all too common.
Excellent point about the liner stretching with foot traffic and too much cushion. I'd be testing (to failure) those sheets to see what they can take. May not be an issue anyhow. Rocks are the big danger.
Great that you've heard Lucille howl. BB used to visit Phoenix annually, play on a revolving stage. The hall was a bowl, seats all around. Everybody was close to the stage. Never saw a bad performance.
Nobody loves me but my mother, and she could be jivin' too
PAHS works. Bury it.
<"Unfortunately, getting those front wheels off the ground to get more work out of the tractor is all too common.">
You caught me. Now I need to know exactly what part that damages, and how. Dangling front axle is not good?! I like to understand the machines I'm using.
Edited 6/13/2008 4:39 pm ET by intaglio
Dangling the front axle is not good.
The problem is always the pivot point. Not the pin, but what it bears on. I hope it's hardened bushings on yours. Mine originally had a hardened bushing on the front of the pin, mild steel for the back for the pin to bear on. And a grease fitting, that I'm assuming you use.
Mine gradually wore an oval, then the pin fell out, snapping the front drive shaft. I've repaired similar on large (standard) JDs and Cases.
The second time, I lost the piece of axle casting that the pin went through. Several machine shops turned me down ("buy a new casting") before I found a machinist who had the talent to match my imagination. Now I have a cradle around the front axle, culminating in bushed, mild steel housing for the pin.
Much stronger than when it left the factory. Avoidable, if you're conservative using your loader. Keep those wheels on the ground and you'll likely not need the machinist. Even now, I've retapped the threads for the pin bolts to get bolt purchase. For a pair of small bolts, a large amount of stress. Unlikely I can do it a second time, I'm about out of steel.
You use it. It's a tool, you have a job to do. The question is: if it's the correct tool.
You'd also find that bucket teeth will greatly ease the strain on the tractor, not that your tractor is designed for digging. It's not. Continuing to use it as you have will result in your complete understanding of the machine you're using, more than you ever wanted to know.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/13/2008 9:23 pm ET by VaTom
I'll have to inspect my axle and pin!
If we aren't supposed to dig with the loader, what purpose do teeth serve?
It really wasn't the best tool for the rose digging job. The bushes snapped off when I tried to pull them out with chains, so this was the only other tool I had on hand...besides an axe and shovel, which might work.
Teeth loosen the dirt in front of the cutting edge. If you're moving mulch or soft dirt, no need.
Only my Cats have teeth. Bertha came to me toothless, reflecting her past lives (no need). The cutting edge tapered nearly 4" from dragging one side on asphalt, the other in dirt. Then she went to a stone quarry.
I used her briefly before installing teeth, major difference- for what she does here.
Uprooting I do a lot of, have a large job soon with acanthus trees. Generally a wrapped chain works well. Kinda fun to pop 30-40' trees out of the ground. Pushing doesn't work well with them. Often leaves the rootball.
Sounds like you'd do better by hand-digging around those roses to get better purchase. I've sometimes looped chain under a small rootball. That's easy on the tractor.
Pretty sure I could point my bucket teeth down, raking the dirt down 3", and collect those roses in hurry. Your tractor might be too small to do that. A hoe would keep you out of the thorns.
One tractor to do everything well? Nice idea, let me know when you find it. But altogether, my 3 only cost $20k. As you know, real easy to spend that on 1 newer tractor. PAHS works. Bury it.
I'm going to respond to Notchman's call for structures and address this digging business...
I decided i couldn't use the billboard tarp because of the long, narrow shape unless i could seam it. I'm not sure what works, but i tried a heat gun, Goop, PL, cyanoacrylate, contact cement, PVC cement, silicone...it all peeled apart very cleanly; perhaps the all-purpose solvent is tears of frustration! There's an "Oatey X-15" cement for PVC sheet that i read about on the Web - i may take one more stab at it - and a guy near me who advertises work with plastics. I'll call the guy on Monday about seaming the parts with heat or solvent. If it reasonable, i may do that. If not...i dug the pond 9' in diameter to accept a stock tank that sits in the village. At 2' deep, that gets me 960 gals. for a cistern for the irrigation set-up.
I ran a thread in the General Discussion folder to make sure the pump i have on hand will do the job and to learn how to use it. Blessed Breaktimers came through for me when i was tearing my hair out over that, too.
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Edited 6/15/2008 12:11 am by splintergroupie
My 15-year-old helper was supposed to show up today; never did. I'm feeling like i've been drug behind Bertha about a mile and a half after all this digging. I thought it was all sand, but i was wrong; there was also some clay and gravel, but few rocks. I was digging where the backhoe that dug my foundation set up at one corner and compacted the ground apparently. I had to use the pick to break ground in part of it.
The interior of the pond was wheelbarrowed to the Blumenhugel that had been started with a pile of sod i removed from around the several dozen trees in the yard. The sandy soil covered the sod, which in turn was covered in mushroom compost, which freed up that truck to go get the stock tank if necessary.
Too pooped to plant the flowers tonight...
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Edited 6/15/2008 12:13 am by splintergroupie
I decided i couldn't use the billboard tarp because of the long, narrow shape unless i could seam it.
Billboard company might be worth a call. The people I mentioned using it were ferrocementers. Here's an archive link (2002) http://www.ferrocement.net/index.php?inc=6&offset=8675 which says:
"After reading some particulars on heat sealing it appears even light oxidation from a week sunning can necessitate a special cleaning before heat seaming. Well the ink/paint sprayed on these billboards if pretty heavy stuff. Do you abrade this stuff off with a disk or use solvents? Or just burn it right off or in with the welder? Does anyone know where there is a good manual of this whole vinyl welding process?"
I presume there's more to the conversation, clearly was antecedent. Unfortunately the site doesn't have a search function. I Scroogled "ferrocement vinyl seaming". Reasonable to email any of the respondents asking for more details.
Good luck. PAHS works. Bury it.
Thanks for the link, but i'm going to contact the plastics guy tomorrow before i throw more time at this in the spirit of accidental discovery. It's a nusiness that makes tarps and covers for haystacks, boats, etc. so i'm guessing they CAN, just whether they WILL and for how much are the unknowns. I've decided to use the tarp to cover my lumber stash instead. The pond will be a poly tank. I did some reading on FC and lusted to build one of those jars, but not right now. Between my accident in Maech and the weeks lost to rain, i'm far behind my planned progress for this summer, so i had to make a decision to spend money instead of time on this one. I'm hoping the stock tank i saw in the little town is still there tomorrow...
I checked all the places today: plastics, tent and awning, tarps, and even called the billboard company back for information on how the pockets in the billboard tarp were made. No one knows diddly, but one guy will sew the two tarps together for $35...approximately what the guy with the larger tarp would have sold it for. Argh. No free lunch apparently.....but they'll be great over my woodpile and lawntractor.
I think i'll contact some of the billboard/advertising companies from the Net and see if they can tell me what process they use to seal the flap to make the pockets. One last shot...
I should probably explain these roses I have. They form a large 8-10' (diameter & height) bush/tree. Very large thorns, wonderful flowers and rosehips. But I don't always need a million of them. The times I've gotten a chain to stay around their bottoms, the tractor couldn't pull them out. Or the tops would break off. Local farmer told me he had some luck chainsawing them off in late summer drought. Usually after they have gotten full sized, they eventually die (maybe 10 years?). Lots of babies coming up all over the fields, haying and mowing doesn't stop them. A few people have commented on them....a particularly large thorny strain of the wild rose.
My attempts with a shovel seemed rather insignificant.
Must be the soil here. It was amazing to watch the skidder being outwitted by hawthornes that refused to budge. One it hauled away must have been 50' in diameter/tall.
I took care of most of the large roses some years ago, now it's mostly smaller ones.....which quickly turn into larger ones when one's back is turned.
My attempts with a shovel seemed rather insignificant.
Major understatement there. Thanks for the explanation. You're correct, I had no idea. Completely outside my experience.
If mowing doesn't stop them from spreading? Wow. That's the only bamboo control I know of.
One truism: bigger jobs benefit from bigger tractors. My vote now is for a trackhoe (excavator). Or a For Sale sign. That always works.
You saw Bertha's tires. Heavy and expensive. No way do I mess with large thorns unless the landowner's buying. Rock treads are available, much tougher, and 3x the money.
Forgot to mention your unbelievable lack of a photo. You've got godzilla there and don't share?
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/15/2008 12:10 pm ET by VaTom
She'd better put something in for scale. I've seen those roses of hers; the hips are the size of crab-apples with canes and thorns to match!
Hope this gives an idea. My scale models weren't cooperating, so used the chair (it's not a kid's chair). The younger bush is about 8' from the fence. The other old bush is really two bushes side by side. I was surprised to see last year's hips still on...usually they get eaten in winter by birds & squirrels.
Everything considered, I think Deer John did a good job with them. But that mini-excavator was even neater when it grabbed a couple up that were in the way.
They are probably quite valuable for their rose oil & hips. Not to mention bird housing......I've no intention of wiping them out, but wonder about their intentions sometimes!
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Edited 6/16/2008 2:25 am ET by intaglio
Edited 6/16/2008 2:29 am ET by intaglio
Very interesting, thanks. When I see something similar in a field here it's usually where brush has been piled (cemetaries are usually somewhat maintained). Then things take root. Like Splintie's doing.
Cleared a couple acres for a woman near here, after much discussion. I told her it wasn't a good idea, she was complaining about the pines that had all died (pine beetle), leaving her with rotting pick-up-sticks. Ugly then, would have completely taken care of themselves in 3-4 years. (I'm a big fan of no-maintenance.)
No. Pile it all up, along with all the young hardwoods. Made two piles, 30'x100'x20' tall. Fortunately she never tried to burn them. Now she has 2 (new) hills, did decide to pay someone to bushhog around them occasionally. The kudzu was not eradicated, just as I predicted.
Surprised me when she was distraught over some two-dimensional turtles. I mentioned that I'd killed a whole lot more critters, what had she expected? Turns out she went out just before my arrival and "told" everyone that they had to find new homes. Some weren't listening.
Nice to provide critter habitat. When I got my state forester timber survey we discussed the issue. He was delighted I was interested. Many timber owners only want maximum production. I don't see any problem with a few standing dead trees. We've got extremely diverse neighbors here. I prefer selling boards over logs anyway, and don't want a huge quantity at one time.
Mountain laurel's the only thing here remotely similar to your roses. Lovely flowers, no thorns, not particularly difficult to traverse. A turkey hang-out. Much stronger than my Mitsubishi tractor, easy work for Bertha. I left them close to the new driveway to the other peak, hope the next owner appreciates it.
Never fails to amaze me how some folks buy a piece of hayfield and start planting a forest. Others buy woodland and clear acres, "improving the view". We bought "unimproved" land, vast majority of it remains that way.PAHS works. Bury it.
The best part of those roses (except the hips):
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The perfume is heavenly...making some rose infused oil from them now. When I moved here, the roses had taken over the pasture quite a bit, and more so each year. So thinning out a dozen or so didn't make much difference in the look of the land. Birds are still happy....have a catbird that nests in that huge one by the garden, and sings like a mocker(mockingbird) for me. Days are so long up here now, they sing all night with a full moon.
I always start hilling my potatoes as soon as they pop up some leaves...it's ok to bury the leaves a little each time. Probably end up with 10" hills after hilling them 3 or 4 times (just part of cultivating). Might be smarter to plant in a trench, to save moisture...but this has worked for years. The height of the hill is only limited by how close together rows are. One year I threw a bunch of leftover sprouted babies in a big square, covered them with hay or straw...and they produced great! But I trust the hilling with dirt method most. Of course that makes it hard to mulch them...but by the last time I can cultivate/hill them with a hoe, they are so big, they shade the soil...and by then I throw large weeds alongside for mulch. Potatoes produce on the length of their stems, upwards, whereas sweet potatoes produce dangling down from their crowns....so one needs to be hilled, the other needs to planted on a hill. (can't believe one of my favorite seed catalogs had it wrong about sweet taters). Can't remember where I learned it...maybe from old time farmers when I was a kid.
You could throw some straw or hay around them, to make them produce along their stems...or some dirt. The shade might make the crop smaller....?
Edited 6/18/2008 7:22 pm ET by intaglio
My Austrian copper rose is blooming today, too! The Irish had a technique of planting potatoes that suited their climate: they lay the potato on the flat ground and pulled dirt from between the rows onto the tubers. The English derisively referred to them as "lazy beds" as they considered the Irish indolent for not plowing, but it served to make the potatoes sit up relatively higher so their roots could breathe. I've never grown sweet potatoes, but i wonder if there may be a similar principle, that a different method works better in a different climate?
Did you survive the day after the post pounder? They can really mess up your upper back sometimes. Happens I'm using one now also.....just did 3 posts last night before dark, then another 4 today before I ran out of posts for this little horse pasture remodel project.
A copper rose? Picture?
I'm still trying to figure out why you have troubles with potatoes. Might be the clay in the soil....either affecting the soil 'crumb', or the nutrients. In that soil, sweet potatoes might be hopeless......but they grow them in the red clays of the South, don't they? They do need a long season..maybe in the hoophouse?
I noticed today the scarlet runners have more sets of leaves, and I see ground moving where the cannellinis are. Come October, I'll have a willow tipi full of beans!
Copper rose. I just picked one (G)
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Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
The color is perfect! But it's not living, breathing, perfuming. Altho, it won't fade.......
Posts are pounded, fence is up, have a gate still to make. I have to really start drying cabbage leaves fast or they are going to take over the HH. Maybe a clothesline for them....More potatoes are poking up, but many are still MIA. I think i did all the right things this year, but i put them in right before it rained torrents. I think if they'd been put in earlier they'd have been fine, as the beans would have if they'd germinated before the lousy weather; i might have had to cover them, but they'd have made it. I planted more Kentucky Blues in their place, though i have 30' of them indoors. Perhaps the strawbs would have survived if i'd had the crowns higher out of the mud, though they were coming along well before that very cold rain. You should see the poor morning glories...RIP.Good news: hollyhocks look pretty happy, and all the berries i transplanted liked the rainy time to transition and are setting new leaves after the ones they dropped. My $2 roses are really coming along, shielded in pots on the east side of the HH, an ideal staging area i've discovered for potted plants i'm 'saving' for a special location.I went to my neighbor's yard sale today and found a bowling ball and a plant stand, the sarcastician's version of a gazing ball. It's pearly red. The other one over there was black and boring, but if i painted it rasta colors...
Potatoes....always good to let them green up with shoots before planting. And a farming wife just told me today, she lets them dry out some after cutting them in pieces. But allowed they will rot in cold rainy soil. Don't think mine ever have...but I often plant tiny tubers whole. After all, they survive the winter that way, and come up each Spring where they don't belong!
Wow, your roses are more a vibrant orange. Remind me of my wild roses....do them have an odor?
Planted turnips last year, they were great....Milan and Purple Top. A couple overwintered and are now making seed. Tossed in some rutabaga seed this year, since it's been ages since I planted them (the seed was saved years ago, will it come up?). Last year I grew kohlrabi, they were nice for a change. So many things to grow!
These Austrian coppers are so vibrant, but the color is short-lived, like awild rose. Slight rosy scent, like a wild rose. This one's sending up a yellow-rose branch this year...nice contrast. Gotta get that bindweed out of there...a gift from the place from which i got it.I'm giving the potatoes another week to get with the program. Where nothing comes up, i'll plant turnip or something. I'm restocking the strawberry bed today. Peas that came up are also spotty...some rot there as well. Peas! There're supposed to dig cold weather!HH is becoming a little frightening, how fast things are growing. I notice stalks are weaker, though. I made a practice of wiggling the tomatoes to reinforce them, but i forgot about the bush beans so i'll make a habit of ruffling their feathers from now on, too. Stuff like basil is sturdy because i pick it, i guess. Learning more about this.Another interesting aspect of the HH: the ground it sits on is at a slight slope, maybe 5%. The air comes in at the bottom and exits the top. It's noticeably hotter outside the HH screen door at the top end that at the bottom; apparently there's a convection current in there. Anyway....good to know if anyone else is intersted in siting one, to not be afraid to have it unlevel.
Peas: I always had fantastic luck with peas, but the last few years they have not jumped out of the ground so well, and seem a little more leggy. Thought it was my saved seed, so bought seed...but found out my seed had a higher germination rate than the new seed (from a good company, too). Perhaps it's just our weather lately? Or some mineral they have used up, and need, like calcium? Put some gypsum on them this year, and now they are looking good. But if they don't get 7' tall like they used to, I'll still blame my soil.
Kentucky Blues? Is that a new variety of the old Kentucky Wonder? Wonderful bean, ....you can't really have too many, altho 30' is alot!
I gave my little West Indian gherkins some lilac branches to climb on today. Everything's happy with this 'moist' (40% humidity) air and warm weather. Including "weeds"....but I've discovered that pigweed is far superior when steamed to any of our tame greens.
Have this little book, Carrots Love Tomatoes, which has lots of useful information about weeds and plants, when using them in making compost. Perhaps we don't need to import minerals from elsewhere, when the weeds bring them up for us.
No doubt the Kentucky Blues are related to KY Wonder. These are supposed to get quite tall, but i have to harvest/dry cabbage leaves today so the beans aren't mulched by the huge leaves. The cabbages in the pics are at least 24" tip-to-tip.
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Generic shot of the HH today. I have to do something about the squash. Even with the doors open, they aren't being pollinated so i'm going to have to take it upon myself, it seems.
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The stuff in the foreground, middle bed, right side is celery. growning like mad. I've never been able to grow celery before.
I got some more Yukon Gold to replace my bare holes. I may put a HH-kinda cover on that in September to extend my season if they are just on the verge of producing.
My little gherkins are OK, but they are delicate things, aren't they?
Edited 6/22/2008 5:44 pm by splintergroupie
And monster cabbages! The hoophouse looks awfully productive. Celery is great! I wanted to do it this year, but have never had great luck with it either. Bet it likes raised beds. In FL it liked mucklands......remember driving across celery fields on the way to town, when I was a kid (Duda & Sons celery).
Spent the day fencing instead of gardening.....I hate barbwire! Always vow to do board fences, but I've just got too much fence to use boards. Woulda gone faster if I'd not changed my mind and pulled out posts I just put in yesterday! Some holes were dry 2' down...this is pushing the season for fencing here.
Yea, those gherkins are such delicate plants. I wonder if they were more vigorous in FL? Once they start climbing around, I'll expect them to be hanging with little gherkins.
I hate barbed wire, too. Why not field fencing (mesh type)?
Field fencing? No way, not for horse fences where snowberries can grow up in it. It's more work, too, and more fence than they need. I've still got some ancient field fence along a few lines that needs to be pulled out....when it's in the dirt, they often stick their feet in it, and end up with cuts when they pull back. I went to barbless wire on some lines....if real tight, it works, but some horses don't respect it, and lean over it. (And I caught one of my little mares walking down the new line, rubbing her shoulders.) So I've gone back to a top strand of barbwire, barbless wire for lower strands. That way, when a silly horse (like mine last year) rolls into a fence, they won't be as likely to get cut. If I turn the hotwire on enough, they get more respectful of fences in general...I've been using a fake hot wire to separate this pasture, but don't trust that when I'm not here to oversee them.
My neighbors put up field fence with a top barbed wire between us...works well and keeps my mutts on my side, horses on theirs, no problems. I'll probably use something like that when i do the perimeter fence, with poles at top and midway. I've seen too many wrecks with barbed to use it. What's the deal with snowberries? Poisonous??I'm thinking i'll use full-round poles bec i can't decided which way to face the half-rounds. What do you recommend for a fastener to the wooden post? Spike? Screw?
Field fence in your situation would be fine...both sides are being watched, and mowed. But with miles of fence, it's bad enough the way the barbwire fences get buried in snowberries. Snowberries here get tall! Then they hide the wires, the horse has to know there are wires hidden in the brush they like to walk thru to scratch their bellies. That time in winter when my little mare didn't see the wire, walked right into the fence, flipped over it, and got hung up by a front leg. Panic time (for me, she laid still, I finally got her loose)...it could have been much much worse. Fences and horses...I guess if you have both long enough, things happen. I've heard of horses hurting themselves on even board fences.
I'm confused..half posts?
Attachments, for wire??..fencing staples. For posts to poles...spikes. (just noticed some braces I did 13 years ago, the untreated brace poles were rotted, but the spikes were still strong (I used glavanized).) Another thing about field fence is the amount of work required to stretch it, compared to stretching strands of wire. But I did my garden fence with field fence, used the tractor to stretch it. Hasbeen's fence is nice, now. And a windbreak, something I'm thinking I need.
If I did the garden fence again, with field fence, I'd use heavier brace posts, make them same size as corner posts. It just doesn't pay to use what you think you can make work...better to beef it up (oops, where did that phrase come from?!)
Half-poles....they are split down the middle so the flat side goes against the post. Lots of folks here use them; they look more gentleman-farmerish than real-farmerish, is my take on it. I don't recall there's much of a price difference, either. Being lighter to handle is probably a plus for some.Snowberries take after the roses, eh? The ones in our woods are about 2'-3' tall - you couldn't hide a fence in there.I've gotta find a pneumatic tool to staple wire on...i hate that part.
"I've gotta find a pneumatic tool to staple wire on...i hate that part."
Do ya have fencing pliers? I think that helps a lot.
Hold the staples with the pliers and whack 'em with a hammer. Saves yer fingers.
There's a handsome redneck you're acquainted with that might just set you up with a pair.
(-:
What do you get when you cross a zebra with an ape man for all eternity?
Tarzan Stripes Forever.
No, i don't have fencing pliers...quite an omission in my tool chest, i admit. I've just had a lot of experience holding the staple to get it started, then having it fall over when i hauled off to whack it in earnest.
See you at Fest for the tutorial? <G>
"I've just had a lot of experience holding the staple to get it started, then having it fall over when i hauled off to whack it in earnest."
Which is the reason for the fencing pliers. Keeps 'em straight for a wack or two.
No problem on the tutorial...
(-:
Doud will be pleased we've come to fence. <G>
Was going to ask what they're chargin' for half a post/pole these days!
Since they all split, and dry out with age, I'd stick with the whole thing....bet those half poles are real easy for a horse to break, when they rub their tail on them.
Old fashioned hammers work great for staples, it's really easy...and you've already got the muscles in shape. A fencing tool is indispensible.
I used staples on my chain link fence fabric that was put on wood posts. They were pretty small staples, so maybe larger ones would give more to hang on to. I was using needle nose pliers to hold onto the staples - cumbersome when one has all the pneumatic nailers/staplers for everything else.
Floyd, the blind antiquity (antikwitty?), caught a pocket gopher last year. He was darned pleased with himself.
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Edited 6/24/2008 1:30 pm by splintergroupie
I was thinking about the fencing tool and staples today as I finished up my fencing.......I've just always grabbed the staple with my fingers. Leather gloves are awful, so had to take those off to grab the staple, or have on an old pair with holes on the fingers, (perfect). But now I use the blue rubber Atlas brand, they work great for fencing and let me grab staples easily. Don't think I could get the hang of a separate action, of holding a staple with the tool....especially as tool is often pulling the wire tight as I staple it (need two tools, then). Bad enough with tool, hammer, staples, wire...all has to be right there ready to grab in a hurry. Kinda like juggling.
Floyd, the blind antiquity (antikwitty?), caught a pocket gopher last year. He was darned pleased with himself.
Blind leading the blind... or the blind catching the blind?
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I'm in the dark about that!
I C
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
Fences and horses...I guess if you have both long enough, things happen. I've heard of horses hurting themselves on even board fences.
Risking toes... I'd never heard so much claptrap as when I moved to Va. Had a Realtor's license for a few years. The "facts" I heard about horses were amazing. Everybody knew what a "horse property" was.
I'm slow, took me awhile to catch on. Absolutely can't use barbed wire, only boards. Must be flat land, horses can't do mountains/gulleys. Blather, blather, blather...
One neighbor came to introduce himself, on horseback. Extremely proud of himself that he was able to ride up here: "Not many could." This is Virginia, mountains really aren't much of a challenge. Arizona cowboys would have laughed themselves silly.
One of whom loaned us a mare for the summer at the 8,000 ft elev. cabin. She hopped the barbed wire to get to her boyfriend. Got chewed up a bit, healed nicely. Didn't bother her enough to avoid a repeat. A hobble worked.
Racehorse owners here have a different fear, hurting the handler. Very high-spirited animals. You approach barns driving very slowly. Miles of laboriously white painted fences. Would you believe a job, hesitate to call it a profession, is using a pitchfork to retreive horse apples from stalls? What a way to spend ones days...
But makes excellent compost for hoophouse growing. PAHS works. Bury it.
And I thought race horse breeders wanted hills for their horses to develop muscles! Out here folks do. And riding out here is like The Man From Snowy River. Little Arabs are more like mountain goats than some breeds.
Friends have a horse who routinely jumps the barbwire fences, to join them, or other horses in other pastures. He's an expert.
Better get back to that fencing.......
After having horses for several years, I'll never have barbed wire on the place again. You can buy double-twisted wire without the barbs.I use it for fencing and for the top wire on my pole beans.
The sunset tonight:
Those blue Bitterroots, with snow still on....picture postcard! Speaking of bitterroots, they are blooming here! Over on the cliffs west of me. Never seen some many. Evidently they thought our cold Spring was Montana.
Ask and ye shall receive.(I'm attaching larger files in case anyone needs new desktop wallpaper.)
Those roses are lovely. If invasive.
So with 24" tall potato plants, I'm overdue for hilling? Weather looks fine tomorrow. I'll pick the arugula/cilantro first. Or move it, have to look around for a spot.
Appears you're right about saving moisture with potatoes in a trench. Today they looked thirsty, with everybody else looking fine. Smaller potatoes are OK, so long as they're numerous. They didn't get the sunniest spot.
Figured I'd try sweet potatoes next year. Thanks for the tip.
Mulch here is weeds. Can't see importing straw. Wood chips didn't seem to work so well, better to compost them.
Birds "singing" all night... better you than me. We once were tormented by a whipporwill. Here, we don't hear much of anything from outside. Which we prefer. Going outside to visit is sufficient.PAHS works. Bury it.
If you like arugula, you might like this variety of it: Arugula Sylvetta (believe it's the same as Rustica)
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Much hotter flavor, self seeds like crazy, and is a perennial. Pretty enough to use as an accent plant.
You have to go outside and listen carefully to hear the catbird singing at night. Voice like a mockingbird, but much more restrained, doesn't go crazy. Mockers in FL used to get crazy, eating certain berries.
Just had a crazy idea....you could put something around your potatoes, to hold some soil that they could make tubers in. Leave one as a control, to see what happens.
I'm trying sweet potatoes this year, in this climate.
Edited 6/19/2008 3:46 am ET by intaglio
Arugula Sylvetta (believe it's the same as Rustica)
Thank you. Now the seed search is on, unless yours are bolting... We're about to have thousands of whatever variety our arugula is. Cilantro close behind. Which is one reason I was so tickled to see the small plants under the potatoes.
Which I think I'll place a tire board just downhill from, allowing me to pile dirt over the potatoes.
Iolanda Del Basso was our inspiration. She and Dario were more Italian than American. He was a wine steward, she once cooked for a French Embassy. Arugula grew like a weed behind their modest Denver house, a meeting-place for a sizeable Italian community. Bocce in the backyard of course. Grappa and espresso inside.
Arugula was a part of every dinner, partly for economic reasons. Our first exposure.
Dario did most of the accordian tuning in the western US. Introduced us to a guy who taught classical accordian at university. Not an oxymoron. When I went into the classical-only record store and asked for accordian, they looked skeptical, said there wasn't going to be much of a selection. Exactly one, by Bob Levine, who was delighted to autograph it when he came over for dinner.
Iolanda and Dario with Picciolo and Ciociola (their two grouchy cats) retired to Castelfidardo (his hometown) where there's a wonderful accordian museum. We got in one memorable visit before they died. Not exactly a tourist hot-spot, the museum curator hadn't seen visitors that week. Was delighted to go around with us, demonstrating. http://www.accordions.com/museum/ , crank up the volume if you like Blue Danube.
Didn't see any hoop houses there. The greengrocer would come around, on schedule, in his small van. Shouting up to the housewives on the apartment balconies, they'd lower baskets with money, which he'd then fill with produce. Fish guy did the same. Quite a show.PAHS works. Bury it.
Nothing like a museum tour with music! Love that waltz...think I know it by heart...so easy. Sounds like you visited a charming Italian village.
Homegrown arugula is best. I was so disappointed once ordering an 'arugula salad' in a fancy Jackson restaurant....no flavor.
I'll have to see if I can catch some seeds, they are starting to flower. Since they take care of reseeding themselves, I usually keep sickling off the flowers (which are yellow, not white). I originally found my seed from a Seed Saver member. Baby plants pop up all over the garden, not just where they were. I leave lots, but they had about taken over the whole greenhouse last year, so had to dig out & compost lots. (they form a large strong root, truly a 'wild' plant).
My cilantro still hasn't come up......
Cilantro lags arugula here by a few weeks. Still hasn't set seeds, while the arugula of the same generation is broadcasting.
Yellow flowers? I've never been serious enough to bother seed-saver people. But if you do catch a few seeds, I'll make sure they get into a good spot. Will it cross with what's here? Our variety isn't what we remember from Denver, though it looks the same. I assumed climate/soil difference. More character would be lovely.
Yup, we visited a bunch of charming Italian villages, though most don't have museums. That trip was 5 weeks of mooching in Italy, then north. From folks we'd fed in Denver. We carefully followed Mr. Franklin's observation about visitors and fish.
Does anybody else have a problem with hostas running amuck? I salvaged a few from a driveway job. They're clearly very happy here, but I don't want them crowding out everybody else. Maybe I shouldn't let them seed. Probably 20 I need to dig out of the periwinkle patch if I want to keep it.PAHS works. Bury it.
I found seeds of those wild Italian arugula, that I saved in '02. Am sure they'd come up...my '98 rutabaga seeds are coming up. So send me your address....I'm also tempted to try sending a few baby plants, wrapped in moist paper towels and plastic....be lots faster on your end.
I think they may be unrelated to the other arugula, don't think they can cross...at least so far see no evidence of it. Seed catalogs sometimes list Arugula Rustica....I'm not sure if this is the same...it was listed as Italian Roquette, Sylvetta. (roquette=arugula)
Seems to me hostas are very vigorous, and tend to cast lots of shade.
Lovely, thank you. I did.
Looking for good potato hilling dirt, I started yet another roof compost pile with removed "weeds". Just off the patio, which had dirt slightly too high anyway. The vagabond hostas are headed there.
They do indeed shade, would eliminate the periwinkle that we really enjoy. I heard so many stories here about how difficult hostas were to establish... Apparently not, as I do no more than throw some compost on the area every spring. Real happy in the shade of the large trees.
Kinda fun to stand on the edge of the roof and broadcast compost over the periwinkle patch and the hosta patch. Surprised me that the hostas would spread uphill.
Iolanda's arugula seeds didn't survive our delays and rental houses. Or maybe my ineptitude. Getting the hang of it now.PAHS works. Bury it.
Every place I had hostas, I had huge slug problems, not there I take it?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Slug?
Sounds like something you stick in a shotgun during deer season in flatlands. Outside my experience.
PAHS works. Bury it.
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
LOL... oh.
Kinda cute, what's 'is name? Don't remember seeing anything like that here, but it'd be a real long hike up the driveway.
Which was my question about tomato hornworms (how'd they get up here?) until somebody pointed out that they also fly. Last year I found 2. Pretty sure there're some happy birds here.PAHS works. Bury it.
They leave slime trails that you can slip in when they get big, and they LOVE Hostas..beware.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
OK, I'll look around tomorrow. We've got maybe 50 hostas now.
Must be a larger critter than I thought if you can slip in the slime trail. They eat hostas or just enjoy the shade?
Lola likes it under there. Don't imagine she'd find slugs interesting. Pretty startling when she explodes out in a mock-attack.PAHS works. Bury it.
Both. I had em in SE Pa 8" long. Kill em with salt shook on them, they dessicate. Do NOT do the saucer of beer method, stinks to high holy heaven.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
So far i haven't had any slugs on my greens or cole crops that are mulched with newspaper and the lower leaves removed. Last year i had quite a few slugs, but they didn't get more than about an inch long.
8"? Probably would have noticed one of them. I vaguely remember seeing 1 or 2 maybe 3/4" long here once.
Chiggers are a bigger irritant presently. Seem to have found a couple yesterday somewhere.PAHS works. Bury it.
Same here, found a pair of chigroes on my ankle, itchy bastids that they are.
few drops of super glue helps with the suffocation and itch relief.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I'll see if there's any here. Never found much relief with nail polish.
In the meantime, DW awakened and explained why I couldn't find the pic I was looking for. Wrong subject. Anyhow, here's a hosta slug, but not sluggish at that moment:PAHS works. Bury it.
The surprise attacks can be startling. Our two are always just outta sight, but can launch and grab a knee from behind with perfect stealth LOL
Almost had a close one with the big guy, his belly abcess was the size of lemon, finally got it lanced and he's doing much better. It was getting hard and I was afraid it wouldn't drain if it got necrotic.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Dino was only here 7 months. An SPCA kid, who clearly spent way too long there. Was finally turning into a mountain kitty when he met up with a copperhead. Swollen paw that went down nicely.
Unfortunately we got repeated bad advice from vets. Copperhead venom's a hematoxin. Doesn't go away, destroyed his red blood cells over time. He got sluggish just when the weather got hot. I thought that was the reason, didn't like hot weather. Last trip down to my shop, I had to carry him back up.
He never saw a hoop house. PAHS works. Bury it.
Damm that sux. We have a slew here, I got nailed about 2 yrs ago, but it hit bone and didn't hang on.
I still have no clue why the dog died last month, it was fairly sudden and gut wrenching, didn't have the scratch for a post mortem exam..wish now that I did.
At least the pups are a good distraction from that, they are a handful presently, had all 4 on the bed last last night during the storms..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Yeah, I remember your pictures of Eddie and the pond.
Always figured anybody with a real dog oughta have some water around. Good that Splintie provided. I favored a pond large enough that I couldn't throw the tennis ball all the way across. Good exercise for everybody.PAHS works. Bury it.
I've an old cast iron scraper bucket here, need to have a hoe or something hooked to clean out that mess of a pond, the retaining bank is leaking too, so it needs major help.
Completely dried up ( as did MANY here) last summer, even the spring disappeared for a spell. Not to good of a sign there.
The pups found the pond entertaining, tried thier darndest to drink it dry..LOL Green puppy poo for days.
Ack..off to the shop, gotta work today..getting a slow start. I have a HUGE table sitting here that was supposed to be picked up 2 weeks ago, gonna charge storage prettty soon, it's seriously in my way and the guy is AWOL. I actually wouldn't mind keeping it for me tho' if it falls that way..old hog butcher table 2" oak top with 4x6 tapered legs.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Crane dragline or major trackhoe. Smaller machines get in trouble unless it's really dry. A subdivision I did a lot of tractor work for had a nice 2 ac pond that was silting up.
Asked about my trackloader. I said, sure, when it dried completely. Which never happened. So they got a guy with a nice Case hoe. Who promptly got severely stuck. Working by the hour, took 12 hrs to get out. Accomplished nothing. Next was a trackloader, same deal.
They called again, asking advice about the lawsuits. By the hour? Pay the bill. After that fiasco they listened better. You really don't want to tell the operator what to do, only what you need done.
I'm awaiting the remainder of a dining set here. Stripped already. I was extremely pleasantly surprised at how gracefully it was stripped. I'm asked to spray it to match some cabinets. Fortunately in no hurry, too many bugs this time of year for no spray booth. Same guy wants me to bring my HVLP rig over to make his multi-colored backhoe one color.
That's me, furniture and heavy machinery. So today I'm operating a shovel. Potatoes are almost all hilled. Not easy finding dirt on this mountain. Better be good potatoes.
Speaking of which, I'm sure you've seen these, but maybe not everybody has. I forget who was responsible...PAHS works. Bury it.
Sphere,To fix the leak in your retaining wall just sprinkle some portland in the pond when it's full. Try to guess where the leak is and hit it there. May take a few applications. Does not hurt the critters.KK
Well ain't that easy! I was thinking of a liner or bentonite clay..but hell, portland it is. I like that. I know where it's leaking , it goes right under the neighbor's tractor path and is missing the culvert from the overflow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
The dogs like drinkng out of the pond, but they're skitterish about getting too close. One's got some Chesapeake in him and she has some Lab, but they're sticking to their sheepherding genes when it comes to water they can't step over. I haven't pumped it yet - have to go buy a foot valve first - so i've been interested in how long before it gets warm and scummy. As of today, a week later, it still is perfectly clear and not that warm so my pond-scum worries are gone.
Sounds like you oughta jump in and splash around with them. Maybe they're waiting for an invitation. Or an example. Uh, you don't have any ice floating in there do you?
Don't know much about small ponds, but large ones here do immensely better with aeration. The sole small one I dug (EPDM lined) isn't. Frogs and fish keep it pretty good. Not clear, but not scummy. We get a lot of wind-borne junk.PAHS works. Bury it.
This one has collected its share of insects so i need to get one of those strainers on a handle or make one. I could probably immerse myself at the temp it's at now, but i think when it's filled/pumped on a daily basis that it'll be unpleasantly cold for much of that. We had 94* a couple days ago, though, and i was fencing. I'd stop occasionally and plunge my arms in it...very refreshing. I also didn't count on not having to think about filling a water bowl for the furkids all summer...nice benny.
Weekly Sunday AM freedom romp for the kids today..they went right for the pond like a bee-line..LOL Came back as slimy as could be.
Meanwhile I was adding a "pooch porch" to the Puppy palace..they had an old nasty rug in the dirt that they LOVED, but it was getting gross..so now a raised porch attached to the palace is thier new diggs. Less mud, less smell.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
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Gimme a minute..I'm eating.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Here they are , couldn't get all at once...GROWING!
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And the famous FLAN who always looks so worried..he cracks me up.
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They are gonna get fixed soon, just started to hump each other ONCE..and like I said, teeth are coming and going..they hurt when ya step on one.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Pretty soon you'll have a swing set for those guys, have to think about saving for collij.
Seeing them in pics ever week or so is like watching my garden. All of a sudden i see a change that's been on-going and think "YIKES! How'd they get that big that fast!??!"
When Antney goes away next week it will help on the chaos..he is just such a big lug and who ever you call Malo, Flan, or Ivory ( forget calling Carly, she is an idjit) Antney comes lumbering up and either knocks ya clean off your feet or slobbers on ya. Gonna miss him.
In keeping with the thread tho' I'll have to get the garden picts. Potatos are flowering like a bouquet, and some peppers are flowering ( the cheaters I bought). Been gorging ourselves on berries..even the wild blackberries are better than ever.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I fried spinach, basil, chives and mushed it around some pasta for lunch with some sun-dried maters in oil. <swoon>
Who needs men?
"who needs men"?
Not I.
I had rice and garlic , onions, pineapple, snow pea pods and pork tenderloin.
Cept for the Pork, you'd never go back to women..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I pulled this out of the HH tonight. Fistful of Radish. They are enormous and mild...best i've ever eaten.
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Edited 6/23/2008 2:32 am by splintergroupie
Heavens! that looks like the trick photo of the huge spud in a truckbed. Monster radishes are invading!
And that took about three weeks to grow...scary in there, i tell ya!
I used the last of my store-bought lettuce. I'll have my own salads from here to fall.
I replaced my rotten spuds today. I'm wondering from the way the rotten ones looked if they'd been invaded by worms....eeuw.
Lovely critter! (the slug photo) Out here we are blessed with small ones that hide in lettuce leaves.
Always hard to find enough green stuff for compost and mulch. Do you have either of these two plants: lovage or valerian? Both make a huge amount of green material. I'm going to take a sickle to the lovage. Makes far more than I can ever use as an herb. And the valerian is good for bringing phosphorus into the soil. It tries to take over the garden, but I figure the little plants are doing good, and pull them for mulch. Let too many become huge last year, so this year dug out lots, and threw them in that hugelkultur. (I just re-discovered that little book I mentioned in the post to Splintie: Carrots Love Tomatoes; it tells all about the minerals and good things different weeds and herbs bring to the soil.)
I'm not sure if hosta is what I have by my house, but whatever it is, it covers the ground real well....a variegated light green and white.
Thought Lola would like to see the grubline-riding tomcat who is adopting me. He found the catnip today.
Y'all are making me feel inadequate, not that we don't eat pretty well. My dinky production, that I put minimal effort into. Today, transporting dirt 1/2 mile up the driveway struck me as: those better be really good potatoes... The Rodale book didn't have any detail about this hilling stuff. If I repeat next year, I'll likely apply hasbeen's plan: backhoe the trench. That'll give me dirt.
I located the best looking dirt, with worms, shoveled it into my loader bucket (no digging with the small tractor!) then shoveled it into buckets for the potatoes. Several times. That Mexican guy and I really aren't all that great friends.
Then something got me in the shin, iced it to reduce the swelling. Time to float some cherries.
Wonderful photos, thanks.
"Carrots Love Tomatoes"... just where are the weeds and herbs getting the minerals to "bring to the soil"? I've got a book, "Other Homes and Garbage", that talks about what various compost materials contribute. But I never knew enough of the need to try to design my compost. "Carrots" sounds interesting.
Really not short of green. I grow lots of weeds in the areas I ignore. Only lately been expanding (potatoes, raspberries, more bulbs), reducing the weed production. My weed selection to date has been to favor the short ones, eliminate the ones that get 5-6' tall. Then it's a matter of getting them uprooted before they go to seed, and layer with manure. Probably ought to learn what they are.
In the meantime, all those growing weeds turned my decomposed stone "dirt" into a growing medium. Not great, but a few servings of compost and ...
Wasn't long ago I thought a cu yd of finished compost was excellent production, now I can use several. Turns out everybody here loves the stuff.
Speaking of loving... your feline buddy sure looks happy/secure. We've found that past cats got more excited about marigolds than catnip. Back when we were trying to deter pests with plants. It's clear now that all we really needed was better dirt/stronger plants.
When Lola wakes up I'll ask if she'd like a play date. PAHS works. Bury it.
<"..just where are the weeds and herbs getting the minerals to "bring to the soil"? ">
Weeds and herbs, etc, bring minerals up from deep in the subsoil, with their roots. The length of their roots is amazing (seems someone posted something about the length of alfalfa roots on this thread, way way back..) And I'm guessing that different plants specialize in different minerals. For instance, we know horsetail is rich in silica, comfrey in calcium,....so adding those plants to the compost would be adding those minerals, plus the rich humus as they break down. So it seems you're on the right track using weeds.
I think shade has alot to do with smaller crops...altho there are times when a little shade in a typical sunny garden is welcome to plants. Here it is just those few hot days in July/August, and perhaps I could use water instead of shade to give them some relief.
Potatoes are always worth the effort...unless you have gophers, and forget to harvest before they do! Not nice to dig the whole row(s), and find nothing.
Odd Rodale's book says nothing about hilling potatoes. Guess I was lucky to grow up in a farming/gardening family. (uh, my grandfather was a potato farmer...) Sometimes we just take things for granted. But he probably wouldn't have left pigweed in the rows, like I do (certain weeds help potatoes). Pigweed seems to always show up where potatoes are.
When I decide to have a cleaner garden/less weeds, I have to remember to leave a few to go to seed for next year's crops.
My cats like the valerian as much as catnip.
Weeds and herbs, etc, bring minerals up from deep in the subsoil, with their roots.
As I expected. LOL... there isn't any here.
That's one little drawback to rooftop gardening. A primary reason I got so interested in composting, which gets some subsoil added in. I've got 12" of dirt over my house umbrella. Anything deeper-rooted has to be elsewhere, more than 20' from the house perimeter. Which is presently mature forest.
Harvesting weeds grown on the roof sounded like simply returning minerals, possibly in a more useable form. Not that I can't find weeds grown elsewhere. Or the one time I imported grass clippings. Which weren't fully decomposed a full year later...
Probably some interesting exchanges going on here, that I haven't a clue how to evaluate. Everything I've planted worked pretty well. Not that we cared to repeat it all. Allowing anything go to seed is a choice.
Some plants do have incredibly deep roots. Kudzu can go 20', while I had a lady ask that I dig hers up. Not much chance of that. I'll look up pigweed, no idea what's been growing here, that I didn't start.
No gophers. Best to keep a watchful eye on any burrowing critter when you live in a house like this. The larger the critter, the more potential damage. I've dispatched 3 groundhogs in the past 14 yrs. Cats get the voles when they can. Winters, with crops under glass, I rely on JuicyFruit. Bubble gum did not work here.
Valerian sounds like fun. I really appreciate y'alls help.
My maternal grandfather was a (Michigan) farmer, first in his neighborhood to buy a tractor. Never met him. Unfortunately, my mother has no idea how he used to farm. That was men's stuff. She finds it fascinating that I'm interested.
Yeah, well, I do like to eat. Seems pretty obvious. <G> PAHS works. Bury it.
I forgot you were gardening on a roof! Well, all the books say weeds bring up minerals from the subsoil....but I have a hard time believing that those same weeds would be found totally lacking in the minerals they are rich in, if grown on your roof. Need to run an experiment! Can plants transmute minerals? Possible. Where does spinach get its iron? Or horsetail the silica? Horsetail would grow in 12" of soil....
Juicy fruit works on gophers, I've heard? Voles also? Do you have to put it down their tunnel? (voles don't have tunnels, tho...?)
My Mom helped harvest potatoes when she was young, and always had a garden when I was a kid. Back then I didn't want to garden; it was work (and usually very hot and humid work, summer in FL). Sure enjoy it now......being in the garden is the best remedy for town trips.(!)
Juicy fruit works on gophers, I've heard? Voles also? Do you have to put it down their tunnel? (voles don't have tunnels, tho...?)
You are a trouble-maker, aren't you? Upsetting my complacent ignorance. <G>
Those little rodents aren't any moles, that I knew. Assumed they were voles, which turns out to be wrong. Seems voles will use mole tunnels. Nor are they shrews, either common or pygmy, which cats won't eat. Mice and chipmunks and rats we've got. Them I know.
Not golden moles or marsupial moles. Which aren't moles...
What I don't know tunnels into my raised beds from at least 30' away. Loves the salad outside the tunnel's front door when it's the only grocery around. Whatever else they may favor, I have no idea. Next time I get a Lola-deposited intact one, I'll photograph it.
Do you have any idea how many mole varieties there are? Good lord ...
This is also why I never tried very hard to understand all those garden books talking about deep subsoil mineral extraction. There's gotta be some other process going on as well. Or instead of.
Too much for my poor little pea pickin' brain.
However... it was a revenge of sorts when I astounded my mother with my gardening. I too was raised learning to hate the effort. Trying to grow midwestern plants on the Arizona desert. A fool's errand. Which totally changed the pollen count everybody went there for.
You make town trips?
PAHS works. Bury it.
Here's the pigweed, along with lamb's quarter to the right, and chickweed underneath...the red to the right is Ruby Streaks mustard, a great little mustard I'm trying this year. All the wild ones are really nutritious, so are nice 'weeds' to have.
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I believe what my cats catch are meadow voles, but didn't know if they used tunnels, or could tunnel. Guess they'd use them if they found them....one managed to get under the greenhouse 2x4 plate, and eat all my winter salad greens once. Moles...they are tinier, aren't they? But we all just call these critters moles, or rats...just like calling something a gopher means a billion different things, in different places. Gophers (pocket gophers) usually tunnel from long ways off, have pockets in their cheeks, stuffed with grass...if Lola catches one. And they tend to eat roots, and pull the plants down under.
Town? Hopefully not more than once a week...
Edited 6/23/2008 1:39 pm ET by intaglio
You've got different weeds. Probably no surprise. And probably different rodents too.
Cats are all pretty much the same. Why does this one insist on sleeping on my lap? Not really a problem until she toots... whew... how does that cloud come out of such a little sweetie?
DW claims it's 'cause she eats rodents.
Watched a gopher pull 4' tomato plants down by the roots (in a rental house) once. Missed it, but I sure turned over the dirt. That house had a warren around it. PAHS works. Bury it.
""Missed it....."" Try standing just a bit further back from the hole before pulling the rigger next time. Shot spread wasn't quite enough.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
LOL... thanks.
That was before we moved up here and learned the value of a shotgun. Which came about when DW went out to pick a perfect tomato she'd had her eye on for dinner.
It was missing.
She'd seen a groundhog, cute little thing. But that tomato sent her over the edge. And Walmart happened to have a shotgun sale that day. Took 3 days before I saw the little bugger, racing across the roof. Not quite fast enough to outrun the #5.
Lucky shot. As were the other 2, spread out over the last decade.PAHS works. Bury it.
<"Cats are all pretty much the same. Why does this one insist on sleeping on my lap? Not really a problem until she toots... whew... how does that cloud come out of such a little sweetie?">
My opinion is it's commercial cat food. Mine smell lots nicer eating raw turkey.
My opinion is it's commercial cat food. Mine smell lots nicer eating raw turkey.
Uh, we are discussing feline flatulence? "Nicer", being distinctly relative. <G>
Not from rodents' worms, eh?
OK... I was planning to attempt filling a freezer with turkey this year. Assuming we get acorns, unlike last year with almost none. And no turkeys. Year before last was a spectacular year (for both), I got spoiled.
We've been using only Science Diet for years. Never a problem before. Maybe Lola's different, gastrocolically, from the boys. Somehow, free-feeding with raw turkey sounds problematical. PAHS works. Bury it.
<"Not from rodents' worms, eh?">
Worms are pretty odorless, themselves, if you really want to check it out....! But just take a whiff of a bag of catfood when you first open it.....or a can of catfood. (curiously, the organic catfood is very low odor, almost acceptible....so my cats get a little of that, mixed into their veggies and oatmeal, and raw turkey in the morning. No, can't feed it free choice....which my cat books say is a no-no anyhow (hard on their kidneys). My cats are older (15 yrs), so feeding isn't as simple as tossing them that dry stuff. I brought one thru liver disease (caused by toxic fumes from floor adhesive)....with a homeopathic vet who told me which herbs to feed. So he still gets his grated carrot and parsley each day, no dry catfood allowed.
Same with my dogs. Commercial food makes their farts and poop stink horribly, but the beans/rice/veggie makes less smell and such nice poop. OK, it's not really *nice* poop, but it sure doesn't stink as bad as the meat stuff.Cats can't be convinced. Theirs still reeks. :^(
Cats can't be convinced. Theirs still reeks. :^(
What they bury in the woods really doesn't concern me. Once I've trained each new one that my garden isn't the best place.
I was hoping to eliminate the farts altogether. DW had a word with the vet yesterday who suggested that the teaspoon of vanilla yogurt every morning probably wasn't helping. Gassy 12 hrs later? Hard to imagine.
Today she got plain yogurt.
BTW, all new raised beds here are going to get medium crushed stone as the base. Cheaper than JuicyFruit.PAHS works. Bury it.
ex DW used to complain about the cat's oderous emittings .
Then the ex DW left , cat stayed and the air suddenly was no longer foul. Another of life's mysteries.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Have you read 'The Silent Meow'?
No I haven't. I am not a "Cat" person by any stretch of the imagination. I have lived with plenty of them , but I would never have owned or been owned by one myself .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
In wintertime, their isn't too much outside digging to be had so i have a litter box in the shop; it can get gamey if i don't stay on top of it. I caught Floyd, the blind cat, trying to dig in the Blumenhugel. I was torn between elder/disabled abuse and plant salvation, then it suddenly rained hard right over the Hugel. With any luck, those two events are now inextricably connected for him.
How deep will the stone in the raised beds have to be to stop diggers coming through it? I can envision them pushing a stone at a time down the tunnel until they have a pathway to your carrots. You could name the intruder "Sisyphus"...something to carve on his headstone later.
Crushed stone depth? Haven't done it yet, but I was thinking 3-4" should suffice. Pretty sure stone size is more important. Too small and they might go through, too large and they could go between. I was thinking 1-1½".
Surely somebody on the internet's already written about this.
In wintertime, their isn't too much outside digging to be had so i have a litter box in the shop;
You old softie, you. There's always digging to be had, even if I have to shovel the snow off a patch first, and a path to it. I'm a good dad, and it beats living with a litter box. They don't tarry. Winters, the hole's generally just moving some leaves, which I suppose you don't have a lot of. Unlike the several inches here.
Here's Hobbes. He found a solution, if maybe not a hole. Didn't take him long to understand my veggie beds were only for rodent patrol. Cats train just fine if you apply yourself. Just don't want to try to teach them very many tricks.PAHS works. Bury it.
Floyd used to climb ladders to be with me when i'd be laying shingles, before he went blind. I had to be careful flipping the airhose. The first couple times i carried him back down, but he figured it out once i stopped doing that.
I had a cat missing for three days who just showed up again this morning. Giselle is sleeping like a dead one in her basket...wonder what THAT story was...?
In winter if i don't supply the litter box, they use the wood shavings in the shop. And it's not as obvious *squish*. You think you're lazy...i truly chose the path of least resistance on the winterpoo issue by having the litter box.
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PassingAnotherHotSteamy works. Bury it!
Gives me a whole new understanding about you.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Gives me a whole new understanding about you.
Hey, you knew my email address... mtncats
Speaking of which, Hobbes again:PAHS works. Bury it.
<" DW had a word with the vet yesterday who suggested that the teaspoon of vanilla yogurt every morning probably wasn't helping. Gassy 12 hrs later? Hard to imagine.">
Could be it, the dairy products. Seems I noticed that with my mama kitty(with cottage cheese or yogurt). Did the vet mean the vanilla, or the dairy product?
Got these?
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Yikes! No, fortunately.
What is that?PAHS works. Bury it.
Called a naked mole rat..ugly bastid huh?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
That's an understatement.
Your idea of a pet?PAHS works. Bury it.
The Juicy fruit solution is a myth.
Is that straight from the gopher's mouth?!
I've only heard about it, never tried it. Claims it gums up their insides or something. I still favor hunting cats, they are fast and good. Mine are getting old and lazy, but used to come back with a couple a day (each) sometimes. Was hoping this tomcat would stay around and hunt for me...but he seems to like going off....
Moles are carnivores and eat worms and other subterranian critters.Voles are basically mice and like gophers, are vegetarian and actually very destructive.I don't know how the juicy fruit thing got started, but if the critters disappear when gum is deployed, there is probably another reason for their leaving. Field studies have pretty much ruled that method out.Voles are really difficult to deal with....there are some pesticide baits formulated for them, kind of like rat poison, but they really prefer plants.And gophers are not only persistent....they're smart and fast. I have used a shotgun on them, but it's time-consuming....Moles don't bother me....there are a lot of them here but, aside from their "unsightly" mole hills, which annoy golfers and lawn owners, they're pretty harmless.Gophers I don't have, but have in the past....really a challenge.I'm still trying to determine how I'm going to deal with the voles.I don't have cats, but when I have, they tend to prefer to hunt wild birds, a behavior I won't tolerate.....
Gophers might be fast, but cats are even faster. They sit patiently by the hole/pile of fresh dirt, waiting. Suddenly something happens, they send a clawed paw down and hook a gopher. But they bring back far more voles, and love them. The voles never seem to do damage to the garden in summer, the way the gophers do. Fresh dirt piles today, right next to potatoes that needed hilling......were they helping?
Perhaps the 'juicy fruit' gives off an odor gophers don't like, or scares them?
My cats know I don't like them to go after birds, and seem to stick to voles and gophers. They can have the birds that hit the windows, unless I rescue them first, and they revive.
Edited 6/24/2008 3:44 am ET by intaglio
The Juicy fruit solution is a myth.
Sorry, you're wrong.
For the past 4 years, every time I had marauders under my winter glass, JuicyFruit solved the problem for several weeks. I tried other gum, didn't work.
Can't vouch for the exact process. But it was 100% effective. And coincided with vole breeding cycles. Not that I had voles...
Coincidence?
14 solutions out of 14 occurances says probably not.PAHS works. Bury it.
We may both be right. I looked back into some old notes I had and the "myth" concerned a field study done on moles. In Oregon, there are at least three varieties. In my life, I've trapped hundreds of them. I caught one just a few years ago that was eleven inches long not counting his tail. But the only things I ever found sure-fire for moles was a shotgun, a homemade mole gun and those Victor clamping type traps (the best IMO).Voles are a different story; in Oregon there are seven varieties; some are very specialized....one, in fact, eats ONLY Doug fir tree needles.The ones in my garden are about 7 inches long and are burrowers. I have one of those DR field mowers and sometimes when I'm mowing down some 6 or 8' tall Canary grass, I'll get one, but otherwise I've had no luck. But now, I may try the JF gum on them....if it works, I'll send you a pack of phantom dog bones. :-)I don't have gophers here, but when I lived in the Willamette Valley foothills years ago, I had one gopher that drove me nuts. I would sit in a chair for hours with a shotgun waiting for him to stick his head up, or try to predict his location when I'd see a row of carrot tops disappearing into the ground (no kidding....it was like a cartoon). One evening, I'd been in my chair being absolutely still for over an hour when I heard digging nearby....the SOB surfaced right under my chair!I had a D-6 Cat at the time and had a brush rake attachment for the blade with 18" teeth. As a last resort, I fired it up one day and scoured about half an acre; I either got him or he chose new digs...never saw another gopher while I lived there.
In my pre-animal rights days, i got so mad at one that i stomped him dead in his tunnel as he was hauling down radishes. Not my finest moment and it didn't scare the other 999,999 rodents in the immediate area (foothills above Fresno).
I know your garden is huge, but instead of hanging out all day with a shotgun, wouldn't it be a one-shot solution to build beds with screened bottoms? Untenable idea for that size of garden?
I'm not sure I want to deal with screened bottoms. Part of it is the expense and then the fact that I rotate plantings around each year, I don't want to impede root growth because, since I'm near the creek, I do get some sub-irrigation on things like corn (which I'm not putting in this year). :-(This morning, my two big mutts did catch a mole in the pasture.I'm hoping the voles will head out to the pasture areas soon....that's what has happened in the past because, relative to the fields, the garden is a bit sparse. And I can always hope the Screech Owls participate in the garden patrol at night.BTW, this hoophouse of mine, small as it is, is just working out great.My friend who built the small greenhouse I posted pics of (several hundred posts ago) is trying to chum me into building two longer and wider hoophouses next year. I've got the room and a good location just west of the garden, but....I'll think about it.
I'm definitely building another HH next season for the things that need pollination. I've been having squash sex the last two mornings bec the female flowers aren't getting pollinated by insects. Beans/tomatoes/peppers/oeas produce 'perfect'/self-pollinating flowers, so no probs there, but the squashes indoors are going to present a logistics problem. The lacewings were supposed to like pollen, too, so i though they'd do double duty once they finished off the aphids. I need to write that company, tell them they send dead eggs bec conditions were perfect when i released them.The doors are propped open on the HH to allow flyers to get indoors...hmmm, not exactly good planning considering the dearth of pollinators this year. Usually at least the cutter bees are about, but not even them. I haven't seen even any cabbage moths, another reason i built the HH, to screen them out! Usually the alfalfa is just humming now...eerie. My salvia/sage is in full bloom...no bees to be seen. It's more than alarming...
On the subject of pollenating: At one time I had 4 hives next to the garden; a bear got one and any of a variety of mites, choc-brood or whatever got the next two. The 4th one died off early Spring this year.Nearby is a large Red Cedar with a hive and YESTERDAY, while I was weeding, a new swarm moved into the empty hive (which I'd sterilized and installed new bases....just hoping....).Beekeeping is pretty discouraging these days....but with the hoophouse door open during the day, the bees have started exploring as of this morning.I think I'm OK on the pollenation from a variety of critters, but the bees are the best.Right now, the hive has canary grass growing up around it...I'll try to remember to get a photo this afternoon.
I was wondering if maybe there were beekeepers who'd been putting hives in the area before, but hadn't done so this year. Doesn't explain the lack of cutter bees, though. They were imported by the alfalfa growers when the honey bees weren't up to the task, so i heard. They can do some substantial damage to smaller plants, esp small maple trees which they nearly defoliated some years before. They use the semi-circular bits of leaves for fine homebuilding. Like i said...very quiet out there. Wasps have been feeding on aphids in the trees...i expect that's how the fruit trees got fertilized, and i saw a moth that came out at night only briefly, earlier this year. I've been since reading about eggs some moths deposit whose maggots ruin the fruit later, so i won't be thanking them just yet. The raspberries aren't blooming yet, but that will be telling to see if they get fertilized or not.
Well, there ya go!All these human-caused unintended consequences....makes one ponder what forces may be at work....and whether Mother Nature is of a biological form....
I'd agree, very quiet out there this year. Is it the late cold Spring/summer, or something else? The honeybees (a beetender puts in my field) arrived a month late this year...said it was the cold Spring. My apples seem to be making fruit, but not the huge crops.
And just this morning wondered what happened to all my swallows....I did move a couple boxes, and chickadees stole them, but that's not enough. One barn swallow is using the carport, but built a very small nest....and I found a dead newly hatched baby on the floor. Other birds are chirping with babies everywhere....just a few odd things I'm noticing.
You must have ESP, I was going to ask for that picture of a gopher!
The raspberries aren't blooming yet
Come on over. My little patch is producing nicely. Even better, got a call this AM that the parent patch is ready, and the bear hasn't yet shown up. Same customer who provided the cherries. He even offered freezer space if we needed some.
DW asked if I was still sitting here.
I'm getting the impression that this guy who grows enough of everything to feed a small town isn't very successful at giving it away. Or at least getting anybody to come pick. I got the majority of his cherries, to his delight. Not that bird-feeding is bad...
Unsure how many invitations he puts out. He did mention that he really appreciates my dropping whatever when his backhoe breaks. Never breaks when you don't need it. Service with a smile, and a bill.
Lessee, a gallon of gas to get a grocery bag or few of wild raspberries... Yup, it's a deal. PAHS works. Bury it.
Intaglio sent me a pic of her colander full of strawberries this morning. Between the two of you, i'm feeling berry, berry jealous....red with envy, as it were.
OTOH, i'm reading all this talk of moles and voles with a certain smugness.
red with envy, as it were.
Wish we could share, but they won't ship. Or last long. DW tells me it's healthy eating. Something about antioxidants. Sure are delectable.
As will be the fresh bread I'll take over as a thankyou this afternoon. Rising as we speak. That raspberry patch will be in shade in a couple of hours. I'll wait.PAHS works. Bury it.
<"One evening, I'd been in my chair being absolutely still for over an hour when I heard digging nearby....the SOB surfaced right under my chair!">
This is how it's done:
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Edited 6/25/2008 2:19 am ET by intaglio
A little slow getting back here. I don't know what I'm (temporarily) eliminating with JuicyFruit. Have never seen one, nor done an autopsy. Elimination period coinciding with breeding cycles sure looks suspicious.
Until intaglio mentioned that voles don't tunnel, I'd assumed I had voles. Looked at a lot of internet info, which left me confused. Still don't have much idea, but Lola came through for me, having consumed her fill. Don't know if this is what gets into my winter garden, but we see a lot of these (3", an adult):PAHS works. Bury it.
Looks like a mole to me.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I wouldn't make a mountain outta it..
Carly the vagrant dog-oyte gets at least 2 a day here, she is a fanatic..hunts all over the property and hay fields, brings em home for the pups. Lately I've been tossing them up in a huge tree crotch to keep the damm fleas out of the house. The moles that is, not the pups..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
They have fleas? Hasn't been a problem.
This has been a bumper year for ticks, both sizes. Lola's butt seems particularly attractive to deer ticks (the tiny ones). Oh yeah, that's a lot of fun removing them. And no, fortunately that's not when she's inclined to fart.
Which BTW, is a good opportunity to re-stress air changes. Your place obviously has no shortage. Some fool here once tried to tell me we over-ventilate. Not when Lola's active.
One of the companies DW represents is Tweezerman. You wouldn't believe the variety of tweezers available. Or little scissors. If you're gonna poke around your cat's butt with tweezers, you want good ones.PAHS works. Bury it.
The ticks have subsided, but were pretty damm thick there about a month ago. Now the fleas are getting active. Yes, moles, mice, rats, you name it..the dog brings em in half eaten and the fleas abandon ship looking for a live host.
The worst was spring time baby rabbits, we had three of four a week brought in, all swarming with fleas.
Why do I have pets again?
Speakin of pests..we had a banner year of cicada/locust this yr. I found that my RO sander and just now, my portable tablesaw ATTRACTS them like no tomorrow..I can't handle it..set up and start sanding or rippig and immediatly you are bombarded by the bastids..must be a frequency of the motors..I mean I wish I had a video of it. Freaking hard to rip narrow strips ( making glass stops) with bugs slamming into everyinch of your body..and they don't actually bite, but they do SOMETHING that lets ya know you been landed on.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I was putting up gutters last year and found that any stray wasps in the area rushed to investigate my cordless drill. I think they were just curious, though, bec after a while they seemed accustomed. I was a little freaked up on the ladder, though...
You've got problems.
Haven't seen the first cicada here yet. Horseflies are by bane. Gotta wear a hat or they think my bald head is a landing strip. Then they try for my ears.
Gotta keep the shop doors closed, or I get dive-bombed. Not what you need when running something through the tablesaw.PAHS works. Bury it.
That is a mole (probably an immature one since most varieties reach 7" or more in length).And the variety of voles that are infesting me DO tunnel. I find fresh open tunnels appearing at various places in the garden plot where the voles surface at night....they don't leave mounds like moles do.I have some material called "dryer felt" which is a thick (about 3/16"), tough, felt like material used in paper mills to spread fresh pulp on in the first step of paper making. Having worked in several sawmills adjacent to papermills in the past, I was able to get a good supply of the used dryer felt and have used it as a winter ground cover. The problem is that it creates a playground for voles and when I've pulled it up, the ground is a maze of vole pathways.For that reason, I've stopped using it because it seems to create a winter haven for the little bastards.
probably an immature one since most varieties reach 7" or more in length
We've seen easily a hundred. Never saw one much larger than the pic. We have seen a bunch of them much smaller, clearly immature.
And the variety of voles that are infesting me DO tunnel. I find fresh open tunnels appearing at various places in the garden plot where the voles surface at night....they don't leave mounds like moles do.
Aha! My winter marauders don't leave mounds, just tunnel. Difficult to determine which direction they came from. Turned out to be my manure pile. Mounds I only notice in the summer, across little-used roads and my tractor shed. The winter tunnelers are taking greens down with them. And the JuicyFruit I drop down the hole, clearly visible, is usually gone the next morning. The rodents, a day or two later. For a few weeks.
As I'm an unenlightened heathen, the prospect of (rodent) terminal constipation delights me. Little ####.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Moles never leave an open hole, just mounds of raw dirt.
If you want to get a shot in at one, open the top of the mound and wait. They will be by to close it after a while. Sneaky devils though , they somehow sense just when you have gone to get that second cup of coffee to put the plug back in.
Best to make a false start towards the coffee pot and return early , fakes them out a bit. ;-) Gophers, ,"ground squirrels", and other rodents do leave open holes.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'm live and let live, until somebody messes with what I want to eat. Thanks to y'all, it seems I've never had a mole in my garden. Lola, and her forebears, must find 'em in the woods. We've been presented with a pile.
Definitely open holes, but only when it gets cold and I've glassed the beds. Maybe they're feeding up there now, without tunnels. If so, I haven't noticed. Things growing so fast, it wouldn't make much difference. Unlike winters.
Tunnels are under 2" d.PAHS works. Bury it.
when I've pulled it up, the ground is a maze of vole pathways.
Not especially germane, but i bought a house with a basement, but no floor down there. The former owners had laid plywood on the dirt and then proceeded to use the basement as a landfill, another story...
Bec they had never put drains around the foundation, the dirt was very moist and it turned out to be ideal toad habitat. When i lifted the plywood 'floor', the ground was alive with toads, living on i-have-no-idea-what. From central hubs spread the equivalent of toad four-lanes, like an Indiana Jones movie, toads so thick you had to watch where you stepped.
I had an excavator pull all the dirt away from the downhill side of the basement, had some other guys saw a hole in the wall, then waited for the toads to find new digs. They left, i hauled all the garbage out, and we all lived happily ever after.
How about a shrew? Length of snout, and lack of flattened digging claws. Both moles and shrews are insectivores, so I'd guess they're not what's taking greens underground to munch on.
Here we are pulling out our big fat books, and cats know these things.
I'm reading and looking at pictures of all these critters in Wild Animals of North America...National Geographic Society book.
Woodland voles (in SE) "dig shallow tunnels, leaving ridges that look like the work of a mole. Infrequently it adventures above ground to forage in leaves... Beady eyes, small ears, blunt head, and short legs mark this "mole mouse" as a burrower."
Meadow voles (Carolinas to Alaska) and Prairie voles (Tennessee & midwest): "voles make paths, called runways, by clipping the grass closely and tramping a path. It is worn into a rut by the patter of little feet. Tall grass - or snow in winter - canopies the trails and helps hide voles from hawks and owls." "Voles' grass-roofed runways weave thru almost every meadow in Canada" (and Washington!)
Then there's the Hispid Cotton Rat (similiar to voles, but longer snouts, are in VA and moving north)...."builds networks of broad runways, with nests in sheltered surface spots or shallow burrows." We had lots of these in FL pastures, cats ate alot. "Do considerable damage to crops..."
Shrews I know of are small, mouse sized if that .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
None of the moles pictured had such a long snout. Chunky heads, and those typical flattened digging claws. Maybe it's specific to Virginia?
Just went back and looked at the pic again. Feet aren't large enough and lack th e""webbing" I am used to . Second look has me doubting my mole statement. Not sure what it is . It may be a shrew, but at 3" as told that would be a big one in my experience.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Maybe a shrew :
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/inhsreports/jan-feb99/shrew.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/inhsreports/jan-feb99/shrew.html&h=301&w=450&sz=35&tbnid=lt-rhaaLp4QJ::&tbnh=85&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dshrew&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&cd=1
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
""Shrews have feet with five clawed toes, unlike rodents, which have four. "" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrew
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
""Shrews have feet with five clawed toes, unlike rodents, which have four. ""
Seems to match all the pictures in this book, except the deer mouse and white footed mouse's hind feet, with have a 5th 'thumb'.
That's it. That profile of long nose and set back mouth just said 'shrew'. Sounds like most often the cat won't eat them....seems mine never did.
Shrews I've seen have been tiny also....but this book lists the Pygmy Shrew at 2.6 to 3.8" with the tail taking up about a third. And the Short-tailed shrew at 5" including a 1" tail. And do live in VA.....
Here we are pulling out our big fat books, and cats know these things.
LOL... Exactly. And Lola ain't talking. Nor does she much care what we call 'em.
So you and dovetail do your latenight research.
However, I still can't quite believe what y'all got me to do. Head to the woods, braving ticks and chiggers, to try to retreive a dead rodent, or whatever it was, for a careful toe count.
Didn't find it. Did find some suspiciously canine tracks and an opened burrow that was way too large for that little critter in the photo. 15' from the patio.
Coyote patrol is resumed.
Pretty sure the vet frowned at all dairy. DW likes to spoil cats. 2 against 1, I don't have a chance. PAHS works. Bury it.
Some fresh garden pics:
The direct-seeded bed on the right has filled in and few weeds grow anymore. I thought up a good plan for drying cabbage leaves (used in the dogs' food) using clothespins and the bean trellis, at least until the beans get too tall. They dry in two days in my initial test, if the leaves aren't touching one another. If they touch...much longer.
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I added stakes that also act as purlin supports. Tomatoes are tied to the stakes and squashes are tied to the PVC ribs. I doubt i will tie the squashes up again....big PITA and lots of prickers made it no fun.
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The training program:
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The clamps are removable. I used slipxslipxthreaded T's. The side of the T was cut away to accept the purlin with very firm force snapping the fitting in place, but they are removable so that i can rotate crops next year to the other side of the HH. The metal conduit was a very snug fit in the threaded side of the joint. The other end is propped on the side of the raised bed. One 10' length of conduit cut in two pcs. was exactly the right length....lucky!
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Edited 6/27/2008 2:02 am by splintergroupie
More:
The perspective is deceiving..the bowl is 14" across. I made about a quart of pesto today and froze it in servings.
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The salvia/sage is in full bloom, normally covered in bees when that happens. There is not a single one.
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The sad state of the spuds:
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Edited 6/27/2008 2:09 am by splintergroupie
I'v been pollinating squash by hand with mixed results since i'm not really sure what i'm doing. Most of what's in the HH won't need insect pollination bec the flowers are self-fertile, but something very odd is occurring here.
A month ago i had some flying insects that seemed to be hunting aphids...good news since the lacewings i bought and distributed did zilch. The aphids are not numerous now, but the flying insects are gone. I've seen no wasps, no bees to speak of besides the occasional single stray. There are no cutter bees, either, who leave a telltale circular cut in the edge of a leaf, taking the portion to build their nests. I've seen a few butterflies caught in the HH, but otherwise very few.
I have a meadowlark that uses an elm tree for a sound stage, but no other birds, where i am accustomed to seeing bluebirds, red-winged blackbird, western tanagers, and all the LBBs (Little Brown Birds).
I'm going to start asking around to see if it's just my place or a general condition. This is kind of spooky.
"Silent Spring"?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'm thinking it would be pretty chitty if i garden organically and the hay farmers have screwed this up for me. :^(I've got a neighbor with a garden close by. I'll go over there soon and check out her plot. I know she started spraying her trees for aphids,etc. last year, but that doesn't seem like it could be enough of a jolt to wipe 'em all out.
I'm going to start asking around to see if it's just my place or a general condition. This is kind of spooky.
Very. But bird absence would seem reasonable if there's nothing to eat there. You admitted you don't provide worms... <G> Last year with no acorns to speak of here, the turkeys went elsewhere.
No idea who does all our pollinating, but there's no shortage of suspects. Hostas are full of bumblebees. We have our normal contingent of birds, bugs, and burrowers.
Oddly, the huge raspberry patch where I collected chiggers hadn't seen deer or bear. Guy living there loves to watch, nada. Major topic for him and his also-retired buddies that afternoon. Plenty of birds. His is the last house up the mountain, lots of mountain above him. He had a sow raise a cub in a debris pile from clearing the property. Sure surprised him when he spooked her one day.
PAHS works. Bury it.
This is getting curiouser and curiouser.
I just came in from a real good look-see around the place. There are no ants left around the tree bases, the ones i was combatting with Tanglefoot around the stems to keep them from farming aphids. I remember about two weeks ago commenting to a friend that i needed to use insecticidal soap spray on the aphids that were left in the trees, reproducing without ant help. Today there are no aphids alive on the trees except for one Nanking cherry that has a small number.
I walked over to my driveway area that is normally crawling with ants using it as a highway between one antpile and another. There are no ants. A few on one little secion of the big antpile, but nowhere near what i'd expect.
Saw a few butterflies in my walk, no bees, lots of grasshoppers.
For those who don't read the Tavern..."hasbeen" had become "husbandman" due to the glitches in this software not allowing him to change his email without re-registering, etc.I tried mowing newspaper on the grass and it indeed works well for the final product. The hassle is in opening up all the sheets and spreading them out. Still, i'm going to play with the idea.A picture inside the bagger and another with the contents dumped on the new heap i'm starting:
did you try not unfolding them and running over them repeatedly?wonder what would happen if you sprayed them down before the attack?
I've been practicing technique!Wet newspapers are not the way to go. <nonononononono>I had good luck running over the high weeds (mostly alfalfa) first without the catcher, then tossing newspapers, single-paged, all over that. I found i didn't have to be that careful placing them evenly as long as they were single sheets. When i stopped being as careful placing the sheets evenly, i could unfold/scatter a whole newspaper in less than a minute. (I haven't tried a whole newspaper bec i'm afraid it could break the shear pin on the drive shaft if it jammed. Maybe i'll try the lifestyle section and work up from there. <G>)Then the catcher goes back on, and i run over the papers/grass. First pass, they go EVERYWHERE. Once they're chopped though, the second pass cleans them up pretty well. Pulling the mower backwards picks up more bits than going forward, for some reason. Any rate, i can make a bag of compost in a jiffy and the bits are all well mixed in the bag. I started the pile this morning, added to it this evening; the morning edition was already quite hot. I forgot to layer any dirt in it, though...have to remedy that.That was a wonderful idea! Maybe we should submit the tip to Fine Gardening for $$$$$?
I'm just imagining what neighbors think now! This crazy lady scatters newspapers to the wind, then tries to catch them with a lawn mower ~^)
After seeing my whole house come down the road, i don't think much i do surprises them. Eccentric but harmless...It was my neighbor who gave me all the papers, actually. I'll have to tell her the good news! <groan>
Have you tried balling up single pages? just a loose ball and mowing it?
Just curious and figured since you being the official "Paper Shredder" here I would ask.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'm wondering how you envision that would help, unless you mean i could skip the pre-mowing stage? I'll try it, but intuition says that i can mow faster than i can crumple up single pages. I'll be doing more tomorrow, so i'll report back. I'm pretty stoked about this. I've got a good-sized start on a compost pile already. If only i had my Teenager to assist - this would be perfect for two people to do. I'll take a picture also of the tree the grasshoppers feasted on today. I think it can be saved, but there must have been two hundred grasshoppers on the little guy before i noticed what they were doing and went non-organic on them. :^(
Just offering thoughts.
Another one was to set the mower up on blocks, wire the throttle on and roll the papers up into tube the and push them up into the blades from below, or drill a hole into the deck of the mower and feed them down from above.
You will be happy to know i rejected that one in the concept stage so you don't have to try it.;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'm going to scrutinize your suggestions thoroughly from now on.
Well I try to always be on the cutting edge of things you know.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Boooo! That was bad. Even bobbys could do better than that!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
Too late! I already laughed!
Those grasshopper i mentioned? This is what they did to a 5'-tall laburnum/golden chain tree YESTERDAY. Sometimes they get fixated on one plant and just strip it to the veins. This was covered in at least 200 grasshoppers when i noticed it was being targeted. I mowed the grass around it and used grasshopper bait sprinkled in the mulch to knock them back. Keeping the grass short around the trees seems to help the most, but sometimes that gets away from me when i have so much else going on.
Looks like you need to call on that Mormon connection and get the seagulls flying .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I've actually seen a seagull here. Musta used Mapquest...
Did you mean a Golden Rain Tree?
If so how invasive are they?
I sent away for ten trees from the National Arbor day foundation and
got two of them.
A web search came back classifying them as a class two invasive
species.
And what the heck does that really mean? Of course the rest of the tree's are twigs while these things
look like their ready to take on Manhattan.
I've been skunked by the NADF, too. I think it's rather common, from complaints i've read online of them sending dead twigs pretty often.
This is a weeping golden rain tree grafted apparently on non-weeping laburnum stock because the suckers it sent up seem not of the weeping form, but with firmer, less-rubbery stems. I potted those up in separate containers...hope they survive.
As to invasiveness, i coudn't say but i've never seen another one around here. I've planted this one on the shadier side of the house, protected from wind by a retaining wall. It seems to tolerate the cold, but it's not exactly flourishing, especially not when it has to produce a second set of leaves.
