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I wouldn't invest my money with those guys.
I suppose it depends on how many foreclosures you have in your market. We used to be #1 in the country at 1 per every 64 houses in the county. Now Stockton Ca has taken that dubious honor away from us having one in every 50 in foreclosure. If 2% of every house standing is going over in a fire sale it has to hurt the price of existing homes and the demand for new ones. They are not building much of anything here.
That is precisly what they are saying. Just because one place in in bad staights doesn't mean the whole country is. Where I live, the forclosure rate is 1 in 600, last I knew. Maybe it is time for the unrealistic prices to come down.
The flat housing prices are occurring because of the change in availability of funds and the tightening of the lending requirements.
You know Jim, I keep hearing about the tight supply of money, but am not experiencing that around here. Of course, we tend to be a consevative lot, so it doesn't seem to affect us as much.>G<
It's happening on a nationwide scale. There are new appraisal rules that create a hands off policy between the lenders and appraisers. This is resulting in lowered appraisals. That dictates and affects prices.
Of course that's the way it allways should have been. I don't know nationwide, except what I see and hear in the news. Here's interesting stat. The rate of forclosures while up 12% over previous period, this rare has been slowing. 1 out of 530approx homes nationwide are in at least the first stages of forclosure. Awful lot of people that aren't!
The thing you have to understand is the reserve rules for banks...now pay attention. Banks have to keep a certain amount of money in reserve to make loans. In normal times, they don't have to worry too much about not meeting the rules regarding these reserves but it's always an issue. Lets just play with some numbers to illustrate. Lets say they need 1k in their account. For that 1k, they can loan 100 times that amount and they loans out there are counted as assets if they are performing. In normal times, they easily meet that number and they can count on their historical data to properly plan for defaults which go against them in the reserve department. Suddenly, the defaults double. They either have to put more cash in the reserve account or stop loaning or get the bad loans to perform. It takes time to balance all of this and in the meantime, they start losing their revenue stream which fed their reserves...so the reserves is under pressure from several angles. Now...please understand that I have only the most rudimentary understanding of all this and take this lesson from where it came...from a carpenter who spent a lifetime in the mud.
I understand the reserve rule. What you are missing is that local and regional banks have missed out on all the #### loans, or most of them>G<
Depends on what you look like (financially). I have 7 mortgages and cant finance a box of nails right now.
My cousin though, just bought a flip house with me. He's new to real estate and had to do no more than make a call to his banker to pull equity from his house.
What takes me 3 months (if at all) took him literally one week.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I can, what shall I buy?
If I were you i'd buy at least a duplex. I'm not too pleased with my single families right now. The duplex is a good producer though.
If I can ever get liquid again i'd like to give commercial a try.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I had an opportunity to buy 2 four families, but hesitated too long, probably good. I;m looking. My wife and I are discussing maybe a flip.
you discuss these things with your wife? :)
if i slow down while driving ...... my wife thinks we have bought the property we are passing...
she makes all the deposits... so when a check shows up and she doesn't know the name on it... she just sets up a new account... might remember to ask me about it in a few days... or months....
I have a good wife :)
p
I like your style LOL!
My wife used to think when I slowed down that I had worked on that house or business. Mostly she was right!>G<
Be careful flipping right now. We just bought one for 11k that neds about 10k worth of work. We should be able to dump it for 60.
I dont see alot out there priced for flipping though. I stumbled across this one.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
i have been hearing recently that we have hit the bottom in the real estate mess. I don't believe this is true. The median price is still at least $200,000 more than what the median income earner can afford.foreclosures are being snapped up by people with available cash, or who can get loans. New construction has come to a grinding halt, thereby reducing the introduction of new housing to the market. Yet we still have an 11 month supply of real estate on the market. Fall is almost here and once winter comes, real estate sales slow considerably where I live. States are mostly running big deficits, and taking less revenue due to reduced values on homes, which means layoffs and reduced spending.Let us not forget that housing was the last engine of this nation's economy. Nothing has really changed --we are not growing more manufacturing jobs, we are shedding them to places with lower wages.What would happen if we started in with Russia, we cannot, they own a sizable chunk of our debt. What if we messed with Iran, and suddenly the price of oil went to $200 a barrel.
