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house decontsruction/reconsrtruction?

townail | Posted in General Discussion on January 16, 2007 08:57am

Hello All,

Looking for any advice/input….I have a friend looking at purchasing a house as salvage and moving to his property. The option of moving the house “in one piece” is not a viable due to size. My first thought was “waaayyyyy to labour intensive to be worth it” but after considering the cost of building new, maybe its not. The homeowner would be doing the bulk of the work in combination with paid/volunteer help. (if this goes ahead, I will be involved somehow, hence this post!!) 

Overview: 3000sq ft rancher to be deconstructed, moved (30miles) and reconstructed on new foundation / new main floor deck.

Has anyone done this type job? If so, pros/cons?

Thanks

TN

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  1. User avater
    BossHog | Jan 16, 2007 09:16pm | #1

    What would you really gain by doing this?

    I doubt you would save the floors, so you'd need them new. No way could you save the drywall or insulation.

    Do you really want to re-use plywood that's full of holes?

    The only thing I could see that you'd save would be maybe the cabinets, doors, windows, and the framing.

    I can't in my wildest dreams imagine that it would be worth it.

    Ninety percent of politics is deciding who to blame. [Meg Greenfield]
  2. Piffin | Jan 16, 2007 11:31pm | #2

    even with volunteer labour, there is no way this is a sound financial plan.

    The only way to come close to saving this place is if it is in really good shape, slice it into moveable sections, and reassemble them within a few miles on a desireable lot.

    I wouldn't touch it

     

     

    Welcome to the
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    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
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  3. HammerHarry | Jan 17, 2007 04:00am | #3

    The only way you could do this is to chop the house into moveable sections, and then truck it.  Let's say it's 50 x 60.  You'll have to chop it into at least 4, maybe 6 pieces; how much is it going to cost to transport them 30 miles?  Will you have to have the utilities move overhead wires?  If you take the roof off, you'll have to build a new roof....

    Unless the house is free, and/or of major historical importance, AND you own the trucking company, I can't see how it would make sense.

  4. pickings | Jan 17, 2007 04:10am | #4

    3000 sf ranch that has to be cut up and moved 30 miles is a lot of $$. Does not sound like it would be worth it.

    Only moved one house, an historic one, 3500 sf, two floors, moved intact.

    But that was only 1 mile.

  5. IdahoDon | Jan 17, 2007 04:29am | #5

    I grew up around a few towns that dried up back in the early 80's when mines closed.  Houses were essentially given away and moved up to 50 miles or so.  I've been in one that survived the move quite well other than a few sheetrock cracks here and there.

    How old is the house?  If it's older than drywall, the odds go down that it's worthwhile.

    How well is the house built?  If it's well built and fully sheathed the odds go up that the move won't be tramatic.  If the nails are half rusted through the move isn't going to do it any good.  If the floor joists are beefy it's easier to support, while substandard framing will just bend and break. 

    How is it finished inside?  If it's full of great hardwood floors and stain-grade trim I'd be more excited.  If it's almost to the point that it needs to be stripped to the studs and rebuilt, what's the use.  Just build new.

    How level is the existing foundation?  Having been around houses that have been lifted and new foundations poured beneith, it's a no-brainer to say if the house is currently on a very uneven foundation it will be tremendously difficult to get it to settle down to a new flat one.

    How will it be divided?  If the sections are convinently on flooring breaks and everything will be easy to put back together, that's worlds away from cuting hardwood floors in mid stream.

    Overall it's a great idea if the house is in great shape.  It's also a terrible idea if it's a run of the mill old house, regardless of how many volunteers there are to put it back together.

    Good moving.

     

     

    Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

  6. DougU | Jan 17, 2007 06:43am | #6

    The option of moving the house "in one piece" is not a viable due to size.

    This quote has me puzzeled, why cant the house be moved. I know where there is a house that is at least 6-7000 square ft that has been moved, and that happened back in the early 1900's!

    My BIL sold his house to the state for highway improvments, the house is a split foyer with approx 2800 square feet, three stall garage. That house was moved by taking the garage off and moving it in two pieces. It went some 20 miles.