Golden Chain and Golden Rain are sometimes used interchangeably for the Laburmun, while others say they refer to different genera. Here's a discussion at Gardenweb, a pretty good resource: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg041518113630.html
Here's the Laburnum:
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And here's the Koelreuteria:
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Edited 6/28/2008 11:30 pm by splintergroupie
The Further Adventures of Composting Colleen
I experimented with running the tractor mower over the papers and that worked well except for a slight burning odor that was a little disturbing, but nothing caught on fire. I was able to leave sections of the newspaper intact instead of flipping out single pages on the grass. Balling them up gave no advantage and took too long. I didn't bother with pre-mowing, just went for it, grass and papers at the same time. Stuff got flung far, but it was chopped very well with a couple passes over the papers/grass.
I picked up the debris with the catcher on the walk-behind mower, but i had to empty it about every 40' or so, very time-consuming, but i filled the bed of the Toy twice this afternoon. It seemed like it took a long time, but one of my neighbors, a new one, came over to meet the madwoman and see what was going on, so the interruption took some time. "Linda" has a horse i offered pasture to if i got first dibs on the clean poop. We're in negotiations...
This is one of the dirtiest jobs i've ever done and gives me new appreciation for mushroom compost at $37.50 per pickup load. I'm completely filthy, no folds or wrinkles unsullied. Last night's experimentation was successful, but this is rather messy in larger quantities. Oh, well, it's biodegradable. People sure were staring from their cars...
The picking-up process with the small mower takes so long that i'll either need a collection bag on the lawn tractor or i'll use these papers on the lawn-to-be, shredded in place with the mower, then tilled in with Chuck's WonderHorse this fall. Jury's out until i see how it composts. The pile got quite a lot smaller when it was watered, but if it's mahvelous, i'll persevere. Some pics of the process:
Paper trail:View Image
Paper route:View Image
Rolling [in the hay] papers (stack is about 3' high):View Image
Edited 6/29/2008 12:26 am by splintergroupie
I can hear the neighbors... "the crazy lady is at it again!"
I'll be waiting for the post that says you ran out neked and jumped in the pond in the middle of Feb. That will be the point when the neighbors put up a website to document the crazy lady ;)
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
She might be jumping ON the pond in February. But she won't be jumping IN the pons...
Self defense is a part of the law of nature; nor can it be denied the community, even against the king himself. [William Barclay]
Maybe she can buy a couple of those floating water tank heater deals to keep a section of the pond open :)
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
When the week is finally over,
It is wonderful to go
And putter in my garden
Where I watch the flowers grow. It is pleasant in my garden
As I cultivate my seeds;
I plant and hoe and water
And I clear away the weeds. Though it's frantic at the theater,
Here I leave all that behind,
And the calm within my garden
Gives this frog some peace of mind. -Kermit
What? It's not War, not Man against Nature?!?!?!
.
.
.
You need some grasshoppers. ;^)
Got a few hoppers, but they don't get in the garden. I take some time once in a while, catch a few and feed the young salmon in the pond.Slugs, I do have, but controlling them is pretty easy.Things are starting to rock and roll in the work patch....tilled some more beds and put in some carrots (I usually put in several successive plantings on into the fall) and a bunch of other stuff.I'll get back on here in due time...got roped into helping my FIL with a landscaping project along with a kid he hired. I'm only doing it so he won't hurt himself. He's 84 and pretty puny, but, in his mind, he's 28 and won't pace himself....sigh.
I just came in from changing the water and saw a cabbage moth in the HH. It's peculiar to see a flying nasty and take it as a sign that the world isn't coming to an end. A couple bees on the raspberries, too...No slugs with my newspaper mulch, so far. I had a population that was ramping up in the last HH, but i mulched in there with straw instead of a film-type mulch like plastic or paper. I've also thought that perhaps cultivation keeps their numbers in check, but i haven't seen a one in these new beds.
What? It's not War, not Man against Nature?!?!?!
http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lvta.htmljt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
That's a great story, isn't it? I was subbing for an English teacher one week and that was the assignment. The kids really got into it.
Wow! Cool!How green and lush was the ground cover? I'm wondering about the ration of "hot/green" to "cold/brown"? Is that 3' high after you watered it down? Did you do anything to help the pile breathe or do you plan to turn it?
I think i had more paper that grass in the heap, but i was mowing in grass instead of alfalfa, which would add more greenery. I just stuck my arm in the heap and it's obviously working. I put a thermometer as far as i could reach inside to see what temp it gets to.
Yes, 3' after i watered it. Basically, two Toyota pickup beds of material. If i take out distractions and gassing up, it was probably about 2.5 hours of actual work to get that.
I haven't made provisions for aerating the pile. I will turn it because the outside gets dry quickly. I guess the paper acts like a wick. A cap of dirt would be a good idea, i suspect. Tomorrow...
Sounds like not too much work. Building a compost heap is work no matter how ya go about it.
Thanks,
That link looks very useful.
The NADF fessed up by sending the trees in the beginning
of May. You can't plant anything around here then. So by the time
the weather turned most were moldy and or dead. I didn't even want these Rain trees, but don't want them to go to
waste. I'm thinking I'll put them in a clearing in our woods. If
they make it great if not I tried...
That invasive thing made me nervous about planting it somewhere
I might not monitor it very closely.
I received one of those packets of ten from NADF and the only thing to grow out of it was a euonymus. It was doing very well for 15 years at the house i used to own until the new owner ripped it out this Spring to plant petunias. Ya just gotta laugh...
Gardenweb has a lot to recommend it besides the gardening part; there's a lot there on home topics of all types. I was turned onto it by my late mate who used to post on their flooring forum. Good group, lots of conflicting info but always pretty congenial.
We had GoldenRain trees in FL: they weren't invasive; seedlings sprouted up now and then. But it was a more delicate leaf than the picture of Laburnam posted by Splintie (different subspecies? or that dry sugar sand?).
There are only two species in the Laburnum genus, but there is a "Golden Shower" (don'tevengothere) tree in the same family, though the genus is Cassia. The laburnums have trifolate leaves while Cassia fistula has pinnate leaves and is found in tropical and subtropical climes, originating in India. Maybe that's the one with the more-delicate leaves you saw in Florida???
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Neither one shows up in my field guide, so they must be non-natives. It was definately called GoldenRain, but names might have changed with usage. Had compound leaves, and made 'berries' that hung into Autumn, ornamental. Looked a little more like that last photo, but wish I could see the leaves better.......
With this hot weather, my squash got their freedom:
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The beets and carrots in the raised beds (with screened bottoms against gophers) are doing much better than they ever do in the regular garden rows. Never had beets so happy & tender.
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My cabbages are working at catching up to yours...almost 2' across.. these are Savoy, the littler ones are Jersey Wakefield type (smaller pointed heads).
And a picture of the peas (Petite Pois) on the 'trellis' of apricot shoots. (Wild Arugula in front and Eqyptian Walking onions in left rear (would you like some???....they've walked all over my garden...). Oops, this picture slipped thru without getting resized smaller.
This heat has me running to keep everything watered enough. Too bad the lettuce will be bolting.
Edited 6/29/2008 5:31 pm ET by intaglio
Your squash get their freedom; mine are being tied to the ribs. Your idea is better!
Some of the hand-pollinated squash are growing - boy howdy, are they growing. I also have squashes planted outside, beside the drippers under a dozen trees, so hopefully there will be more insects to pollinate them outdoors. I decided i can't do it all and any more pollination will have to come from Nature.
My spinach suddenly bolted, so i'll freeze what's there, put some more seeds out. And more radishes...i keep forgettting. Lettuce crop is just amazing...leaves the length of my forearm and very tender. The lack of breeze that makes the bush beans need shaking to firm them up seems to make for extremely tender greens.
Your peas against the red twigs are quite pretty!
I swear those squash leaves got larger since I took the pictures this morning. Wish I'd measured them! Must be this heat, and warm nights; could almost sit and watch them grow. All our greenhouses and row covers is nothing compared to some nice hot weather...
The rows are closing over in the HH. If i didn't cut the cabbage leaves, i wouldn't be able to walk down the east side aisle.
Another bug i thought of that i'm missing is cabbage moths. Not that i miss them, but it's another indication of how peculiar the insect population is. Are grasshoppers carnivorous???
"Are grasshoppers carnivorous???"
Only when they're genetically modified.
After i posted that to you, half in jest, i googled to see if there might actually be any carnivorous grasshoppers, and the search term came up with the carnivorous grasshopper-eating mouse, to bring us back to rodents. One would almost think it is genetically crossed with a wolf, for its habit of howling and predation. It seems the little buggers are pretty ferocious on the grasshopper population, will eat other rodents, and only 10% of its diet is seeds and grasses.
I sense a Hollywood movie based on this.
What i don't quite understand is that they are nocturnal, but night-time seems the wrong time to hunt grasshoppers. Maybe they sneak up on the sleeping ones. A very interesting critter for sure. Here's more....
I'd heard of that howling mouse....that is surely what you could use. Let me know if it scares off coyotes, too.
Or you could go for those chicken dressed in burdandy browns, wearing tophats. Would add the right bit of class...or..?
The fun part of looking into starting a chicken ranch is looking at the coops people have made. Google Images has some really fun ones. Looks like it gets quite a lot harder in this climate. I can see me lodging the chickens in the bathroom on cold nights...
Edited 7/1/2008 10:41 pm by splintergroupie
My neighbors built a cute little strawbale/adobe house for their chickens...the rooster crows even in winter, they must be happy. I can just see those tophat chickens sticking their pretty heads out of your creative chickenhouse.
These spirals of zuccini flowers caught my eye...
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Edited 7/2/2008 2:37 am ET by intaglio
Edited 7/2/2008 2:56 am ET by intaglio
I was impressed how often the spiral appears in Nature....
Edited 7/2/2008 3:03 am ET by intaglio
Spirals are a bit elusive on computer screens...here it is finally:
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Edited 7/2/2008 3:09 am ET by intaglio
Not just any old spiral either, mostly they are Fibbinacci related.
Out of the chaos, comes order.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Hmmm... that was interesting.
Thought that you'd mangled the name, even with live-in Italian help. <G> Both spellings are commonly used: Fibbinacci and Fibonacci. The guy's name was Leonardo Bonacci, from Pisa or Fibonacci, 1170-1250. Aka Leonardo Pisano, and Fibonacci. No idea when/where Fibbinacci came into play.
Anyhow, the series: each number is the sum of the previous two. PAHS works. Bury it.
Spelling? Who needs spelling? You knew who I meant..LOL
Yep and the golden mean ( rectangle) is the resulting product, when the spiral is boxed in..or somesuch thing.(G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Someone may come along and accuse me of being a terror sympathizer for saying this, but old Fibonacci (or whatever his name really was) had to go to Africa to learn math from the Arabs in order to have been remembered at all. Prior to his return to Italy, Europeans had no concept of zero and their math was very limited.
History was never a favored subject for me. However, I understand there were some pretty amazing things done in Alexandria, Egypt (Africa).
A quick look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_mathematics reveals:
"Recognizing that arithmetic with Hindu numerals is simpler and more efficient than with Roman numerals, Fibonacci traveled throughout the Mediterranean world to study under the leading Arab mathematicians of the time. Leonardo returned from his travels around 1200. In 1202, at age 32, he published what he had learned in Liber Abaci (Book of Abacus or Book of Calculation), and thereby introduced Hindu-Arabic numerals to Europe." (Emphasis not mine, those were links)
Everybody's work, Arab included, is based on what they've learned from others.
And I doubt he ever saw a hoop house.PAHS works. Bury it.
And I doubt he ever saw a hoop house.
Not an affordable-to-the-hoi-polloi one, for sure! But he likely saw the prototype.
The first examples of similar structures to house exotic plants were built ~30 AD in Rome for the Emperor Tiberius. Since glass hadn't been invented yet, mica was used in a panes-taking procedure to provide both light and shelter.
First usage of greenhouses by Americans was to grow oranges (orangeries) and pineapples (pineries) out of season by the wealthy, aping Europe. George Washington was a big fan of the process here, but he was a little behind the curve elsewhere.
I've seen Kew Gardens outside London and Faneuil Hall in Boston, two of the larger surviving monster greenhouses of that era. Fabulous structures. Here's a detail of the railing on one of the spiral staircases inside the largest structure at Kew.
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Edited 7/2/2008 3:57 pm by splintergroupie
Nice detail.
You oughta give credit though: http://www.hobby-greenhouse.com/history_of_greenhouses.htm
Which goes on to say in the same paragraph "It wasn't until 1599 that the first practical greenhouse was designed by Jules Charles a French botanist."
A little past Fibonacci's time. But ask the houseguy, maybe those Arabs were ahead there too.PAHS works. Bury it.
That information is widely available. I first read it in Ortho's paperback book called How to Build and Use Greenhouses that i borrowed about five weeks ago from the local library. It talked a lot about the rivalries between the European monarches and even Czar Alexander I got in on the craze with several enormous greenhouses heated through the winter with birchwood. I remember thinking that being a Royal Firewood Cutter during a Russian winter coudn't have been worth whatever you got paid. That article you cited looks like an abbreviaton of the chapter in the Ortho book, which is probably plagiarzied from somewhere else. What was that you said about borrowing?
Edit: you made me go back and emphasize "spiral" staircase. I've never been accused of subtlety, but i sometimes manage it without trying.
Edited 7/2/2008 3:59 pm by splintergroupie
Your mention of Tiberius (emperor 14-37 AD) was what got my attention. We've spent enough time in Roman environs that if there was anything left of Tiberius' greenhouse, we would have heard of/seen it. That's the Tiber river flowing through the middle of town, though in Italian: Tevere.
A little later, Hadrian built the Pantheon (120-124 AD). A concrete structure that's endured the test of time. Got my attention.
Had a job offer once, wandering around a very old Roman neighborhood, Trastevere. I smelled wood dust and followed my nose. Sure enough, a custom furniture maker. Unfortunately his English was worse than my Italian, photos of my pieces helped. When he learned that we had an apartment available, he was ready for me to go to work. Intriguing, but we had other plans.
On the shore of the Sea of Galilee sits Tiberias, a spa. Dedicated to Tiberius around 20 AD. Built by Herod's son. Spent several months a few miles away, near Nazareth.
Don't recall any hoop houses there.PAHS works. Bury it.
I recall eisenglas panes in woodstoves we depended on when i was a little kid, but i couldn't imagine how that material (mica) could be made thin enough to transmit enough light for growing. It's also used in those Arts and Crafts lamp shades, where it is still amber, on the opaque end of translucent. I read the reference several times, actually, while reading about greenhouses - i devoured a few books this spring on the subject. The authors always just said it was 'difficult',but gave no description of how they even knew this detail. One of those things to put on the list to track down and verify....If you were in the Galilee, you should have stopped to see David Ring. Do you know him from Knots? He was engaged in a huge project, last i checked in (some time ago, shipping the pieces from Israel to NYC for installation. Now that's 'custom'! So you're saying a concrete hoophouse would be a smart 'legacy' move for me?
If you were in the Galilee, you should have stopped to see David Ring. Do you know him from Knots?
That wasn't quite Tiberius' era, but not recent. Travelling around, I did ask about furniture-makers. Found few. Which made sense, considering the location. Real interesting part of the world, made a lot of people act strangely for quite awhile now. Sinai was my primary attraction.
Looked at Knots when I first came around. If I can say this politely, didn't like what I saw. Which surprised me, as I'd been part of a substantial woodworking community in Denver. Pretty tight. Competitive of course, but that's good.
A Denver acquaintance was making pieces for Saudi Arabia, furnishing a very large "house". Containers are hard on furniture. You take your commissions where you find them I guess. I once shipped a dining table from Denver to New Jersey.
Real happy to avoid that sort of thing. We chose this community, and this mountain, carefully. With an eye toward commissions. You've seen our place, intended to be my future shop. Good marketing. If I ever decide to.
Hoop houses probably do better with less concrete. Unless you decided to bury parts and try for warmer winters in there. Dirt's real cheap heat. Legacy... wonder how many will be sheltered here over the years. With the ever-present veggies.
Oh, here's a table that lives here:
PAHS works. Bury it.
I think David's been over there for 30 years or so, planning to retire to his native New York soon, or so he said at one time. I only know him from a few delightful exchanges in the Cafe, but he had a wonderful sense of que sera sera in the midst of a tense situation, probably aided greatly by his affection for Nasruddin stories we both enjoy. I was glad to gain some first-hand perspective of Israel unfilitered by the news, and not to have it arrive with a club. Another story.
If you showed up at Knots in 2003, that was when the political junkies were in full flower, me included. If you don't like that sort of thing, i can see you'd look elsewhere. I loved it and learned oodles. The Cafe used to be full of colorful characters, but few discussions go to 20 posts now. Lots of thin skin over there.
Now that's the oddest damn table you made...homage au poulet? How'd that happen? <LOL and GDR!>
The farthest i ever carted a piece of furniture involved two A&C-style couches and a trestle table from MT to Boston area, commissions for the nephew of the Clancy Bros. The -groupie thing worked for me pretty well in those days and i loved my tax-deductible vacations. Attended the Philly Folk Fest on one of those occasions.
Well, you've succeeded in reminding me why I never enjoyed Maugham. <G>
I have seen David's site before, didn't remember the name. First hand perspectives in Israel depend entirely on who you are talking with. 30 years in Israel to retire to New York makes no sense to me, but I sometimes do things that others wonder about.
Like that little table. We have very different styles. (Attached) BTW, clamping that table top was a challenge.
What I mostly noticed in Knots was misinformation that didn't seem to get corrected. Anything political I would have ignored. Wrong advice about working with wood is inexcusable. But not arguments I cared to engage in. Struck me as more reasonable to just leave it alone. Far as I could see, they'd never heard of Hoadley.
Who was the one presenter that all other presenters sat in on. That was a national conference at BYU, a hundred years ago, when his book was new.
BT seemed very different. When someone posed a wrong idea, it got challenged. Much healthier. PAHS works. Bury it.
Interesting bench.
How did you join the foot to the leg?
Seems like there would be some stress there.
Where're your garden pix? <G>
People who know some woodworking have often asked if it's really safe to sit on. "Some stress" is a real understatement. As it's a two-seater, plus sizes are directed elsewhere.
Two #20 biscuits per. Often under-appreciated. And I'm picky about brand. Waiting to see if Splintie notices what you missed in the photo.
That's hickory, sawn here, given reprieve from the shop stove.
Would have made good hoop house staves. For awhile.PAHS works. Bury it.
I'm suffering through garden withdraw!
First summer in our new house and no clear flat spot
to grow in :(
Making the best of it with a deck garden for now.
So I'll live vicariously off this thread for now. What did I miss?
If I had to guess, I'd say the seat is attached with
biscuits also. No sign of plugs, and it doesn't feel
like you cut in a shoulder.
Are you referencing the turner, Dale Nish?I guess we saw different parts of the elephant. I made my grand entrance in a nit-picky debate on M&T joinery. I made some light-hearted remark like "Just glue it already!" and got flayed, boiled in oil, etc. It was pretty fun, actually. I confess the intricacies of double bevels makes me yawn, but one person's misinformation is another's Holy Grail. I've sung the praises of poly glue for years. Others curse it. The readership of FWW is predominantly older professional men who woodwork as a hobby. Pretty generic bunch who eat up every reference to A&C and the Shakers and don't have to make a living at it. BT has a lot more 'practitioners', plus we're dealing with people's biggest investment instead of a hobby or luxury item. Climate matters greatly here, not there so much. Just three of the differences between the sites that i can see greatly influence the level of attention here. Rob Millard...he's a marvel over on Knots.I see Nakashima influences in your bench with a nod to Maloof in the heels. I found a pic of the couches i did. It's very straight-forward, just that i got all the practice making mortices and tenons a gal could ever want.
It's very straight-forward
No slope to that seat or back? I made a bunch of boxes that got upholstered parts, but the physiognomy was correct.
Even a few breakfast booths, unpadded, that were surprisingly comfortable to sit in for hours. Always wanted to do a plaster cast of posteriors- to get unupholstered chairs just right. No takers. I woulda done his and hers... often a substantial difference.
got flayed, boiled in oil, etc. It was pretty fun, actually
Oooookay, seems we just learned more about you than we expected.
Dale was the host. You were among the hordes? Major event, folks from all over. I spent the first half in total depression, awe. Fortunately my mentor was there to give me some perspective.
Never knew Nakashima other than print. Maloof, I've had dinner with. Inspirational to say the least.
My glue preferences are traditional. The horse-breeders here found my foul-smelling glue pot hilarious, after I explained what it was. Repairing a very large houseful of English furniture their Chicago designers had travelled to select. Wasn't accustomed to their central heat and air conditioning.
They never put in a hoop house, but I did build some small (4'x8') cold frames for the kitchen garden. Which was tended by the professional gardeners.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I've never seen a Mission-style sofa with a sloped back. The wife had some Indian fabric in mind for the cushions she was having made, so my part was just to build something to hold them. I assumed she met feather not dot, but i could have been wrong... Anyway, that inspired the decorations in the front stretcher. No, i never attended a Nish seminar, just helped make him fabulously wealthy buying the books, LOL. So what thing did i miss on your chair? Biscuits??? I'd say YOU are the adventurous one, not me. PS: Love the pin-ups for Lola. Would that be Kitty P-orn?
Edited 7/4/2008 2:50 am by splintergroupie
That get-together was way beyond a Nish seminar, but he was one of the maybe 25 presenters. Including Will Malloff. It was set up so you couldn't catch everybody's spiel, had to pick and choose.
Tradition ain't everything, especially when you want to sit. My backs all angled (inside, not outside), as did the seats. Not apparent visually, huge difference to the sitter. Not that comfort is always desired, for instance 5 minute chairs for in front of the desk.
Those days, a "decorator" was providing a large % of my commissions. She'd take her client furniture shopping. End of the day they'd visit me if I had a piece almost ready for delivery.
One generously proportioned woman plopped into a too-small-for-her chair, wiggled around and ordered a whole set. Best thing she'd sat in all day. I asked about her husband and tactfully explained that their chairs would fit better. Again, no plaster casts.
PS: Love the pin-ups for Lola. Would that be Kitty P-orn?
Now you're real close! It's a blue refrigerator. I swear I offered to buy whatever color was preferred. The way DW tells it, the choices were Caterpillar yellow or Oldsmobile blue (what I had on hand). Came out surprisingly well, covered that avocado paint just fine. Hey, it was free... almost
Went to a new home after I tested it with a Kill-A-Watt.PAHS works. Bury it.
Ya, i did notice the blue refrigerator, but i just consider it fairly normal to paint large appliances, LOL. A friend of mine had one of those bathtub and appliance refinishing businesses ("Miracle Method" - hokey name, for sure), and i used to use his shop for spray finishing before i had my own set-up. And my hoop-rainbow? Yeah, sometimes you just can't accept off-the-shelf. I refinished a bathtub with Ford White - looked and worked fine, but it was a no-Brillo zone after that.
Ever use webbing spray? I did my 'digital' bathroom in it, black web on white paint. No, i don't have any pics of that, but it looked great with the 1" B&W tiled tub surround. I also did my file cabinet in blue with black webbing, but i tried taking a pic and it's all blurry, like my morning glory shots. Time to get out the camera instructions...
I just read about your Kill-o-watt. The decibelometer, View Image, is what i use to monitor my fridge. I'd pay more for quiet.
Re furniture...i'm not much stuck on tradition, but those couches are so generously proportioned that to put a sloping seat/back on it would make it just about impossible to get out of, as well as not making it as comfortable to use like a chaise longe, propped up against the arm. Sloping arms i could live with, but it would be harder to balance the coffee cup.
Funny part is, the woman sent me a "Norm" video of this to show what she wanted. Thank-you, Norm...though i didn't use the sheetrock screws as you did. <G>
Quiet is good. One thing I screwed up here.
No utility room, so my air system is white noise. At least it minimized the refrigerator. Which is minimal compared to the heat pump water heater. I spend a lot of time outside anyway.
Next house gets both a utility room and a refrigerator compressor in the garage. On the other side of a concrete wall from the rest of the house.
Webbing spray I've not encountered.
a sloping seat/back on it would make it just about impossible to get out of,
It's a matter of degree, you know that. Not extremes. My clients weren't spring chickens. Never a problem. Whereas sloping arms often are.PAHS works. Bury it.
It's not just degree, but the sheer size of the thing. Short-arses like me have to use a pillow behind the back just to be able to put feet on the floor. Those were big enough to be used for extra company.I just thought of making a lady-sized Mission sofa...never seen one, but i like the concept.Quiet...i've been trying to imagine if your hard concrete-and-steel surfaces make sound travel in your house or if the mass dampens it. ???
Hard surfaces reflect. Furniture is necessary. OTOH, we hear about nothing from outside.
Played around with speakers, trying to find a good spot. The results amazed me. Nothing like I'd expected. High and far apart, which usually sounds horrible. Pointed toward the front of the house, with rising ceiling. The symphony never sounded as good before. Currently Scheherazade. What a story...
Any reason why custom furniture shouldn't match the customer's size? Seemed important to me and mine. The world is full of less-than-comfortable seats. PAHS works. Bury it.
Comfort is important until you develop an outsized ego. I read FLWright wouldn't even let his customers put up family photos without his consent. Less-than-comfortable seats...well, someone has to suffer for Art!
I did some beet-green boiling today, getting a start on next winter's provisions. The squash are running roughshod over the tomatoes, but the onions have finally stopped complaining now i've pulled the spinach out of their way. Lettuce leaves look like something out of the seas where the Russians dump their nuclear waste. Beans...man, is that ever gonna to be a time-sucker....
Speaking of comfort....i just heard from a close friend whose cat was in hospice care until she decided to send him to another vet who found a mouthful of abcessed teeth. After some dental triage he's on canned cat food, but gaining weight back. I can't imagine the pain he was in.
That's a vet who oughta lose a license. Can't be simple ignorance, like the ones who gave us wrong advice on copperhead toxin.
Which did bring Lola into our lives. She's a real mountain kitty. Outside last night as usual, fierce thunderstorm (if only an inch of rain). She bounced in this morning soaked, unperturbed. Enjoyed my towelling her down. Ate, went back out, got wet and towelled again.
Still sometimes looks up wistfully at the bar joists. Routes no longer available.
I know your potatoes didn't progress to the point of real identity, but do you have any idea if potatoes in general like living with squash? I've never bothered to plant any, always thanked for hauling off someone else's excess.
So now I've got 2 squash plants of some sort popping out of the potato hill. Apparently seeds that I composted last year. Hasn't happened before. Like most things here, I figured to leave them alone, see what they produce. Pollination sure won't be an issue.
Finally removed my forest of bolted arugula, cilantro, and lettuces. Laying the plants on top of the tomato cages to broadcast at their leisure. As most of my tomatoes are volunteer, some haven't made it to the top of the 5' cages. Others, already 2' above. That's as high as they go, about to sprawl. Entertwined with snow peas, both producing nicely. Now the tomatoes that were hindered by the greens will really take off. A shot of compost helps. Rain was just the ticket.
On intaglio's advice, I mulched my potato hills with weeds. Am always careful to uproot before they go to seed. Better be some potatoes down there. I'm unaccustomed to doing this much nuturing. Spreading compost is about all I ever do.
Which is carrying us with lettuces, arugula, and cilantro that got seeded through the compost. Both on a new bulb bed, and with the potatoes. A few more weeks and there'll be a new crop under the tomatoes, which won't mind as they'll be so tall.
As my manure pile has already been used for 2 composting cycles, and everything's growing nicely, I'll use it again. But I'm going to be doing a lot of looking before hauling the next truckload here. More to fear than just horse wormers. I may have to check back in with the soil group, see if they have any good ideas.PAHS works. Bury it.
I can't see growing potatoes and squash in the same area. The squash are sure to out-compete the spuds. I have to be ruthless trimming them back in the HH. I just spent the morning tying them up to the ribs...that was a very bad idea i had! Good for the squash, but it's actually getting shady on that side of the HH. Hand pollination seems to be working, though i notice more insects in there now, mostly butterflies. I wonder if they're drawn to the rainbow-colored ribs. Picked another huge bowl of basil, but i'm out of pine nuts so it'll just get pulverized and preserved in olive oil. More beet greens to steam and freeze today. I was drying cabbage leaves on the fence outdoors, but the grasshopppers struck and i had to throw them out. Solar dehyrator moved up the list.
Lots of solar stuff available. This is interesting if you'd like to avoid heating your kitchen: http://www.solarcooking.org/plans/funnel.htm
I gotta see this squash dominate there to believe it. The potatoes were already 3' tall before the squash showed up. Moved into the aisle, the only sun available. I'd planted the spuds in straight compost. They liked it.PAHS works. Bury it.
The solar cooking is a little more challenge than i have in mind. The microwave oven was invented for cooks like me. Just made another basil pesto mesto. What i need is a solar-operated maid service.Your potatoes have a head start, but i'll take long odds on the squash, still. I'll be having nightmares about hacking my way through a butternut jungle...
Found some interesting denizens of the treetops today, which explain where the aphids went. I pulled this photo off the Net, but does anyone wish to take a guess at whom i'm thanking today for aphid patrol? Hint: it's not the company i paid $27 for lacewing eggs.
View Image
Edited 7/5/2008 4:33 pm by splintergroupie
No chance-takers on the aphid killer ID??That's a ladybug larva. Once i banned the ants from the trees with Tanglefoot, the ladybugs found the aphids, ate some, then laid their eggs. The larvae are doing quite well and appear to be responsible for the rapid aphid depopulation. I'd never seen them before. Ah...playing Goddess v. Mother Nature...i wonder how this is going to boomerang. <G>
How big is that little monster? Looks awful similiar to these creepy things falling out of the trees onto my canopy top this last weekend (arts & crafts show).....they left greenish stuff if they were squished....or even dropped it from high up in the tree....well, Something was up there dropping it....
Those ladybug larvae are only about a quarter-inch long. Like a lady beetle, if you get one on your hand, they prefer traipsing across skin to getting back on a leaf. They don't seem real good at hanging on to stuff, so maybe they prefer my hand for all its craggy surface, LOL. I didn't see great gobs of poo left behind; what i take to be their waste looks brown, not green, though it might have oxidized in the air.
Speaking of green goo, i pulled a yelping dog out of the pond at 6:30 this morning. (Yeah, i got distracted with my kitchen project and it started going green.) The pond is too shallow for Reese's to be in danger of drowning, but he was too frail to lift himself out after falling in so he was quite frantic. I took him into the bathtub to warm him up and render him presentable again - he was too weak to stand. I've been bawling all morning, knowing he's coming close to his end. I'm going to bail out the pond (as soon as it warms up outside) until i can devote myself to finishing it and putting a fence around to keep my blind buddies safe.
Could be the same critter....these would't let loose of the tarps easily, and yes, the green was more toward the muddy color... If they were ladybugs, I feel less justified in being mad at them....
Can't you make a wading end to your pool, with lots of sand, for kids like Reese's?
Hey, there you are! We got almond Q's!!!Sand wouldn't hold, just level out, but i thought about making a ramp with cleats for traction, like i had for the spaniel whose legs couldn't do stairs anymore, and sticking it diagonally in there. I'm pretty sure he couldn't have gotten out then even. He couldn't walk up the steps into the house, once i hauled him out, so i had to carry him into the tub to get warm. I called him over there by the pond today....he wouldn't come near...good sign! I'm pretty sure he just leaned over to get a drink and didn't realize how far down the water was, then his legs buckled and he toppled in. I've seen him go almost head-over in his food bowl; i suppose i should make a stand for that so he doesn't have to bend. The thing is...he has fresh water, but prefers the green stuff!The ladybugs larvae have a variety of patterns, but they all feature that matte black and orangey-red, like their beetle colors, but the patterns vary between varieties. They - or something - sure cleaned out the aphids in a jiffy. No sign of any lacewings, of course. <pout>You had great weather for the show, eh?
These little things were black with little bits of color...and almost spiny in a very small way. Must have been a hatchout in the large tree I was under.
Almonds....depends on the pasteurization method used by that particular supplier of almonds. I spoke with the supplier I buy from long enough to feel confident in their method...and I'd not call them 'cooked'...believe she was going to do germination tests. But I stocked up last year before the law went into effect. In essence, it would clean them up a little, take away some of the bitter. I usually rinse and scrub between my hands a little. Time consuming to take off the skin, tho....If you soaked them long enough, you might not need to bother, for pesto.
I have a little tub of water I keep filled by my garden faucet...it turns green, and I can fill a watering can with it....I like the fact it has some nutrients in it, for the plants.
Heavenly weather for the show.....!
The ones i simmered slipped their skins pretty easily. I'll try just soakng then next time. My peppers just sat there for a month while everything else grew up around them (like those radishes). All of a sudden they've awakened and are starting to flower. I'm all primed for my first bell pepper and mayo sammich...
Way way back there was a post about stunted peppers never fully recovering. Seems to be another myth.....I had some so severely stunted seedlings I should have thrown them away (like 40 sprouts in a 3" pot)......but I set them out anyhow, and now they have caught up with the others. Seems watering and proper spacing did it.
Mighta been me and mine..I since fertilized with some boxed plant food..killed em good with that..bummer.
I still have a few producing , but all the first batch went belly up. I'll try for some pics tomorrow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
How do you do that preserving of basil in olive oil?I just dug new potatoes yesterday. MMM I planted them next to winter squash so that I could remove the potatoes and then let the squash take over. Obviously that wouldn't work to well with long season potatoes.
Roll those new potatoes in some olive oil, sprinkle with seasoned salt (Tony's) and bake 'em until they are crispy on the outside and like mashed on the inside. Ahiiii! Cest bon.KK
I packed the bowl of the processor* as full as i could with basil, poured in about a third of a cup each of oil and lemon juice (helps keep the color) and let 'er rip. I spooned the paste into cup-size containers and froze them. If i'd been thinking, i'd have added the garlic at that stage, too. I tasted the paste and it's fairly bitter, so i'd have to blend it again with nuts in order to smooth it enough to enjoy it on pasta or bread.
You could also spoon it into baggies and flatten them, then freeze them. You can easily break off a chunk to use as a spice in soup or whatever. I've been doing this with the pesto (with nuts) that i made earlier: flatten about about a cup of it in a quart freezer bag, flatten and fold over. You can remove half at a time easily, which flavors enough pasta for two.
*I've had a few processors and i can't say enough lovely things about the big Kitchen Aid i finally splurged on.
Nice. I like the idea of having frozen pesto or even partial pesto.Don't know why, but I prefer making it with walnuts over pine nuts even though I could go pick pinon nuts most years if I paid attention to the timing.
I haven't tried it with walnuts, but i was fixing to, and i've also read that hazelnuts are good. I actually like it better with almonds than with pine nuts. I tried just processing almonds from the bag, but the texture and taste were better when i simmered the almonds a little bit and slipped their skins off. The almonds were softer so they blended up better. I preferred the almond taste a little to the piney taste, though both are good. I was really surprised how much the addition of the lemon juice improved it, so i used quite a lot. I have some shallots soon...i'll try those in place of the garlic on a new batch. I cut the basil just a couple inches from the ground...i'll be harvesting more in about two days...sheesh...
We've never tried almonds, although they are a favorite for various other things.Are you growing your basil by broadcasting in a bed in your HH?I have basil outside, but it seems to get bitter quickly and to form rather more pointed leaves with harder edges in many of the sunnier places I've planted it. I also keep one or two pots of basil growing indoors most of the time. I'm finding that I have quite a ways to go when it comes to getting the proper amounts of basil, garlic, tomato, onion, and peppers to be ready and usable at the same time for me to can pasta sauce. Oh well, this is only my second year at working toward a goal of producing the bulk of our year round food. A friend has noted that "the three year plan" always takes at least five years.
I started the basil indoors on March 29. I planted it in the HH on May 17 or so, shortly after finishing the drip system. It's not bitter, not like old lettuce gets, just a basil-y flavor that is rather pungent. Of course, there are lots of varieties of basil to experiment with. Now i know it can be done, i will!
I've never had luck growing it outdoors here, either. It sulks, then bolts. I don't think i ever got more than a few leaves from a plant before it was unusable. By contrast, i planted about ten plants in the HH and have filled that big red bowl in the earlier picture at least ten times with it. I tried placing it mid-row and another group at the end panel to get more light. It did much better mid-row than fully exposed.
When i do it again, i'll choose a less-sunny period to plant so it doesn't sunburn like it did. Right after i planted this year the temps went very high, but next year i'll also be able to plant earlier. I've planted peas as early as April 1 in the old HH.
I have a few tomato plants that have leaves turning yellow with brown spots. Some of them have already set some fruit, but no growth is taking place and the plants are failing. These plants are in a bed with many other tomato plants which are doing very well. I don't see any sign of bugs.The two that looked the worst I pulled and threw out. Anybody know anything about this malady?
I use Google Images a lot for diagnosing ills. (I just used it to diagnose what i believe is fire blight in my pear, *sniff*.)I typed in <<tomato diseases yellow leaves brown spots>> and this looked like a good page to start from. You have lots of choices of maladies, unfortunately, but the pix help:http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/05-069.htm
More pics from Notchman, who is busy roofing his parrot mansion and NOT gardening enough, obviously! <G>
Squatters, aka Free-bees, who took up residence in...on...under...an old hive that had lost its residents. View Image
The Oregon Weave, with Red Draperies:View Image
Green machines:View Image
Himalaya blackberries...bec they're there...View Image
Edited 7/8/2008 1:14 pm by splintergroupie
Squatters, aka Free-bees, who took up residence in...on...under...an old hive that had lost its residents
I can remember seeing a nature program about a Buddist? monk in Japan who would set up hives each year and get the wild bees to move in. He used some special flower that had an odor that the bees disliked. So the bees would attack, attack, the flower. Get tired and just sorta move into the hive next to it.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
Sorry, John, i missed this post earlier.
It's an interesting ploy to become fertilized, from the flower's viewpoint, to irritate the bees into pollinating it, when all the other flowers are trying to make nice.
Reminds one of human relationships more and more!
They's all kinds of deals...
It's an interesting ploy to become fertilized, from the flower's viewpoint, to irritate the bees into pollinating it, when all the other flowers are trying to make nice.
IIRC, the flower gave off a smell of one of the bee's natural enemies. The bees tear the heck out of the flower, but I suppose you're right...it is how the flower pollinates. The nature program was primarily about giant hornets in Japan. Might have been Discovery channel, but I'm not sure.
Looks like you need a bigger hoop house. If this keeps up, you're going to need to sell your surplus at the farmers market.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
As soon as i get that beeyooteeful tiller* from IBEW Chuck, i'll be breaking ground on a new plot for a second hoophouse for next year. The squash and tomatoes aren't as affected by the hoppers, so i'll move them - or at least the squash - out of the present HH, which i'll then use just for things that don't need pollinating, like cabbage and root crops, and stuff that is self-fertile, like legumes and peppers/eggplant types. I can then keep the present HH's doors shut against the bugs, with shade cloth for ventilation.
The second HH will start off like this one to get a head start on the season, but i'll remove the plastic when the weather clears and let the pollinators get to them more easily...and give them room to grow. I have to go out every morning to trim and tie them up - too laborious.
I was thinking of making a perimeter fence around the outside of the plot about 6' tall to keep most of the grasshoppers at bay, combined with more biologicals.
For the first time ever, i'm hoping for -30* this winter! >:(
*I'm picking it up at Peachfest with my Tacoma, is the latest plan. Chuck's bringing it from KC - ain't he just the beans?!?!?!?
I just discovered the JOY of SPROUTED almonds..YUMMY. Not really with the green leg, but soft ( good for britle teeth) and raw.
Our local health food joint has em, I forget the cost, but worth anything.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Are those raw almonds? Intaglio and i were discussing that subject and she told me they are all pasteurized now...i THINK that's what she said. Sprouted how? Do they have the skins on? Again, Intaglio told me the skins are the bitter part. When i did the pesto with the skinned almonds, it was smooth and tasty, no bitterness. When i did them with hard, skin-on almonds before, it was so gritty that i didn't notice if it were bitter...busy grinding, i was.
Yup raw, skins on, but they come off easy.
I don'thave a clue how they are sprouted,I'll ask when I go back.
Any idea how to plant Cherry pits for future trees? Feed em to a bird first? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
You can easily 'sprout' them yourself (altho almonds don't technically make a sprout....takes over a week to even start). Just soak overnight, then rinse, and put in a sprouting jar...or start eating! I've often soaked them and rinsed, then stored them in fridge (or coolers when I travel). Much softer, and healthier, too!
I tried telling my wife that..but "No, these are better" so I go along..(G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Looks like I have lots of research to do. Next year's comin'
Have we convinced you to hoop it up? <G>
None of my pesto recipes call for lemon juice......I do have a cilantro pesto recipe....and others. So decided it's just a way to preserve any flavorful green in olive oil. Chopped a huge bowl of wild arugula, some pigweed and lamb's quarter, and will grind almonds in the Moulinex (coffee grinder).....then mix it all in my miniature Cuisinart MiniPrep....hard part is finding enough garlic this time of year in the garden.
Last week I used the almond pulp left over from making almond milk, with arugula...had a cheesey flavor. Never made it to the freezer....
(I can post, but my email refuses to work today)
Girlfriend, you need a Kitchen Aid food processor!
Didn't get very far in my pesto-making before I remembered I was slightly disappointed in frozen pesto last year....and didn't have enough basil to flavor all that arugula anyhow! So made one little batch for fresh use......pesto seems to go with the summer season best of all. Tried the lemon juice, it works well to cover any bitter from less-than-perfect olive oil.
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The hugelkultur squash are overtaking the cabbage rows 3' away. This Gold Nugget was so pretty, and is the earliest fruit, on bush plants (the other varieties are running madly about, without producing fruit yet. Even acorn and sweet dumpling are huge plants this year...I expect the hugelkultur has something to do with it.) The Gold Nugget was touted as a sweet potato substitute for short season areas.
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View Image
Edited 7/10/2008 3:51 am ET by intaglio
<< This Gold Nugget...is the earliest fruit...>>I googled Gold Nugget....isn't that a winter squash? Are you using it like a summer squash? Nice pics...i have zucchini envy. I planted one at the base of one of the tree drippers and it's barely putting along.All: Intaglio turned me on to the idea of eating Acorn Squash when they are immature and still light green. It is quite a taste treat. I'm OK with summer squash, but not completely satisfied at how watery they can be. The young acorns are sweet, firm, with edible skins and seeds at that stage, combining the best aspects of both summer and winter squash.
Spastic plastic...I looked the HH over hard yesterday for signs of splitting plastic since i had to repair a tear a few days ago. Sure enough, it was tearing in lots of little places. The good news is that it wasn't just on the ribs, ruling out a chemical reaction between the PVC and PE, as i'd feared. No, i appears this plastic was not treated properly to be UV resistant, though it was sold as such. I'd purchased the exact same kind and brand of plastic for the last HH, which lasted a minimum of a year, at HD before. In fact, the end panels on this HH are from the last plastic i put up in early 2007 and it is still tough, hard to tear, while the plastic that's less than 2 months old can be torn as easily today as a sheet of stationary. If we'd had a big wind the last few days, i'd have been retrieving it from the neighbor's field.I replaced it this morning with the remainder of the 100' roll i'd bought for $80. I've also been googling for shade cloth and can buy enough to cover 1000 s.f. for about $165, so i'll do that and remove this plastic when it comes. I'll alleviate my venting problems that way, as well. It means i'll have to do the switch twice a year, but i found it went pretty smoothly this morning at 5:30.(No laughing!) There was no breeze to help me fly the sheet over like in May, but i still managed to do the job start-to-finish in less than two hours. I could get it down to an hour if i laid out my tools ahead of time! :^/ I'm going to buy some regular greenhouse-quality, scrim-filled film. Even if it wears, the plastic won't rip off in a long seam. I'm betting the quality control is going to be better since it's warranted for a minimum of 4 years.And now i'm going to go back to bed and get up at a reasonable hour.
Country of origin for the plastic?
Not that they don't lie sometimes. The factory where I once worked had 3 different languages/locations they used, depending on where the plastic was headed. Your product came out of a machine that needed maintenance. Undoubtedly got it shortly after yours was formed. Those spots make maintaining the balloon difficult.
Or possibly HD's buying seconds. As you observed, you've more than a UV problem.
At least you got your day off to a flying start...PAHS works. Bury it.
<<3 different languages/locations they used, depending on where the plastic was headed>>Very interesting...I'll look for country-of-origin next time i go to HD since i destroyed the original box when i took the full roll out, but i wouldn't doubt your suspicions about why it failed. Previous editions of the same plastic were fine, though, so perhaps the speed at which building was going on for a while affected quality. I purchased the roll last year when buiding was still booming. If i'd just bought it, i'd be asking for a refund or replacement.It's odd, but when i fixed the original tear a few days ago, i looked the HH over and couldn't find a generalized failure, though i noticed the west side seemed a little 'spongier' than the east side. Just a couple more days and the plastic was disintegrating all over, though the west side was worse. I got up from my nap to find the wind blowing like normal after an unusually calm string of hot days. If i hadn't changed it this morning, i'd be very sorry! Unlucky in plastic, lucky in timing. <G>The funny part about changing the cover: in the very short amount of time the cover was off, the squash that are tied on the ribs had pushed their leaves about a foot out past their hoops. I had to do some trimming to get them back in their cage so i could pull the cover tight! If it weren't for the damnedable grasshoppers, i would have loved to let them go...
Your HH is now protection from grasshoppers?
Life really is easy here... Bugs pollinate, no frost until near Nov. Mostly I harvest, and pile compost. New crop of something getting going. Hard to tell what yet, but it's gonna be a bumper. Broadcast compost to keep everybody happy.
Potatoes are holding their own against the unknown squash, for now. Large blossoms, should learn soon what it is. Seems to me that a little competition is good. Snow peas/tomatoes are doing well with it. If difficult to find the peas.
Did learn that the .32 rifle I thought was coming my way, isn't. But I did my good deed. Spent nearly 2 hrs exploring housing options with a 95 yr old friend (who's short on cash). Not looking, just talking. Fortunately, substantial equity.PAHS works. Bury it.
<<Your HH is now protection from grasshoppers?>>That and cabbage moths. Grasshopper and snow-in-June protection were my main drivers for all this effort i put out this year. The hoppers have stipped all the alfalfa in the field. They're working on taking out my hollyhocks, glads, potatoes, morning glories, beans, etc. If i can keep things damp, they are less inclined, but that's pretty difficult with zero humidity, the wind blowing, and a sandy well. They only thing i haven't seen them devour so far are petunias and lilacs. Living here is decidedly not for the weak of will. I was on the phone with a friend last night whining about my plastic, my sandy well, the bad bugs, the lack of good bugs, the wind...I'm a first-class whiner once i get revved up. I'll be ready to sell once the market recovers and look for more friendly environs to gardeners. That or sink a new well. My neighbor to the east about 300 yards away gets 30 gpm of clean water. Harumph.Colleen Hussein Miller, Western MT, Western US, Western Hemisphere, Western End of the Solar System on the Western End of the Galaxy
"The hoppers have stripped all the alfalfa in the field. They're working on taking out my hollyhocks, glads, potatoes, morning glories, beans, etc."Who did you PO to get two years of "Plague of Locust"? <g>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
I'm about ready to go back to the Mormon Church!
It's not just my garden, though. A lot of folks seem to have resorted to sprays or given up. I've been using a grasshopper bait, sparingly, in the aisles in the HH and on the ornamentals. It doesn't seem to stop the numbers of them, but they stop eating. It's certainly not organic, but without it i wouldn't have anything left.
OTOH, i never did follow up on the Nolo bait...uhmm.....
I took some grasshopper pics. I didn't water the potato patch earlier bec it was windy, so they started in on what's managed to emerge above ground.
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The pic taken of the grasshoppers on the greenhouse trellis shows three. What you don't see in the washed out portion at the top left is the other two...and that's the inside...the outside just erupts in hoppers as you walk...
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Edited 7/10/2008 11:05 pm by splintergroupie
Here's one more 'overview' pic. It's impossible to walk through now without breaking stems. A victim of my own success...
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Edited 7/10/2008 11:28 pm by splintergroupie
I presume you know that grasshoppers look like a nice dinner sidedish in parts of the world. Used to catch them here for fish bait, never failed.
Nice to see you had a potato response. Mine aren't looking very happy since I hilled them.
BTW, 300 yds waterline trenching there would be real easy. If your neighbors were amenable. Mine's 250 yds, through rock.PAHS works. Bury it.
Hey, come over here and put in a ground source heat pump for me, wouldja???
A few grasshoppers get lost to the cats around here, but i guess i should have been using catfish...
Visit a western honey or two? Sure, if you've got that trencher. Doesn't live here... yet. I know, if you had the trencher I'd be superfluous. <G>
Looked for it in Michigan my last trip. It wasn't where I was.
Bass and brim I found partial to grasshoppers. Rental house, farm pond, lots of brim fillets. One of the reasons Bertha still lives here. I also learned that when cats gorge on fish parts you really want to keep them outside for awhile...
I expect a trout would get excited. You do have trout somewhere out there? They need cold water, but you could start fish-farming something warmer, seeing as you already have an abundance free food. Probably need to enlarge that pool a tad.
PAHS works. Bury it.
My vet friend keeps a trout pond, but has to feed them some. They do need very cold water and they do adore grasshoppers. When i was a kid, i was taught to thread grasshoppers and worms (sorry!) on a hook. Could be i was a latent veg already, because i never took to it.
I could keep trout in the pond by cycling water daily, but i expect i'd spend a goodly amount of time herding hoppers toward them. I kinda like the idea of an ambulatory grasshopper-killer, so chix are still higher on the pecking order than fish.
I really noticed a predilection for the hoppers to jump in this little pond, though...or maybe it's just a variation on a million monkeys sitting at a typewriter. Since i wasn't pumping daily, it was getting to look like Sphere's pond with all the 'nutrients'. The dog falling in sort of forced the issue of when i would deal with it instead of calling it an 'experiment'.
It gave me the idea that i could build a moat around the garden à la Leiningen. Kids in future generations would be forced to write high schools essays drawing moral conclusions about Miller v. the Grasshoppers. Unfortunately, i'd need Bertha to flatten some ground for me for that to work.
Chickens likeView Image woodworking too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Budweiser?
That could get you a time-out you know.PAHS works. Bury it.
My scrapping days, folks liked to toss garbage out at the goats, they actually though they ate cans, I found he boxes handy, if not rude.
At that time ( circa '95) I was brewing my own, just to the left of that photo. see the goat hoof trimmers on the far wall? Frigging razor sharp they were, I almost ost a finger ( hell my typing looks like I did) with them bad mongers.
That was my "shop" an enclosed carport. after the SHOP burnt down..not some of my happierdays.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
see the goat hoof trimmers on the far wall?
Those the ones that look a little like garden shears, but with a large spring?
Once knew a woman in Alabama who kept, or tried to keep, untethered goats. Containing them was more effort than I was inclined to exert.PAHS works. Bury it.
Yup. 44.00 of super stain;ess steel..kept away from kids ( both kinds)..
Awe hell, I gotta go get pics of my garden, i can't beat Colleen, YET,,we's slower here. Way behind for this time of yr. One guy just got his tobacco in about a week ago, I've seen harvest by now/
Kathy's shop flooded, AC drains into a well..I have to go investgate, down town has gotten bad, not a good place for a shop any more.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Kathy's shop flooded, AC drains into a well..I have to go investgate, down town has gotten bad, not a good place for a shop any more.
Richmond has enough downtown to go bad? OTOH, music stores often thrive in near-slums. Blues musicians and all ... Probably not so good for brass and woodwinds.
The reputed best in Richmond, Va, (Metro) is in a neighborhood that you probably want to avoid after dark. Well, depending on what your intentions were. They carried Gibson-branded sunglasses for us briefly.
Good luck to Kathy.
Who doesn't have a hoophouse, far as I know.PAHS works. Bury it.
Yer Epilogues of hoop house threaded nature are a hoot..thnx.
Well, the LL ords of a well respected ( cuz it was the ONLY respected) restaraunt / bar foreclosed his drunken #### and caused a "cease and desist" and a "Stay away" ( damm I;m getting als..that thing where ya gotta stay away from someone)
And Woody ( the person who has the bar) is royally screwed, he went on a drunken binge and trashed the biz..coke, whores, GUY Hores, and just nasty stuff..right next door to you know who..so with my wife being chummy w/him ( I do not know why) and the Arts Council Dinners they catered, I some how got into the basement at the Music store..
cripes, if I get broker, I may have to sell myself into that scene..akin to being an IKEA rep. Wholesale Duane.
still no hoops here, just circles of ambiguity. And Spheres of light.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
If the water got deep enough down there, tell Kathy my spare Unisaw's still available. Hey, you could pick it up when you come for that rock and the wood-fired boiler.
still no hoops here, just circles of ambiguity. And Spheres of light.
Ambiguous circles, you say... As in hoops... Or as Bo says "To build a symbol, hire a sculptor". http://www.midcoast.com/~bo/ringforcement.html
He might have a hoop house. Or thought he had one after that excavator bucket smacked him upside the head last summer. He was running in circles long before that.
PAHS works. Bury it.
LOL I KNEW I loved you like a bother ( I mean BRother, really)..cool, I think I still have a Spi-ro-graph around here somewhere..didja ever notice you couldn't make the same thing twice? Like sno-flakes ( my other Manna)..irrepeatable.
Ok, gimme a leg up on an arc tangent question I have in Gen.Disc. I have an anser in my head, I need back up before I shoot a 20' pc of wood into bits and triangle waste blocks for a wood heater that don't exist yet..
LOL'
I love ya Tom..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
IIRC, you once mass-produced snowflakes. Littered the southern countryside with them.
Oh, man. You want me to think? What happened to just being decorative?
BTW, watch out in Bo's site. It's huge, you can get lost in there ... Believe he's even got a link to my place.
HEY! Check out these new taters... (maybe) which aren't from a hoop house.PAHS works. Bury it.
Them look like my garlic, I pulled it all and ants got there first.
I haven't looked at the peppers yet,i have a feeling, it ain;t goodSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Check out these new taters
Gonna need a mess of them to fill a pot.jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
What a mind!
I'm thinking of the possibilities of all the coils of old barbed wire that the ranchers leave hung on fenceposts along the road. There's only so many faux-cowboy ugly craft items one can make of rusty wire...
It's a girl! 9 ounces, 6-3/4"!
I've had variable luck with my hand-pollinating and got really engrossed the last couple days with finishing my kitchen project (who am i kidding?), so i decided that the small-flowered things like cants and cukes were on their own. Frankly i wasn't expecting any harvest from them, but i was trimming the cukes back so the peppers wouldn't be overwhelmed and found her hanging out in the cool undergrowth keeping company with one of the resident toads.
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The second photo is one sent me by my vet buddy, taken this morning, of the Como Peaks of the Bitterroot Mtn. Rng. to the west. Too perfect, eh?
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Edited 7/13/2008 3:18 pm by splintergroupie
The second photo is one sent me by my vet buddy, taken this morning, of the Como Peaks of the Bitterroot Mtn. Rng. to the west. Too perfect, eh?
That would make a neat jigsaw puzzle.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I scaled that one for the forum. I'll attach the larger version....and a bonus!When he's not doing the S/N clinics, the vet, Alan, is big on hiking; a couple times during the summer he sends a slide show that knocks my socks off of some high-mountain jaunt. They aren't technical climbs, either. He and his wife, both kinda plump, take the pack of dogs and just head out. They both have legs that look more like burled tree trunks...huge, huge calf muscles.
Lends itself to filtering.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
HAH! I'll send those back to the vet. It'll be interesting to see if he's fussed or thinks it's cool. I'm guessing the latter. What? No jigsaw overlay? <G>
Tiled close enough?jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
That would be MUCH harder to assemble, wouldn't it?
I decided to test the vinegar as a weed killer. As per Ma's instructions, I'm using the cheapest vinegar I could find (real cheap, I found it in her garage). I think she uses a garden sprayer, but I'm just using a spray bottle. Not diluting it. Straight vinegar (smelly stuff).
I've got two spots I'm keeping track of: around the mailbox and some grass coming up in a gravel border.
Sunday around 2-3PM, I spritzed the two areas. Then took pics again around the 48 hour mark (really more like 52 hour mark). Starting to get some brown around the edges, but hasn't killed the main plants yet. I went ahead and spritzed it again. I'll check again in a couple days.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
Edited 7/16/2008 10:54 am by JohnT8
I wonder if you have to reapply before the grass can rebound?Intaglio told me about using vinegar to try to change the shade of a hydrangea. More acidic soil gives bluer flowers, while alkaline gives pinker flowers. She poured it straight outta da bottle...killed it dead. Her grandma was not amused...Looking forward to more or your experiment...the price was certainly right! <G>
My celery is about 2' tall now and crowding the cukes, so i chopped a lot of the outside stalks and sent them though the slicing disc on the food processor last night. I filled seven dehydrator trays of my Siamese dehydrator and all but the two middle trays were dry in six hours. I took the dry trays out and left the other two trays in for another hour. The proceeds fill a can (3# coffee-can size) half full. Round #2 is starting now..
My dehydrator is the product of my finding an old, heat-only dehydrator at a flea market to start with (the black plastic unit). It had five trays and it worked, but oh-so-slowly.
Then i took a neighbor's fan-and-heat dehydrator for a spin (white unit) and found it not only worked much faster, but its four trays stacked on my other unit for a total of nine trays! I bought my own at Walmart for $40 - the only place i found a dehydrator in all of Missoula.
I use the heating element of the black unit on the bottom of the stack, then as many trays as i need, then the heat/fan element of the white unit to top it off. I've stacked nine trays of tomatoes to dry and it takes a bit more than overnight, or about 12 hours. With only a couple trays to finish off, i unplug the bottom unit; i've slightly melted a couple trays before i figured this out.
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Edited 7/16/2008 2:27 pm by splintergroupie
Regular vinegar is only 5% acidic.
10- 20% will kill weeds and whatever. Pete
Bo's a trip. Heed my warning to Sphere. Immense site. Whole lotta hoops in this thing:PAHS works. Bury it.
How much wood could a woodchick ...Dang, Duane, i thought EYE was the queen of shop funk!
Chickens like woodworking too.
I'm not loaning my tools to you. They'd come back with birdturds on 'em. jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
Kids in future generations would be forced to write high schools essays drawing moral conclusions about Miller v. the Grasshoppers. Unfortunately, i'd need Bertha to flatten some ground for me for that to work.
Ladyfire lives, with her brilliant observation.
Pales in comparison, but my HS senior paper was used for the next 2 decades as an example. To emulate, of course. Subject's everything, far as I can tell. Mine was Voodoo and Zombiism. Which I learned had nothing to do with each other, other than geography.
I digress.
Bertha's good at flattening things. Discovered a 2 dimensional mouse in the driveway last time I moved her. Otherwise, the driveway improvements came out great.
Our last close neighbor (not here- we have none) was an animal ethicist. Professional. Headed to Missoula last I knew. She relied on her hubby to deal with me, heathen that I am. He and I got along fine.
Maybe they have a hoop house there. PAHS works. Bury it.
I did a senior paper on how people will give various amounts of obedience depending on the uniform. Even meter readers can get strangers to pick stuff up off the ground, but a uniform with metal on it works better. It was 14 pages and i already had an "A" going. No wonder no one ever asked me to the Prom except for one Persian named Bijan who had a Karmann Ghia. That 2-D mouse could have been sent to McDesign's tile-making wife. Now that we've seen what she can do with grape leaves....Professional animal ethicists in Missoula!?!? At UM??? I know one there, but she's single and not looking. Do tell...
Professional animal ethicists in Missoula!?!? At UM??? I know one there, but she's single and not looking. Do tell...
Deborah? UM, 15 yrs ago offered her a tenure-track position. Big step up from whatever she had going on here. Deborah was at the time with Tony (a poet, fond of my beer). I was never convinced she wasn't a member of the sisters of the tarnished brooch. Not that I ever had any problem with that bunch.
D&T had a cat fond of beating up on my poor addled buddy Fleabag. I retaliated, like any good dad. Cats train well, you just have to work at it. Pretty sure Deborah saw one episode, wasn't sure which one. Continued to rely on my feeding their brood when they travelled, and found my cube van extremely attractive when they were organizing the Missoula move.
Wasn't overly surprised to never hear from them again. If you know her, tell her I'm unrepentant, remain a heathen. But I'd still get out an uncontaminated utensil for her to flip a veggie burger on my grill. So long as I didn't have to eat it.PAHS works. Bury it.
Well, that's one weird sister i haven't met yet in the AR world here. Odd, considering i've been in groups that worked on everything from crafting/passing legislation to trapping/circus/Petland protests to spay/neuter. I guess she was busy writing poems, too.
LOL... that was fun. You're some detective, after no surname offered.
You found this... well that won't work. Seem to have lost my Ctrl function with Lola's antics yesterday, combined with a substantial wine spill. Anyhow, I was going to ask if you found Deborah through the faculty directory, which lists her as Professor of Philosophy.
Did you read her "Your Daughter or Your Dog? A Feminist Assessment of the Animal Research Issue"?
And some rap sheet if you Scroogle her name. International Vegetarian Union? Stranger yet: Ph.D. UVa 1989, M.F.A. UVa 2000. 7 yrs after I thought they'd relocated to Missoula. No mention of Tony. Maybe a change of plan.
Missoula puts out an amazing amount of detailed info, but no real estate assessments. Sounds like a real white-bread community. Median income very comfortably affording the median house, 92.6% white non-hispanic.
Ecofeminism? Pretty sure we're both happier we're not neighbors now. 'Though there is an interesting couple down the road here. Faculty, used to be a hetero couple until he got fixed. Her and her now.
Fascinating house, including an Indian motorcycle. Bolts and rivets everywhere. Son named Lionel, after the trains that made the family fortune. They host political gatherings, that I avoid.
Half million dollar small pond out front, but no hoop house. PAHS works. Bury it.
Are they really squash?I'm thinking maybe you're working in the "Little Hoophouse of Horrors."When you enter the hoophouse on a quiet evening, take a listen: If you hear a little voice saying "feed me" you might be in luck....a way to get rid of any obnoxious neighbors.
You know what's really cool?? It's not apparent in the open air, but closed up inside like that in the morning, the squash flowers emit a lovely scent.
My pollination efforts have been paying off. I take the anther and stick it in the middle of the stigmata and leave it thar.
Remember the pic from a week ago? The 3-day old toddler?
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Another week and...
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"Feed me" is right....
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Edited 7/10/2008 10:58 pm by splintergroupie
Uh, girlfriend, you need woven greenhouse plastic.
To take these winds....headed your way. Tree limbs all over the roads, ambulances, fires....crazy out today.
I can hear the wind ramping up now. I just went out and closed the HH up and went looking for all the coco-fiber mats that used to be in front of the doors.
Yep, woven is the way to go, though there was something very wrong with this stuff i just took off (and replaced with the same, unfortunately).
I've found the 4-year stuff online, but i still have to look into the stuff John was talking about a ways back when he was looking into greenhouse structures and found 20-year plastic. I'm thinking i might be able to get 5 years out of it????? <G>
Stay safe...
Edited 7/10/2008 11:20 pm by splintergroupie
Anyone know the cause of this leaf coloration? Looks just like tomatoes do in FL when it's too hot. But I also thought perhaps soil deficiency..however, the NPK test came out fine. Oddly, the peppers look healthy, just affecting tomatillos & eggplants, not the tomatoes or peppers. Cucumbers show a little....all these are on the south side where sun burns thru a little hotter.
This is in my little greenhouse. Leaves in shade also have it, so sun on wet leaves can't be the cause. Seems like heat stress. Might be time to put up the shade cloth.
I don't know for sure about the first pic, but the eggplant screams "spider mite".
Spider mites....are they invisible then?
Not to my eyes any more! I've seen very small red ones, but mostly they are diagnosed because of the generalized dull look and the webbing they form. I find that more frequent sprinkling keeps them at bay. When i see webbing on outdoor plants, i spray them well and pull all the webbing off.For instance, i have some forsythia outside the HH in a pot on which i've noticed some webbing, but inside my HH it's so humid that there's no sign of them. More info about control and habits: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/insect/05507.html
Try spraying them with a solution of Dr. Bronner's eucalyptus soap and water. We use it on various bugs by spraying from a hand sprayer. This year it really damped down the flea beetles that were attacking our broccoli. The picture you posted, was it some sort of squash or pumpkin?
The squash is Gold Nugget, a bush type...supposed to be a sweet potato substitute for northern gardens. The fruit are turning a darker orange/gold now. I'm also growing sweet taters this year, they are actually doing quite well (black plastic and row cover helps).
I'll try the herbal spray on those aphids...(just found they are ganging up on a nice new savoy cabbage)...have Dr Bronner's Almond flavor, but I'll add eucalyptus oil. Usually I just spray them hard with water til they are washed out to sea.
Yes, Gold Nugget is a winter squash....believe it's a maxima. (all I grow out here is pepo or maxima anyhow). I intend to let them mature instead of stealing the babies. Of course all baby squash are sweet and tender, but acorn is exceptional.
Peas: I planted a new sugar pod this year...Sugar Pod II(?)...but am disappointed...it's tough and not sweet like my old Sugar Snap. Huge difference, and easy to test as I walk down the row. Keep saving my own seed, but wonder if I can find the original SugarSnap seed in catalogs these days.
Original I wouldn't know, but have Burpee Sugar Snap "The Original Sugar Snap Pea", packed for 2007. I've been saving seed also. Why? Enough in this pack to take care of my needs for a year or two. LOL Yours if you want.
We're enjoying them daily. Delectable. One veggie I don't rely on volunteers. Somewhat overwhelmed by the tomatoes, but still producing nicely.
A little dark for potato photos. Tomorrow. Thank you for your concern.PAHS works. Bury it.
Well, NEXT year...i'll plant the peas indoors and hopefully get a few, so i'll remember to get Sugar Snap.
Here's some pics of the dome Growing Spaces greenhouse over in Helena, MT. I believe it is a 17' model. And with insulation in the north wall, an underground water storage tank heated with a solar panel, pipes to send warm air thru beds, it stays really warm on those cold days. The glazing is 5-wall polycarbonate. No plastic to flap in the wind, this thing is hunkered down for the storms. They should call them Living Spaces!
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Edited 7/12/2008 3:25 am ET by intaglio
Wow. A little fussy for my taste, but...
Let's see, door's open for the pollinators. But the spear-tipped gate? Keeping the cabbages from escaping? PAHS works. Bury it.
I have a Star Plate connector kit I've never used, and thought of making a greenhouse along those lines, with plastic, double layered. Then if I placed it outside the garden fence, I'd need a way to keep deer from walking in...so I guess that's what the spear-tipped gate is for!
Might be nice enough in that one, with insulation, to paint in.
Scott's place is gorgeous, but i'm wondering how that wood's going to look in a couple years. It looks like the planter boxes are lined with something...metal? I wonder what he does about drainage/frost heave. Pretty slick having the pump right inside the growing space.
Any idea what he's spent on it so far?
Hi, I have sure been enjoying watching your hoophouse develop. Looks outstanding. Good question on how the dome's wood'll look in a few years. Beds are a recycled cedar phone pole with fir on the front edges, everything soaked in linseed oil. Dome wall and bed edges are on raised gravel beds. No frost heave in winter one but who knows.Thanks for sharing your hoop adventure, I might have to build one of them next.
Edited 7/14/2008 12:06 am ET by toyguy
Hey, nice to see you here! Thanks for the explanation on the telephone poles. I thought those were treated with nasty stuff, though...? Are the cedar ones not treated? Where do you find them?I've been watching my brussels sprouts follow in your BS's footstep. Isn't it extraordinary what a little shelter from the elements and regular water can accomplish? I got to repair one of your dragons whose wing had been broken by a 3 y.o. I was telling myself jokes about dovetailed wings...funnier then perhaps. I 'stored' it for several years until the kid was a little less dangerous.
Poles were butt treated with creasote. The guys taking them out just chainsawed em off above grade though. Just a bit to cut off to lose the bad stuff. One had a tag, placed in 1915. Fair amount of checking but 100 bf from one pole.They were taking the poles out in my neighborhood and hauling em to the dump. I said, "you could just dump those here in my yard," saved them a ton of work.The brussel sprouts were a blast, how they grew in this wonderful four sided spiral up the stem... Having some of the same insect issues as you and yesterday saw a grasshopper!!! The aphids get me all worked up.Yeah the toys have left a few repair issues floating around, sorry bout that.
The aphids are completely under control here now, inside and out, though i find a few on the cabbage. I never saw a lacewing for all that effort i made to get them, but i have a lot of predatory wasps and fly-like creatures working over the plants looking for the little suckers. I credit the scaling back of the skyrocketing aphid population here almost entirely to gettting Tanglefoot on my trees earlier this year. The ants who were farming them got banished so that the beneficials could made a run on the aphid population that had in previous years left near-total defoliation of some trees. The ants would keep even wasps at bay, but once they were gone, the ladybug larvae was able to develop and when that happened...the aphid population in the trees nearly disappeared. I've never seen ladybug larvae around here before...seems like a Good Thing. With beneficial insects protected, i think their numbers increased and likely they moved into the HH when the pickings in the trees grew scarcer. Well, that's the theory...LOL...I noticed some kind of insect on my hanging indoor plant so i've moved it out to the HH, under the shade of the squash-curtain, to be cleaned up by my elves.Great score on the cedar poles. It's a fine thing to be in the right place at the right time. Do you have a Woodmizer for cutting up something that size?The toy issue was completely customer-related, not at all a product fault. As a woodworker, i appreciated the way you'd dovetailed the wing into the dowel as i repeated it. I've got one of your gondolas packed here...somewhere...with all the unexcavated artwork since i moved. You've produced more giggles with your work than most of us, for sure.
I'll have to try putting the hurt on the ants,Yeah got a little bandmill, not as good as a woodmiser but serviceable. Have a house and a half of lumber stacked right now. Probly awta build something.
The soap and water spray helps control aphids, too. Some people mix their own, but i've read that unless you use the special insecticidal soap you also de-wax the leaves as well as the aphids and speed up transpiration. Might not be a problem in the greenhouse with adequate water, but using even the special insecticidal soap made by Safer caused burn on the fruit trees and the ornamental plum, which was the most infested tree of all.I have several hundred kitchen doors i got for free, stacked in my shop ready to be turned into frame-and-panel wainscot and coffered ceilings. Any day now...
Hi ToyGuy! I know the domes were developed in high CO...but has anyone had experience with them in grey winters like we get over here? Did you have winter greens making any growth in Jan/Feb, or were they just surviving and waiting for Spring?
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Kinda closed up shop at the end of November, started to have aphid problems then. Some celery overwintered, I am thinking that the light levels get too low in the deepest part of winter. Tried to start things in mid Feb, but they really poked along til mid March. Trying to focus on the place running passively. Had heat in there briefly in fall and spring and the bugs seemed much worse. Am considering running a small grow light in the fall and spring if the solar panel will handle it.In early Sept, will try to start some winter greens and maybe some cabbage family plants. Get a better idea of how those cold resistant things might work.
Low light levels does seem to be the problem....a grow light is a great idea. Lots of commercial greenhouses use them.
I just found some info on using essential oils against aphids....spearmint, peppermint, cedarwood, and hyssop. Then repellent plants or plant teas include nasturtium, spearmint, stinging nettle, southernwood, garlic, potatoes, parsley, basil, horseradish. I notice I have no aphids near my parsley, or potatoes.....hmmm.......
Territorial Seed sent their winter catalog awhile ago....says we should start planting winter crops in July...so hard to think of that, when we are just starting to sample summer veggies!
Maybe a 'working greenhouse' means WE have to work alot...?! ;v)
Gosh I don't know about nasturtiums as a repellent. Last fall the aphids really took off in two hanging pots of them. Maybe they mean those plants will get all the aphids to gather on them.I am getting ladybugs next week. The ants don't seem very common so I am gonna give that a try.
I stopped growing fava beans and sunflowers near the garden bec they were aphid magnets. I didn't find they drew the aphids off the good plants so much as provided aphid colonies to go forth and multiply! Not having either of those plants this year might be contributing to my better luck contolling the aphids this time around. I had aphid problems on my seedlings, but i found putting them outside during the daytime helped a lot. They spent April to mid-May inside my little solarium where i battled the aphids constantly before the HH was built. Next year, i'm betting that only having them in the house for 3-4 weeks before i can put them in the HH will mean a lot less hassle over that. The apphids got started in my house bec of forcing some tulips that apparently came pre-loaded.
Thanks for the aphid info. ! The battle is joined!Yesterday and this morning I helped a neighbor put up his growing dome frame. 26 footer. You will like his foundation better. He put a lot of work in it.
Si belle! I really hope you continue posting photos of the progress. Intaglio was considering cement block for a HH base earlier on for heat retention...seems a good idea.
HELP....
I got these eating all the squash.
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any ideers?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Sphere,
Do they look exactly like the one in your picture or more like the one below?
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If they are like the one above here they are "squash bugs". Not the most imaginative name, but certainly desciptive.
Squash bugs can be conrtolled to a certain extent by placing a board or shingle (no need for copper, asphalt should be fine) on the gound near the plants. Since squash bugs like to spend the night under cover, you can go out early in the morning and squash (sorry) any bugs that are living there.
In general earlier control is better (like in June).
They are hard to spray for in the adult stages and you should definitely avoid insectides if your squash are in bloom as it will end up injuring the bees that pollinate the garden.
You can read more about them:
http://www.vegedge.umn.edu/vegpest/cucs/squabug.htm
A.
Edited 7/23/2008 8:21 am ET by Island Angus
Edited 7/23/2008 8:22 am ET by Island Angus
Edited 7/23/2008 8:23 am ET by Island Angus
That's them alright.
I kinda thought that we'd be just pickin' and squishin'...the DW won't allow any rotenone or anything in HER garden, I have in the past used it sparingly on my stuff ( we have seperate plots) to keep the critters at bay early on.
Thanks for the advice.
I've yet to get any pics posted here of all the chaos I've managed to grow , quite the sight considering my early failures and goofy weather..just about all the 'maters are volunteers from last year so as of this moment, I have no clue what they are..Roma's, Cherry, or them big azzed monsters that I had. I don't know if you saw the "How does Your Garden Grow" thread last year..but I had 'maters 8'' in diameter!
Rag tag bunch of mixed peppers are struggleing to recover from my ill attempted applied fertilizer..I'll have enough to pickle, but not enough to last till next yr. Unless the Jalapeno gods smile on the two or three plants..I never canned serranos yet, that'll be exciting. Yellow banannas, and cayanne round out the hot selectons that are trying to make it..and maybe one Hungarian wax.
I swear, I am hoophousing next year,,this was such a snafu this year, I am ashamed of myself..and turning over my "PepperKing" crown to someone more worthy..BUT, I'll be BACK!!! LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/resourceguide/mfs/11rotenone.php
Rotenone seems quite effective, but not exactly the 'organic' effect one might wish. Sure looks like a lot of animals died testing it for toxicity. :^(
I've ordered a new material for covering my HH to replace the defective plastic. The trademark name is "Griffolyn". I also have 30% shade cloth coming any day now, so i hope to get it on the HH before i leave for Peachfest. (Hey! Are you coming??)
My plan is to use the Griffolyn in the Spring and Fall, then switch to shade cloth in the non-frost months.
Dear Splintie
Thank you for this thread. My "garden" consists of two tomatoes in pots, & 2 bush beans in another pot, but every day I rush to see what's happening here.
Endless entertainment!
Your friend
Kate
But...but...you're a farmer! I feel like i'm just mucking around here in my playground while folks like BossHog and you have gone out there and bet real money on your abilities.
I don't know that I've bet REAL money. What I've invested carries minimal risk. My regular job will carry me if there's a bad crop year. It seems to me that you've put more into your hoop house than I have into that little field. You put your heart and soul into making that work.I'm just playing with borrowed equipment and messing around.
Happiness is like a cloud - If you stare at it long enough it evaporates. [Sarah McLachlan]
With the new shade cloth covering and the industrial-strength clear covering i ordered to replace this defective plastic, i'm ballparking a HH in this size, 13x49, in the $1000 range now. The thing is, that's the only money i should have to spend for maybe ten years, except for replacing a timer or something, if i remove the covers when they aren't being used.
The things i'm growing are the products you'd pay most for at a grocery store: the broccoli and tomatoes and such, so at the rate the thing is already producing, i can't see how it could help but pay for itself in one year. Of course, i'm not factoring in my labor at all, just cash outlay.
Still, i can't help thinking how cheap grain and beans and stuff like that is. It was eye-opening to see how much commercial fertilizers cost you, but then when a person factors in having to rely on the weather, too...pretty big chance a farmer takes. I just have to open a spigot, set a timer and walk off...watering's done. I was harvesting yesterday during a thunderstorm, a neat experience...can't do that on a combine.
I also have almost no machinery to maintain once the beds are built, just the tiller that gets the ground started. No deer to contend with. Weeds are kept in check with the newspapers. If i get a corker of a bug infestation at some point, i'll be singing a different tune about how easy it is!
Outside the HH is a different story, sadly. I took some pics today of grasshopper damage around the place....
Grasshopper damage pics. The one of them on the septic tank lid shows them caucusing, trying to decide what to kill next.
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Edited 7/23/2008 6:39 pm by splintergroupie
I guess both of our situations have their advantages and disadvantages. But I also think we're both making the best of our respective situations.
A fundamentalist is an idealist with whom you disagree.
We just need to figure out how to tent that field of yours! <G>
I'd be happy if I could just WATER the danged thing.(-:
Male menopause is a lot more fun than female menopause. With female menopause, you gain weight and get hot flashes.
With male menopause, you get to date young girls and drive motorcycles.
Come on out...we'll teach ya how to run a wheel line...
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Went to the farmers market last week. Dozen ears of sweetcorn was $4-4.50. Tomatoes were $2/lbs. Squash/zucchini were 50cents to $1 ea. Yukons were .99/lbs.
If you have similar prices, maybe you could farmers market it and pay off your HH improvements.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
In years past i have't had any trouble using up what i've grown, though the 21 cantaloupes on two hills are sort of making me wonder if there might be gold in them thar hoophouses! Until i get my predators figured out, i can't see anyone buying many greens with holes munched in them, though. I don't care, but the public wants perfect produce.
Our food prices are a lot higher than many places in the country. Corn was like 79 cents/ear last i saw in a grocery, though i suppose it might have come down recently. I haven't been to a good farmers market in a while to know how the prices there.
Tomatillos always fetch a huge price in the market, but they are so very easy to grow, at least for me. Can't figure that one out.
OK, so your lifestyle might start making you $$. The chickens control the hoppers and the eggs and veggies pay for more and more HH's!
[edit to add] as far as the perfect veggies goes... I think it depends. IMO, veggies with some character will still sell fine as long as they don't look bug eaten or such. Guess it depends on supply & demand.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
Edited 7/24/2008 1:29 pm by JohnT8
"
Tomatillos always fetch a huge price in the market, but they are so very easy to grow, at least for me. Can't figure that one out. "
I get a pro opinion here .