Pretty much my thoughts. There is still quite a bit left to endure.
Where do you live? That has a lot to do with affordability. Please note, that in Cal or Hi, prices maye be as you describe. But the thing to remember is that most Americans don't live there.
I live in California. Vallejo, California update. They have declared chapter 9 bankruptcy. Now they are in the courts to see if they can dissolve all city union contracts. I mention this because I believe that the route Vallejo has taken will be taken by many other cities as well as states.Another thought, what if the current president was a Democrat, do you think the conservatives would be saying things like "the housing crisis is overblown"? Compare what we are going through now to what our economy was like under Carter, and the amount of heat Carter continues to take from the right.
I know I would. Some cities should and will go BK. These cities have been run like some of the shortsited corporations. When you give exagerrated saleries and benefits, in the short run you appear to be the hero, but not in the long run.
This is simmular to fanny mae etc., benifits were everyone could qualify for a house, a seemingly good result. Economically, a lot of those people should never have been given loans. This is the result of a democrat congress continually tinkering with this co..
I was with you almost until the end and then you threw in that part about the democrat controlled congress. I had to laugh.You might want to thank Phil Gramm, McCain's economic go to guy for helping orchestrate this mess:Gramm was one of the main architects of the Gramm-Bliley-Leach Act under the Bill Clinton administration, which undid a law that kept a firewall between the activities of commercial banks and investment banks. Gramm was responsible for loosening regulations spurred by the Great Depression that kept banks and their customers from being subjected to the dangers of banks collapsing.
Did Gramm also sign that bill? The vote was 54-45 so a veto would have stopped it.
Must have been reading my mind.
54 - 45 and slipped right on thru.
I've said before and I'll say it again. The President doesn't make law. Congress does.
But his big power is Veto. And Bill? Didn't use his this time.
Probably because he was busy with his smoke and mirrors economic growth and deficit reduction.
We won't even talk about previous speeches and actions Clinton made to loosen up the credit by these 2 quasi gov businesses.
Thing with Clinton was that he is a relatively conservative democrat. He is not a bluedog, but he is definetly not on the far left.This country was veered to the right politically. The conservative think tanks have been very successful in turning the word "liberal" into a dirty word.It is possible for someone like Bush to become president, but it would be unthinkable for someone with political views like Dennis Kucinich to be elected.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/16/news/economy/housing_market.ap/index.htmLOS ANGELES (AP) -- The business outlook among homebuilders plunged to an all-time low this month, as the U.S. financial crisis further sapped their confidence in a near-term housing market recovery, an industry trade association said Thursday.The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index, started in January 1985, tumbled three points to 14 in October. The index stood at 17 in September after registering a one-point increase in August.Index readings higher than 50 indicate positive sentiment about the market. But the index has drifted below 50 since May 2006 and below 20 since April.
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
That bill was slipped in at the last minute, piggy backed onto some other larger bill. It was handled so that no one would notice its passage.
You are right that Phil Grahmn has helped the crisis, in a minor way. But, the problem is that these 2 institutions had a problem with the dems in congress. Please note that the 2 highest contributions to house members were to Dodd and number 2 BO in less than 2 years in office.
Problem, it has that appearence.
frammer... cities and towns usually have a faster turnover in the boards than the employees they are overseeing
the board members think they are qualified to sit across the collective bargaining table
the unions usually wind up making them look dumb
then the boards and govt have to justify the contracts
also...it is the nature of the beast
if an administrator wants to build an empire, then more is better
think back to 9/11.... is the tsa a good thing or a bad thing ?
could we have a better result ? how ?