    I grew up in a town that was an old victorian town(ie, big houses), flooded constantly. The gov'ment came in and bought up most of the places and sold the houses to be moved. Most were just raized and a few had been moved, anywhere from 5 miles to 35 miles.

    I've seen a lot of houses moved in my time and most have been done without a hitch.

    I must not be understanding something here.

    Doug

    1. User avater
      Matt | Jan 17, 2007 04:22pm | #10

      I don't know much of anything about moving houses... so, let me ask a question.  If the house is a 3000 sq ft ranch that is 80' long that comes up to about a width of 37.5' and maybe wider since many houses aren't perfect rectangles.  Can a 37' wide house be transported down many/most secondary roads?

      1. User avater
        bambam | Jan 17, 2007 05:05pm | #12

        I have a good friend who is a house mover and I've seen him move double wide trailers in one piece before. That is only 28'- 32' though at best.

        1. User avater
          Matt | Jan 18, 2007 02:23am | #13

          Here is a Q - and I'm not trying to be a wise a$$;   (-:  Do doublewides have wheels on them?  Yea - that's right - I'm just a white boy from middle class America...

          1. User avater
            bambam | Jan 18, 2007 03:25am | #14

            Yes they do, hence the word trailer. In fact, any house you move on the hwy will have to have wheels right?  I cant get in the habit of saying manufactured home. All houses are manufactured by someone.  The ones I build dont come with wheels.

            In answer to your other question a house up to 40' can be moved down many but not most roads according to my house mover friend.

          2. User avater
            Matt | Jan 18, 2007 04:08am | #16

            OK - I mean I knew that doublewides had wheels at some point, but wasn't sure if they were removed when the house was set - like maybe a set dollies of sorts.

            Anyway, thanks for the answers.  The thing about this place is that you learn all kinds of stuff, including some info really aren't even really looking for....

          3. User avater
            bambam | Jan 18, 2007 04:21am | #18

            Around here they do remove the wheels but to move it in one piece they use a house moving dolly.

          4. badassbrad | Jan 18, 2007 03:58am | #15

            Hi, I am the crazy guy who is looking at doing this project. About myself, I am a firefighter who works a 4 on 4 off schedule with ability to take 2 months holiday in a row and as many shift trades as I would require. My past experience is certified millwright where I have deconstructed and reconstructed large buildings in the past although none residential. I am able to continue living in my home on the same property that the reconstruction  will take place. Prior to reconstruction I will have the new homes first level constructed up to the sheeted second floor.

            The project. 16 yr old very well built 2700sq ft rancher with 2700sq ft walk out bsmt also attached 1000sq ft 3 car garage all 2 x 6 construction. This home is immaculate! I am friends with the original builder who is supplying me with all the plans and truss lay outs.  

            The contents. Approx 30 wood frame windows, 2 gas fire places, all int doors ( high end with 36" openings),  solid wood 4ft main door, several stained glass french and pocket doors, 4 sky lights, Kohler fixtures, hot water boiler, new hot water tank, all garage doors powered with glass panels, very large modern kitchen, corrian counters and all appliances, all lighting and switches, everything very high-end

            My Plan. The developer requires that I remove the dry-wall, everything else can be left on site. Break-away stucco, siding, and brick facade. Dry-wall contract to remove and dispose of all dry-wall costs $4500.00. Remove cedar shake roof, and 1 x 4 strapping, and have crane remove all labeled trusses and package. Disconnect electrical and pluming and salvage. Take 8 foot walls in sections by removing top plate sawzall between studs in appropriate lengths, package and transport. 

            Reconstruction. Once everything on site put the big puzzle back together! My quotes come in at around $200,000.00 can. To build this house new at even $1.00 a square ft would be probably 3 times that.

            What are your thoughts?

          5. User avater
            bambam | Jan 18, 2007 04:17am | #17

            My quotes come in at around $200,000.00

            Is that the turnkey walk in price or just to reassemble without the sheetrock and shakes?

            I dont know where your from but here it I can get it moved for a lot less money and labor.