I sold all this stuff and dad talked about raising it . I never did . I was the pusher. He did raise melons while he sold all this stuff. He was sold on it . Disc an area and plant pretty much does it if the rain fall is enough.
I disagreed that they were hard to pick and haul. As I was going out they started comming in cardboard crates. Shoulda done that earliar. Sheesh. They used to take up a whole trailer bed ..
IN the feild it was quick to see what I could sell the most . Tomatoes and letuce. were the top sellers. Not only that but thats what all the burger barns wanted and a sack of onions. You average DariQueen type place uses 4 lettuce and 4 tomato a week. I made three bucks a crate . I dropped 8 crates for 24 dollars unless they needed one bag of onion. Nothing else though. Same thing with cafes . Grocery stores will buy anything but they sell a boat load of those two.
If I was gonna grow it would have to be tomatoes if I was doing the selling .
I condered brokering tomatoes only. That would have required taking full trucks , all tomatoes. I bought off such brokers . Then selling to wholesale accounts.
In the case of tomatoes they have to be blemish free for retail sales but not to be cut up in a kitchen. Those are twos.
Arkansas has a tomato market in the south like we have peaches and grapes here.
They are perfect tomatoes . I dont think I could do that .
Tim
A friend of mine in Coeur d'Alene (Idaho panhandle) started bringing fruit from an organic orchard over by The Dalles in western Washington where the climate is much better for growing. I talked to him after he'd done his first Farmers Market, selling 200# of cherries at $4/#. He was telling me about someone else who buys from the farm and retails it similarly in another area who sells a semi-load a week and makes boatloads of money on it.Unless a grower could commit to bringing a certain amount of produce each week, wouldn't they buy from an importer they could trust to always have it available from somewhere/anywhere? That's why i'm thinking specialty items like tomatillos or Armenian cukes or midget cants might be the way to go for a small...er, miniature..grower like myself. People are getting away from the nasty excuses for tomatoes that were ubiquitous, moving on to grape tomatoes, tomatoes on the vine, etc. Perhaps unusual strains like the Russian blacks or the green zebras might command an audience willing to be astonished at what a tomato can taste like. There's a fellow in a valley north of me who experimented with cants until he found one from Russia that would grow in a Montana summer. They are outstanding fruits which he sells at the Missoula Farmers' Market to hordes of people who can't get enough of them. He sells at a very reasonable price so he's assured of not taking any home. I was thinking a person could sell hand-made cutting boards on the side, too...since i still have about $10K worth of wood left from my woodworking days.
I was following up on my reply to Tim Mooney about the cantaloupes raised in this area, trying to find the name of the farmers. I found this recent, well-written article about some garlic growers in the same area...a nice read and a philosophy many of us in this thread probably subscribe to:http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/07/23/hometowns/home85.txt
One year I was pulling loads of water melons out of Hope Ar. I had my store calling Gro stores to book the drops. I got to Little Rock and used a pay phone at a truck stop to call home . Piggly Wiggly had booked three straight loads with us . I never knew why but there was a good reason for it . Normally they bought melons from their warehouse .
So yea they take what they can get somtimes.
Tim
"Unless a grower could commit to bringing a certain amount of produce each week, wouldn't they buy from an importer they could trust to always have it available from somewhere/anywhere? "
No, it never comes from the same place. They dont have control over it . For a couple of weeks we got all of our tomatoes from Mexico. Next month from Chile. Now early water melons comes from deep Texas close to the border. By August we are getting melons out of Mo. Arkansas in between them. We have trouble getting pumkins picked by halloween etc. We have a small window on peaches but we cant control it . Grapes do very well here but they froze last year . Thats wy we have two major wineries here. Apples not so good although we have a lot of orchards , we cant compete with Mo and Ill. Tomato crop in Arkansas runs about two to three weeks for shipping . The earlies and lates are sold in state stores.
We have strawberries too [this is what Im getting at] and they good . They however arent what Cal puts out. Cal is better and sells the same time we sell ours. I would have both at the same time and my customers wanted home grown. Cals was cheaper and better but they still wanted Ar homegrown. People want what they think is the freshest fruit they can get . All you have to do is hang the little "home grown " sticker beside the price and its sold out.
When I ran a truck out of South Ar for the tomato harvest grocery stores would book the load. All they could get from their warehouse was Cal tomatoes that shipped all over . They couldnt get AR tomatoes. Thats why they booked the loads.
I could write a lot about what a cut throat business grocery really is but its not part of this thread. I will say someone like walmart will buy "all " of a crop. When they do that the only place you can get that crop is in a super center. I was buying apples in Mo and had every year until one year I called to book a mixed load of yellow , red delicious, and rome . I was told Kroger bought them out except for rome apples . I couldnt make the trip up there for a cooking apple . I went to Ill for the load . That was much farther for me . The MO run was a days ride there and back loaded. That hurt but its the business. One year we couldnt get peanuts direct from New Mexico.
Tim
Quite interesting stuff, Tim, and it's certainly garden-related so don't hold back on that account. I actually think we're saying the same thing. I was wondering why a grocery store that was any bigger than a Mom and Pop would buy from a local like me. They would want someone who would be sure to get them a certain amount of produce or else; they can't sell what they don't have. You were the guy who ran around finding what they needed ("importer" is probably too far up the chain for what you did..."distributor?"). I could sell to the store, but it would have to be on an ad hoc basis bec i couldn't promise quantities they would need to stock.Although, as you say, if it's a local product, the folks may prefer it at a premium offered alongside the produce from the big growers. I've seen that with the apple harvest in the fall here. The bins of local apples have folks arrayed around them like vultures and you're lucky to get a jug of that cider if you're in the right place at the right time. On the subject of strawberries, there's a great ol' guy down the lane, must be at least 70-75. He's in poor health, but he gets his oxygen on and talks strawberries like it was yesterday. His family originally was from Ark., but they bought a bunch of cheap land in Oklahoma and planted it to strawberries. They had a passle of kids to work it, including my friend, and recovered the cost of the land in some amazing amount of time, a year or so. Gene isn't long for this planet, but he sure loves his garden as i do. He feeds the deer; i feed the grasshoppers. <G>
I had a farmers market store. I bought from people like you and your old friend down the road. My produce was cheaper that the grocery stores. Mainly I sold wholesale to anyone . Tomatoes in the G store would run .79 per pound and mine would sell for .49 every day. In home grown season Id sell a 25 lb box for 8 to 10 bucks . That was actually the price stores were getting from me . Anyone could come buy 2 boxes to can at that price.
The retail trade was a home center for me . Split boxes went there after my routes. I sold to country stores if I passed them and sold them six heads of lettuce breaking a case of 30. 10 lbs of tomatoes etc. The country stores bought onions and potatoes too. I could run a bill of 50 dollars pretty quick in a 10 minute stop. It beat driving by and I was beating my store time wise. Of course my girls were there answering the phone and booking loads and dispatching me . A cell phone would have been awsome . I put a ot of change in pay telephones. How times have changed.
I put two people on flea markets and they did well. Sent them out with 1500 and they came back with 750. Restock and go again the next day. I did all I could to keep produce moving fast because you cant hold it . At that time flea markets was in its hey day. I went to a cattle auction one morning and pulled in at 4 in the morning which was typical for that kind of selling . You need to be set up and ready to sell at daylight . I went to a wholesale nursery and loaded with the first tomato plants available . I sold the load by 9 am. The next week I did it again but it took all day. Timing is everything. On another day in the fall I loaded pre haloween . I loaded with plants and flowers . I got to my place and finished the load with pumkins . The next morning I was sitting at the cattle auction. I was supposed to bring back what was left for my store but I sold out before noon. Girls said we had some mad customers , so I had to be at the nursery the next morning for another load.
You dont have to be big to sell. Everyone trades with everyone pretty well. Cash talks buying . Its pretty well a cash business too. Big or little everyone deals in cash. Nobody refuses it . All my wholesale customers paid in cash.
A guy walked in one day and he was a pure dirt farmer by looks . He asked to buy toe sacks which I kept and sold for .25 cents. I had about 150 sacks . He wanted them all so I had to question it . Potato grower. I gave him the sacks no charge but bought his crop. He agreed to 8.00 per hundred for new potatos. It was funny they came from the mountain. I ran a sale and a big part went back up to the mountain at 14.00 per hundred one sack at a time . Mountain people show up in an old station wagon or wore out pick up and bought sacks of oinions , taters , 25 lb flour , 20 lb pinto beans , etc. Trade me what they were growing such as sweet corn, maters , etc. Pretty cool experience dealing with all those people. I bought all the time from people like you . What ever you had , when you had it , didnt matter. Its everyones business not just the big guy.
I bought seconds from the peach orchards and sold them to farmers for canning at the cattle sale . Those people will eat a peach like that too since its cheap. They bought them by the half bushel. Everyone gets in on this kinda deal . Apples were the same way. People bought bushels and 1/2s. Corn, peas, lettuce , didnt matter .
It still dont matter . Youll do fine .
Tim
I love your stories. Your selling had all the dynamism of my art fairs where we set up a small city in the wee hours, then open for business... only you did it with perishable goods!Cash deals would be good, but i'd be up for bartering, too, like you did. I wonder if the circle will come round where we pay doctors with a couple cases of organic tomatoes or a chicken bec the ones in the stores have been recalled. Yeah...maybe not. <G>I picked my cherry tree tonight, its second year of production. I made jam...probably not cost-effective compared to store-bought, but the flavor is out of this world. I'm not much of a gastronome, but even i'd pay double for that.
I honestly wish I had stayed in it .
Not from a financial side or an easy way to make a living becasue its neither .
I kept a national registrar of prouduce sold in America. It tells lots of things but it says when crops came off in different places last year. It gives names and numbers of people and companies selling . I called orchards all around me and wholesale houses. Thats how I found apples in Illinois .
I miss being in the feilds and orchards waiting to get loaded and tasting the stuff. A pocket knife was for opening fruit and eating it . I always did it . You mind if I split a water melon? I always got to taste before I loaded . Then on the way home I could get sick eating it . I could eat a half dozen apples in the truck on the way home . I could get my hands sticky on the steering wheel hauling peaches home and have to get a towl wet from the water jug.
Anyway I got to taste the first fruit every year along with peanuts etc. A freshly opened sack of roasted peanuts is awsome . Then roasted salted . The no bowl movement .
I miss the excitement on the peoples faces when my truck pulls in with the first fruit of the year. Tomato plants before walmart has them so they can get an edge on their friends and families.
Most of all I miss the meetings and the friendships made with people along the way. I miss their stories and their way of life . Growers are some of the best people in the world. They dont necesarily make their living off people but off their love of their trade. The ones that are successful are the best at their trade most of the time . They share knowledge easily like we do here. Most of all fair people in life . Women that arent afraid to talk to men which is so important in business. IM not sure how they deserve that trait but its there.
Then the side stops along the road such as Amandas Cafe which is a small cafe on the way to the orchards on a small country hiway. She made homemade pies by the dozens . The fruit of the season in her pies. HOT CHERRY PIE UP! Followed by I want one several times around the room. She made hand outs of cubes of pie for tasting . Girl answering the phone and writing an order then on hanging up, 6 stawberry pies to to Masons Lodge tomorrow at noon. To stop where coffee was good and smiles were plenty. One more story made before I head home with a with a smile . One more memory.
Tim
<<Most of all I miss the meetings and the friendships made with people along the way.>>That's what i pine for from my art fair days, too. I think there's a bit of a gambling gene in us gardeners and artists who depend chiefly on hard work, but also on things breaking for us right. I've been to a few shows where i left poorer that i arrived, but then you hit the jackpot at a few others to keep you in the game. Some of us are just not capable of 8-5 jobs, so i'm glad there's something else for us to do. I got out when it was clear the shows weren't going to be worth it anymore bec times had changed, but damn! what a good time was had by all!You have your national register of produce sold while artists have craft reports of almost every juried show in America, in addition to all the underground information, e.g. if you set up in Park City, be prepared for a cloudburst sending a torrent of rain through your booth; you can reserve a dorm room at the college for cheap at the Billings show; lots of bikers riding to Sturgis go through Jackson Hole on the fair weekend so you might want to take earplugs or camp farther out of town.It's interesting what you said about women not being afraid to talk to men. It wasn't at all common to be a female woodworker when i started the business in 1983, but i was surprised that most of the skeptical commentary from people at shows who couldn't believe i actually made the product came from urban areas. My MIL, bless her citified heart, thought it was a shame i was using my brains to become a "machanic", as she understood it. One might expect rural areas to be more provincial in that regard, but i guess they'd seen women driving tractors and grain trucks so it wasn't such a big deal to see one run a TS. My mother used to drive an old Ford dumptruck when my dad landed a gig hauling tailings from an old mill for flux for a smelter for three years - the gig that put us on the map as one of the leading families of Basin MT (pop. 200) in the 60s, LOL! Dad showed me how to run the Drott 4-in-1 loader when i was barely able to pull the levers. After supper, Dad was planted in his rocker snoozing by the woodstove while Mom was still in the kitchen...probably why i've had such an antipathy toward cooking until lately.I made pancakes this morning, topped with hot cherry syrup - nope, it's not going to gel - that i made last nite. To die for...
I got out when it was clear the shows weren't going to be worth it anymore bec times had changed, but damn! what a good time was had by all!
The shows are never worth it, or always worth it, depending on your viewpoint. There are just too many factors involved, to be able to point to the times/economy. Had my best year ever when others had their worst....next year it was my neighbor's turn. If we could just figure out the magic that made that great show!
Would you have us believing it was brains that made you get out?! ;v)
A good time is always had by all: bring your cutting boards and stake out your tent.....maybe you can sell a few 'maters on the side.
If it hadn't been brains that got me out, it would have been the bank account or maybe just these tired bones.
Maybe i should sell cutting boards with tomatoes as a bonus. "And that's not all, folks! Buy two and get a trio of Armenian cucumbers, too!"
Speaking of...the Armenian cukes are about a foot long now...very pretty.
Ever see a Chinese cucumber? I saw one today on TV (it was the "Ask This Old House" show). It looked to be about a foot long and had thorny warts on it like a pickling cucumber.
I just googled this...is that similar? Looks like a winner for next year!http://evergreenseeds.stores.yahoo.net/chcuhycrwi.html
Well, similar, I guess, but the ones I saw on TV were slightly curved and very bumpy. Don't know anything about their flavor, texture or other characteristics. Looked like they would be hard to hold with chopsticks unless you cut them into smaller pieces!
But wait! There's more! http://www.evergreenseeds.com/orcuc.html
Yeah. They kinda looked like them there Ko rean things.
I grow a cuke called Satsuki Madori, it looks like the Suyo cross pictured on that website (evergreen seed). Believe it's from Seeds of Change. It's usually curved, and delicious...no real spines, though. I like the name, too!
This time of year in Florida, nearly anything you plant is bound to become a heartbreak hotel with produce-hungry critters of one kind or other, even those varieties with bumps and spines. Maybe I'll send for some seeds in a month or two and give things like cukes a try in a fall garden -- or on a trellis. Thanks for the seed source.
This photo can't capture exactly how it is to peer into this maze of leaves and hanging lanterns. Magical. These are the Mexican strain tomatillos. So far the huge lanterns only have a dime sized fruit inside, and I hate to pinch them to find out how large they are getting!
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My peppers are happy, something kinda hard to achieve in this climate. This little square with tomatoes shielding the north & west sides makes a nice environment.
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And thinned carrots from the carrot bed...the largest carrots I've ever had so early! The main rows are way behind, and were planted 12 days earlier. Beds work so well, even if they do need more water initially. And the screened bottoms! ..no gopher worries like the other rows, which were disappearing til I caught the thief. You must try Mokum carrots!...they are the tenderest, sweetest of all. Often break off when pulling them, they are so succulent.
Edited 7/28/2008 2:58 am ET by intaglio
I'm growing those same tomatillos and i've had to be ruthless about cutting them back! I was attributing the size (6'tall after being whacked!) to being in the HH, but i guess they are just huge by nature. Mine also have fruits setting...hundreds and hundreds of them...
Here's part of my broccoli haul, and another shot of cukes that got pickled yesterday and some Royal Burgundy beans that i can't recommend...too tough, even when boiled.
The all-broccoli shot is about a fourth of the first crop, from a 30' row, about ten pounds cooked. I'm trimming it severely before my trip to Peachfest so there should be sideshoots ready to process when i get back. I'm freezing it all in plastic freezer bags...what i don't gorge on before it gets that far!
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Edited 7/28/2008 3:42 pm by splintergroupie
Some cabbage and good-size carrots. Seems only last week i checked them and they weren't nearly big enough to pull.
The cabbage doesn't seem so impressive until you realize all the other leaves are 1-1/2 times normal size. That head is about a foot across.
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I laid the carrots down when the UPS guy came and when i went back to them, the tap roots had been eaten off by grasshoppers. It's getting ugly out there!
Edited 7/28/2008 4:08 pm by splintergroupie
I'd mentioned that i'd ordered new material for my HH covering to replace the defective visqueen i'd bought.
I hadn't seen a sample of the material, but i'd read glowing reports of a product called "Griffolyn" made by Reef Industries of Texas. It's used as a reinforced vapor barrier in heavy construction, but outside of that my research only turned up its frequent use in photography as a filtering fabric in large screens. A few boatbuilders have been turned onto it and mention it in their forums as a very long-lasting material for building boat sheds fro storage and working on them. The photographers and boat builders buy it in the white version, but it also comes in clear. I was impressed enough by reports to order the clear.
The box arrived just now and i am impressed! It's well packed in shrink wrap and a taped/banded cardboard container to fit. The 20x100' roll weighs 90# and the reinforcement fibers are a substantial diameter. The material is clearer than visqueen, and much stouter. The UPS shipping charges were also $20 cheaper than estimated by the salesperson i'd contacted - nice surprise! The price was $300 with shipping of $70. The combined goods and shipping cost is about a hundred dollars cheaper than the cost of a reinforced plastic i found on greenhouse sites for $485 for the same size roll, shipping not included. Cutting out the middleman is rather lucrative. Greef Industries took a credit card over the phone.
Incidentally, the 20x100 size seems to be a very common size for plastic roll coverings...something to recall if one is deciding what size to make their HH. I sunk my PVC ends into a 2x4 on each side and made the HH 49' long to account for this. I've found that the visqueen i've bought previously is generously sized, but i've read reports of people coming up short using roll materials. It appears some manufacturers build in an overlap and some don't.
Time from invoicing to arrival was 7 days - pretty snappy!
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Edited 7/28/2008 4:39 pm by splintergroupie
The 20x100' roll weighs 90# and the reinforcement fibers are a substantial diameter.
So when do you start on the 100' long HH? Or is it two 50' ones? :)
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I'm going to make another HH the same size as this one (the first job that IBEWChuck's rototiller gets to do!), then cover both with the reinforced material. I also have shade cloth on the way, which i'll use when i don't need frost protection.
Speaking of said tiller:
I partially dismantled it this morning to ready it for transport.It's raining here or I would get you a picture of the pieces!In two weeks you are going to be calling it YOUR tiller.I had to have my appendix removed last Thursday so, I'm trying to break it down into lighter pieces. The Doc thinks I should go at things easy for a while.Don't worry, I can probably reassemble it in 20 minutes or so.IF I remember to load ALL the parts!Looking forward to seeing you again.Chuck
Your appendix!!! Good grief, man, i'd be milking that for a lotta ice cream and movies, not wasting time dismantling a rototiller for some wench in MT! (Is it going to ride on Boss' lap? <G>)Looking forward to seeing you, too, and the gang. If your liver is in better shape than your appendix, we'll hoist a Moose Drool to toast my great good fortune. I've used the old Ariens for a few more things around here, but it's like driving my '66 Dodge Power Wagon compared to the Tacoma. I'm going to get it spruced up and returned to its owner after i put yours back together. I imagine i'll have to bring it home in parts, but give me an exploded diagram and i'm good to go. I've also got my neighbors' 8HP Horse tiller for a guide if i get stuck.
Hey Splinter,
Are you going to eat all this food, or sell some!
you seem to be producing quite a haul.
The dogs and i will be eating it all! <G>I'm hoping what grows this year can supply me until next year with frozen, dehydrated, and canned veggies, supplemented with bought rice and beans. Next year i'll add potatoes under HH2 so the bugs don't get them and i'll be trying garbanzo beans (bec Notchman promises me they can grow here <G>) for a starch. I've thought about selling some produce - i'd like to recup the cost of the materials (about $1000 so far)- after i get an idea of how much will be left over next Spring. It doesn't make sense to sell it wholesale now to buy it retail in Feb.
I'm truly impressed.
Good on ya.
Thanks! It's been a tickle, both the HH and the thread about it. My threadmates have certainly improved my game, too!
That old girl is gonna love getting put to work again. LOL, hope you don't end up tilling your entire property!
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I'll till the fenced yard this year, about 3/4-1 acre, to plant a cover crop this fall to turn in next spring to get a lawn started. I've done it before, takes two days...maybe i'll get the high school kid to run the other tiller until we get it done. If it weren't for my iPod, it'd be a nutso job.
I have to tell ya..this is soooooo cool.
Let the boys out to run, they hit the garden like a pack o' wolves..surrounded a MINK..I got it free..lost it in the berry patch. Imagine a cat that was oiled and pissed off, can't hang on.
So cool. I never saw one alive before,..they like sweet peppers it seems.
Have a great trip. I'll miss seeing ya.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Very cool story on the mink. I didn't know their range was so wide. We have ermine here; friends of mine make a habit of following traplines and releasing them and removing the traps. I know what you mean about ferocious! Probably good that the pups didn't catch it, really.Just got home last night. My house-sitter, Ed, pickled a bunch of peppers while i was away. They're sitting in jars saying, "I dare you, white woman..." It's a toss-up whether i eat a pickled pepper or a grasshopper first.Ja, you should've been at the Fest. 35 hours driving home hasn't removed ANY of the warm fuzzies. David and Rich can always fall back on event organization if the farming and carpentry gigs don't pan out...outstanding coordination.
So now you have a peck of pickled peppers ???(-:Glad to hear you made it home O.K. I thought about calling you last night so check. But a certain lady has been calling me every morning at 4 AM to visit, so I need my beauty sleep.Did Ed take good care of the hoop house? Got more pics for us?
The watchword of the left in those days [1960's & 1970's] was 'Never trust the government.' Now, of course, the left IS the government, and the new watchword is 'Never mind. [C. D. Tavares, 1997]
Ed picked and pickled and boiled and froze until he was red in the face, but he couldn't bring himself to chop squash vines despite having permission, so the hoophouse will need a good haircut. He's been freezing beans day after day...what a show they're putting on now! It was just astounding to come home and see how well everything came through under his care. I planted borders of petunias at the entry to the HH and now the path is barely passable. I'll have to take some more pics soon. Grasshoppers are still rampant, but he kept them at bay with the pyrethrin dust and oodles of water. Things look really great!Ed just brought me a bowl of raspberries over ice cream for breakfast...i didn't refuse. I'm not sure where the ice cream bush is located, but i'll be planting more chocolate ones next year after seeing how well they do here. I have to get a new phone today bec this one appears to be toast after this trip. I'm glad yours is getting a work-out, though! Phone, that is. I dare you to wear your new prison-issue shirt on your next date. <g> Talk soon...
No idea yet on when the next "date" will be. I'm hoping for some face time over labor day weekend. I may have to apply for a part time job with Doud in order to pay for the trips up there.(-:
I think the movies look better in color, pal, and they're my movies [Ted Turner, when asked why he has old films colorized]
I like that she smacked you in company. It's never a bad idea to hook up with someone with martial arts skills in case you get lost in Chicago.
She said it hurt when I smacked her on the butt in retaliation. Later on when we were walking she said it still stung. So I offered to kiss it to make it feel better, and that got me smacked again.Why are women so danged violent ???
When we get home, remind me to smack your mama [Sherrif Buford T. Justice in "Smokey and the Bandit]
<<Why are women so danged violent ???>>We want to make an impression. <G>
OK, where's our pics of the new girl in action? (or is it a boy?)
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
She may be sleeping near the thing, and won't be on BT for another day or two.I can see her now, waking up in the early morning light - Patting the engine cowling and saying: "We'll go outside tomorrow, baby. Go back to sleep now".(-:
If God had meant for us to travel tourist class, he would have made us narrower.
A woman and her tiller. Always a touching story..
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I figure when she reads that it could go one of two ways.
She could say: "Oh, that is SO sweet".
Or she could say: "I'm gonna KILL that ornery SOB".
.
Anybody wanna take bets ???
Critics are like eunuchs in a harem. They know how it's done, they've seen it done, but they're unable to do it. [Ed Asner ]
I thought that one was banned for being so dirty.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Wow, this is a dirty thread... so is the farming one. They might both get delted and BH and SG banned!
jt8
"so I need my beauty sleep"
your beauty sleep isn't doing any better than mine <G>
"Erica" hasn't worn the rust off her tines yet. A couple Ottawanian friends who dropped by got hauled up on the carport last night so they could get a bird's-eye view of her. There were the proper numbers of ooh's and aah's as we sat lubricating our throats and watching a nearly full moon rise up over the Sapphire Mountains as meteors shot hither and yon. I then made five pints of Doud spiced peach preserves. Somewhere after the second glass of merlot i went metric.
Today we pickled 14 quarts of cukes, dilly beans, and an assorted broc/carrot/celery/onion mixture that i think has a name like "gardenieri" except that won't google. Can anyone help me on that term/name? We then made five quarts of cole slaw worth dying for, and about 20 more pounds of beans got blanched and frozen. Then we watched Sidney Pollock's "Jeremiah Johnson" and wondered whether fighting Crow might not be easier than doing battle with the hoophouse.
On the other hand, Jeremiah never had a Minnesota Midget cantaloupe for lunch to keep his spirits up! The first three were ready today and the one i opened was uncommonly good. There's about the same difference between that and a store-bought melon as there is between a real tomato and once of those square, plastic things they call "tomatoes" in the grocery bins.
I just got my password problem with IE/Prospero fixed, so i'll be putting some pics up tomorrow.
Edited 8/14/2008 10:58 pm by splintergroupie
I just got my password problem with IE/Prospero fixed, so i'll be putting some pics up tomorrow. Or so she said 4 days ago.jt8
I spent yesterday and today picking up more materials for the second hoop house, but all the picking and canning seem to 'eat up' a lot of time. I have this pic of the cants - i've harvested about 8 so far - with wild huckleberries...yesterday's breakfast.
Hey Girl. what's going on in the HH? We need pictures. Please.Chuck
I hear she was last seen hanging on for dear life, as she ascended the Great Divide, being towed by a Troy-bilt tiller.
Ya shoulda showed her the OFF switch.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
Oh, jeez, i've been dreading this...
I have good news and bad news. About Erica...
I checked the oil, put in fresh gas, started Erica on the path to righteousness tilling in the new HH a few days after i got home. About 20 minutes or less into the process, she bogged down, then sped up and then shut down. She was very hot, so i checked the oil again...fine. I let her sit and cool completely, then decided to try once more. She started fine, ran a couple minutes, then went *clankety-clang*. The starter rope had no compression at that point.
So Erica's at the small engine hospital. The mechanic i use ALSO checked the oil level, just to be sure. He couldn't tell me what happened since it was within the markings on the dipstick, but he's going to see if it's fixable and if not, put another engine on. He talked about a connecting rod and crankcase journal, so i googled <<Tecumseh troy-bilt connecting rod>> and found a similar story to mine on the Garden Web forum. I found a couple other references with connecting rods with B&S engines on that tiller, too, but low oil levels were the fault. The mechanic told me that reading the oil level on the flat won't be a good indication of oil level when the machines are tilted back tilling, however, so maybe there's the lesson for me. If i need a new engine, i may splurge on the electric start one i found online, if it fits the mounting hardware.
We were only making a shallow first past in sandy soil - that's my Peachfest house-sitter singing for his supper in the photo <G> - but for whatever reason, i broke her within 20 minutes...some kind of record, i think. I am so ashamed to have to confess this to you, BUT!! she'll be good as new shortly!!!!
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Now the GOOD news...
The canner's been steaming away: ten pints of peach preserves from Doud's and other sources, 14 pints of salsa in verde and chipotle varieties, ten quarts of pickled beets, 21 quarts of various cucumber pickles, and the half-pints of pickled peppers we previously prattled about. (Someday i'll get the doors back on those cabs...)
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Intaglio stopped by on her way back home from a Jackson Hole art show and we picked beans and more beans. We weighed them...20 pounds that day. I harvest beans every 2-3 days, but that was the high point so far in productivity. (PS: That's her arm on the right; NEVER attempt to arm-wrassle this woman if you meet her!) (PPS: Don't use Irfanview for cropping an image, either.)
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The green pole beans were much more prolific than the purple bush ones, much easier to pick, and worked much better in the HH going vertically compared to the bush beans that produced scads of greenery that flooded the aisle. I like the flavor and texture of the green ones better, while Ed and Intaglio preferred the purples. I estimate that i have about a hundred pounds of beans harvested so far from 30' of poles beans and 20' of bush beans.
The second cover i'd placed on the HH, also of that defective roll i used earlier, frayed after six weeks, same as the other, so it was removed a few days ago. I pulled out all the squash plants at that point to let the tomatoes have more light. I got only about 80# of squash for all that, but i have more growing at the bases of the trees that may contribute to the haul if it doesn't freeze soon.
The orangey ones are Lakotas, the greens ones are buttercups, the yellow/green oblong one is a delicata, and the light green thing on the right is an Armenian cuke, just for color balance. They are soooo goooood....
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I finally pulled all the broccoli plants as the variety, Green Goliath, didn't make side shoots well. I'd grow it again for its bumper crop of big heads, but i'd pull it right after harvest and put in a second crop in its stead. I had 30 heads, or about 30# of broccoli, most of it in the freezer now.
What else...hmmm...cabbages are the size of minor moons. These were an early cabbage...i would plant a lot more of a later variety next time to last longer into the winter and so as not to coincide with all the harvesting at this part of the season. I think they've actually passed their prime, but i haven't been able to get to them yet to process.
Carrots are enormous, have 2'-tall tops. I'm going to try drying them this year for the first time bec i'd like to make a soup mix i can jiffy up on cold days this winter. Just last night i began dehydrating cherry tomatoes and a lot more celery toward the effort.
Brussels sprout trees are 4' tall, but not making cabbagettes yet. Like the bush beans, there's way too much greenery for what you get, so i won't dedicate HH room to them next time. The last photo is of the impenetrable wall of greenery i found when i got home...daunting it was. Yes, that's an aisle...
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Still eating cantaloupe every day. They are big winners and will get even more space next year.
Edited 8/27/2008 5:37 pm by splintergroupie
Hey, shid happens. It was twenty five years old.NorthernTool.com has an exact replacement for $439.99. [ the catalog says under applications" Troy-Bilt tillers"].For an additional $124.99 they will sell you a 110 volt starter motor for that engine.I'm sorry that you are having problems with the tiller. It could have been me! I just stopped using it at the right time.Good luck with it. I hope you can get it repaired without spending an arm and a leg on it. The tiller ,with it's heavy-duty gear box has a lot of years left in it. While it is being serviced you may want to change the lube in the aforementioned gear box. Consult the owner's manual for recommendations.Again, sorry for giving you a lemon. I hope you can make lemonade eventually.Nancy says hi.Chuck
I was looking at engines at Jackssmallengines.com...they have a Tecumseh for that machine for $349. Since i'm not set up to work metal if the mounting needs to be finessed, i think i'll let the guy at the shop do the job, with my input. I have some Victorian posts and rails to deliver that'll pay a lot better than my skills with small engines ever could. Metal and i have never been a natural pairing.
Thanks for the pics - I was wondering how things were going.Great shot of the beans. Makes me hungry for some...
Q: What did one lesbin frog say to the other lesbian frog?
A: They're right - We do taste like chicken
They need to develop a bean that tastes like chicken. <G>
The cost of fixin' that tiller could buy a lot of mulch.What does straw go for there? Or spoiled hay?http://www.homestead.org/Gardening/Ruth%20Stout%20-%20The%20No-Dig%20Duchess.htm_______
/_|o[____]o
[1---L-OllllllO-
()_)()_)=°°=)_)
I've read Ruth's method and tried it in my first gardening attempts in the 70s, but without removing it in MT in the Spring, you get permafrost. For this climate, her method is just another kind of work, not no-work. Mulch is extremely important in summer in this desert climate, but black plastic is the kind that works best, for soil warming, water-retentionm and weed prevention. I've done side-by-side comparisons of both in my earlier garden outside the HH.I am severely impressed with the newspaper mulch now, ugly as it was to put down. In a previous HH (the 12x18 one in the OP), i had straw mulch which fostered slugs that i might have breaded and fried if they tasted anything at all like chicken! I've had very few in the newspaper mulch, and none of that enormity.When i took apart the old HH, i found the paths where i'd put straw to keep my feet clean were rich and black-black dirt. I have a plan to take my HH paths and tip them into the beds at the end of this season, after i've cleaned out the large vines and stalks, forking the paths and the newspapers in a little to let the mess all rot down. Then i'll put some fresh straw in the pathways, do it again...
Sorry to hear about the tiller. You may just check into a Honda engine to see if it will bolt up. I have no idea but I can attest to there longevity and ability to take abuse.
Probably more $ though. And what is the name of the hat wearing squash in that shot? I never saw one of those before.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I don't give a machine much abuse so even the Tecumseh engine will certainly outlive me and be passed on to the next gardener. With any luck at all, the fellow can get parts, though. One of the stories i read on the Net today mentioned using muriatic acid to remove aluminum that had welded itself to the rod/crank, etc. I wonder if i should pass on that technique to my mechanic......hmmmmm...The hat-wearing squash is a volunteer from last year's compost! ;^)
>Anyway, no chickens in my future until i have time to teach/monitor the damn dog >into leaving them be. More cold weather and rain lately, so the hoppers aren't >feeding like they were. I have a few potatoes left, even.
Shouldn't be too hard to train your dogs to leave them alone. Especially if they were chasing but not killing. Stray dogs are usually the problem.
>I checked with some friends whose gardens were hit much worse than mine. I'm >making another HH, in fact, slightly different design, as it was so effective at giving >me some produce this year when others around me are wailing their losses.
Just put the whole property under canopy. Just need to send Armbruster an email saying you need a 5 acre clear canvas. :)
jt8
If i hadn't caught up to her, i think the killing part would have directly followed the chasing. The chicken was clever enough - i'm not sure if that's an oxymoron of sorts - to get under a vehicle until i caught Spreckles' attention...by her collar.<<put the whole property under canopy>>I think a LOT of folks are considering the 'bubble' approach to gardening. I was envious earlier of my neighbors' 30 gpm well of sand-free water. They run it 8 hours a night to keep their area green, including the veggie garden. Earlier in the season their garden looked fantastic, but as the summer progressed the hoppers started stripping their plants, too. Which is why i was taking them the permethrin dust when the dog thing happened...I turned another neighbor on to the dust, but it's too late for his to make a comeback, i'm afraid. It's feeling like Fall here now. We tried to get the new HH cover, the Griffolyn, on the original HH yesterday, but it was just too chilly to get it to stretch out properly, so we'll make a run at it today while the sun is out, even if it's not that warm. It's a helluva lot sturdier stuff than visqueen...not sure i'll be switching it out with shade cloth, as cumbersome as it is. Maybe i should make shorter hoophouses....
I need your addy for the lilies, and it WILL be attached to MALO.
Got over the fence AGAIN, he's more than I can deal with, feral in nature, and I have never had such a problem child as this..I'm up to 9' tall with 2x4" welded wire fence, 2' chicken netting on a downward slope INSIDE the 9' ...
I LOVE this dog, but he's beatin me up, big time..shock collar or ele fence is all I got left..I'm loosing it with him..my project child is making me nuts.
He's hitting 50lbs, and all sinew and gristle..nutless but still ornery as hell..I need halp here..
Oh, get thee a HONDA powerplant for that..low oil cut off is a god send.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I stopped by the mechanic today and got sorted on an engine, though not a Honda. It doesn't appear to be a low oil problem, just a shed-happens problem. Anyway, as i was pulling out of his driveway, i saw THOSE LILIES beside his house! They grow here! and how! Very pretty, indeed. I think asking to dig up his garden might not be a perk of doing bizniz, however, so i'll send you my snail mail. If you sent Malo, maybe our mutts would cancel each other out?? Sheesh...i know when i first had Reese's, lo, these many years ago, i was on the verge of dumpstering him. I didn't have a dog, didn't want one, and he was ruining my life. After a year, he'd stopped chewing, ran off someone who tried slipping in the front door unannounced in the middle of the nihgt, and became the World's Best Dog. Patience, my friend, deep breaths...Now i have to go attend to my wounds. Someone said i could have their pears and i recalled i used to be a pretty good tree-climber when i was about 12. So much for age bringing wisdom!
Aha. I gotta wait to dig, our ground is like concrete at this time, short rain yestiddy, but way below what we need.
I swear , I LOVE this dog, but his attitude is pushing me over the edge. It just seems so ironic (?) that HE was the ONE I bonded with at his birth..now look at the mess he has become.
He is standoffish, recalcitrant, unruly, and a genuine PITA.
Patience and Fortitude, my lions.
be well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Maybe having his own pack makes him reluctant to bond to You. I guess i was ahead of the game by salvaging all these animals, so i looked a lot better to them than what came before. The exception is the terriorist i gave a dog away to XH2 that i just couldn't get along with. He had an Irish Wolfhound (Piper, actually) who put him in his place, so i heard, in ways i couldn't/wouldn't without being physically abusive, and that's no fun for me.It's hard. Some dogs don't make it. Don't beat yourself up, cuz you saved a whole bunch, no matter what happens.
Yeah, I know..
on the bright side, I gave Antney to Pam, my daughter in Pa. She re-named him Zaire ( HUH?) anyway, she's 15, her "dad" is my age and adopted him as HIS dog..she sent a pic last week of how BIG he is ( he is one of the Rott looking ones, if you remember) and no kiddin, he's bigger than Malo.
Ivory is pushing the envelope of food consumed in one day, he is probably a poster child for dog eating dis-order and getting fat as a tick.
Flan, well, he's the cutie and cuddly one, with a kleptomaniac tendency, he steals stuff..anything. He'll cause a distraction and when the others are looking away, he swipes the ball, toys, chewies, and hides them under the futon..I got a whole stash of his stuff to redistribute daily..LOL
Winter will be an exercise in itself, I just can't wait, 3 dog nights is in my future.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
See? If you had a Hoophouse... LOL...We just wrassled the new plastic material, "Griffolyn", onto HH1. Something of an ordeal. I wished i'd had McDesign's DW here to help me swear as i was getting behind in word count as the wind picked up and i though we were all headed to Bismarck.We actually started last evening, but the piece was too small. <G> Today in the sun, it had relaxed off the roll and we could cover the span easily. I thought they'd gypped me on width. I'm pooped. Don't think i'll be changing it out with the shade cloth twice a year, no way. I guess the shade cloth goes on CL eventually...
I'll get mine up in the fall..looks like my peppers may need a home before first frost hits, I'll be dragging them out of the ground and pot them up.
I once had a peruvian purple pepper plant ( say that 10x fast) last 5 years doing that. The cat peed on it once and killed it.
I didn't eat them that year, ( the peppers, not the quats) they had enough catpee smell to override the pepper smell..that's something right there.
Gonna win some kinda prize this year, I have the UGLIEST 'maters I have ever seen, no kidding, they are so ugly, the cats try to cover them up. Thats ugly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
When it gets light again, i'm going to harvest a Cherokee purple and show you UGHly. Best tomato i've eaten thus far in my life, though.
Your pup troubles reminded me of a perticular week with my
problem child.
She started the week by running away to town. She spent the day
visiting every restaurant for miles! After I finally found her she looked like a stuff pig.
Two day's later I come home and she has eaten the crotch out of
every single pair of pants I owned! I got some new nicknames at
work I can assure you. Then I blew a brake line first thing in the morning. Had to go to work but didn't want to drive with her and no brakes. So I put her on a leash
by our tent (Tent was our house then).
Well apparently that is considered extremely rude in dog parlance.
She snapped all the pole into six inch pieces, ripped the tent and fly
beyond recognition, piled it all into a neat little package and
took an enormous #### on top.
So no pants-
no truck-
and no house- Terrorist each and every one
Just thought i'd post the happy ending...or beginning, as the case may be. This one starts a lot more easily. I talked to the mechanic about an electric start, but he talked me out of it and that's a good thing.
I made sure to get the old engine back so i can 'practice' on it. I'm not convinced it can't be fixed, only that my mechanic didn't want the hassle. Even if i only succeed in tearing it apart, i'll know more than i do now.
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Edited 9/8/2008 9:37 pm by splintergroupie
Another use for a billboard tarp like i mentioned collecting earlier in this thread:
I had to find the hole i put in an air mattress at Peachfest, so i draped a tarp in the bed of the old Toyota truck and put about 8" deep of water in it to submerse the mattress and find the leak.
Mission accomplished. Now i'm off to park the portable pickup pool in a prominent place for party rentals...
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Edited 9/8/2008 9:45 pm by splintergroupie
Now i'm off to park the portable pickup pool in a prominent place for party rentals
View Imagejt8
Yeah, and it doubles as a skating rink in a week or two more!
Good luck with the new power plant. The engine, while tilling, is not at the best angle for oiling of internal components. I would suggest keeping the oil level just a little fuller than indicated with the engine leveled.
The operative word is a LITTLE fuller. Too much oil is not good either. When you get the tines down full depth, 8 inches IIRC, the front of the oil sump can't have much oil available to it. A little more oil might compensate for this design flaw.
But, what the heck, the first engine lasted through 10/12 years of regular use. That would probably be considered normal. I don't know.Any way, it is good to hear from you and to know that you and the tiller are ready to go to work.Keep us posted. I'm sure a lot of folks here are interested in this thread.Chuck
I never really looked forward to tilling before, but i'm kind of anxious to get going on a few projects before the snow flies. I want to till up an area for the squash next year with some of that mushroom compost in it. I've found i have quite a few woims in soil in the HH, so i'm sold on adding a lot of material to the sand i have to start with. I'm repeatedly shocked when i go in the HH and see leaves becoming pale and brittle. Didn't i just lay out those drip lines a couple days ago? All that remains growing are tomatoes, beets, cabbage, and carrots...and some brussel sprouts that are really trying my patience. <G>
Do you take the wheel weights and chains off for tilling? Or does that improve tilling performance?
jt8
I'm leaving the weights on the wheels. On the last tiller i used, an Ariens, i hung weight on the handle bars so that it was more stable. The weight works a lot better at the wheel level than up above.
Yeah, and it doubles as a skating rink in a week or two more!
That is weight to keep the truck from sliding in the snow.
I'm leaving the weights on the wheels. On the last tiller i used, an Ariens, i hung weight on the handle bars so that it was more stable. The weight works a lot better at the wheel level than up above.
The balance must be a little different on yours. Mine doesn't even need you to hold on (unless you like straight tilling).
jt8
This new engine is lighter, i assume, being AL instead of CI. I'm not sure if that changes anything about its tilling ability, but it makes the weights seem an even better idea. What kind of engine is on your tiller?The fact the old one was iron is the reason the guys at the shop told me it wasn't fixable; they started off on a rant about environmentalists prohibiting parts from being available for repair. I'm not willing to get into a philosophical debate with ex-loggers over environmentalism and i'm also not quite ready to believe it can't be fixed, which is the reason i asked for it back: i'll try to find my own parts and do it myself at my leisure, maybe learn enough that i don't have to rely on other people so much for my mechanicking.
What kind of engine is on your tiller?
It is not the original; dad had a bad habit of not putting the tiller back in the shed, but instead leaving it out in the weather for months at a time. I believe the current engine is a Tecumseh.
If breaking ground for the first time, then yes, I do hang on to the handles to keep it from lurching around...and I probably keep downward pressure on the handles (haven't tilled anything since Spring). We've never had the wheel weights, so I wouldn't know if they help or hurt.
I don't know if the way I do it is the 'correct' way or not, but I tend to make many passes. Just sorta ease into it and keep going back and forth. I don't try to do too much on a single pass. The first pass might barely scuff the surface. I do the whole patch at that depth... maybe give it a second or third pass before I crank it down a notch. Maybe the last pass at that notch I give a little downward pressure on the handles.
Then down a notch and give that 2 or 3 passes over the whole patch (or more if necessary) and down another notch. You can keep it up until you have almost a snow-like consistency that you sink right into past your ankles. At that point I'm usually walking next to the tiller and just guiding it with one hand.
On a side note... as I've gotten older and my hearing worse, I now typically wear hearing protection when tilling. jt8
Yeah, the ear protection is necessary...so i can hear the iPod! <G> Tilling to music really makes the job a lot more pleasant.
Out in the yard when i was tilling in the 50 truckloads of manure i hauled in a few years ago, i would till one direction, then go at 90* to the first pass. I have easy ground to till because i'm on a big sand bar left from the glaciers, but it can still get baked into a rock-like substance in the summertime.
When we first started tilling with the Horse there hadn't been rain for a while, so one of us sprinkled the path in front of the tiller while the other tilled in order to keep the dust down and break up the clods. We were taking a very light pass just to break the top so the water could get into the ground just before the engine croaked. It's rained quite a bit since that attempt so i'm anxious to get out and make little clods out of big ones soon. I've got some Nurse Ratched/Kathy Bates duties for a couple days, though, before i can get back to it. The weather now is absolutely perfect for working outdoors.
I'm thinking i'll just pull all the vines and stuff out of HH1 and stuff the beds in HH2, then cover with a thin layer of compost - sort of the Hugelkultur method. I did similar with the old broccoli and cabbage stalks in one of the beds in HH1. Although the level of the bed dropped considerably over the course of the summer, the plants in it were completely healthy, not Nitrogen deficiencies noted, and worms showed up. I like this 'composting in place' instead of all that turning and moving it.
I finished getting doors and vent openers on my second hoophouse. This one is just for Fall and Spring, won't be able to take the snowload, so I plan to take the plastic off in a couple weeks. Tomatoes and cilantro inside, with radishes and chinese cabbage coming along. Both got new doors and vent windows, photos don't show the finishing touches. But I'm seriously considering a dome with twinwall polycarbonate for those fresh salads all winter!!
Looking good! Is that the Tufflite covering? I can say from experience with my HH this year that pulling the plastic that tight - it looks like you've tuned it to a high 'C'! - deformed the end hoops. On the second one i'm doing (project on hold while i work on house before it snows!) i'm going to make solid ends instead of just the framework, hoping to stop that from happening. I also found that the plants on the very ends were really getting baked from too much sun.
I didn't get a winter garden in and frankly, i am shocked - shocked, i tell ya! - how much food i already have! I have a couple endives still plugging away out there, but most of the place is cleaned out.
We're supposed to get a hard frost tomorrow night...last hurrah for the posies on the Blumenhugel.
Yes, that is the Tufflite plastic on the hoophouse, then the woven greenhouse plastic on the cattlepanel house. I did pull it tight, but it seems to show that more and more as time goes on! Hate to have to take it down for winter, but there is only one layer against the PVC, and the company does not recommend that. I've used Tufflite against PVC on smaller cloches, Spring and Fall, and sometimes thru the winter, and still going strong after 5+ years.Garden picked and stragglers covered for frost tonite. Yes, it is almost overwhelming how much a garden can produce! I understand now how some people pray for frost...
Our salad bowl-to-be
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Forrest - in the sunny south
Edited 10/12/2008 9:12 pm ET by McDesign
Watch out for mice!
They Formed a commune in mine!
Think it was the straw.
Nice & simple, lots of light...I can see it brimming with lettuce, radishes, arugula, etc, etc. Low to the ground mean it will be warmer than a tall greenhouse...a real advantage! I need to build a little structure over a rock garden patch I've made on the south side of my basement...nice to pick greens just outside the door.I hope everyone can see the advantages of growing their own salad these days!
DW is going to make you put those storm windows back on the house in a month or so.
;)
jt8
Are you done with your "hooping" for this year?
I have, Chuck. I've cleaned out everything but the bean vines in the old HH and tossed it all in a 'rough' new bed to break down. I have two beds formed for the next HH, but then i turned my attention to getting firewood in and storm doors and windows attached this year bec it's supposed to be an El Nino (severe) winter, or so i heard. So many folks have expressed interest in this project, due to these interesting times, that i'm considering giving a workshop next spring on making them, using HH2 as a laboratory and HH1 as the model. 'Erica' is snug as a bug under her billboard tarp, prepped for winter, but i've bought some trusses and 2x6s to be del'd tomorrow to make a garage for storing all this garden paraphernalia i'm collecting. Thanks for asking! How are things in Kansas, Dorothy? ;^)(Hope this posts...I'm persona non grata with the gods again, hence the altered ID. )Colleen
<I'm persona non grata >
so, that's like "person without cheese?"
Forrest - not up on my Latin
Oh, i have cheese, lotsa cheese...and the rats seem to keep following me. <G>
I enjoyed the thread, and hope you'll pick it up again next year. Just a quick thanks from "faux Kathy"(-:
Hey, if this is the Kathy i think it is, welcome to Chlorophyll Nation!LOL, yes, hopefully whatever the mods ate that isn't agreeing with them will be out of their systems by next Spring. <G>~Splintie
Tell me again how the hoop feet are anchored...please. I am getting ready to erect one, oh..that came out wrong..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
So is Splinty a "Prophet" or a "Profit" ?
Both.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
Feet-anchoring: depends on whether you're anchoring them to beds or not. My first HH just had 1/2" PVC pipe 2-1/2' long pounded abt 2/3 of the way into the ground, then the 1" PVC pipe slipped over. When i pulled the plastic over, i wrapped long 2x4s in the selvedge on each side, then screwed through wood and plastic into both the stake and hoop of PVC. The weight of the whole shebang kept it anchored to the ground AS LONG AS THE DOOR WASN'T OPEN. We lost one mid-way through construction by going in for lunch break when a wind came up. We got some spoiled hay bales one year and piled them around the base, which helped a lot. You probably won't have that kind of wind, though.The way i did this HH is back near the beginning pix. I drilled a 1-3/8" hole in the gunnel (sp?) screwed/glued on the top edge the bed, pounded the stake down through it, and slipped the 1" PVC over that, so the end of the 1" pipe is level with the bottom surface of the gunnel. Then i screwed a long one through the gunnel, hoop, and stake. It may not seem like you'd need the stake in this instance, but it really sturdies up the hoop, keeps it from being floppy.I also got more spread/height on the HH by raising up the ends, but i'm only 5'-5" short. At your height, i'm thinking you could still get a single, narrow, raised bed in there...maybe. <G>(Thanks for wishing me back without having to be in drag, but it looks to me like killing the Tavern is the mod-ern plan. Nothing worse than a churlish poor loser with a clipboard...GObama, LOL!)~splinty
I just wanted to rattle your cage and see if you were still with us.
As tenacious as you are, I'm sure that you will find a way to keep blessing us with your wit and wisdom.
If you wind up trying to push snow with the tiller, please take and post some pics. Some folks have never seen such a sight!
By the way, KC is in MISSOURI. Dorothy hangs with the jayhawks over in Kansas.
Hunker down and get ready for winter. You'll get it way before we are affected here in the central midwest.
I'm looking forward to the resumption of this thread in the spring.
Chuck
I'm still trying to figure out if she ever got it out of her truck?
Without all those young men who helped her put it in......Dunno if she found enough "hunks" to remove it!
I backed the truck up to the road cut for my driveway and pushed the tiller gently out, easy peasy. Gravity...don't come home without it!Although you 'hunks' would have been nice to bring home, now that i think more on it...
you look familiar . . . do you have a couple of sisters?
No sisters, but i have a few Doppelgangers, now... <g>~splintie
Edited 11/8/2008 3:34 pm ET by tenacious
California-style hoop house...
The winters are pretty mild (we do get frost and the rare low in the 20's) so it's a great time to plant all that stuff that doesn't like hot weather. Why the hoops & bird netting (and if you look closely the 1/2" hardware cloth)? The weather doesn't slow down the white-crowned sparrows, racoons, skunks, possums, deer and gophers. This is the only way I'll get a crop!
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Cheated a bit and bought a few 6-packs, since I got the beds in a bit later than planned. Strawberries, beets, lettuce & (2nd bed) broccoli.
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And a bit of an experiment that is going great so far - sowed directly. More broccoli, chard, spinach, fancy lettuce & 3 kinds of carrots. There's room in the middle bed to transplant some of the bigger stuff from this bed.
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I also sowed cover crop in all of the summer beds, to juice things up for next year. Cover crop is the closest thing I've found to the gardener's miracle cure. Mix of grasses and legumes, with innoculant to boost the available nitrogen.
Edited 11/10/2008 10:17 pm by wrudiger
We're not in Kansas anymore? Good thing we rendezvous'd at the fest instead of me trying to find your house, eh? <g>I just moved the snow-plow attachment again and considered putting it on in preparation for winter. It's been raining like mad, so if it turns cold i'll be appropriately motivated. I am prepared to be prepared!I've been more concerned with schlepping scrap wood from the truss plant about 2 miles from here. I have two Toyota loads of 2x material waiting to be chopped to stove size, to add to the 4x4x15 pile already started. It's free, no bark to deal with, very clean in the house, and all Doug Fir, much better wood than the Lodgepole everyone sells around here. I've been parsimonious with my propane and wood, so i'm lately feeling pretty profligate with all these BTUs that are mine-all-mine just for picking them up off the ground and tossing them in the truck. Still, it's enough to make a grown woodworker cry to be cutting and burning 3' sticks of clear, VG fir.I'm getting a large trash can of sawdust from them once a week for compost, too. It needs nitrogen to break down, so i schlepp a honey bucket daily to dump on the sawdust.Except for chocolate, i'm pretty sure this could be a self-sustaining biosphere.I had a verbal agreement to obtain brewery wastes from the new brewery opening up in my little town, but it's past time for the first batch, so my guess is he found a farmer who wanted it even more.Hurry spring!
You've got one h*ll of a machine .............. always regretted the day I sold mine. Yours has the bumper bar, which in close quarters is a good thing. Lent my first Troy Bilt, a smaller Pony, to a neighbor who almost tore the tank and carb off the tiller. Brother tore a hole in his tank on his Horse. John is right on the money about starting shallow and working deeper, especially previously untilled ground .......got bit pretty good and almost put the tiller through the neighbors fence before I learned that. The last pass you can stand to one side and not pack the soil down. Don't know if you have it but the hiller/ furrower attachment makes short work of making raised beds. Over $100 new but you may be able to snag one on eBay for reasonable price.
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery" Sir Winston Churchill
Yes, IBEWChuck had a furrower attachment with this one and gave it to me, along with a blade which i expect to get plenty of use out of this winter pushing snow. I have a lot of room here so i hope not to run into anything, but ya never know!
My yard is virtually pure sand that i've been adding stuff to for 5 years with little movement in its nature, hence the raised beds for the garden. Lucky for me, no rocks, but unlucky in that there are no nutrients in it unless i add them. This was all a glacial lake bed at one time. My house sits on a long bench formed at the terminus of a glacier called a 'moraine'. Nice view from up here...
However, i just scored a big coup with a local brewery that recently rec'd its occupany permit. They'll let me have all their spent stuff when they start up in a week or so. The fellow i spoke with said there will be 400# after each batch and he's starting 4 batches. I'm stoked to get to tilling 1600# of those goodies into my sandpile!
I picked up some hedge apples to send to a friend. Did you want me to send you a few of them too? If so I need a mailing address. My email address is:
[email protected]
jt8
Thanks, i'd love to give it a shot, even this far north. I'll send my address, hopefully from this new iMac Mini i'm wandering around today, trying to find my bearings. Let me know if you don't get it and i'll re-send from my rusty, trusty PC.
What's the deal, did this thread die like summer's crops?
jt8
If you aren't embarrassed by your offer, then you are offering too much! --DanT
Hey Colleen - you OK?http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I think she was packin to head south for a warm up.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I've been fighting off the urge to fire an email your way. I got a sheet of Micore to use with the wood stove hearth. Somewhere in the back of my head is the thought, "I could mount that Micore to 1/2" plywood and ship it to Grant to have him cover it with hammered copper." Somewhere in my archive I have those pics you posted of the hammered copper counter. Pretty spiffy, even if I wouldn't use copper for a counter myself.
But since you were not enthusiastic about the idea of a copper hearth, I've been trying to build my own enthusiasm for making a tile hearth Can't overlook the advice of someone who knows copper AND hearths when they suggest that they don't like the combination.
I would be a lot happier about tile if it were being permanently mounted to the floor rather than making a removable hearth. I have visions of a lotta work just to create a heavy SOB that is hard to move into place without causing damage to something.
But I sure as heck miss having the wood stove in operation, even if it has been very nice weather this week.
jt8
If you aren't embarrassed by your offer, then you are offering too much! --DanT
Duane's correct...i just got home from a little over a week in Florida, with a day in Mobile and Dauphin Island thrown in for good measure. I learned that Mardi Gras actually began in Mobile as a celebration at the end of the Civil War, started by a fellow named Joe Cain. We ate lunch in the graveyard where he was buried. Lots of the graves were inhabited by folks born in the 1700s and few people lived past 35 years. I keep tellin' you guys all that BBQ isn't good for a person...;^)
Hey, thanks for calling me back to this! I'd missed wrdiger's last post to me and his wonderful pics during the Post-Election Moderator Melt-down when i was performing my virtual sit-in with all the aliases. That seems so long ago... It's pretty quiet here. I have seed catalogs piled on the side of the tub, squeezed in between my thin-set mixing bucket and a tile saw, but the only real gardening is taking place in the solarium; i have about four dozen amaryllises of various shades, so i have blooms for about three months in the dead of winter, which is quite welcome.They are self-fertile and making seeds, if you or anyone would like some. It takes They're perennials in the South and very tough bulbs, native to S. Amer., actually. Here's a good article, but i experienced no trouble getting the seeds to grow in soil, unlike the reputation they have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippeastrum I just had a white one with a green throat bloom yesterday, unusually scented, too; i sure hope that one makes seed! Last year i moved the amaryllis in pots out to the HH, shaded under the other foliage. They like sun, but direct sun can scorch the leaves, though they seem to have survived very well. I suspect that i have more blooms this year for having them do so well in the HH over summer. I was just today giving some thought to planting your osage orange seeds i pulled from those "green brains" you sent. I'll wait another month, i think, to plant them, so they don't overwhelm the house if they take off before they might survive out in the HH.So...there are spring stirrings in this thread after the long winter!
Makes a nice contrast. The bloom and the snow.
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Now that we've got you back on topic, allow me to side track...
In a different thread, you were talking about your sun porch slate floor. I believe you said that you sealed it before you grouted. Do you remember what you sealed it with? I presume the sealer kept you from filling in all the slate pits with grout?
jt8
If you aren't embarrassed by your offer, then you are offering too much! --DanT
Well, my dirty little scrounge secret is that i pick up coatings for free at the hazardous waste days sponsored by the city to decrease chemicals in the landfills, and from the home RE-source store in Missoula. Meaning: i have quite a few different cans of things. I just rootled around in my racks in the shop and saw a partial 1/2-gallon of Do-It-Best brand of "environmentally responsible formula waterproofing sealer". (Catchy name, eh?) Anyway, i opened it and the odor was familiar, so i think that's what i used in the solarium. I believe i used Thompson's on my hearth, which also worked, but could use a few more coats to bring out the colors. The Do-It-Best brand has stood up very well to dogs' toenails, my boots, hauling in firewood, etc. I sealed the slates before grouting (use a roller), but i also sealed with several more coats after grouting. I'd planned to use a gizmo that Rez told me about for running silicon into the grout lines, a foam applicator that just hits the grout, but i never got to it and the grout looks fine from just being sealed along with the slates.And yes, sealing the slates before grouting made cleaning them with the sponge infinitely easier. BTW, i use a Scotchbrite/sponge kitchen scrubber instead of a big sponge; i have more control over cleaning out the crannies without messing up grout lines. Overboard? Moi? <G>So what's your project? I'm fixing to restart my bathroom slate project in the quilt pattern which i started on before my trip. So far i have 22 hours into 45 square feet of it.............good thing i don't hire out at this rate, lol.
Hey, welcome back! Here's an update: had a heat wave in Jan (literally - broke the record high 9 days out of 10 running, pretty much ensuring year 3 of the drought) which caused the garden to grow a lot faster than expected. We're on to 2nd harvest - side foretes - on the broccoli from starts and about ready for the first harvest on the plants from seeds. Kinda disappointed on the lettuce - a lot of the lower leaves rotted so we've been harvesting that as leaves rather than trying to let it head up. Cover crop's rockin, bud swell on the plum & peaches, leaves just opening on the cherry, blueberries blooming. Can't complain!
Glad the amaryllis works for you - we both get major allergic reactions almost immediately when one opens. They sure are pretty though!
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That's cover crop in the bed; weeds on the path - kinda hard to tell the difference!
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Edited 2/14/2009 12:20 pm by wrudiger
Thanks for letting me know amaryllis can be allergenic. I had no idea and took some blooms to the local nursing home. No bad reports, but eek! When i left MT, we were having a heat wave, too....49º...but when i got to Florida it was 27º or thereabouts. So much was destroyed in the even colder freeze there the week before. I was in the Sierras above Fresno during the last of the severe drought in the 70s, so i sympathize with your drought situation. My husband worked for the Forest Service in North Fork, which consisted largely of just getting out the dead trees before they fell over and burned. I worked in the local sawmill where any stick less than 8' long was sent to the teepee burner, such was our profligacy then. Clear sugar pine boards up to 18" wide and 4" thick could be had for the taking. I even hauled my SP stash to MT when i moved back; i had drawer stock for years!The "after" shot of your November plantings is just an ode to joy! I look at the HH photos last year from mid-May when the long shots of the rows show barely discernible bits of greenery compared to two months later when a person could barely walk in the paths...magic in every leaf. Do you use row cover on the hoops against frost or cabbage moths? I see you have netting now...is that for birds, or ...? Friends in Orlando ("Jimma" who posted in this thread) have to build double cages around their backyard pineapples or the raccoons get 'em. Jim also raises herbs in an elevated Basil Jail made of hardware cloth...and i thought grasshoppers were hard to get over, lol! We also visited Jim's and his wife's kids in Gainsville, who are building the backyard tilapia pond (in-progress pics posted much earlier in this thread) which will also function as an A/C heat sink and i presume watering source for their gardens. It's such an interesting concept...i'm going to pester them for details as it goes along. I felt such kinship with them bec we both save #### for fertilizer... ;^)You "southerners" keep up the good work of inspiring the rest of us still dealing with snow and ice, alrighty?Edit: the deleted word is "u r i n e". I'll probably get booted again for the work-around...reminds me of being searched/chastised for an undeclared travel-size tube of toothpaste at the Pensacola airport.
Edited 2/14/2009 1:48 pm by splintergroupie
Your garden is so beautiful. I notice your "stone" walls look like broken concrete, upon close inspection. McDesign and I are tired of remaking my raised beds every couple years, and we were talking about concrete. We just weren't sure if they would leach too much alkali into the soil . . . we can take a good bit here in the south, though.
Any wisdom you could share on that?
Laura
Thanks for the compliments! It is a joy; started 8 years ago as a 30 degree slope of nasty clay. Everything is dry-stack recycled concrete.
I've been pleased with the stability; of course I'm using some pretty big pieces for the base courses on the taller walls. No wall greater than 36" (OK, well maybe to 42" in a couple of short sections). I finally finished the last sections last summer; beat my goal by to be done with the hardscape before I turn 60. It was getting kinda old - each piece got picked up at least 3 times...
The concept of leaching alkali never occured to me. Guess it could happen, just not sure how far it would travel or how big an issue it would be. I've brought in 20+ yards of garden soil (actually manufactured - compost, manure, etc. blend) so I'm thinking it will take a while for the PH to change much. Now that you've mentioned it I'll keep an eye on it - especially in the high-acid blueberry bed.
Wayne
I think you're right, it'd take a long time to make any difference. I guess the worst leaching would occur with the new, green concrete. We're pretty acid here, anyway.
You must have a long, fairly mild season, if your blueberries are blooming. I'm going back through this thread to see more pics of your overall layout. I love (covet) the neatness and weed-free-ness.
Laura
I've always thought concrete would make neat raised beds. You could form it into any shape/form. Used color crete... different aggregates.. could make it with a wide enough lip that you could kneel or sit on the edge. Lots of possibilities.
and as wrudiger has shown us, you can even recycle old crete.
jt8
lotsa worse things happen to better people than me every day. --Snort
This is a cool project.
http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/make-hypertufa-trough.aspx
Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.
- Huey Long
Weed-free-ness - now that there is real funny. The rains finally arrived and now... I'm finally starting to make a dent on the hillside after 5 hours of weeding...
In other more established areas of the yard, between heavy mulch and not letting them go to seed I've managed to get weeding down to a pretty infrequent exercise.
So what's your project? I'm fixing to restart my bathroom slate project in the quilt pattern which i started on before my trip. So far i have 22 hours into 45 square feet of it
I'm finally getting around to changing out the ugly $30 stove board for a slate hearth. Originally I wanted to put the slate under the wood stove as well as running it around 4' high along those two walls, but I had a couple dissenters that suggested that not everyone would like that much slate. Also budget and time constraints have further compressed the project. So now it is a simply 54" square with one corner clipped off. If my 'plan' is correct, I should be able to get by with only cutting one tile (and I had the guy at Lowes do that).
Lowes had the natural slate priced at $1.88 for the 12" tiles. I got 2 or 3 extra boxes of it just so that I could rummage through the various boxes and pick out the ones I wanted (took the extra back today). The 6"ers were still a buck each.
I got the pre-tile part of the hearth done today. Plywood, Micore, Hardyboard sandwhich. I used PL construction adhesive between the layers. Also put in 50 or 60 screws, but I wasn't happy with them. The 1-1/4" screws were just a hair long (don't want 'em scratching the new hardwood floor) and the 1" don't dig into the ply much. Probably prior to tiling, I will flip it over and drive some of the 1-1/4" screws in from the underside just so I can say I did it.
Hope to get to putting the slate down some time this week.
good thing i don't hire out at this rate, lol
That applies to most of my projects.
jt8
If you aren't embarrassed by your offer, then you are offering too much! --DanT
That slate is really soft, so it cuts like butter on a tile saw. I have only an $88 cheapie that works just fine for my intermittent projects. Slate also cuts easily with a diamond blade in your circ saw, or even a special abrasive-coated jig-saw blade for curves. You could save a lot cutting those 6" squares. I got my saw when i couldn't face the reliable aggravation of dealing with the Lowe's clown even one more time.Screws...you can always just drive them in, flip it over, then belt sand the screw tips flush with the ply. BTDT, quick fix.
How far down the list is a root cellar? Here's one someone from your neck of the woods created:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1983-07-01/A-Flatlanders-Root-Cellar.aspx
jt8
lotsa worse things happen to better people than me every day. --Snort
Sorry for not answering this sooner...i missed it somehow. The guy in that article did one of the things i was considering, but while he says it averages 52º, i wonder what variation is through the seasons. I have a walk-out basement shop that stays about 55º in the winter unless i heat it while i'm working. Carrots i stored down there, layered in sand in a job box, are getting rotten already, while the same kind of carrots stored in my fridge in plastic bags remain A-OK, along with the last head of red cabbage i picked at least five months ago. I recently bought a used refrig from an upscale kitchen store that went out of business, so i'll put it in the shop or out in the soon-to-be-built, unheated storage barn. It'll hold all my fresh carrots and cabbages, i expect, and hopefully only run for a few weeks a year. I'll monitor it to keep stuff from freezing inside if i put it in the storage barn.
Remember the photos of the hoop houses at the large nursery near where I am working? Well here is a story of what happened to them during our winter snow event and what they have done to repair them. http://www.newsregister.com/article/38168-nursery+crew+comes+through I drove past the place shortly after the snow storm, it looked like ground zero from a bomb of some size. Drove past it last week and it is all cleaned up and back in operation.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Cool story! Oh, man, what a Huge job...but what a tickle about workers piling in to help, too. I can't help wonder why they didn't keep pulling snow off the roofs during the storm, though. I'd have lost my HH in December/January storms if i hadn't pulled snow off several times and shored up the hoops inside. In fact, i'm going to replace the PVC purlins with EMT and support them to ground permanently bec of what happened this year. The Griffolyn plastic, like the stuff at Bailey's, held up great! It really was worth how much it co$t.
What, are you just sitting on your laurels and watching the grass grow, or what? Where are our updates?
Saw a Troy Bilt listed at an upcoming auction. Been fighting the urge to go by and look at it. Got a TB, don't need another. Got a TB, don't need another.
jt8
lotsa worse things happen to better people than me every day. --Snort
I was at the hardware store picking up parsnip seeds yesterday and they had a big ol' Honda tiller for sale from their rental dept. for just $900. I wondered why they were selling bec it looked in good shape and they're expanding the garden section a lot. The store looked like it had new owners with cleaner, clearer organization. A guy actually tried to wait on me, and at check-out i got in a long conversation with a female, in-charge looking person about hoophouses. She seemed genuinely interested, so i got to musing on a collaboration with them where i teach and they supply materials to folks, a "kit" of sorts, at a reduction in price. It's still snowing here from time to time, so i've only planted flats. I bought four trees at Costco, already budded out, which i carry outside in the daytime and bring them indoors if the temps go below 35º at night. It was in the mid-20s last night, so this will go on for at least another couple weeks before i trust them in the ground. The ground is mostly thawed, though, so i can finish the second HH. I couldn't drive stakes until just a bit ago...
I keep forgetting that you're a bit colder up there than we are. We haven't had a really cold day for probably a month. Today is very windy, but probably in the upper 60's. I'll be mowing grass by tomorrow or the next day.
jt8
lotsa worse things happen to better people than me every day. --Snort
Chuck, I thought you might enjoy seeing Erica's maiden voyage with her new engine. That took less than an hour to do...runs like a dream.
I thought you folks might like to see what a soils report looks like. This was taken from my most "evolved" bed in the first hoophouse before i planted anything. I wanted to see if the sorts of things i'd been putting in had had the desired effect or if i needed to fix my process. If you recall, wood ashes had been part of the mix, and i was led to be concerned about that. I've added some dolomitic limestone in the beds this year on the recommendation of this report. It was $13 for a 50# bag which i bought at the feed store. They seemed fairly surprised to find they had it in stock, so i guess there's not a lot of call for it, which made me wonder....I was pleased to see the pH levels are lower than i expected, as i started with fairly alkaline soil. I'd added bit of sulfur to the soil last year to bring it down. Potatoes like a fairly low pH, so i'll broadcast some more sulfur in that newly turned ground (above) when i go outdoors again.The soils test was $35, quite a lot more than a county extension agent usually will charge, and it wasn't too extensive. I didn't have the county extension option, but i've since googled online and found many places to which one may send a soils sample and get a better report for the same or less cost.
I'd say you got an A!Do some more research on no-till - that's where it's really at.
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
"No till" here would mean i could grow anything that would grow in sand...
You need to see the big picture.
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
<<You need to see the big picture.>>You need to watch the whole movie. <G>There is nearly zero organic matter in the native soil. No worms, few roots. The only way to go no-till would be to haul in decent dirt and lay it on top of the ground.The only place i have earthworms - and i have a lot this year - is in my raised beds in the hoophouse, hardly undisturbed soil.
> You need to watch the whole movie.I try, but I always fall asleep before the end. <G>
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
wow that is some view you've got there! what are the mountains in the background?
Those are the Bitterroot Mountains to the west of me. They are rather taller than that pic makes them look bec i sit up on a glacial moraine, with the Bitterroot River between me and them. They make for a pretty dramatic sunset, too!
Lookin' Good! That's the kind of home that tiller needed. Good luck with your garden.Chuck
I just tilled some sulfur and dolomite into the spud bed, then did some experimenting with running it down the beds for the new HH, after making a ramp to get it in and out of the ends. A little nerve-racking, so i'm going to keep my eyes open for a Mantis. Now if they only made an attachment for my 1/2" drill...It's sure a treat compared to my old Ariens. It will be well-used and loved. Thanks again, so much.
I got a Mantis ( New) a coupla years back, amazing lil bugger. You'll love one.
Coop thread has to wait till tomorow, the pics were bad from the sun in the camera.View Image
Truth is, i merely turned over the HH1 beds with a little more shroompost this year. It would be a shame to murder the earthworms with a dirt-beater.
Looks like you ground it up into black snow. Sink right into it like snow. I see the footprints on the ends but not in the row. Were you walking to the side to keep 'em clean?
[edit to add] Am I seeing double, or is that another Troy Bilt off to the left of the 'after' pic?
jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
Edited 4/26/2009 1:33 am by JohnT8
It's black mostly because of the load of shroompost mixed in. Yeah, i was walking off to the side the last pass...so easy to steer! The other tiller is an old Ariens...many of the tines broken off. I looked into a new set of tines for it on the Ariens site and they wanted about $300.
John, i was right on the verge of sadly reporting zero luck with the 12 osage orange seeds i'd planted from various of the "hedge apples" you sent last fall. However, after over a MONTH in the soil, one sprang to life yesterday! I'm looking forward to seeing how they fare, though i'll keep them in pots this year and through next winter until they get a little tougher.
I do NOT have a green thumb, and most of mine came up (but that was a different batch of apples). Just a matter if they will like your climate or not.
jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
Did you plant yours outdoors or start them in pots?
IIRC, I had some of those fiberous trays (2x8 little cups)... the things that you cut apart and can plant directly into the ground (you don't have to remove the dirt/plant from the cup). I put the trays in a jelly roll pan and would pour water into the jelly roll pan. the trays could absorb water at whatever rate they wanted.
I had set a $10 flourescent shop light over them. Just regular bulbs, not grown lights, but I did have it just a few inches above them.
I don't remember how long it took for them to come up, but once they came up they went like gangbusters. Growing them was just a wild hair I had. I didn't have any place to plant them, so eventually had to let them die (by then they were in 5 gallon buckets and where maybe 2' tall or so). If only I'd know, I could have shipped the thorny devils to you and by now you'd have 10' (or better) trees.jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
"peat pots" is what you used, most likely. They are also making them out of coconut fiber now bec there's controversy about mining peat. Another tree seeding emerged today...i guess they just had their very own timetable. I don't use grow lights, either - too expensive - just my 4' shop lights from the last shop i had. One of the invoices i got this year from nursery orders said they "d not recommend plant soil mixes with fertilizer". I'd already seeded my flats, so i googled what the matter could be, since there was no explanation on the invoice. I found some references to potting soil w/fertilizer keeping seed from germinating, so i wondered about the trees, and my phlox was also slow to germinate. Everything else is going gangbusters, though. I just examined my squash seedlings and they're already producing female flowers (!) in their styrofoam cups. I planted them just two weeks earlier than i did last year, and they've become monsters...ntot sure what i'm going to do about this....maybe a squash HH?
The osage orange (hedge) trees are all but indestructible. At my last house I cut some down and sprayed the sprouts with weed killer every year for 3 years, but never managed to kill them. So I'm guessing they will do well if ya give them some time.I'm surprised at the $35 charge for the soil test. But it was a pretty broad test. I'm pretty sure the soil tests I had done on my alfalfa field were somewhere around $10 each. I had mine done at the local grain elevator - Don't know if that's an option for you.
From what i've been reading about osage orange, it's likely the cold that will kill them, but if they grow back from stumps, great....i'd like to grow my own firewood! Incidentally, i stopped by the truss plant to see what the scrap pile held. Not much there, so either someone beat me to it or they haven't been producing much. I looked online and a basic soil test, what it appears i received, was just $20 from http://www.drgoodearth.com/ An extensive soil test was $43 for micronutrients, too. Scott's will do a soil test for $15, and tell you which Miracle-Gro product you have to buy to fix things. <G>There's also a kit one can buy for about $50 to make 15 tests of all the major nutrients and pH, for about $50. It's not the Ferry-Morse capsules i used last year, which i found not to be that accurate, compared to the lab tests this year, if the pH test is any indication. Being a DIY and instant-gratification type, next time i'll likely opt to go that direction.I'll could do more checking in Missoula for a better price, but mostly what is produced in Western MT is hay and alfalfa...no grain elevators are still in operation that i know of, though a few locals still produce oats. The major grain growers are up along the "high line", the northern part of the state that still has rail service. Incidentally, my local area used to produce an enormous amount of sugar beets - there's a very large brick factory in Missoula that has since been converted to warehouses and offices - but that all went away with the gov't support of cane sugar instead.
Just pick off the squash flowers.
Takin' a pass on the obvious joke here. ;@
I always did this with peppers, 'maters, eggplants.How'd it go at the CG?Edit - look what I found!
http://www.constructionsiteservices.net/products/gypsum.html
__________________________________________________
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
Edited 4/27/2009 12:33 pm ET by MikeRooney
I've just taken a quick look at your link, but it looks rather fantabulous for my needs. Thank-you! The Community Gardens: i raised my hand and volunteered to chair the group bec they lost their leader to an actual job. My volunteering was immediately accepted, LOL! The beds weren't set up terribly well several years ago, haven't been used in four years, and there's a rabbit and two-legged critter problem that has apparently demoralized folks. It'll be a challenge...A pretty decrepit fellow came over from the trailer court across the street while i was finishing up with one other organizer and claimed five beds out of 17 for his family. In my very liberal, coddling, limp-wristed way i let him know if he were expecting to plant his flag, maybe he'd like to discuss it while doing some fencing with me. I'm actually hoping to make an ally of "Michael" so that the gardens aren't victims of raiding like before; optimistic, for sure, but i'm stubborn like that.Here are some pix of yesterday's crew, most of whom left after an hour. I found out yesterday the water hydrant isn't working, but a guy volunteered to check into that. I've got 'em all on board with drip lines and black plastic, at least, enticing them with visions of weed-free gardening. The last shot is a pile of charcoal from a burn pile. Husbandman turned me on to "biochar" as a soil amendment, so i was delighted to find this on site, and already started working it in to three beds. I hope to write up hand-outs on various topics, to make the experience more rewarding for those who show up. Some HS kid is supposed to be creating a website for us, so hopefully that will happen, too, and i can disseminate info that way as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BiocharThere are also piles and piles of old grass from mowing the school grounds and playing fields. Great mulch, and we should be able to get a killer compost pile started. I could see the other folks eyeing me when i was swooning over dead grass and burnt logs... <G>One other thing: i asked the folks to pile all the weeds in one spot so i can show them about Hugelkultur.
Edited 4/27/2009 3:04 pm by splintergroupie
Hugelkultur - I'm still tryin' to look up honchadora. ;}I prefer organic mulches. Old newspaper and grass - or straw if you can get it. Make sure the grass has a chance to turn brown before you use it or it will burn. You need a lot of carbon material to balance grass in a compost pile.I also found this on CaSO4.
http://www.constructionsiteservices.net/NRCS/RecycledGypsumAppGuide.pdf
Not sure if this is good news or bad news. You'll know where the sites are in relation to you better than I.
