Hot water recirculation pump
JLazaro317
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
Hello All,
I know that this has been covered here before and I was able to read some posts, but I’ll ask the question again. What is the best way to recirculate hot water in a ranch on a crawl. I’ve done a little research on the Grundfos pumps and don’t know which way to turn. They offer with recirc line and without (using the cold waterline). House is new construction so anything is possible. I also had the bright idea of a recirc pump under the floor or in the cabinet at the furthest point that would be activated by turning on the lights in that bathroom.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Replies
I advocate with a recirc line. This is one of my favorite features in a house. Having a pump activated by a light isn't a half bad idea, unless there are other fixtures along the line that would be used without that far one activating the pump.
I divided my house into 3 different hot water loops. The are all hooked up to the same pump but each has it's own timer. My upstairs is the kids rooms and they are off at college so that loop is closed off when not used. The other loops are the master suite and the kitchen/laundry area. So far I love stepping into the shower ar 7am to instant hot water. The kitchen loops has it's timer off at the moment because there is just no pressing need for fast hot water and it is also closest to the utility room so the delay isn't that long. The whole system probably cost $200 and a few extra hours labor, paid for in the first weeks of fast hot showers.
how did you do the flow controls to do 3 separate locations on one pump ?
carpenter in transition
The dedicated recirc line is the way the I prefer and installed in my home. Use an all bronze pump, Grundfos is an excellent brand, UP15-10B5 would be the model to use. There is a version of this pump with a timer /T. You may or may not actually need the pump. I have a 10 ft vertical drop in the line and gravity does the work.
I installed a recirc line in the house I am still finishing. I have no pump at all. Convection does the work. My house is a two story, with several bathrooms. It all works well. I added gate valves to the return lines so I could adjust the flow in each to compensate for varying distances back to the heater. The bathroom that is closest is throttled the most.
Convection is a beautifully simple way to do it. To prevent excess heat loss, and reduce heat gain in the summer, insulation should probably be used. Installing pipe insulation on both lines can be a pain.So for my money, I'm going to try the Chili Pepper in my next application.http://www.chilipepperapp.com/
any chance you could post a simple line drawing...fixture high, tank low, showing how this works?
I don't have the time for a drawing. I'll try to explain.
The heater is in the basement. 3/4 inch hot water header running the length of the basement about 40' long. I have 3/4 inch take-off's heading up to the first and second floors. At three strategic usage points (master bath lavatory, shower, and childs lavatory) I have a 1/2" line tee'd off the hot supply about 18" up from the second floor level (just below the lavatory shut-off valves). These 1/2 " lines return back down to my "return header", which is also 1/2". This header then tee's back into the inlet pipe of the heater. All pipes are insulated.
Actually in theory, you will get better flow if the return line is cooler than the supply. Colder, heavier water sinks.
I did make one mistake (at least one;). One of my return lines is tapped in higher than the others. Thus this particular line does not flow as well. It is still enough that I get hot water within about 5 seconds, even though the shower is about 60 pipe-feet from the heater. My lavatory is even farther and has hot water in about 1 second.
If I get time at work during lunch next week, I'll cook up a drawing.
Edited 11/4/2005 9:46 pm ET by mlbfreestyle
Much obliged....
We ran a return loop while replumbing our house - 3,500 sqft/4bath. We did this in previous home and would not have it any other way. The convience of instant hot water in every location is now a household expectation and waiting for hot water seems old fashion...
We used an inexpensive pump. 3/4 inch supply line and 1/2 inch return - all fully insulated.
Just to it. You will be pleased, but it required breaking some old habits. Turning on the shower is last step. Hot water comes quicker when washing your hands, so you may not be fast enough to use hot only...
Dean
Another option is to simply put a small (5-10 gallon) electric WH adjacent to the remote bathroom, fed from the hot water line from the "big" WH. The small heater can be hidden in a cabinet, closet, or, in warmer climes, in the attic above.
(Note, this heater really IS a "hot water heater".)
No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
Hello All,
Thanks for the replies. I have used convection loops in the past with insulated lines and restricting valves. Works great if you can put the water heater at the lowest point (ie. a basement). But in this application, I'm dealing with a ranch on a crawl.
I have also done a small booster heater at the furthest point in the crawl. But at this point, I'm leaning toward a recirc line with a Grundfos or Laing pump on a timer (built in). Any recommendations on either or which model? The Grundfos seems to be more expensive than the Laing, but is it better?
http://www.grundfos.com
http://www.lainginc.com
Thanks,John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
We sell them both. I would spend the xtra pennies for Grudfos.
Yeah, but you get the company discount. :)
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No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
Tim I need one too -- how can I contact you - tks
Depends on where your located. Give a city and state, I can put you in touch with someone in your area.
Washington DC area -- Chevy Chase, MD-- only need the pump etc no installation -tks
Washington, DC (Satellite of Beltsville, MD) - 0032
Main Branch:
View ImageView Image
View Image
Manager: Mr. Douglas McCoy
Phone:
(202) 529-7411
Street Address:
Fax:
(202) 526-0425
3194 Bladensburg Road N.E.Washington, DC 20018-2204
Products:
HC, H, P, PW, W
These guys should have complete access to both Grungfos and Laing recirc pumps. The chinese version is much cheaper.
tim -- tks -- dudley
Redneck reply:
Why even bother, only use hot water once a week anyway?
Seriously, arranged house so all 3 baths are less than 15 ft from HWH, 4-5 seconds at the most. Even with insulation on the pipes & recirculation, you still lose $$ a year, and more than that, add to energy situation.
Other than narcisistic 'feel good', why bother?