a lot of the retoric refers to a time when government was smaller
well..... so was the population ( 132 million in 1940 )
point being : is government going to be the solution....or the problem ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You're doing great to find that oneIf the house will sell for $60 and it's trashed,it seems like around here they price it at $50
Top 10 Cities With Highest Foreclosure Rates in 3rd Quarter, 2007
STOCKTON, CA 7,116 31
DETROIT/LIVONIA/DEARBORN, MI 25,708 33
RIVERSIDE/SAN BERNARDINO, CA 31,661 43
FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 16,595 48
LAS VEGAS/PARADISE, NV 14,948 48
SACRAMENTO, CA 15,479 48
CLEVELAND/LORAIN/ELYRIA /MENTOR, OH 16,332 57
MIAMI, FL 15,484 60
BAKERSFIELD, CA 3,947 64
OAKLAND, CA 13,245 71
via RealtyTrac
surprised to see Cleveland up there.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
JeffBuck
It's nice to see the Twin Cites are no longer in the top 10. It was really ugly there for a while.. Now we're down to merely scary as heck.. You want to see some scared people start talking to bankers about how precarious things really are..
The reason the government stepped up to the plate to back Fannie May and Freddie Mack was the Chineese threatened to pull all their loans if we didn't.
Frenchy...your're back???!!! You gonna behave now?
Blue
I WASN'T KICKED OFF. STUPID QUEST CAUSED ALL MY PROBLEMS.. (HEY, MAYBE THEY'RE SECRET NEO CONS LIKE YOU? <GRIN>
I'm officially a Palin supporter. Does that make me a neocon? If so, I accept the mantra.
Blue,
I really was impressed by her speech and thought maybe that McCain had picked a great candidate..
Frankly I'm sick to death of politicians paying lip service to half the population of the country and was really offended by what the DFL did to Senator Clinton..
However the more I've researched her speech the more I realize she's really loose with the truth.
Her final nail as far as I'm concerned was the report given on BBC the other night..
Since they don't have a dog in our hunt they can be pretty objective..
I'm then left with the flip flopping of McCain and his tacky track record..
That's a real pity, I like the guy.. I really do think he's a patriot and good for America..
At least as good as Obama. Frankly when Obama selected that three time loser Bidden as his choice I was all set to switch too bad Palin had to come up with such whoppers in her speech..
I guess at best I'm sitting on the fence..
Wrong area for a post like that. Want me to copy and post it in the tavern?
Blue,
Nah! let it die. Plenty of other political viewpoints there to chew about..
Anyways, were not allowed to discuss that kind of stuff here. Just admit that you got booted for being a donkey and well move on.Just kidding you. I saw your post in the tavern.
Question time. Why do you think the Chinese are so concerned that the US government help their people? Would it not be advantageous to China to pull all those loans and if they could, knock us off the pedestal? What has allowed the Chinese to amass so much wealth that they have money to loan.
China needs us, we are great customers! Where would they put all that cheap electronic junk if not here? We support their economy better than we support our own.
luke.
Short sighted thinking like that has gotten us to where we are today.. China doesn't think in terms that short.. they know that they are better off taking a long term view of America..
Here's the bottom line..
China never has been able to feed herself.. she tradionally goes through feast and famine. Don't forget in our life time she had between 30 and 50 million citizens starve to death.
America is the bread basket of the world..
China has never been interested in foriegn domination..
That does not mean that America can do whatever she wants. Like anyone who's in debt she has to pay the banker..
Short sighted maybe....maybe not! What I know about debt.....I can not pay what I do not have......regardless of whether the lights get turned off!
Luke
there are three ways the nation could deal with debt..
first is continue the debt paying interest on it which denies the nation the money needed to do other important things.
Second is to raise taxes.. to such a crushing level that taxes becomes the biggest expense of anybody. (including Bill Gates)
Third is to have inflation whereby money becomes worth much less. Wages are forced to increase to accomidate that inflation and the previously crushing debt becomes manageable.. (as I said those on social security would be immune to that because of the process built into social security)
There is a fourth way but highly unlikely.. that is the nation discovers something valuable and starts to sell it in a large enough volume to pay off it's debt.. Unlikely to make any serious gold strikes ,Oil fields, or diamond finds, since the country is so well mapped and explored.