Perhaps you could contact the author and see if she would do a study on your land - or maybe the CG.Edit: I'd be quite leery of somebody named Michael.__________________________________________________
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
Edited 4/27/2009 3:47 pm ET by MikeRooney
Those soils don't have much in common with my raised beds, whose soil is nothing at all like what i started with. If i hadn't had the recommendation from the soils tech, i wouldn't have considered adding the dolomitic limestone to the garden. The store i bought it from wasn't familiar with it and i've never heard anyone else recommend it either. Still, for $13, it seems it can't hurt.If i do anything wholesale with the rest of my acreage, i'll have it tested separately. I'll get a report back with the chemical symbols for silica, knapweed, and sagebrush. <G>
A friend of mine's dad homesteaded in OK in the '20's.
First crop- buckwheat, turned it back in.
Second crop - alfalfa, turned that in.
Third crop - wheat and corn, money.__________________________________________________
I am in favor of waterboardin', but only on people who use the euphemism "enhanced interrogation techniques".
It all depends on whether you can finance yourself to the third crop. A old neighbor guy down the lane tells about his family moving to OK when he was a boy. They planted strawberries and paid off the farm the very first year.
Not trying to complicate your life, but McMurray is having some kind of shipping deal:
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/index.html
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
My life entered some sort of twilight zone. My well was drilled deeper to reach "better" water and is now nearly completely unusable, with implications for the trees and gardens. The foster Labs that were supposed to be gone by now, aren't. I started at 6 this morning collecting donations for the Community Gardens Plant Sale...got home about an hour ago. Still trying to get three vehicles running so i can sell the suckers. Thanks for thinking of me, but i've made a commitment to down-size complexity.
Maybe you should simply buy a place in Montana and live the simple life.... oh wait... that's what you were SUPPOSED to be doing! What part of "simple" didn't compute?
;)
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
The first Mr. Splinty used to say i could screw up a one-car funeral. It's always been a "feature" that i bite off just a bit more than i can chew. I do it for the publicity. ;^) http://www.ravallirepublic.com/articles/2009/06/05/outdoors/od39.txt
That is a great article. You should start a separate photo gallery thread with that story. We want more pics and details.
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
colleen...
r u el boot-o again ?
who got taken down wit ya?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 6/7/2009 6:12 pm ET by MikeSmith
Nah, Mike, just working sunup to sundown every day between gardens, fixing/selling cars, rehabbing critters, and water problems. I've slowed down the pace of descent is all, so very little time is left for reading along to see if your addition has a peaked or flat hat yet, let alone posting much. The rumor of my booting has been greatly exaggerated, but i've corresponded with the responsible party to inform him of his errors. ;^)
First 1/3 of corn is up ( 2 weeks) and the 1/3 of beans is up ( also 2 weeks) added the last 1/3 in corn to stagger the harvest..and added cukes and Poppies!
Various peps and maters in various stages of growth..I think I pulled it off after all.
Been a LOT of work.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
Sheesh man, was it that cold in Ky this Spring? :o)
I did replant some beans and peas yesterday and the last of my corn. Kind of f'ed up since half the bean and peas didn't come up and had to replant but wasn't sure what kind sprouted and what didn't.
I will have cukes out the posterior this summer tho.....
Lefty-Expecting radishes next week.
I tilled up and planted corn when the well drillers left, in the mud pie they left, last w/e in May. If they have to come back...there goes the corn patch.I'm on my second sunburn peel from that week, and now we're worried about frost at nights again. New snow on the mountains. I'm about ready to buy a condo and a lifetime membership to Olive Garden.That said, i had a most delicious salad from the HH last night, and even had a couple strawberries for dessert. Man, that ain't nuthin' like store bought. I also used Nosema locustae in the HH, a microbe that attacks only grasshopppers and crickets. It seems to be helping...they are lethargic and not eating as much. I'm dosing again today, get the straggleers... When it stops raining, i'll dose the rest of the property and get a nice rampant infection going. (cue maniacal laughter...) My animal rights philosophy really takes a beating when it comes to grasshoppers. I used to have a friend who referred in the old days to her war on gophers as "Killing Soviets". If you really stare into a grasshopppers eyes, you see Ann Coulter staring back.
Got any of these in Montana?
View Image_________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_h1vk23kik
I can't tell if that's a microscopic shot of sulfur-reducing bacteria or iron bacteria. Does it smell bad, or does it clog your pump? ;^)
Smells like garlic butter._________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_h1vk23kik
i think the allocation is gone.... carry on with your pics.... thanks to tptbMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike ,
Mine appears to have vanished too !
Walter
Thanks!
I was going to do a photo thread on drilling my well, then one on the CG, as i've been taking pics. It didn't seem like much week-by-week, but now the "before" and "after" are pretty stark. Tomorrow it'll be fully planted...can't wait to see it a month from now! But...i'm stuck in the same pixel poke as everyone else. I see no point in starting one if it's that hard to post. Yeah, i could learn photobucket, mail them to Steve, whatever...losing interest here as the BS accumulates, though.
But...i'm stuck in the same pixel poke as everyone else. I see no point in starting one if it's that hard to post. Yeah, i could learn photobucket, mail them to Steve, whatever...losing interest here as the BS accumulates, though.
Give 'em a little more time, maybe they can get that figured out. Far as I've seen, Taunton is trying to get a solution with Prospero (or whomever runs the actual forum).
Keep taking the photos. Maybe you'll have a slow night and by then the picture posting will be solved.
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
I'm taking photos of everything for my own purposes and i've learned that raising one's voice falls on ears as deaf as they ever were, so i'll wait and see with the rest of you. At least until my ADD takes over, lol...
I know you don't want to hear this, but suspect you really know it - Malo needs to be in an 'only dog' home - he is bonded to the pack, not to you, & too much of your attention needs to go to the others. You can't give him what he needs.
Go ahead, think bad thoughts about me - I can take it! I've had a lot of dogs...
Then the rest will go away. (G)
Actually, we've made HUGE progress , and he's coming around to my way of thnking. He's most definitly better now that the "Parts" are gone.
I let em out sunday am early for a romp, and when he's called, he comes, even with the others lagging behind and momma darting and dashing around like a nut.
I've got the van set up now that when it gets seasonably cooler, he'll be riding shotgun on days I can, and the others will get a day or three as well.
He is odd tho', mostly shy, timid..the vets girls called him "skittish" which he is. He IS the pack alpha for sure. The new fence height has him stumped, so he gave up trying to scale it.
Ivory has a serious eating problem, I need to keep him from Free choice, he's already overweight and the first to tire out when romping.
Flan is the new "Imp" and "Big Dog, in a little body" and he gets fixed the 16th. He's very cuddly and baby-ish, but can turn nasty in a NY Minute. Really tho' we are making good progress.
Thanks for thinking of us.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
You get extra points for trying hard, & having a huge heart - good luck!
I used to do stuff like that - when we had 2 good jobs, we did many a spay & neuter, & lots of rescue - now that I'm older,. & DH died, I'm down to 2 small terriers, both rescues, but easy ones, comparatively.
The thing that will help a skittish dog the most is thorough obedience training - walking at heel around all kinds of distractions, & doing sits & down stays, starting quick & quiet, & building up from there. It gives him confidence in you, & in his own self-control.
A Gentle Leader head collar is the greatest invention ever made!
I'll look for that collar, they're outgrowing the leather flat ones I got months ago, and they are too narrow. Ivory has a wide nylon, but Mal and Flan have the leather.
We'rre getting there, Malo is playing ball at least.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Gentle leader is really for walking/training - I don't think leaving it on him in a pack/play situation would work. Part goes around his muzzle, part around his neck, & the dee ring hangs down on a little extension under his chin - too much of a chew temptation in a pack situation.
But the bee's knees for pullers, lungers, laggers, big galoots who don't want to pay attention - as well as for little tanks, which I have 2 of. In a regular collar, they would rather strangle themselves than walk nicely. Gentle Leader made gentledogs of them!
Spreckles was a real trial to teach to walk with me without pulling, etc. Marty gave me the technique of looping the end of the leash around her flanks. Any pull tightens the leash around her gut and stopped her. She's fine on the leash now, even without it looped around her middle.
I've employed the "Dog Whisperer"s tech. Short lead grasp straight UP. And at first I used the loop handle end ( its just a rope with a spring clasp on one end and a loop on the other) in addition to the clasp on the collar, so it's like a choker, cuz the collars were too big.
Being both Calm AND assertive (G) I lead..they folow alongside. Any pulling gets a sharp "SSSSSSSS" and a correction with the lead. Praise for heeling well.
So far , so good..esp with the two mild guys. Carly is ALWAYS on lead now she won't do bisness in the pen where they do, so she gets walked out 2x a day.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Because Spreckles had been tied with a collar that grew into her neck, her windpipe wasn't right; any tugging on her neck sent her into coughing fits. I like the loop around the gut better bec it's SELF-correcting behavior, unlike the dog associating the pain in his neck with me. If what you're doing is working, though, may as well stick with it.
http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/giardiniere-pickles-italian-garden-pickles,1463,RC.html
note: this recipe includes garlic and calls for the hot pack method. I think I remember that you're supposed to pressure can anything with garlic in it to avoid botulism.''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.'' Plato Edited 8/18/2008 4:03 pm ET by MikeRooney
Edited 8/22/2008 8:11 am ET by MikeRooney
Mornin', darlin'!The tiller is unloaded and the steering wheel screwed back on. I've got to go to town to get some fresh gas and try her out on some MT sand and gravel. Pics to follow!Thank-you, again, so very much. Beside my old Ariens tiller, it reminds me of driving my Tacoma and being passed by an 18-wheeler! It's probably not every gal's dream of rototilling her yard, but i've got plans for ripping up loads of newspapers with my tractor and tilling the shreds in before planting a cover crop of oats this fall. I'm going to start on a ~50x100 area, the sandiest part, to see how the scheme works for making dirt.
Sure it was Ed and not Peter?
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
We've been making this and it's delicious. We use the giant overgrown zucchini and scoop the seeds out of the middle. Slice to look like an apple.
Also, crumbles and brown betties work - nobody can tell that it isn't an apple.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Zucchini-Apple-Pie/Detail.aspx
Thanks for the recipe. I've actually eaten that at a potluck and yes, it's surprisingly good. I was clever this year and grew just one zuke plant which has supplied just the right amount of fried zuke with none of those monsters you discover in the underbrush.
It's about time for me to get my annual call to put in a day making apple pies for the library fundraiser. One year i crimped several hundred pie crusts; you wouldn't believe how you can mess up your shoulders/back/arms doing that!
That reinforced plastic material looks promising. Is it UV stabilized at all? Any idea of lifespan?...I know, nothing like experience on that.
By the way, I'm really impressed with the tenderness of my bush beans this year: Cupidon French Filet bean, Roquencourt yellow wax, and Dragon's Tongue, my all time favorite for eating raw.
UV stabilized. The manufacturer lists it for 30-48 months, but i was sold on it when one of the boatbuilders reported that his buddy had a shed covered in it, ten years old, and it looked like new. It's interesting that the greenhouse sites, like Kitmasters, list it as 8-year or 10-year film.http://www.reefindustries.com/uploads/pdf/specs/tx1200.pdfMy pole beans are a lot nicer than the bush beans...just had my first one this afternoon. Kentucky Blues.
Edited 7/29/2008 2:03 am by splintergroupie
Have you tried finely shredded cabbage with cilantro and lime juice? Really delightful. I first tasted it at a little market in Jackson.
I'll do that tomorrow. Here's my frozen cole slaw recipe. I'm afraid if i don't harvest the cabbage soon the heads will start to split so i've resurrected it.***** Shred a head of cabbage. You can mix purple and green for more color. Add a grated carrot, and onion if you like. I also like red onion in thsi for color. Some people add bell pepper, but i prefer not. Dressing:2 C. sugar
1 C. vinegar (i use white)
1/4 C. water
1 tsp each of mustard and celery seed
A few hot pepper flakes if you likeBoil dressing briefly and allow to cool. Pack cabbage in freezer containers tightly and poured cooled dressing over it. Cap and freeze. The texture is crunchy like a pickle when it's thawed. I lift the slaw out with a slotted spoon so it's not watery.
I'll have to try that recipe! (can I use honey instead of sugar?) Was wondering what to do with my early cabbages (Greyhound, Jersey Wakefield type) this time of year...usually I pack them into storage for winter...this year it will be the Savoy for storage, and maybe those January Kings, if they make up before winter (real long season, real hardy)
No reason not to use honey if you don't mind the slaw being darker. You could omit the water then.
There's a Mexican place near here that serves something similar. They add finely cut sticks of kohlrabi and carrot and diced jalapeno over the cabbage and cilantro. One of the guys who works there told us that where he grew up in Mexico that is what they called Pico de Gallo. I don't know what part of Mexico that was.
I learned a similar recipe froma mexican buddy in NC.
We use Vidaila Onions ( only true ones) and lots of Jalapenos and cilantro..cover with lime juice for a few hours and enjoy.
I eat enough that I actually get ill, I can't stop.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Ah, it warms one all the way through.< insert REZ cartoon here >
Your tiller is loaded and ready to go to the Fest! The back of the van has a bunch of extra pieces and parts. Maybe we can figure out how to put it all together again.
Chuck
Chuck, you have a VEHICLE in your garage! I'm in awe...I'm alllllll loaded up and ready to blast off at the crack of noon tomorrow! I've been hustling! Another 20# of beans and broccoli got frozen today, another five quarts of dill pickles, a quart of raspberries, more cherry syrup, basil pesto, and a mound and a half of cole slaw, then i hacked and slashed the squash into temporary submission while i'm gone. House-sitter has a list of instructions that looks like the NYC Yellow Pages, a bag of pyrethrin dust, and 8 cats and dogs to herd, two of them blind. All i have to do is drive 30 hours...easy-peasey! In sad news, my house/pet-sitter had to have his own dog euthanized yesterday, but my vet was just returned from a backpack trip so the timing worked out. "Jethro" is buried beside the garden gate with a very fragrant pink lilac as a head-plant bec he loved following his nose.
Wow! Very nice.
It's going to be nip and tuck to get the shade cloth on and some bait laid down before they consume everything in the HH as they have outside, though. I so wish i could have left the doors closed against The Plague...
Grasshoppers are a major problem here, too, for people who live out of town. In town we have some bit of insulation from the dry land areas they primarily cover, even though we are only across the street from vacant land on one side.The latest buzz here is that bears have invaded town again. Susie pulled into the drive-up bank the other day and the teller said that moments before she got there a bear had walked through the bank parking lot. Middle of town, middle of the week, 10am. And people who aren't familiar with the rural west think they need to worry about bears when they are out in the woods. HA! The bears in the woods run when they hear and smell us. The ones in town are dangerous since their more limited "personal space" is enough less that you can get way too close without realizing it.This probably won't last, but we sure are enjoying the daily fresh zukes!
Here is the solution to all your problems...http://www.faculty.de.gcsu.edu/~cbader/ghprec.html
Well, it's certainly a solution to being overweight, LOL! They are really high in protein, though, aren't they? Wow...I believe chickens are in my future.
Fantastic broccoli! Such tight flowerbuds, looks similiar to green cauliflower. Your watering must make those huge heads.....mine are never that big.
Just took a bunch of squash shots today, after seeing some wierd shaped Sweet Dumplings out there. Anyone else have Sweet Dumplings that make odd shapes? I've got to track down which seed I planted. It is such a jungle out there, I'll have a time tracing each fruit back to it's labeled source when I harvest!
I agree, it makes no sense to sell produce and turn around and buy it again in Spring. Mine goes in the freezer, gets dried, or eaten raw. Oh, and the cats get some, too!
The strange thing is, none of it looks like cauliflower, and i know i planted some....didn't i???I took a picture tonight of where the grasshoppers chewed through my screens for drying but it turned out a little dark. I'm wondering if my shade cloth will stand up to them or if i'm be out there with a mending kit every morning. Maybe something in stainless steel?
Garden progress (and flop) so far this summer.The bowl of new potatoes I dug yesterday from about 5-6' of row. I don't know if that's a good, bad, or mediocre amount. They are the Cal Red variety and I got the seed potatoes from Irish Eyes. Had good luck with them last year, too.Some of these are shots out an second floor window of the gardens below. The shot with a sprayer going is Big Max pumpkin with a few cantaloupe plants on the side. Pumpkin and various types of squash seems to be the most healthy items in the garden. One shot shows sweet corn tassled out in another bed at the far upper right of the pic.The shot with the concrete walk now mostly covered by squash plants shows how certain areas on that new garden didn't go well at all. I'm pretty sure it's because I put in manure that was still too hot and I put it on too close to planting.The more I learn, the more I learn how much I don't know.Our broccoli seems to have risen like the Phoenix. It seemed that we would lose all of it to flea beetles, then dw sprayed it with a soap solution and, while the plants don't look that good, now they are producing well. We had some for dinner last night and froze a bunch, too. Very tasty. I don't quite understand it since I thought broccoli was supposed to be a cool weather crop. It's been around 90* everyday lately.
I've been intending to learn the "batch conversion" function in Irfanview, so your pics gave me a chance to convert them to dial-upper sizes. I selected one of the first three as they were similar in subject material. Nice potatoes!
I like the overhead shots. It makes me want to drag a ladder out to do some aerial photography of my...well, my grasshopppers. :^(
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Edited 7/25/2008 4:20 pm by splintergroupie
I'm not much good at dealing with pictures. I knew I was likely making it really slow for dial up people.Wish I knew how to put the pics in the text like you do, too.
The easiest way to take smaller pics is to set the quality on your camera settings to a lesser quality (as on my old digital) or specify an output size (as on my newer digital). If you want to save larger files for yourself and make them smaller just for posting, Irfanview makes it pretty easy. I re-save my 640x480 pics in Irfanview at the 99% setting under the "Resize/Resample" option to get the quality of photo i do without making them teeny. I have no idea how Irfanview makes a pic that size look good for so few bytes, but i've learned not to question the Great Irfan. <G>Which browser are you using? I can only post in-line by opening an attachment, copying it, then editing my post and pasting it inline, using IE.
I am not hip to the mighty Irfan, so like everything else, I googled it.I get an offer of several places to download it from. Does it make any difference which one I click?
I can't think it would matter, but i put it on this machine four years ago so i can't recall where i grabbed it from.
Thanks.
What I want to know is, is that a toy truck in the shot with the squash/pumpkins?! If not, must be monster pumpkin leaves. Here's my squash patch again, now you can only see one hoop, the rest are buried.
And a picture of the Gold Nugget's progress ripening those fruit.
I think broccoli probably does best in cooler weather, but since we planted it so early, it has to follow the timeline built into it (days to maturity). I think it has more aphid problems when it's hot...I always hope for cool Fall days, so it will perk up again and continue producing. Cool days always make all cole veggies sweeter, too.
That's the back end of our dump trailer (5'x8' bed). It's down the bank below the pumpkins so the perspective really makes the pumpkin leaves look even bigger. But, yes, the pumpkin leaves are huge! Last year there was a compost pile there where the pumpkins are now. They are a variety called Big Max - more for carving than for pie. I grow them because I like the look, I like to give pumpkins to the families with little kids that we know, and anything left over feeds the expanding worm population in one of my red wiggler beds.Those gold nuggets look really good.
Ive got somthing else . How do you get him to shut up? Thats what my motherinalaw said about me .
I was wholesaling produce which in this instance I ran a route to stores and eating places. Sold to grocery stores too.
Anyway, I delevered to the truck stop and noticed there were four crates of tomatoes that were not mine . I asked and they said those are naturals . I know that but what the h^ll are they doing here ? <G> [my turf]
Seems a guy had a hot house and was selling them. He gave them away for them to try and get an account .
By the way hes eating here right now.
So I stroll out and take a look at him . He invites me to sit down before the fight . <G>
I get to meet him and we become friends . We talk many more times and he tells me about his business . Seems his wife was selling to the whole community. He said it was a second income . HMM. I never went up there and took a look but I had an invitation.
He has a trucking business now and we still meet and have lunch but talk about other things. Reading this thread I guess its time for another lunch. Ill question him about this.
Tim
There's an independent grocery in the little town that i was thinking might be up for trading with me for staples i'd have to buy anyway. The other store is a chain and although i shop there bec they have better variety, the management stopped letting people have the empty cardboard boxes for moving boxes bec they people would steal stuff in them as they walked out the door. Swear to god, that's what the produce lady told me and i got NO boxes!Reminds me of Walmart destroying the Easter lilies after Easter instead of selling them at a discount to me.
Correction - I'm a RETIRED farmer - & I did not retire rich. I will never be able to afford to give up my retirement job at the library!
I do wish you lived next door, though!
I wish i lived next door, too! Which of us will have to move?!?!
Working a library would be my very next choice after working in a garden.
I'm happy to hear you're still enjoying the thread. It didn't have any activity for a bit there, so i thought folks had gotten tired of it and i wasn't wanting to flog it with more pics if that were the case.
I'd better make a move here. I boiled four heads of broccoli, about 6" across, and ate a whole one for lunch just now, and will freeze the other ones. If i don't move, i'll fall asleep right in my keyboa...zzzzzzzzz
Hi! spent a couple days this week helping glaze Tuck's dome. Intaglio wants to see it too so here's a couple pictures.Think he's gonna have a hard time starting much til he gets some of the temperature modifying features installed. Heating up fast! Lots of work still to do, getting the automatic vents set up is the first priority.Also released the ladybugs. What fun! I would buy em again someday even if they don't work. 4500 and they were in a rush to get out. Whole arm was covered with em, they tickled! Very cool.
What is the glazing made of? Is there a choice in glazing? I'm hungry to see more pics, if you have them. Looking at all that clear space inside reminds me of when i was just getting my drip lines going and the thing seemed so HUGE! Now i have to take a machete to it every other day or i can't walk down the aisles. The beans are merging with the squash in the roof.
The glazing is polycarbonate. Both Tuck's and the dome I built for Sarah have the premium glazing which is five wall. About three quarters of an inch thick with four thin airspaces. The domes are either this premium glazing or a much thinner double wall. I am really impressed with the workability of the polycarbonate. It also seems really strong. The triangles you see are around five feet on the long axis and it is not worrisome to stand in the middle of them. They do scratch easily.I always have way more theories than facts. A conversation with Intaglio about light along with my observations makes me wonder if this thicker glazing way be blocking a bit too much light. If it does then that will only get worse with time as the UV will change the panels gradually.Helped Tuck figure out the vent opener install yesterday. Two triangles way up in the top and two down on the perimeter open automatically as the dome warms. I bet you would get a kick out of these openers, they are hydraulic or wax filled. The expansion of the fluid or wax pushes a piston to work a scissors mechanism that pushes the vents open. Thought I sent two pictures, here is the otherThe ladybugs have set the aphids back a lot already. I am hoping some will winter over and be ready to go to work in spring.
Edited 7/28/2008 1:14 pm ET by toyguy
I'm glad to hear the ladybugs are working. In May when i needed beneficial of some sort to deal with the aphids, ladybugs weren't being shipped. There's a month-long window when their natural cycle doesn't allow it. The other criticism i read of ladybugs over the lacewings i bought (that never hatched) is that a couple weeks after arrival they'll swarm and head off to find a new place to settle - part of their nature. I figured they'd be captive in my greenhouse, but only with the doors closed. Just something you might want to think about if you're leaving yours open. You may have to supplement their food source if they are too effective..the number you got is pretty high for the size of your greenhouse, IIRC. The shot inside the dome is just beautiful. Is he going to put in a fish pond like some of them have. I didn't see a waterline to it...?I've seen the hydraulic mechanism before. I think there are/were some bimetalic ones, too. I'd like to find just the piston and make my own as they're a bit spendy.
Can you explain the foundation? Concrete blocks on top of what?....is there a stem wall, dug into the ground there? Or a pad of rock and gravel?
Sure seems that being under plastic makes the sun more intense in some ways....at least my greenhouse is very intense inside, with the doors open wide (and it's small enough, it's not really building up heat). The plants get that 'too hot' look...then I put up shade cloth, and they relax. I even noticed this putting up simple construction plastic on my hoops (over tomatoes) as Fall approached...suddenly they turned yellowish and looked real unhappy, the minute I put up the plastic. I'm mystified, and no one has been able to explain it convincingly.
I had ladybugs showing up in my livingroom this Spring...they overwintered in the pots of tomatoes!
Hi!Sure is fun to see your and splinter's beautiful produce. The tomatillos are really neat, something I've never seen growing, and Splinter's wonderful broccoli.... WOW. I think that she is doing better with the hoophouse than we have with Sarah's greenhouse. The block wall is on a cast footing dug into the ground. Compacted gravel underneath that. Tuck is going to bury the outside partly so that will make the footing farther underground. The structure is really light so the main thing is to not have the foundation frost heave ad such. Once the dome is assembled I think you could jack it up on one side and it wouldn't even change shape. We could easily walk around on the struts before it was glazed.The ladybugs seem busy and happy. The way I figure it if 90 percent fly away there will probably be around the right amount for the space. I hope to get some lacewings stared in there too. There are usually some live one's in the house here over the winter, we tried buying them as eggs this spring and had the same lack of success as Splinter. One old greenhouse hand told us to grow a big messy fennel plant for the lacewings to roost in. Boy that fennel is getting big!
The trap crop in my garden is the perennial kale, collards, cabbages. Their flower heads are just covered with aphids. Something about the plants being stressed/too hot? The young broccoli are producing nicely, without any aphids, quite close to those aphid highrise apartments. More here than we can understand....perhaps if we could put on an aphid's glasses, we'd see it all clearly. :v)
Edited 7/24/2008 2:24 am ET by intaglio
Does anyone know this plant?:
(splintie, you might have an unfair advantage...)
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Edited 7/12/2008 3:58 am ET by intaglio
Would you stop by here and give me a photography lesson?PAHS works. Bury it.
First of all, those taters are a little too young to be leaving their mothers...
Basic Photography 101? Good old fashioned 35mm SLR camera, can't beat that. These point and shoot digitals are awful on manual focus for closeups of our veggies.
Mom expired. That's why I took a look. Found 'em in there, unsure if they were really taters. Kinda small for throwing on the grill.
So you're not using a point and shoot digital? 35mm I know how to use. Can put anybody to sleep with travel slides. Sceen's hanging in the living room, from the bar joists.
I suppose I could pop the digital's CD in and read the directions... IIRC, this one has either speed or aperture priority. The screen menu had a bunch of little squiggles that meant nothing to me. Instead, I dug out my one available tripod, the commercial one's a couple hrs away.
Didn't help much.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I AM using a point and shoot digital......it's a love/hate relationship, but digital works great for emailing digital. The rest of it is a hassle compared to a nice 35mm SLR. If you have a "P" choice on your dial, that will take the best pics in daylight,(or even under lights, if you change the light setting in the function menu). Didn't they provide a paper manual with it? I know photographers who use a digital SLR, and carry their manual in their camera bag (nothing like a computer getting in the way). The manual focus on closeups is a joke...you have to view it in the little screen (hard to see in bright daylight, and mine's only 1.5"). The quiz picture I posted actually shows a fruit which is only 1/8" long (and no one has even tried to guess it).
Your potatoes....perhaps they are seeing more sun than they were used to? They look stressed...tall and leggy like they do when shade grown, but now exposed to the elements, so leaves get cupped, and more yellowish. If I set out leggy sprouted taters, they look like they will die for a couple weeks, before they finally turn dark green again, and get back to growing. Water should help, as long as they aren't waterlogged. (What they really need is more dirt up to their gills...LOL) P.S. toward the end of the season, the leaves will also get that way, as the plants are slowing down, but I don't think yours should have that excuse...not from the size of those babies you harvested ;v)
Dang, you reminded me that i haven't seen mine in ages! They got stuck in a squeeze play between the celery and the cukes and are barely there, so i'll dig them up and transplant to pots to grow them in the solarium. No place in the HH and i don't trust them outside.
The hoppers have made their move on the Blumenhugel the last couple days...interesting to see their dietary prefs in ornamentals. The orange oriental poppies are being eaten, but not the double pink poppies. Petunia flowers are being eaten, but not the leaves. Scarlet flax, gailllardia, stocks, Chinese lantern and lavender are doing well, but the coleus, kale, and lilies are being consumed.
My best eggplants are in a huge black pot on my deck......much taller, and starting to flower. Second best is a sunny location in the garden (tomatoes and peppers there also are doing best...patch of good fresh soil). Worst looking eggplants are those greenhouse ones. Still think it's the soil, even if the NPK test showed soils were equal. And the fact that the soil hasn't felt real rain in 4 years, and has grown the same things over and over. Greenhouse on wheels, next?
Oregon Sugar Pod II is a snow pea not a sugar pea, which is why it wouldn't taste as good as sugar snap.
Sugar Snap is still available. I know Johnny's http://www.johnnyseeds.com still list it. I prefer super sugar snap, more peas and better disease resistance but some say the flavour isn't quite as sweet.
Angus
I thought the flat peas were just immature regular peas until your post.Here's the scoop for pea-neophytes like me who might be reading along.http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cooking/text/0,1971,FOOD_9819_32227,00.html
Here's a shot of pea varieties......left to right: Waverex Petite Pois, Sugar Snap, Wando, and lower right is the Sugar Lode. Petite pois and sugar snap are shelling peas, the others are snap peas.
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The Petite Pois are so fun to grow, take up so little room....and do have the good flavor they are known for. However, they are so small, shelling takes forever.... Wando might still be a winner.
Edited 7/24/2008 2:35 am ET by intaglio
Beautiful looking pea patch! I recall when you first stuck those pretty red sticks in the ground for trellis....very nice play of colors.
I grew fava beans one year. Talk about your aphid high-rises...
Great looking peas! Mine, along with a number of other things in the new "first year" garden, haven't done well this year.I need to keep working on my soil.
Thanks for the correction. I pulled out my old invoices, and found I had used the wrong name. It was Sugar Lode, from Peaceful Valley Farm Supply. Can't find it in this year's catalog, so I wonder if they considered it as poor as I do. Think I'll pull them out and plant a Fall crop of peas.
Am saving seeds of my Sugar Snaps, hopefully that will restock my supply. May have to try that Super Sugar Snap!
We tried Sugar Pod II last year and didn't care for them.
Just how thin is the backrest of the stool at the depressions for the backbone? Also what did you hold the seat itself up with?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Henley mentioned: If I had to guess, I'd say the seat is attached with biscuits also. No sign of plugs, and it doesn't feel like you cut in a shoulder.
I like biscuits just fine, but not for that joint. It has shoulders. Pretty sure I learned that from Sam Maloof. Major influence, including learning how to free-hand parts through the bandsaw.
Like the back of that bench, which is 1/2" at the thinnest part. Tall enough, so it doesn't look flimsy. Do a dry fit, sit and wiggle, head back to the bandsaw. Until you get it right. Which it never exactly achieved. Back's fine but the seat's not deep enough. I used the slabs I had, 2 actually. Really needed a slab from a larger tree, say 36" d.
It also has biscuits showing in the seat. Design change. Was thinking 4 simple legs, like you might see along a trail. Then thought, why not a back? Before I knew it, I had a duplex chair. But you gotta sculpt the seat more than a simple bench. Excavated to the biscuits, kinda liked them showing. Very sunbleached.
Here's a not-yet-topped, or toed, dresser, same tree:PAHS works. Bury it.
Yes, it's interesting to me how a bit of knowledge, when moved about in time and location, stimulates others to take something to a next step that the previous understanding didn't even imagine.
Why do you hate America and Fibonacci? <snork>
and mom and apple pie, too
I did a drawer progression (chest of drawer project) based on the Fibonacci series one time. That gets out of control pretty quickly.
harumphPAHS works. Bury it.
I only had a film camera in those days, so the pics are buried in an album or envelope somewhere.
I also made a couple of matching nightstands. They were considering having me make a stool so the woman of the couple who ordered the piece could see inside the top drawer, a very thin one dedicated to jewelry display, but they decided that her tall husband could reach it for her. Bottom drawer was for heavy sweaters, very deep, making for an interesting sliding dovetail in the front corners.
Flame birch with bubinga pulls and reeding. Marble inserts in the nightstands for coffee cups. Not bad...a little monolithic for my taste - i had to get help moving the two parts to the dresser - but that's what they wanted. The fellow got it for his wife for their anniversary. She'd gotten him the nightstands for a previous one. I got all the triple-hinged, six-panel doors and lever handles out of their house when they decided they wanted a different color of stain; they look good here.
Jeez, you bring up something like that and can't manage a scan...
Here's one from a print. Stashed here in a box if you want one for your hoop house. Chamber music might be nice. Probably that's what your peas lack, something to groove to.PAHS works. Bury it.
Is that your work? If so it's the first i've seen adn i'd really, really like to see more. You've alluded to having a shop, but you mostly post pics of Bertha so i didn't know how good you were.Since we're comparing scars...i only did a couple of music stands, at least 20 years ago, but i did pay someone to photograph this one for jurying into shows and i scanned it once for a post on Knots.
Nice, never knew how many commissions for music stands happened. My experience indicates that serious musicians will spend whatever on the instrument, close to nothing for a stand.
Mine was also a professional studio photo, traded for props. That stand was built for an exhibition (second choice for FW's back cover), a very scaled down version of a black lacquered commission, with lighted lyre desks. Each had 3 positions, according to the instrument. As I was jigged up, couldn't resist a second.
Removing a yoke made it duet, removing both yokes, solo. But then the desk was visually too small for the base.
The commissioned one sat between 2 grand pianos in the corner of a 4000 sq ft living room. Pianos were normally loaned whenever the Denver Symphony needed a pair. Not exactly a starving musician. Used at least weekly for chamber music.
I haven't accepted a commission for several years, busy with other pursuits. Here's one that I came close with, but no cigar. The only bed I showed her that she liked, he wasn't so sure: PAHS works. Bury it.
A little plain, was it? LOL....Anytime i had a smaller commission, like the music stand, i made two. The other part of the one i made was cherry and walnut instead of walnut and cherry. One had bun feet, the other had concave feet. Book-matched platen/desk on the other one instead of my 'fan' design. I counted my time and i could make two of something in 1-1/2 times the time for one, recoup some of the losses on custom work. I did commissions for love, bec i didn't make much money on them. It worked out: barrettes brought in about $235/hour for as long as i could possibly stand to make them. This is why one has employees.A 'fan' pointed out to me that the 'fan' motif repeats in a lot of my work. Here's my bubinga and wenge 'Daisy', since i have to keep this slightly agricultural:
From spirals to Fibonacci to ancient greenhouses....to lovely woodworking.....nice! I like the curves in wood. That petal table is wonderful, if possibly impractical (what falls between the cracks?) (ideas..what about the petals cascading down, so there are no cracks between each one when viewed from above? Can you tell I'm thinking about a bathroom counter? with curves.)
Edited 7/3/2008 3:32 am ET by intaglio
I don't think those people made dirt, so the 'cracks' stayed clean. Not everyone lives as close to the land as we do; that landed in a condo.It was actually the second one i did. The first one, i put a biscuit in the wrong place...ooops. I have a pretty snazzy corner shelf ready to go...somewhere. Wood around water...esp with all those joints...just asking to be disappointed. That reminds me...i was supposed to ship a piece of koa to a gal in PA to play with...dammit.Oh, and rifle barrels have spiral grooves in them to spin the bullet. How natural... :^(
Excellent application for the spot. You knew that.
I did OK on my commissions, never found producing production items remotely attractive. As you say, that's for employees, which I did better without.
My Ohio buddy did quite well with cutting boards and trays, gift items. Then he got introduced to the crate business. Now has a really nice sailboat. Just dumped a nice Z3 for something newer.
My economic subsidy was a totally different business. I averaged 3 wks/mo in my shop, 1 wk out. Income was about equal. Worked pretty well, allowed me 3 mos off every year. Until we decided to leave Denver.
But what do you remember fondly? The great commissions. The ones that inspired and challenged you. No point in starving, either financially or artistically.
Even if I don't have a hoop house.PAHS works. Bury it.
But what do you remember fondly? The great commissions.
For me, the fondest memories of that era are the art fairs and the people i pal'd around with. I just bought redwood to make some more Victorian porch posts to match the ones i made last year. I'll do fine on money with them, but shopwork mostly seems just dirty and loud anymore.
The commissions gave a few bragging rights, but i'm under no illusion that i'm any gift to woodworking. My skills are in graphics much more than feats of construction and happily people liked the stuff enough to pay me for it, but it was the outstanding people it put me in the way of that changed my life so much for the better. Kinda like BT, come to think...
I got fired from three jobs before figuring out i wasn't a good employee. Ever read Somerset Maugham's short story The Verger?
Very nice.Is there still a Primrose woodworking school in Missoula?
Primrose closed in the late 80s.. I heard the owner of that had a bit of a drinking problem, but i think the times were against him. Missoula was extremely depressed in the 80s; that's how i bought my Victorian for $33K.
The whole downtown /gallery scene just collapsed when the mall on the south side of town opened about then. In the 90s, the downtown re-invented itself and there was one custom woodworking gallery in play. One of the principles approached me at a show about putting my work in there. I meandered in acting like a customer, as i always do when i'm considering a new gallery. They ignored me. I left. I think they've closed, too.
Abbot Norris is still in business, has a really nice display at the airport in a large kiosk so i'd guess he's doing well. I'm not sure about Sandy Volkmann, but his shop is still listed.
Had a friend from Helena who was attending Primrose about 1984-5. Greg MacDonald. He built some very nice pieces. We still have a little three legged stool he gave us for doing some chores for him. Ash and purpleheart with some nice turned legs.
Primrose used to have a yearly exhibition. I'd never really seen good woodwork up close before then, only drooled on the pages of Fine WW mag and knew the Biennial Design issues by heart. They turned out some excellent artists who weren't afraid to experiment. I recall some wall-hung cabinets partly finished in automotive lacquer, which certainly opened my eyes up to the graphic/artistic possibilities of woodworkng instead of just making serviceable items and tight joints.I had a roommate who went to a cut-down version of the full program, the director's last-ditch effort to make the school have more appeal and draw funds. I remember Jerry spent the better part of a week sharpening a plane or something while i cranked out hundreds of items. I stayed with him in Denver when i did the Capitol Hill Arts Festival a few years back. He was still woodworking, but paying for it with his engineering gig!
I went to a couple of those shows, probably 84-85, but I'm not sure.They had national press and someone offered my friend $7k for a bird's eye maple jewelry box he's made for his SO of the time. He didn't take it. She did.< G >
Birds-eye is a girl's best friend!
Really lovely music stand!
Plants do like music, classical preferred. Those gunshots probably had her peas cringing.
I was reading some studies on music and plants and the theory was that the sound wavesopened up the pores on the leaves, making them more receptive to foliar feeding. Studies have not indicated that music stimulates plants otherwise, just in conjunction with foliar spraying.
If I recall correctly, the studies on music and plants that I read had to do with the effect on their growth.
I'm sure birdsong would be much appreciated....I tend to prefer it myself these days.
Thanks. The stand was nice. However, the photo's exquisite. David was a high-dollar catalog photographer. Enjoyed trading with me. Not that all his shoots worked out so well. Below is a queen bed. Looks like a cigarette case, not a futon platform. LOL Apparently worked, several kids conceived on it.
I remember reading about studies of different types of music with plants. Classical was best. Mine just get the birds and the bees. Do pretty well with it.PAHS works. Bury it.
Reminds me of an ad from a list of ads that came out humorous and not quite as intended.Dresser for sale Suitable for lady with large drawers.and my faveAT THIS PRICE These new electronics won't last long!
I'd pulled a pic of mmoogie's cat drinking from a faucet for my desktop this past week, but i replaced it with your courgette blossom. Bee-yoo-tee-ful! And so serene...
(Ian was always talking about our courgettes (zukes) and aubergines (eggplant), so i learned to speak English all over again!)
My hand pollinating appears to be working, but one of the Lakota squashes went from fertilized blossom to 3" around in a coupla daze. I'll be visiting the Goodwill looking for nylon stockings to bag and support those fat girls.
Some of my hand-pollinating ISN'T working, and i began noticing that not all the male flowers were dropping pollen; some were open, but not 'fluffy' like some others. I only use the fluffy ones now. Ah, the joy of discovery....not...
Couldn't get good close pics of the morning glories, but you get the idea...they're purty.
I had beet greens and baby beets for breakfast. Oh la la...
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I keep cutting back the cabbage, but the aisle is getting narrower...View Image
In the interests of full disclosure, here is another instance of the sorry state of affairs outside the hoophouse. These are growing up in the middle of the strawberry bed that i planted twice. No idea what the problem is, but i'll plant peas indoors from now on. View Image
Edited 7/2/2008 2:37 pm by splintergroupie
Courgettes is such a comical name, altho I understand where it comes from.
I'm not familiar with Lakota.....do you know if it's Pepo, or Moschata? (scientific name). Looks alot like one we grew in FL, which would have been moschata......it was delicious, steamed...just a little older than yours is now.
I picked the miniature zukes that didn't get pollinated (no male flowers out at first)...and steamed them with olive oil. Now I have a billion potential zucinnis ready to make long squash....maybe next week I'll be inundated.
Cucurbita maxima.http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/61070/From Wikipedia: Four species of the genus Cucurbita are called squash or pumpkins rather indiscriminately. * C. maxima includes the large winter squash (such as Hubbard and Banana) and some large pumpkins, and numerous smaller varieties such as Buttercup and Mooregold. On this species the peduncle (fruit stem) is spongy and swollen, not ridged.
* C. pepo includes the small pie pumpkins, standard field pumpkins, acorn squash, vegetable spaghetti, zucchini, summer crookneck squash, pattypan and most other summer squashes.
* C. moschata includes butternut squash, among others
* C. mixta includes the cushaw varieties.
Strawbale....hmmm...makes me think of an Earthcoop. I remember my friends growing tomatoes in their Earthship greenhouse in January, unheated. A person could dig it into the soil, like a pit greenhouse. Might make it awful to clean out, though....
Looks like it gets quite a lot harder in this climate. I can see me lodging the chickens in the bathroom on cold nights
How cold does it get there?jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I don't know about the Bitterroot valley, but where I used to live near Helena we had 45* below zero. You knew you were getting acclimated when zero didn't seem so cold anymore.
We're not as cold on the west side of the Continental Divide* as where husbandman wasbeen, but i've seen -30 here on several occasions. The winters are getting warmer, but it's the outlier situations that really governs what's possible, like our June 10 snow this year. I've never seen a year where it didn't dip below zero several times.
Summers are much hotter than they usta be with many days over 100*, so i'm guessing the chickens would also be fowling the new pond if i didn't keep them confined to the fenced-in garden area. Sash weights around their necks?
*Many people are confused, even here, that the ID/MT border is the Continental Divide, but the Divide actually comes down about a third of the way into MT. By the time Idaho caught on to our perfidy, the maps were already drawn.
Edited 7/2/2008 3:34 pm by splintergroupie
I could do with a longer frost free season here, too, but those June freezes really stink. The July hard frost is even worse. We had one when we lived up there only a few miles from the continental divide AND at a lower altitude than where we live now at the foot of the mountains.We've been having nighttime temps in the mid 50s. I'm wondering if that's similar to yours?
We usually lose about 25-30* during the night, but if the heat continues, then the house keeps collecting it and sleeping indoors can get sticky. I bought a swamp cooler last year for just the bedroom. The house does quite well if i close it up during the day and leave the doors open until i wake up.It's certainly become generally warner here as our fire season shows, but the June frosts are more unusual. Conventional wisdom used to say to plant the first week of June, but now you have to plan on frost protection. We get a long, long fall, though, and much milder winters. I'd say our climate is like Boise or Idaho Falls when i was a kid and went to visit the Mormon rellies. Why did you and DW choose your location to put down roots if the season is short and gardening's such a factor in your lives?
We stay for a variety of reasons and, despite our fondness for growing things, other reasons trump the gardening. No worries, though. We're learning what does grow and what it takes to grow it.Our climate is generally warm with days in 80s & 90s in summer and days in 20s through 60s in winter. What makes it difficult is that it spikes severely. Almost more like the weather over around Billings. We don't get much cold weather and have had two winters where it barely ever got to zero.When we get it together and build a true solar heated greenhouse we'll have it made to grow year round. It's so much easier to add things to the list than it is to take them off the list.
<<It's so much easier to add things to the list than it is to take them off the list.>>LOL! Eggsactly what i'm thinking as i contemplate chickens!I'm rethinking my neighborhood. I just had to call someone to calm down the shotgun and rifle shootin' jamboree over at the trailer house across the lane. They were shooting clay pigeons, occasionally aiming in my direction, though mostly in line with the next house down their side of the road. I don't think their horse is going to be pasturing here after all.
Acute lead poisoning is absolutely the worst kind. Be careful. Or at least be ready to shoot back. Is your sheriff responsive? I know how it can be calling the sheriff in a rural area and they say, "where, again?"We don't have that problem any more. We not only live in town, but we live next door to the county sheriff.
The landlord must have gotten hold of them bec they put away the toys. Or else it just got too dark to shoot. I have neighbors who practice with targets against dirt banks, but this waving a gun around and shooting up in the air is just plain stupid in an area with houses every 5-10 acres.
Very nice! You must like squash!
Squash store so well for winter. I would have as many (or more )sweet potatoes, if I could grow them. This year I'm trying...so far the 2 in the deep raised bed are doing best. Cats like squash, too.
So do dogs.I've planted lots more squash this year because, like the anasazi who lived here a few hundred years ago, it grows well.Do you store summer squash by some method? I've got yellow crookneck starting to produce, zukes looking good, plus spaghetti squash, heirloom turkish turban, two kinds of pumpkin, and butternut all looking good and I'm thinking I may be crazy. Many here would probably agree. < G >
Summer squash dries very easily and dogs like it well, too. I grate it and spread it on screens to dry, them crumble it into a can and cover it for storage. I toss it into the crock pot after their beans and rice have cooked, with the pot turned off. For human use, i use it in breads or soups by grating it and freezing it in freezer bags. I haven't bothered to blanch it first, yet it doesn't spoil.
You're growing a nice selection of varieties. It's always hard for me to choose just what will fit my garden....I could fill a whole garden just trialing varieties of squash. Used to love the Turks Turban in FL, but for some reason up here grow more buttercup types, and hubbard, acorns, sweet dumpling. Sometimes a turban sort shows up in my saved seed....
Really haven't found a way to preserve the freshness of zuccini or yellow summer squash. But I have grated it and put it in the freezer...for the cats, not me. Another great way is making zuccini chips...slice it thinly, marinate it in seasonings (soy sauce, etc), and dry it. Makes wonderful crunchy chips.
This year I planted white clover for my paths. At this point it is working well....I just sickle it off and use the goody for mulch on other crops. Eventually it will start running some and I'll have to chop it with a shovel. But it does supply nitrogen, can't fault that much.
Those grasshopper i mentioned
Hmm..
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View Imagejt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I'm thinking a flock of about a thousand might do the trick. I like those ones with the on-staff milliners!
This year is shaping up to be at least as bad as last year's depredation. I'm even more pleased that i built the HH in the face of these nasties. ;^(
I don't know if i can get a picture of it, but as i walk through the drying grass, the ground just explodes ahead of me. I'll have to walk and shoot at the same time...not sure how good a picture i can get, but i'll try later.
The water in the pond, when it's newly changed, is about 55* out of the ground...pretty cold even for sunny skinny-dipping, but incredibly refreshing for a mid-day splash and a barefoot wade at the end of the day.
We'll have you getting chickens for next year and then honey bees for the year after. :)
Take care of your bugs and pollination issues.
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I'm still the Head Pollinator of the big squashes bec i need them for dog food, but the smaller ones are on their own.
I saw a few ants today near an antpile...the world may be getting back to normal.
I got to thinking that if you really wanted to bring a civilization to its knees, you'd take out its insects. Forget about saving the whales; it's the krill that matter. We get all het up about major mammals, esp the sexy predators, but it's the teeny-weenies that hold up the world.
This probably won't make you jump up and down with glee, but it might explain things about pollinization of squash plants (including pumpkins): "Research indicates that a female flower needs to be visited 8-10 times by a pollinator for adequate pollination....plant bee attracting flowers such as borage or cosmos next to squash to help generate higher yields." (From growing tips provided by Territorial Seed. Co.).Growing squash in a hoophouse may make for some pollinization challenges. Of course bees are only one of many pollinators and are not native to the U.S. anyway.And bees, nationwide, are suffering from a variety of hive-killing diseases and parasites that are making bee-keeping very difficult.Fortunately, as you alluded to, insects are, for the most part, our friends and, if they can be encouraged to enter a hoophouse, pollination will occur.
Apparently i'm not the only pollinator out there now. I've noticed the insects are coming back in the last week. The customary line of ants marching to-and-fro across the parking area (looking very much like commuters on I-5) has resumed its non-stop commute, and a few more bees are in the raspberries and sage, but only a very few. I've noticed quite a few butterflies whom i hadn't seen in years stopping by.I purposefully left two large female squash unpollinated by moi to see if something would rush into the breach, and they appear to have been pollinated by Something. No sign of the semi-circular cuts in the edges of leaves made my cutter bees, which had been imported by the alfalfa farmers to take the place of the honeybees.The insect population is still very low, overall. I followed a PBS offering that detailed how the bee population is suffering from a wide range of diseases all at once, not just one mite or one bacteria that might be combatted somehow. The researchers said it was more like a general breakdown, an autoimmune disorder among the bees. How is your new hive doing? I don't think you put up the pics of that on the thread....
The hive is thriving, but in a strange way....the bees are starting to build comb UNDER the hive. After the collecting of more than a dozen swarms and stocking and caring for new hives (with the help of a long-time beekeeper) and loss of all those hives, I've reached the point of just letting them bee.The big Cedar just above the garden has also repopulated....it's unreacheable; I'm hoping for the best.Three commercial beekeeping operations have given it up this year.One had about a thousand hives in S. California and were having so much mortality, they retired and moved up here to retire, with about two dozen hives. They've lost half of them already...Big bummer! Fun to do when they're healthy, but very disheartening when they're not...and all efforts continue to fail.
Attached are some photos of what happens when enthusiasm trumps common sense: Early in this thread, I posted photos of a greenhouse a friend of mine built. After I took the photos of that structure, he took my advise and built a small hoophouse....a "half hoophouse" actually, and planted it with tomatoes and tall peas.He's 6' 8" and 300 lbs and will have to dismantle the thing to do any harvest....we've teased him unmercifally, along with his "hanging tomatoes" (which are actually doing fine....it's just the bucket that is amusing.And in his greenhouse, his beds are so high that the tomatoes are outgrowing their vertical space.
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I love the little petunia in the corner..."Hey, wait for me!!!"
I've been reading about hanging tomatoes this morning. It seems there's a huge variation in experiences, with many reporting that the vines try to grow upward, then break off due to the weight of fruit. Lots of folks report they've beat bug or disease problems with the process...hmmm.
DW, in her Home Health rounds, find the hanging tomatoes are really popular with the old folks because they can grow them and harvest them at eye level, without all the bending and staking and pruning we creaking "Boomers" are doing.I've never tried the hangers, but we told my friend John that the hydraulic oil probably keeps the bugs and "tomato rust" off (if there is such a thing).One little tip for you, and others, come Fall; If you've still got tomato vines with a lot of green fruit when the cold weather is about to hit, you can pull the vines and hang them indoors, upside down, and they'll continue to ripen. (One freeze and they turn to black mush).I've done that off and on for years and gotten up to another month of tomatoes.Just spread something on the floor below them because leaves and fruit and dirt will rain down for awhile. I use scraps of housewrap because I can rinse it off and reuse it. (I think I have a couple "Junkhound" Genes).BTW, I also use housewrap under the litter in my henhouse....makes clean up easy with an easy transfer to the compost, rinse it off and put it back. I can usually get a year out of one piece before it starts to get frayed.
That's a good trick for those with extra room; sadly, i'm overflowing out to one of those plastic Costco sheds. Ugh-ly, but i'm paring down possessions as they get installed in the house, given away, etc., so that tarped behemoth should be gone by fall. I don't have the "Junkhound Genes" nearly as bad as some of you, but my problem is starting new projects before finishing up the old. Living so far from a good hardware store, i get stymied on one project for partsz, so turn to what i CAN do, making a list of all the things i have to buy to get going on any one project again. In the meantime...chaos rules.I just picked three enormous bunches of dill, drying in my solarium. The house smells fantastic! I'm trying to decide between planting all the herbs around the pond or fragrant flowers. I'm imagining sitting out there of an evening with a cup of tea and a book, taking in the scents...
I just fixed a 2'-long split in the visqueen on my HH with that tape used for making plastic storm windows. I've never had that happen so soon after installation, though i've seen such splits in year-old material. I'm inclined to think it's a fault in the plastic there bec i see no other splits. I also think this bec the split went in two directions, whereas the visqueen is normally inclined to split more easily in one direction. The split was over one of the green ribs, so perhaps the darker color had something to do with it, though the other places where there are darker ribs are not showing any fatigue. I've painted the upper portions of the ribs white, but i think i'll either do that again or cover them with a white duct tape or similar. I talked earlier about reactions between PVC and polyethylene, which is what i aimed to avoid with painting the top surface of the ribs white. The split is extending beyond the rib, however, so i don't think that's the problem entirely. It could be a thin place in the plastic or some chemical hinkiness causing it to rip in that one spot.Well....i was considering more ventilation, but i was thinking of controlling it somewhat. <G>
I had a roll of 6 mil once that we were laying prior to a slab pour....had a lot of thin spots in it. The dope must have been good in the factory that day....
I actually cut a square out of the roof of my little hoop today....even with the door wide open, it was just getting a bit too hot in there...wilting the peppers and, I believe, keeping the honey bees out.Next year, I think I'll cut closeable hatches in the top in what will be a larger, longer, more improved, more thought-out hoophouse.
I wonder if you are watering enough? We've had a lot of 90+-degree days already, and the peppers are finally getting a wiggle on. When the basil was first growing it had a few sunburned leaves, but it seems to have adjusted to the light and heat now.
It's apparently not too hot in there for any of the plants, which have completely filled the aisles despite my tying up squash and harvesting cabbage leaves to dry. One day soon i'm going to need a machete to get through there... Still, it would be nice to get rid of some of the heat bec i instantly start to sweat out there from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
I don't know what it is about bees that are so endearing, but the loss of them strikes harder than the loss of some other necessary insects, like spiders. That reminds me i have seen lots of spiders this year...must be the vegetarian ones...<g>
Plenty of water....I need to play with the ventilation.When I shoot pics of the exposed comb in the swarm, I'll take a shot of the wild blackberries along my pasture fence. Lots of bees, including an abundance of bumblebees.Bumble bees are very primitive....how they survive year to year amazes me. And they're natives, to boot.
I don't think your hatch is a bad idea at all, but i might also suggest doors at each end next year. I gripe about how hot it is to WORK out there, but it's really not so evil just to BE out there, at least not when one dresses as minimally as i do when i'm home. I know even less about bees than i do about chix. To quote curmudgeon Ashleigh Brilliant: "There's been an enormous increase in the number of things i know nothing about."Your eggs arrived a couple hours ago, in perfect condition! I'm enjoying a fried egg sammich, my first in years. You obviously have some contented hens...this is delicious. Thanks for dinner!
Glad the eggs arrived in good shape!Yesterday, my Vietnamese garden partners showed up with fresh clam chowder and some egg rolls they'd made....I paid them in eggs. Best egg rolls I've ever had! And the chowder wasn't half bad either!Their 23 year-old daughter, home from college, did no garden work, but took about 200 photos of the dogs, the chickens, the llamas....and the bees.Bees are a bit more difficult than chickens, at least to me, and especially with all the fatal hive killing maladies that keep cropping up.Just got back from a fiddle jam so I'll try to post a couple bee photos later tonight. along with some garden stuff.
Oh, yum, i love making egg rolls! (Why are they called that, anyway??) I buy the skins, make up a vat of veggies...the only thing i deep-fat fry ever.I just cleaned out the freezer for the new season. I ran into a quart of mulligatawny (what the Brits in India called "pepper soup") from a longtime ago...still tasty. It was all out of the garden in '05...going to be making lots more of that. I had a lot of cob corn left, but that went in the cooked dog food. I put a couple ears in their bowl to see what would happen. They ate it down to the cob, leaving it as clean as if it were professionally nibbled. If i toss out the cob from one i've eaten with butter and spices, they'll chew it like a bone. Doggie toofbrushing! They are pretty wild about the pea soup, too...wondering if i should have given that up...hmmm... I'll need more shots of your garden...it's been too long with too many people involved not to look rather different than it was.PS: I had a second egg-salad sammich for dinner, couldn't help myself. I'm going to need a dolly to transfer my gut to a prone position.
Edited 7/7/2008 11:19 pm by splintergroupie
I've no experience with hanging tomatoes, but here's a picture of a friend's in a Growing Spaces dome greenhouse.
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Edited 7/8/2008 3:56 am ET by intaglio
Now that's the way tomatoes should look! Harvest should be challenging anyway....each year I crawl under covers to pick buckets of green tomatoes in November......
Well I do have to give bobbys credit , he is hard to out do sometimes but his constant encouragement has spurred me on in my efforts.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I have that Chipper/Shredder I bought from Gunner, you orta take it off my hands while yer east and hauling home red garden tools.
I too had tried everything for newspaper and it seems to make a fine mess of it and cardboard. I have since gone to a big garbage can of water, hunks of card board and paper and the weedeater for a swizzle stick.
The shedder don't see much action. Really, iffn ya want it, it's yours.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I don't know anything about shredders. The only chippper i've ever used was a humongous deal with the Forest Service that ate 6" trees. Sure made nice chips for mulch...
I recall vaguely some deal you had with Gunner about that. Why don't you use it? Gas or electric? Do you think it would shred newspapers?
It's gas. And it works swell for brush and stuff. Kinda coarse , but it makes brush and stuff into managable size.
When I get home, I'll get ya a picture of it, I THINK it is a troy-bilt too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Hmmm....maybe it would eat sagebrush...I take it you're in PA now? How'd Antney take the trip?
Yeppers we are here, just took him to my girls place. He did great , just a lil puking..LOL
He is as happy as she is..great home, all wooded , secluded, and deer to chase (G).
Getting down to brass tacks about fnding the home for Mom now, got a cousin from Philly coming up to lend a hand..
Had breakfast with our very own JER , great gobs of giggles we had..his van and tools is as crazy as mine..wonderful guy to drive up here and meet with us, AND buy Breakfast!
More later..gonna find me some local food I so miss..like a REAL Philly Cheesesteak.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
That stuff'll kill ya. Good luck with Mom. I'm glad you have assistance with that.
"'....like a REAL Philly Cheesesteak."" My fondest memory of Philadelphia!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That was a wonderful idea! Maybe we should submit the tip to Fine Gardening for $$$$$?
Maybe Fine Gardening should be printed on compostable paper stock instead of the glossy stuff. Walk the walk and all that...lol~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
The glossy paper is to stand up to the steam in the bathtub-a-dub-dub!
Poor Dawkins is taking a beating on that count. Thanks for turning me on to him. I enjoy him as long as he doesn't go all anti-religion zealot on me.
How big is your mower? Push or ride? Flat spinning blade type mower, I assume?I have to try it!As for submitting it, you're the writer. I'd gladly accept honorable mention, but they pay for the writing (more than the idea) so you keep any $ you can get out of them.We may sell our old house this year. If we do, it will deny me of my best garden areas and soil. I have two big compost heaps there. Now I'm wondering if I could just push the piles down and run over them a bunch of times with a mower, then scoop up the mess, load it in a trailer and move compost, soil, and all... ah, one idea provides fertile ground for another. Sounds like a lot of work, even with a loader and dump trailer.Ever read "The Pinball Effect"?I received my copy of "The One Straw Revolution". I haven't had time to really read it yet, but I like my initial takes from thumbing it. I figure that reading a book or researching something is worth it even if one only gets a slightly better understanding of the big picture or just a single good idea.
I have a Honda self-propelled walk-behind called a "Quadra-cut" for the stacked blades on it. I was thinking of using my riding mower; unfortunately i don't have a picker-upper for it. If it did a much faster job of shredding, thogh, i wouldn't mind raking it up and using the lawn tractor to pull a trailerful around to the the compost pile...economies of scale.
I'll report back after my festivities today. Still working on my second cup of coffee...
I haven't read the Pinball Effect, but i'm building up a powerful winter reading list!
I looked at the map and after i leave KC, it looks about equal to come back through WY or CO. I'm not quite sure where you are, but if you're on the way, i'd love to visit unless that would be awkward while you're in the throes of moving. Do you get to harvest your garden as part of that deal?
Edited 6/28/2008 12:45 pm by splintergroupie
I have a Honda self-propelled walk-behind called a "Quadra-cut" for the stacked blades on it.
I've got the same mower! That thing is the bomb! I thought I recognized the grass catcher bag. <g>
Ya dawkins is pretty sharp on the evolutionary biology front. I'm re-reading it in case you wanted to dsicuss some issues. <g>
I shred any document with an account number on it. I may have just found a good use for the paper. I hope old paper bills make good compost
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http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
They wanted $350 for it at Lowe's, used and returned. The wheels were frozen and i figured i could get them working, so i offered $275 if it would start. We found some gas, it started beautifully, i bought it. When i got home, unloading it, i pulled it over the tailgate onto the ramp and the wheels just freed up on their own. Occasionally, miracles happen, no matter what you and Dawkins say... ;^P
We moved out of our old place four years ago. It's sitting empty and gutted out. Why? It's a long story in a strange small town real estate market. We're not moving, just thinking of selling. No, I won't sell the garden until it's harvested!Could you perhaps chop the paper and green stuff up with the rider and then go over it again with the Honda to pick up the stuff in the bag?I'll email you RE visiting.
Wow, but if you saw live grasshoppers it doesn't appear time to panic.
If, like Sphere, you lived near an interesting gov't installation, I'd suggest flight. When lots of creatures start disappearing, you really need to understand why. Sure doesn't sound good.
Don't you have some small commercial orchard friends nearby? Good place to ask.PAHS works. Bury it.
I've already got a plan for the weekend, so i've decided to put off panic until next week. I'm going to just ask around, visit a few locals, see if they just don't like me. I came in just now from looking at the salvia...three bees. I guess they aren't all gone. Some of my hand-pollination appears to be working and some not. I looked back through my photos and noted the first female squash flower appeared 22 days ago and only since i've been hand-pollinating are any beginning to grow.
visit a few locals, see if they just don't like me.
We talking about (they) locals or wildlife?
Either way, I have reserved comments.PAHS works. Bury it.
I already know what the locals think. It's the bees i need to impress. <G>
Now I'm green with basil/pesto envy. Trade ya some raspberries.....
Gladly! The basil is like a forest! It started to head up, but i hopefully can get a few more cuttings before it bolts. Then the dill will be ready...dill pesto?
http://closetcooking.blogspot.com/2007/12/carrot-soup-with-dill-pesto.html
I pulled out an old Taunton's Kitchen Gardener magazine, Feb/Mar 2000...article "Testing the Limits of Pesto". It has Sage & Roquefort Pesto, Tarragon and Hazelnut Pesto, and Pacific Rim Pesto (with basil and cilantro). Maybe it's online somewhere? I have so much oregano, and summer savory and thyme....guess I should get busy....
WOW seems like your garden is growing like gangbangers. Seems like the HH is the cats meow.
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http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
Yes, it's performed much better than the last one i built, i think because of the drip system mostly. Next year i hope to have an extra month headstart over this year.The only thing i might modify is to make some sort of openable vent in the middle-top. I'm not sure if that would mess with the convection current it has from bottom to top, since it's on a slope and the warm air goes out the upper end. I haven't been able to keep the doors closed with the screens on to keep out grasshoppers as hoped bec there isn't enough current in that case, making the temps skyrocket. Solar-operated fan maybe...
Does it have to be solar operated? Most green houses/hoop houses that I see around here, and there are alot of them have two fans on opposite sides of the door into the structure.
Saw a piece on OPB about a valley in china that has lost it's bee's the locals pollenate by hand all the pear trees. They use feathers on a stick. But I was thinking that feathers on a stick my be the trick for you. ;)
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http://www.drawingwithlight.smugmug.com
I saw that special, too, and had visions of that here. Only the cherry tree looks flush. There are a few pears, no apples. Maybe Notchman can send me some feathers from his newly enlarged flock...and he can send extra feathers in case i find extra uses for them. =^)Solar operated fan bec it's about a hundred feet to power. And i'm working on this self-sufficiency thing. Next big project is solar heating the house...
My troops got all excited last night when I was reading about those tiny gnawing critters. Not to be outdone, Jack caught two gophers today! (Look at the dirt on his nose and forehead):
View Image
Edited 6/27/2008 3:27 am ET by intaglio
Congrats to Jack. Who doesn't look as though he's quite finished with it.
You sure your fingers weren't at risk? Seems to be a gleam in his eye...
Other than a squirrel, I've never been presented with anything that large. Squirrels are generally missing large sections.PAHS works. Bury it.
That was a small gopher. You should see the large females he brings sometimes (probably leaving some orphans..:.(
He needs lots of praise to finally settle down and eat his catch....sometimes I think he brings them for me! I gave the second one to another kitty.....too many gophers seems to upset his liver.
Not sure if you like all plants Italian, but this year I'm trying a new dandelion, Italian (Catalogna Frastagliata....that's a mouthful, "Catalogna type" for short).
View Image
It has a very good flavor, better even than the French Dandelion. Nice artistic leaves, too.
Edited 6/29/2008 5:47 pm ET by intaglio
Not sure if you like all plants Italian
Unlikely, but I don't remember running into any I didn't. Y'all are way beyond me in experimenting. Mostly I just grow something interesting to eat. Unless some kind soul sends me something new, I tend to grow the same lovely stuff. Which self-seeds to fill all the available space.
These just-picked raspberries on Gruyere on fresh bread were nice. Apologies for the photo quality. By the time I realized it, the subject was missing.
Forgot to mention: Catalogna Frastagliata....that's a mouthful Italian rolls off your tongue. Effortless, once you get the hang of it. Those are soft g's, barely pronounced. G followed by a vowel is different. As my old prof opined: the French bark, Germans gargle, but in Italian, we sing.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/30/2008 9:07 am ET by VaTom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/29/food.agriculture is a frightening report of our good friend Dow's herbicide aminopyralid.
"The Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) has been inundated with calls from concerned gardeners who have seen potatoes, beans, peas, carrots and salad vegetables wither or become grossly deformed. The society admitted that it had no idea of the extent of the problem, but said it appeared 'significant'. The affected gardens and allotments have been contaminated by manure originating from farms where the hormone-based herbicide aminopyralid has been sprayed on fields."
"It appears that the contamination came from grass treated 12 months ago. Experts say the grass was probably made into silage, then fed to cattle during the winter months. The herbicide remained present in the silage, passed through the animal and into manure that was later sold. Horses fed on hay that had been treated could also be a channel. "
'It seems to be everywhere. From what I know, it is endemic throughout England and Wales. We will be pressing the government to ban this product.' PAHS works. Bury it.
The instructor who taught me to weld was surnamed 'Paglierani'. At the beginning of the class, he wrote his name on the board and said, "That's my name, not the alphabet" and coached us on proper pronunciation of the soft 'g'.
That article is alarming not even so much for what it says, which is huge, but what it neglected to ask: if the vegetables grown in the manure of the animals who ate the pesticide aren't fit to eat, what does that say about the meat and the milk of the animals fed the hay and silage???
Thanks for posting that. I'll email it to my Brit relatives for information/feedback.
Yikes! Thanks for posting that.
Always trying new varieties here. Then they get added to my existing gene pool, and I get all kinds of fun crosses. Now if I could just roll that Catalogna Frastagliata off my tongue the way it should be done....
Not as colorful as raspberries on fresh bread, but here's an array of greens: (clockwise)Catalogna dandelion, yellow mangel beet greens, blonde escarole, Ruby Streaks mustard, bit of parsley, chopped wild arugula, and bit of cilantro. With a backdrop of a Splintie cuttingboard.
The article you posted the link to was alarming. I still don't feel totally comfortable using my own horses' manure...since I feed them non-organic grains. Who knows just what residues are left?
Lovely. And you took the time to get a good photo. I was hungry.
Yup, I viewed my horse manure pile differently after that. Another reason to low temp compost. Before, I'd only been concerned with wormers fed to the horse.
Guess I could buy haying equipment and a horse... Always somebody around who needs hay cut, who wouldn't be paying Dow. Actually know someone who was enthusiastic about a percheron, or some sort of draft horse, in no small part for what it would provide his garden. We talked briefly about horse-logging here.
DIY is appealing, but this is getting a little too deep.
You want to start growing horse grains? Afraid I'm gonna have to stick with "life has risk". Or follow the Euell Gibbons route. Those wild raspberries sure are delectable. PAHS works. Bury it.
Almost wish I was still having my fields hayed...the raspberry patch needs lots of hay mulch each year. I was putting on 10-14 bales each year, and somehow it disappears into the soil, so my mulch is only 3" thick. Keeps them happy. Certain times of the year I can get organically grown oats (from OR) for the horses, otherwise I don't worry too much about a few oats.
From the link, I got the impression the chemical was used in Europe...but is anything known about it's use in the US?
From the link, I got the impression the chemical was used in Europe...but is anything known about it's use in the US?
Probably won't make you feel any better: http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/fg/news/2006/aminopyralid/ which says in part:
Indianapolis, IN (June 22, 2006) - Aminopyralid is a new herbicide in two new Dow AgroSciences products (Milestoneâ„¢ and ForeFrontâ„¢ R&P herbicides) that can be used in rangeland, permanent grass pastures, natural areas (wildlife management areas, natural recreation areas, campgrounds, trailheads and trails), and grazed areas in and around these sites. Aminopyralid is a new generation active ingredient that is effective at very low rates as compared to currently registered herbicides with the same mode of action, including 2,4-D, clopyralid, triclopyr, picloram and dicamba. Aminopyralid is a broadleaf weed herbicide that provides systemic, postemergence control of broadleaf weeds. Aminopyralid can provide residual control, thus reducing the need for re-treatment, depending on the rate applied and the target weeds.
Aminopyralid was accepted for evaluation under the US EPA's Reduced Risk Pesticide program in October 2004 based upon factors related to the management of noxious and invasive weeds in rangeland, pastures, and non-cropland
Yup, the EPA's clearly watching out for us. They tout residual control. It's working in England. My garden too? PAHS works. Bury it.
I contacted the neighbors who were going to provide the horse to eat down my pasture to reneg on our deal. Partly it was the gunshots, partly wondering what else it had been eating. I think i'll go manure-free in the compost heap.
Manure-free compost? How long's that gonna take? Intaglio decided she'd better start adding manure.
But she hasn't seen the answer to her question. Had concerns about her own horse with non-organic grain.
Follow the deer around with a little scoop? I need to cultivate a relationship with large animal person. Herbicide-free hay is available easily here, just need to find someone who's using it. <sigh>PAHS works. Bury it.
I made a 12x12 bed about a foot deep in Missoula of the best soil make only of my sawdust and my neighbor's grass clippings. He had rentals on seven lots, mowed it all with the catcher. They used no pesticides at all. It worked beautifully: i'd clean out the shop and dump the sawdust and he'd shortly come by with a catcher full of grass. Best soil ever...until i poisoned it with manure from the stockyards. With the increase in the spotted knapweed, Tordon is becoming more, not less, ubiquitous.
Have ranch friends who thought Tordon was total overkill for knapweed...there are other herbicides that work for it. But some folks raising hay get carried away....
<"Probably won't make you feel any better: http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/fg/news/2006/aminopyralid/ which says in part: ">
(Sigh)...It's pretty bad. To say the least.
<"Aminopyralid can provide residual control, thus reducing the need for re-treatment,">
Breaking down without leaving residues was precisely what those chemists used to brag about. So now they decide it's better to leave lots of poison around...to continue killing broadleafed plants (and what else???!) for a long time. Still hard/impossible to believe that chemicals which kill one thing have NO effect on other things.
A ray of hope for composting and mulching...friends just told me today that manure should be safe if the horse was fed an alfalfa or alfalfa/grass mix hay...since those chemicals would kill the alfalfa. Probably safer to choose an alfalfa fed horse...no telling if alfalfa/grass mixed fields might have been treated around the grassier parts.
I like the idea of deer manure....but then realized that deer wander on down to other farmers' fields...and those fields might be sprayed. How about your own goat?
Good tip on the alfalfa hay being OK in regard to Tordon. Now i wonder what else it has in it.... :^(
How about your own goat?
Here's a couple pics Notchman sent me of his solution. Not a goat, but the right number of toes...
Sophie, contemplating fertilizing something:View Image
Mission accomplished:View Image
Edited 7/8/2008 11:57 am by splintergroupie
A couple herds of them around here. Might be time to do some door-knocking, but I sure prefer large enough quantities that hydraulics get used to load. No way am I shovelling into my truck with the bed well above the 20" wheels.
Generally get 6-8 tons per load. Sounds like a whole lot of little pellets. PAHS works. Bury it.
So now they decide it's better to leave lots of poison around...to continue killing broadleafed plants (and what else???!) for a long time. Still hard/impossible to believe that chemicals which kill one thing have NO effect on other things.
And widespread: http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/07/07/the-toxic-consequences-of-the-green-revolution.html which says in part:
"JAJJAL VILLAGE, INDIA—Four decades after the so-called Green Revolution enabled this vast nation to feed itself, some farmers are turning their backs on modern agricultural methods—the use of modified seeds, fertilizer, and pesticides—in favor of organic farming.
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Indian farmers harvest wheat in a field near the village of Bathinda.
(Pedro Ugarte/AFP/Getty Images)
This is not a matter of producing gourmet food for environmentally attuned consumers but rather something of a life-and-death choice in villages like this one, where the benefits of the Green Revolution have been coupled with unanticipated harmful consequences from chemical pollution.
As driving their actions, the new organic farmers cite the rising costs of seed, fertilizer, and pesticides, and concerns that decades of chemical use is ruining the soil. But many are also revolting against what they see as the environmental degradation that has come with the new farming techniques, particularly the serious pollution of drinking water that village residents blame for causing cancer and other diseases...."
I like the idea of deer manure....but then realized that deer wander on down to other farmers' fields...and those fields might be sprayed. How about your own goat?
Well, I do have a pretty large patch of honeysuckle that I have do deal with if I want to put raspberries there... Animal husbandry I've been studiously avoiding. As all I'm really interested in is the processed byproduct, you'd think it wouldn't be all that difficult. PAHS works. Bury it.
I was astonished to read in Boss Hog's farming thread/blog that the cost of adding fertilizer, etc, to the field of wheat he just harvested exceeded what he made on it by about 25%...and that with his harvest being 40% greater that he anticipated and being able to exchange his labor for the use of machinery. As i was reading it, i wondered how anyone could make it using modern farming methods.
"I was astonished to read in Boss Hog's farming thread/blog that the cost of adding fertilizer, etc, to the field of wheat he just harvested exceeded what he made on it by about 25%."
I think you read wrong:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=79680.1887
There's one other thing to keep in mind - I added more fertilizer than I needed to in order to continue building fertility levels. When I first had soil tests done, the levels were pretty dismal.
ie: Phosphorous is supposed to be between 40 and 60. This ground tested at 8 before I planted soybeans in the spring of 2007.
When I did soul testing in April of this year, the Phosphorus was up to 18. The fertilizer I added after that should have brought it up significantly again. But it will take a couple of years to get it up to where it should be.
"...I wondered how anyone could make it using modern farming methods. "
I wonder how a farmer could make it who did NOT using modern methods. Organic farming is so labor intensive it's basically impossible on a large scale.
Margins are pretty thin on farming ground. If I didn't have the use of the borrowed equipment, that field is so ridiculously small that it wouldn't be worth messing with.
Get a canoe later and I'll paddle you.
$540 for fertilizer and $420 net. You paid 29% more for fertilizer than you netted, correct? ((540-420)/420 = > 0.2857)
I'm not slamming you, Ron, if that's how you took it. I wonder how labor intensive organic farming would be comparatively, though? I'm not in a good position to do a time study, but that $540 you put into fertilizer could be translated into the labor equivalent, using your $420 net profit as a measure, as 125% more labor than you already put out, and that's with your crop being 2/3r-again as productive as you expected. I realize that we haven't factored your profits from straw into the deal, however.
For instance, you're saying the soybeans brought up the phosphorus level ten points, with chemicals bringing it up another how many points? Have you penciled out how much money and time into chemicals compared to seeding the beans and plowing them back in? (I'm assuming that's what's done. Feel free to correct me. Could be i missed where you harvested the beans and made some money off that...?) But that doesn't fully take into account the benefits of tilling a crop under compared to supplying one nutrient, either, so that's still not a level-playing-field comparison.
Like i said, i'm not knocking you, i just don't see it's sustainable if you depended on it for your livelihood. I was truly shocked to see how much you spent on fertilizers, though i understand you're playing catch-up for now. It'll be interesting to see how the returns shape up over the next couple years, for sure.
You sure made me feel lucky buying my lifetime supply of sulfur for $9! <G>
"$540 for fertilizer and $420 net. You paid 29% more for fertilizer than you netted, correct?"
Nope - I'm not slamming YOU either. You just didn't read that post very carefully.
I took in $1,440 gross. I get 2/3 of that, which is $960. After deducting the $540 for fertilizer, I netted $420.
So you were trying to deduct the fertilizer a 2nd time.
"I wonder how labor intensive organic farming would be comparatively, though?"
Well, you would have to have a source for vast amounts of fertilizer for startes. Weed control would be VERY labor intensive. And there's no labor pool to draw from. (No migrant workers around here)
There are lots of problems that would make organic farming impractical.
"For instance, you're saying the soybeans brought up the phosphorus level ten points"
Nope - Soybeans USE phosphorous. I put enough on the field to cover the soybeans PLUS bring the fertility level up.
"Have you penciled out how much money and time into chemicals compared to seeding the beans and plowing them back in?"
To the best of my knowledge, soyeans don't add anything back into the soil at all. I harvested the beans last fall and sold them.
I grossed about $1,000 on beans, and got to keep 2/3 of it. I spent about $350 on fertilizer and herbicides:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=79680.1288
Putting in the alfalfa will be expensive. But once it's established I shouldn't have to add too much fertilizer. I only have to plant it once, and it last for about 5 years. So over the next few years it should be fairly profitable.
(I hope)
I don't believe i deducted the fertilizer twice. I call the "net" the part you get to put in your pocket after all expenses are paid...the $420, not the $960. Perhaps this is just a matter of how we define "net profit". Perhaps you mean it's your share before the fertilizer bill is paid, whereas it makes more sense to me to deduct the cost of the fertilizer before calling it 'net profit'.To put it more clearly, of the $960 you got for your share of the wheat, $540 (56%) went to fertilizer costs and $420 (44%) was net profit. Isn't that correct? 12% more of the total went to fertilizer than profit; IOW, about 128% of the profit was spent on fertilizer.<<you would have to have a source for vast amounts of fertilizer>>Those would be the vast amounts of 'fertilizer' piled in feedlots and making its way down to the Gulf. :^(<<Soybeans USE phosphorous. I put enough on the field to cover the soybeans PLUS bring the fertility level up.>>
<<To the best of my knowledge, soyeans don't add anything back into the soil at all.>>Sorry, i missed that part of your blog last fall. So...why soybeans, then, instead of any other crop? What happens to the waste, anyway? Is it plowed in or burned or...? My impression was that all legumes fix nitrogen. Did you test before and after and find any difference?Of the soybeans, you received $666, for a "net" of $316. Interestingly, that $316 divided by 666 equals 47%, or approximately the same ratio of after-fert profit as the wheat gives you, though the wheat gives you an larger absolute number. I was actually wondering how the field got so depleted anyway. I suppose it's in the blog, eh? <G> I expect the alfalfa should give the soil some N back, being a legume, but whadda i no? These two threads are almost completely divorced from one another for tactic, despite having the same strategy!! LOL....