          6. badassbrad | Jan 18, 2007 04:44am | #19

             I live in Vancouver Canada , and a reputable mover quoted me $100000.00 to get it off the foundation and dropped on the new foundation. The house would have to be taken in 3 pieces . Other costs would be mileage , wire removal , foundation built under house , roof , floors ,etc.

             The estimated costs I gave you were basically turn key. Drywall , paint , laminate floors , and metal shake roof. I have a few connections.

          7. User avater
            bambam | Jan 18, 2007 04:56am | #20

            Well were only about 3500 miles apart. If that is turnkey then it sounds pretty fair to me, even for my neck of the woods. Sounds like the house is well built and a pretty good deal. You will have a lot of sweat equity in it, but that will make it better in the end.

            btw, I also am a fire fighter here in Texas. Im a volunteer weekend warrior, but I take it  seriously. I hold a certification in both firefighting and ems.

          8. DougU | Jan 18, 2007 07:13am | #22

            Brad

            I'm a big fan of "save the house" if you can. I hate seeing pefectly good houses torn down just because someone doesnt have the vision to save it.

            $100,000 seams like a lot of cash to move the house but I dont keep up with the house moving costs like I should!

            If you do undertake this job we would be tickled to see a picture by picture update of the whole process.

            Good luck

            Doug

          9. dovetail97128 | Jan 18, 2007 08:04am | #24

            I have been involved in 3 house moves. The cost to the mover was much less than the costs to the utility companies for the needed moves of power, phone, t.v. etc. Not to mention traffic signals, signs etc.
            All this work had to be co-ordinated and done at overtime rates because the utilities won't alter their normal scheduled work for the moves.
            If you go with the mover write a contract that states they are responsible for all of this at a fixed cost to you.Edit, Might save a bunch of money by putting your own foundation under the house as well. I did on all three and it was definitly worth it $ wise.

            Edited 1/18/2007 12:49 am ET by dovetail97128

          10. badassbrad | Jan 19, 2007 07:35am | #27

            If I were to relocate this house, does anyone have any advice on the foundation/main floor deck prep to fit the pre-fab walls on ?

          11. badassbrad | Jan 19, 2007 07:22pm | #28

            Thanks' a lot to everyone who replied. It looks as though I am going to give this a shot. I will be taking millions of pictures for reference, and will direct some to this site. Does anyone know of anybody as "crazy" as myself that has taken on anything to this magnitude ? I am still searching some feedback , be it positive or negetive .

             Thanks' again Brad 

          12. DougU | Jan 19, 2007 07:32pm | #29

            Brad

            Not speaking for anybody else here but I would bet we all know people more crazy then you! Or at the very least, as crazy!!!

            I've seen guys do some stuff that I thought was cost prohibitive but in the end it turned out fine, if you feel you can do this then dont let anybody talk you out of it. Besides, it keeps you off the streets and out of the bars!

            Doug

             

          13. badassbrad | Jan 19, 2007 08:56pm | #30

            Doug; It will no doubt be a weight loss program at the very least !

          14. User avater
            McDesign | Jan 20, 2007 02:51am | #31

            <Does anyone know of anybody as "crazy" as myself>

            "I seent a kid get et up by pigs, once"

            Forrest

      2. DougU | Jan 18, 2007 07:03am | #21

        Matt

        I wish I could get a picture of the house that I mentioned on here, two story, probably 6000 plus sq. ft.  It was moved within the city of Cedar Rapids, Iowa back at the turn of the 1900's. I'd imagine that they have better moving capabilities now then what they had back then!

        The house that my BIL sold to the IDOT and was latter moved was not quite as big a footprint as your guesstamate on this particular house but the thing was moved with only the garage removed.  I know that the  road that they moved it on was intermitantly shut off to oncomming traffic for the several hours that it took to get it the 25 to 30 miles to its destination. This was a normal county road, paved.

        Thirty seven feet wide sure would be a presence comming down the road though, wouldnt it! I've seen combines moving down the road with 12 row corn heads on them and figuring a row of corn spaced at 24" - 30" (thats a guess, dont recall from my teen years how far apart we were planting the corn) that would be 24" - 30 feet on an estimate so maybe a house at 37 feet wide is doable, not real sure.