Hey frenchy, you overlooked the most obvious solution to debt. Grow the economy by cutting taxes without increasing spending. Problem is, everyone wants to do the first, no one has the cahones to do the second. When we have areal cut in taxes revenues go up. Period. Kennedy did it, Reagan did it, Bush did it, and even Clinton tried it. But none of them did the second, and I have little faith that anyone will. Our experiment in Gov't will survive only as long as we have more people working and feeding in to the system than sitting on their butts with their hands out asking "where's mine?". That aside, its still the best place in the world to work and succeed.
The answer to the question regarding the crisis is of course, yes, no or maybe, depending upon where you live. Same as always.
Well the area where the most descretionary spending is in in the military.
Are you really prepared to see that cut down?
Welfare is a tiny portion of the budget, (extremely tiny)
and say what you want welfare is cheaper than no welfare..
History has clearly established that fact..
> Hey frenchy, you overlooked the most obvious solution to debt. Grow the economy by cutting taxes without increasing spending.The Republicans have the "cutting taxes" part down cold. And they've tripled debt (as a % of GDP) since they started doing it with Reagan. But only Clinton was able to hold down spending. (And, BTW, under Clinton everyone had a job.)The "growth" seen under Reaganomics wasn't due to cutting taxes, it was just living off the national credit card, both public and private. Now we're at our credit limit and the Chinese and Saudis aren't raising it.Think about it. America's debt is $53 trillion (of which "only" $10 trillion is the "national debt"). That's $175 thousand in debt for every man, woman,and child in the US. And most of that debt is "owned" by foreign powers.What this country has to do is cut up its credit card. Right now our biggest export is debt. (Quite literally -- debt securities are our biggest export.) It's also one of our biggest businesses -- about twice as big (in terms of GNP) as manufacturing.This country has to go back to making things -- producing stuff of value, not just pushing paper around.And we do indeed need to tighten our belts, but, in order to "jump start" many negelected segments of the economy (in particular, those related to energy independence) the government is going to need to spend (and therefore borrow) money, as will business (which has been relatively well-behaved debt-wise). But we can no longer afford to give everyone in the country a McMansion with two SUVs in the garage and a big screen TV in the "home theatre".We're facing a crisis unlike any this country has ever faced before. It's nearly certain that our reign as the world's leading power is past it's zenith, and now we need to refashion the country into one that can be frugally prosperous, emulating in many ways northern Europe.
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
The government cutting spending?
one can only dream.. and as you point out it can't happen due to the need to finally invest in some infrastructure.
Cutting taxes is wonderful, but how do we pay for those tax cuts?
Well there is a way, but highly unlikely to happen..
Because if it were everybodies ox would get scratched a little bit.. and there is too much entrenched power to get certain groups allow their ox get scratched..
Very well explained--you have my vote.
DanH,
Both agree and disagree. Not really a Republican anymore, more of a libertarian. I strongly agree that we need to do our best to "cut up our national credit card", I am trying to do that in my personal life as well. However, I disagree on a number of other points. Specifically, that only Clinton was able to hold down spending. Under Reagan in the first 3 years, discretionary nondefense spending was cut 13.5%. He reversed Carter's disasterous policies of gutting the military, and his failure to direct the economy to any degree (can you say Stagflation?). The policies set by Reagan set us on the track for the 3rd longest economic expansion on record. It was not all on debt either, the national debt (and deficit) has risen and fallen (not like it needs to) over the years.
The runaway train now is caused by our personal failure to control our debt, and on the gov't level, by exploding spending and growth on both discretionary and nondiscretionary programs, and the war in Iraq (very mixed feelings on that policy).
Our debt is owned by the Saudies and Chinese, and we need to understand and adress that. Now. Our future security cannot be in the hands of those we cannot trust, it must be up to us.
We do need to make things here as well expanding our capacity to generate our own energy, while avoiding isolationist policies. And you are right, we have to tell everyone that they are not entitled to a McMansion and 2 SUV's. But we want to encourage those who can afford to live that kind of life (with cash) to do as they see fit. They earned it, they should be able to do as they please within reason.
My biggest contention with your post is that we are past our zenith and need to refashion ourselves into a reflection of any part of Europe.