I see what you're getting at about the profit vs. fertilizer cost - The fertilizer was more than the net profit was. I thought you were saying I was actually losing money on the field.
But as I said - Part of the fertilizer cost is a long term investment - It wasn't all needed this year.
"...vast amounts of 'fertilizer' piled in feedlots and making its way down to the Gulf."
You really hit a hot button with me there.
It seems to be widely accepted that farmers are virtually 100% responsible for fertilizer runoff, and things like the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. But to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever put any effort into finding out just exactly where the runoff comes from.
You saw how expensive it was for me to over fertilize that field. (ie: put more fertilizer on than was needed for the current crop) Can you imagine how expensive it would be for someone who farmed thousands of acres? They simply can't afford to grossly over fertilize fields, as some would have you believe that they do as a matter of practice.
I think a lot of fertilizer runoff comes from residential lawns. If I wanted to go out and put 3 times the fertilizer on my lawn than it actually needs, it's only gonna cost me $50 or so.
Manure at feed lots is regulated, although I admit that I don't know just exactly how much. You can't just let runoff go anywhere you want and not have someone breathing down your neck.
But if a few million people dump ridiculous amounts of fertilizer on their lawns, no one notices. It's just a tiny little area, and it doesn't make a difference in the big picture.
O.K. - end of rant
(-:
"So...why soybeans, then, instead of any other crop? What happens to the waste, anyway? Is it plowed in or burned or...?"
I put down lime, and wanted to get it plowed in. the soybeans leave a moderate amount of residue, so it's easy to follow them with wheat. The wheat was obviously harvested in the middle of the summer, which will allow the alfalfa to be planted in September.
It will also allow me one more opportunity to have some more lime spread and worked in. the PH is still a bit low.
The "waste", or bean stems were left in the field and the wheat was planted with a no till drill. That was done to both reduce costs and prevent soil erosion.
"I was actually wondering how the field got so depleted anyway. I suppose it's in the blog, eh?"
I think I mentioned it once, but it's been a while.
The field was pasture for many decades. The guy who owned the ground was notoriously cheap, so he probably never added any fertilizer to the place. So over the years as the cows ate it down the fertility levels went to hell.
"I expect the alfalfa should give the soil some N back, being a legume, but whadda I no?"
You're right - It does. That's why farmers sometimes put corn in after a stand of alfalfa is depleted.
In this case, the field will likely stay in alfalfa indefinitely. The owners want to minimize erosion, and they feel it's the best crop for it.
This spring I added nitrogen for the wheat - It needs nitrogen, since it's a grass. But I would be wasting my time adding nitrogen to alfalfa ground.
There is no accounting for taste, poor or otherwise.
Clarification: When i mentioned the "vast amounts of 'fertilizer'" waiting to be washed into the Gulf, i was talking about manure from feedlots, though you seem to think i was referencing farmers' chemical fertilizer run-off. No matter, it's all pollution of various kinds, i guess.
It's OK to have a rant about lawn fertilizers, too. There's plenty of blame to go around, but the enormous effects of pollution traceable to factory farming is well documented. I won't go into detail it this post, but here's the first link that was returned when i googled <<feedlot water pollution>>.The part about the livestock industry using 70% of the antibiotics in the nation, which then gets flushed into the water supply along with the #### and manure, is another biological time-bomb whose effects we're just starting to see with antibiotic-resistant TB, etc.
Here's a chart showing the sources, however, so you can see agricultural run-off is by far the largest source of NPS (non point specific) pollution to water supplies:
View Image
It's a distribution problem, mostly: corn gets shipped to Iowa, fed to hogs who krap in a pile, then the nutrients pile up locally instead of being recycled to where they came from. One location suffers from a nutrient-surfeit while the other suffers a lack. The damned human gets involved and screws up the Great Circle of Life. <let us chant...>
In my day as a mini-cowpuncher, all the ranchers had manure spreaders, but i never heard anything about chemical enhancement of the fields. I suppose they worked within the natural carrying capacity of the land, though, instead of trying for what one might call artificially higher yields, except what they could get by irrigation. They were just farming/ranching like the farmers in India in Tom's link who are opting for temporarily smaller yields until they build the soil back up using organic methods, now that the price of chemical agriculture has exacted a too-high money and human health cost.
Back to lawns...
This lawncare pollution prevention fact sheet says lawns, if they were a crop, would be the fifth largest in the US on the basis of area. As you would guess, very few lawnowners even test their lawns to see if they're deficient before dumping on fertilizers. It says that "Source area monitoring in Marquette, Michigan found that nitrogen and phosphorus concentrations in residential lawn runoff were 5 to 10 times higher than any other source area (CWP, 1999b). This confirms earlier Wisconsin research findings that residential lawns yielded the highest phosphorus concentrations of twelve urban pollutant sources examined (Bannerman et al, 1993)." That seems horrible until you factor in that 80% of that pollution, according to the Colorado State U Extension, comes from grass clippings and leaves that ends up in storm drains, not fertilizer per se.
Regarding the fertilizer runoff - I meant to sort of lump manure and commercial fertilizers together, since they're used for more or less the same thing.That chart is the first one I've ever seen that attempts to assign percentages of runoff to specific sources. Assuming that chart is accurate, lawns play a smaller role than I would have guessed.I don't think you're right about manure piling up due to not having a place to put it. It generally piles up because of timing - ie: You can't spread manure on a field while a crop is growing. So it's stockpiled during the summer. It's also stockpiled during the winter when it's too wet to get into the fields to spread it. (Or too frozen, if they're injecting it)Around here some livestock farmers plant wheat just so they'll have a place to go with manure during the summer.It would be interesting to know the ins and outs of large scale manure handling requirements. But I don't have time to search on it right now...
To be upset over what you don't have is to waste what you do have.
I meant manure piling up at the feedlots where the cows are collected and finished, not the farms.
Mega manure, with spectators
Feedlot or farm - Same thing.They keep the manure only until they have somewhere to go with it. They don't have unlimited storage.
I could never lead a double life. I don't have that much closet space.
I'd beg to differ with you that a feedlot and farm are the same thing. Scale matters bec, to a certain extent, "The solution to pollution is dilution."
I just meant that it didn't matter if the manure was stored at either a farm or a feedlot. It's still manure, and it's stored..BTW - I gotta quit contributing to this thread. It's overtaking my farming blog, and we just can't have that.Guess I have a case of "thread envy".(-:
Let's skip the insults and get right down to your a$$ kicking
Wait'll i start gnashing my teeth over having to put another cover on my HH - i could really drive the count up! I was out there fixing it today...realized the problem is pretty wide-spread on the one side. Seriously not UV-resistant as it is supposed to be.
DAMN...i've gotten two years out of this same exact brand of plastic before, and this roll only gave me two months. Serious bummer....i think i been had...
Gonna plonk down the money for that 20-year stuff JohnT8 found online, if i can find that post in this mess...
"JAJJAL VILLAGE, INDIA—Four decades after the so-called Green Revolution enabled this vast nation to feed itself, some farmers are turning their backs on modern agricultural methods—the use of modified seeds, fertilizer, and pesticides—in favor of organic farming."
I wasn't sure those farmers could even buy nongenetically modified seed. What I had read a few years ago indicated the big companies controlled their farming methods, had them cornered. Sure hope it's not true. There was a famous court case of GMO pollen drifting to another farmer's field, crossing....then he was taken to court by the GMO seed company...and I believe he lost the case. It's buried in one of my Seed Saver's books...
My manure heap keeps growing..but will probably just spread that on fields. I'm concerned now about how the grain I feed them was raised...do they use herbicides when growing grain, or sugar beets.? The horses don't need grain this time of year...I might stop graining them for a month, and collect manure just for compost pile use.
A goat would be handy to eat stuff, but I think about the upkeep of constantly moving him around, and then housing him at night so coyotes don't get him.....
Goats do much better in pairs, they need company to stay sane.
I started with 3,nanny and two kids, and soon had 6, added another nanny and 2 kids. Then when we let them mix we got up 13, and I got rid of the original billy and banded the new born billies.
A LOT of work, and like you, I was staying organic, and when the 2002(?) laws came into effect I had to have documnetation of all my feed sources, cuz I sold my hot pepps in an organic store..and the goat poo was very big in my "plan". Too much trouble and cost to stay small and legal too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
There was a famous court case of GMO pollen drifting to another farmer's field, crossing....then he was taken to court by the GMO seed company...and I believe he lost the case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto
"In 1998 Monsanto's patented seeds infected and pollenated farmland, established for forty years, owned by Percy Schmeiser. Monsanto Canada sued the seventy year old farmer for 'stealing' their patented seeds. This high profile case, Monsanto Canada Inc. v. Schmeiser, went to the Supreme Court level. Monsanto sued an independent farmer, Percy Schmeiser, for patent infringement for growing genetically modified Roundup resistant canola. The 1998 case was portrayed in the media as a classic David and Goliath confrontation. This cross pollination destroyed Schmeiser's forty years worth of carefully grown fields. In March of 2001, Supreme Court Judge W. Andrew MacKay ruled that Schmeiser had violated Monsanto's genetically engineered patent. "This is very good news for us, Mr. Schmeiser had infringed on our patent." said Monsanto's Trish Jordan. The court rejected Monsanto's claim for damages and did not impose punitive damages on Schmeiser, which would not have been expected in a case involving a new question of law. The case did cause Monsanto's enforcement tactics to be highlighted in the media over the years it took to play out. [40] In 2008, agreed to pay the Schmeiser $660 to settle the original small-claims court case for the cost of removing the patented Roundup Ready canola from their field in 2005."
A goat would be handy to eat stuff, but I think about the upkeep of constantly moving him around, and then housing him at night so coyotes don't get him.....
Goats are also favored prey for neighborhood dogs who form a pack. I really don't want to do guard duty, not that I'd hesitate to shoot either.PAHS works. Bury it.
Monsanto versus Percy Schmeiser: Interesting reading. This caught my eye:
"The appellate court also discussed a possible intermediate scenario, in which a farmer is aware of contamination of his crop by genetically modified seed, but tolerates its presence and takes no action to increase its abundance in his crop. The court held that whether such a case would constitute patent infringement remains an open question..."
Seems a hardship for farmers to have to rip out crops that have been contaminated.
"The ruling did increase the protection available to biotechnology companies in Canada, a situation which had been left open with the Harvard mouse decision, where it was determined that a "higher lifeform", such as an animal, or by extension a plant, cannot be patented. This put Canada at odds with the other G8 countries where the patent had been granted."
I believe I have also read of these large biotech companies going into South American countries, finding native (medicinal) herbs and trees, and patenting the plants/parts of the plants, thus taking them from the native peoples' traditional use.
Strange world.....
I thought of you and Hasbeen today with your row covers. After the winds with the last storm system went through, there were a LOT of those poly-tarp sheds like we were talking about earlier in the thread, with their legs all bent every which way.
One resourceful person had taken the legs off and placed the gabled roof structure over the garden, with the covering rolled up to the ridge during the day. Pretty stout framework...no blowing that away again!
Edited 6/17/2008 1:40 am by splintergroupie
I have a thought about your newspaper availability.How about (on a calm day!) throwing mass newspaper around on your mowable areas, then going over them with the mower a few times until relatively chopped up, then add bagging device and what you catch will already be a mix of green and brown, ready to compost like mad. Maybe. Whaddya think?I can't remember you've talked about this, but IIRC you, like me, need to raise the acidity of your soil. How about peat moss? You're closer to Canada, maybe it's cheaper where you live? Or maybe still to expensive.I haven't read every bit of this thread, so maybe it's been mentioned, but are you familiar with the book One Straw Revolution? We still haven't had rain, but there are a few clouds in the sky today and the wind did let up a few days ago. Many of my peppers look pretty beat, but seem to be hanging in there. One of my potato patches is about ready to hill up. I've been slowly kicking in more straw and dirt, but soon I'll bury about a third of the plants. Can't see that well in this picture, but I have piles of dirt between the trenches that the potatoes are growing in.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I like the newpaper/grass mulching idea. I went out there to try it after reading your message earlier, but just as soon as i had the mower out and a stack of papers at the ready, the wind came up. If this works, it'll rank right up there with using the pressure washer to clean root vegetables en masse!I did about an hour of reading about One Straw Revolution and the author on this site: http://fukuokafarmingol.info/ I'm a little perplexed when they say it takes one-tenth the work of normal gardening when i read his recommendation to spread 900# of chicken manure per quarter acre. Thinking about moving 900# of chicken manure, let alone tending enough chix to make that much manure, makes me wonder what he considers "fun"!The home page on that website says he no longer farms, is thought to be living in Tokyo, and the family no longer uses his methods on the farm. Intriguing, to say the least! What experience do you have with Fukuoka's methods?Peat moss isn't too expensive, about $11 a bale, last i looked, but i've heard environmental concerns about harvesting peat, though i haven't researched it at all. The sulfur was a lot less expensive and is considered suitable for organic farming, according to what i read. It takes a couple months to change the pH, so it's not like the quick boost that ammonium sulfate (?) gives. I really think $37 for a whole pickup load of mushroom compost is the bee's knees of soil amendments! I found my scarlet runner beans outside that i was so looking forward to have rotted along with my strawberry transplants with our last round of snow and cold. I have more strawbs to transplant, though i may not have a crop this year, but i'm plenty bummed over the bean issue. Scarlet runners are bountiful AND beautiful!Hopefully i can experiment with the papers and grass tomorrow...i'll report back!
I read about "One Straw" many years back and was intrigued. I just ordered a copy of the original hardback. My recollection is that he used a sort of low impact/minimum tillage method to get the process started to improve soil. I noticed that Amazon brought it up with Permaculture as an associated topic.Glad to hear that the idea of using a mower to chop paper was good enough to try out. I'm thinking about it myself, but I don't have the acres of meadow to chop into it.I've used aluminum sulfate on trees, but something about the name put me off from dumping it on the garden.I don't understand soil well enough. Our soil theoretically has lots of sulfur, but is alkaline, too.I planted scarlet runners last summer and they just didn't run. This year I planted kentucky pole beans and they seem to be doing ok, though not great.Pumpkins are starting to really take off here.Do you do any suckering or top pruning on your tomatoes? How do you keep them up? I have some cages, but have mostly switched this year to poles and they seem better to me, so far.I put the very last of my tomato, broccoli, and pepper starts out yesterday in spots where other things had failed, mostly in an area where I planted brussels sprouts and only a low percentage came up. I planted some broc near the ant hill and the little boogers attacked me. I just ran... this time.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Aluminum sulfate? At least your plants didn't have B.O.! ;^)
Ammonium sulfate supposedly gives the soil a jolt of acidifiying effect, like wood ashes gives a jolt of alkalinizing effect. The sulfur, by contrast, is supposed to gradually comes out of the granules - it looks a bit like greenish tapioca in the bag - then you check pH at various stages to correct if needed.
I don't know much about soil yet, either, so i don't understand how you can have both sulfurous soil and it be alkaline, too. I'm still waiting a couple more weeks before i test the pH of the "potato patch" where i tried it. When i do, i'll report how well it worked. My native soil there was very alkaline. I put in about a half-yard of the pH-neutral mushroom compost in 200 s.f., so that lowered it a bit, too. I never could get much agreement on how much to use from my research online, so i winged it on quantity, used 8#....we'll see what happens.
I've been thinking that perhaps a better diagnostic process might just be to note what grows very well, what fails, and then research the differences in the crops' nutritional needs to determine the characteristics of the soil and what it might be lacking...an inferred profile of the soil that might be more telling than pH or NPK tests could tell.
Cole crops, beets, chard, tomatillos, eggplant, and squashes/cukes grow outstandingly well here. Tomatoes, beans, carrots, peas are generally good. (Beans are moving into "outstanding" territory in the HH.) Potatoes, okra, strawbs, peppers, asparagus have been disappointing every year so far so perhaps there's a commonality in the needs of those plants that is missing in my soil....or not, and back to the drawing board. <g>
I broke down and while getting some glue and screws at Lowes perused the vegetable plants they had left. Snagged me some Hot bananna peps, jalapenos, and Cayannes. Looks like a 4 some of Hungarian wax pepps I started might pull through..
So it won't be a bust, but not my usual pepper crop. Corn is looking good, 'maters are fighting the Johnson Grass ( horrid stuff, about like Kudzu or multi-flora rose to me).
The other garden of taters, mustard, turnips, garlic , jerulsalem artichokes is BOOMING. As are the berries and sweet cheeries.
Still have a lot of raised bed and no clue what to plant this late..hmm.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Good score on getting the replacement plants. The veggies packs for sale here anymore are looking pretty sad except for one greenhouse i've been to that seems like they had a contingency plan for our last snowfall. Smart cookies!
Hmm....i always forget about turnips. I can't remember what they taste like, to tell the truth, but it might be time to stick something like that in the potato patch if the potates don't start shaking a leg. Parsnips...too short a season normally, but i'll make room in the HH next year. Jer.artichokes...i might give them another chance, but it seemed a lot of work for little produce, like fava beans.
I think i see another HH in the future, truth to tell. I have the old hoops from the small, previous HH plus some i got that Jesse was tossing out when i got carpet scraps from him for mulch mats around the trees. The lumber for the raised beds was the expensive part of this deal, but if i just spend that on mushroom compost and make instant dirt in a new area...could be a way to get a month's head-start on growing corn, etc, and then just take the hoops off when it gets ~3' tall. I could move the bulky squashes out of the raised-bed HH to grow under the corn, then grow more demanding things like parsnips in the raised beds.
I put the tomatoes on 3' centers and mulched with newspaper, but i blew the first month with all the space between them...i could have planted greens in-between. I'm not that efficient yet with it....learning.
One of my potato patches is about ready to hill up. I've been slowly kicking in more straw and dirt, but soon I'll bury about a third of the plants. Can't see that well in this picture, but I have piles of dirt between the trenches that the potatoes are growing in.
Please translate for a novice. What is "hill up"? My first effort here, looks similar, without the dirt/straw between your rows. Am I supposed to be doing something, other than watch them grow?
BTW, that's arugula sprouted under the potatoes. Believe I mentioned that I like low-temp composting that doesn't kill seeds. Pull the sprouts you don't want (grasses), leave the good stuff. Any idea if potatoes companion with arugula and cilantro? Nobody's complaining so far.
Including my gardening buddy who likes that clover, shaded by the peas.PAHS works. Bury it.
Lo Lo Lo Lola! ( I know you're old enough to remember the Kinks!) Cat lovers here.My potato method is to dig a footing like trench (I think a mini-excavator would be a handy garden tool!) about 8-12" deep. I break up the bottom of the trench, plant the potatoes, and bury about 4-5" deep with soil and some straw. When the plants get to around 16-18" tall I add some well finished compost, straw, and dirt to bury about 1/3 of the plant. If you're ambitious and have the dirt handy you can do it again when the plants get back to the same height above the now-higher dirt level.The parts of the plants that have been buried will turn to more roots and put out more potatoes.Same method can be used with a potato box where you can add to the sides and continue to fill with loose soil, etc.I tried the box thing last year, but with our incredibly low humidity it dried out to fast and the top layers didn't produce any more potato. Might work fine in your climate, though.I don't know much about companion planting, although DW tries it, especially with growing garlic in her roses. I also recently read that there is no published evidence that any companion planting works, so "who knows"?Your garden pics remind me out gardens on Vashon Island near Seattle. Shade and moisture... what a concept! We haven't had enough rain to get the ground wet in weeks and weeks, but there's epic floods 800 miles east. You probably know the saying that in Colorado water flows uphill toward money. I guess we don't have enough money in Colorado yet to get a pipeline from the Missouri River. < G >
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
A friend of mine had a dairy for years. His barn and milking parlor was on a gentle hillside and manure was dozed out of a doorway on the downhill side.The manure pile at any one time was about 8 feet deep and that's where he planted his potatoes; put the sets at the bottom of the pile and, by end of summer, he had about 6 vertical feet of potatoes!I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't actually helped him dig them out one year.
Wow! That a lot of potatoes.It's hard to come up with anything here that looks like the sort of loam most people think of as garden soil.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
And well beyond the Kinks... Gwen Verdon (Lola) in Damn Yankees: "whatever Lola wants, Lola gets ..."
Thanks for the explanation. On the advice of a "master gardner" here I spread soil cloth, arranged potato pieces, and covered with compost. Ergo, the undergrowth veggies. Not trying for any particular companion effect, just don't want to upset anybody.
Although... the U of N. Mexico reported that arugula was a "green manure". Haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, or even really know what they were talking about. Or if potatoes would appreciate it.
I'm gonna run out of compost trying to bury those plants that deep, guess I'll use dirt. All I'd understood was the importance of not letting sun shine on the spuds. Which I presume happen sometime after flowering. All new to me.
Oh, reason for the soil cloth was easy harvesting, grab it and shake. No digging, no scarred potatoes. Maybe the guy who told me about it dug trenches. I didn't. But as you say, not a major effort to grow things here. Very unlike when I had tomatoes in toilets on my Denver roof (commercial building, no yard). Never did get much out of them.
Here, just remove what you don't want. Then get out of the way. Peas are 7' tall up there, as is 1 tomato. The rest are catching up. I've watered 3-4 times this year. Cage up 5', then they're on their own.
Lots of shade here, a bit of a problem. I've got a chainsaw, but then I'd have to do something in the space, or get a jungle. Trees take care of themselves. Like most of the stuff I "grow".PAHS works. Bury it.
Seems that everyone has a variation on potato growing. All probably work well depending on the goal. I have a little booklet from a seed outfit on potato growing and they show 3 or 4 different ways.I like your minimum tillage approach.A green manure is just a crop that you plant to till under for soil improvement. Alfalfa, rye, barley, and all sorts of other stuff will work. A commonly recommended thing is to plant the green manure seed as soon as you harvest and then till in whatever you have before spring planting.Tomatoes in toilets?In the woods where you live the "soil" and the "compost" might not be all that different! I know now that I grew up with a warped sense of what dirt is because I grew up in Iowa.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I like your minimum tillage approach.
Got a Mantis, seemed ideal. Haven't run any gas through it for several years now. But haven't passed it on to a new home, yet.
Tomatoes in toilets?
If all you have is a sunny roof, you've gotta plant 'em in something. I happened onto a trove of toilets. Made sense to me. Photos got spread by some visiting Swiss who detested tomatoes. Found the whole thing hilarious. Pretty good tomatoes, the few we got.
Till under? The arugula under the potatoes won't have that happen. Buried maybe, when I "hill". Topsoil here is an inch and a half deep, at best. Under that's decomposed rock. Trees and berries love it. Everything else does better with help.
A lot different from Iowa I guess.
Used to till in manure. Then found compost sprinkled on top worked far better. Now the manure gets composted with weeds. Working great. Weeds are my friends, I just don't let them go to seed. I've all but eradicated ragweed here. Which I'm told is impossible. PAHS works. Bury it.
Same method can be used with a potato box where you can add to the sides and continue to fill with loose soil
Friends of mine use tires to 'hill' their potatoes, with good results. The only time i tried it, i took the tires off in the fall to find i had a 5'-tall vine and not a single potato except at the very bottom.
I need to get on better terms with the potato deva.
As my plants grow, I'm finding the best is just the floating row cover directly on the plants, with rocks along the corners/edges. Have to adjust it as plants grow...at first the tomatoes pushed ahead of lettuce, and bent their tops trying to push it up (since the gardener forgot to pay attention). Then the lettuce forged ahead of tomatoes, and supported it for them. My squash is outgrowing its hugel tunnel hoops. Peas are learning to hold onto the fence...soon there will be flowers. Cucumbers are jumping.
Your strawberries.....I wonder if more sand in the soil would help there. I'm assuming you planted them with their crowns above the dirt level? They are fussy about that.
They were producing new leaves just fine until this last snow/rain/cold spell. Everything was just soaked and miserable. Today i dug where the scarlet runner beans were planted and found them...brown, mushy, rotted just as they had sent out a teeny little root.
So...save me some seeds this year, would you? They aren't real easy to find and i would guess no longer available in Missoula even. Only one place might have them...i'll have to call there.
On a happier note...voilà ! (It doesn't look like it should fit, does it!?!?)
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The pond was clear of sand after filling which bodes well for my irrigation scheme. Unfortunately, The Teenager knocked a fair amount of dirt in today when i asked him to rake the ground level around it. :^(
Edited 6/18/2008 2:33 am by splintergroupie
Little pond's nice. Filling with well water... OK. This is for irrigation? Looks more like pooch fun. They won't mind a dirt bottom. Will really appreciate their mom's effort.
Noticed the little trees you've got around. Spent awhile Sat. and yesterday picking cherries here. Well, not here, but where the tree is. I'm told the birds leave them alone until exactly ripe. Which was yesterday, judging from the bird presence. Who definitely didn't appreciate mine.
Another 25 lbs to stone this morning. Lovely little things, that the tree owner thinks aren't quite sweet enough to eat straight. Strikes us as wonderful. We've been freezing on trays so they don't stick together, then bagging. Sure were nice last night:PAHS works. Bury it.
I have a Montmorency cherry that is a so-called pie cherry, the only tree that's starting to produce much, but the Clapps pear is looking like a contender this year. I think all fruit is for nibbles, just in different flavors. That looks the color of the Montmorency, but kinda hard to tell with the holes shot through 'em. I wonder why you have the one sinker and did the one sink and the others not? I also freeze them as you do for little snacks. Frozen grapes are another heavenly dessert. We planted about a hundred trees between 2003-5, about 12-15 of them fruit trees with the remainder in shade and around the perimeter for privacy and a bit of windbreak. Between the damage done by young dogs i've fostered and late freezes and aphids, probably a third have been replaced with sturdier models. The Stella cherry and another pear of some sort are struggling this year --- hard to make a living in this sandy desert of mine. Yesterday i put a fence across the yard so dogs can live on one side and Do No Harm, while i can plant what i will on the other side with an expectation of survival. My youngest dog is getting more respectful of my stuff, but sometimes visitor and foster dogs aren't so they'll have a play pen of their own, with 'their' trees inside cages for protection against chewers. Little trees...yeah, but they started from scratch and i didn't have enough $$$ to buy any but the smallest ones. Some - Russian olives and maples - i raised from seed. The first pic was taken in 2003, the second a week ago, the same ground from different perspectives. The tank holds about 960 gallons. I figure i will use about 1200 gals. a day....remains to be seen. The tank will fill from the well as i pump out for irrigation, almost at the same rate, so i think i can get the full round of watering done every day if necessary, but i probably won't need to.
Well, it sure ain't Virginia... That you knew. LOL
No idea what cherries these are, the guy who planted the tree's fuzzy. Not like my chin, his memory. Pretty sure my sinker had to do with time in the freezer. They weren't completely frozen. Sure does something nice to soave.
We've got trees everywhere. Then my mother showed up 15 yrs ago with a dozen Colorado Blue Spruce and a pair of maples. "You don't have any of these." The maples and a pair of spruce survive today. Only the maples look happy, one only after I dumped a 7 ton load of manure under it. 15 yo spruce that's only 40" tall? That's tight grain... Maybe in a hundred years it'll turn into something.
Put up some of those cherries with a little sugar and less-than-brilliant "peach schnapps". Any predictions? We're inconsistent with brandies. Probably need practice. Gin was a failure.
Lapfull of furious licking here. Fortunately there's a cat between that and anything sensitive.
PAHS works. Bury it.
You could name your spruce "Buckaroo", for the Buckaroo Bonsai character. (Sigh....there usta be an independent movie theater in Missoula.)No advice on the alcohol. I'm happy with a microbrew or two on a hot day, but i'm not much of a drinker. I did a wassail bowl with rum for the Christmas party the people on my lane had most recently....big hit, but i had to explain (and sing) about wassail about 40 times. If it doesn't come in a can, they haven't heard of it. I haven't really moved off ground zero all day since i woke up from my fencing endeavors yesterday with every part protesting. I'm now acquainted with a new tool, the post pounder. I've been working hard for days...time to heal up. I just finished a vat of popcorn, headed to a microbrew while throwing a movie in the player. Probably fall asleep somewhere between the opening credits and here we come a wassailing among the leaves so green.
Now it's tomorrow... hope you're recovered.
No doubt you're entertaining at a Christmas party... LOL
Discovered some vodka-soaked cherries from 1999 today. Pretty tasty. At least the vodka is, haven't gotten down to the cherries yet. Never found much point to vodka before this.
Fruit, interesting stuff.PAHS works. Bury it.
Nice!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
My scarlet runners aren't exactly jumping yet...but that beats my favorite Cannellinis which didn't even come up (seed was too old, replanted and am waiting....). The other pole beans are doing fine....
So you'll have to plant a lilypad in that dirt in the bottom of your pool!
Jerusalem artichokes keep trying to come up everywhere.....and I can't let them. Shade things too much, they have to stay where it's approved. But they do produce lots of tubers......in the right kinds of soil (they like noncompacted and fluffy best). They wouldn't need a greenhouse. Kinda nice compromise for a sunflower, and they make edibles, too! Flowers are always last on my list to plant, so often never get a place.
<"Kubota digging? Real hard on a farm tractor front loader, particularly if it doesn't have teeth">
Hmm, I've been using my John Deere front end loader to dig wild roses (rosa rugosa) out of the pastures, only in Spring when the soil is soft. Am a little confused about the front axle pivot....and Bertha doesn't have one? She looks like a little skidder. Even with wet soil, I have to get the weight of the tractor to help push into the soil/grass. And can tell when I'm asking too much, if I smell the hydraulic fluid a little. Maybe I need to have a little backhoe attachment instead. Good to know, thanks.
PS the closest I found to the Italian (Truilli?) was Islamic architecture, but without the tapered curved top piece.
No idea how those Italians (very small, out-of-the-way area) got started. Not anywhere you'd happen onto, without reading about it first.
I bought a hoe for my little Mitsubishi, after I ripped the front end off the second time. I'm a slow learner. Including figuring out that buying a small hoe doesn't generally make much sense. You can buy a whole full-size backhoe for about the same money. Got $5k? There's a 580 Case with your name on it, that a guy's hiring me to sell.
Am a little confused about the front axle pivot....and Bertha doesn't have one?
Exactly.
Rear wheel steer (not skid steer, which I have no use) puts the pivot at her posterior, away from bucket stresses. Industrial loaders, particularly before they started making them articulated, were pretty much all built that way. Tractors designed for serious loader work, unlike farm tractors with a loader stuck on.
They're also immensely cheaper to buy than farm tractors. I'm in a very small fan population. Bertha's been exactly what I'd hoped. She's got a wonderful ... can I get "posterior" past censure?... on her. But not for the faint of heart:
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/13/2008 9:30 am ET by VaTom
Now that we're between plantings and harvest, one issue worthy of discussion (and photos) is "other" garden structures, like tool sheds, potting sheds, places to hang out and rest the back and soak in the garden.I was thinking along these lines yesterday as I recalled a friend who is a long-time avid gardener and landscaper (for herself....not professionally though she's competent enough) who, in addition to a small garden shed, built herself what she calls her "Loafing Shed;" a shaded place where she can hang out in the shade, take a nap or read a book, etc.Her loafing shed is small, the interior maybe 8' X 10' but with an overhanging gabled porch another 8' or so. Inside is a cot for naps, and the porch sports a hammock oriented so she can lay back and contemplate her work and the nearby river.The porch is shrouded in twigs and branches with honeysuckle and primroses crawling all over them. (Smells great).Her Husband calls it her "Duck Blind" (which is somewhat descriptive :-)), but it is a pleasant place to periodically vegetate.
Ya mean like this?
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It's actually quite a bit more shadded now - the banksia rose has about doubled in size...
Edited 6/13/2008 8:00 pm by wrudiger
Quite similar.She's got a hammock instead of a bench and a gable roof of old rusty corregated barn roofing, but the function is probably similar.Yours is very appealing, BTW.
I missed this earlier. That is soooo wonderful. Please post more pictures of your work; i love it!
<"Now that we're between plantings and harvest, one issue worthy of discussion (and photos) is "other" garden structures, like tool sheds, potting sheds, places to hang out and rest the back and soak in the garden.">
How about outdoor kitchens or dining areas? Everytime I have to leave the garden to haul veggies into the house for dinner, I think how little sense that makes. Why not prepare the food right out in the garden, and eat it there? Such a nice place, with birds singing, sweet scents on the air. Often I grab a bowl, with some salad dressing, and eat in the garden, sitting on the grass.
Since I can remember, one of my favorite benefits of a garden is the "grazing."Bell peppers, beans carrots, tomatoes....all are fair game. Mom used to say my brothers and I were worse than a pack of rabbits.I never thought about cooking there, though....interesting idea....
Well, my Vietnamese friends hit the garden with a vengeance this weekend: I hauled in 4 heaped pickup loads of 3 year-old horse manure and we spread it and got it worked in.They brought more tomatoes, about 40 pepper plants of various varieties, planted several rows of veggies and, when I left in the early afternoon to have a 'Father's Day' lunch with my FIL, they planted three Papaya plants in the hoophouse....I'm a PNW Coast Papaya-skeptic, but who knows? They claim they have raised them successfully indoors....
Another milestone! (800 posts)
Congrats on having good gardening buddies! I had the Teenager, who last helped with the raised beds for the hoophouse, help me today with the pond and with some other construction stuff, deck and stairs. He's not a ball of fire, but the synergy is good and he's a very pleasant kid who's open to doing whatever is on tap. I wish he didn't have to do it all three times before he gets it right. Today he asked me to comeover and check his progress again...so i told him a line i heard a woodshop teacher use when a student asked if a piece were sanded well enough: "If you have to ask, it's not."
Papaya, eh? Now that i know where you live....yum.... ;^)
I noticed that the strawberries that were starting to sprout new leaves after being transplanted a month ago have apparently rotted in place from the days and days of rains we had recently. The leaves just pull out of the center of the plant, all mushy. I'm really becoming a convert to this hoophouse business for my climate. Everything inside the HH is doing incredibly well, with the exception of the peppers that may or may not be perking up with the warmth. Okra...but i've never been able to grow okra yet, so no surprise.
The Lakota squash whose image i posted was apparently not fertilized - the male flowers are lagging the females, an unusual thing - but there are oodles more forming. I have lots of insects in the HH, so i'm going to hold off having squash sex until i see if they can manage on their own. I've seen at least three toads, and there is also a flying black insect hunting down aphids, so that problem is well under control if not completely eradicated, no thanks to the spendy lacewings that never hatched.
The wasps are working the trees pretty hard for aphids, too, and with the Tanglefoot to stop the ants from replenishing them, the trees look better than any other year. We put in the pond today for the irrigation scheme i have in mind...looks to be pretty effective against the grasshopper population. Guess i'll have to buy a skimmer. On the plus side...that should be good in compost.
Do you have any pics of your HH inside?
Fresh juicy zuccini is great to bite into, but sometimes it would be nice to be able to saute' it on the spot. Some people want outdoor kitchens for canning, but I was thinking more of simple fine dining with a rustic edge. Maybe a campstove?
I've wondered if I dare try papayas, the way I'm growing figs. But they are even more cold sensitive, and I think they need to get taller to bear fruit. Or are there dwarf varieties? There was a papaya in the West Indies with a maple syrup flavor.......heavenly!
Our favorite summer use for zukes and yellow crooknecks is to slice them into quarters or sixths lengthwise, coat with a little olive oil, garlic powder, oregano, and salt, then bbq on high on the gas grill. Even those who think they don't like summer squash will eat a bunch!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Sounds delicious....and you could do that right in the garden. All the ingredients are there, right?
Yes.We keep adding a little more each year. DW is in charge (by her choice) of garlic, strawberries, flowers, and herbs. So far the garlic is mostly a byproduct of her strawberries since someone told her strawberries and garlic do well together. The strawberries are doing quite well, but we need to plant much more garlic and lessen the reliance on purchased garlic and garlic powder.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I've a friend (logger) who has what they call a skidder in these parts, that has that rear wheel steer....sure looks wierd when it's manuevering in the woods. But did a great job clearing out my hawthornes to redo the old waterline. I got to ride on it.....pretty awesome to have that much power. He was kidding me I needed one. Sure handy when woods need clearing, to to drag trees. But I'd not use it enough, rather hire him to do it. So maybe Splintie could use that Case for her pond.
Even those little backhoe attachments sit alot between uses, then friends say they are a hassle to put on and off, and if not used enough, bad for the lines.
Edited 6/13/2008 4:37 pm ET by intaglio
Even those little backhoe attachments sit alot between uses, then friends say they are a hassle to put on and off, and if not used enough, bad for the lines.
I can install my Ford hoe in 10 minutes. It's a rigid mount, has rails that go under the tractor to the loader mounts. Some of the 3 pt mounts were strong enough to tear the posterior off the tractor. Rails are better.
Your friends perhaps need practice? Or patience.
Mine gets installed maybe twice/year, unless I happen into somebody who needs a light-weight (4500 lb) landscape tractor. I can go places, without damaging mature plantings that larger tractors can't manage. But considering my cost, I find the ROI lacking.
Bertha is worth less than my little orphan Mitsubishi. Generates 3x the income. Not that you were concerned with these issues. I buy machinery for my use, then find clients who will pay for the tractor for me. Then I don't mind if one sits idle for prolonged periods.
BTW, I also endeavor to keep Bertha's wheels on the ground. Much better for the tractor. Skidders are specialized, too much for my use. Bertha can do everything I need along those lines, while being much more versatile.
As close to my ideal as I've seen.PAHS works. Bury it.
Water balloon...i thought you were talking about really, really safe sex.
If there isn't a "water balloon", then it IS really, really safe sex.
;)
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Various things I've read say not to put wood ashes in your garden IF you live in the west and have alkaline soil.Herb Grundel's Complete Guide to Rocky Mountain Gardening may be a source of useful info for you.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I agree the plastic twine is a pig to get rid of in the fall, however it holds up very well and does not stretch when a full load of tomatoes is pulling down on them. I would discourage you from re using it from year to year though, just too good of a way to carry disease over from one year to the next. You would be better off using cotton or jute string that you can throw out.
Thanks for the warning. I'd not have suspected the diseases could overwinter on twine, but no sense taking a chance.
Tieing up maters, I use the plastic grocery bags twisted up and knotted. They degrade by the next season by uv.
Last year with those huge monsters , I had to use rope and 8' 2x2's. Not growingthem this year, I was overwhelmed at canning time.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Click away from here
Do not click here what ever ya do
Bad things happen to those who click themselves
Yup. That's the old way according to what I've read. This is the first year for this method, so we'll see.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Be sure to take pictures and we'll compare. I'm going to incorporate the "Montana weave" <snork> in my tomato-discipline routine this year. I'd better stop talking and start doing; they're growing even in this cold weather.
I can lots of salsa, too, but it doesn't go as fast. I'm working my on recipe until it drops 'em dead with desire for another chip.
It is dang hard to beat a really good fresh salsa/pico. If it wasn't for the lack of good tomatoes for most of the year, I don't think I could tolerate canned salsa anymore.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I agree that fresh is always best! Having some good canned salsa is sure convenient during the winter, though.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I emailed the tent maker and their customer service was prompt. Must be a family business, the rep had the same name as the company. I'm going to email them to ask how high the roof peak is and ask what the expected lifespan of the material is.
"Attached is our pricelist for the style of arch frames we sell that customers use for greenhouses., and pictures of them being used for storage facilities. We normally ship these to the customers and they install themselves or hire contractors to install. "
Armbruster Manufacturing Company
8600 Old Route 66 South Springfield, Illinois 62712
(217)483-2463 (800)637-4326 FAX(217)483-3162
http://www.ArmbrusterTentmaker.com
Email [email protected]
Quonset Hut
Size
Pipe
Rafter
Purlins
Frame
Top
Total
Dimension
Spacing
Price
Price
Top/Frame
20x24
1.66"
6'
3
$900
$1,440
$2,340
20x36
1.66"
6'
3
$1,304
$2,160
$3,464
20x48
1.66"
6'
3
$1,613
$2,880
$4,493
20x60
1.66"
6'
3
$1,853
$3,600
$5,453
20x72
1.66"
6'
3
$2,093
$4,320
$6,413
20x96
1.66"
6'
3
$2,474
$5,760
$8,234
20x24
1.66"
4'
1
$1,034
$1,440
$2,474
20x36
1.66"
4'
1
$1,569
$2,160
$3,729
20x48
1.66"
4'
1
$1,844
$2,880
$4,724
20x60
1.66"
4'
1
$2,153
$3,600
$5,753
20x72
1.66"
4'
1
$2,468
$4,320
$6,788
20x96
1.66"
4'
1
$3,924
$5,760
$9,684
28x24
1.90"
6'
3
$1,349
$2,016
$3,365
28x36
1.90"
6'
3
$1,883
$3,024
$4,907
28x48
1.90"
6'
3
$2,399
$4,032
$6,431
28x60
1.90"
6'
3
$2,789
$5,040
$7,829
28x72
1.90"
6'
3
$3,107
$6,048
$9,155
28x96
1.90"
6'
3
$3,443
$8,064
$11,507
28x24
1.90"
4'
3
$1,469
$2,016
$3,485
28x36
1.90"
4'
3
$2,039
$3,024
$5,063
28x48
1.90"
4'
3
$2,624
$4,032
$6,656
28x60
1.90"
4'
3
$3,053
$5,040
$8,093
28x72
1.90"
4'
3
$3,479
$6,048
$9,527
28x96
1.90"
4'
3
$3,893
$8,064
$11,957 jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Reply from the tent maker on a lower peak on the quonset style and how long does the fabric last:
--------------------------
In regards to the lowered peak, we only sell that in one style. I don't have a source for bending the pipe in shallower curves.
The fabric life span is about 20 years normally.
Let us know if you have any other questions.
Respectfully,
Hellar Armbruster
Armbruster Mfg. Co.
8600 Old Route 66 South
Springfield, IL 62712-8601
http://www.armbrustertentmaker.com
http://armbrustertentmaker.blogspot.com/
Established in 1875
[email protected]
800-637-4326 Phone
217-483-3162 Faxjt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I heard about a couple composting books today....there is a new one just out which Territorial Seeds will be carrying by June: The Complete Compost Gardening Guide, by Barbara Pleasant, 300+ pages......it has info on green manures, and growing veggies, as well as composting. The other is Teaming With Microbes, by Jeff Lowenfels. Another little one, Worms Eat My Garbage.
Don't all greenhouses drip from the ceiling when the inside air is warm and moist, and it's cold outside? I heard that Growing Spaces rain inside. I don't understand how a greenhouse could be dry inside...even with fans, the moisture would still be kept inside...?
Some of the surface covers are designed to avoid dripping. Not saying that the moisture itself is bad, but the dripping on hot leaves with hot water is supposedly not so good for the plants. Just a novice! You know, I read it on the internet.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Oh, yes, I've heard one shouldn't water in the hot sun, could burn the leaves. But often Nature dumps lots of rain in the hot sun, so I go ahead and do it anyhow, and never had any problems. Some say not to water (sprinkle) at night, it can encourage mildews and fungus.....sometimes it's just too hard waiting for all those perfect conditions.....I just water when the plants need it, or when it fits my schedule.
Usually the water waits on the ceiling for me to walk in, then drops!
Yes, convenience often determines my watering, too.I imagine that the local relative humidity, temps, and altitude (sun intensity) make loads of difference and, if everything else is well, random drops wouldn't likely ruin a crop.All the little details of gardening. So many decisions to make with so little verifiable information and so many claims that this or that matters, usually with someone wanting to sell us something! < G >
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Wonder if you could use old cattle tanks as planters? IIRC, they're galvanized steel. Would put plants at a good height. You could add a drain on one end. Can't remember what new ones cost though. You could probably paint them in whatever scheme appealed to you.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Stock tanks seem to be catching on for 'container' gardening and water features - i've seen a few lately - and they have built-in drains. I think you just gave me an excellent idea for something else though...My next big project is a cistern/pool of sorts. My well produces just 10 gpm, so i need to have a reservoir for holding enough water to pump out (with a separate pump) for underground irrigation i installed several years ago and have never gotten to work properly on the pressure and volume i have to work with. I just bought a 1500 gal above-ground pool for $70 to try out my idea of using it as a 'flywheel', but i know the plastic pool wouldn't last forever. If my idea flies, perhaps a 1500-3000 gal stock tank might be the answer, if i don't excavate for a pond instead. Thanks for jiggling my preconceptions!The other hair-brained scheme is to run a loop through it, then run that cold well water through a radiator in the house (sculptural?)...primitive A/C.
Those stock tanks are not cheap, but they are really useful, and longlasting. And great for a quick dip to cool off after gardening!
These hot days, I try to revert to my FL habits: get out there before the sun gets hot (earlier the better), and stop before it gets really bad, then go out again in the evening and work til dark. Always prefered evening gardening to working into the heat of the day. The hot sun makes all decisions harder, and the plants really prefer to be worked with in the cool evenings. However, I just spent a couple days transplanting in the worst part of the day, so anything's possible.
I found a plastic stock tank, 700 gallon, for less than $300, but the Rubbermaid ones that seem to be the standard only go to 350 gallons and cost more. The shipping would be the killer, no doubt. I'll have to do some checking locally if i use that route. The galvy ones are really cool looking, but googling images showed me some pretty rusty ones. In your experience, do they rust quickly or does that take a while?This INTEX pool (http://www.intexcorp.com/easy12x30.htm) i bought will at least let me try my theory out without investing hundreds of dollars up front. I found a mechanical fill valve to use on the hose from the well and a piggyback float switch for the aux. pump...what i don't know is if the pump is appropriate for the application. After perusing pumps in Lowe's, i'm wondering if it's too big.
Those galvanized tanks really take a long time to rust thru, I believe. (of course, perhaps nowadays the metal is thinner?) I've got an ancient one in the woods below my pond, it's no doubt rusted out, but filled with dirt and grasses, and still holds enough water for the cows. Even in FL, tanks seemed to last forever.
I tend to think green manures may do more for the soil than just adding manure/compost, but I've not references on this. Nitrogen fixing things like clover, tho, have a beneficial relationship with certain bacteria: the bacteria provide the plant with access to oxygen from the air, and the legume roots provide nutrition to the bacteria. Then the captured nitrogen is stored in the root nodules. All of that has got to get the soil micro-organisms going good. I like this idea of undersowing legumes in with cabbages/broccoli/corn, etc. (clover is a little invasive, but I just have to learn when to chop it in...I used buckwheat once for a cover crop, but couldn't turn it in....had to see it flower and make buckwheat!)
I've been doing a bit of reading on green manures and the best plan seems to me to be to plant vetch with an annual grass. If/When i get the cistern and pump issues finessed so i have a reliable water supply to all zones, i'll plant then and continue building the soil before i get serious about lawn. I already tried planting a lawn and lost the battle. I've also decided to sequester the dogs to one portion of the yard (and surround the trees in that area with concertina wire!) so that i might have less lawn and more flower beds and 'features' in the rest of the yard.
Maybe we don't need that much lawn. Here it is mowing season already, and the grass is way too vigorous! Now I'm looking at any fenced space, and wondering about decreasing the grass inside it....since it's valuable as a deer-free zone. How close dare I plant my apple trees?!
Maybe we don't need that much lawn.
W don't need trees or greenhouses either, but i noticed once i got a lawn started at my last house that the house stayed cleaner and it was cooler inside. Some of the trees i planted five years ago are just now getting to a stage that they throw actual shade...very nice. I think a bit miore greenery would also help to make this place feel less like an outpost on the moon. I'm not trying to make it all a golf course, but i want to lie in it, i want perennial beds, i want arbors with roses, i want hot-cha-cha!!!
I'm getting your rain! It's a wonderful, soaking rain, it is...lovely...
A tall greenhouse is mostly a convenience for us, isn't it? Tomatoes don't really need to grow that tall. And the taller we go, the more problems we have with wind, etc. Maybe we should do low walls of block, with tomatoes snuggled into them, then covers in lean-to fashion, or PVC hoops from the blocks to the ground (blocks already have holes for running pvc into.
Has anyone tried Solar Pods from the book Solar Gardening, by Leandre and Gretchen Poisson? It's full of excellent diagrams and instructions of contruction. Uses flexible fiberglas sheeting called Sunlite to form low arches with ends (Pods), which go on top of bases/beds of 2x6's. No need to deal with wind blowing plastic, or snow sagging it....and lasts much much longer. I believe they were trialed commercially in the NE. Also shows Solar Cones made of the same material. I tried to track down the material years ago, and came to a dead end...perhaps now I can google it. Could really use some Solar Cones right now! (raining and cool)
I just read up on the Solar Pods and the thing that caught my eye was the $75 price tag for a 4x8 bed. It did give me the idea of seeing how far i can push lettuce in the hoophouse this fall/winter, though. Set up some cloches inside, see if i can get some fresh greens early in the season....
***************************************
Today i tallied the cost of my 13x49 hoop house:
280 LF of 2x8 @ 1.13 ...........$316
(30) 2x4 @ $4.......................$120
34 1" PVC ribs @ 2.25.............$76
2 1-1/4" PVC, cut in half...........$5
1/2" metal purlins, 10 @ $2....$20
6 mill visqueen.........................$40
Screws, misc.............................$30
Total.......................................$607
This doesn't include the irrigation system, the lath holding the plastic down, the stakes (old pipe) or the inflatable alligator. I actyally obtained a lot of the treated 2x4s at 75% off in Lowe's discount rack.
The major cost is treated PT for the beds. Concrete block to do the same, one block high, would be 210 block @ $1.60 = $336....and i don't know how many trips my Toyota would need to make to haul them. The nice part about wood beds is that i can actually raise them up a couple inches without the dirt pouring out under the sides, making the effective depth about 9".
Was that the price of a finished Solar Pod, or just materials?
For sure you should be able to overwinter greens in there, with double or triple protection. Since they don't do any growing during the two darkest months, the amount of wrappings you give them won't matter. I did have a rodent get in one winter, and eat everything off :>(
I was thinking about concrete blocks and the amount of usable space they take up, compared to a 2" thick board. Using the Solar Pod ideas, you would use rigid insulation inside the 2x8's, and perhaps achieve similiar heat value to a concrete block.
It was on a website from '99, i think, and it mentioned $50 for the Sunlite and the framework of the cover, and $25 if you had to buy materials for the box it sat on.It seems to me one could manage the same thing with a cast-off thermal window. You still have to raise/lower the solar pod, and the pod needs to be insulated on the sides, so not all the credit goes to the cover for insulating the greens. It seems a high-tech way of doing the mundane, but whadda i know?Do you know if anyone's tried a foam-insulated hot-bed? It might be that chemical reaction is preferable to solar gain in the shoulder seasons.
I think the Pod is supposed to raise the height inside the bed, similiar to our hoop uses. In their book, they show theirs in use, insulated with rigid polystyrene.
They also mention using treated wood, and did not find any problems with the chemicals when they researched it, altho organic standards don't allow it. They recommended painting untreated wood with a treatment of some kind, and even of painting treated wood (white inside to reflect onto the plants).
They also had a thin layer of 'angel hair' insulation between two layers of the Sunlite. Their temperature charts show that an uninsulated cover will get hotter in the day, but not stay as warm at night as an insulated one, Plants prefering an even temperature, they found the insulation (in the cover/Pod) was better.
Their book is full of alot more gardening ideas than just the appliances, so I'd recommend it.
In their book, they show theirs in use, insulated with rigid polystyrene.
While people are quite concerned about wood treated with copper, no one seems very concerned yet about the plastics in contact with soil. I read on GardenWeb about a new bacterium called B-16 associated with the breakdown of bisphenol-A (BPA, an endocrine disruptor) in commercial compost. Think of all the plastic mulch, compost bins, cloches, walls o'water made of plastic that are subject to high heat conditions...
It seems to me that the organic-gardening community has some obvious blind spots. Cedar and redwood don't rot very fast simply bec they naturally contain what would be called 'toxins' if added to the wood by humans. A pilot project in the Bronx uses a green roof with shredded polystyrene to make the lightweight soil - no word on whether the leachate was examined for plastic by-products.
To be fair, i was on the website treatedwood.com last night that suggested ACQ lumber wasn't suitable for gardens, though no research was cited. I looked at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet...http://www.treatedwood.com/products/preserve/msds.pdf, esp sections 11 and 12) on ACQ-treated wood and while ACQ itself is not listed as a carcinogen, wood dust alone is. View Image
Thanks for the research, I'll have to check those links. Plastics haven't been studied enough it seems, and often 'green' homes use recycled things which are full of plastics. What we can't see......but that construction plastic I just threw over my tomato hoophouse, surely STINKS! I wonder how the plants can stand it, and I don't want to spend much time in there til it airs out.
If in doubt, I just avoid it. I'll just use natural wood in my garden, and if that means I replace it more often, that just gives me more chances to redesign things!
Seen hypertufa?http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Garden/trough.htm
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Hypertufa....have you made it?
Ian had a recipe for spraying it with blended-up cow poop and something else to make his slurry stick...detergent?.... to make it grow moss. I think he thought he was still in England...too funny.
No. Haven't made it. I intend to, though. Sounds like a possible bamboo container, too.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Great idea! It might have some solar collecting ability for heat loving plants like tomatoes & peppers....?
It was a relatively calm day, altho at one point I heard a strange low rumble. Didn't see any signs of wind. When I went out to the garden, it was obvious the Garden Greenhouse Testing Team of Elves had been at work. My tomato hoophouse had 3 of its corners pulled out of the ground, despite the 3 'purlins' screwed to each pvc rib. The plastic was still on, altho no longer buried, and the spring clamps were long distances away.
I dragged a 14' rough sawn 2x4 over for a bottom plate, and staked that down before it got dark, but am really thinking about a different type of greenhouse. I have a starplate connector kit I've never used, and would like to give that a try for a structure. Maybe later this summer.....?
BTW, acorn squash have different storage needs from other squash.....they need it cooler (45-50, not above 55), and should not be cured like other squash. I keep my squash on the steps to the basement, and put the acorn on the coldest/lowest steps.
When the freezes come and I have to pick everything, I've found immature buttercup, hubbard, etc, are delicious also. You've reminded me to do another planting of acorn for fresh eating!
Admit to not seeing that rooftop gardening in the Bronx site yet. I was hoping to plant more tonite when I found the hoophouse disaster.....
The Starplates are interesting, but i'm not convinced yet about one connector at each end. There's one at a house on the road north of here...looks good over many years i've seen it there. Have you seen this site? Looks like a lot of good direction and tips here. http://www.theweebsite.com/ecocabin/starplate/job1.html<<My tomato hoophouse had 3 of its corners pulled out of the ground>>Close call! Mine was 75* wtih the far end open as i was newspaper-mulching today. I put the window back in for tonight, though, as it's windy and rainy here, too.I need to test areas of my basement for temps this fall. I don't think any of it will go below 55* unless i insulate it from the floor above. I got to thinking of this cistern i'm going to have, whether an in-ground cistern structure could be insulated to do double-duty as a food depot. <adjusting thinking cap>
Thanks, I don't know if I still have the instructions that came with the kit. Hmmm....if I want a 10' diameter 'house', it will be 11' tall at the peak.....that seems a little tall for a greenhouse when we want heat on the plants, not at the ceiling. Right now that pvc hoops are making a 10' x 14' space, but not too tall at the center. I just wish ti could be more rigid, without plastic trying to blow. Like the idea of rigid sheets of material. I believe Growing Spaces chose the dome as the best shape to get the most usable space.. The idea is great, the structure provides spaces for venting windows, and doors, and even insulated panels on the north. All those angles would be a construction nightmare, tho (if starting from scratch).
Root Cellaring will give you ideas on storage areas to use or build. Stored veggies is almost like eating fresh from the garden (compared to canned or frozen).
Yes, the Starplate structures, like all the dome ideas i've seen, are big on volume but short on usable space unless you just completely ignore plumb, square, and level notions. I had the funny idea of wrapping the whole thing in that film that sticks to itself, to hold it together. <G>
I'm pretty much ignored root cellaring for not having a place to do it and because i insulated this basement too well to make it possible. If i make enough produce to store quantities in the 'pool', though...
Did you check out the pictures on the link embedded in the link you gave for the Oklahoma wind-proof shelter? There's a pretty good idea there with the cattle panels using a [north, insulated?] wall as one side. They did a slapdash job of it, but the idea has merit. http://home.earthlink.net/~tabletophomestead/greenhouse.html
View Image
Thanks! Another great idea, and the snow would slide right off. I really like the sturdiness of the panels, as opposed to the pvc ribs......and this would give more width to them perhaps.
<"close call">
Ok, so I googled 'windproof greenhouse', and thought you'd get a kick outa this one: http://www.tfrecipes.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-1187.html
kinda like doing arts & crafts shows.....stake it down!
Huge wind here today, so I took off the clips and dropped the plastic to the ground. At this point, frost is unlikely. Need to rearrange the pvc hoops, too, if I go ahead and build ends for this thing. Do you think it'd be ok in winds if I strapped down the plastic on the sides only for now? (at the bottom with lath and screws).
Covering baby tomatoes with the cutoff vinegar bottles for now.....soon it will be summer here! Really wish I could find a source of such 'cloches' a little larger, and at a decent price.
Attaching a pic of a greenhouse I toured in high Colorado.
it didn't attach properly..... so here it is:
View Image
I have more detailed pics if anyone is interested......
Edited 5/22/2008 12:53 pm ET by intaglio
Edited 5/22/2008 12:57 pm ET by intaglio
Not sure about those MSDS...art materials have a similiar listing, yet when I looked up some on pigments we all know are toxic, they were not listed as toxic...!?!
The idea of watering a roof still seems absurd to me.......it would seem better to use the water on a deeper soil, that will hold it longer. But perhaps a nice deep layer of soil, and a veggie garden would work perfectly.
I wonder how long it takes Tordon to break down? I assume the EPA wouldn't allow the use of it if it was very persistent, like DDT used to be.I was wondering if the manure was allowed to sit for a year if the Tordon would break down to the point where it didn't matter...
He was a bold man that first ate an oyster.
Good point about time. Letting manure sit for prolonged periods reduces available nitrogen, but it's pretty easy to just use more manure.
Horse manure is what's readily available here, complete with whatever they're worming the horses with. The solution is to let it sit, breakdown. I low-temp compost so am in no hurry. Lots of worms in my finished compost, so something's working.
Weed seeds that make it though the process strike me as a good thing. A little more effort, but compost works better if you add green. Gotta get it somewhere. No lawn mower here. Weeds work.
I haven't tilled for several years, just sprinkle compost and wait for the volunteers. Excellent dirt, and produce.
"Other Homes and Garbage" has a chapter about designing your compost to your needs. PAHS works. Bury it.
"Letting manure sit for prolonged periods reduces available nitrogen,"That is only because it escapes to the atmosphere. Cover the pile with plastic or wet newspaper and that will keep it collected.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"That is only because it escapes to the atmosphere. Cover the pile with plastic or wet newspaper and that will keep it collected."
While the escaping to the atmosphere is correct, covering it with plastic won't really help.
To make a long story short (for the long version google "nitrogen cycle"), bacteria in the compost pile convert nitrates (main plant available form) to nitrogen gas. This mainly occurs in anaerobic conditions (no oxygen around). So by keeping your compost pile too wet, not turning it enough or covering it in plastic you may acutally lose more nitrogen.
Also some of the available nitrogen is bound by the decomposers who are breaking down the compost. Although this nitrogen is not immediately available, it is released over time as the decomposers die and break down themselves.
A.
How 'bout that!Here I was just repeating what I'd read in some organic gardening article years ago, and I get the straight scopp at FHB Breaktime, the source of all universal truth!;)Thanks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You've set me straight in the past, so I couldn't miss the opportunity to even the score. :)
A.
snork. I can go along with that 1
;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"Horse manure is what's readily available here, complete with whatever they're worming the horses with. "
This caught my eye.......there is a wormer which is dangerous to certain breeds of dogs (collie types, or any crosses from collies)...Ivermectin. If a dog eats manure from a horse wormed with Ivermectin, it can kill him/her. I have no idea how long lasting it is. But even if getting manure from stables, there might be fresh manure in there, and a dog might start digging into it to eat some. Hopefully the #### mixed into stable manure would keep him away?
But even if getting manure from stables, there might be fresh manure in there, and a dog might start digging into it to eat some.
Thanks for the insight. You're correct, almost always fresh manure mixed in. DW keeps telling me I need a dog, but I'm unconvinced. My relationship with visiting canines is to encourage them to be elsewhere, quickly. Lots of hunting dogs around here. I'm protective of my feline buddy who follows me everywhere.
Very rarely see a dog around the house anymore. They've learned.
I was surprised to hear that horse folks routinely worm their stock, whether they need it or not. As I also have no idea what the horses are fed, struck me as prudent to let everything age awhile. Nitrogen loss really doesn't seem to be a problem. And low-temp composting fits nicely into my general demeanor. Jury's still out, far as I know, on whether it's better or inferior to high-temp.
As I'm getting great results, doesn't concern me much. Killing worms would be a problem, but my compost is full of them. PAHS works. Bury it.
The great thing about having dogs here is they protect my yard and garden from the deer. All my neighbors complain of nipped trees and destroyed gardens. Don't you have deer pressure there? I would guess they aren't as inclined, with an verdant forest at hand, to raid someone's garden as they are here, but still....snow peas and beans drive 'em crazy here.
Nobody here can figure out why we don't have deer problems. They're everywhere, in everybody's garden that isn't adequately fenced. Usually even with dogs on the premises.
My guess is the beds are too close to the house, on top actually. Tomatoes and snow peas, major attraction, but no deer. Had just one sole buck get close enough to munch hostas. Shotgun scared it off, only to return the next morning. Repeat, and then get on the phone to see who wanted an out-of-season deer. Nothing we're fond of.
Never saw the buck on the patio again, to the disappointment of one of my hunters. He had freezer space. Other than that one, they don't come closer than the edge of the daylilies, about 15' from the house. Never on the roof, that I know of. Have removed 2 visiting groundhogs there.
Dislike fences, so when I first planted, it was an experiment. Universally predicted to fail. That was 15 yrs ago. Still working.
Dogs discourage turkeys too. Don't want that. Out the window one recent morning, saw a gobbler looking for action. Quite a dance. Was grabbing for the rifle when I noticed Lola stalking it. Would've unhinged her so I left them alone. Gobbler didn't appear to be paying her any mind. Dogs, they do.
That one didn't make it into our oven... yet.
Apple trees I set out this year are behind the house, in cages. I've been watching for nibbles. So far so good.PAHS works. Bury it.
I wonder if the soil over your house feels "hollow" to the deer and they avoid it? How interesting... and i love those ideas that are universally predicted to fail and work anyway. (Maybe i shouldn't be so smug right before i try this inflatable pool business...)
Lola is a first-rate loller. You look fairly adept, too.
Was reading your post regarding your deer problem there and I may have a solution if you haven't yet found it. We have an organic gardening radio talk show here that regularly recommends the use of a commercial product called "Deer Scram," here's the link if your interested:http://www.deerscram.com/
Thanks for posting since others might need that, but in my case the deer were only in the 'outer' yard. I have four acres, with about one acre as a fenced 'inner' yard FOR the dogs, with the garden fenced within that FROM the dogs. The deer were just passing through, communing with the cat, on the way to someone's garden who doesn't have dogs to raise a stink. <G>
Can see why you'd want to protect your feline buddy.....those orange tabbies are always special. I have cats, so run any wandering dogs off, too. Cats are the best at gopher, mice, rat and meadow vole catching. I have a ton of gophers, so actually should have a whole tribe of cats!
Most horse owners don't have their horses checked for worm, they just worm at least twice a year. For years I've used DE (diatomecious earth (sp)) but have one mare that was looking poor, so had her tested....then the vet said I should worm, of course. Avoided Ivermectin, however.
I read something about too much heat during composting causing a black mold.....noticed some of that in my manure heap when I was taking it out to the fields....and it was steaming!! But didn't matter, I wasn't making compost as such.
Old time hot houses/greenhouses used manure for heating.
how long it takes Tordon to break down?
Judging by my 'research', it takes three years. About 15 years ago for a different garden, i got manure from the stockyards...not stinking fresh but not that old either. I tilled it into the garden early in the Spring, then planted that summer's garden in June. That one was full of misshapen, useless plants. The next year wasn't quite so bad and the third almost normal, but it was three years in breaking down, all while i was adding new stuff to the soil. (My neighbors lawn clippings and my sawdust - excellent match!)
I answered an ad for "composted" horse manure in 2004. It looked pretty broken down and mostly i put it in the lawn areas, but some was dumped in the raised beds and I again had some stunted plants, though not as bad and the effect was only for one year. I think the source either didn't know or lied to me about the hay being fed having Tordon in it. Tordon seems to be more accepted as the only thing that kills spotted knapweed, so i just won't chance it anymore.
Considering the link i posted yesterday about antibiotics in manure being taken up in plants, i'm leaning more towards the tried-and-true sawdust/lawn mixture and green manure. It's notable that organic farming guidelines offer no caveats about sources of animal manures.
I don't know the current state of galvanized stock tanks, but waaay back when I was a youth, they took years for the bottoms to rust out. And unless you're planning on moving them a lot, a rusty bottom isn't a problem.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
"I found a plastic stock tank, 700 gallon, for less than $300"Could you tell me where you found that ?The best I have found was about 500 gallons for just less than 300 dollars.
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
http://www.thesolar.biz/Stock_Tanks.htm
I see on second look that they have a note about shipping being as much as the tub.
The INTEX pool i just bought at a Buy Lots was $70 for almost 1500 gals, if that helps at all, with a pump included.
There's a 530 gal one for just $40 online. You just blow up the top ring and it rises as the water level does.
View Image
Um, my neighbor gave me one of those blow-up-the-top-ring swimming pools once.....it had some leak around the valve stem....but I never got it to work anyway........they are kinda wierd, and if your ground isn't perfectly level, of course the water tries to seek the level! (which meant out the other side).
Can't go wrong with a stock tank....you can always set it up under the gutters and collect rainwater. I only have a short 6' gutter, and collect enough water to keep my deck plants going til Julyish. (filling just two red plastic barrels). One could really do alot with gutters and tanks.
Now you've challenged me! I need to dig a shallow circle in the sand, level it, lay the carpet pad in there, blow up and fill the sucker. Be just my luck it'll freeze that same night. <G>
Or else a longhorn bull will break in your yard, and get playful with it!
On your lawn, yes, grass is nice; I just have a little too much to mow, even with 2 horses helping. Most any organic matter will help build some topsoil......in FL after we built the house, I didn't seed grass, but just started mowing whatever came up, and soon I had grass. When I moved here, it was all knapweed out to the corrals. I just started watering, and mowing (well, sything til I bought a tractor)...had all grass in less than 5 years. It's rewarding to watch the grass creeping across the knapweed patches and choking them out. But not so fun to see grass trying to get at my garden!
The only place i have any 'lawn' is around the trees that have been/will be on drip irrigation until the Automatic, underground irrigation system is functional. I've been busting butt digging the 'lawn' out to put mulch-mats around the boles to KEEP grass out. Oh, the irony of it all!I'm giving a real lawn one more try, then i'll go with 'pasture' and invite the neighbor's horses to come mow. You know, i'm already liking that idea better...
Thank you for the info.I intend to use a tank to collect rainwater.I was thinking of tanks that are completely sealed, with some sort of lid. Like plastic cisterns and/or septic tanks.Where I am, I am going to have to keep out not only the mosquitos, but the full gamut of varmints.Looking at the stock tank, I get visions of bolting some sort of plate to the top of it. LOL
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
http://www.ntotank.com/vewata1.htmlMight check these guys out.
Now we're talkin !!I bookmarked the site.Wondering why thier 625 gallon tank is cheaper than their 500 gallon tank...
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
The INTEX pool i just bought at a Buy Lots was $70 for almost 1500 gals, if that helps at all, with a pump included.
Gonna put fish in it too? :) Actually, it sounds like the cheapest way to hold 1500 gals of water. You wouldn't be able to buy a stock tank that size for that price.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Fish farming...now there's an idea to take care of the catfood dilemma... hmmm....
I can see the pond/tank/pool level fluctuating a lot bec the pump transferring it to the irrigation system will probably push water faster than it fills from the well, but i admit i'm shooting in the dark here until i study up on this further.
If the IDEA works, i'll probably put in a pond bec i have an idea for a fountain using an old satellite dish i've been aching to try out. I scavenged a bunch of gas jets from old gas stoves to add to the merrriment.
And great for a quick dip to cool off after gardening!
About 10 years ago, on the hottest day in years, my wife got inspired, drove to the local feed store, bought a stock tank (about 3 x 6 feet and 30 inches high), brought it home, filled it with water and we now refer to it as our "swimming pool".
Those plastic ones make great hot tubs. Combine it with an undercounter HW heater.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
<"filled it with water and we now refer to it as our "swimming pool">
Those big round ones (8'? 10'?) are pure swimming luxury for a kid!
A full sized farm pond is always great to have. But you've gotta have runoff or water from somewhere to keep it topped off.
If what you're after is a cistern, you might be able to find a poly tank made for that purpose for around the price of a large cattle tank? In the ground is always nice if you don't like to see it freeze.
And I tell ya... the area where my project house is located has a high water table and municipal water is pricey. But every day I go out there, I see water running down the gutters along the sides of the road where neighbors' sump pumps continue to pump away. They pump nearly continuously from about Nov-August. between the various houses sump pumps, there is enough water flowing for moss to grow on the concrete gutter. I just stand there and wonder if there isn't some way for me to capture that water. I could fill a cistern up in no time.
The other hair-brained scheme is to run a loop through it, then run that cold well water through a radiator in the house (sculptural?)...primitive A/C.
Here is the midwest, it is typically super humid during the cooling months, so your radiator would have water dripping off it (so we'd have to put a drain or bucket under it).jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Yes, the pond is appealing and i have a well with 10gpm so my water only costs what the electricity costs...relatively cheap. Letting water run down the gutters just to buy it back seems crazy to me!
I thought of an underground tank, but i have plenty of room and i'd like to be able to clean it easily and aboveground makes it easier to get to inlets, floats, all that jazz, too.
I've been envisioning watering in the early morning, draining while concurrently filling the pool/pond. I'm not sure how much it would heat up over the day, but i don't think too much according to reports from a neighbor who heats his pool in the summertime. I could jump in and cool off in the afternoon myself, then use the pump included in this system for filtering the yuckies out to pump it through the radiator in the house in the hottest part of the day.
Humidity??? What's that??? At least it's a dry 100-degrees here! ;^)
You mention the well. how reliable is your well? Don't know if I'd want to keep filling up a pond if the well was my only source of water.
my water only costs what the electricity costs...relatively cheap
There are windmills and PV that will pump water.
Letting water run down the gutters just to buy it back seems crazy to me!
Exactly. Paying $$ for something you've already paid to pump. You might just have easily pumped it into a tank or cistern or just into the yard. And the water they're running down the drain would be a WHOLE lot better for their gardens and yards than the heavily chlorinated city water they're using.
I suppose you could start a new thread about creating the pond. I think BH had one a year or so back, but he didn't get into the filling and stocking of the pond.
And just think of the dirt pile you could have from excavating a pond! Enough dirt to fill beds and planters and anything else (or partway fill the planter and then put better soil on top).
Humidity??? What's that??? At least it's a dry 100-degrees here!
I'm one of those folks who likes the dry heat. Humid weather tends to clog my nose for some reason. So hot, humid weather can make me feel like a fish on the beach. Last couple summers it has gotten up to 100 outside and up to 110 in the project house. With humidities in the 90's. waaay to muggy for my fat butt to work in.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
"And just think of the dirt pile you could have from excavating a pond!"I guess that depends where you are. Go deeper than 8" or less here and it is magic mud or brick making material
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Perfect !! Adobe wall for the north side of the solar green house. A "twofer";-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Adobe naturalizes in a wet climate though.That is why we call it magic mud, LOL
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how reliable is your well?
The well is very reliable and i have a good static level, but the problem is that the drillers went through fine sand and ash for a long ways according to the well log before finally calling it good. My guess is they were worried about going past the water before finding a gravel seam. There's a layer of water at about 150', where my pump is set, and another at about 400, which level is unfortunately full of iron/rust. The next house over from me had a 30 gpm well. It costs $30/ft to drill a new hole or extend this one if it collapses completely, so i'm trying the pond thing first.
I only have trouble with sand sloughing when i've tried the underground irrigation system connected directly to my house lines. There's something about those solenoids slamming shut that jars the whole shebang into dumping very fine sand in the well. I have a 50 micron filter on the house i never have to clean all winter, but one session on the timer/valves/solenoids and it's chock full of sand. The holding tank will accomplish two things: let me fill it without the pump getting vibrated and let me pump out with more pressure than my pressure tank is set for so my sprinklers work better. (I think...i'm hazy on how i regulate that on the Myers 1/2 HP jet pump i acquired, which i confess means nothing to me yet.)
I'd also like to run the rain gutters into the pool. After all i said about "desert", it's raining for the first time since...well, since it last snowed, i think! And there's the way it would be a preferable distribution system for the...um...liquid gold compared to a 5 gal. honey bucket carried around the yard.
And just think of the dirt pile you could have from excavating a pond!
I have the best beach sand here leftover from Glacial Lake Missoula. No drainage problems, that's for sure.
The Forest Service stock tank sounds about right. One of the things i liked about the pool idea is being able to easily take them down in the summer time. A pond is quite romantically appealing...
We had a loooong string of 100*+ days last summer....thought i was back in the Central Valley. So...serious thought is being given to po' woman's A/C!
"No drainage problems, that's for sure."When I lived in Kremmling CO, we were on a 60' deep gravel bed. Nobody used perimeter drains of any kind. Our ave rain there was about 15"
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Water storage can also be accomplished economically by having a large hole dug and lining it with pond liner (or just 6 mil, to cheap out for the first year or two). You can cover the surface with a layer of regular construction 6 mil poly to cut evaporation. I haven't seen them for sale, but the Forest Circus puts out stack tanks in remote areas around here that look like the base frame of a round trampoline with a heavy poly/fabric liner hanging in it.Or, if you want to play at art while making water storage, you could build a ferro-cement tank in whatever shape you can imagine! (Google for ferro-cement tanks and you'll get plenty of ideas.)
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I have a BCS from about '84. I replaced the engine in about '98 or '99.Right on about the sickle mower! One thing that will slow it down ( or at least the operator) is running into a hornets nest when mowing alders. I am currently looking for a log splitter attachment for mine. Are they still making them?
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What's a "BCS"?
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently. [Nietzche]
http://www.bcs-america.com/attachments.cqs Been around since the mid 70's, I believe although the name has changed from the original .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I think they started making them in Italy around time of the second WW.
Maybe just started importing them here in the seventies.Maybe Boss has heard of Gravely walking tractors
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That is correct. I actually looked into being a dealer for the PNW back when they first came to this country in the early/mid 70's. Troy Built was the rage and I thought BCS was a far better machine. Lack of capital sunk my ability to nails down a dealership/ Repping deal.
I was able to snag one for test use though for one summer, very quality machine.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"Maybe Boss has heard of Gravely walking tractors"
Yup - I have. We have one at the local hysterical society.
I just didn't know anyone made anything along those lines anymore.
The man who lives in the past, robs the present.
walking tractorhttp://www.bcsshop.com/index.htm
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What is the advantage of having a chipper attachment if it costs as much as a separate chipper? jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Good question - one reason I never bought their snowblower.I do think their stuff is a bit higher quality than most of the basic stand alone stuff for the same price tho.
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Most of BCS attachments are better designed, higher quality than the equipment sold at or near the same price. Single power plant is very cost effective as long as the attachments are built with matching quality, less over all maintenance on different engines.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
And theoretically less storage space required.
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Honda had a similar concept, only with there units all that was moved was the engine. Machine shared the power plant. Had a simple lever lock hold down and quick disconnect throttle assembly, belt drive units, they never really even got started here though before they switched to the more accepted multi machine norm . I had one of there first imported tillers, 3 Hp engine could be dismounted in seconds and used as a separate power plant for other tools. Finally drove it off a proverbial cliff (gave it away )at the age of about 30. Still started and ran fine.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Yellowjacket nest for me - LOL
Looks like the log splitter is no longer offered in the states; they used to offer a lot more farming attachments (pumps, sprayers, etc.) that are common on the hillside farms in Italy but aren't on their US site: http://www.bcs-america.com/
Now I'm trying to remember if the PTO is same as other three point hitches on tractors. Northern tool has a splitter made for a three point hitch
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IIRC it's smaller, and of course metric. Could be similar to some of the smaller garden tractors? I'm getting a dim memory of an adaptor to a different size for some reason or other (or maybe it was just a connector to the shaft on the pump). I'm sure the distributor could answer that one...
They do have an easy on/easy off coupler for th e drive that shortens the time for hooking up but adds a couple of inches and throws the balance farther from the axle
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You'd love loaning tools to me.
Few years ago I had a coupla kids helping me with a landscape project that needed a rototiller. I couldn't find one at the rental houses closeby, so one of the kids says, "Hey, my BIL has a big one!" So off he goes to borrow it.
So we begin and within a few minutes, the engine throws a rod out the side of the block.
A week later, after I had found another rental house with one and the borrowed one had a new $800 engine, it went back.
I don't like to borrow.
Looks like a vegetable POW camp ;)
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
"one never knows what will light a fire on this forum."I'm geting so inspired, I'm ready to run out and play in the garden and forget all about BT for the summer
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Looks like the damage catastropillars can do.
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catastropillars
Just in case anyone missed that...how funny!
Glad you caught it.
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sg,Nice hoops.Aphids can be controlled with a soap and alcohol spray.Grasshoppers can be deterred with a garlic spray. Neem works as an IGR. Nosema is a single cell parasite for control. Diatamaceous (sp) earth cuts them up so they die.Lots of things you can plant around the hoops to act as a barrier, like
marigolds, calendula, horehound, mints.KK
I've done soap, but alcohol was hard on the plants when i tried that. Some are probably more sensitive than others, and i suppose it matters what age they are. I was trying to control damping off earlier this year with a number of home remedies off the Net (hydrogen peroxide, cinnamon, vinegar) and knocked some of my seedling for a loop. Turns out keeping a fan running was all they needed...so simple.
I do wish to try Neem. I've read a lot of good about it, but haven't seen it for sale anywhere - just see the same Scott's/Ortho/etc. stuff all over, so i'll have to order it. I've just read about garlic, too, and i enjoy the smell, so i'll shoot for that as a remedy, too.