        I've seen a lot of houses moved in my time, never one with the footprint that this one would take up but I'd bet that the house could be cut in sections and moved.

        It sounds like the original poster is not looking to spend the kind of $$$ that it would probably take to move it.

        I'm a believer that there is salvage posibilities with the house. My ex-FIL used to do that all the time and I think he did OK with them.

        I dont know if the house can be moved or not, my guess is that it can since I think just about anything can be done if you want to spend the money and have someone willing/capable.

        If it is moved I'd like to see the pics of it.

        Doug

        1. User avater
          Matt | Jan 18, 2007 01:52pm | #25

          Interesting....

          I'm wondering if house moving may be more common out west, the reason being that in the east many country type roads have large trees pretty much right up to the shoulders.   Really - I have no idea, just guessing.

          I've only been to Idaho once, about 3 years ago (beautiful country by the way) and, at least where I went, it was rather wide open.  I had never seen farm equipment and irrigation to the scale that you described until I visited that part of the country - OK, maybe 1 or 2 combines but they are less common here on the east coast.  There are large farms around here, but I don't know - maybe the crops they grow don't require that?  I do think they use huge combines for the cotton, but I don't think that tobacco, or truck farming need it - and hogs?  Don't know. Soy beans?

          I see a few houses moved around here - maybe 1 a year, and the way this place is growing with a new subdivision or shopping center every time you turn around, I'm sure there are many displaced older houses.  Seems like a waste, but I gotta think that if a company could make money by moving it, or at the least find a buyer for one, it would be moved.

          Actually, at this very moment my company is building an apartment complex and there is an old house on the property.  Never been there but I'm told the supers for the project are using it for their job site trailer and for temp housing.  I was told that it is destine to be torn down once it's time to build the last phase in the project.I was once told that it costs nearly as much to move one and finish it out as it costs to build one but I really have no idea.  Personally, I wouldn't be willing to put that much work into an old hosue unless it was special.  Like maybe a cool but well built antique house.   1950s ranch house?  300 series cat track hoe and dump trucks...

          1. DougU | Jan 18, 2007 03:15pm | #26

            Matt

            Your right, often times the moving of the house is equal to building a new one, in those cases then the house better be something special.

            I'm looking at one right now that is a late 1800's Greek revival. Really cool house but it sits right on a busy highway and it wouldnt make a good place to live, now convincing the farmer to sell it rather then let it rot to the ground and finding a lot to sit it on. Those two problems may mean it will sit and rot to the ground. Obviously all houses no matter what they are can not realisticly be moved.

            There was a church giving away three houses so that they could expand their parking lot. The area of town was bad and the houses were just OK so to move one and comply with all the building codes related to the move made them prime candidates for the city dump.

            Maybe because your area of the country was established so much sooner then here all the house moving has been done, not real sure. We do have some wide open space though and that makes it easy to move a house.

            Another point that you make and thats the style or worth of the house. It used to be that any house that was in the way of progress would get moved and reused, I dont see that near as often as I used to.

            That may be a reflection on our society as much as it has to do with the costs involved in moving houses. I know just to have power lines taken down its upwards of  $1000 + for each time they are moved. Just count the no of times you see a line crossing the road in a 10 mile stretch and you see that the money adds up quickly.

            I like seeing houses moved over torn down but thats just me, I hate the waste of a perfectly good structure going to the land fill. I also see a lot of houses that should be torn down that arnt so..........

            Doug

             

  7. john7g | Jan 17, 2007 07:00am | #7

    I've been involved in 2 house moves as the carpenter doing the frame up underneath.  They were old houses nothing fancy and pretty much crap. 

    Lot's of time & $$$ later each owner had a shiny new basement on OK lots with a piece of old crap for a house.  I'd scrutinize those numbers just to be sure it's still worth it. 

    1. townail | Jan 17, 2007 09:55am | #8

      To All:

      Thanks for the input...much appreciated! I will try address some of the above posts/questions/comments below. Most responses are similar to my initial "not worth it" opinion, shared by most other contractors I spoke with but after seeing the house and the cost of building similar new, I thought it might not be so crazy!