We need to have hope and faith. I believe in the American people, if not so much as our gov't, and think that our best days can be ahead of us. We need to make wise choices, keep opportunities open to all, set aside the mindset of entitlement, and take responsibility for our choices and actions. We need to stay out of the way of those with ability and vision. If we do that, we don't have to go the direction of socialist leaning quasi-democracies saddled with even more outrageous taxes and restricted freedoms. We can remain the beacon of hope and freedom if we choose to do so.
I realize that this post is better suited elsewhere, but could not just let it pass without comment.
Repectfully submitted.
Edited 10/15/2008 12:50 pm ET by bowquack
Look at the graphs for both national debt and private debt, as a % of GNP. Immediately after Reagan took office both began to skyrocket and continued to do so for 24 years, the only brief respite being during the Clinton administration.In particular, look at the graph of private debt, then get with me and explain how it's not a problem.> My biggest contention with your post is that we are past our zenith and need to refashion ourselves into a reflection of any part of Europe.Look at manufacturing again, then tell me it's untrue. We've been on a 20-year-long credit bender, the bills are coming due, and we no longer have a strong industrial base to pull us up by our bootstraps. Our economy's in shambles, our military power is spent, we no longer have any "moral authority" in the world.By the time we recover (if we recover) the Chinese will be the world power.
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
DanH-I don't disagree with you in the slightest regarding the spending spree we have been on both as individuals, and as a nation. Spending is out of control, but that was my point initially, reduce spending. I acknowledge that spending as an aggregate has increased, under Reagan that spending was mostly military (the right move at the time, but not all done wisely) while other discretionary spending decreased.
Regarding manufacturing, again I agree, we need to make things here and buy things from here. It is irresponsible of us to export good jobs to countries that barely pay a living wage and have little or no sense of environmental responsibility. My fathers hometown was the birthplace of "visegrips" and the company that now owns them just recently announced the closure of that plant, sending the jobs out of the country. They stated that they could not compete when we are willing to buy cheap knock-offs from other countries.
At the same time we need to encourage other countries to do a better job at home. Sending us their cheap labor is not a solution. As they prosper, we will too, so we have to help to the extent we can.
At the same time I do not accept that it is too late. Just as we can clean up our personal financial messes (reference Dave Ramsey), we can do the same for our nation. But trying to borrow our way out is not the answer. We need to stop spending so much in Iraq. But the right way to do it is to finish the job. Leaving too soon just creates a vacuum that Iran is hoping to jump into. I don't know if we can leave and still keep a friendly nation behind us, but we really have no choice now.
Our economy is in a tough spot, and the folks that hang out here know better than most, as they are sharp enough to share and learn from others. Our military is not "spent", but they are stretched to near limit, and our moral authority is not exhausted, despite what our media would like us to think. Those nations that truly hate us base it more in religious terms, and will regardless. Members of my family have had the opportunity to travel in Europe over the last several years (and as recently as last month) and have hosted students from Northern Europe, Eastern Europe and Korea. While not everyone loves or even likes us, most still regard us as the free-est and the nation with the most real opportunity in the world.
My original points still stand. Reduce taxes, thereby putting the money back in the hands of people who can most wisely invest, spend or save it, and reduce spending. We can't borrow our way out of this mess.
We have been driven to our knees before, but don't be so quick to count us out. The rumors of our death are still greatly exaggerated.
Again, respectfully submitted.
p.s. I guess I should have just left Reagan's name out!
Edited 10/15/2008 3:22 pm ET by bowquack
Here's an interesting interactive map of "nonprime" mortgage info:http://www.newyorkfed.org/mortgagemaps/
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
The debt ration banks have to attain/maintain to borrow against is also greatly effected by the way banks are allowed to "value" mortgage debts and assets. Until "98" a mortgage assets was the $ value of the property when the mortgage was created. 100k against 120k in value for example. The bank then held a 120k asset, the new rules valued the property at current market value. As the market climbed it was a cash cow. The banks could borrow and loan against the inflated value, that 120K house is now worth 190k to the bank. Well the vales are now falling and the debt ratios are "upside down" for the banks. This is causing the banking industry to shut down, and the longer they remain shut down the worse it's going to get for us.
bowquack
It's not needed to remove names regarding economic policies. Dates alone provide a person with the ability to quickly determine events.. without those statements have no meaning..