Diatomaceous earth didn't knock the grasshoppers nor the ants who farm the aphids, unfortunately. I got a big bag of diatoms with high hopes for them, but no go. I used a grasshopper bait at the height of the infestation...helped, but for less than a week, and it was expensive. I tried the garlic plants, marigolds, etc. - no help. Maybe in a normal year, but last year the bugs really were plague-level in my area. Interestingly, they ate everything but the beets to the ground - even ate the leader off my gingko tree! - so i'm growing LOTS and LOTS of beets this year. Pickled beets with ginger....mmmm...
I'll look into nosema...haven't heard of those before.
You sound like a mondo-gardener, so i'm very happy you found this thread!
Hey, you've got a following! Is it the gardening idea, or all those colorful hoops?!
For your grasshoppers, Peaceful Valley Farm Supply has Nolo Bait, which is the nosema parastic protozoa. I believe a friend told me (the year we had grasshoppers) that it was important to apply it just before the peak....when the little baby grasshoppers are just starting to appear. Hey, what about raising the right birds in there, to eat the grasshoppers?!
Peaceful Valley also has Slug Saloons for you. Plus all the greenhouse plastics and row covers.
I'm still looking for ideas on making my cattlepanel greenhouse wider...and taller would be nice (I get tired of ducking everytime I go in and out, to miss the little upper automatic vent 'windows' I made). Really hoping to see ideas on using twin wall polycarbonate. After 5 years with this wovenplastic-covered structure, I think the insulating value of twin wall is the next step up. However, hoops have the advantage of speed and ease. Where I am, I can clip shade cloth to them in the heat of summer, then put up the plastic before Fall frosts. This year I may try clipping floating row cover to a large hoophouse/tunnel, leaving it on all summer (I get a cold downdraft at night that chills plants, but summer days are too hot in the plastic covered greenhouse (had to move up to the densest shadecloth).
Thanks to the originator of the concrete block idea for compost heaps......we need all the heat help we can get to make compost here!
With that mushroom compost, I'm not sure the credit can go totally to the hoophouse for your huge harvests! (I know, the plants wouldn't be alive -in Montana - without the hoophouse.)
Is it the gardening idea, or all those colorful hoops?!
Oh, you know how people like shiny, plastic ####... <big grin>
Sounds like Nolo Bait is the trick and applying it soon would be a good idea. I'm finishing up the irrigation manifold and drip system this morning and setting out the buddy seedlings afterward to host my aphid-munching lacewings. Big Day in store, but i'll look at PV catalog when i come in tonight.
I'll so extraordinarily happy to start this thread...i called all over the local area looking for beneficial insects and most of the places just sounded befuddled and wary, like i might be involved in santeria or something. All offered to sell me some chemicals that would do the trick, though! I know there have to be folks locally who garden organically; i'm just not connecting with them so far.
The strength in the cattle panels is the two-way rigidity of the welded wire grid, but if you wanted the rigidity of the panles with the width of my hoophouse (13'), you could use PVC pipes or rebar with the panels wired to the longer ribs.Those panels have really gone up in price from when i first looked at them a few years ago, when i was contemplating my first hoophouse. I was able to spread the legs an extra foot in width over the previous HH by raising the ribs to the level of the tops of the bed. I still have 7' of headroom inside.
I thought about attaching fencing on the lower ribs of mine for rigidity (and as a trellis) since i went to almost 3-foot centers instead of the previous 2-foot centers, but the place is quite sturdy, probably more so for being as long as it is.
I'm not that convinced about summer heat hurting the plants anymore. One of the lessons of my old HH was how extraordinarily well the cole crops grew despite being as hot as it was inside.
I've used the mushroom compost at another garden, but this is my first load of it for this one. I actually had used some of that Tordon-laced manure here (the reason i don't trust what farmers tell me about their poo piles anymore), but it recovered after a couple years.
I have to check the recycle store for concrete blocks now...i like that idea a lot.
One day away, and I see what I've missed: you are really getting the irrigation system ready to go! That is my one problem every summer....come on over and set up my water?//**
Yes, those cattlepanels want to form a steep U shape, no way to make them into a shallower one...and there is not alot of headroom....but isn't less space going to stay hotter? Perhaps too hot, I have problems with that. Also, on the heat topic, Eliot Coleman warned about hoophouses that were longer than a ratio of their width, without vents in each end...can't find the book now, I'll post these facts later. He observed hoophouses in France, where they do demi-lunes for vents...the whole top half of each end hinges down.
Your mention of Tordon reminded me again, and I panicked....my horse manure is usually organic, but this year I ran out of hay, and bought 2 bales...and I just brought over two tractor loads to use in the garden. If my carrots turn wierd and keel over, I'll let ya'll know. Two bales in a winter's worth of manure is not alot, but I can't chance it!
For all my dislike of digital cameras (compared to 'real' 35mm cameras), I have 75 shots of a local woodworker's work to work on and transfer to CD. Gardening time later....
I got to thinking about a possible way to combine a couple cattle panels to make them less parabola-shaped and to lengthen them beyong the 16' length they come in which constrains the effective width of the HH they can make:
If a person overlapped them a foot or two or three and tack-welded or wired the overlap, i imagine the extra beef at the apex would tend to keep it from bending as sharply. The cost though...over $20 a lineal foot of greenhouse just for the panel! I think i spent less than a ninety bucks for all the conduit, including those purlins i have to replace now. >:^(
Irrigation is done except for over the strawberry beds, whose center row is planted with snow peas for which i have to build a trelllis tout de suite! I have several length of 3/4" copper pipe i pulled out of this house before replumbing...i want to use that for the framework trellis framework.
Some more shots of the beds planted and the 40' of trellis for the beans and cukes. I should have planned ahead bec i had very little headroom to get the galvy pipe posts started.
I'm going to coast along like this for a day or two more to be sure the watering is skookum before i mulch it with newspapers.
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Strawberry beds newly transplanted...yeah, they look sick now, but just you wait...
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And the difference i found in growing things in stryo cups (51 for a dollar at the Dollar Store) and the plastic multi-packs. Both sets of tomatillos were planted Mar. 29.
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Edited 5/17/2008 7:22 pm by splintergroupie
You left out something in your photo pictorial of whats planted. http://www.cannabis-pictures.com/cannabis_plants_small.jpg
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Such healthy little babies...'course, with my luck i'd find out too late i was growing oregano.
be i have to get your recipe for this spaghetti sauce!
The cattlepanels actually will form a lower wider arch...but that's so low one would not be able to stand up inside. Your idea might work...unless they decided to form a square around the welded part! I've also thought of combining them with walls of concrete blocks...would add height and heat collecting ability. When I bought them, they were only $11 each (2003)....still, they take the winter snowload, so are worth it for that. In winter they just grow/overwinter salad greens, so the whole house doesn't need to be large. One could actually achieve the same thing with several hotbeds for greens, and then the hoophouses for summer. The cattlepanel greenhouse was an experiment in surviving winter snowloads here...a move toward a more permanent greenhouse.
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The greenhouse is 5 years old, perhaps I should replace the woven greenhouse plastic this year..(?)
For many crops, just a help getting started is all they need here, like this low tunnel/cloche:
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I can start zuccini a month or so earlier than in the open. The plastic bottles full of water help to keep it warm on cold nights. Then in Fall, I just toss floating row cover over the huge plants, to extend the harvest.
I use these little 'cloches' to warm soil, for starting tender crops, and also for overwintering salad greens. They take the snowload, forming an igloo in deep snows. I can switch the plastic to floating row cover for milder weather, and eventually shade cloth if needed. As the crops outgrow them, I just put them away til Fall.
All our attempts at creating a perfect climate when Nature isn't cooperating!
Your little tomatillos in multipacks just ran out of growing space! Here's a pot I find they like:
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My peppers and tomatillos only did well last year in black pots on my deck. Maybe someone could start a thread about deck gardening!
PS The Eliot Coleman advice on greenhouse overheating: "removing the ends will provide adequate summer ventilation of a tunnel as long as the length of the tunnel is no more than three times its width."
Edited 5/18/2008 6:47 pm ET by intaglio
Things look like they're really popping inside the cattle-panel greenhouse! It looks a lot less billowy than mine, too, though it's been howling today and all's well in there. I was shocked at the new cattle panel prices, too. When i first looked into getting them they were $16 each, but when i called this Spring they quoted $32 at the same feed/farm store. I should have checked Pacific Steel - they'd propably have a better price. I also like that you don't have to deal with purlins, though i like my 7' headroom. The concrete block/cattle panel idea has a lot of merit...yeah, i like that a lot.Eliot Coleman never lived on Illinois Bench... I had to close one of the doors on the HH today because the wind was blowing through it so hard the plants were bending; ventilation is definitely not a problem here! However, the baby grasshoppers are - they've already found the okra to munch. Not the stuff planted outside, just inside the greenhouse. Apparently i've created an 'attractive nuisance' for them. :^( So, Nolo it is...(Congrats on posting pics!)
We had one of those Spring whirlwinds/mini tornado today.....I learned that plastic sides simply buried with dirt are not enough, even on a very low tunnel. Had both ends opened a little to keep it from cooking my new squash seedlings...came out later to find the whirlwind had simply pulled the plastic free all along both sides! (Probably I did not have enough plastic, buried deep enough, but it showed me what wind can do, so I'd vote for screwed down sides if it were to stay up all season.)
The cattlepanels do have alot of advantages, and that woven plastic never seems to expand and contract either.
On the other hand, the R value on that redwood greenhouse is awful attractive.
Grasshoppers on the okra.....OH NO! (funny how the rarity of something makes it precious.....when I lived in FL, I never felt that way about okra.)
(Copy and paste from IE to IE worked fine on my computer.)
<<the R value on that redwood greenhouse>>T'were me, i'd use the glazing out of remaindered patio doors instead of the ungodly expensive polycarbonate panels. The patio door thermal panes comes in standard sizes for either 5' or 6' openings, they're tempered, and you can get them out of the free newspaper ads all the time from people who are changing out old alum ones for something more energy efficient. I've also bought them very inexpensively at glass stores after removal from their customers' houses in change-outs. The door panels come apart with screws, and then you can recycle the aluminum for $$$. Garbage = usable panes + money.<<woven plastic never seems to expand and contract either>>I'm liking it more and more. When this 100' length of 6 mill is toast...Sentimentality about okra....we've gone 'round the bend, eh? Sure is warm out tonight. I just planted roses and irises in pots for the time being and drenched them outdoors. Downright balmy...
With your cattle panel setup... Is there any way to put a row of salvaged windows down either side and then mount the cattle canopy on top of that? Thereby increasing your headroom by whatever the window height is.jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
That would work, building a wall of windows. But I've also thought of concrete block wall up a couple feet, then the cattlepanels on top of that. They could even spread wider then, in a less steep arch. And the concrete blocks would give it mass, for a heat sink. Altho, if run north-south, each short wall would block sunlight part of the day. If run east-west, the north wall could be of concrete blocks higher than the south. wall...maybe the cattlepanel would act like a Slinkey there, span the difference. These ideas all sound like alot more work...
I'm also wondering if the metal of the cattlepanel makes the temperature inside the greenhouse colder than a comparable one made of just PVC and plastic. It always feels a little colder in there (than it should) and if it freezes outside, it often nips things in there that aren't covered with row cover. All conditions are not equal enough for a test, but I just wonder about the metal drawing heat away....
We have had Brussles sprouts making up into december a few times.I am curious about what kind of PT bed frames you use that is safe for food production. I know the old arsenic treated would release toxins with the acids in compost. The copper seems like it would discourage a lot of pests, but too much would be bad for humans. Yours the borate kind?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
what kind of PT bed frames you use that is safe for food production
The thing is, i never really dug up any information that seemed credible on the health effects to the vegetable consumer on the deleterious effects of even CCA wood, let alone the ACQ, which is what i used. Touching the wood directly and inserting fingers in one's mouth, as kids will do, was the worry with CCA used in playground equipment, but this from Taunton was one of the least hysterical and best-sourced articles i found:
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00028.asp?
When I was researching PT before the big change, I found that the older CCA would be safe as long as it was not subjected to heat, or to acids. Stomach acid would thus free up the arsenic to move into the bloodstream. Same theory was that manure acids in compost would free it to be taken up into the plants and store there, esp in root veggies. But I am thinking about bordereing our raised beds with some leftover slightly used ACQ on theory that the copper will repell slugs and some other bugs. Some [people use copper strips laid around plants to keep slugs off.Out last gardening we tried notill methods, but the slugs were three times as bad living right in the compost.This has been a great thread so far.I am actually surprised that kind of structrue handles the kind of winds you guys can get out there.Another idea for frames -
You knowthose "Cover-it" structures that garden and farm supplieers sell? Lots of people here have bought them for equipment and other temp storage. a lot are now getting away from them. One customer had two on two different properties. I built him new garage and a new tractor shed and he gave me the old shelters for hauling them off. The covers are half worn out from UV damage, but most wear on one side only.So I plan to erect one frame with a double cover on it for my firewood storage, and then the other frame with a plastic greenhouse cover like your hoop house for next year.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You knowthose "Cover-it" structures that garden and farm supplieers sell?
I have one of those covering my leftover supply of hardwood lumber (about 2000 BF) and misc house partz. The tarp wore out after four years, but a neighbor who didn't tie his down sufficiently to the ground gave me a replacement tarp this Spring. Replacement tarp sets are available online for about a hundred dollars, too.
I see a lot of mangled frames as i drive around. Having done art fairs all those years, i have a healthy respect for the ability of tents to fly for short distances so i have pallets at each corner with a ratcheting strap between each one and the tent frame, and load the pallets. That thing isn't going anywhere.
I've thought of reusing mine for greenhouse after i no longer need the extra house partz and the lumber is either sold or used somewhere, but the centers on the rafters are spaced too far for greenhouse film, i'm pretty sure. I was thinking of buying another structure and shortening up the ridge pieces to narrow the spacing on the rafters. I was also considering i could cut it in half and use it as a lean-to framework on the south side of my house with narrower rafter spacing. I bought mine at a Costco and the metal is really first rate, making a very sturdy framework unlike some i've seen in lighter gauge metal. The price is astonishingly cheap...i paid $169 for mine.
You're as bad as Rez. Now you've got me thinking, "what if..."
My project house used to use a septic tank but was then converted to city sewer. There is a 3" ABS pipe in the basement leading to what I suspect is the old septic tank.
What if I converted that to a cistern and pumped the neighbor's sump water into it! And then could water the lawn or whatever! :)
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
What if I converted that to a cistern and pumped the neighbor's sump water into it!
Your neighbor would be wanting to charge you in no time flat, lol...
It doesn't look like much, but it is CONSTANTLY flowing. Stays wet and moss grows like it was a mini-stream or something.
Hmm, find some way to capture it... convert the old septic to cistern.. then route it from the street to the 'cistern'. Then pump it whenever I want to water the lawn or such.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
If your neighbor is pumping sump water, i wonder that your old tank wouldn't hold water on its own without having to fill it from outside. If the water level is that high, maybe you could just drill holes in the old tank?
(Concrete or plastic??? If concrete...that's some work; if it's plastic, get intaglio's shooter over!)
"but most wear on one side only"Inside or out ?;o)
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
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The moment of truth came when the 20x50 sheet of visqueen needed to be attached. It had been very to extremely windy for the three or four weeks i've been working on this, even snowing several times, which delayed progress repeatedly.
Three days ago i got going at the crack of 9 a.m., the calmest part of the day. I stapled the visqueen along the 49'-long edge of the 2x4s holding the ribs, then screwed a piece of 1x over the visqueen, clamping it between the wood with the plastic hanging down. I worked on the east edge bec of the light east wind.
I was able to use the slight wind to plaster the plastic to the ribs as i worked my way down and back, pulling it up the side and eventually over the top of the arch, working from inside. When the visqueen cleared the arch, i ran outside, caught it and began using spring clamps to fasten it quickly to the edge of the bed until i could staple it and fix the lath over. What had begun as a daunting proposition ended rather anti-climactically.
This shows the clamp i made for the arch end of a 1/2 piece of PVC pipe the next size larger (1-1/4") than the ribs, which are 1" diameter. I split it with the bandsaw, then planed it to make it purty...and rainbow'd it. <G>
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I don't care for the lath business, but i'll work on something more elegant for next year.
Another view, pre-trimming, showing the flexible PVC 'clamp':
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So...i trimmed the plastic, fringed it with scissors, and gave the hoophouse bangs...
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Bug's eye view...
The colorful patches at mid-span are pieces of craft foam i got at the Dollar Store, taped in place before the plastic was flown over. They cushion the join where the sharp edge of the bell might cut the plastic. The extra plastic that was stapled to the end panels framing was trimmed back to look nicer.
The purlins are 1/2" PVC.
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Edited 5/15/2008 6:08 am by splintergroupie
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Nice touch with the fringe! Cant take the hippie out of ya, can ya.
Interesting thread, injoy it a lot, reminds me of when my dad was still alive and we were younger, God I hated all that garden stuff when I was young, sorta miss it now.
Doug
Cant take the hippie out of ya, can ya.
I've already got a blow-up alligator in there and some Flower-Power stickers to sprinkle around the sheeting. I was burning incense yesterday as i was working on the beds, but that was mostly to combat the smell of mushroom compost, made of chicken manure, lime, straw and who knows what else. It's heat-sterlized so i don't get any mushrooms out of it, sad to say, but what a ghastly stink after the place is closed up overnight....smells like a VW van after a road trip. <G>
Beautiful !! I like the color scheme as well. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Color scheme...you know, i start laughing as soon as i walk in there. OTOH, could be the compost talking...
As i was making it, i'd get impatient to just get it DONE bec it was taking so much longer than i anticipated. Then i'd think about how long it will be up compared to how long it would take to decorate it; it made sense to play like a little kid, then.
And here I was thinking it was the odor like that of the VW van that inspired you.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I love it. Great thread. There is a special feeling about being in a greenhouse, surrounded by growing things, when not much is growing on the outside.
Keep the photos coming.
I haven't gardened in years, so let me garden vicariously through you.
There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.
Well, now you see how easy it is...so easy even a cavegirl can do it. Go to it, time's a-wastin'! ;^)
Splintie,Great project there.I might steal your design and make a relatively inexpensive garage. I am just growing some tomatoes and peppers this year.Cheers,B.C.
One thing to steer away from is enclosing one end and not the other. If wind gets in/under and can't get out - say, when you're part-way through a change in coverings, take a break for lunch, then this great whomping gust comes out of the north and flips the whole kit-n-kaboodle over on its back - your Plast-o-shed becomes rather less aerodynamic than it thinks it is.
Congrats on getting published, MR. Campbell! I'm tickled pink and purple that you're getting the recognition your outstanding quality and creativity so richly deserve and also enjoying your head-scratching on the radiused-trim thread. Ian was a third-generation builder in England and used to regale me with tales of running foot-tall crown with plaster. My recollection is they used a burlap backing and a piece wood for the screed.
Hi C,I hope the pink and purple are transient states. I have been getting some interesting work and I'm glad to share it with all y'all. Getting a taste of the wirl'd of publishin'Just plastering the outside corners was enough for me...doing entire crowns in plaster would really be something.Have enjoyed your bloomin' hoop thread.Evenin',BC
Let's hope the pink and purple are NOT transient states! I'd prefer to be wow'd repeatedly by your ever-expanding repertoire of innovative approaches. Get crackin' cuz you've got to carry McDesign's load now, too. ;^)
95 Posts in a couple of days.NOW do ya believe that people are interested in this subject ???(-:
So I guess the moral here is "Never throw a used fuel pump from a Russian Rocket Missile into Possum Lake." [Red Green]
Now i hope more gardeners like wrudiger pop in with pics of their gardening-related structures and ideas. I'll take some shots as the garden grows, but it's pretty much done now.Lurkers with greenhouses or rock gardens or terraces or gazebos or...? Post 'em if you've got 'em!
Now cut that out...keep going on like that and the only thing "ever-expanding" is gonna be my head.Actually, gardening helps keep the ego in check. Weeds, insects, and weather can be humiliating. If I built a hoop house, gardening might not do it's job of keeping me down.I planting just a single flat of plants I bought at the farmers market...I'll do well to keep up with those. Planting and weeding are on my itinerary today.Peace,BC
<<I planting just a single flat of plants I bought at the farmers market...>>Heh heh....that's how it starts...then pretty soon you're getting seed catalogs, then you invest in a really comfortable trowel, then you find yourself meeting strangers in cheap motel rooms in the seedy areas of Minneapolis to exchange corms.We'll be here for you. <G>
Guess I might as well post #100 . . .Splintie, that long shot of the completed hoopie with irrigation already in and some of the beds planted is, well, terrific! I do miss seeing your feet in the foreground (it helps the scale), though, as it adds the human touch. I'd like to mention that there's a pretty active community of urban composters out there who buy and use various gadgets to produce compost mostly from kitchen scraps -- some even including designs that process meat and fish. Probably the best in this class is a Swedish product (compostingwarehouse.com) that has insulated compartments. Apparently, the use of a scoop of sawdust with every batch of kitchen waste is needed for the meat to compost OK. A lot of the small-sized composting gadgets are similar to your trash container thing, only made out of recycled heavy plastic. They wouldn't be adequate if there was a lot of waste to handle, though. My son-in-law's next door neighbor keeps him supplied with coffee grounds from her Starbucks store and he ran out of room in the plastic thing pretty fast. I use the concrete block bins for my own composting, but lately there hasn't been enough material to make a pile big enough to really work; there's a kind of critical mass needed at about five to eight feet high for the heat to build up so that weed seeds and certain pathogens are killed, and it takes a fair amount of water in the pile for everything to work right. Your project has inspired a lot of people, I think, and I join with those who would like to see interior progress shots every couple of weeks. Thanks for all the documentation! Jim
I might as well pipe in on EZ compost bins too.
5 pallets, the standard 40x48 work fine, two as a back stop, and three sides so it resembles a capital letter E I start one side with raw stuff ( never meat or grease in mine) and flip it over to the empty side, and toss back and forth as needed.
I just wire the corners together with romex scraps.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Mine's an "E" also, with an extension compartment for stuff that's really tough to compost. I tried using treated wood, but here in the South it doesn't last very long and there's always the issue with bad stuff leaching out into the compost. Your method sounds like a good choice if you've got a good source for pallets.
They last quite awhile, I've had these for 4 yr now, they'll get to be compost themselves eventually.
I'm funny about pallets, always looking for freebies (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Click away from here
Do not click here what ever ya do
Bad things happen to those who click themselves
Every time i have to euthanize an animal, i dig a hole to bury it and plant a tree on top, so that handles my 'meat' waste. <G>I was sifting mushroom compost yesterday to get the fines to cover the smaller seeds i planted: carrots, beets, etc. I was thinking of a barrel with a trap door in the side made of this expanded metal i was using for a sieve, so that as you turned it the fines would fall out. I have to confess that, unlike Notchman, composting isn't my favorite part of gardening. I do it to deal with the little bit of household waste i produce, but you're right, that unless you have enough of it, the pile really doesn't produce much heat. I considered that using a black barrel would help, but even the hard-core DIY in me can't argue against being able to buy a truckload full of mushroom compost, heat-sterilized, just down the road a mile or so. I'd have to drive farther to pick up coffee grounds, lol...yeah, i've been spoiled.Edit: I just looked up the price of those Swedish composting bins: $300 for the small one...not in the splinterbudget, i'm afraid.
Edited 5/18/2008 4:51 pm by splintergroupie
I can tell that truck was made for hauling stuff -- like two tons of compost in a one-ton pickup. Several years ago, not having a source for already-composted chicken doo, I had a guy bring a truckload of the pure UNcomposted stuff and dump it near my garden. That's when I decided life in a space station had certain appeal. People from all around kept their nostrils plugged while scanning the sky for any clue to the source, while I kept a low profile before I was overcome by ammonia and other particularly noxious chicken fumes as I shoveled a casing of dirt all over that smoking pile. The hole left in the ground by that doo-over was bigger than the garden itself. Never again. You got real lucky it was already spent doo. I can tell you're a discriminating doo-gooder!
Edited 5/18/2008 5:10 pm ET by Jimma
Yeah, the steering was a little light... <G>How did the chicken poo work on the garden, though? Thus mushroom compost is reputed to be mainly chicken poo, lime, and straw. The company that this as a by-product of is out of business and the guy who took it off their hands as a waste product isn't very knowledgeable. Thinking of Sphere composting pallets, i've recently read what little is available on the Web about Hugelkultur, which appeals greatly to My Laziness. You mound up a pile of rotting wood, cover it with dirt, plant your stuff, and the wood decomposes gradually enough not to suck all the nitrogen out of the soil. Links: http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/
http://home.att.net/~ekyorigins/Hugelkulture.html (This one shows a comparison of the finished soil with the original red clay in one photo - pretty convincing.)
Edited 5/18/2008 5:23 pm by splintergroupie
If you are lazy, then I've been dead for three years...
There are two kinds of people who never amount to much:those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.
When i was a young'un, i could work all day and dance all night. Now i work a half day and get CPR for three hours.
re: ratio of work to CPR
I am lying on the next gurney over...
Spent Sunday afternoon on yard cleanup, about 3 hours - & fell alseep sitting in a chair, listening to Weekend All Things Considered, & thinking about eating dinner...
I spent several hours today wrassling grass from around the fruit trees and putting mulch mats around them so i can whir around them on my lawn tractor. My brains in "park", but my hands are buzzing...I'm still having a better day than my dog. She got out of the fence and was gone for a couple hours. (I now know where: a place i'd already thought i'd made escape-proof, but she's a tester, that one.) She's extremely subdued now after apparently tangling with another dog or more likely gotten clipped by a car. Sore, a little blood, but she's walking OK and eats. That which doesn't kill us makes us...smarter?Here's to the remarkable recuperative power of sleep!
You know you are getting old when...good sleep rates right up there on the list of life's pleasures...
You know you are getting old when...good sleep rates right up there on the list of life's pleasures...
I've been insomniac since i was dropped, so a good night's sleep is a rare thing indeed. Last night i dreamt that Obama and i were on a hayride....i've got to stop watching Tim Russert (4 a.m. here) before i go to sleep.
You know you are getting old when...good sleep rates right up there on the list of life's pleasures...
How about, kicking the shoes off and lazing in a hammock under a big shade tree on a warm day with a gentle breeze?
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Hot chicken doo is, I now know, a definite no-no. It's quite caustic and actually kills young plants when used without composting. Had I composted it, it would have been OK, but I was only a beginner in this "natural" way of gardening. I have since learned a lot of stuff, but I'm not going to tell you any of it. Nya nya.
Vee haff vayz ov mekkin you talk! I used to have a No Smoking sign in my shop that read:"Anyone caught smoking on the premises will be hung by the thumbs and pummeled into unconsciousness with an organic carrot." Seemed to work...I can't even imagine handling hot, fresh, chickenure....and i'm not that fussy.
Worst job I ever had was hand mucking out fryer barns the day after the birds were shipped off to the processor.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I used to have to muck out stalls and the corral and felt abused, but that seems perfectly civilized now compared to second-hand bird feed.
It wasn't the second hand bird feed that was so bothersome, Oh the ammonia odor was terrible alright but you got used to that. It was the buried full and partial remnants of the deceased former inhabitants in various states of decay and putrification one would uncover with alarming regularity. Best part was that part of the pay was being able to take a 2 1/2 ton truck full of it home at days end and then hand unload the same stuff into the garden .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Sounds positively horrendous on both ends! I hope you were paid pitifully, too, just to make it a peak experience of some sort. Four years ago i hauled 50 Power Wagon loads of manure from a horse stable to this place to till into the so-called lawn area. The old boy who owned the stable loaded me with a tractor, but i had to shovel it off at home. I could do four loads a day, working flat out.I don't think i'd do that now. Green manure grown in place is a lot more sensible. And clean. And fragrant. And i like the color better.
But you have to remember that green manure doesn't do nearly as much to your soil as real manure. Manure adds organic matter, is full of macro nutrients, micro nutrients and all sorts of mircobial activity that does wonders for garden soil. The main thing that green manure adds is some organic matter and a bit of nitrogen (depending on what you are growing). However green manure doesn't bring in nearly as many weed seeds either.
A.
I did get a lot of weeds in the manure i hauled in, but the greater problem is a pesticide called Tordon which kills non-grass plants whose use here is becoming more wide-spread, if anything. I don't know enough about brown v. green in regard to micro-macro nutrients, and the googling i've done seems to suggest there are organic standards prohibiting the use of uncomposted manure within 120 days of harvest, though certainly it can be composted elsewhere. The lack of harmful (to humans) pathogens in green manures is a plus, though. One scientific article abstract i could barely follow suggested green manure makes Phosphorus more available to plants over brown manure. Another cited the fact that animal manures add salts to soil. This article was probably the most alarming, showng antibiotics present in brown manure can be taken up in plant tissue: http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2007/2007-07-12-01.aspIf you have some more information on this, i'd really be interested. I've pretty much been the stick-a-seed-in-the-ground-and-water-it gardener up until now and i have much to learn. Your post, however, spurred me to investigate sources of green manures beyond grown-in-place. One of the happy thoughts i encountered was using wastes from breweries! Our little burg is the site of a new micro-brewery going in on the main street next to a gallery owned by friends of mine. I might be able to schmooze my way into getting the spent hops, grain, etc. And it wouldn't be right to take their compost without having a neighborly beer with the owners, of course...
With manure, (just like food) it pays to know the source. There are hormone/antibiotic free producers out there if it of concern to you. I get all of my garden manure off the home farm and apply it in the fall and plow it in. I figure the freeze/thaw cycles that we go through in the winter should knock back any nasties in the manure. Plus all of the good microbial activity that manure adds to your soil outweighs the negative aspect in my opinion.
Some green manures (buckwheat and mustards) do help release bound phosphorus from the soil, but the phosphorus has to be there in the first place to be released. The only nutrient that green manures add to the soil is nitrogen, and it has to be a legume (peas, clovers, beans) to do that.
Salt build up is only really a concern if you live in a dry enviroment where you don't get a lot of rainfall. Here, fall rains and spring runoff flush salts from the soil.
Brewery waste would be great garden amendment for the same reason it makes good cattle feed. Good source of protein (= nitrogen).
One think to watch when brining in green manures with a lot of biomass (read hay/straw), you can actually tie up a lot of your nutrients while they break down in the soil.
Salt build up is only really a concern if you live in a dry enviroment
About 13" of rainfall here a year, but i irrigate, of course. For the last three years, i've been dumping dilute #### (my own) on the trees, though, and they seem to be doing well....unless a dog girdles one....grrrr.... I also dump it on the compost pile to accelerate the breakdown.
I just called a few microbreweries in the area and yup...the pig farmers have already spoken for their spent grain. I'll have to put a hustle in my bustle to get in on the ground floor with the new, local brewery!
I looked at your profile and see you feature "Veseys Seeds". Interesting website with some unusual items...is that your family business?
Edit: apparently you can say u-r-i-n-e on the forum. Someone at Taunton has a serious anal-retention issue.
Edited 5/20/2008 2:17 pm by splintergroupie
I have to say I am impressed with what your time has been spent on while BT waited for your return.I get lots of different kinds of compost here. I do work for a horse ranch that builds more manure piles than they know what to do with. sawdust/wood shavings with the horse droppings and ####, along with grass clippings from the lawn mowings. So I can have as much as I want to haul home. horse manure has more live seeds from grasses and weeds than most manure does though. Cows have three stomachs and fowl have haigh acid in their gut. Horse manure that is worked over by the chickens for a year is really good though. I plan chickens to add to our homestead for eggs next year.
Then I get 'bark mulch' from when storms bring down trees and the road crews clean up, and my own sawdust and shavings from the millwork we do. We add that to the kitchen debris in the compost pile.I just bought a pallet of a Maine coast compost that is mostly ground lobster shells, seaweed, and ground tree bark. Got it for half price.
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I considered chix for insect control and eggs, too, but the truth is that i've just never been comfortable with feathered things. I collected some pretty feathers from a roadkill pheasant, but the things that grew out of them in that paper sack...eeuuuwww....
I grab all the moldy straw and hay i can get for free and use it for pathways in the garden. When it beats down, i add more. When i was filling beds for this new garden, i found beautiful, black soil in the old pathways which i excavated about four inches down and put in the beds, replacing it with more grass.
The Maine coast compost sounds amazing, but lemme guess...the half price was due to the odor? ;^)
No, they get 7-10 bucks a bag for it at the retail garden outfits.The maker donated a pallet to the school fund raising drive for an auction - class trip. So they deserve a little more free advertising...http://coastofmaine.com/Retail value was supposed to be 325 and I was ready to pay two hundred for it, but the other bidders dropped out at 175
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The Coast of Maine company certainly has the prettiest artwork i've ever seen on bags o' poop!
View Image
That Maine coast compost interests me....but I suppose it wouldn't pay to have it shipped to WA state?! We used to collect seaweed when I was a kid...made the best garden soil. Grandpa used it in his garden without even composting it (after he retired to FL from his potato farm in RI)......made the soil soft and wonderful....
http://coastofmaine.com/soils-quoddy.shtmlApparently no seaweed in this particular mix. They do have several mixes. My one CF bags weigh around forty pounds I would guess.http://coastofmaine.com/distribute.shtmlThey have a web page showing their retail locations, but I don't see it going that far west. Besides, that surely gets outside this whole green revolution trying to use local and slow the oil burn, doesn't it? edit - it looks like they have distributors on the est coast. See one from Berkley and another in CAL
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Edited 5/20/2008 8:09 pm ET by Piffin
They have a fancy website. I couldn't find any seaweed, but the Cobscot blend was crab, lobster, and aspen bark....we have lots of aspen out West.....I just had a few trees milled, and have been using the sawdust on the compost heap and sprinkled on the garden very thinly.
I was mostly interested in the seaweed, knowing how rich it is in minerals. There is a fellow I order seaweed from (for eating), who also sells seaweed for gardens. If used as an additive to compost, it might not figure out all that expensive....shipping is a flat $10. 25#/$60 MaineSeaweedCompany.com He harvests very conscientiously.
There are a couple seafood canneries about ten miles from me; depending on what's being processed, the crab shells and fish guts are free for the taking.A few of the farmers haul the stuff off in dump trucks and spread them on their fields, but that stuff, while effective fertilizer, gets really ripe in a hurry.The responsible users disc it under right away but there are a few who just broadcast it or dump it in piles, then disconnect their phones for a couple of weeks 'till the stench is gone.
Splinty and Bosshog;I think we should lobby the mods to add a gardening/farming folder to BT!
I second the motion. Where else should a forum on Fine Greenhouse Building be, but with Fine Homebuilding?! After all, a greenhouse is actually part of the 'home' we live in. I know Growing Spaces' owners feel the same way.
well, by leaving it on the surface, they are adding seagull poop to the fields, LOLI know what you mean about the ripe smell. When we have lobster on the table, i have to cover the leavings with sawdust right away.This outfit had massive grinders and mixes things regularly according to tested formulas. What I have has almost no smell, is damp, rich and black.
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Smelly seafood I know of.
when in the Smokies, my bud from Eastern shore brought out a few coolers full of crab..still crawlin. We cooked em up and pigged out.
Later I hauled the shells and stuff WAY up on the mountain..he was like why? Bears, I said.
Later yet, we heard a crunching and munchin from up the mountain, hopped in the truck and staying in the pasture, shone the headlights uphill..two of the happiest bear I ever did see..just slopping like hogs in mud..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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there are a few who just broadcast it or dump it in piles, then disconnect their phones for a couple of weeks 'till the stench is gone
I'm still laughing....
13" a year eh? Seems like we've gotten that in the last two weeks. Well maybe not quite that much but when you're inside waiting to get out and get planting it seems like its been raining forever. We have an annual precipitation of around 48"/year
Veseys Seeds is a family business, but not my family. I'm the seed manager here. I look after our vegetable trial program, commercial seed sales to large grower, customer support and about 100 other things this time of year.
I'm not surprised about the brewers grain already being snapped up. One of the best opportunity feeds when you can get it.
A.
noissome animal droppings...
Farmgirl here - pig is worst, followed by chicken, followed by cow. Horse & sheep isn't bad at all, by comparison...
we used to do that in the late 1900s with her mum beds, we would have the utilities tree trimmers drop a load of branches in the field. we covered them with manure and topsoil.... which at the time was sugar sand , and just plop the mums in the holes, a couple years later the mound was nothing but a little hump in the ground with huge perennials all over it.
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Mum's mums....bet they were gorgeous!I kick myself now for cutting up the old rotten poles the old beds were made of. I could have just chucked them in the new beds instead of hauling them out, cutting them up for bonfire wood, and hauling new dirt back in.
they were, and they were free
I got em from a fancy high dollar mall in Illinois when they tossed them out by the thousands in the late Fall. While we lived there I did build an "el" shaped hoop house and planted some white cedar as a windbreak which worked out well about five years later... I really miss that place ! where we are now has too many neighbors or Illinois morons driving around lost we have a woods all around now and the garden is not that easy to manage, too much shade with the only full sun in the north yard. so far she is resistant to planting there although she may change her mind if prices keep going up, but for now we have one raised bed with a pvc frame above it, a cold frame ( I threw some heat trace in there that a friend sent me ) and one humongous compost heap about 16X6 made from locust poles.
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<<they tossed them out by the thousands>>Gor, that sort of thing sickens me. I was at the Walmart plant section and saw a cart full of wilted Easter lilies. I offered to buy all of them for a buck a piece and they wouldn't sell them to me..."They're already out of the 'system'", so they would only throw them away. I asked if i could just have them in that case, but the answer was still no. I thought of just wheeling the cart through the store and out to my truck and liberating them...
the mall re[laed the mums with tulips which where then replaced by annuals in a continuous cyle... the feeding frenzy over the mums was nothing compared to the carnage when they tossed out .. 10,000 tulips... right after they bloomed, it was all about image I guess the rich white folks would be standing in the frosty parking lot like they were in a bread line shivering, waiting for the carts carrying the bulbs to show up and then they would throw themselves at the heap and just toss as many as they could into the Mercedes and Porsches.
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Bread lines for the upper crust....Nice that the tulips didn't just get dumpstered, all the same.
Another great advantage, perhaps the biggest one, to Hugelkulturs is that the nutrients that always leach down into the soil beneath a compost heap, now leach directly into your garden. And instead of carrying debris away from the garden, to a heap, then later carrying the compost back to the garden, it all stays in one place.
Here's my hugelkultur between two rows of squash 'mounds'.(in a low hoop tunnel) They will be SO happy........
I did another, Biodynamic, compost method last year, involving digging an egg shaped hole in the ground, filling it with layers of debris and green manures, etc. A great way also to get rid of debris, and make compost...and the squash immediately volunteered on top of it!
I do similar for my beds, we call it Lasagna Gardening, basically layers of anything organic in between layers of newspaper and cardboard. Works well.
I learned that rototilling and plowing was just reseeding all the weeds, besides being a time waster.
I just now tried something totally off the wall, I planted sweet corn entirely no till. I have a LARGE yard, and with gas getting higher, time less copius, and a perfect area in full sun, I took a narrow spade and every foot plunged in about 4-6'' added a dollop of bone meal ( they had no fish meal or emulsified fish at my farm supply) and 2 corns.
Right in the freshly low mown sod. I did an area about 50'x20' to start and when they are sprouted visably, I will mow the next plot way short, and plant it the same way/size. This in hopes of staggering my harvest so I am not canning maters and peppers while I am finding ways to pick, eat, sell, and can/freeze a lot of corn.
I hope the corn density keeps the weeds down and may palnt some pole beans and let them climb the corn as it gets bigger..we'll see how this pans out.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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These sound like Permaculture and No Till gardening methods. "Lasagna Gardening" sounds more fun. It used to work fine in FL....we had a hollow of rich soil that I'd dig holes in, plant squash seed, then mulch with grass sickled from around each hole. The squash would just take over the whole area. But that was FL, where heatloving squash had an advantage!
There are some direct seeding methods being used, where they drill directly into the green manure crop. I don't dare try that with corn up here...it's barely hot enough long enough to grow corn as it is!
Am curious to hear how it works where you are...
Hi! Curious about your Biodynamic experience. Did it work for you to go to the trouble? Are you still doing it? Where do you get the stuff to make the compost? Jim
I don't feel like I gave it a fair test, to really be able to say how it performed. I think it helped, in soil that needed some help. But have been trying to remember which book I got that formula for compost from....and finally found it. It's not actually labeled as biodynamic, altho it follows the same principles. It was in a book about an Austrian, Victor Schauberger, called Living Water.
Of course, Secrets of the Soil tells how to make biodynamic heaps, and lists a source of the preparations, if that's still up-to-date.
Another really good book along these lines is The Enlivened Rock Powders, by Harvey Lisle. Everytime I open it, I'm reminded of things my garden needs!
Thank you. I've used their compost starter in years past and can attest to their benefit, at least in nutrient-poor Central Florida. But I've lost touch with them since Pfeiffer died. As for the book references, thank you very much. Today I'll check Amazon for them and maybe our library. Have you ever read any of the books by Louis Bromfield on soil building?
I love Louis Bromfield's writings! Pleasant Valley.... He did so much with building up rundown farms, and his whole philosophy must have formed mine. (some people think of land only as in investment and place to build houses..to me it is much more than that, and hopefully won't become houses!) My Mom had a lot of his books, so I read them when I was a teenager. She also had Albrecht's and stuff by Sir Albert Howard (pioneers in organic gardening), and a great book called Weeds, Gardians of the Soil.
I should try those actual Biodynamic starters, but tend to go along with the reasonable rich dark soil I have here.....
""Pleasant Valley"" Now owned by the State of Ohio and open as an educational Park. http://www.malabarfarm.org/ I also read all his books on the place.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Wow!! That is wonderful, that what he 'grew' is being preserved.
I've forgotten the names of the other books about the farm? Got Pleasant Valley again recently just because I remembered liking that one so much. His ideas of what Nature can do have always lurked in the back of my mind......or maybe front!
You will probably enjoy this http://www.bookthink.com/0078/78lb1.htm
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
OK, I'm assuming that the professionally made ones will be expensive, but has anyone checked prices on them?
For instance, this site has a greenhouse picture.
http://www.armbrustertentmaker.com/custom.htm
View Imagejt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I've only gotten catalogs from a couple of the rectangular greenhouses, made with wood and glazing....they were starting at around $1200, maye the tiniest one was $900, but one couldn't grow much in it! Seems they are more for orchids and flower pots. I'd guess the hoop design is so simple to make, there might not be alot of them made commercially (except for the big growers).
I heard back in grade school - or maybe it was later on in high school, that it takes a hundred years for mother nature to build topsoil. I don't think I can believe that. when we reshaped our home lot, we ended up with bare clay and could not afford topsoil. So I seeded with clover and rye grass and sprinkled hay and sawdust about. Used a mulching mower instead of raking the clippings. Now, ten years later, I was just digging up some sod for a trench, and the top inch is nice and dark loam before getting to the clay. I don't think I did all that much to help Mother Nature!and the acreage we own is covered with trees up to 60 YO. Locals tell me that it was all logged off about the late forties and early fifties, and that erosion left darn little topsoil left. Now there is 4-8" of decent stuff out there under all my trees. Even if folks were half wrong, that means still a couple of inches of topsoil growth in half a century...with Momma Nat working all alone.
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They must have meant a hundred years to build a foot of topsoil? Everything that dies down every season builds more soil. There's a little pond on my place: the reeds started growing in it, and each year all that mass would die down, and of course end up rotting underwater and forming more muck in the bottom, til it was getting shallower and shallower. Seems ponds do that, left to themselves, and become marshes. I pulled reeds by hand a couple summers, but finally decided it was beyond me.....everyone was comparing me to a certain old movie. Had a mini-excavator get what he could when out doing my waterlines. It was a toss-up between marshes for frogs, etc, or open water for ducks and geese, so I've got half and half.
The number that I have heard quoted most is 100 years for less than an INCH of top soil. And even that seems generous.
Think of it this way. Since the last ice age 10,000 years ago, if we were getting 1 inch of top soil per 100 years then I should have 8 feet of top soil in my garden. I'm luck if most of my land has 12 inches.
Of course this is going to vary greatly based on a large number of factors. Fertile grasslands, or river deltas will build topsoil much faster than a coniferous forest growing on granite.
Topsoil is a precious thing.
A.
I live on a bench that's a glacial moraine left after Glacial Lake Missoula did its last hurrah 12K years ago. The only topsoil was made out of gravel left here and clay. The topsoil is about a foot or two deep, where i'm lucky, on top of sand and clay, but in the valley a mile away....it goes 30' deep in some places. L
Location, location, location...<G>
Maybe my memory was off but the context was studying about the thirties dust bowl situation in the great plains and how in a lot of places, 18" of topsoil was lost
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I've been thinking of your soil/sand. I grew up in central FL, we had a big garden there. When my family was reading all those gardening books, my brother & I did a test plot of tomatoes: on half was fertilized with rock dusts, the other not. Amazing the difference, & the tomatoes given rock powders were 5-6' tall, with huge Beefsteak tomatoes, wonderful meaty flavor.
We have lived in Maitland on the north edge of Orlando since 1958, but not always in our present house. (Splintie visited us once.) At one time I had a vegetable garden about 35 X 60 feet and experimented with various soil additives and nutrients to create what is lacking in the sandy ground -- which amounts to nearly 100% of what's needed to grow veggies. The biggest improvements, in my experience, came from improving the soil structure with the tilling in of organic matter, almost any kind, like leaves, straw and plant parts. A tiller did that very well a la Bromfield. Next was the addition of nutrient in the form of fertilizers, real compost or manures, and finally mineral supplements either from pulverized granite or commercial stuff. (I'm assuming that's similar to the rock powders you mentioned.) After several seasons, the ground became quite productive. (I always wondered if it was worth the extra effort as my wife came from Iowa where you just put seeds or plants in the ground and expected to have great production.) Unfortunately, along with the improved soil came improved insect populations, so I also experimented with companion planting, "organic" controls and, in desperation, insecticides like Seven. Finally, as if to signal a peak in garden futility, the moles came in to devour the worms that had multiplied in the improved soil and made gardening a very frustrating effort. Now, large oaks , mostly my neighbors', have overgrown the garden and reduced direct sunlight to only a couple of hours per day -- not enough for veggies. Mainly today we raise a few herbs, chilies and tomatoes and most of them are in pots. The citrus trees are still doing OK, but would do a lot better if we just got some rain once in a while like we used to. You would see the difference if you came back . . .
You are the Orchid King, however. Please post a few pics or i'll be forced to 'out' you. ;^)
OK, but just this one time . . .
Lovely orchid!
So do you know the orchid growers, the Chittys?
No, I don't. Do they live in the Orlando area?
Chuluota, used to have a couple big greenhouses of orchids....
I wish I could remember the exact rock powders we used, but am sure it included granite, then probably limerock and rock phosphate.
Seems the only thing that would grow in the peak of summer was black-eyed peas and okra! Tomatoes got all white speckled and gave up.
I know we always got a drought in April/May, but sounds like it's been getting worse, and more and more fires. Folks always said that would happen when they cut down all the trees to plant houses! It's a shame, FL used to be nice country, despite the mosquitoes and rattlers.
49ft! hoowie woman, you don't mess around.
I'd had some old metal conduit hoops from somewhere I number of years back and built one similar in size to your old prototype.
It's interesting how much similarities occur in techniques when whomping out similar projects:ie the use of foam padding to protect the plastic junctions and unique interior support configurations to add strength.
I like your drilled 2x concept with the stakes. Pretty slick. Mine had metal T's on the sill for the ribs so it was easy and just clamped the sill down into two telephone poles laying horizontal as a base foundation to keep the thing from doing a Dorothy in the winds.
Since I had no immediate plans for a greenhouse as instead it was to be a ...uh...shed, I cheated and used osb on the ends and double doors with the thought I would drive in for repairs on the little mazda pickup I had at the time. Ya right. snorK*
To secure the plastic down I'd taken old garden hose and my framing nailer to the ends.Quick and efficient and when it came time for replacement I just covered over the first layer with another and more nailed hose.
Discovered that winter snows kickedazz on the top weight wise and had to build a wall down the middle which quickly became a shelving unit to house salvaged trim.
Even with vents that sucker got way hot in there so I hooked up a sprayer and shot the outside with white paint. Made a world of difference.
Man, with those beds in there you are going to produce max with the veggies. Sounds like time to make a large solar dryer;o)
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Another way of building a hoophouse that might very possibly be hurricane-proof is with cattle panels, those welded-mesh panels 16' long in various heights to contain livestock. The wire is about 1/4" in diameter, but still flexible. A friend of mine in NE WA made hers of that and the rip-stop greenhouse fabric, which is kinda like blue tarp except translucent. On the west side of the Rockies, she gets a lot more snow than i do. Because of the reinforcement both directions in the matrix of the panel, there is NO movement in it.
The drawback is cost - panels are $32 each, last i checked - and the width is severely checked by the 16' length of the panels. I raised the PVC ribs up off the ground in my hoophoues in order to get 13 feet in width with 7' in height. It seems to me my friend's hoophouse was only about 2/3 that width.
Her's has been up five years this year and the fabric is still going strong. That material is about 4x as expensive, however. Although it works out about even in cost, one wouldn't have to mess with replacing it every year. I already had a roll of the visqueen on hand (doesn't every girl?), but after it's gone i'll spend the $160 to buy a greenhouse fabric tarp.
I also have plans to use the old ribs to make a lawnmower/tractor dock. You're saying i'll just fill it full of stuff i got at Lowe's on sale?? ;^)
I don't know if you are familar with FarmTek, but they have a number of different greenhouse films.http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/home
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I've gotten to essentially that same place by going through TekSupply, whose catalogs are a staple of my winter amusement. I used that price to come up with the equation that the visqueen cost per year is comparable to the Klerk's K50, but the K50 would mean i wouldn't have to do the install every year, but rather leave it up four years at a whack.
I'm undecided if there may be an advantage to taking it down yearly to let the beds become frozen and kill more bugs. I was a bit dismayed to see baby grasshopppers had overwintered in the last hoophouse along with the cabbage. :^( I hope they perished when i took the old cover off a month ago.....and it snowed.
Uhmmm, weren't grasshoppers overwintering before there were hothouses?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thanks for the compost links to Notchman; i've bookmarked that as well.
The grasshoppers were hopping in mid-April in the ho[o]phouse when they were still slumbering in the wild. I have to study up the sex life of grasshoppers, but i'm speculating they'd get a head start on that business in the greenhouse, which wouldn't help the forces of Good triumph over Evil. The last thing i need is for grasshoppers to be packin' heat.
I'm growing increasingly eschatological about this grasshopper business.
~splinter, squinty-eyed and armed with a net
""I have to study up the sex life of grasshoppers, but i'm speculating they'd get a head start on that business in the greenhouse, which wouldn't help the forces of Good triumph over Evil."' He!! when was the last time you heard of sex helping good triumph over evil anyway ? That wood be a new one on me. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That wood be a new one on me.
There's a great joke in there about Old Dawgs and New Tricks, but i'm not trying to set any records about getting banned from my own thread, LOL!!!
Here is a great source for products and info on growing organic - on both farm & garden scale. Definately worth getting the catalog.
http://www.groworganic.com/default.html?welcome=T&theses=2793638
Here's their description of the various natural insecticides:
http://www.groworganic.com/greybox.html?pBoxName=insecticides
Fun thread - thanks! Been a couple of decades since I've had a vegie garden. Last year I finally got some terraced beds set up on the hillside (doing the Inca thing with recycled concrete) and are harvesting the last of our winter garden now. Chard so sweet we just have it for desert with a bit of butter <G>.
We're blessed to be in a very moderate climate so can garden year-round - the tomatoes are starting to set and harvested our first baby summer squash yesterday.
One set of terraces, including the table grape trellis:
View Image
Our version of a hoop house in the foreground - bird protection - and the espallier orchard in the background:View Image
Edited 5/16/2008 2:10 am by wrudiger
Edited 5/16/2008 2:11 am by wrudiger
What inspiring photos! I've got climate-envy now.I've always loved the look of old concrete slab made into walls since the first time i saw it used like that. I have a retaining wall in the shade to build for which i haven't figured a plan yet, though i've considered battered block, a rock-garden that steps back, and not i'll throw your concrete terracing into the mix. I've never seen it stacked so high...wouldn't have known it was possible. I ordered the Peaceful Valley catalog and will study the organic remedies. Thanks for the link.I had to get more irrigation stuff at Lowes today and saw the grapes and roses were half-price. I know little about grapes and less about roses, but what the hell, right? I'm going to train the grapes up the metal conduit i'm using to stabilize the front end panels.
"but what the hell, right? "
Exactly my philosophy about gardening. In fact that's just what I said when I saw summer squash at the nursery in the middle of March. Threw a bit of plastic over the bird net hoops to get them through the last few frosts (had 3 really late ones this year) and now they are exploding. Maybe literally - it's f'in hot here right now, just blew all the record temps out the door - 102 today & tomorrow.
I try to keep the concrete to 3' max, with a good slope back, and so far so good. It's been evolving over the last 4 or 5 years whenever the materials and energy come together. No plan, just working my way down the hill. It's just about filled out; I have the materials to complete the last 3 beds on site. Might not get to plant them this year - major drought & water rationing just announced. So no need to get too envious.
The area is about 70' wide; 2 switchbacks to the bottom. Mostly beds but some hillside ornamental plantings as well. Keeps me entertained.
major drought & water rationing just announced.
We've had very little actual precip in the form or rain, though the mountains have plenty of snow to recharge the aquifer, thankfully. Ground is dry as dust....and although foul weather chased me out of the garden three weekends ago with snow, this w/e it's supposed to get close to 90 degrees. Yesterday i saw the first set of shorts sprouting above the pastiest pair of legs...
Every Marine, who looked so impressive when he was young and standing at attention, eventually becomes just another tired veteran sitting on a couple of duffel bags.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
just another tired veteran sitting on a couple of duffel bags
I guess that means the hearing aids have to be turned way up when one plays Reveille?
;^)
If the more organic controls for grasshoppers fail you, you might check around for bait impregnated with carbaryl (i.e. Sevin). Kills 'em dead.
You mentioned your surprise at composting meat and animal products - if you have a big enough pile, you can compost pretty much anything. I hear that Cornell U has a deal going w/ farmers to compost dead animals using big piles of sawdust. Apparently works a treat.
Jason
Thanks for all the photo detales, excellent job.
I see where I went astray on my first hoop job, I thru bolted my PVC to verticle 2x8's ( no beds inside, it was a BIG chicken run).
Gotta stomp out other projects before I can commit to my hooper, like the wood consumer for next yrs heat.
Love it.
Hoopla dee, hoopla da life grows on YEAH!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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went astray on my first hoop job, I thru bolted my PVC to verticle 2x8's
What happened? If its staked down, it seems like it would work....? What am i not seeing?
It used 4 bolts ( 2 ea end) and it was tending to crink the PVC where it would bend sharp at top of the 2x8. The holes were weakening the pipe as it compressed under the washers.
Your pipe in a pipe seems both faster and stronger. I had thought rebar for what you did w/pvc..might still, our ground is rock or clay, little loam on the surface, I had a bobcat scrape what I had, when I moved the beds last yr.
Now, with proper tree removal, I am planning on building the hooper where the first garden was..LOL after I went and stole all the soil.
I'll get around to it sooner I hope, but if not, I'll pull the late peppers and move them in for the last of the harvest..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Do not click here what ever ya do
Bad things happen to those who click themselves
Rebar would work too, but the PVC stakes were plenty strong, if you can get them pounded in. I'm so lucky with this place in that i sit on top of a glacial moraine, yet i'm in a spot that is all sand and topsoil. The house on the other side of the draw from me, which i used to own, sits on clay too hard to shovel and too soft for a pick-axe. Finding a spot to put the septic system for that one was a real head-scratcher.
"I'm undecided if there may be an advantage to taking it down yearly to let the beds become frozen and kill more bugs"
Eliot Coleman speaks of this issue in his Four Season Harvest book..."A permanent greenhouse creates artificial conditions that can result in the build-up of pests, disases, and excess nutrient salt levels in the soil. Old time greenhouse growers sought to solve that problem by periodically removing the top 18" of soil from their greenhouses and replacing it with fresh soil. ..... The simplest solution....is to uncover the greenhouse area for part of the time. The soil benefits from being exposed to the direct effects of the sun, rain, wind, and snow. ..."
From my experience, I'd have to agree, (begrudgingly, since I keep wrapping my tomatoes with more layers of row cover inside the greenhouse, to get those last green tomatoes to turn color....while the plastic is getting frozen to the hoops, and it's time to take it off! Ah, but those home grown tomatoes clear til Christmas!)
This is all quite fascinating to me. I've entertained a similar notion myself, then realised I hardly have the gumption to do things I have to do, let alone this... :)
The drawback is cost - panels are $32 each, last i checked - and the width is severely checked by the 16' length of the panels.
Couldn't ya just use two, run 'em end to end and tie together at the apex with heavy-duty wire or something?
Jason
Edited 5/16/2008 5:47 am ET by JasonQ
Couldn't ya just use two, run 'em end to end and tie together at the apex with heavy-duty wire or something
I have a strong hunch they'd form an A-frame that way instead of forming their parabola. They natually form a more pointy apex than the PVC arches already, is my observation.
Cattle panels come in two gages of wire that i know of and i doubt very much even the thicker version could support its own weight over a 32'-long arch. (the panels come in 16' lengths.)
Still, their rigidity combined with a hoop structure underneath would mean the end panels would have to be as sturdy as mine necessarily have to be.
Don't be discouraged by my mega-project, which is way over-complicated from what it needs to be. My original HH, 12x18, cost less than a hundred dollars in materials and took less that two hours to construct - really! Check out Notchman's...all excess materials that probably cost him the price of the plastic only.
construction plastic - oh, hell, let's call it "visqueen"
Isn't that made out of polyethylene? Don't know about the plastic sheets, but I know PEX (made out of polyethylene) is not supposed to have an extended exposure to direct sunlight. Makes it brittle.
If only I'd known you were building greenhouses, I could have held on to those old single pane windows I had! Next time you drove through you could have picked them up. A few timbers and some old single pane windows and suddenly you've got a 20 year greenhouse!
(but I do like the hoop house)
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I've got my own collection of windows, thanks much! I was thinking of using them and the screens as a ventilated back around sidewalls, but that would never have gotten done in time for this year's crop. <G>
It's true that the PVC can get brittle in sunlight just like PEX can, though my chem knowledge stops right there. Oddly, the hoops in the old house aren't as brittle as i expected. I'm theorizing it's due to the construction plastic having UV inhibitors and having been bent when they were 'young'. They kept their shape when taken down.
When i went searching for the facts on the web on the PVC v. visqueen interaction i found only anecdotal reports, plus my own observation that the plastic was disintegrating faster over the ribs. However, i'm not sure the plastic didn't simply wear more on the ribs due to the wind shifting the old hoophouse so much.
This year should tell whether mechanical or chemical wear is the problem since the hoophouse itself is rock-solid. I also intend to put next year's plastic right over this year's, for even more protection.
you can get plastic for hoophouses that lasts about three years. Try Griffin:
http://www.griffins.com/
They have lots of related stuff as well.
Wow! Now that's a greenhouse on their construction page!
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What a terrific thread!
Pics, humor, and good writing, too!
I'll see if I can find any of the pics of various old hothouse structures I've built. Not one of them looked as good as your new HH, more like your old one.
I'll be interested to hear more about heat levels as your summer really arrives. I'm a little worried that you could still have to much heat on a calm (I know it happens rarely!) day in August, but you could always add a swamp cooler. Sounds like your climate conditions are nearly the same as ours with the exception that we may not get quite as cold in winter.
The hoops them selves: Is that two ten foot sections of 1" pvc (with one bell end cut off)? No 20' sections available to you? Did you glue the sections together, or are they just stuck together?
Maybe I missed this: Is the piece that snaps on the end hoop to hold the plastic sheeting something you bought or something you made?
I've been researching this HH topic (thinking of an actual garden/food/flower business) and your thread has helped bring up more questions. I'd rather consider those questions now than after I've built! < G >
Very cool!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I'll be interested to hear more about heat levels as your summer really arrives.
We had a couple 90-degree days last week. I've never seen the temp inside over 85* as long as both ends were vented - a breeze comes through all the time. Closed up, though...it went off the 120* high end of the thermometer, face down in the straw! I walked in one sunny morning and thought, "This must be like Iraq. Now imagine wearing body armor." I fainted dead away and had to be revived by garden devas with gin and tonics.
hoops themselves: Is that two ten foot sections of 1" pvc (with one bell end cut off)? No 20' sections available to you?
I used electrical conduit bec it's rated better for UV, so ten-foot sections is all i've ever seen...and it was cheaper than PVC at Lowe's. They aren't glued, but i smacked 'em together hard with an end of tubafor. I could have gone to a pump supply place and bought 20' drop pipe...for a lot more money.
the piece that snaps on the end hoop to hold the plastic sheeting something you bought or something you made
It's the next size up, 1-1/4" pipe, split down the middle on the bandsaw (i used a straightedge on the printing on the pipe to line up the cut between two fences), then sent through the thicknesser to take off the rough edge. No harm to the blade, but the shavings stick to everything.
I'd love to see any pics of HHs you built. I found little information when i built the first one, so i'm glad to extend the perimeter of knowledge a little, and i've been so extraordinarily pleased and rewarded by all i'm learning from everyone's involvement in this thread.
Edited 5/21/2008 1:07 am by splintergroupie
Split down the middle? So it is screwed on and not snapped on (as it might be if it were 2/3 of a piece of pipe?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Split down the middle? So it is screwed on and not snapped on (as it might be if it were 2/3 of a piece of pipe?
We tried that on short clamps we made for the old HH. They dug in at the corners into the plastic even when the clamps corners were rounded. The angle of the lengthwise cut edge had to be angled back to center or they wouldn't even slide on; e.g.you can't just plane the top part of the pipe off; they required individual futzing.
(I recently saw at Lowe's a type of saddle clamp made of PVC, threaded on the side for a nipple, that clamps right over the pipe. Easy, if you want to try the idea!)
I'm pretty sure, considering the force required to clamp these on, that a continuous piece would be pretty hard to attach or remove without more brute force than i can muster. The old HH had a single sheet of plastic just pleated around the end panels, but on this new version, less-than-continuous coverage would result in air leakeage between tube plastic and the end-panel plastic. I just rootled around outside and found an old clamp for pix. We ended up instead using spring clamps for a buck each from the dollar store padded with rubber-backed carpet scraps. Not scenic, but it worked.
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Edited 5/21/2008 2:07 pm by splintergroupie
Thanks for the clarification.Do you have an outside garden, too?My gardening has been in town (much easier than out!), but a friend and I are going to plant a corn patch at his house hoping that there will be enough water (from his minimal supply) to mature it.Last year I gardened the entire back yard at our old place, two blocks from where we live now. This year I'm doing a little less over there, but have three new garden areas started at our new place. I hauled in several loads of manure, but with a first year garden here and a second year garden over there I have a long way to go before I get really good soil.Some of last year's garden in pic attachments. The goofy looking snow fence in the air was my attempt at hail protection. Of course, since I erected the stuff, it didn't hail hard enough all summer to hurt anything.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Do you have an outside garden, too?
Yes, here, there, everywhere...i've consolidated a bit this year, though, bringing the berries and grapes inside the fence to keep the dogs out. They loved wallowing in the cool dirt, but it didn't do the berries any good at all. Now i have to make a larger fenced area.
Did you forget the attachments to this post?
I forgot to answer the Q about newspaper ink: it used to be petroleum based, but now the local paper - i think this is pretty standard - uses soy-based ink. I mulched the veggie garden with papers this afternoon. It may be 'green', but it is godawful ugly. Bleah....i'll try shredded when this batch is gone.
Uh, yeah.Another example of why it's so much easier to add things to the list than to take them off the list.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I tried those clamps on a pvc frame I made for my mother several years ago. Didn't work very well. Went back to a piece of wood with screws going into the pvc, which lasted longer than the plastic sheeting.
You and Hasbeen have considerably more challenging climates than here.
I've been very successful with throwing a single sheet of recycled sliding door lite over my raised beds when the tomatoes are finished. Everything growing under the tomatoes enjoyed the extra sun with them gone, late in the year. Winter over with no difficulty, down to 9º. Added a 2x4 frame atop the bed sides to give them some head room.
Arugula have already bolted, cilantro shortly. Need to thin the volunteer tomatoes and get them arranged in cages. Rains twice a week, like it's supposed to. Keeps everybody happy. Tomatoes grow up to the 5' top of the cages, then sprawl.PAHS works. Bury it.
Did you plant the roof garden with an eye to evaporative cooling? I was reading about that in the link i posted to intaglio about roof-gardening in the Bronx with lightweight soils.
I recall in a solar class i took in college (in California) about an experimental house designed with a pool above a concrete roof. The evaporative cooling made it cool enough to wear a sweater inside on the hottest days.
Did you plant the roof garden with an eye to evaporative cooling?
No evaporative cooling (which works much better in arid climates), we need no cooling at all. Our "roof" is 36" thick. Next house will be 12" more. The roof's the only place that gets much sun here. We've got 80' deciduous trees within 15' of the house. Patio stays shady. Always a breeze.
The evaporative cooling made it cool enough to wear a sweater inside on the hottest days.
The point of PAHS is to make a house that doesn't change temp much inside all year, without doing anything. Pick your design temp and tweak the mass design until you get what you want. Totally passive. Maintenance-free. Currently working with a guy near Atlanta who's negotiating with his building dept. over these issues. BI's don't understand, but his head guy actually was moved to read the book. Before me, my head guy routinely told everybody to avoid concrete houses, they were always "wet". Then he asked if he could offer my phone number to those interested. Definitely not rocket science.
There's a guy in Spokane with an alternative (to PAHS) approach that claims his houses are 65º in the summer. Why anyone would want that is beyond me.
I wonder if the soil over your house feels "hollow" to the deer and they avoid it?
Doubt it. Couple hundred tons that doesn't move when you jump on it. Already 220 psf so adding a little more, particularly with soil arching, doesn't make a significant difference.
Learned a little about gardening around deer in a rental some years ago. They'll only jump where they can see a good landing. 4' fence is adequate. I also noticed they didn't like being near the house.
I dislike rural fences, either building or looking at them. Figured I'd give no-fencing a try. Deer we've got, and DW tells me we're going to learn how to turn them into something we savor. No need to leave a patio chair to drop one.
Remains to be seen about the apple trees. Everybody I know fences, or settles for the apples beyond deer-reach. They're planted just beyond my PAHS umbrella, which extends 20' beyond the back wall. Testing house proximity again. Tomato-caged for this year.
Hosta patch starts 3' from the house corner, extends 10' farther, thick. That we have no deer problem astounds everybody. BTW, rooftop this year we'll shortly have 9 blooming yucca (out of maybe 30- spreading like weeds). As the raspberries spread, I'll relocate the yucca. Priorities... Raspberry maze? Gotta train them so you can pick.
Yup, Lola and I are good at relaxing after a busy (or not) day. Occupying a lap currently, resting up from her nocturnal rounds. How she gets chipmunks I have no idea.
Deer leave your hoop house alone? I've known of problems here. They can get pretty pushy. PAHS works. Bury it.
I came up with a way to train raspberries that worked well for us. Sank posts 8' apart in line with the raspberry beds and fastened 16" long 2x4 cleats on the horizontal to the posts at about 2' and 4' off the ground, cleats then had 2x4 joist hangers added at the ends facing toward the next post and set of cleats. Dropped a 2x4 into the hangers when the canes grew up tall enough to be captured between the 2x4's.
Canes were kept growing vertically without any problem and then in the late fall cutting them out and cleaning up was much simpler than when using wires to train them. Simply cut them in place, removed the 2x and take the whole mess off to the compost . Easy to pick from each side and the clean up and training could be done in minutes .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Somewhere over 200 posts ago, I promised Splinty that I would provide some input on composting, one of my favorite aspects of gardening.It's helped me formulate my input by a progression of commentary on composting that, hopefully, I can build on.In 2002, I completed the "Master Gardener" program through the local Extension Service; While the title of "Master Gardener" is probably a little over the top and maybe even pretentious IMO, I would encourage anyone reading this to explore the availability of the program in your area and participate, if possible.The Extension Service, one of those great programs that serve the agrarian basis of much of our nation's history, is nationwide and available in all states and most counties, is a valuable resource for the home gardener.While I've been a gardener all my life, the education I received in that program, while not making me a "master", elevated my gardening knowledge tenfold: the instructors were, for the most part, experts from Oregon State University's agriculture department along with specialists from Commercial nurseries, landscapers, predator control specialists, etc.I would encourage everyone here to check the availability of the program in your area and do it! It's inexpensive and the course work is generally tailored for your specific climate and general growing conditions.In the following posts, I will attempt to pass on some general information pertaining to home garden composting that will help you put real life into your garden soil.
Thanks for the input about the extension service. They are very helpful, but depending on where you are they may mostly be set up to help commercial agriculture that exists in the area. Here they know what to do with cows and calves on dry rangeland, but aren't up on gardening at all.I'll look forward to hearing about your composting. I've read John Jeavons and Stu Campbell's writing on composting and slowly developed various methods for my dry climate. I have a roller type composter, have several long-term heaps, and am now focusing more and more on red wigglers. They are so easy and fast.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
The objective of composting is to add "tilth" to your soil, tilth being the qualities of soil that make it conducive to healthy plant growth.A good soil is one that is a growth medium that is somewhat porous, contains decaying plant matter, aeration for root development, basic fertility that includes not only the three basic growth components of Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P) and Potassium (K), secondary nutrients such as Sulphur (S), Calcium Ca) and Magnesium (mg) and micro-nutrients such as Zinc (Zn), Iron (Fe), Copper (Cu), Manganese (Mn) Boron (B), Molybdenum (Mo) and Chlorine (Cl).Depending on the area of the country in which you live, your soil may be deficient in some of these nutrients and will require some help on your part.I'm in the Pacific Northwest and typical heavy winter rains tend to leach a lot of nutrients from the soil along with creating an naturally occurring acid soil which requires sweetening with something like lime to balance the ph unless propagating native plants like blueberries, rasberries et.al.Composting is a great, long proven method of converting an otherwise hostile soil to one that is a haven for healthy plant growth, with a tilthy nature and full of those nutrient components, no matter where you live.And of course, the motor that makes this all happen with composting is the millions of little critters that break down your compost material and convert it to the nutrient components that plants thrive on.And healthy plants, like healthy humans are more resistant to disease and are more able to withstand the predations of pests than plants that are undernourished and weak.Of course, an invasion of locusts or grasshoppers or voles and gophers can be problematic, but employing an insecticide at the first sign of an aphid or a Japanese beetle is not always necessary with robust plants.
I grew up in a rural area (born 1947) where most people were still employing the survival methods they'd adopted during the Great Depression and WWII. I was 6 years old when we got electricity and the first appliance was a refrigerator.My maternal grandparents lived up the road a 1/4 mile and had raised a family with a greenhouse and several acres of gardens, the produce supplying them and sold as a cash crop in the local town.One of my first jobs was pulling weeds in Grandad's garden and turning compost in a large concrete been that abutted his greenhouse.Any kind of surplus plant material went into that bin, including overstock from the greenhouse, weeds, fruitree prunings and an assortment of farmstead manures from chickens, hogs, rabbits and cattle.It was hard work but I was, from the beginning, amazed at the visible life that existed in that compost bin in the form of worms and an assortment of bugs. And what I later learned was that I was just seeing the tip of the iceberg.Micro-organisms, such as fungi, bacteria, Actinomycetes work in a "hot" pile, creating thermophilic heat which can range from 120 to over 150 degrees to kill weed seeds and most pathogens without killing the mycorrhizae fungi that, in the end help plants take up nurients.In the second stage, the worms, insects and other invertabates move in to complete the decay process.This is why a compost system is best served with three bins: A hot pile for the therophilic action, a second, lower temp pile for final breakdown and then a thrid "finished pile.Tending a compost system requires some work, tossing material and moving it from bin to bin. Depending on your resources, this can be done with pitchforks and shovels or with machinery such as tractors or some other form of bucket loaders.Of course there are some other variations of composting structures that work, but are not always as efficient. Attached are a couple of variations on three bin systems.
While there are ready made composters, I opt for cheap: Sphere mentioned the use of pallets, which are a very common way of building good bins.Ideally, a compost bin should be capable of air flow, which makes the pallets a good choice.Also, scraps of dog fence can be looped together and, when full or the compost in a particular pile is ready to move, lift the wire loop off and transfer it to another.I've also seen bins made of straw bales, moldy hay bales, concrete block, "log-cabined" poles.If you live in an area like I do, it's not a bad idea to cover your bins with wire or a lid to keep the rats and raccoons out.And one can get creative and make a three bin system into a garden feature.One of my brothers once had a compost bin built into his chicken coop: The bin had wire over the top where he'd dump his raw composting materials. The chickens would pick through it and do their droppings and most of it would fall through the wire into the bin.Worked great.
Umm.....can we get larger attachments? Esp the one incorporating the 'yard-art'?(When was the last time someone asked for THAT?!?!)
I'll see what I can do about that....to be honest I robbed the photos off a website in Eugene. I think I told you that their MG program is so large that they have a composting club. So Google "compost bins+Eugene,Or+compost bin photos". There are hundreds to check out.I was a bit disappointed when I saw how tiny they were.....Anything else? I'm finally getting to my promises....you're a hard act to follow.I dug out my MG text to make sure I wasn't risking getting bogged down with too much anecdotal stuff...but my God! My notebook is three inches thick....I'd forgotten 90% of what I had at my fingertips!There's some great stuff on soils...and pruning, and vertebrate pest management and plant disease and diagnostics....I think this thread is going to get much longer! :-)With you as Editor in Chief, I'll contribute as much as I can, though I'll have to really abbreviate a lot of the info.On top of everything else I have going on, my poor MIL broke her pelvis yesterday in a restaurant while Lin was taking my FIL for a routine checkup at the Veteran's clinic. The poor woman broke her left hip April, 2007, her other hip last November and now this. Fortunately, we've got their house pretty handicap friendly but man oh man!
Bin 13 - that's the one I've got. Works great - amazing how quickly the kitchen scraps & such disappear in the hot pile!
I think that bin design is probably as practical as any and it's pretty easy to construct. IMO and experience, it really does a better job than most of the manufactured ones and costs very little.And pallets can be incorporated into that design very easily.I built one like it before I moved here and it did a great job.
While the title of "Master Gardener" is probably a little over the top and maybe even pretentious IMO, I would encourage anyone reading this to explore the availability of the program in your area and participate, if possible.
With all due respect, that program tends to be chemical gardening here. Certainly not composting. I know one "Master" who resigned her commission rather than re-teach things she believed to be inferior/wrong. She's a commercial grower, looks at cost/production.
She, and I, prefer compost/naturally healthy plants. If I get chemical-free potatoes, it's gonna shock a bunch of local folks. Including one who remains a "Master". They don't understand why I'd haul tons of manure.
Two of them (one was a Master, the other I'm unsure) stood on top of a compost pile here without recognizing it. Just a bunch of weeds. They were asking why my tomatoes were so much more robust than theirs. It's the dirt. And no accident.
PAHS works. Bury it.
That's unfortunate because, as far as I'm concerned, more productivity and better soil and better produce is to be gained by building and nurturing healthy soil...especially in a home garden.I can't sit here and cite chapter and verse about the benefits of organic vs. chemical farming on a large scale, but, as I stated, I'm an advocate of working frugally at home and I know it works.One of my most conservative friends is a fellow gardener and is quite passionate about his organic methods, as was my Grandfather....who didn't do it because it was trendy.
Another issue is what should go into a compost pile.There are basically three classifications of common compost raw materials:Energy materials would include grass clippings (avoid clippings from "Weed and Feed" treated lawns which may contain active broadleaf plant herbicides); fruit and vegetable waste; garden trimmings and weeds; and fresh animal manure (I use a mix of chicken, horse, llama and cow manure because it is available.)
Generally speaking, I prefer manure from ruminants because it is more thoroughly digested than that from non-ruminants and usually less weed seed problems.Bulking Agents consist of wood chips and sawdust(avoid redwood, Cedar and walnut), grass hay, wheat straw, corn stalks, etc.Balanced raw materials consist of things like ground up tree and shrub prunings, horse manure and bedding, deciduous leaves and legume hay.Also good for the mix is hair clippings (worms will eat it) though hair from a style shop might be discouraged because of some of the chemical residue that may remain from hair treatments.Dryer lint, if fabric softener is not used.Coffee grounds ( a friend is getting a lot of grounds from one of the local drive-through coffee vendors.....instant "hot pile!")Composting works faster if the material is shredded or chopped up.I lived next door to an old man once who had set up a garbage disposal in his garden and ground up his kitchen trimmings right next to his compost pile...an effective method I plan to set up for myself someday.One advantage to a "hot" pile: It is the most effective way of reducing or eliminating weed seeds and pathogens, such as e-coli which can be introduced with fresh animal manures.A "Cold" pile will develop compost, though more slowly, but the pathogens may survive and while not likely to affect above the ground harvest, may persist and remain a health risk on root crops such as carrots, beets, potatoes, etc.Composting, to me, is one of the best forms of recycling and the only real cost is maybe some back pain....but that's just part of gardening.
The thing that fascinates me deeply about the composting process is that I get to play self-serving God: Where else can a person, with a little effort and very little expense, create an environment that in a very short time, becomes a damp pile of humous that is teeming with many millions of living beneficial creatures per cubic foot, working their little butts off, eating and pooping and breeding which will ultimately make my plants happy and productive so that I can eat and....so forth.
Edited 5/22/2008 1:53 pm by Notchman
For those looking for alternatives to visqueen for hoop houses:I was working on a local lake the other day and the Marina where I stash my boat had put up some wind break material along the covered docks; It was a heavy clear plastic with nylon(?) webbing, UV protected and grommeted like a tarp and in great shape after surviving several winter wind storms.It came from a Marina supply but I haven't been able to find it. I'll try to contact the marina owner to find his source...apparently it is inexpensive.
...teeming with many millions of living beneficial creatures per cubic foot, working their little butts off, eating and pooping and breeding...
OK, i've been thinking about making this confession to God for a very long time now and it seems the moment is ripe, i guess: I don't have worms.
There...i said it and i'm not proud, but i'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a vermiculturist in good standing in the Reformed Church of Compost Scientists.
There have never been worms in this dirt and maybe that has something to do with the sagebrush or knapweed or very sandy soil or no rain or.....? In the whole time of digging the old beds into new beds, which is good plant-growing dirt, i didn't see two dozen wigglers. I see more jackalopes in a day....many more if i don't lay off the Belgian beer.
I'm actually hoping the newspapers will help this bec the only person i know with lots of worms was raising them in old newspapers for sale to fishermen. Do i need to import worms? I'm a little loathe to start playing with the flora and fauna in such a way...might be like rabbits in Australia.
Is my lot 'cast'?