      Moving "AS IS"or sectioning it given the the width of the house (80ft) and roof configuration, is not cost effective. 

      Is the house worth the salvage? I think so... immaculate, 16yrs old, custom built (original builder is involved in the deal/salvage), 2X6 const, 3 bay garage, Marvin windows, radiant heat, Kohler plmb'g, Corian counters, nice kitchen/appliance, 60X30 front deck etc. c/w original plans/engineering. Purchase of the salvage rights may be around the cost of the counter tops (new)

       What would be salvaged?...doors, windows, wall insul, main floor framing, trusses, HWT(new)/boiler, elec fix, plmg fix, cabinets, all appliances, counters, deck/rail, gas FP's and mantles...etc

      Further comments?

       

      TN

       

       

      1. user-256912 | Jan 18, 2007 07:14am | #23

        Search on "building deconstruction". Houses are taken apart all the time. See http://www.thereusepeople.org This organization has disassembled over 1000 homes to resell/reuse the parts. I have just written a book for FH on this subject, called "Unbuilding". Publish date is March 20...Cheers, Bob Falk

  8. User avater
    Matt | Jan 17, 2007 04:13pm | #9

    Here is some random thoughts:

    >>I have a friend looking at purchasing a house as salvage and moving to his property.<<

    Don't houses under this circumstance (house without land) normally sell for $100 or some token fee?

    So, since you say the house can't be moved, and at least an appreciable part of the house can't be re-cycled, I guess it would be a balancing act between what can be saved and what one would have to pay to get rid of by being hauled to the landfill.  I'm thinking that the demo and removal of an average house would be around $10k give or take several thousand.  I don't know... myabe this guy has eavy equipment and a dump truck.  If not mark down several thousand including dump fees to get rid of debris.

    Seems like that part of it alone would be teetering on the edge of financial feasibility, unless the un-recycled debris could be burned.  

    In my mind the only thing of real value that could be reused would be the cabinets, but then you would be kinda stuck with a certain kitchen layout, since obviously matching cabinets with the same amount of wear wouldn't be available.

    >> My first thought was "waaayyyyy to labour intensive to be worth it" but after considering the cost of building new, maybe its not.  <<

    Building a house is a huge amount of labor.  I see this nearly everyday, when I whish that some of my subs could finish faster.  For example, on Monday I noticed that it took 4 very professional drywall finishers the whole day to skim coat 2 houses.  My thought was that it would take 6 man hrs per house - wrong!!!  I'm thinking my painters put at least 300 man hours into painting a house interior.  So, all this comes up to thousands of hours.  Throw in the deconstruction, material double or triple handling, transport and storage aspects, and you just maybe doubled the hours required.   Sounds good for someone who doesn't have a job and doesn't mind being on the 5 year plan.  

    I'm thinking that the expense of building a house might be 35% materials and 65% labor costs.  Or maybe 40/60.   OK - so let's say that very optimistically you could save 50% on materials.  So now we are down to a 20% cost savings... for how many hours of work?

    Volunteers: When I built a house for my wife and I all my friends said they would come and help.  Some did, and stayed a day or a few even 2.  In the end, I probably ended up with maybe 100 or 200 hours of volunteer labor.  Compare that to the several 1000s of hours it takes to build a house and  it isn't more than a drop in the bucket...  It's a good idea, but the reality is that everyone has busy lives. 

  9. [email protected] | Jan 17, 2007 04:58pm | #11

    A friend, who was a Project Manager for a major builder's, Las Vegas land development team, moved a 20 year old, high end, 4,000 sf ranch, 30 some miles, in three pieces, and put it back together.  It was on a group of "rural estate", 2.5 acre per house lots the builder bought to rezone and develop at 9/acre.  He got the house for free, as the builder was going to have to demo it to do the development. 

    He had been with the builder long enough that he could buy a home from them at cost plus a nominal amount, and it cost him less per s.f. to move an existing structure onto property he already owned, and put it back together. 

    He had also run the cost of building the same house, hiring the company's subs to do the work, and came in at around 60% of that cost.  Even when he hired the subs to do the restucco, repaint, and floor repairs. 

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