So when I refer to various presidents it's not so muuch as a way to point out faults but rather to establish nation wide thinking. For example in your statement you refered to a 12% reduction in non-military spending during the first 3 years of the Reagan terms..
That's of little meaning when it is in conjunction with a similar increase in military spending.. (except to those who solely focus on military spending as important)
Spending is spending! It doesn't matter if your wife spends your money buying furniture or clothes if you go bankrupt..
Not all spending should be treated in the same manner.. For example infrastructure spending has a payback effect..(a bridge decreases the cost of transport) spending on military is a direct cost returning no real capitol gain..
A similar example for personal use would be going on vacation versis buying a home..
There is no long term benefit from the vacation other than some pictures. Whereas homes amount to 60% of a families wealth. In addition to suppling them with shelter and comfort..
Infrastructure spending benefits should be treated differantly than other expenses which have no long term benefit.. (military and social spending)
I grew up in Livonia....kinda strange to see it at the top of a list like this one."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
I just realized today that this post must be a "RLTP", or rush limbaugh talking point. If not rush, one of the other right wing talking heads, in attempt to change the perception of what is actually happening.
The right has been very good at controlling the discussion of what is happening in this country. You would think that after eight years of one disaster after another that Americans would wake up- but it doesn't look like that will happen.
No it is not a talking point. Yes Rush discussed it as you know. I researched this after hearing him speak. Is that something wrong?
BO should not make himself out to be without blame in this mess. I won't even bring up his advisors roll in that mess.
Awesome.
The news gets bleaker and bleaker. These right wing talking points have no basis in reality. They are only meant to deflect people from realizing the extent of the failures of this republican administration.
What are you talking about?
Credit is very tight. It is very hard to get approved for a loan to buy a house. With the recent activity in the banking sector over the last week, banks are going to be even more leery of loaning out money.Harder to get a loan, less houses being purchased, less businesses being started up, less business expansion.The government is pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into this mess in order to stem the flow of blood. Money that the U.S. does not have.
Wrong.Banks could not make loans because their reserve ratios were skewed by the bad loans on their books. The feds took the bad loans so the banks could continue "normal" lending.
Blue
Which means that the government cranked up the defacto printing presses and printed more money which means more inflation which means the foriegn oil we buy as well as the products made overseas will become massively more expensive.
Those cars, electronics, clothing, and Wall Mart junk all became much more expensive.
This all could have been avoided had Bush not cut taxes for the rich and not started a war with Iraq.. (oh and not Pizzed off the Chineese so they canceled the orders for Boeings and replaced them with European Airbuss. The loss of theose 30,000 high paid aircraft industry jobs really hurt this country..
It is Bushes fault for everything?
Frenchy you are getting carried away.
First, look at this bailout as if it were a mortgage. In the next 30 years, most if not all of the money expanded will be repaid. This is not using the printing presses.
Frammer52
I can't make it simpler.. foriegn investors have refused to buy any more of our realestate bonds. Indeed they want to redeem those they've already purchased..
Without foriegn money we can't run our economy.There isn't enough gold in Fort Knox to pay our obligations.
IT's really that simple.
Not quite accurate, they have refused to buy anymore of subprime. The problem has been identifing which are which.
frammer52
From what I gathered speaking to the bankers my BIL knows they are refusing to buy any American realestate bonds due to taking pretty sizeable hits on the subprime ones that were mislabled..
Since the dollar is so weak in comparison to foriegn currancy's they are no longer attractive from that perspective either.. That conversation got really technical. Mainly having to deal with (I think) the difficulty of discounting the dollar sufficently to offset known or presumed known risks
Edited 9/22/2008 3:30 pm ET by frenchy
"Since the dollar is so weak in comparison to foriegn currancy's they are no longer attractive from that perspective either.. That conversation got really technical. Mainly having to deal with (I think) the difficulty of discounting the dollar sufficently to offset known or presumed known risks "
That is just the oposite of rational thought. Are you sure you understood this?
frammer 52
Let's keep this simple.. assume the dollar and the euro are at par.