Something I'm going to get into at another time is "worm farms".I have a small three tray unit my Mom left me which serves as both a composter and a source of compost tea...a great foliar treatment as well as a surface fertilizer.You can keep one of these little worm farms in your garage or a shed.I have worms here naturally, but you can buy worms or get some from your friend....they multiply like crazy and it's a good way to compost through the winter when it's too cold outside to manage a larger compost operation in your cold winters.Mom used her in Eastern Oregon where winter temps sometimes got to -40 but her little worm farm did fine in the garage.I will do my best to 'cast' the spell of the joys of 'bottom-of-the-foodchain' husbandry upon you.
Do you keep red wigglers, earthworms, or both?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Both occur naturally here.The night crawlers are commonly found, but when some compostable material hits the ground, the red wiggles just show up.A friend and I were joking about that the other day; he'd ordered some red wigglers through the mail and when they arrived, he started turning some of his compost to give them a place to start, only to find some "wild" ones had already populated his pile and were hard at work.Nice garden layout, BTW!
Edited 5/22/2008 8:11 pm by Notchman
Somehow gardening is one of the most satisfying things life has to offer, no? I started a red wiggler bed about 16 months ago. The results have been incredible. I was told they couldn't overwinter here, but I've already proved that to be incorrect.Used to live in Washington and spent some time in a few Oregon locations: Klamath, Lincoln City (got to see whales play in the surf), Breitenbush Hot Springs (loved this place since I got to hang out and soak for free while DW taught classes!), and Portland suburbs. We even got to see an Orca jump up on rocks and drag down a sea lion while vacationing in Oregon. That was really something. And lighthouses!Wonderful places up there!Ever go to the Oregon Country Fair? An old friend, Ron Hook, has played there in various musical incarnations such as "Unconscious Population" and just solo with a djembe. Ah, good memories!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Yes, gardening is good....358 posts in this small community is testimony to that!Last time I went to the Oregon Country fair was the Summer of 1980. I hadn't met DW yet and my room mate and I had just returned from a backpacking trip in the Wind River Mts. in Wyoming; he was a professional photographer and had been commissioned to do a photo shoot of the fair for a woman who was doing a coffee table book on Country Fairs.We just headed straight to the fair with our mountain gear and since he was "staff" with his photo gig, he got me an overnight pass as a guest, so we camped overnight inside the fair site.Grateful Dead was there. After the fair had closed to the public and it got dark Garcia and gang decided to do an all-nighter in the big, open performance area and they played 'till about 3 AM. What a party!I never attended again, 'cause there was no way it could ever be better!DW and some of her fellow RN's go up every year...in fact it's coming up here the first part of July...I'll stay home, tend the animals and garden....I've never been to Breitenbush, but I've visited numerous hot springs in Oregon....there's a lot of them, but only three or four that are "civilized." One where I have spent a weekend soaking and relaxing is Belknap Springs and Lodge on the upper Mckenzie River....terrific place.
I looked up some worm farms online, but it's as likely i'd spend $200 for a worm farm as for a fancy compost turner. I think i might get some worms, though, and turn them loose in the beds.
The HH is going to prove itself tonight. It was 48* in there an hour ago while it's quite cold and rainy outside. I'm going to keep a close eye on it in case it goes below the 37* predicted tonight. I've got a fire going for the first time in about three weeks.
Sorry about your MIL and good luck to all. My MIL i helped nurse delighted in telling anyone who would listen that she broke three legs. (R, L, R again)
The brand name of the one I got from Mom is "Worm Factory."I just googled it and they're about $65 for the 3 bin unit I have.MIL is doing OK...her break this time was actually her pelvis and it was a non-displacement fracture, so she's confined to bed at home with a good supply of goofy pills. No surgery involved this time, thank our stars and garters!
I checked ebay and the price for a 3-binner Worm Factory (it seems like it ought to be a Worm Ranch out here) is $59 +S/H. The same thing on a frou-frou site was $189 +S/H. The more you pay, the more it's worth? <G>
I think i see the principle, so it should be fairly straightforward to make one, but i think i'll get some woims this fall and just let them have at the refuse pile.
In the meantime, i have mushroom compost. I planted beans on Saturday and today they're 2" tall.
View Image
There...i said it and i'm not proud, but i'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a vermiculturist in good standing in the Reformed Church of Compost Scientists.
LMAO... I'm not casting any stones in your direction. You do understand that Notchman wasn't referring only to worms? Lots of different critters in there.
I started with decomposed rock, zero topsoil, when I buried this place. Not much grew, certainly no worms. Things have changed drastically. Time and veggie matter. Well, we have rain, which helps. But a quick look just below the surface will clearly show where I've done some work and where I've never been.
As the dirt got better worms happened. Where they came from I have no idea.
Vermicomposting sounds like a very good idea there. Never tried it myself. Didn't start composting until just a few years ago, when there was already good plant growth on the roof. Every year I double my compost piles. Potatoes growing in nothing but, on soil cloth laid on the ground. Hope I don't run out of compost.PAHS works. Bury it.
You do understand that Notchman wasn't referring only to worms? Lots of different critters in there.
Yes, but i've been gardening here four three years out of the last four and i'd have thought i would make more progress for all the stuff i've hauled in. Truckloads of spoiled hay and horse poo plus garden waste...it's breaking down....WAY down...but still very few worms. I have overload on ants - hence the perennial aphid issues on the trees - so perhaps there is a connection there. The ants have already invaded the HH, too, in force.
But a quick look just below the surface will clearly show where I've done some work and where I've never been.
Here, too, but still...only very few worms are visiting.
Heyyyyyyy, 'bout a year and a half ago, we installed a roof of the lexan greenhouse stuff over a porch. The shipping crate was too big so they filled the excess space with scrap ( I assume) pcs. I have about 20 at 8' long by 16'' wide and the double wythe ( 3/4") thick..it is bronze tint, not clear.
Gotta come up with a way to use that, mebbe on the ends of my hooper?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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20 at 8' long by 16'' wide and the double wythe ( 3/4") thick
What a score!!!
It sounds like they would fit right over the studs and make wonderful windows with a cover strip, if you think they'll take the racking forces. That's why i braced the heck out of mine, both off the filled planter beds and with triangulation on the perimeter and tying the end panel with the metal conduit between the door frame and a spot 6' back on the outside of the bed.
You could put a ply panel across the inside as i did for anti-racking help to the Lexan, use it to hang tools from. The boxes and panels i used for more bracing doesn't cut down on the light at all as far as the plants are concerned. The tint, though...i dunno. I don't think it's an issue, though. Paint them white on the inside to bounce light/heat back inside if you think they might get too hot or shade too much.
Shredded papers, coffee grounds , a bit of dirt some greens to give the whole thing a boost and water. Worm heaven.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
That on-site garbage disposal is pretty trick. I love stuff like that, though i've never owned one. I wonder if it would chop alfalfa stems...?I have lots of volunteer alfalfa in the yard i've thought of as a weed because the roots are nigh impossible to eradicate once it's started and they're so clumpy. I'm going to start thinking of it as an opportunity to get biomass i don't have to water...~Splinter, trying to look on the bright side on a 40*, rainy day...
In your soil, I'd leave the alfalfa. Those roots go down a long way to bring up nutrients/minerals and open up the soil. If it thrives, you are lucky actually. That little book that talks about such things was Weeds, Guardians of the Soil, by (I think) James Coccaneur (sp?). Another good place to get alot of this sort of info is Acres, USA, a newspaper on agriculture (non-chemical). Weeds will only thrive if the conditions are right for them, and their main job is to break up hard soils, bring up more nutrients, and eventually they die out and other species come in. The time frame is much longer in arid climates like the West, so most people give up and spray their weeds. (but you can spray the weeds for 8 years, and the minute you quit, they come back, so what have you achieved for the Earth? Instead, work on building the nutrition of the soil for 8 years, and see what happens.....)
Now why am I out there chopping weeds out of my garden?! just to give my veggies a headstart, I guess.....but I've learned alot of weeds are also edibles, so sometimes my garden is pretty shaggy!
I agree about the alfalfa roots and, being a legume, it is also nitrogen fixing.Another crop (not legume) that sends down deep roots is corn. While it's a heavy feeder, even if you use the stalks for the local cows or for bulk in your compost, those 6' long roots just work the soil.Some of the green manures also do that, too. Fava beans do well here and are deep-rooted legumes and do a great job of choking out other weeds.Incidently, while they are perennials and probably not germane to your point, grapes have tap roots that typically go down 12' or more.
Edited 5/22/2008 6:13 pm by Notchman
I had no idea corn had deep roots. I always just considered it a heavy feeder and user of space, tho I always grow some. Usually let the stalks stand into winter, to act as a windbreak for the garden during those first Fall frosts....then they eventually get knocked down, and composted on the spot til I need the land again.
I think I had read that alfalfa went down 50', tho that sounds impossible! Have also read that deep roots wick water up again. Everything in Nature has a design, pretty amazing. The depth of grape roots would explain why they are so drought tolerant, once established.
Where I planted my corn with no till , I have scads of Mudbugs, or crayfish, or crawdads whatever they are..they tunnel out and leave mud holes..no, not voles or moles. These are mini lobsters, wierd as all get out. Fairly dry patch not near any water, flowing or standing ponds.
Also think I MAY have planted too deep ( like 3-6 inches, with a narrow spade) and bone meal in the pocket was a not so good idea, the pack dogs, coyotes dug up each hole..I stopped after a few dozen ( adding bone meal) so just maybe, I might still get some corn. I wanted to see these pop up, before I stagger the planting of the rest, to make a staggered harvest.
Peppers/maters going in the raised beds this weekend I hope.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I have scads of Mudbugs, or crayfish, or crawdads whatever they are..they tunnel out and leave mud holes..no, not voles or moles. These are mini lobsters, wierd as all get out.
They sometimes have attitudes too.jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Sounds like you planted your corn in a swamp! I am remembering something like that in the dirt and grass down South, but it's vague and far away from the dry prairies of the West!
Maybe 3" is too deep.....I think I do 2", and my soil is dry alot. If the soil is light and not packed, tho, it can come up thru quite abit. What was that old rule of thumb?....4x the width of the seed?
Thats the thing, it's NOT a swamp, not even mushy.
4X the seed...oooops. I did ferget that lil tidbit. Oh well. Fingers crossed that what didn't get unplanted, will push up.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
more productivity and better soil and better produce is to be gained by building and nurturing healthy soil...especially in a home garden.
If that's what your Master Gardner program is teaching, I commend them. Mine's the opposite. Test the soil. Determine what chemical fertilizer you need to add and see if that helps, until you need a different one. Spray for bugs. Think about getting a pesticide license.
There was a soil list that unfortunately morphed into a very political get-ready-for-the-collapse that I learned a great deal about composting/dirt treatment from when they were dealing with it. Mostly reinforced what I was already doing, but gave me more specific direction.
Often it was the cost/benefit they were examining. Commercial growing was encouraged. My cost is considerably lower than my friends' here. Plants are healthier, more productive. Seems obvious. They're amazed when I invite them to shove a hand into the dirt. Wrist-deep. Haven't tilled (another cost) for several years.
Can you explain rock dust? I've been assuming that adding dirt (that my beds started with) to my compost will replenish anything depleted. Mountain here, decomposed stone for dirt.
Here's part an interesting chart from "Other Homes and Garbage": PAHS works. Bury it.
I have some data on rock dust...I'll get back to you.I have a chart similar to what you posted. One thing that was kind of an epiphany for me was how composted material creates a slow release fertilizing environment, where the chemical fertilizers, while initially higher in in the primary nutrients (N,P,K), are quick to leach out and require more frequent repleni$hment.
That was clever. Only a foot of dirt atop my umbrella, not much post-holding. Your plan's obviously adaptable. Did the canes grow much beyond your upper 2x4s?
Mostly I've been trying to decide where to train the growth. These plants were salvaged from the excavation I did (with the large rocks). Still smallish. Don't want straight rows even if it's more efficient. Do want access. Gotta make a decision soon.
Once spent time with apple and pear trees trained on wires, not exactly espalier but close. Picking was from an interesting trailer. Two rows of prone pickers on each side, upper and lower, who desposited the fruit on a conveyor belt. Tractor driver adjusted speed to the picking rate, or vice versa maybe. Trees were shallow front-to-back and maybe 14' wide, incredibly fast picking. Lots of pruning, winter work.
No similarity to what they do here with inexpensive hispanic labor.PAHS works. Bury it.
My raspberry patch has been here over 60 years, and has no supports. There are 4 'rows' if you look close, but otherwise mostly bushes spaced 2-3' apart. I prune them each Spring, and mulch heavily, then they grow.......picking is challenging, and a friend told me the best ones hung underneath, so crawling works great. Shady and cool in there in summer, too. Cats love it for a summer nap.
They send up shoots quite a distance away, so I'm always digging them out of my garden.
Thanks. My raspberries came from a mountainside, no organization. Only the bear could get far into that tangle. I'm thinking to avoid that. Also have considerable wind here to consider.
5' tomato cages get angle iron tied in a diagonally reinforced grid atop them. Otherwise they blow over. Learned the hard way.
Somewhere in here I'm going to have to face up to a sun space limitation, alleviated only by removing large trees. Not that there's any shortage of them, but it's a committment.
I don't dig in my raised beds, ever. Hope those raspberries won't be a problem. Crawling under raspberry canes doesn't sound attractive, but maybe you've got fewer decades under your belt. Is that where the cat's picking up her ticks?
Frontline doesn't seem to help. She presented me with one of each variety this morning. Climbed off her onto me. Presents/presence I could do without.PAHS works. Bury it.
My raspberry 'rows' are spaced about 4' apart, so really the worst tangle happens later in summer when branches bend out and over, laden with fruit. I can pick walking thru, carefully moving branches aside, but one can't just blunder thru without coming out scarred. I usually get too busy to pick the whole patch often enough to keep them nice, so just pick along my favorite outside edge. There are alot of raspberries there, and one runs out of ways to freeze them (the best is blended with maple syrup, then frozen in little yogurt containers).
Hopefully my bed of berries is so well established that it sends out lots of runners........altho, I bought a yellow raspberry a couple years ago, and already it has new plants in a 2' circle around it. Oh well, if they are delicious, one makes room for them.
Here the ticks are only in Spring, and out in the fields, or woods...got a bunch of them one time picking morels.
Appears I have some interesting experimenting to do with the raspberries. Two types here. A friend gave me something he called wineberries (look like raspberries to me), said they were much superior to raspberries. Certainly not to the raspberries I got from the excavation. Figured I'd decide this year if they stayed or got uprooted.
So far we've eaten them the day they were picked. But this year is going to be considerably more fruit than last. Pretty exciting.
Ticks during morel season? Never had that problem. In fact, until this cat we never saw many ticks. I'd get 2-3/yr from my activities. Figured there weren't many around. Somehow she finds them.
Morels here were more plentiful this spring than ever before in my experience. Even saw craigslist advertising to sell them. PAHS works. Bury it.
I realize you were talking about wild raspberries......so don't know if they will rootshoot and grow so crazily, like cultivated ones. They seem more delicate, at least out here.
I keep going back to the place we found morels that year, but I never see them again...but I know they are hard to see. Perhaps the conditions here have to be just right for both them and ticks!
I realize you were talking about wild raspberries......so don't know if they will rootshoot and grow so crazily, like cultivated ones.
That's unclear. My raspberries came from a mountainside, but no telling the origin. Above that site my client found peach trees that he saved. They bear in Sept. I'm awaiting a volunteer from them. Nice peaches.
Folks have lived all over these hills for a long time, left whatever they were growing when they relocated. When hiking, a periwinkle patch is a sure sign. Probably somebody buried nearby. Peaches, much less common.
Morels here are a very short season. Usually no more than 2 weeks. I've got a prime acre, top of the other peak. This year they showed up a week early, lasted 3 weeks. You are keeping a journal I hope? Or maybe your memory's better than mine.
I have to grab the journal to remember exactly when particular events happen. Or even which year. Perusing it... Morels almost always first appear on April 12. Though I found 1 in 2003 on the 9th. This year they started on the 4th.
Lola loved those outings. Previous cats haven't particularly. They went, and complained. The walk is akin to climbing (and descending) a pair of 10 story buildings. Lot of steps for short legs. PAHS works. Bury it.
Where I grew up in the foothills of the Willamette Valley, there were a lot of native blackberries...usually ripe late June, early July. In the same area interspersed were native raspberry-type plants with black berries. They were called Black Caps and were really good with a very unique flavor. We'd usually browsw on them while we picked blackberries.I've often thought about going back to that area and getting some transplants because they are pretty special as I remember.There are some black raspberry cultivars that I've been tempted to order from local nurseries...maybe this is the year...If I do, I'll be sending more kudos and some dog bones to Splinty for starting this whole discussion!
Edited 5/23/2008 2:18 pm by Notchman
Blackberries are everywhere here. Rarely bother to pick any. Compared to the raspberries... well, they don't.
My (red) raspberries are far better flavor than any I'd encountered here before. I'm tickled pink that they're so happy on my roof. Not even growing where I've done any soil improvements. That wasn't an accident, I noticed they weren't at all picky where I'd disturbed them.
Killed/buried tens of thousands of plants. Felt kinda bad, but I called everybody I knew. One guy came.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I dragged out my journals........found those morels on May 19th, 3 years ago..but this year seems much later with the wierd weather. A neighbor today said the ticks are out, and mentionned a place to look for morels. I'm not particulary good at seeing them, tho. Figered crawling would put me at the right level to see them best, but that's how I found the ticks!
Old homesteads......true, your raspberries could be cultivated ones. Out here the wild ones grow differently, and are overall more delicate. We do have old homesteads thru the hills....I found a nice patch of red currants, and asked the landowner if I could transplant a few.....now have a nice bunch of them in the garden. It was obvious someone cared about their little orchard ages ago......apples, a pear tree, cherry, currants.
Lola reminds me a little of a friend's orange tabby.......he adopted her....he hitched a ride on her truck's springs for 8 miles and several stops before she discovered him.
Journals, plural? Boy, you're a lot better organized than I am. We just run on from year to year, often skipping 6 months. Did I mention I tend toward laziness?
Morels seems to follow the calendar. Unlike everything else here. Trees leaf out differently every year. Thought I was getting a good indicator with fiddle-head ferns, but that panned out too. Only morels, that I've found so far, are really that predictable.
No defunct apple orchard here, so morels grow under tulip poplars, and not most of them. Leaf clutter needs to be moderate. Winter wind's variable here and on the acre I pick, the good spots change with the leaf clutter. Mycelium appears to be widespread.
I've picked with a guy possessing a far keener eye than mine (bad enough the Army rejected me), but practice helps. As does going slowly.
DW called the vet yesterday. Seems everybody's complaining about tick infestations this year. Much worse than usual.
As I built a pretty long-lasting house, I don't expect this'll become a forgotten homestead anytime soon. Sure is a nice legacy though.
Wow, quite a ride. Lola was a drop-off in NC. Friend-of-a-friend with a pair of bengals who didn't take kindly to her. Question of whether they could protect her from the bengals until delivery here (via the mutual friend). They've since visited and were delighted with Lola's new home. This is a really good place to be a cat. Aside from the ticks. PAHS works. Bury it.
I just went looking for morels......couldn't find any...sometimes I wonder if I'm too late, some critter that loves morels (?) may have beat me to it. The leaf litter seems kinda packed down, compared to the year I found them. Oh well. I filled my bag with flowers of narrow-leafed desert-parsley (or nineleaf biscuitroot) instead....dried, they make a great herb to sprinkle on salads.
Once I started writing in my journal, it became a tradition I didn't dare break.......
I've always read and local folklore has it that morels are found where fire was the year before.
I do remember hearing that around the West, too. (Morels after fires)But there was no fire where I found them 3 years ago......
Hey, are you sure Jimma actually carved that sign? Too perfect, maybe he just had a computer spit it out...after all, he does have a Mac ;>)
black raspberries?jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Blackcaps?
I have blackcaps...they are the very best! Not so sour as red raspberries, almost a different entity. Shaped more like a thimbleberry, and the flavor reminds me of mulberries. They propagate from the tips (landing on the ground and rooting, not from sending up suckers. I set a rock on one tip, for a friend asked for one.)
I always cut out all the dead canes of all berries in Spring, and with red raspberries prune out to 4-5 choice canes per 'hill'. Never have pruned out the blackcaps that way, but was a little more vigorous in my pruning this Spring....the tiny canes just make a tangle amongst the large fruit bearing ones.
We did have some growth over the top tier of 2x but when it got too high we just pruned it down a bit. I may have had the upper tier above 4' But I know it was no more than 5' or so . Wife was shorter than I am and any picking that required too much height wasn't going to happen so we kept it under control. They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Edited 5/22/2008 8:48 pm by dovetail97128
I'm expanding my garden this next week, moving the chain link about 20' farther out to include a new 'tater bed. The raspberries were planted against it and it certanly was a PITA to clean out or pick around that fence. I contemplated leaving it as-is or moving the fence while i have the chance before they start leafing out, but your idea is exactly the thing i needed to make my decision.Serendipity...gotta love it. THX!
I'm expanding my garden this next week, moving the chain link about 20' farther out
Neighbors should love that.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Deer don't bother this place at all, but i put that down to the dogs running a tight ship. As you say, deer need a landing place, while the beds and hoophouse took up most of the fenced garden area before, leaving scant room to easily set down. I guess they're like burglars: they'd rather try breaking in where there isn't a sign on the gate saying "This property protected by Smith and Wesson."
Thanks for all the info on roof-gardening. I always like hearing how things that 'never work'...do. I was an early adopter of plastic dimple fabric, PEX tubing...and built a wood basement, against all conventional wisdom. I don't have the proper aspect for a PAHS house - the ground slopes every direction BUT south - but between your project and my friend's stunning Earthship model, it sure makes sense to me to use the earth as shelter.
I might have mentioned this to you before, but the Earthship my friends nearby built has a dirt-filled 'pond' on the downslope of their roof where excess snow or rain water can collect. The water fills the dirt from the bottom and can overflow at a certain level of outlet so the plants don't get water-logged. The effect is that there are no weeds because the top of the soil is too dry to generate and sustain them until they get to the predetermined 'water table'. The wife of this couple is an herbalist and grows most of her medicinals in this ~20' diameter pond/planter. It wouldn't function as well in a place that gets frequent rain, but it's such a perfect response to our environment here.
Here's a 'green' roof, Montana-style:
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And to dispel the notion that earth-sheltered houses are dark and dungeony:
View Image
Edited 5/22/2008 1:26 pm by splintergroupie
Here's a source, TekSupply, that was mentioned earlier. I really like dealing with them, too; very pleased with my past purchases, mostly electrical supplies i got much cheaper than locally. They have a large variety of styles to suit anyone from the weekend green-thumber to boutique greenhouse to hard-core agricultural users. Oftimes they have outstanding values on clearance items, so be sure to check that out. http://www.teksupply.com/farm/supplies/cat1;ts1_greenhouses_accessories;ts1_professional_greenhouses.html
the Earthship my friends nearby built has a dirt-filled 'pond' ...
Love it. Hadn't heard of that before. Earthships work just fine, incredibly labor-intensive to build. Unfortunately, the 2 here (not exactly earthships, but close) both had severe structural problems. Both designed by the same people, but entirely different problems. That company didn't last long. Helps if you understand a little about construction when you're designing houses.
Southern slopes/exposure aren't necessary for PAHS. The whole concept is built around annual heat storage, or "coolth" if that's the need. Unlike earthships, PAHS doesn't depend on direct solar gain. Often a factor, but isn't required. Also has no "typical" look, can resemble about anything. Mine's a warehouse. Cloud's got a dome coming in Kansas.
Our next place faces west, to sunsets over the BlueRidge. It'll also work better than this one, unrelated to orientation.
We've finished our direct solar gain until well into the next heating season, but the mass will slowly climb in temp until then (~1½º/mo). Otherwise, we'd be cold as we're still cruising at 67-68º. It's a very slow process.
Nice photos, thanks. Our outdoors looks much like their sunspace except we're still at the tail-end of spring green. Does that orchard get sprayed like they do here? Frighteningly close. Operators here have full tyvek protection and serious respirators. Not a job I'd take.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Does that orchard get sprayed like they do here?
I'd really doubt it. David and Noemi are pretty serious about health (she's a nurse and he's the orchardist) and intent on self-sufficiency so i'd bet he's strcitly organic. That house is off the grid, too, though the orchard has grid electric to run the irrigation pump. 20 acres of apples and all his harvest is sold before he even picks it. David's compost bins are things of beauty and his outdoor gardens are marvels.I venture they'd get the Notchman seal of approval. <G>
They first built a smaller structure as a guest cabin/solar greenhouse before starting the larger place, so they worked out the kinks living there the first year; they refined the vent issues at the top of the roof, as i recall. I first met them right before Christmas '05 and went back in the daylight to take pictures in January, when the completely unheated greenhouse was still making tomatoes. They had cabbage starts the size of the ones i just put into the HH growing in container-beds.
I obviously have some mistaken ideas about earth-sheltered houses necessarily needing to face south. Is the PAHS house suited only to warm climates? It seems to me we'd have to have supplemental heat here if not facing the sun a good part of the year.
Not remotely hooping, but...
Is the PAHS house suited only to warm climates? It seems to me we'd have to have supplemental heat here if not facing the sun a good part of the year.
The original PAHS was near Missoula, 8125 heating degree-days. Small glazing. Performing better than mine, only got an annual 7º temp swing. 65º was the coldest it got inside there. Ours too, for that matter. I cheated greatly on the design, suffered thermal performance for it (13º annual swing). Will do it again in our next house, but I'll significantly increase the mass to make up for orientation.
If you want warmer, you add a little heat of course. We occasionally fire the woodstove on particularly cold evenings. A stove's cozy, so long as it's not a chore. Putting on a sweater is an alternative. We're over-glazed and can't be bothered with window coverings (which would better us 3º).
These are quite different from simply passive solar with relatively low mass. PAHS insulated mass ideally extends 20' out from the perimeter of the house.
I've outlined PAHS basics for both heating-only and cooling-only climates. Unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to see how they actually perform in really extreme conditions. Though 8125 heating degree-days ain't exactly balmy, Missoula also has 280 cooling degree-days (base 65º).
Lower mass houses (including earthships) rely on frequent heat infusions, making orientation important. PAHS' annual storage allows lots of ways to configure. Including ours, which does get significant winter direct gain. Makes the 14' tall tree in here happy. No idea what it is, outgrew a friends' ceiling height.
Adding plants by our large southern glass would make this place look like a winter greenhouse. We don't. I sprout a few tomatoes as I'm never sure exactly what volunteers will show up later. One favorite (jellybean) is a hybrid. Mostly we just bring in the patio container plants.
Not trying to be a drum major here. Extremely low mass houses can be just as comfortable. Know a guy who stays toasty in Vermont with a house that weighs about as much as an SUV, with a tiny heat input. Whole thing's 1/4" plywood, spherical. Apparently well-anchored.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I did a little googling last night and saw that Missoula's Geodome - i used to live within site of it when i moved back in 1983 - is a PAHS design. It was pretty big doin's at the time, but i'd veered off into woodworking by then and didn't follow the story very closely. It seems the salient feature is insulated storage of heat compared to uninsulated (wet ground) storage.
If anyone else is interested in the layman's tour: http://www.earthshelters.com/Const_start.html
Of course, those pics don't make it look all that builder-friendly, but as a concept house...
This may actually have some application to the HH. I was thinking of the shallow frost-protected foundation and wondering if anyone has ever though to apply the principle to a greenhouse, i.e. protect the perimeter from heat loss. Of course, the loss to the atmosphere is a much larger concern, but if insulated glazing like Sphere's were used....hmmnmm....
Yup. There is a lot of similarity to shallow frost-protected, but moreso. No reason your plan wouldn't work.
You're looking to balance heat loss with gain + stored heat. Pretty simple equation if you look at the parts. Often folks assume I have a very energy efficient house. Not particularly.
Takes a substantial amount of heat (we're 4166 heating degree-days), but we don't pay for it. Or do anything to acquire it. The major part of it's the heat stored by keeping us cool all summer. Not unlike what a greenhouse could use, eh?
An excellent supplemental greenhouse heat source would be high-temp compost. Remember the guy in Nebraska who was growing citrus?
I much prefer low-temp composting for several reasons, but if you have a use for the heat...
As an aside, kind of a long haul for you, but I've got a substantial stash of Kalwall water tubes if anybody's interested. 12" d. x 8' tall, used to add thermal mass, often for greenhouses. These were removed from some townhomes. I've never figured out quite what (else) to do with them.
Hmmm... Rez said he wasn't going to take me up on those translucent panels. Wonder how they'd be for a greenhouse. 5'x8' (and smaller), weigh very little, and spanned 8' with our required 50 psf live load. Mine are somewhat structurally compromised so I've only been spanning 4'. They make a glowing roof from the inside, even on an overcast day. PAHS works. Bury it.
Send them panels over the ridge to me! Seriously, wonder what shipping would be? you figure you are about 400 miles?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I keep telling you that you want that giant wood-fired boiler. Or a rock. LMAO
Panels were $1/ft² Still interested? Probably 1500 ft² available. Your buddy John H. could haul a pile, they're light. Not clear that he'd be comfortable coming here though.
No idea about freight. Probably need to be palletized, strapped.
Road trip? Sounds like you've got nothing else to do... PAHS works. Bury it.
No road trip, no time.
lemme think on it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
I much prefer low-temp composting for several reasons
Would you elaborate?
A friend of mine used those clear tubes filled with water in front of south window as as a flywheel in his two-story house. They take up a fair amount of real estate inside the house but at least don't offer the sheer idiocy of a Trombe wall heating a window at night and blocking the view/light by day.
While i see your point about burying the house in insulated ground, i noted on the Rocky Mtn website that they showed a lot of PVC buried in the ground for pre-heating/cooling ventilation air. If one is going to the expense of ground-source heating, with a little nudge you get to ground-source heat pumps and a super-insulated house above ground.
It seems to me that you do all the really heavy work and expensive earth-moving up-front with a PAHS house, instead of piecemeal as you live in it by splitting a bit of wood or buying a little heat. Fair? But you lose the 360 views. That may be OK in some circumstances, but one of my indulgences is light coming from two directions in every room. I'm not dissing your method at all, understand. Extracting heat from (and storing it in) the ground and the sun makes so very much sense, but i'd give up the ultimate-passivity of it for more view options. While my experience of the Earthship was entirely pleasant, their bedroom at the rear of the dome had a view of the wall behind the composting toilet.
I guess you get used to things and if you are heartily committed to a principle you accept the tradeoffs, much as i do with animal rights and the lack of tiger prawns in my diet.
Those panels are such a steal, i don't know why anyone within a day's drive wouldn't just jump at it. I'd buy them all, but palletizing and shipping to MT would take the advantage away. Sphere's a knucklehead if he doesn't take a road trip over there.
Low-temp composting:
For composting, I simply pile on layers, let it sit. Between raised beds (no point in moving it any farther than necessary) until I run out of room. When it rains it gets moisture. It's slow, but I do absolutely nothing, no cages or pallets or concrete. There's evidence that the product loses less in the process (compared to high-temp), but that's not a primary concern to me. Kinda like losing nitrogen by leaving manure sitting. Just use more. And eases my fears about whatever might be left from herbicide or equine worming.
Seeds don't get killed. High-temp fans find that a problem. I prefer it. Now, when I spread compost, like over a new bulb bed here, I got arugula, cilantro, and several lettuces sprouting. We find it delightful. As far as less desirable plants (weeds) go, I never mind them 'cause they're about all I have to compost. As I'm not leaving weeds to go to seed here, about the only seeds in my compost are from plants I wanted.
My finished compost piles were covered with cilantro. Some got moved, the rest went onto a new compost pile. Y'all are tilling. I don't, just broadcast compost and let the bugs work. Tilth is excellent, and I didn't start with good topsoil.
Subterranean growth(s) discussion, I'll defer.
"Planting" for me is hanging the (ready-to-drop-seeds) plants upside down from my tomato cages. I've used stakes, much prefer my welded wire cages, 3' d x 5'. Tomatoes go up 5' and then sprawl. Dropped seeds go everywhere, including my compost piles. When they're ready, they sprout. I thin as necessary for promoting whatever crop I'm trying to get more of.
My tomato beds are where everything small-leaved gets grown. Shade from the tomatoes helps the greens when it gets hot. Snow peas share the cages, from the north side of the bed. Looks like a mess, produces nicely. No bug problems. Requires next to nothing from me.
Next post will address the PAHS questions so anybody disinterested can ignore them. I approach gardening much as I do housing. Let it take care of me, not the other way around.PAHS works. Bury it.
<"Looks like a mess, produces nicely">
Friends often complain they don't know where to walk in my garden. I love all those volunteers from things I let go to seed. My potato patch has lettuce and orach growing on it right now......when I plant the potatoes, I'll leave alot of greens for my salads, then leave the best of them to go to seed. Get some wonderful lettuce crosses that way, and Spring lettuce is so easy, never have to plant seed.
I think one of the secrets to your soft soil is the beds. Wherever I tiptoe into a row/bed, the soil gets packed (& I'm light)..then I get weeds with long taproots coming in. One, a mallow, is real hard to pull up...but I decided to try eating the little seed 'pods', since it's in the same family as okra. Was good, but too tiny, so next I looked at the hollyhocks...another mallow, and made larger seedpods. Old English cottage flower gardens included such edible flowers. There are so many edible weeds, my paths tend to become another growing area. Quite a mess. Starts out neat right now, in a month will be a mess, but like you said, productive.
I've been thinking about the boxes you put a glass panel over for tomatoes. Is there any problem with the box holding in frost? I'm thinking it would help moderate the climate, block some wind...but wonder if it might also create frost pockets. My garden has a slope, so most frost can drain across it. I plant things as windbreaks for that cold drainage air, but usually don't block it on the other side. Have so many baby tomatoes/peppers this year, I need to try lots of different ways of protecting them.
I've been thinking about the boxes you put a glass panel over for tomatoes. Is there any problem with the box holding in frost?
As Splintie pointed out, my climate's not particularly challenging. No accident, we considered relocation very carefully, land-shopped Bellview to Monterey and parts of Idaho, Arizona, and New Mexico.
Holding frost never occurred to me. Hasn't happened to my knowledge. But my airspace is quite small compared to mass under it. I do get frost on the underside of the glass, never seems to bother the greens.
My garden has a slope, so most frost can drain across it.
You lost me about frost drainage. Is that cold air sinking we're talking about, or something else? My garden also slopes, kind of necessary as it's also my roof. But when it's 9º up there, sinking cold(er) air won't be replaced with anything very warm.
Splintie, I think, mentioned Eliot Coleman. I picked up a used copy on ebay, well worth the price. "Four-Season Harvest" makes it very simple.
The glass goes on after I've removed my tomato plants. Major wind on this mountain, sideless would defeat the glass benefit. Volunteers don't show up until after I've stored the glass for the summer. 3-8" tall tomatoes now. Another month or so and they'll catch up to the few started indoors.
I'm sure you're correct about my beds/tilth. I've read a bit about subterranean activities. Generally happiest if nourished and left undisturbed. I'm real good at leaving things undisturbed. <G>
First potato year for me, didn't really have much idea what to expect. As they're growing in my low-temp compost, they've got companion arugula already. Which the U of New Mexico says is a green manure, but I haven't that seen confirmed anywhere.
Good to hear of somebody else who appreciates volunteers as much as I do. Why buy seeds? Or bother to plant them? Cost/benefit again. But I'll probably never be invited to be on the annual garden tour.
Which generally is large estates with multiple professional gardeners... Pretty sure I'll never be a Master Gardener either. Oh, well. Our lunch guests yesterday were duly impressed with the spread.PAHS works. Bury it.
Hi Tom! When you've digested Coleman's "Four Season" book, you'd probably find his "New Organic Grower" to be interesting as well.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Sorting early onions by the big ditch. My archaeologist daughter is treating them as if they're artifacts. Soon the ditch expands to other chambers and gets the big filter installed. Stay tuned . . .
onions...
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Edited 5/26/2008 1:53 am by splintergroupie
Coleman's interesting. I'll bear that in mind. Generally skeptical about gardening advice unless I know exactly the source. Kinda like this thread, with diverse suggestions for success.
Certainly I'm at odds with the local Master Gardener program. I'm doing better, cheaper. Which is one of the things I admire about Coleman's advice. And the guy who got me headed in that direction.
We were whooping it up, afternoon birthday party. Guests in from 4 states. Lovely restaurant-catered fare, live music. Lead singer lives near me, known him for years. I'd taught him safe chainsaw use and tree felling, after he almost killed himself. Didn't know he was in a band. Buncha old farts doing old rock. It was great.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I tend to think weeds are better for the compost heap and the garden in general, than manure. My family found manure led to insect problems (maybe the nitrogen ration, might be ok it used sparingly?) I'm starting to use some manure in my compost this year, haven't used any in years and years....hope it's just what the soil wants. I've read research that insects are able to detect diseased plants long distances away, and zero in on them.
Are you sheet composting your manure in the paths then? Or do you leave it in a heap for awhile before throwing it in the paths?
Climate does make such a difference.....things broke down so fast in FL, up here a pile of garden rubble will last 5 years......and lumber lasts forever, too!
The frost drainage is about cold air sinking, yes. It's important in orchards of fruit trees, good to have some drainage so the frost won't collect and pocket (when they say that, they really mean the 'cold air' instead of 'frost', since frost is only what we see as a result of cold air....). So one gardening book, might have been Eliot Coleman, cautions against creating frost pockets. So I wondered about putting up a box as opposed to putting up a fence/side to break the cold air. kinda like microclimates within a garden.
The best thing about allowing plants to set seed, and broadcast it is that you get plants that are acclimatized to your garden and weather. I keep leaving the kale crosses that survive the winters, and they keep making more which survive....even collards are surviving....sometimes I have kale/cabbage/??? crosses....all quite edible.
Always sorta laugh to myself when I hear someone referred to as a Master Gardener......just what does that mean? He took a course? Or he's been gardening for 100 years?
I tend to think weeds are better for the compost heap and the garden in general, than manure.
Appears you have far more composting experience than I do. Manure's never been a problem here, but I'm using aged manure. I'm doing maybe 20% by volume. A layer at a time, however much happens to pile on the pile.
Yours would break down considerably faster with manure? Certainly true for leaves here.
Probably ought to reread that chapter in "Other Homes and Garbage". Likely room for improvement in what I'm doing, though the finished product sure makes the plants happy. Takes several months to complete. But requires nothing from me, once I've piled up the layers.
I keep removing hostas from my lush periwinkle patch, don't want it over-run. The hostas (and periwinkle) have spread like a weed since I started feeding them compost. Thick, Lola totally disappears in there in pusuing a critter. Just a rustling of the leaves.
Sheet composting in the "paths" is correct. Aisles really, I planned 5 1/2' between beds for tractor access. Which I don't use, but the space is great for composting. And then the compost seeds sprout, providing lots of plants to give away, compost, or transplant when I want to spread the compost.
I'm with you on weed composting, works great. Tried some grass from a neighbor awhile back. Won't do that again. My compost is far superior to the straight manure I used to add. And contains a small fraction of the manure I once used.
Do you understand rock dust? I've been assuming that adding the same dirt the beds started with, to the compost, would replenish whatever minerals the plants depleted, but have no verification.
BTW, Notchman thinks highly of his MG program. Apparently very different from here, which is chemical gardening. I was encouraged to hear they aren't all the same. And even chemical gardening strikes me as much better than none. Always the opportunity to change one's method. Not that I've been able to convince my 96 yo mother.
Here's a sphere in the works, 1/4" plywood. He's built several. A favorite quote: "Walls are the easy part, pile up pretty much anything. It's the roof that gets interesting." His certainly are http://www.sover.net/~triorbtl/cottage_1.htm .PAHS works. Bury it.
Plywood-Sphere Guy...i'm glad such people exist.
Sure got my mind spinning. when I built the scale model of the Spheramid, I was tinking concentric rings for the sphere, or mercater like ribs..totally skinned hadn't crossed my mind.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
He seemed to be on the experiential side of things instead of the engineering and he sure asked a lot of 1/4" plywood. His naivte in construction shows, though, esp the aluminum foil sphere he made. ...attaching those ribs with Liquid Nails???...and he burned through a lot of ply that ended up as scrap. Still...building a balloon...that's some kind of wonderful....reminds me of the Lawn-Chair Pilot.
I found my home testing kit for soils. I tested the normal garden soil in one batch and the vaunted mushroom compost in another.
This is the kit i used. IIRC it was less than $5.
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Here are the results of the pH test only. The sample on the left is my normal garden dirt. It's actually been improved over the years with manure and compost, but the very high alkaline level is very apparent next to the lighter green neutral pH of the mushroom compost test on the right.
This was tested by putting some soil in the tube, adding the pH-testing capsule and shaking it up, then letting it settle and develop the color for several minutes.
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Edited 5/26/2008 6:31 pm by splintergroupie
Sheeze, you hoop thread has more activity than the entire "Over the Fence" forum!jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Those peeps know a lot more about plants, but we BTrs have this BS thing down!
It's been raining for hours, but it's not terribly cold here. I set out a bunch of flowers recently so this will actually be a good transition for them. I have several flats of flowers still left in the greenhouse so before they give up the ghost i'm going to dump a load of mushroom compost on top of the compost heap and plant the posies in it per maddog's suggestion in the "Hugelkultur" phase of this thread.
Apropos Tom's buried house and this thread, i've been reading about pit greenhouses, which are sunk into the ground about 4 feet, moderating their warmth needs...and in our case, a respite from wind concerns.
Keep your head down!
It's been raining for hours, but it's not terribly cold here.
Been a very wet spring here. Not sure what the yearly total is though. Monday night we got 3+inches. Tuesday morning was 2+. Then started coming down again Tues evening until probably 1 or 2AM (or later). Might rain again this evening.
Last Friday we had a tornado touch down couple miles west of town. Sirens were going off like crazy that night. Several funnel clouds. Lots of strange clouds blasting through. Few weeks ago we were getting earthquakes. gotta love the midwest.
Apropos Tom's buried house and this thread, i've been reading about pit greenhouses, which are sunk into the ground about 4 feet, moderating their warmth needs...and in our case, a respite from wind concerns.
Seems like you could incorporate some earth sheltering with your super-greenhouse. Moderates the temp, protects from bad weather...
If I had the $$, I'd like to make a PAHS building for stuff and a workshop, etc.
it's not terribly cold here
I think its supposed to be 98 at the end of the week. That is what I define as terribly hot. I'd never survive in TX.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
<<Seems like you could incorporate some earth sheltering with your super-greenhouse.>>I have a walk-out basement shop, that 'walks-out' on the opposite side of the house from the yard/garden. If i need something out of the shop for the yard, i have to walk clear through the house or around it. I'm thinking i could bury an attached pit greenhouse to the wall facing the fenced yard/garden area and punch a hole through the foundation into it. It would help heat the shop and provided easier access between shop and garden. I've already got too much to do so i'm trying to resist the urge. <G>
My squash are really growing in the quickie pvc tunnel with floating row cover....and the hugelkultur inside (wonder if it's adding to the heat?). Think I'll get some lighter weight row cover, and leave it on til we hit 90 degrees! This year it sure has paid to have lots of covers on everything. Even lettuce under row cover is twice as tall as uncovered lettuce.
I heard a storm touched down at a big art show back in the MidWest this past weekend, taking a photographer's booth into the air (total loss). Wild weather!
A pit greenhouse sounds good......
I'd like to find some 4x8 corrugated PVC for temp tunnels for places like my potato patch, which is sulking in the rain. So far i've only seen 2x8 sheets, but i'd rather not have to join them. I made wire hoops and used row cover one year, but what a hassle that was; i dug oodles of dropped clothespins out of the beds a month ago. The FG panels could be stored flat when not being use and they'd last a lot longer.
Two jobs today are to finish the purlins/trellis to support the 'maters and squash, and to build my sod-Hugel for all the flowers i have no place for. I've been lazy...reading while it rained...
Some shots i just took inside the HH:
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bean leaf the size of my palm - never seen anything like this before in my gardens:
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female winter squash blossom, maybe a month ahead of schedule:
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Edited 6/5/2008 2:18 pm by splintergroupie
Amazing squash already! Buttercup or Hubbard?
I found the corrugated clear plastic more of a hassle, and still have a top I made with it. It does chip on the edges, and is more work to move around than just rolling up row cover. Clipping row cover on and off is easy with the special clips sold for that (to fit different size pvc). The lighter weights of it allow the wind to go thru somewhat, yet keep plants moister and warmer. Was about the fastest 'greenhouse'/tunnel I put up: just push holes in the dirt, insert the pvc, and continue. Since I've switched from solid plastic to partial plastic /heavyweight row cover, the wind has not bothered it. The versatility is really handy.
After i second-thought about it, i figured i'd have to close the ends or it would fly, which then means it could then overheat. Maybe i'll just take my extra hoops from the old house and make a temp green house for the whole tater patch with the last year's plastic....get the very last good out of it. It's pouring again. I'm wondering at this rate if the potatoes will rot instead of sprout! Damn...didn't get the BlumenHugel done either bec of the rain. I think that squash is a Buttercup, but it might be a Lakota; i didn't plant Hubbards. I had all the labeled, styro cups the starts came out of placed near their respective squashes, but the wind through the HH screen doors blew them all about.
Raining, raining, raining here, too. I was wondering about potatoes....but have never had any rot, and we've had this wet stuff before each year. Altho, this year the grass is so tall I'm wading thru it, and can't get out to mow yet. If your potatoes were in clay soil, they might get too wet....?
Good luck with Blumen Hugel.....he'll do great in all this rain!!!
Rain won't hurt your potatoes. Your climate and soil should be good for them where you are.Friend of mine grew them like crazy in the hills out of Sandpoint, ID., and they grow them right up to the west front of the Tetons.And I grow them right here in "Rainland" so just keep piling that mushroom compost on them and you'll be fine.
One of the benefits of top-dressing with the heat-treated mushroom compost is NO WEEDS! Where i mixed it into the soil i have very happy weeds as well as wanted seedlings, but in the areas where i spread it on top, like the strawberries, there are almost none.
Still going out looking for spud sprouts on the hour. Hell, it's been almost a week; where ARE they?!?!?!?
Guess that's why I started making actual compost heaps this year, with manure added, to heat up all that woody stuff and break it down! Nettles are really good for the compost heap, or for nettle tea for the garden....comfrey, too.
I like your idea of wide aisles between beds. Then one can have the 'wild' garden, and the more controlled one above/next to it!
Rock powders.....I'm not sure about understanding them.....of if anyone could be said to understand them fully. It's alot deeper than just adding different elements......all the different ones affect the availability of the other elements...and then there are the diamagnetic and paramagnetic forces. Gets pretty deep, so no, I don't follow it all, have to read about it again to refresh my memory. I think the pioneers of the organic movement, like Albrecht, understood it....and they often quoted Rudolf Steiner (Biodynamic). Knowing all this, I think it's important to add them, not that I remember to often enough. I'm sure it affects the nutrition of the food we eat, and that to me is the real reason to grow your own.
One thing that impressed me about the West, the prevalence of organic gardening as a more 'accepted' way. I'm sure I'd learn alot if I took a Master Gardening course.....but the title bugs me. Seems a Master should be from experience....the word brings to mind names like Rembrandt and Da Vinci.
A great little catalog with lots of tips on potatoes is Ronnigers (Ronnigers.com). They have great varieties, too.
Oh, the spheres.......they are like flying saucers! Very cute, and I recall Splintie sent me a link to them some years ago. One thing I noted, was their reference to the air in a circular space heating well.....
I like your idea of wide aisles between beds. Then one can have the 'wild' garden, and the more controlled one above/next to it!
The difference really is only elevation. Well, the beds have more variety. Compost tends toward mono-crop. Pix below show why guests often don't recognize my compost piles. Picture-perfect, they ain't. The pile with the bolting cilantro is about a third what it was. Very happy potatoes.
Which I don't know much of anything about, thanks for the reference. So far it appears I'm doing incredibly well. When I shake the ground cloth and find potatoes, I'll believe it. More or less followed advice from a Rodale book, "Garden Answers". Later today I'll spread some not-so-great compost (started with too-woody 6' tall weeds that didn't break down completely from last Oct) on the spuds. No idea what depth is necessary.
Rock powders.... OK, for now I'm going to approach it like nitrogen in manure. Might not be ideal, so use (or eat) a little more to make up the deficit.
I'm in total agreement with you and Splintie. Wonderful that individuals like sphere-guy exist. I don't think there was large volume in the sphere to heat. Did you calculate it? We've got 20k ft³ here. IIRC, that sphere housed 2 adults and a kid or 2. Occupants can make a significant difference if you have small volume, or small heat loss.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Wish I had cilantro like that! Amazing what a lazy-man's compost heap does for the soil. And so much easier than carting off all that stuff, then carting it back again later on as compost!
Started reading a book about rock powders late last nite......one notable thing, it said if you use rock powders, don't use chemicals, they render the rock powders useless (electrolyte effect). After just reading a chapter, I plan to go out today and toss limerock all over the garden lightly.....it seems to be the first thing always called for, to make the other minerals available.
I didn't calculate that sphere volumne. But space reminds me of a book I've always wanted to read, about a woman who built her own strawbale, and learned to build smaller spaces, with more outdoor useable areas.....This House of Straw, I believe was the name???
Example of a sphere volume for ya.
edit: I think it didn't copy the value I had entered, ut you can click and go there I think
CALCULATE VOLUME OF SPHERE
Enter a known value in the form below and press the "CALCULATE" button.This calculator ignores sign, and returns the absolute value!View ImageView Image
RADIUS (r)
VOLUME
Answer you can copy
SELECT ANOTHER SHAPE
Go to Unit Conversion
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
New book alert; Eckhart Tolle "A new earth"
A must read.
Edited 5/26/2008 2:45 pm ET by Sphere
You're aided to a great extent by your climate there. Tomatoes require extraordinary measures in these parts! Interesting about the peas sharing the tomatoes with the tomatoes - their ripening times would be nicely offset, so i think i'll trial that outdoors, since indoor space is full-up. I'm a little concerned now that tomatoes might run out of headroom if they get optimal conditions indoors. Outside, they've grown to only about 3' tall....surely not 4'.
The HH is largely an attempt to do a lot of the work just once, as in building the beds of stout material and filling them with good stuff; i don't ever want to have to do all that again. I'm not lazy, but i get bored easily so i'm not a fan of tilling or weeding at all.
My compost has been low-temp just because i don't have enough of anything to compost at one time. I have posts pounded for an enclosing fence for my property now so when i get the poles up i can ask my neighbors if they'd like a little free pasturage. That way i'd have some idea of what the manure is made of. I suppose i should start thinking of alfalfa as the high-desert version of seaweed and collect it from around my four acres, bypass the horse involvement entirely!
The HH is largely an attempt to do a lot of the work just once, as in building the beds of stout material and filling them with good stuff; i don't ever want to have to do all that again.
Amen.
Seems to me you're well on the way. As you've noted, there are some indoor gardening issues. I get some aphids when I cover with glass for instance. But when you approach your needs, coupled with your climate, you can/should get a balanced approach that will require the minimum from you.
Clearly different from what I'm doing, both climate and needs.
The Virginian who got me going with Coleman was certain I needed a greenhouse of some sort. Am pretty happy with what I'm doing. Briefly considered removing the umbrella directly over the house and substituting a greenhouse instead. Probably would work fine- probably won't happen.
Hope you update this thread periodically.PAHS works. Bury it.
What portion of your food do you suppose you supply from your roof?
I'm hoping to fill all my calorie/nutrition needs for me and the mutts except for dried beans, rice, flour, and some fruit for now until the trees get with the program. I put it in those terms when i decided to spend up to a thousand dollars on the hoophouse, that it would pay for the cost of materials in less than a year, which seemed a very sound investment. If i really hated gardening, the labor part of the calculus wouldn't work at all, but since it does double-duty as recreation...
What portion of your food do you suppose you supply from your roof?
I don't food shop, or do much cooking. So I asked DW, who didn't have much idea. As there's no carbs from there yet, probably not a large %. She is urging me to increase it, ergo potatoes that look like they're gonna take over the world. Also mentioned beans would be good. Geez, she's why I got the raspberries going.
Did get an idea of our food cost. Top of the list: the dinner beverage, wine. And we're not snobs. About half our normal weekly cost. So maybe we are eating more than she thought from the roof. I do a lot of harvesting.
Forest protein is next on the list. Readily available.
I share your economic attitude. Payback here is extremely short. Very little labor. I've gotta redo my bed sides soon. Those 6x6 red oak timbers only lasted 9 yrs, about 5 yrs longer than I expected. Ferrocement is the likely replacement. The 6x6's were left over from building my lumber shed.
Not everybody has sides on their raised beds, so I'm experimenting this summer with letting them fall off one bed. See what happens.
Easy enough to cut some more timbers (still have a 500 bf red oak log that I need to do something with), but I'm thinking longevity. And expanding the growing space.
Appears I picked up a driveway/land use consultation gig at the party. Couple have 17 acres that they haven't been satisfied with Realtor response about. Needed somebody who knew zoning: driveways/building site requirements. That's me! They don't wanna be developers, I smell partnership. Potential is 5 lots @ ~$250k in that neighborhood.
Were horrified when I told them how we live. Can't see any neighbors? <gasp> Their next move is to a 55/up planned community. Yeah, we have a lot in common...PAHS works. Bury it.
Thinking over my question about how much food you supply from the garden...that could be construed as how much of the food bill is saved or how many calories are supplied, i guess, and your answer reflected that. I wasn't clear in my own mind exactly what i was asking, but i mostly think in terms of what keeps me from having to go to the grocery store. My legumes and cereals would be hard to raise in quantities sufficient to our needs, but i nibble away at the expensive edges of fresh food while buying the cheaper starches. I undoubtedly get better nutrition that way, but it's secondary to just not wanting to hold down a job, LOL.
Wine is half your food bill, eh? You two be good dinnermates with Jimm and his DW; another of Jim's beautiful creations is his Wall o' Wine. I've never had the bug myself, but beer's back on the menu. The party i went to yesterday featured excellent microbrews grown locally. One of the celebrants said Montana has the highest number of microbreweries per capita in the nation! OK, we don't have much capita, but still...
Sides on raised beds: I tried growing on the ground, on humped-up beds, with old door and window frames i tore out of this house, and with pine poles laid lengthwise. (The painted 3/4" jambs lasted longer than 3" dia. pine poles.) I suppose having to put it all inside a dog-proof fence and water it makes me more conservative of space. It's hard to tell what's due to soil improvement or higher beds or better watering systems, but the higher i went the better results i've gotten.
No hardwoods for the taking here, sadly for the gardener and the woodworker in me. At another house I had 'raised beds' of kiddie swimming pools that were criss-crossed with 1/2" PVC pipe for a framework to drape plastic over...fast and fun and the pools are only about $10.
Development: are you saying just the 3+ acre lots would go a quarter-million? And here i was imagining you lived in the backwoods of ol' Virginny! "Planned community"...well, that's one way to prepare to die.
We drink a little wine, must've missed a thread here. To date, I've concentrated on growing what's either generally unavailable, or expensive to buy (usually the same). Shiitakes grow out front, in the shade. Then Has pointed out the difference in greens' age. Absolutely correct. Store cilantro isn't much. And like you, I'd far rather walk to the roof than drive to the city.
The bed's high, for now. Remains to be seen what'll happen without the wood support. If it stays up there, I don't have to do anything. I know, wishful thinking... The one flat bed I made here never amounted to much (in comparison). Thought I'd have it replaced by now with a tire board raised bed. Turned out to be a PITA to flatten those big truck tires.
No hardwoods for the taking here, sadly for the gardener and the woodworker in me.
There you go, road trip! Tie that 38' log into your truck bed. It'll support all the translucent panels you want. I'll find a red flag for you.
Development: are you saying just the 3+ acre lots would go a quarter-million? And here i was imagining you lived in the backwoods of ol' Virginny!
Sorta. We're 20 minutes from a major U./medical center. Second property over from here, the farm's been subdivided into a few housesites. Selling briskly, averaging over $700k (including a share in the farm). Fortunately, our assessment's nowhere close to that yet. $250k isn't unreasonable for a place to park your house, where that acreage is. I'd guess quick sales at $190k. Normally nothing anywhere in the county under $100k for a house site.
You haven't heard me whining here about the possibility of being taxed out of here? Farm taxation for now, about 10% of real market. We're tree farmers.
It's become hoity-toity, we don't exactly fit. For instance, I run into John Grisham at the country PO where I buy money orders for ebay. Don't remember ever seeing him buy one... Real nice Little League complex he donated. Land adjoining his spread has some truly amazing assessments.
Major growth industry here is all things vinaceous. And more than a few horse-breeders.
So, we could cash out and find a decent affordable spot there? Then I'd have to learn how to build a hoop house. <VBG>
PAHS works. Bury it.
Prices here went nuts, too. How do you think i afford unemployment? I bought three houses before they appreciated. A couple acres of sagebrush goes for $55K and NO water except what can be pumped.
I've looked at the Boise area...lots more reasonable for land, comparable cultural amenties (university, museums, govt and medical, microbreweries, hot springs, mountains, a great lumber wholesaler), and much warmer climate than here. I think the area is the "next best place" to the "last best place", as locals refer to this place. I have some customer/friends there: he's the sports doc for the university and she wins wine awards...starting with planting her own grapes. The best craft show i ever did, $7K one w/e, was in Boise.
I have to check the VW ratings on my Tacoma and get a hitch to pull that log and the panels. Talk soon.... <G>
It's also just occurred to me that the hoophouse would be the ideal location to raise bread. It's blowing fiercely outside with sprinkles (so much for planting my taters), but inside the HH it's close to 80* and humid. I cracked the door a smidge. I was out there getting soil samples for testing, as follows.
>> hoping to fill all my calorie/nutrition needs for me and the mutts except for...... flour, We buy 50# bags of hard red winter wheat and then grind fresh flour when we need it. Whole wheat stores well. It has better nutrition. It's cheap. BUT the real reason is the flavor. Whether you're making waffles (knocks guests over with flavor they've never tasted), bread, pizza dough, foccacia (SP?), biscuits, pie crust (dw's fave), or whatever, the flavor of just-ground flour is incredibly good and available in no other way.We bought a grinder attachment for a Champion Juicer back in '82 when we lived in Montana. It still works fine.We do buy a bit of white flour for certain small uses, but we don't put it in any of the foods I mentioned above.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
We buy 50# bags of hard red winter wheat and then grind fresh flour when we need it.
ZAP ... Got my attention. Where? How much? I'm real picky about wheat flour, like the bags with the knight. What's the deal with "stone ground"? DW buys whatever groceries I don't grow, does most of the cooking, but I do the bread-baking.
About which, if you're an expert, I've got questions. Quite a few. Between here and Denver, I've got a sizeable following. Refuse to take money.
That's focaccia, btw. In Italian, if you pronounce it correctly, real easy to spell. Well, assuming one understands the grammatic rules.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 5/26/2008 11:22 am ET by VaTom
Hi! Do you live anywhere near Lovingston? I had a close friend who built a big house near there with a huge pile of rocks in what looked like a second basement before he filled it up with those rocks. I guess that's the kind of heat sink you're referring to in which air is circulated through the rocks at almost a constant temperature summer and winter. I don't think money was much of a factor and it seemed to me to be over-engineered. Worked great, though. My wife and I spent a lot of time there off and on. The house was almost on the very top of Roberts Mountain (no apostrophe). He had thousands of wild black rasberries all around the place. Regrettably, he died a few years ago and the house is now used for retreats. Still go by there once in a while.
I accept.
That was an invitation for your next retreat? Or at least an offer for some of those raspberry plants (so long as they weren't really blackberries, ubiquitous here)? <G>
We're just off 29, 25 min N of Lovingston. Israel Mountain, on what was the main turnpike (literally) pre-RR in this part of Va. No idea which mountain is Roberts, but I've got a detailed Nelson County map in my shop. Nelson has lots of mountains, as you know. And more than a few interesting houses.
A whole lot of rock-underfloor-heat-storage plans didn't work very well. Poorly designed. Was just on the phone with my Atlanta acquaintance about getting his PAHS design past his plan approver. He needs heat loss/gain calcs, everything else was fine.
Or stick some electric baseboard heaters in until the inspectors are gone. That's what I did. Borrowed 2 dinky ones for our 20k ft³. LMAO
Heat calcs are good in any event. I did mine after the fact. Learned a lot.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Awhile back in this thread, I asserted that gypsum was a method of raising soil pH....turns out, I was misinformed a number of years ago...The MG text for the Pacific Northwest, which is entitled "Sustainable Gardening" Says this of gypsum: "Gypsum (calcium sulphate) is not a substitute for lime. It supplies calcium and sulphur, but has little effect on soil pH. Gypsum has been promoted as a soil amendment to improve soil structure. In the vast majority of cases, it does not. Gypsum improves structure only when poor structure results from excess sodium in the soil, a rare condition in the Northwest. Use organic amendments to improve soil structure (described earlier in this chapter under 'Adding Organic Matter.'"
Thanks! I almost bought some last week, since orchardists in this area claim it is needed. From what I've read so far, limerock is very important, not for only raising ph, but for making calcium available. In fact, what I'm reading cites all the rock powders as important to the soil organisms, instead of the other way around (organisms making the soil good). Interesting.......but I'm going crazy with so much to do in the garden!
Also from the "Sustainable Gardening" is the following information about soil pH.Bear in mind, this text is published jointly by Oregon State University and the University of Washington Horticulture Departments that primarily address PNW climates, but the pH discussion is a bit more general. "Soil pH measures the acidity or alkalinity of a soil. At a pH of 7 (neutral) acidity and alkalinity are balanced. Acidity increases by a factor of 19 with each 1-unit drop below 7.. For example, a pH of 5.5 is 10 times as acidic as a pH of 6.5. Alkalinity increases by a factor of ten with each 1-unit change in pH above 7. "Native soil pH depends on the minerals present in the soil and on rainfall. Soils in arid areas tend to be alkaline, and those in rainy areas tend to be acidic. Gardening and farming also affect soil pH; for example, many nitrogen fertilizers tend to reduce pH while liming increases pH. "Soil pH influences plant growth in three ways: 1. It affects availability of plant nutrients.
2. It affects availability of toxic metals.
3. It affects the activity of soil micro-organisms, in turn affects nutrient cycling and disease risk. "The availability of phosphorous decrease in acid soils while the availability of iron increases. In alkaline soils, the availability of iron and zinc can be quite low. "Aluminum availability increases in acid soils.
Aluminum is one of the most common elements in soil, but it is not a plant nutrient and is toxic to plants in high concentrations. Very little aluminum is in concentration in soils above pH 6, and it causes no problem for plants. "Microbes are affected by soil pH. The most numerous and diverse microbial populations exist in the middle of the pH range. Fewer organisms are adapted to strongly acid or strongly alkaline soils. Nutrient cycling is slower in acid or alkaline soils because of reduced microbial populations. "Many garden crops perform best in soil with pH of 5.5 to 7.5 but some (such as blueberries and rhododendrons) are adapted to more strongly acid soils. "Before amending soil to adjust pH, it is important to know the preferred pH ranges of your plants.
The most common way to increase soil pH is to add lime. Lime is ground limestone, a rock containing calcium carbonate.It is an organic (natural) amendment suitable for use by organic gardeners. Lime raises the pH of soils and supplies calcium, an essential nutrient.Dolomitic lime contains magnesium as well as calcium. (Western Oregon and Washington soils are often deficient in magnesium).Soil pH can be determined by testing (kits are available in most garden stores).In the absence of a soil test, PNW gardeners west of the Cascades can usually be safe applying 50 lbs. of lime per 1000 sq. ft. per year, except in areas where acid-loving plants are growing.Wood ashes are a source of potassium, calcium and magnesium and will also raise pH. To avoid salt-injury to plants, apply ashes at about 15 to 25 lbs. per 1k sq. ft.pH is usually lowered with application of elemental sulphur, ammonium sulphate fertilizer or urea.
Edited 5/26/2008 2:58 pm by Notchman
Don't know Israel Mountain. Spent a lot of time cruising 29 to and from the airport and getting downtown. Roberts Mountain is just west of 29. You take Route 6 west about three miles, turn left over Rock Creek and after a half mile or so make another left. There's a group of about 15 - 20 houses, mostly upscale, randomly sited up and around the mountain. A very nice B&B, called Fallen Oak, is there also. I think the lots average around 10 acres. It's also the location of the Monroe Institute.
Monroe Institute... love the place. That's Roberts Mountain? It's a plateau, beautiful. Buddy built a very perculiar house in the small "subdivision" just upstream of the road in. Bottom of Roberts, turn R just before the bridge onto gravel. Likened to a movie set.
I consulted with a very strange individual who was renting a house in the Institute. She was gung-ho, but I declined building a house for her. A tad too far out for me.
You an out-of-body person? I'm not (anymore), but love local color.
Israel's in Albemarle. Only outstanding attribute is me, part of the local color. Here you go: Or not. When did topozone become trails.com? How obnoxious.PAHS works. Bury it.
Was that house done for a doctor about 15 years ago? My wife and I were close friends of Bob and Nancy Monroe, used to stay there several times a year. I was on the board. Now we visit on occasion to see old pals. It was Bob's house that had the big rock basement. They also had baseboard heat. Gets cold up there in the winter! Yeah, we're one of those. What do you men you're not an OBE person anymore?
No idea about the rental house on the Institute grounds. Landlady, was all I knew. Let's see... past the Institute buildings, bear right at the intersection, house or two past the one with the array of solar panels in the yard. Basement garage, on the front of the house. Now that I think about it, the solar panel house might have been the landlady.
Been a few years, I get fuzzy. The woman I knew tried to get me to talk to the solar panel owner who had no maintenance help, and a failed system. I understood the basics, declined.
My out of body experiences were chemically induced. Not quite the same thing, if I understand it correctly.
How/why did the Monroes settle there? Exquisite piece of ground. Don't know their house, but it sure was surprising to leave the valley, ascend a short hill and find that plateau.
I never understood the connection of the woman I was dealing with (computer programmer with dependent parents), assumed she had an Institute reason to be there, but she never explained. Not that it was any of my business.
Which was housing consultant. I was pleased to be able to save them several times what they paid me.PAHS works. Bury it.
Bob Monroe bought 600 acres , I dunno, maybe in the sixties? Then he subdivided it as others wanted to live there, too. Used to be you had to have been through the "Gateway" program to qualify. There are/were quite a few influential folks living there, some of them a little on the woo-woo side depending on what scale you used to judge. I have a sliding scale, not like the ones I use in my shop with those funny little lines and numbers where it says Stare at.
I'm not an expert on anything, but I'll gladly share the bit I know.We have a little local health food store. The owner lets us order anything from her wholesale catalog with a 20% mark-up. Years ago we could get 50# of hard red wheat for about $8-9, but now it's up to around $15-16. Still makes A LOT of food. We store it in gallon jars after purchase. Don't store a paper bag of grain on concrete unless you're wanting to consumer ergot.My understanding is that stone-ground just refers to the type of grinder used. Theoretically stone grinders don't heat the flour as much and are therefore better. Since we use our flour immediately and don't store it, we're satisfied with our steel-cut grinder.After smelling, using, and eating whole wheat flour for over 30 years, I'm convinced that ALL non-fresh whole wheat flour is rancid. Period. Some may be more rancid than other, but I think it's like picking lettuce. It starts to go bad as soon as it's picked. I'm sure you know that three day old lettuce (let alone three week old!) is not nearly as good as 30 minute old lettuce. It's oils in the wheat bran that contain much of the extra nutrition that whole flour contains (compared with white). It's the same bunch of oils that don't keep worth a damn. I know basic Spanish pronunciations, but my Italian is not so good (some would probably say the same of my English!). I can cook Italian, but still the names screwed up. My fave fast bread is 100% whole wheat yest dough made into focaccia with only garlic and olive oil. A little red wine and... I digress.My bread making primary reference is the Tassahara Bread Book. It is, literally, the zen bakers guide. You could think of it as "the way of yeast bread" or maybe "bread-do" (how's your japanese procunciation!)
< G >I like to make bread, but usually only do so in the winter. Please, tell us all about some bread making!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Well, that's a whole lot cheaper than what we've been paying. Never having experienced fresh ground, I'll have to take your word for it. Never had a problem with bread-acceptance, however.
As we speak, DW's negotiating a fall Paris visit. The friend maintains an apartment there. And drools when she thinks of my bread. Which DW just presented, fresh from the oven. Will it survive to dinner? Unlikely.
I bake year 'round. Preferably twice/week. Our house doesn't over-heat, ever. There you go, another PAHS benefit... LOL
Some may be more rancid than other, but I think it's like picking lettuce...
You got me. Unlikely I'll buy a grinder until I test, but I'll bet I can scare up one here to borrow if I make enough calls. Or, DW remembered a small commercial mill over in the valley. And the friend who used to frequent it, so we can track them down.
Got the pun... Japanese, I left to my sister, Master's U of A. But DW and I lived with a group of them one winter in Israel a hundred years ago. I was hopeless. Names that end in ko are feminine: little bird. That was about the extent of my facility. Their care packages, and subsequent meals, were delightful. Fortunately a couple of them spoke English.
Digress? Who, us?
Never baked before moving to Va. First winter I did all the cooking, was supposed to be building but we hadn't closed on any land. I can read a cookbook, make a mess. A bread book, Uncle John's was on the shelf. Did a lot of experimenting, including altering recipes, kneading schedules, oven temps.
Conclusions: I never use any fat. Never double-rise. Never pre-heat the oven, bake hot. Exterior seeds need to be glued on. Over-handling is not only horrible for the bread, it's extremely common.
Have yet to figure out a rye I really like. Hmmm... rancid flour? Haven't found a sourdough starter worth saving. Still trying to find someone who knows more than I do about wood-fired ovens. I'm skeptical.
Then I met a local author (3 published cookbooks) who had the same attitudes! Couldn't believe it. Blanche and I are good buddies now. Pinched her 94 yo butt at the birthday party yesterday. I'll spare y'all the textural comparisons.
One thing that's totally eluded me (and Blanche) was how to make bad bread. I truly have no idea. How do they make that fluffy stuff in the store? And what is it?
PAHS works. Bury it.
I always told my kids that white grocery store bread, cool whip, non-dairy dairy knock-offs, etc. were all actually made of PVC.I agree that any bread fresh out of the oven is better than anything not fresh out of the oven. You are making me want to bake bread. I've always double raised the dough for the simple reason that most recipes say to do it. I'll try your method. I don't see how anyone can ruin bread, but if they get the ingredient list long enough, with enough unknown substances, they do manage it.It's too bad for me and likely good for you that you don't live closer. I'd be over sniffing for the smell of fresh bread!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
PVC... lol That's good.
You strike me a great neighbor, not that I want one within a half mile... Very little makes guests salivate more than the aroma of fresh bread. DW's trip is set, was sent a nice bottle of wine, a thankyou for the bread. And a really nice hambone from yesterday's party. Livin' high on the hog on Israel Mountain, oh yeah.
Blanche's cookbook is the only place I've ever seen a recommendation for single-rising, form, place in cold oven. That was what I was doing several years before I met her and got a cookbook. She didn't remember where she learned/discovered. Obviously there's a second rise while the oven's heating.
Don't remember where she stood on loaf pans. I hate 'em. Much prefer the texture from sheet baking. Used to use cornmeal under, and miss it a little. DW bought a silicone sheet that works amazingly well. I'm hoping it's inert.
They used to say Teflon was. Never did like that stuff.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Back when Ian was about, we cleared out a disintegrating Mormon family of their food hoard, about 2-1/2 tons of it. I kept a couple 5-gal pails of red wheat, probably ten years old at least, but gave the rest of it, about 750#, to someone to feed their critters. I was in a getting-rid-of mood the last couple years....kick myself now!
One other thing we scored from the survivalists was an old, Hobart-made, deco coffee-grinder like this one
View Image
which i've used to grind everything but coffee so far. It wasn't working at first, but Ian took it apart, cleaned and lubed it, replaced the light in the front panel...very fun to use...and it works amazingly well now, plus the grind is adjustable. It sits on the end of my workbench in the woodshop since it's so heavy i haven't gotten the oomph to move it upstairs to the kitchen. I've been wanting to make flour with it and the red wheat...just one of those things i haven't done yet.
Cool grinder!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
In general coffee grinders are a bad choice for grinding whole grains. Grains benefit from slow grinding that doesn't heat/burn the product, coffee grinders area a high speed proposition usually. That is one of the reasons some swear by stone ground grains, the stones do not turn at the high speeds that the steel grinding mills for grain do, coffee grinders operate at higher speeds than steel grain grinding mills.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I think you got it right. Since we don't grind more than 2 or 3 cups at a time the grinder doesn't heat up too much. I assume that there is a tiny bit more nutrition lost in the grinding as the temperature goes up, but I don't think it makes much difference unless the flour is to be stored and not used immediately.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Heat works to "cook" the oils present in the grain and start the change towards going rancid. ( IIRC over heating any cooking oils has the same effect) Probably doesn't hurt for immediate use, I wouldn't know for sure. This is peripheral information to me picked up from living with a bunch of hippies and "back to the landers" years ago, combined with an ex-wife who was truly knowledgeable about both cooking and organic gardening and one of whose hobbies was collecting and using cook books from the late 1800's. None of it is anything something I have actually done much of or have studied. Reading this thread is like a walk down memory lane for me. Some days I think my memory is like that one drawer in the kitchen that never gets cleaned out or emptied.
Never know how things got in there nor what you will find in there, but You are certain it will come in handy to someone some day. One thing we used to do for the annual plantings was alternate strip/paths year by year in the gardens. Plant a bed, walk , bed, walk. All the walks would be used for compost and had straw placed in them to mulch the weeds down. The next year the whole garden was tilled and the areas that were walks became the beds and the cycle repeated.
Doing this in theory allowed the micro organisms a whole year to work undisturbed and also kept plant specific soil born pathogens from building in any given bed. VATOM I think mentioned Rye flour and ergots.
Naturally occurring form of LSD can occur, though one that definitely can can cause serious health problems. "The History of Saint Anthony's FireOn 15 August 1151 one in twenty of the 4000 inhabitants of another village in France called Pont Saint Esprit (Bridge of the Holy Spirit) went mad. They had hallucinations, writhed in agony in their beds, vomited, ran crazily in the streets and suffered terrible burning sensations in their limbs.The madness was quickly diagnosed. They were suffering from St Anthony's Fire, a dreaded illness that was common in the Middle Ages. The cause was poisoning from a fungus (ergot) that grows on rye grass. The fungus contaminated the rye flour used in making bread.Ergot contains a chemical that makes the sufferers go berserk and causes gangrene of the hands and feet due to constriction of blood supply to the extremities. If it is not treated (and this was not possible in the Middle Ages), victims had the sensation of being burned at the stake, before their fingers, toes, hands and feet dropped off. ""
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Ergotamine (supplied with caffeine as "Cafergot") is one of the old remedies for migraine, though one i've never tried on myself.
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=849270
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You wouldn't want to try titrating it yourself from mouldy bread, eh?!
I don't think so , I preferred the more refined version of the lysergic acids myself. ;-) But as an aside I have heard the Marie Antoinette's famous quote about "Let them eat cake" was actually a reference to giving the peasants wheat flour for bread as opposed to the more common rye flour, the wheat produced a more "Cake " like bread and was commonly used only by the wealthier.
Don't know if that is true or not.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Do you, or anyone out there, know about grain mills........I have a Champion grain mill attachment, but kinda wish for one that's quieter, and a little easier..
But, going to stone, I've heard that those are made of aluminum oxide, which will shed little pieces in your food.......we don't really need aluminum in our food..... Is the Country Living Mill powder coated, even on the burrs? (can't imagine). I'm not really wanting a handmill, but electric....
I've had luck using fresh ground flour (spelt usually), to make rolls/bread without yeast....it's like the warmth of the grinding process starts it rising....and I do sprinkle in some fresh herbs, so perhaps bacteria there.
Another question.....duram wheat:I've heard it's tastier, nutty flavored, like Spelt. Does is make bread?(why not?)!
Sorry I really don't know much more than I have passed on here. I do know that Durham wheat has a high gluten content and makes for a "heavy " bread unless mixed with flour that has lower gluten content.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
More PAHS...
used those clear tubes filled with water in front of south window
Kind of pointless to put clear-ish water tubes in front of a window. These were on a windowless wall. Just added mass at equilibrium temp. Not unlike the mass of my house.
PVC buried in the ground for pre-heating/cooling ventilation air
I didn't use earth tubes. Feared mold incubation. An Atlanta PAHS is getting earth tubes, going to be interesting what monitoring them reveals. Entirely possible my fears were wrong. One very nice aspect of PAHS is that there's no required form, just the balance of heat need/supply. But suggesting that there's any similarity to ground source heat pumps missed the active/passive dichotomy. Immense cost/maintenance difference between the two.
you do all the really heavy work and expensive earth-moving up-front with a PAHS house, instead of piecemeal as you live in it by splitting a bit of wood or buying a little heat
You're assuming there's substantial extra cost to burying the house. That's exactly opposite of my experience. The last house appraised 50% higher than construction cost, directly comparing it to conventional houses (totally ignoring any energy features). The shell wasn't the only factor, but a major one.
But you lose the 360 views
No. We have no north windows, but that's because I buried the house into a south-facing slope. As I've explained, that's not required. There's no reason not to have windows on all sides, just makes the umbrella slightly more complex. PAHS isn't about house style, just heat storage. Wherever you want to put it (just make it passive or you're going to another system/acronym). Size of the storage is dictated by heat need (loss) and direct gain (if any).
That's the only trade-off, which really is just like any house except for the heat storage part. You read about the crane guy (accustomed to wood trusses) being shocked at how little the roof cost? Labor to complete it is in the save vein, extremely low. This is simple commercial construction. Wouldn't be done if it cost more.
I'm cheap, and lazy. House and garden both reflect that. PAHS works. Bury it.
PAHS: I understand the principle of storing heat in an insulated 'container', but what i've read suggests window placement needs to be considered. The Missoula house faces south, has only 6% of its area in windows - strikes me as dungeonish. Yours has a lot more, but you've traded performance for it. Another source recommended windows on the east and west to spread the gain throughout the day, which makes me wonder if the author truly understands the concept himself.
I calculated a house of about 1200 SF would require ~160 full sheets of foam at 4" thick to achieve the R-20 required for 20' beyond the envelope, per Hait. Again, you are in a pretty moderate climate, so the point of diminishing returns occurs sooner for you. On that note, here's an ebay auction you might be interested in...collection point in VA.
I just talked to an old friend today who's having the AGS form of solar heat storage done on an addition starting next week. Solar collectors will charge the soil under his insulated floor. Sounded crazy to me when he told me, but my reading tonight was informative.
Thanks; you've made me bone up on the PAHS and AGS systems. Not exhaustively, by any means, but i'm not as ignorant as i usta be! <g>
On that note, here's an ebay auction you might be interested in...collection point in VA.
