I’m building a new house this spring and am going to side it with panelized cedar shakes with 1x under for better ventilation. Should I use Tyvek or tar paper as a house wrap?
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Or Typar
#30 tarpaper.
Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
Typar/tyvek breathe better and stop more drafts (bigger sheets, less joints)
Like the sheathing doesn't stop the vast majority of drafts? I think the only advantages that any plastic housewrap might have over tarpaper are that housewrap can be had in 9 ft. rolls, which may offer some labor savings, and that it's harder to tear. I don't think it does the primary job of keeping water off your framing any better, and in many circumstances, as when used in contact with unprimed cedar, housewrap may be quite unreliable.
Tarpaper has worked for a century. I like that. Air leaks are best solved from the inside, for many reasons.Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
I've often wondered why some clever tar paper manufacturer hasn't started producing 9'-0" rolls. Sure they would be heavy but I think they would still be managable. I'm betting they would get more than a few of those plastic wrap converts back.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
"...sure they would be heavy..."
Oh, man! I just turned 57 and the 3 foot rolls are getting heavier! Now you want to do this mean thing!
I just started using Tri-Flex 30 for roofing (10 squares per 30# roll). A 9 foot roll of felt would be like hanging carpet!
Personally, I'm starting to favor those 18" rolls of shake paper!
Actually, I'm about to start a large 2-story house....an 18' roll of felt would just fit on my trailer!
:-)
Hear hear to that!An ex-boat builder treading water!
"A 9 foot roll of felt would be like hanging carpet!"
ROTFLMAO!!!! Some times you guys catch me off guard and I'm left laughing like a baboon all by myself in my upstairs office. Wife always thinks I must be up to something!
I don't know. Could you even hold that up to tack it without it tearing under its own weight?
Depends on how good a wrestler you are. Nothing a crew of twelve or so couldn't handle.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I think you'd have to sheath and paper the walls on the deck. Come to think of it....Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
Yea, what Andy said...
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Tarpaper under Cedar. Shouldn't be much debate on this one.
How about under fiber cement?
I use Typar, but we've started using furring strips over the typar on stud layout to create an air gap. Picked that up at one of those vendor/lumberyard seminars, but I like the idea and it doesn't really add that much to the job in terms of time as expense.
Thanks - good suggestion
tyvek and typar have been know to disintergrate over time ...
tar paper hasn't.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
> tyvek and typar have been know to disintergrate over time ...
> tar paper hasn't.
I've seen Tyvek stand exposure for a lot longer than tarpaper can. Of course, after 3 months or so in the weather it's lost a lot of it's water shedding abilities, but in the same amount of time the tarpaper's been ripped to shreds by the wind.
I've got Tyvek envelopes at home that are probably 15 years old. The adhesive's shot, of course, but the Tyvek is still as good as new. No reason why it shouldn't last 50-100 years when properly covered.
I've uncovered 10 to 15 year old tyvek that was crumbling right under theclapboards.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
> I've uncovered 10 to 15 year old tyvek that was crumbling right under theclapboards.
I doubt that that was Tyvek. Lots of immitaton stuff out there.
I could be wrong but I believe that the tar paper degrades quickly with UV exposure. Shouldn't have cracks in the siding big enough to let the sun shine in, so I don't think it's a problem. There is a documented problem with tyvek and cedar tannins, though.
Jon Blakemore
We use Grade D tar paper. Comes in a double layer roll. (It is code required for use behind stucco.) It comes in a 40" wide roll and is different from standard 15# felt. We quit using house wraps quite a few years ago, there are too many performance issues.
As my "handle" indicates (Rookie), I guess that I’m entitled to this question ... 'like a house-wrap, does tar paper allow the house moisture to "breath" to the outside or does the term "tar paper" just sound impermeable?' - Rookie
That whole 'breathing' thing is overrated.
Tyvek is great for ease of use and labor savings. Other touted benefits are mostly marketing hype. Consider a rain screen design for best siding performance.
Check this out:
http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/housewraps_feltpaper_weather_penetration_barriers.html
I don't know the ins and outs of shakes, but around here virtually all new homes use Tyvek, and, based on my experience, I can highly recommend it. We resided about 10 years ago, pulling off the old hardboard siding and replacing it with Masonite tempered stuff (Woodsman). At that time, we completely covered the house (built 1976 with fiberboard sheathing) with Tyvek, taking great care to tape the seams and around all doors and windows.
The difference it made in terms of comfort inside the house was enormous -- no more drafts through the outlets, no more frost in the corners when the temps hit 20 below. I can't say for sure that it's saving on heating costs (too many other variables), but I would have to believe it is.
I seriously doubt that you can get anything near as good an air infiltration barrier with tarpaper.
This is southern Minnesota.
Dan,
I don't doubt that the Tyvek tightened up your house, but I think that is a secondary consideration. Neither tyvek or tar paper should be relied on to reduce air infiltration, that's the insulations job. Of course you didn't do a down to studs gut job so the tyvek was a good compromise.
Jon Blakemore
The deal with Tyvek and the like is that tannins degrade the stuff. They'll do the same to tar paper, but because it's so much thicker, it lasts longer. Tannins are found in a lot of woods, cedar and redwood in particular, Douglas fir to a lesser extent. The caustic soda used in the manufacture of OSB can also degrade the plastic housewraps. So, many of the materials commonly placed in contact with housewraps aren't good for them. Backpriming can help a lot. Building a rain screen makes it almost bombproof.
UV is bad for all of these things, and for wood too. Cover them and paint the siding as soon as possible.Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
Tar paper, tar paper, tar paper. It seals around the nails, keeps water out, and lasts forever. Recently saw a project on "This Old House" where they were putting cedar shingles on house covered in Tyvek. First thing ol' Bob did was put tar paper over the tyvek at all corner, door and window casings. If Tyvek is so good, how come we have to put tar paper over it? BTW: recommend 15#, and there is a product that looks like a Scotchbrite kitchen pad that can be stapled to the house before the shingles to alllow ventilation. Might be a quicker/cheaper option than furring strips.