Europeans can look at the jobs America has exported, the oil we consume and the way we live above our means and know the dollar is going to get weaker while the Euro will get stronger.
Thus if the position becomes the dollars worth .95 of a Euro at the end of the year the cost opf that has to be increased by 5% just to cover the weak dollar.. That's over and above and return on the money required..
Since the world market demand for borrowed money is pretty high and we represent a risk we never had before it's not unreasonable they they could demand 7 percent plus adjustment to the dollar..
If in our example that means they would demand 12% interest for a year loan..
Is that why Europeans price evry part of foreign dales in dollars?
frammer52
Probably because we Americans can speak foriegn languages so they consider us rather dumb and translate stuff for our benefit.
Curious frenchy.
Define 'the rich' please.
Thanks,
skipj
What definition would you like?
Shall I use the definition used by McCain where he says 5 million per year?
Or a global definition whereby any annual income over $11,000 is defined as rich?
I know in some third world countries $500.00 a year is considered rich. While to the CEO's of fortune 500 companies a net worth of less than a Billion is considered not worthy..
What point are you attempting to make?
class envy. hatred, socialist redistribution of the wealth of those who make more than you do! Never you, just those with a bit more... they won't touch you!
Jesus I'm so sick of people trying to steal MY WORK. I/m sick of morons buying into the concept that they can solve their problems by taking money from other people.
which morons you referring to skippy ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Those who look to the government for help.
Those who profit from the government's attempt to help. Read: Fannie, Freddie social engineering...housing affirmative action.
Further questions Senor Hussein?
no, skippy...u got all the answers..
from now on, i'm not gonna google anymore....
i'll just skippyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Perhaps we should open our borders to construction workers from other countries and get the cheapest possible labor we can as companies have done in manufacturing. Why would anyone want to waste money in investing in workers in their own country when they can get the job done for much less with workers from other countries?
Sorry your standard whine won't work..
If you'd been around a while you'd know that I live in a neighborhood of multi million dollar homes (and own one myself) My own home is one of the nicest in the area. I count former Vice presidental wives and senators among my neighbors.. President Bush visited my neighborhood several times because of the wealth of my community and the donations he recieved here..
If fact the first real break in the Watergate scandle came from a nearby neighbor who'd donated a lot of cash to Nixons slush fund..
This is where NBA stars and various other luminaries live, including most of the CEO's of Minnesota's top Companies..
I do agree about your concern about your money being taking by others though.
Ford Motor, GM and Chrysler all took 25 Billion dollars for a temporary loan from the government because they can't figure out how to make a profit.. (unlike Toyota and Mercedes Benz who are earning record profits and massively increasing market share..
As to the 700 Billion dollar bail out of failed Wall street gambelors that should only cost you $2,333 per family member.
OH and welfare? Assuming you're middle class you pay something in the order of $11.00 a year for that...
Now is democracy perfect?
Nope
But with all it's flaws and shortcomings it's better than any other system of government..
So stop your whining be greatful you have a job and that the money we waste on military adventures isn't worse..
frenchy,
Perhaps I was having a bad day, perhaps you misunderstood what I was driving at. I didn't exactly construct a cogent arguement, now did I!
Let me explain my mind set that day, and see if I can make a good case.
The Governor of Washington decided that it would be a good idea to offer full food stamp benefits to anyone who was earning at twice the poverty level. This sailed through our Dem legislature.
Now, my understanding is that the current poverty level for a family of four is about 21.5k. So, in Washington, a family of four can earn 43k, and have other citizens purchase food for them.
Let's peel this onion a bit.
Say you're 26, the wife is 25, and being young and frisky, we also have Junior (3) and Missy (1). Well, that's a handful...but you count yourself lucky! You have a beautiful wife a couple of kids...and a pretty damn good job! (Wife's at home, but you make $20 an hour!) You sure are glad you: A. Got that degree. B. Mastered that trade. and work so damn hard.
Since you live in Yakima, you and the wife are thinking about a little starter home, maybe the parents can help some.