Very interesting, thank you. They don't say how many board feet, prefer to vaguely compare price to big box. So... my best guess works out to .22-.23/ board ft. Current price of new 2"-4x8 (preferred) xps here is .275/bd ft delivered.
but you've traded performance for it.
Absolutely. However, it helps to keep it in perspective. I have a 13º annual swing to Hait's 7º- in a very different climate. Missoula doesn't have our cooling degree-days, which make up all the temp difference. And window coverings would eliminate 3º of the 13º. Took me awhile to understand how it all works. And the potential for widely varying climates.
Houses really aren't for efficiently warehousing people. Better used for living inside. For us, that means large glazing.
I just talked to an old friend today who's having the AGS form of solar heat storage done on an addition starting next week.
Don Stephens (who coined AGS) and I've known each other for many years. Don't bother butting heads anymore. The one time we directly compared performance, his shining example was significantly worse than my (compromised performance) house when climate-corrected. Something Don doesn't pay attention to. Until I corrected him, he used to expand on how incredibly hot his summers are- all of 398 cooling degree-days. A quarter of ours.
He did motivate me to understand how/why our house does what it does.
Nothing wrong with AGS, if you can work out the details which Don won't divulge to non-clients. There has been a great deal of complaining about that on alternative architecture lists. Don promises ("busy now, will get back on Tuesday"), never delivers.
Primarily, it's higher temp storage (meaning you can use much less mass), always using a remote collection point (usually an attic), and an active system for moving the heat. Higher temps of course mean losses are more critical, delta T is everything.
It's unfortunate that Don feels comfortable with promoting what he knows are untruths about PAHS on his web site. But he's making his living promoting an alternative. His marketing has apparently been successful, greatly aided by selling "green".
Once belittled a hapless soul who wanted to recycle concrete test cylinders, by likening them to Khmer Rouge skull piles. I was subscribed to the list but an amazing number of people forwarded Don's post to me.
There's a designer in Michigan who I find much more refreshing in his similar (to Don's) approach in designing heating systems. Without the BS. IIRC, does not use the AGS title, but it's the same process.
Both, unfortunately, have little to offer the large number of folks living in climates where ac is the norm. Like here.PAHS works. Bury it.
If my calculations and your price are correct, the umbrella for my hypothetical 1200 sf PAHS house would cost $5632 for insulation. (160 pcs. x 32 sf/sheet x 4 inches thick x .275 dollars.) Plus polyethylene.That's not as exorbitant as i expected; payback would be in about 7-8 years over what i spend here in my walk-out basement place of 3000sf, and a person would no doubt be more comfortable. (The installation detail parfait layers is perplexing to me.) Does it matter how many floors you stack under the insulation umbrella?
The solar collectors for the new addition in my friend's front yard will be located on top of the garage on the back property line. A PAHS house isn't possible in his location on a city lot, so i guess this is the compromise. I hope his installer knows what he's doing. My friends said the solar installation will run $10K, not including the boiler. MY BS detector went off when i looked up the guy's website citing "zero" green house gas emissions, at efficiency levels of up to 450%.
Thanks for the inside scoop on PAHS v. AGS. All this cutting edge stuff is necessarily driven by folks who didn't fit into the pocket-protector niche, so i expect some anomalous behavior; concrete cores cum skulls is near the high-water mark of peculiar similes. Is there a reason you don't mention by name the designer in Michigan? If you'd rather not say here, but would email it to me? My interest is piqued in learning more on this subject now i've started, and bec i am in a heating climate as he is.
That's not as exorbitant as i expected; payback would be in about 7-8 years over what i spend here in my walk-out basement place of 3000sf, and a person would no doubt be more comfortable. (The installation detail parfait layers is perplexing to me.) Does it matter how many floors you stack under the insulation umbrella?
Push a different button, please. But it's early (for me) so no eye strain yet. PAHS takes a lot of insulation. Something not understood by most. I never price it except by the truckload, and that price was only from my first call. Entirely possible to do better. Bear in mind that 6 mil poly also replaces ice&water, roofing felt, shingles/copper/whatever. And has considerably less roofing labor.
All the umbrella does is keep your mass (and house) insulated and dry. Engineering gets interesting if you have a lot more than my 15' of fill against a wall. The size of the mass corresponds (or should) with your heat loss. Volume of the house, less important.
Hope your friend does better than it appears. For that money couldn't he have gotten a ground source heat pump? I'm not particularly fond of them, but they work. About what the guy spent where I removed radiators from his house recently. He's using wells, not trenches.
Is there a reason you don't mention by name the designer in Michigan? If you'd rather not say here, but would email it to me?
Sigh. I really don't like to disparage anybody and try to see benefit in anybody's programs. Laren's the Michigan guy. Don't know him well. Unfortunately he seems to be following Don Stephens' lead in self-promotion. Here's how he signs off a posting:
"-Laren Corie-Natural Solar Building Design Since 1975http://www.ThermalAttic.comRead my Solar house design articles in:-Energy Self-Sufficiency Newsletter-http://www.rebelwolf.comHome base:LittleHouses YahooGrouphttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleHouses/ "
Used to "own" a YahooGroup about refrigerator alternatives. Probably didn't mention it as he's clearly trolling for house clients. But is vastly more willing to share information than Don is.PAHS works. Bury it.
But it's early (for me) so no eye strain yet.
Yeah, the formatting changes depending on what browswer you use. This looks huge to me in IE, normal in Mozilla.
Volume of the house, less important.
That's what i was wondering. None of the stuff i've read so far addressed that specifically. A lot of the examples have a look-out at the top, but i didn't see much about another layer under the main floor.
Thanks for the Michigan guy's name. I don't think of commentary as disparaging unless it's personal. A person's product ought to be fair game. As far as self-promotion, i don't get a lot of hits on PAHS googling that does't include Hait's $50 book to find out all about it. <G>
It's fine line between self-promotion and not making a living, eh? I was never very comfortable with the hard-sell like some of my more successful artfair compatriots so i made up for it by doing good work at excellent prices. I turned down a job last night to make a highboy for a couple who referenced "Ethan Allen". I'm unprepared to compete with mass-production models, either artistically, temperamentally, or financially. OTOH, i can't really knock those who go looking for the gravy train, either, bec no one has to buy what they're selling if they don't want to. Hype, though...that's ticks me off.
Hype, though...that's ticks me off.
Laren, and Don, go out of their way to let you know how long they've been designing houses. And I guess some were built. I'd much prefer they stood squarely on the success of their designs. Other designers do.
Never met either, but Don's misleading website... Well there's no good excuse. And he ought to be upfront enough to tell everybody that he wants money for details. As I haven't paid, I'm only assuming that there are details available. Don's not a numbers guy. Laren is. But it won't take you long to know more about him than I do.
Most welcome. I had to dig a posting out of YahooGroups to get you that Laren info, wasn't hesitation. The archives are public.
Hait wrote the book, then disappeared for a couple decades. Seems now more interested in cashing in. His marketing hasn't been very good. Not that it would be difficult to flood that meager search result. PAHS hasn't exactly swept the world. Which is a common complaint.
I once did OK competing with Ethan Allen on a piece. When I was young and hungry. Client was tickled, did a large amount of further work for her. Which wasn't unusual for me. PAHS works. Bury it.
One of my first young-and-hungry jobs was a hutch made of birch plywood, but i'd not be interested in that again.
Someone's going to be upset not getting the 500th post. <g>
Here's the result of the NPK test on the mushroom compost. It's important to let the color develop at least 10 minutes, as suggested, on this test. The pH test seems to settle down in color fairly quickly, but the phorphorus readings weren't accurate until fully developed for ten minutes, as suggested. The nitrogen and potash ones didn't change much after the first minute.
The procedure is a bit different. The soil is mixed 1:4 with distilled water, shook up and allowed to settle. I used a baby food jar, then drew off water about a half-inch under the surface with a syringe and used it to carefully fill the tubes.
Results: very high nitrogen, very low potash, and medium phosphorus.
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Now to clean the tubes and test the background dirt levels.
Edited 5/26/2008 6:42 pm by splintergroupie
A picture would be good:
Someone's going to be upset not getting the 500th post. <g>
Oops. Sorry. I really can shutup- if I try.
But not yet! That grinder's killing me. Get on with it woman, grind some wheat. I don't care what you do with it. I've been on the verge of buying a coffee grinder and that might be the ticket, multipurpose.
Where'd you get those test kits? I don't get out much, they're new to me.PAHS works. Bury it.
I picked up this soil-test kit at Lowe's a few years ago at end-of-season close-out, but i saw they had more on the racks recently. It would occasionally swim into viewn and then disappear again...waiting for this thread apparently.
The results of testing the basic dirt in the beds. Wow...what a difference from the mushroom compost...and complementary, for the most part.
I'm shocked by the almost total lack of nitrogen after having added all that manure a few years ago. Potash is much higher than mushroom compost, probably from adding wood ashes over the years, but still looks light in that department. Phosphorus is good, but could be better.
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So my basic dirt is really lacking in Nitrogen. I just went out and put a day's worth of diluted pee (can't say u-rine because of the wilting censors) on every-other tomato and cabbage. I'll do the same tomorrow on the broccoli, see if i can tell the difference in a week.
Edited 5/26/2008 8:07 pm by splintergroupie
Not surprised on the low nitrogen, it is the most mobile of the major nutritents, either gassing off, being washed through the soil profile or being taken up by the plants. Around here we work on the assumption that almost none of the nirtogen from last year will carry over to this year.
In your case you would be somewhat better off due to your low rain fall which will reduce the amount which is washed through the soil.
A.
What would you suggest to add nitrogen other than manure? As i've said, i can't trust the manure of anything that eats hay around here for fear of it having been contaminated with Tordon. I'm going to start harvesting the alfalfa around my place and using it for mulch on the plants, but is there anything short of using Miracid that will help these poor babies NOW?
Some of the plants in the hoophouse are looking a little pale to me. It may be just the cold weather this past week since they looked great the sunny days after transplanting, but now i'm wondering about the poor N levels. I began dousing them with dilute u-rine yesterday, hoping that's the fix they need. Any other ideas?
I'm getting another load of the mushroom compost (which was adequate in N) to add to a new patch i'm tilling today for potatoes, and the feed store in town has elemental sulfur to start the pH down the scale.
Splintie;A good source of nitrogen and a lot of other plant nutrients is fish emulsion fertilizer.Most garden centers will have it, usually in gallon jugs that are a concentrate. The stuff I use makes up to 50 gallons from the gallon of concentrate.It acts pretty fast because it's already in usuable form so the roots can take it right up. It's also a good foliar, so you can just sprinkle it over the plants.It will give things a shot until your other, more slow-release fertilizers kick in.It smells a bit for a couple of days but the odor dissapates fairly quickly.Hopefully this doesn't violate your vegan principles, but it's better than Miracle-Gro and provides more woop-a##.
If i can avoid animal products, i prefer to, and i'd also like to obtain materials locally. I read this a while ago and thought there is something odd about bringing fish from the Caribbean, process it so drastically, add chemicals to it to mask the odor, bottle it in plastic, then truck it to Montana to feed my 'sustainable' garden.
Then i buy bananas. Go figure.
I just brought back another 1-1/2 yards of the mushroom compost. I notice the paler-looking veggies are in the rougher garden that i filled in the bottom with old grass, expecting it to rot down over the season, kind of like a grassy Hugel - that can't be helping the nitrogen deficiency. I'll side-dress the veggies with the nitrogen-rich compost and i'll keep watering them with the dilute u-rine.
I went to a birthday party with old, back-to-the-landers last Sunday. I wandered the garden they've made after 20 years....and viewed their 12' tall compost pile with renewed admiration. <G>
Now...i wonder if the tiller can be made to run after three years on vacation...
I also use, as a general fertilizer, similar to what Angus suggested; mine comes from Down to Earth, but mine does have blood and bone meal in it....
Why else would the neighborhood bear get into the barrel I had it stored in a couple months ago and eat all of it! (It wasn't for the ground kelp....)
I've just dug up a few areas in the greenhouse where i planted beans that i thought didn't germinate...they are just GONE. Not rotted, just MIA. Like your bear, somebody found the gravy train!
Disappointing note...the lacewings eggs i ordered for $27 don't appear to have hatched or done anything at all against the aphids. The aphids certainly aren't as bad outdoors as they were in the house on the seedlings so i'm not too concerned, but i'm going to email the company is another week or two and ask what gives.
The weather is picking up a little again after many days of rain and cold, so i expect the plants will be a lot merrier on that account alone. I was out in the hoophouse just as the sky was lightening this morning and the temp readings inside the HH and out were the same: 42*. I probably should have taken the HH reading at the bed level instead of eye level, come to think. Something to look forward to tonight...
I'm out the door to go pick up elemental sulfur, which is apparently not as lethal as it sounds. I envisioned clouds of toxic gas when i first read how to acidify soil, but it appears to be a common element added to soil to correct pH, and an organic amendment at that. The berries are gonna love me....
Your bean seeds are gone?You don't have voles do you?I've always fought those damned things....finally started using mousetraps and thinned them a bit....they're not as bad as gophers individually, but there's more of them....so the result is the same.
I looked for a tunnel or footprints, but i don't see anything. It's the darnest thing. Would mice dig them up? I'm invite the cats to stay inside, but i suspect they'd love digging in the soft dirt, too. eeeuuuwww! We have pocket gophers, who can't be too swift bec even my blind cat can catch them.
I think i'll set my Tin Cat up tonight as a diagnostic tool. In the meantime i'll fill in the rows with morning glories who are dying to make a run for it. Bread and roses...
sg,Probably the best organic for you is cottonseed meal. It is high in nitrogen and is also acid. I don't like wood ashes, too alkaline and full of nasty krap. Fertilize with creosote? No thanks.I was all organic for years but now I pick and choose from what I think are the best methods. LD 50 on some organic pesticides is much higher than some synthetics and they persist longer also.Kinda like voting republican, just hold your nose and do it.KK
I've done some reading on the pesticide residues on cottonseed meal and it's not as alarming as i thought it would be. The cotton industry says residues are miniscule in this pdf. Here is the counter-blurb, which does the interesting job of analyzing the cost-per-pound of N for different substances.
My gardening has to make economic sense to me, too, or else it's just an indulgence. If i can add nitrogen from vetch and this sulfur to acidify, the costs are miniscule compared to importing N from elsewhere. I understand the sulfur is very cheap bec a bunch of it is being produced as a byproduct of the oil extraction in Alberta...and it's considered and organic amendment.
I know that "organic" sourcing does not necessarily guarantee product safety any more than it means "cruelty-free", which is of greater importance to me, as is local sourcing. Your analogy to voting Republican compared to organic gardening is a good one! I would normally line up on the Dem side of things, analogous to the 'organic' methods of gardening, but sometimes it's worth crossing over if all other things aren't equal. The different pressures make for interesting conversation on a philosophical level, too.
Thanks for the input; it stirred me to do some more research.
If you've sworn off manure, and don't want to go with a conventional fertilizer, I would suggest that a short term solution would be to use an organic fertilizer (like this one http://www.territorialseed.com/product/1639/s), and a longer term solution is to grow nitrogen fixing green manures (alfalfa, clovers, vetch, peas).
A.
That sounds like it would do the trick, but bone and blood and feathers aren't my first choices, either. I'll concentrate on the nitrogen fixers you mentioned and do some mulching with high-N plant partz, maybe experiment with nitrogen smoothies from the food processor. That last one might work or else be disastrously smelly!
Nitrogen can be gotten from blood meal or fish emulsion.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I'm trying not to use slaughter products on my garden for a couple reasons, one being ethical and the other just being i'm not that keen on modern agriculture or fish-farming as a clean source of material. I'd also rather source locally if i possibly can, as part of this whole 'sustainable' schtik that is so fashionable nowadays.
I'm going to put a bag on my mower and go cut some of my pasture (if it ever stops raining) to get some clean sources of nitrogen and start layering it with all the newspaper i can ask for, courtesy of my newspaper-delivering neighbors. (Yeah, what's in that stuff? The fellow i called at the newspaper to ask about ink never called me back.)
You're right about the wood ashes being alkaline, but they also add potash, one of the ingredients my soil tested better for than the mushroom compost did. It seems i could keep using the ashes for the potash, then correct the pH with the sulfur. Any ideas on that?
Got it. I'm not a member of that club, but I respect the determination to follow through on any set of ethical guidelines.That makes it tougher to garden, though!Do you plant by any system, i.e. moon phase or anything? I partially follow the advice of an astrological planting guide (unless it doesn't coincide with my area weather and personal schedule).I decided that frost was done for the year here and yesterday and today put out about 100 pepper plants of various sorts, planted more sweet corn (some is up and looking good!), another dozen or so tomatoes, and eggplant seed in the hottest spot I've got.I'm cooling down now with a nice Young's Double Chocolate Stout, and feeling much better.I envy your rain. Since I use city water and the mountains are still holding lots of snow, I'm not worried about running short of water this year. It would be really nice to have actual water fall from the sky, though.Gone for the weekend, but I'll try to post some pictures next week of potatoes and tomatoes doing quite well for our climate.This thread and your hoophouse have been steady topics of conversation here. I'd post more if I wasn't so busy in the garden. < G >
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
The only system i plant by is crisis-avoidance; i just do the next emergency on the list that won't wait. <G>
I don't know diddly about astrological planting, but on the face of it, it seems local weather, as you say, trumps the moon's phase.
The hoophouse continues to impress me. Sugar peas are just getting out of the ground outdoors, while beans are on their third set of leaves inside. The bell peppers are just sulking though...i may have planted them too soon, even inside the HH. the good news is that i have volunteer cilantro and dill among the 'weeds' i was taking out of the raised bed that was sown with seed, carrots and beets
I'm looking forward to more pictures of your and others' gardens. I've developed a lot of interest myself in delving deeper in the mysteries of plants from the input and interest in the hoophouse and in everyone's input from all over the continent, esp the pictures.
Yous & Coonass' posts on wood ashes and potash sources are one reason I continue to recommend this thread. Greensand: my local feed store did not have any, but believe they can get it; they have kelp, but quite pricey the last couple years. A source of all this used to always be IFM in Wenatchee, WA. Going over that way? They do ship..
I just plant those potatoes, and don't look that way til they are up and needing hilling. I found the astrological calendar helps alot on storage qualities, so now I always harvest on the proper day. And once I buy the calendar, I always follow it all Spring as I plant (Stella Natura by Kimberton Hills). Interestingly, often days that are not good (weatherwise) for being out working in the garden, are also days that are marked as times to be avoided.
Looking forward to reading the link about paramagnetism in radishes....that's what this book Enlivened Rock Powders talks about alot. I also know Azomite is a great dust, and used it years ago.....need to track down a source for it again.
I checked for greensand today at several greenhouses and a feed store...no luck. I did drop $20 at one place on a Bleeding Heart, glads, and some squashes i didn't have. If i hadn't had the mutts in the bed, i'd have hauled home one of their Semi-Dwarf Elberta Peach trees. Having a retail greenhouse looked a lot like doing an art fair where people were getting in a frenzy and spending money like there was no tomorrow. While i was at the largest place, maybe a half0hour, i watched at least a thousand dollars go out.
They had a two-layer inflatable greenhouse next to a one-layer one. Even though the doors were open on all of them, i noticed when i placed my hand on the double-layered one how much warmer it felt. Cold day today, so the single layers ones feel just like outdoors. I wonder if it tempers the air on really hot days, too, or just adds to the heat load to clear out of the GH.
sg,If you have a farm co-op close give them a call. Mine used to have a big pile of greensand and you just shovel it into your truck, quite cheap.Here's my greenhouse. Made out of scrap mostly. Cypress from the swamp burn pile, old windows and glass doors. Had to buy the polycarbonate roof though.The bbq pit is for tofu!KK
Edited 6/7/2008 7:34 pm by coonass
Love your greenhouse! The windows are great. The cannas are perennials down there, i bet. I have some elephant ears and caladiums i'm chomping to plant here in tropical Montana.
I looked at a very small Victorian cottage today that was being moved off its foundation by the same peculiar outfit that moved my house a few years ago. I thought it might make a great little greenhouse and poet's corner after the rotten shingles were removed and a clear roof put on it...and then i slapped myself about the head and shoulders and got out of there before i started dialing the crazy housemover's number. If it had still had all its original diamond-pane windows, i'da been a goner...the baseboards were almost a foot tall...
I've been doing some more calling around for greensand, widening my search to feed-and-farm places in the surrounding area, as well as nurseries. One place in Missoula will order me 50# for $44. On the web, i'd pay half that for the sand, but end up paying $36 to ship dirt...got to be a better way. I'll have to ask around about co-ops...none are listed in the phone book. I'm not out of rocks to keep turning over and that's a Good Thing.
Probably a good thing the mutts kept you from coming home with an Elberta peach......they aren't much on flavor compared to all the other wonderful varieties. But that Victorian sure sounds appealing.....
Have you been able to check the lows (temps) in your HH? Only one sheet of plastic between the plants and the cold night. I've been told tomatoes do no growing below 50 degrees, just maintain themselves.....and I'd guess peppers and eggplants follow that, or perhaps like it even warmer to grow. Even when nights seem warm to us, if there is a draft thru the greenhouse, plants don't like it. I learned that here (not in FL!). I'm guessing the double walls would moderate both cold and hot.
Having a greenhouse seems to be just a first step....knowing how to use one is a little more complicated. Probably the greenhouse companies are laughing....
If the double walls were passively separated, i could go for it, but running a fan 24/7 - that just feels wrong. Last night between midnight and one o'clock when i went out to put the window inserts back in the doors, the temp inside was 42*, 5* cooler than the temp listed at the time for Stevi. Low predicted temp (Accuweather) was 42*, so i subtracted 5* from that for what i could expect, or 37*. Not freezing, but not good. Nothing frosted overnite, and i have to say the cole crops are going gangbusters in this weather. The squashes are continuing to grow - i have more flowers opening today - and the tomatoes are quickly getting away from me as other tasks get between me and those purlins. The cukes are starting to climb. Beans beautiful beans... Only the peppers look dazed and confused...and the okra is on life support. The consolation i had today at the commercial greenhouse was seeing that their okra looked fully as sucky as mine. MT is apparently never going to be the pickled-okra hub of the world... *sob*
Edited 6/8/2008 5:37 am by splintergroupie
Your plants sound similiar to mine, with the one okra that came up looking like it could USE life support. Here's a few pictures of various garden things, some of which just went thru a week of cold rain (40 degree days). I've been working at keeping things covered to give them the warmth they want....one could also just wait for Summer? to arrive, but then again, it might not. (didn't I read about global cooling and the impending ice age?)
Yes, how to do 2 layers without air blown inside to separate them......why not 2x4 construction, with plastic on each side? Still think coonass' greenhouse is a great idea.......
The pictures with the rock 'arrangements' remind me of visiting the Eden Project in Cornwall, England, in an old quarry. I'm guessing they had plenty of rock dusts to work with. <g>
And speaking of double-walled greenhouses...
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Those red sticks are stalks of rhubarb chard, place purely for decoration.
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Edited 6/9/2008 2:38 am by splintergroupie
My rocks really should be in circles....
What a lovely nestling of bubbles! Do they grow in them, too? or living space, shopping malls, and all?
Do you have floating row cover? My greenhouse stays covered in it (inside) at night, and during those cold rainy days.
Yea, all those figs....I'm getting hungry. Didn't dare ask what he did with them, I know I'd be drying or freezing the extras. They liked my livingroom, but the sun has gone north now.....would be perfect to move them into a greenhouse for summer.
There are two functional biospheres, one tropical and one temperate, but all your questions can be answered best by clicking on the link i gave for the Eden Project. The main picture on that page has some thumbnails below it with pictures of the insides of the domes.
There's a cafe there that uses the produce raised at Eden to make amazing meals, very reasonably priced instead of soaking the visitors as many exhibitions/museums tend to do. There were lots of tours of school kids, too - a hopeful sign.
What was majorly impressive to me were the touches of whimsy, all extremely well done, that lifted it above the [yawn] level of most exhibits like that that i've visited.
Spring/Summer arrived today! I peeked under the row covers, and went "Wow!". (I can stop whining about the cold weather now.)
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And found volunteer tomatoes in the protection of the hugelkultur. The biggest squash is Galeux d'Eysines, a new variety for me. Exciting to have a new and unusual one to watch for! (the iris have been there for ages).
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If your soil is real soft, a front end loader might be able to help, but with VaTom's warning, I'd think about using a back blade instead. How deep are you going? Is there a little backhoe living near you? They'd be real fast.
Edited 6/13/2008 3:23 am ET by intaglio
I have the dent in the foundation siding from the last time i hired someone to dig for me...no thanks. It sounds like hand-digging might just be simpler and not result in my paying a mechanic to fix the thing. I've tried using the back blade, but i wanted to pick the sand UP and put it on the Blumenhugel before the compost. Ah, hell, i'm young...right?Irises are so pretty....mine got terribly overgrown. I found a blueberry bush struggling for sun in that area tonight. I'm just going to pull all the survivors and black-tarp it to death...start over.
No way to keep grass out of irises. I've tried mulch, pulling (works best), and just let it grow, then sorta pull the grass stalks out so the irises look prettier. I haven't touched that patch this year, usually it doesn't get any care.
Today I started sickling the tall grass around my fruit trees and berries. ..Each year about this time, I vow to buy a mower that can do 3' tall grass...perhaps a sicklebar, or a DR brush mower. But not knowing enough about their track records, and considering my usual brown thumb with gas engines, I just keep sickling and sything. Borrowed a neighbor's sicklebar walk-behind mower years ago, and it did a great job. I've been a little interested in those Italian walk-behind 'tractors'....actually they sound wonderful....if one could find a nice used one.....
That's great. Was recently discussing moving a whole Ohio town into the immense nearby quarry, covering the whole thing with a dome.
Unclear who'd pay though, as a large part of the residents seem intent on moving away. Maybe if they didn't have those winter heating needs... PAHS works. Bury it.
What's the story on that? I visited Butchart Gardens again in '06 and i'm ever so grateful that some people have such vision...and money! It's an immense old quarry on Vancouver Island off the coast of BC, Canada, with a series of variously themed gardens that morph from one into the other as you walk around.
My late mate visited Coober Pedy in the South Australian desert where the opals are mined and the temperature is searing. He got to go inside some of the houses, which are dug out from the background rock, and found them quite comfortable.
Here's a funny from Wikipedia on Coober Pedy: The first tree ever seen in the town was welded together from scrap iron. It still sits on a hilltop overlooking the town. The local golf course - mostly played at night with glowing balls, to avoid daytime temperatures - is completely free of grass and golfers take a small piece of "turf" around to use for teeing off.
Coober Pedy I knew of, on my must-visit list if I ever convince my sailing buddy to head that direction. Arizona desert was my earliest influence, including lots of defunct mines. Always comfortable. Unlike the POS concrete block house I grew up in.
Missing Cappadocia http://www.hereorthere.com/members/mx/experience/226 was a major disappointment when we couldn't get into Turkey due to a foot and mouth epidemic the year we'd planned. That was enroute to Petra in Jordan http://www.raingod.com/angus/Gallery/Photos/MiddleEast/Jordan/Petra/ later made famous in a Raiders movie. Missed both, they also had a war that year.
Still galls me. I'll probably never complete that drive around the Mediterranean. At least we have happy memories of Tito's Yugoslavia, R.I.P. Albania wouldn't let us in, political reasons, detoured around it.
No story on the quarry. Well, they'd likely disagree, with their 150 yr history. Once a major employer, mostly automated now. My buddy was shocked he'd never taken me there. In a town of 4k, it's not like there're a large number of tourist attractions. So we swung by on the way to the Avis place.
Anyhow, we were overlooking the oldest part and musing on what could be done with it. Really 2 choices: flood it and offer waterfront property (plenty large enough for small sailboats), or build in it and cover the top. Plenty of room for the whole town. As the town often goes underwater, flooding the quarry sounded reasonable, but it would have been a problem for the continuing quarry operation. They already pump non-stop to make excavating possible.
But it's impossible to look down in there and not dream. You know what the Grand Canyon looks like from down in? Not a canyon, just a bunch of mountains towering over you. Quarry's gonna be similar, after 150 yrs of digging.
Giant hoop house? LOL
Butchart didn't load well. I'll try again later.PAHS works. Bury it.
Since this is a thread about hoops....I've got a hoops fan across the street.
jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
WOW! That's one tough dove!
I knew about Petra, but hadn't heard about Cappadocia; thanks for the tour. I'd never seen the word "tufaceous" before, so i spent an hour following the word "tufa" around the Net. I've seen the tufa towers of Mono Lake and hypertufa, but thought it was a sort of non-sense word. Not so!Hearing about the quarry flooding makes me think of Butte's Berkeley Pit, how it filled with toxic water when they stopped pumping. I hope that quarry fills, if it does, with more benign substances. I don't know if the one in Cornwall is pumped or not, but it seems it would have to be in that climate.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Berkeley Pit's problems coutesy of old mine tailings? Unknown area to me, but I wouldn't expect major groundwater problems without some help.
Rock housing isn't hoops, but the top of Italy's boot heel has a very small area know as Zona dei Trulli, centered around Alberobello (pretty tree to my linguistically-challenged BIL). Fascinating houses, peculiar to that small area. Hex signs often painted on the stone roofs, frequently cannonballs at the top. Stores, houses, barns, everything in one style. Apparently a very tight building code.PAHS works. Bury it.
In the Pit, they just took out all the ore for about a half-mile down. It had to also be continually pumped while they were stripping it. Nothing was dumped back...it's just the water seeping through all that heavily mineralized ground suddenly exposed to daylight in a big, big way. The thing is, people were alarmed bec they hadn't expected it to be so toxic. Ergo...wondering about your friend's quarry in the same vein....so to speak.
Trullis were featured on the back cover (?i think?)of a long-ago FHB as affordable housing, weren't they? Who was the crazy architect who was fiddling with them....? I can't resurrect it from the Internet and searching this site yielded nada. I think there was a doggie-trullo, too, in one of the doghouse photo essays. Clear spans with no iron...ready to try it??? <G>
Wow, just from being exposed to air? There's a whole lot I don't know about ground water. Half-mile is many times deeper than the Ohio quarry. The limestone only goes a few hundred feet. Made it appear very recyclable.
The small town has a stream running through the middle, occasionally inundating the central section. Twice in the last year. The current brainstorm is to raise a bunch of those used-to-be $60k houses, put them on $30k 4' tall foundations, then repair the water damage. My buddy was amazed too. Must be gov't money...
As I grew up on the desert, I see a hole and think "lake". Back then, Arizona had the largest per capita number of boats of any state. Probably way too many people there now for that. But I guess they still have the world's tallest fountain (Fountain Hills, where they dug up all the cactus and put it in nice little gardens- thereby necessitating irrigation).
You'd want pretty stable ground for trulli. We get a shake occasionally, I'll stick with steel. But it sure was fun to visit there. No idea one was on a FHB, would have bought that issue. I've got slides with them as virtually every structure in town, billboards hanging off the roofs.
To the west there's a small village (Calitri) where we visited a friend. The old (stone) part of town was mostly reduced to rubble from a shake. Not much over 100 miles from Alberobello. All new construction was reinforced concrete.
There are a lot of folks who believe you should build with whatever your land offers. That's how indigenous architecture came about, assuming that "permanent" structures were part of the local plan. Buffalo tepees there?
Most of us want a little more creature comfort. Trulli would be pretty chilly here. Somehow, burying one doesn't seem appropriate. PAHS works. Bury it.
http://www.greatbasinminewatch.org/hazardous.html
That's a bit on open pit mining. It's not just exposure of the rock to air, but a combo of minerals, air, water. I note that those sites made acidic water which leaches the minerals from the ore, whereas your limestone would counter that. Limestone slurry was used to counter acidic mine effluent in the Blackwater River in West Virginia.
Most of the detrimental effect of flooding or pumping limestone quarries that i could find had to do with impacting water supplies in the area and excess pollution during the process of mining, as in effluent pumped into watersheds, raising the pH and killing the species that had gotten used to living there.
The idea of rebuilding a town so the river can run through it sounds pretty dumb, yep. Houseboats as indigenous structures? <G>
I like the idea of building with indigenous materials, both to develop a regional aesthetic and also to ensure a connection with the land that [hopefully] brings the cycle of life and our responsibilities to it into nearer focus. The Indians developed the tipi which suited their nomadic lifestyle to a "Ti". The sodbusters did a version of the pit-style when they first arrived to cope with the wind and lack of trees.
That said, i grew up in a log cabin that was dark, filled with flies, and not all that warm. It was built in the Depression for not much more than the cost of a few bags of concrete for a stem wall and a keg of nails. Wooden fruit boxes supplied the 'paneling' in the room dividers; traveling salesmen's sample books of oilcloth provided the wallpaper. It would really have benefited from a deep layer of petroleum-based foamboard in the roof instead of simply layers of spent fan bag out of the mines!!!
Perhaps things such as Cloud's domes and your buried house are a reference to no reference in the earlier sense of a local aesthetic, but rather an homage to industry, to concrete and steel, the modern era's analogue to 'place'. OTOH, perhaps it is only a matter of degree, not kind, in how much we adapt to our surroundings compared to how much we make our surroundings adapt to us. Even a HH messes with the natural order of things.
Took off on a tangent there....no sleep last night. Thunderboomers, freaked-out dogs...i unplugged all the electronic stuff that i'm partial to. Then it snowed. Outdoor temp at 2 PM is up to 52*, inside HH is 72*.
The idea of rebuilding a town so the river can run through it sounds pretty dumb, yep. Houseboats as indigenous structures? <G>
Not quite. Avoiding heating costs was the primary issue in relocation. Waterfront lots avaiable if the quarry was flooded. No relocation.
Perhaps things such as Cloud's domes and your buried house are a reference to no reference in the earlier sense of a local aesthetic, but rather an homage to industry, to concrete and steel, the modern era's analogue to 'place'. OTOH, perhaps it is only a matter of degree, not kind, in how much we adapt to our surroundings compared to how much we make our surroundings adapt to us. Even a HH messes with the natural order of things.
Now, that's brilliance. <deep bow, putting on shades>PAHS works. Bury it.
SG: The idea of rebuilding a town so the river can run through it sounds pretty dumb, yep. Houseboats as indigenous structures? <G>
VAT: Not quite.
I was referrring to what you said about putting the houses in the way of the water on taller foundations. Did i misunderstand what the $30K was for?
Glad you liked the blurb. One of the advantages of being uneducated is the extremely rare original thought, LOL!
My apologies, missed that. I'm slow sometimes. Others have opined that it's more than sometimes. No point in arguing.
$30k was to jack up the house and install the taller foundation. More to fix the flooded house. Then they're still in the flood neighborhood. As you surmised.
I trust you don't mind being quoted. Sphere didn't. LOL
"uneducated"... my ####.PAHS works. Bury it.
Interesting architecture! The words 'Moorish/Spanish' came to mind. Is there any connection/influence?
Don't think I ever read any guesses as to the origins. Tiny area, not coastal. Doubt there's international influence.
Over on Sardinia they've got nuraghi scattered around. Multi-story dry-laid stone structures. 1800-1500 BCE. They like to say the technique came from Odysseus. http://www.ilportalesardo.it/archeo/percorsi/nuraghi.htm is a fast-loading site with a bunch of photos, if no English text. Crusader fortresses are similar.
If any of y'all bump into any Sardinian white wine, grab it. Has character unlike any Italian white I've known. Recently, a supermarket in Michigan surprised me with a bottle (I always look), grape unknown to me. My Ohio hosts were amazed, generally disinterested in white wines. Sardinian vernaccia is seemingly unrelated to the Tuscan variety, which was Michelangelo's favorite. Both DOC.
I digress... PAHS works. Bury it.
Last night between midnight and one o'clock when i went out to put the window inserts back in the doors, the temp inside was 42*, 5* cooler than the temp listed at the time for Stevi. Low predicted temp (Accuweather) was 42*, so i subtracted 5* from that for what i could expect, or 37*. Not freezing, but not good.
Maybe we should trade locations. It was in the 90's all weekend. Right now (nearly midnight) it is still 81. While I do like the sunshine, I'm not fond of hot weather.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Here's an update picture on the squash & hugelkultur....back under covers again for this cold rainy weather. I had forgotten how slowly things grow here in Springtime, but all these gardening pictures from more tropical climates is rubbing it in.
They look more than happy in that tunnel. Are those cornstalks? I always had trouble getting those and sunflowers stalks to break down so i would burn them in a bonfire; they seem ideal for Hugelkultur.If nothing unusual happens tomorrow (HA!), i should get my Blumenhugel constructed and planted and pics taken.
Yes, those are cornstalks...kinda artsy, but they won't break down on top like that. If I had planned it, they would be on the bottom, but I'll just keep adding more green material (weeds).
I found pictures from my first garden here, when I tilled it with a neighbor's Kubota with tiller attachment......outside the garden was a huge heap of all the stuff that goes into a hugelkultur. Of course that heap only got the rains, no watering, so it stayed fairly large for at least 5 years! I bought a chipper one time, thinking to chip up cornstalks and raspberry canes.....but that was alot of work, when they break down fine in proper conditions (moist, wet, dirt). Raspberry canes go on the hillside where knapweed grows, where they shade the soil, help grass come in, and eventually get chipped up by the bushhog when mowing.
sg,The ashes will contribute to an instant ph change while the sulfur takes a long time. Sulfur has to be converted to sulphuric acid by soil bacteria. If you keep mixing ash and sulfur you're gonna build up salts from the acid-base reaction.Greensand, granite dust, kelp are all better sources of potash. Wood ash also contains mercury, lead and arsenic.KKSwitched to 8-8-8
HAH! Your garden already looks like what a MT garden might look like on a very sunny day in late August! Beautiful!
I've been looking for greensand since i started reading about it, but i haven't seen it for sale anywhere. In fact, i haven't see ANY of the 'rock dusts' i've read about in books or this thread. I'm going to have to start letting my fingers walk through the Yellow Pages to find such locally, if they exist.
You've spurred me to read more about wood ashes and you're quite right about the instant raising of pH bec of the very small particle size. I suppose i got the idea of adding them from reading something from a source that was oriented to acidic soil, like your area. Some sources say the ashes are a source of 'good' trace minerals, too, and that the heavy metals are in small amounts and bound in such a way as to not be available to plants. Other sources say ashes are useful in breaking down acidic substances like leaves or pine needles in compost.
In any case, the over-riding concern would be drastically raising the pH, already a problem, so ashes are out as a soil amendment in this garden from now on. I'll experiment putting them in the gravel in the driveway where i'm trying to get stuff NOT to grow.
I read fairly constant praise of the greensand, but varied for the granite dust. This was an interesting thread on the latter. (I especially enjoyed the "paramagnetism" experiment with radishes.) The thing about granite dust is...i'm sitting on a terminal moraine called "Illinois Bench" from a glacier that ground its way over granite to get here so it seems like it'd be full of decomposed granite. I should do a pH test on soil i've never used in the raised beds, i.e. soil to which i've never added wood ashes, to see what the background pH really is.
I found this table to convert inorganic fertilizer amounts to organic. That's also a pretty interesting site to read, plus they have some intriguing species for sale.
<"Wood ash also contains mercury, lead and arsenic.">
I'm curious...from a technical viewpoint, how does the mercury, lead, and arsenic get in there? By-products of combustion? (assuming one is simply burning fir or tamarac wood, and of course not knowing how close to a highway the trees were).
Your greenhouse is great..solid, lasting, and windproof (reasonably). What do you grow in it, and what seasons do you use it, down South?
intaglio,Arsenic ect are present in the wood, burning just concentrates them. One or two applications of ash on an acid soil is ok but more than that shifts the ph. Same effect as over liming. Greenhouse is full of citrus, starting and cutting beds, some house plants. Use it year round.Picking beans, squash, cukes , corn, blueberries, tomatoes, peppers out the garden. Figs , watermelon, cantalopes soon.KK
Your harvest.....I'm envious right now. Do you get a long hot spell in summer when nothing but black-eyed peas and okra grow?
I had a little crop of figs on my indoor/outdoor plants, but now that they are on the deck, they think Fall is coming, and have dropped some leaves. (and fruit).
I'll go back to just keep wood ashes for use on ice. This year I sprinkled some under fruit trees, and on parts of the garden. Think I'd better get a soil test kit and check my ph.
Harvest does slow down from 3-4 5 gallon buckets a day to 1 or 2. I'm a little burnt out by then.Last year I kept track and figured I gave away 2000 ponds of veggies.My 3 main fig trees take up about 20x20. Can pick a gallon or two a day and the birds get even more. I also have apples, pears, plums, guavas, goumis, jujubes, pomgranites, grapes, pecans, mulberries, citrus and sometimes bananas.KK
Do you preserve much of that or just use it fresh and give away the rest?
I had figs fresh off the tree in San Jose, CA. I thought i liked figs before, but oh my....
Sounds like figs like it better where you are than they did in even FL...and apples were tricky down there, too. Just got too hot and steamy sometimes.
On the goumi, do you have two? I have one, and it hasn't fruited, tho it flowers profusely. The nursery wasn't sure if two were needed, said they got fruit, but had several. How large do they get? Mine is about 5' tall, and I prune it back quite abit (will prune it even more so if it doesn't make fruit!). It's over the strawberries, and steals alot of water, tho they seem happy.
Your bananas and citrus are in the greenhouse? I've no idea why, but I started a few K Early seedlings....my favorite, and not sure if I can buy dwarf trees of them, altho dwarf would sure make any sense at all, in this climate, hauling them in and out.
Entirely possible to do better. Bear in mind that 6 mil poly also replaces ice&water, roofing felt, shingles/copper/whatever. And has considerably less roofing labor.
What about a roll of EPDM? Costs more than poly, but should be more durable and have a longer life.
With the tornado sirens wailing last night, I sure wished at the time I was living in an earth sheltered home! ;)
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
What about a roll of EPDM? Costs more than poly, but should be more durable and have a longer life.
No need that I can discern. No longer life or durability, so long as you don't puncture the poly or leave it in the sun. Scrap carpet protects it. Also discourages burrowing critters.
I've never seen EPDM in 20' x 100' rolls. Fewer seams are better.
No idea if a tornado could pick up our 240 ton roof, but I'd have to see it to believe it. Large trees falling on it caused no damage.
You're correct about it being very comforting when the weather's really bad. Gotta be extreme before we even notice.
PAHS works. Bury it.
I've been investigating pond liners lately and found EPDM comes in rolls even 50 x 100; that one's about $3K. I think you need more than one person to unload it. <G>
I wrestled a 400 sq ft piece of EPDM onto a roof once. That was large enough, without hydraulics.
$3k sounds cheap for that size, maybe it was thin. Don't imagine I'll ever have any need to buy EPDM again. Bentonite's my preferred waterproofing, not that I've bought any for more than a few years
Commercial tomatoes in Ohio were < 5" tall Wednesday. I mentioned to my buddy that he was obviously not too late. Haven't picked, but I have tomatoes here. Started chopping bolting cilantro and arugula to help the tomatoes today. We're up to 3' now. No sign of organization.
Apropos of absolutely nothing, here's a front yard with angels and gargoyles. Shrine, I'm told. I love visiting Ohio.PAHS works. Bury it.
God Bless America, eh? I was walking up a trail near Missoula that was lined with angels of all shapes and sizes...no Red/White/Blue, though. That's 45 mil. thickness on the EPDM. I think the reason it's less expensive per sq. ft. is just not having to cut it. I found that any custom cut sizes were hugely more expensive per sq. ft. so i'm modifying my requirements to use the readily available 20x20 size. I was going to use a hard-shell stock tank for my cistern/pond, but i uneartherd (heh heh) some cracking problems on the poly ones and the steel was about $400 for a 1000 gal. tank...and i still hadn't figured out how to get a 10' diameter tank on my Tacoma. The poly will be much easier to get in my hot little hands for less $$$ (about $200 for a size large enough to hold 1000+ gallons). I'll use some sort of border of wood or cement around it to mount the floats and switches i'll need. The sand i dig out can go on the new BlumenHugel! <G>
Love that house. Shrine to a departed daughter, which doesn't explain the gargoyle presence. Interesting little town (4k), with a mini-cathedral. Whose basement has glass cases of all the cast off devices true believers no longer needed. Crutches, braces, glasses, pretty much whatever. Major celebration every August.
My front yard's nothing like that, has a muffler garden. Just to the left of the shiitake logs, which every mushroom fancier should have. Hoop house not required.
60 mil EPDM is what I put on my mother's almost level roof. When I was looking, pre-internet, nobody I found offered a sheet that was large enough. I bought from Resource Conservation who did the seaming. Long time, no leaks.
Haven't priced septic tanks lately, but they used to be a bargain for anybody wanting catchment. Dug a hole for a 1500 gal one several years ago. Filled from roof gutters, he stuck a submersible pump in it. Just gotta make certain it won't float on you.
After you've accomplished hauling that 500 bf oak log on your Tacoma you'll know how to handle a dinky 10' tank... And happy 37th anniversary to us.PAHS works. Bury it.
I thought about a septic tank, but my 1000 gal one with delivery was $500 about 8 years ago. Setting one now would probably mean some pretty deep ruts in the ground and taking down some fence, another reason i'd rather not call the well-drillers back either.
I'd shied away from the EPDM in the beginning toward a hard-sided pond, but pretty much i'm stymied by transporting one large enough to do the trick. I don't have rocks or roots to deal with and the EPDM reports, like yours, have been favorable, as is my own experience, so i think i'll go with what i can lift on my ownsome. I have a leftover sheet of the underground-rated ply i used on the wood foundation that i can use as a backer on two sides to mount the controls. I'm leaning toward a right-angle joined by an arc for its shape, echoing the coved ceilings and archways in my 40s-era house. Still very preliminary. Luckily it's still raining cats and dogs and elephants while i pond-er longer.
My entry way is a shrine to house parts i'll use someday. Right now it's littered with the recycled galvy and copper pipe i've been using to make trellis and a set of 5-step stairs i had made for a friend who forgot to pay me. They'll fit just fine on my deck, it turns out, with a concrete pad for a first step. Nothing goes to waste around here, but i think i'd eventually prefer gargoyles...and maybe a nice little temple to go with it.
I'd shied away from the EPDM in the beginning toward a hard-sided pond
I excavated one for a neighbor here. EPDM worked great as the liner, they grow fish and frogs. Wasn't clear to me if you were talking about a pond or a cistern, maybe I missed something awhile back.
Recycling happens here too. The scrapyard steel stairs, that my house client decided against using, will work fine near my lumber shed, once I finish a retaining wall to set it against. Heavy damn thing, must have come out of a school or public building, 5' wide. Hydraulics and I are good friends.
My brief experience with stove ash wasn't good. We're generally acid here, and I figured the potash wouldn't hurt. Added an ash layer to my compost. That's the only time I didn't grow worms in the compost. Not to give you worm envy...
Pictures? Sure. And picked the first bowl of snow peas while I was up there. Everybody's looking happy. Tomatoes are OK, but some weren't tall enough to match the bolting cilantro, which I'm whacking off. How many seeds do I need anyway? Not that many. Cages are 5' tall, a couple of tomatoes are over the top, bunch of different greens fight for the under-space. Tomatoes and snow peas compete for the sun.
Once again they failed to include our place on the garden tour.... LOL
Gargoyles are nice. All I've got are a few steel pipe creations. PAHS works. Bury it.
You guys have made a believer out of me with the wood ashes except for this little nagging thought about how a forest can regenerate so darn fast right after a forest fire. I'll have to gently pull Basswood's chain on this one to see if he has a teacherly explanation since he's half scientist, half fireman, and half woodworker.
I'm always surprised at your pics how shaded it all looks, but how well the stuff looks that normally needs full sun. Is it really that surrounded by trees or do you only come out as the sun is going down? <G>
New snow on the hills around here today. I went out at midnight with the flashlight - and a coat! - and put the window inserts back in both HH doors.
Abotu the pond and cistern...i'm just looking for a good way to hold about 1000-1500 gals of water for irrigation. I don't care if it's a swimming pool or pond or cattle tank or septic tank, but it has to be pretty much DIY and not that expensive, in case my idea doesn't work. The idea is that if i de-couple the well pump, which is prone to pulling sand whenever i've used it in a system with solenoid valves, from the pump for the sprinklers, i won't ruin my well and well pump, yet still be able to have plantings using my underground sprinkler system that cost me a bundle to put in so that i couuld leave home and everything would take care of itself automatically. Hah!
Edited 6/7/2008 5:50 pm by splintergroupie
I was raised in Arizona. You learn early to stay out of the sun. Also a troglodyte, you knew that. Or was I missing a neck-nibble hint? <VBG>
Around here, about everybody loves grass. Riding lawnmowers are a huge business, except for those with enough wealth to hire the guys with the really interesting mowers, $15-20K types. Unless there's so much grass they use giant batwing mowers pulled by $75k tractors. 24' swath? Lime everything every couple of years.
That whole picture seemed bizarre to me, forests are the natural thing here.
We've got 80' trees within 12' of the house, on the S side. Not 1 or 2, a forest. Also on the E, N, and W. Very little summer sun gets in here, I have to be judicious. Nothing gets full sun. The raspberries get nearly none, but I took a good look at where they were previously thriving, very similar.
But as you see, it's working. As are several other things that I've been assurred wouldn't. You know the old saw: "Instructions: just another man's opinion."
About wood ashes, I have almost no opinion. Just didn't like it when I tried it. Compost's doing well without. Certainly the plants seem happy. No potato bugs so far.
Any billboard sign companies near you? Last I heard they were real happy to give away used vinyl sheets, not difficult to seam, pretty tough. Folks I knew using them were blowing balloons for thinshell concrete spraying. Pond liner oughta work.
Then if you had somebody with surplus fill dirt... Make a hill near the HH, plant the pond in it, use gravity water flow. Works when the grid's down. Unless you need runoff to fill the pond? I've often been a dirt broker here, directing movement from one person's surplus to somebody else's deficit. Everybody wants to minimize hauling costs.
Alternatively, I've got a nifty book about making your own ferro-cement tank. Written by a guy in Calif. who's built a bunch of 'em. Either above grade or buried, which would seem considerably more practical in your climate. "Build Your Own Ferro-cement Water Tank" by Donnie Schatzberg. An address in the book if you have trouble finding him. Last I knew, you had to buy direct from him.
2000 gal tank requires: 20- 2'x8' sheets of galvanized lathe, 12- 20' #4 rebar, 1 cu yd sand, 6 bags of Portland, 15 gal sealant or 3- 50 lb sacks. On top of a 1.07 cu yd slab.
Got more time than money?
PAHS works. Bury it.
making your own ferro-cement tank
I'm not going the cement route in case my idea bombs and i take the fallback xeriscaping option of letting my yard turn into concrete on its own 6 months of the year. I lost one $10K knee smashing an old chimney to bits so i'd rather not make any concrete monstrosities i might have to remove.
Any billboard sign companies near you? Last I heard they were real happy to give away used vinyl sheets...
The idea of using vinyl billboard material in place of EPDM gives me goosebumps. That is so much the kind of off-label use i adore that i'm going to be on the phone for a Monday morning begathon to see what i can get for free and keep out of the landfill. Or i can just keep an eye out for a Republican political advertisement that needs moonlight modification!
Make a hill near the HH, plant the pond in it, use gravity water flow.
I don't need the pond for watering the HH. The HH is easily managed with a hose from the yard hydrant to the HH manifold i showed earlier. I have a manual timer on it now so i can turn it on for an hour every couple days or so, depending on the temps, and walk away...easy peasy.
I have plenty of electricity and water, it's just that there's something about having the solenoid-operated valves directly connected to my pipes that shakes all the sand loose in the well. I've tried connecting the parts up somewhat differently 3X now, three different years thinking the ground has perhaps had time to sette, but the filter always jams with fine sand as soon as the valves open and shut. I've changed out the solenoids, too, so the next step at this point is just to use separate pumps for in-flow and out-go. If that doesn't work...probably have to work on the well or just settle for not using the underground sprinklers i slaved to install.
Pictures taken Sunday, June 8th, of one garden with tomatoes, potatoes, and barely visible peppers.Pics of another garden with corn coming up and strawberries in the background.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
What do you still have under row cover, and why? Is that to thwart bugs/moths or for frost? I saw a field of "professional" corn last Sunday that was only just out of the ground, on the valley floor, so your season is quite ahead of ours.
A couple of those shots give a much better feel of the immensosity of the garden than the closer-ups did. The tomatoes are looking great! Nice that you could hire that gardener-guy to help out. Is that a bucketful of that natural nitogen fertilizer next to that tomato???
My maters are as big as yours, happy to say. The peas that were planted outdoors three weeks ago are just now poking up. Beans planted in the HH germinated in 4 days. Outside, the scarlet runners i put in next to the new potato patch fence ten days ago aren't anywhere in sight. Two potato plants are just showing their scared little leaf tips.
I didn't open the HH today at all, it was that cold. It's still raining...a good sign that i can still hear the precip coming down, actually. I keep telling myself it will make digging the hole for the pond that much easier. Too Pollyanna?
The 15-y.o. kid who started out being good help in April for $10/hour called this evening to tell me he was ready to work again if i would come pick him up bec his parents didn't want to spend the money on gas to bring him. Interesting theory of labor...
Took the last of the row cover off minutes after the pic was taken. It was still on due to my schedule rather than any gardening reason.The buckets have water in them. They are still sitting there waiting for "that gardener guy" to get his rear in gear and put them away.The tomatoes you refer to: Ones in the HH? I'm hoping so since those plants in the pictures were grown with my row-cover-over-buckets-of-water method, which I'd like to think partly takes the place of a HH.The pictures are of about a fourth of my total garden space.Know any ways to get rid of an ant hill?Cold and wet, huh? It's forecast to be 90* here today with gusts up to 40mph. I'm having to water nearly every day. I need to get on to building some pepper shades soon. Some of my pepper plants are already a bit sunburned.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Looks like you may have to batten down: May have snow headed your way!Eastern WA. is getting it this morning.Weird!
What i woke up to...
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Edited 6/10/2008 4:48 pm by splintergroupie
The HH today:
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Edited 6/10/2008 4:57 pm by splintergroupie
I scattered some ant hills that were being built right where i needed to be, but otherwise they are a mixed blessing. I don't have much of a "catastropillar" problem bec the ants cart them off, a big plus. The major problem with ants has been their aphid-farming and i've headed that off with the Tanglefoot. I sprinkled DE around the bases of the trees when ants piled out of the ground when i was pulling up sod from around the boles. The DE didn't seem to bother them much and as soon as it got wet was entirely ineffective. I've read about the benefits of ants tilling the soil, so i'm not willing to go jihad on them yet, though i have lots and lots of them. I've heard boiling water will ruin their day, but i haven't gotten that mad at them yet to engage in outright warfare, so i've just been working at the deterrent level. What are they doing to you? Yes, my tomatoes that are as big as yours are all in the HH. Do you sell any produce or is all the huge garden of yours for personal consumption? I've been having grand ideas about the farmer's market with the imminent arrival of Chuck's tiller in my life and slateman's earlier shots of the woman selling bedding plants in Maine. In Maine!For the watering issue, you might experiment with some newspaper mulch if you can get it down and dirt tossed on to it before it blows away! The newspaper is ugly as sin, but i'm quite impressed with how it holds the moisture in the HH and smothers the weeds. I'm going to have to buy ball valves for the sprinkling manifold i contrived so as to shut the lines to the newspaper-mulched areas when i need to add water to the unmulched broadcast-seeded beds (carrots, beets). I was cross with it for blowing around, but it's settled in place now and doing a fine job, though it wouldn't please Lady Bird Johnson. It has the advantage of not adding weed seed as straw/hay does nor does it insulate against needed early heat. Black plastic would do this as well or better, but it can be a struggle to pull the old plants through the plastic at clean-up time. I like that the newspaper is compostible. Both are recycled (plastic is from discarded lumber wraps, not bought new), so no advantage there. I recently used entire newspapers like 'books' of straw in the pathways next to the HH on the outside, areas that were getting away from me. I placed potted plants on the 'books' to hold them down, and they sit comfortably under the overhang of the 'roof' so they get rain-watered. I have three roses i brought back from the dead ($2 each at Lowe's close-out of bare-root) by placing them in that sheltered location on the east side of the HH.
Edited 6/10/2008 4:54 pm by splintergroupie
I have only one ant hill in a bad location. I've grown tomatoes and potatoes near them, but if I get to close they kill whatever is there. I think they release some nasty stuff to keep plants away. As for what I could do about the little buggers, I'm following the "make friends with coyote" method. I allow them space and hope they don't get worse. A guy I know used to live down in McElmo Canyon is sw Colorado. He liked to grow watermelon. Coyote likes watermelon, too. He tried everything he could think of to keep coyote out, and finally settled the problem by enlarging the watermelon patch by 50% and ignoring coyote.So far I have only given away produce and starts and houseplants. Part of the stuff from our garden goes straight to our friends who help in the garden part of the time. DW and I have the notion that somehow we'll turn our gardening addiction into a business over time and we're working in that direction. In the meantime we have lots of friends and now two adult couples (son&wife&son&girlfriend) that will gladly accept anything and everything we'll feed them (and about all the tomato, pepper, etc. starts I can start in the spring). I have the notion to shoot for canning about 200 jars of salsa and 200 jars of tomato based pasta sauce this year. We'll see. I also have an old friend from high school who runs a community garden in their church yard in Missouri. That's of interest to me and so is just giving the extra to the food bank. Fortunately, we have the luxury of not having to make money from our gardening right away. I have been looking online at various greenhouse products and have followed carefully your construction description (which I like and appreciate). At some time we plan to also build an all winter passive solar greenhouse of concrete, etc., but that gardener guy hasn't yet finished the other projects he's started.We did one area last year with layers of newspaper with rocks laid on to hold them down. It worked, but was a pita when it came to removing the rocks. This year we put down purchased weed barrier (Sams Club). It's inexpensive and easy to use. I'm hoping it will last multiple years.I use most of our newspaper in compost of some sort. A lot of it I shred with an electric shredder and use for worm bedding which then winds up in the garden.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I recalled you said you were shredding paper for worms. I've been finding a few more in the beds lately...seems to be a good sign. Does the shredding take forever? Seems like it would...? I'm going to try some different methods with this resource since it is so abundant to me. The thing about making friends with Coyote us that a few watermelon are a small price for having the mice and deer kept under control, too. No one around here complained about all the deer until they'd exterminated all the coyotes and wolves...screwy...Good luck with the crass materialism of making a living in the garden. I'm going to dip my toe locally this year, see how it goes. I already have the canopy and all from doing art fairs.
I have red wiggler worms, not nightcrawlers. I started the worm bed with worms from another gardener. Most kitchen garbage and canning garbage goes to the worms. Some garden waste, too. (such as pumpkins left out for fall admiration until they finally freeze solid) You should see what a few thousand worms will do to a pile of damp shredded paper.Yes, it takes awhile to shred the paper. I shredded all our paper for a few months last winter, but gave up and sent some to recycling this spring. Counting the local fish-wraps, we take five newspapers. You don't have to shred newspaper to bed worms in it, but you may have to at least tear it up some.As with coyote, same with snake.>> Good luck with the crass materialism of making a living in the garden.I'm sure we'll make a killing. < G >Something about this conversation makes me think of Dersu the Trapper by VK Arseniev. It's a book you might like. Was a best-seller in Russia right before the Bolshevics.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Can those worms live completely or mostly on shredded newspaper? I have an unlimited supply of newspaper and could stick the bag on my lawnmower and whack some alfalfa in addition. Do you suppose that would support them or does it get more complicated? I have very little garden waste otherwise.
Will you weigh in on the ability of worms to compost a diet of almost all newspaper?
I was recently reading about that in regard to the instructions for my little worm factory( the stacked bins for concentrating "wormiculture" and the by-products): IIRC (and I'll go back and look at that website at my leisure), the worms need food, like vegetable matter, coffee grounds, a bit of soil....those kinds of things....the newspaper is just one component that provides cellulose, water retention and bulk.Newspaper only and you'll probably just starve out the worms.
Thanks for that. I'll do some more research before i start worm farming, formally or just in a pile. I'm still muddy on the worm/wiggler division, so i have lots to learn.
No. They need food. The paper is primarily bedding.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Thanks. I'll need to find out if things like grass will [mostly] do, or if i have to find an alt source of food for them.
I checked at the local brewery, not even close to opening yet, and they already have a taker for the spent grain. Living off other people's junk is becoming more challenging!
My understanding is that the red worms do "eat" wood in their natural environment. They do consume paper, but can't live on just that.What I observe happening in the worm bed is a combination of composting and worms eating and pooping (can I say that here?) If the bacteria weren't at work decomposing the veggie matter, the worms couldn't live.Keeping them is very easy. We have a plastic container in the kitchen where onion ends, grain and vegie leftovers, and coffee grounds, etc get tossed. I take it to the worms whenever it approaches full. Once you get a worm bed established you can go literally weeks without feeding them. It doesn't have to be big, but of course if you want to compost lots of paper...They can't dry out. I water them once a week or so in the summer and way less in the winter.I may be head in a direction you don't want to go in, but how about finding quality clean poop, mixing in the massive newspaper, adding worms and water, and wait and see?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
how about finding quality clean poop, mixing in the massive newspaperFind the clean poo would be challenging, but i could make inquiries to see who has animals on pasture only. That's why i was wondering about just adding alfalfa to the mix, do a 'gastric by-pass'. I don't know if the intestinal bacteria are needed by the worms or the newspaper for breakdown, but i wouldn't think it necessary.I'm still intrigued with the composting bins for companion animal poo. I've been burning and burying, but if it could be composted and returned to the tree roots (i just wouldn't trust it on the garden), that would be a much better solution than what i'm currently doing. I could get mountains of cat poo from the folks whose herd i serviced last week: 14 indoor cats make a startling amount of krap!
Edited 6/11/2008 7:08 pm by splintergroupie
I just have a pile under a tree on the edge of the property. I add shredded paper, water, and you know what. I've never removed anything from that pile, but the tree it's under seems really happy. You never really have to take anything away.No, the worms don't need anything from an animal to thrive and make fertilizer for you. Cut alfalfa or any other green matter you trust should be just fine. If you have enough water you can grow any crop that seems to like your location and dump it all into the worm pile. I planted extra squash and pumpkin this year with that (and pet food) in mind.What do you do with the fall vegetation that remains after the crops are picked?If you want good manure just take a drive way up a back road where there are cattle on summer graze. Gather their pies and away you go. I know, I can't get off the manure thing! It provides easy nitrogen which could be used to cook all that newspaper. I'm used to range cow poop being readily available. You mean you don't have a bunch of cowboy buddies?!?!? < G >I read that someone asked Dave Foreman ( Earth First! ) what he thought of cattle on National Forest property. He said he'd made a solemn vow to personally eat each and every one of them."Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."~ Voltaire
Edited 6/11/2008 9:15 pm by hasbeen
<<What do you do with the fall vegetation that remains after the crops are picked?>>I've composted it, but it doesn't amount to much, mostly squash and tomato vines. Carrot tops amount to nothing, i use all the beets and greens. Cole crop leaves go to dog food. (Try it cooked...mine like it even more than green beans and it's easier to get a bunch of it. They DO NOT like beets at all!)I've got four acres so i think putting the grass catcher on the mower sounds easiest of all ways to collect some greenery. I have a neighbor down the lane who sold her horses in 2005 - might go check out her pasture. I found that Tordon lasted three years, so it might be leached out now. Although...the last time i was by there, i don't recall weeds growing i the pen they'd been in...nah, maybe not. I'll have to change my name to "Pattie". <g>
No sweet corn?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Eventually i'll grow corn. I do love it and the one year i grew it, share-cropping, at the neighbors it was fabulous. The fenced garden area right now is too small for a corn patch and i couldn't grow it without protection from the muttinskis. Dirt would be nice, too...i'll have to make some more of that out of the Gobi Desert here, LOL!
I have only one ant hill in a bad location. I've grown tomatoes and potatoes near them, but if I get to close they kill whatever is there. I think they release some nasty stuff to keep plants away.
Saw some nature program where they had some kind of ant that lives ina jungle. They actually prune their surrounding area to fit their needs. The group just attacks any new plants to keep them from growing.jt8
"If we don't put effort into creating what we want, we must then put effort into coping with what we have." --EPNIA
Doesn't a PAHS house get complicated in areas with radon? Seems the simplest solution to radon is to simply get up above it, and insulate well. Houses here with basements will have it, and typical solutions involve lots of pipes and stacks and vents and fans.
Doesn't a PAHS house get complicated in areas with radon?
Just like any house with a basement. Which really needs ventilation, even if most don't get it. With adequate ventilation, radon's a moot point. You do that when you ventilate under your raised house. Dilution's the key, whether indoors or out.
My slab was poured with an eye to radon remediation, unnecessary (in this moderate risk area).
Eliminating a basement for fear of radon strikes me as silly. It's too easy/cheap to deal with the issue, rather than give up what I consider a major asset. PAHS works. Bury it.
Well, I was wrong about gypsum....Now I've gotta go transport some livestock, but when I get back this afternoon or evening, I'll post the facts....nothing but the facts!It is still safe to put in a garden....just doesn't do much.But I've got some good stuff on soil ph and it's effect on plant health/growth.
<"Dilution's the key, whether indoors or out.">
Most houses get too chilly with enough ventilation to drop the radon levels down in winter. But perhaps a PAHS house has enough mass of heat that windows can be open more in winter? I always have windows open, and in winter my radon level stays at a 2....in summer the lowest I've seen, in hot spells with windows open, is a 1. (they consider there is no safe level, so I'd much prefer it were a 0). When I got this place, the house was a 4, and I've done some work on adding passive venting/ventilation. Still, since the source of the radon is the earth, and we concentrate it by putting a box on top of it......it seems one could avoid the issue by living in a treehouse! Actually, I've never plugged my radon detector in outdoors, to check what outdoor air reads, just assumed it wouldn't register.
Most houses get too chilly with enough ventilation to drop the radon levels down in winter.
Here too. Average 12" of snow. With PAHS' free heat we can be inefficient to a point, but open windows' loss would exceed the rate we can draw heat from the mass.
At the risk of over-staying this soapbox perch... We don't open windows, in fact almost none are operable (major savings). The traditional PAHS plan that Splintie noted is for earth tube passive ventilation. That frightened me, so I put in a tiny active ventilation system. Which includes an air-to-air heat exchanger. Something I cobbled from some old Popular Science plans that turned out to be upwards of 90% efficient (my crude measurements). So we do a total air change every 2 hrs (.5 ACH) with very little heat penalty.
Which in our climate, means summer too. We'd be thinking ac if we brought in summer temps. One should consider the whole house package, not just parts. Others here have opined that we're grossly over-ventilating. Not an issue with PAHS. Strikes me as an easily affordable luxury, fresh air.
My light-weight sphere-living friend presumably has no radon with almost no ground contact, similar to your treehouse. If that's the primary consideration, a reasonable solution. Don't know what he has for ventilation, but I expect he relies on leaks. Hardly efficient.
We don't have any radon issue here though, and guests not infrequently remark on the quality of our indoor air. A little better than outdoors as we filter out pollens, smoke, ... Test your radon outdoors. Inside here is about like sitting outside your place on a calm day (absent pollens, etc.).
Now if I can just make it passive, safely, I'll be tickled. Looking forward to the Atlanta experiment. PAHS works. Bury it.
"My light-weight sphere-living friend presumably has no radon with almost no ground contact, similar to your treehouse. If that's the primary consideration, a reasonable solution. Don't know what he has for ventilation, but I expect he relies on leaks. Hardly efficient."
Sphere-living?? What kind of a structure is this? A well insulated space station? not a bad idea.......
Growing up in FL, I guess I want to always smell the outdoor air. Wonder if the air exchange system would be able to keep the radon levels low. I always have windows open, just use the radon tester to monitor the levels. Not really easy things to fix in older homes....some decide to move after getting a high reading. I had it tested before I bought, so knew what I had to deal with. But for an addition, I'm considering ways to totally avoid the problem.
Raspberry maze? Gotta train them so you can pick.
I've grown raspberries for years. The trick is to remove the dead canes (the ones that fruited) in late fall or early spring and then in spring remove most of the remaining live canes, leaving 4 or 5 nice sturdy canes per linear foot. Don't let the row get more than 18" wide. I've never needed to stake them here in Maine. If they get too tall, the usual technique is to make a "T" shape out of some pipes or 2x4s at each end of the row and run wires from each arm of the T at about 42" above the ground and keep the canes inside the wires, so the long ones are supported.
Did somebody say aquaculture?
I'm smallerizing your construction photos and posting them inline for the digitally challenged. I have no idea why it works, but if i use Irfanview to save my photos at 99% of the original, as i did yours, it reduces the file size tremendously.
Why so deep/steep? I was up until dawn reading about ponds...and the thing they all go on about is safety for kids and pets. Whose place is that? I don't recognise it as your house, but i might be wrong.
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Edited 5/23/2008 6:40 pm by splintergroupie
Those are pix from Darcie and David's back yard in Gainesville. The garden is all around it. They terraced it with concrete block and filled the terraces, as much as they could, with compost and get good results. David buys really weird seeds -- leaf crops from Asia, etc. The pond is actually going to be connected to several branches with appropriate water plantings. Since David has undergraduate degrees in both biology and chemistry, I guess he knows what it all will take for sustainability. Their property is already fenced, so that isn't an issue. Funny thing is, you don't need to isolate a "fish pond". The part he is working on is going to be the deepest part. They do have a lot of raccoons to contend with, so maybe the deep part helps keep the fish a safe distance from them. I haven't been briefed on the waste treatment or equipment aspect of it, so don't ask.I'm completely ignorant of Irfanview. Were my pix too large? They looked about right on my computer at 500 X 375 pixels.
Irfanview is a really easy-to-use download for free that you can get off the Net. The size of the photo is listed under the attachment, so dial-uppers can tell if they want to open one, pass, or tap their fingers while it downloads. If i post pics inline that open automatically, i keep them to a smaller file.
I usually go with 640 x 480. My camera downloads that as about a 200KB file in the folder, but re-saving it with Irfanview at 99% reduces the file size to about a third that. As i said, i can't explain it, just discovered that while using the % selection to reduce the size compared to using the dialoge box having to do with pixels and dpi.
Your pics aren't visually too large on the screen, but the file size makes them open more slowly than they need to. And anymore than that, we're going to have to grab someone in IT for an explanation...
Nice orchid. Now...about that "Sit a spell..." sign you carved for the garden... ;^)
From us dialuppers in the hinterlands, thanx for resizing the pics. I was trying having two browers open, in order to have the chance to even look at pics, which take forever to load. Our connection speed in these parts is 26,400 bps. Your resized ones popped right in, the others, including my own attachments, take awhile to come in, line by line. I'd rather spend my money on better greenhouses than highspeed internet....
<<Your resized ones popped right in, the others, including my own attachments, take awhile to come in, line by line. >>Thanks for the feedback; that's good to know. I was hoping the in-line pics weren't slowing page-loading too much. You don't have to choose between greenhouses and hi-speed - just make more money! ;^PLet's get VaTom to ship us all his polycarbonate....
<I was hoping the in-line pics weren't slowing page-loading too much.>
Actually, the print pops in, with huge blank spaces where pictures might be. Walt's and yours being on the same page made blank spaces stay a long time....but yours beat his to the finish.
<Let's get VaTom to ship us all his polycarbonate....>
We could outwit this wind and cold....
I looked up Irfanview and, unfortunately, discovered it doesn't support computer-challenged Mac users. However, it is easy for me to scale photos for uploading before posting them as long as I know the approximate pixel scale that's user-friendly for dial ups. (The Mac iPhoto program has an export function that lets you do this.) So, for example, isn't a photo OK at about 500 X 375 pixels, or is a smaller one best? Also, I have no way to include the photos in the message that I know of -- like you do.
I'm finding, with my dial-up service, that pictures of 100KB come in (don't come in) very slowly. So 300 x 500 is too big......not sure what size would pop in faster, but for my website, I always scale the thumbnails about 170x200 (+/-).....or about 10-20KB. Suppose one could make thumbnails to post, then also a larger image for those who want to see detail. You can just open two browsers after you've attached a picture, open it in one, and copy and paste it to the other you are editing. For me, from IE (internet explorer) to Ie worked fine, but Splintie said one might have to use Mozilla, too......Splintie, what was that cross referencing, I've forgotten?
Does this work better? Seems kinda small at this end. (Picture of dust control filter.)
Edited 5/26/2008 11:45 am ET by Jimma
Does this work better? Seems kinda small at this end.
Oops.
Am I also posting too-large files for comfortable dial-up? If so, missed that part. And am sympathetic, as we're only recently beyond dial-up. Always possible to resize the resolution. Been using 72 dpi. PAHS works. Bury it.
"Am I also posting too-large files for comfortable dial-up?"
They were a bit large, but I get used to waiting! I just played with this image, trying to find a way to keep the pixel sizing (not dpi), so the picture would stay the same size, yet reducing the file size, so it will come in faster. My photo program has a pop up window that appears when you save an image, asking the photo quality...I took the file size from 132 KB (down thru 5 different 'qualiity' sizes) to what it is here (59KB)....still seems clear enough to make out plants. I couldn't get it down any smaller in file size without making the picture itself smaller, then you wouldn't be able to make out the plants.
72 dpi is standard for the web(or, I was told, actually screens are 100 dpi). But don't worry about dpi if you are using a pixel size, that overrides dpi(dots per INCH). It's nice to have the pictures large enough to see what's there, so maybe anything around 3-400x4-500 pixels.....but then, being that large, one has to find a way to reduce the file size. Some programs do it in percentages.
Oh, this is a patch of tomatoes I just set out, if you can find them.
It came in much faster, but I agree, is a little small.....and that pic Splintie posted of the onions came in well. I didn't check the properties on it, to see the file size, and the pixel size. One thing I learned with my website and other pictures.....there is the pixel size, but then when you save it, my program asks for what quality to save it at....that can make a huge difference in the file size, and how long a picture takes to come in. For my thumbnails, I was saving at a 5 (scale of 1-10)...if I save the same image, same pixel size, at a 10, it more than doubles the file size. I had to spend hours and hours working on some images, to get them exactly the right file size required for online jury applications (arts & crafts shows). Learned alot!
I bet you could make a picture 4 x 5"(72 dpi), and save it at a low quality/file size, and it would come in fast enough.
I'm sure you're right about file size compared to pixel count unshrunk. Thing is, my browser doesn't give an option for modifying the image other than by pixel count. I guess going to another browser a la Splintie would allow some kind of compression which would modify the file size and make it less bloated. Maybe I can become un-Mac like and try one of them there PC tricks.
What photo program are you using? Surely Mac has one made for it that allows you to change file size/picture quality. Perhaps yours just doesn't have that feature on the program that came with it....which doesn't seem right, since Macs were made for imaging work.
The program that came with my Canon digital camera allows the picture to be changed by a percentage reduction...which seems to shrink the picture smaller.....then the save window has a slider for choosing picture quality/file size. I tend to prefer my old Adobe Photo Deluxe 1.1 for more options.
The photo program on the Mac (there's a newer one out than mine which is about three years old now) is iPhoto. I don't have another, but it allows you to scale pictures for export by telling it what pixel count you want. I guess it keeps the compression ratio the same, just changes the size without changing the resolution -- or SOMEthing. If I were to change the resolution in the camera when the photos were taken it would change the file sizes, but all of the pictures would be stored at that resolution and photos imported from other cameras would still be at whatever. Hurts my head to think about it.
"Hurts my head to think about it."
I know what you mean!!!!!
You mean this one?
That is so perfect, i'm afraid someone will think you had it laser- or computer-engraved.
Hey, folks, this is Jim's carving skill on display in their garden!
Re in-line pics: Make your post, open the attachment, copy it, go back, edit your own post and paste the copied pic into it.
I can only do this in IE, can only attach a pic with Mozilla (yes, we all hate the #%#&^ing software here), so it's a real production for me. You Mac-users are on your own...
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Thanks, I knew about the dead canes. Leaving 4-5 live ones/ft was no problem this year. That's all there were. These aren't getting tall, droop when they get much over 5'. Then arch, rooting at the end of course.
Directing those droops was my main concern. Straight rows aren't very interesting.
Sounds like I need to decide if I want more vertical growth, requiring support. As I mentioned, normal posts don't work here. Insufficient dirt depth.
This is definitely the year, before they get away from me. The way it's going, I may be looking for another area to greatly expand production. Sure don't like cutting large trees when I don't need the lumber or the firewood.
But I could make a real maze... wow, better than boxwoods. Which I've got enough 8-9'ers to make a substantial maze, just haven't yet found anybody willing to pay for it.
PAHS works. Bury it.
Nice job! IIRC, you're un the Great Plains, right? How does the visqueen work when you have freezing rain, switching to snow? I assume solar gain occurs, even with snow piled on top but with a large accumulation of heavy/damp snow, have you had any problems with sagging or failure? I'd like to do some kind of small greenhouse here and since we average more than 7' of annual snowfall (we had 9' last winter), much of it heavy and wet, sometimes followed by rain, I don't want to have to rebuild too soon.
For temperature control, how about adding some light framing on each end and using a smallish basement storm window? Some are the awning type and some have a slider. Cheap and easy, but it could work.
I'm in MT, so the visqueen used to work fine, but you'll have to read the thread for the saga of the bum batch i got and how i replaced it with Griffolyn. More when i get back from Peachfest. IBEW Chuck is giving me that glorious rototiller parked on the back of his van just in time for "HoopHouse, the Sequel".
Somewhere way back toward the beginning of this thread, I posted pics of my little greenhouse made with cattle panels to take snow loads. Snow will press in on the sides of plastic over hoops, so you need something rigid like the cattle panels. It would take it just like an igloo. I average 3-4' of snow here. Other idea is a dome with rigid panels, which I may make next.......
Just reread this whole thread. Very nice.
Thanks!
Occasionally Taunton plops me into the middle of this thread and i wonder who added all the new info! It's as re-readable as a good book.I was so full of trepidation about posting this thread since it was not a "fine" structure and more Over-the-Fence oriented, but my own gardening has certainly benefited from the input of others in return for any ideas others gained from my simple structure. I've been spurred to look into PAHS houses, tractors, starplate connectors and grow domes...all manner of spin-offs. Not to mention, this tiller IBEWChuck contributed to Miller v. Nature made me cry several times on the way home, in awe at his generosity and my good fortune. I asked Chuck if the red horse were a boy or a girl. He said it's a girl, so her name is "Erica". <g>Plantlust showed up at Peachfest and gave a horti-tour of Doud's understory as he led us around his orchard and woods the last day; i finally smelled a spicebush at her indication. I also got to experience chiggers after all my preparations to avoid them while camping...~Splinter, looking for a fresh hairbrush to scratch with
Well, I'm completely jealous. We live in a tight urban area and I've got my herbs all in pots on the patio! I miss my garden. When we moved up here from Texas (huge, organic garden) my son says: "Mom, it's boring here, there's not even any weeds to pull!". Our morning gardening and the "putting up", drying and canning took up a big part of our lives.
I did stick a rosemary bush in among the rhodies and have squeezed lettuce and spinach along the walk, but there's no more room. Alas.
Good on you.