The State of Washington thinks you are a loser. Can't cut it. Need help. Don't you worry, other people will feed those babies. Nothing to be ashamed of, we're here to help. Sure you need help...here take these, it looks like an ATM card now.
I object to this kind of thing for the same reason that I oppose state lotteries. As Studs Terkel said, (paraphrase) 'They let every hardworking American know that the only way they can make it is with the government handing it to them.'
Also, frenchy, I been around this board for years, know who you are.
best,
skipj
Good point. I do know that those applying for help don't come eagerly. Merely as a last resort..
Because I've been unemployed for over a year we're elegible for some aide and with my wife working for welfare it would be really simple..
There is simply no way for me to accept it.. Nor will I visit food shelfs where they don't even ask..
My donations have come to a halt (except to immediate family) but I'll make up for that when reemployed..
(we are in complete agreement about state lotteries) effectively they are a further tax on the poor for the benefit of a reduced tax obligation by the rich.
I am glad you are so sure of your position. I do not agree, I understand the logic though. Let us hope that your position prevails.
"Wrong.Banks could not make loans because their reserve ratios were skewed by the bad loans on their books. The feds took the bad loans so the banks could continue "normal" lending."I was just wondering if you still thought I was wrong. Or, really how bad does it have to get before you realize that unfettered capitalism is completely destructive to a healthy economy.
"Or, really how bad does it have to get before you realize that unfettered capitalism is completely destructive to a healthy economy."We've never had unfettered capitalism so we'll never have any knowledge of how it would really work without the over-regulated mess that we got ourselves into.
"We've never had unfettered capitalism so we'll never have any knowledge of how it would really work without the over-regulated mess that we got ourselves into."How would you describe what was going on with credit default swaps, derivatives, etc. Everywhere unfettered capitalism has been implemented it has resulted in massive unemployment, cratering of the middle class, and general suffering and pain for the majority of citizens. Just look at the blowback that is happening in South America.Why anyone would support this sort of madness speaks to a certain sociopathic/sadistic streak in that individual.
"Why anyone would support this sort of madness speaks to a certain sociopathic/sadistic streak in that individual."Huh?
"Huh?"Bob Woodward says Bush is completely oblivious to what his admin. has wrought. Woodward sensed no guilt or remorse coming from Bush. I would imagine it is the same for Cheney, who probably actually thinks that what is happening in this country has nothing to do with his policies. It must be amazing to be so sheltered and oblivious.
Hey, I was just wondering if you still thought that the housing crisis was overblown. I think your original post was about a year ago.
In most parts of the country, yes!
Hey, I was just wondering if you still thought that the housing crisis was overblown. I think your original post was about a year ago.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If I am not mistaken you are in California. I understand your belief that we are in depression like times. It is not that way across the country, where some reason in housing prices and regulations, have not caused the run up in "value" of housing. That and the stupid decisions by people to use dumb mortgage products which allowed them to "temporarily"own a house.
If the government had rained in these products earlier, that also would have helped. Funny you should bring this up, when we have had 2 months of rebound in the housing market.
Why did you?
I think that we have yet to see the bottom in housing prices. As far as a recent upward trend, don't get too excited, we are not creating jobs in this country. Our manufacturing base has been decimated, and we don't seem to be doing anything really to kick start this part of our economy.The standard of living in the U.S. is due for a massive correction. This will continue until our economy reaches equilibrium with the rest of the world. We have so many macro challenges in this country, and seemingly lack the collective will to deal with them. Too many industrial complexes with vested interests in the status quo making it impossible to make any changes.Anyway, your post stuck in my mind. I will check back with you in another year.
The standard of living in the U.S. is due for a massive correction.>>>>>>>>>>>>...
No realism would be better.
Like a gov. that would stop spending, like on a 800bill stimulus that 6 mths later has only used 12%>
The one "good" thing is that the massive "backlog" in unsold homes is being worked down somewhat. Partly this is just due to people keeping houses off the market, but a substantial number of people who are reasonably secure financially are taking advantage of this opportunity for bargain hunting. And the pace of such purchases is apt to pick up after it's reasonably clear that the market has fully bottomed and is on its way back up.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz