How am I supposed to make any money ???!
Talked to a builder here ( SE Nebraska) today about putting vinyl siding and soffit on for him. New construction, two story with daylight basement, pretty chopped up front.
He claims the going labor rate for such work is 70 bucks a square, 2.50 a lineal foot for soffit.
Is he blowin smoke ? We do plenty of vinyl but its on renos and remodels and aver age prolly two or three times that price. I’d like to think we are proficient at it, but there is no way in he!! I can make any money at our speed ( 10-12 sq plus soffit, per 4 man crew/day average) at that price.
Are we that slow ? Or is he having me on ?
Replies
I don't do vinyl except for repairs but most of the builders I've met over the years are looking for the low ball guy. Focused on the bottom line. Stick to your guns at your price.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Building as thou art paranoid never harmed anyone.
THats not terrible. A guy around here does it all day long for $55 a square, any house you can throw at him.
If you don't have to j-channel all the windows or tyvek the house sounds reasonable to me.
Some can make decent money at those rates, some can't.
Thoughts determine what you want,
Action determines what you get
In new construction subs specialize. The pay tends to run cheap per square or whatever, but you should be able to get in and out much faster than on a remodel type situation. On the new construction there should be little to no substraight problems, no worry about material storage, parking, the shrubs, yard, kids, pets, time to "chat" with the HO etc, very few "silly questions" and you don't need to take your trash away - just put it in the bin. The vinyl siding guys I use can do a house in a day. That is all they do, and they are both very good and fast at it, although they told me they want to branch out into Hardie plank. I'm not sure how much they charge per square - they give me turn key prices for material and all - per house. It's difficult for a jack of all trades to compete in this kind of market.
In one HO situation I remember actually vacuuming a guy's yard! OK - not the whole thing. :-) Just where I had my saw table set up.
In Iowa, there are several builders who will pay around $60/Sq. House is tyveked and they provide materials.
Most of the crews I've seen have one lead to layout and cut, with two other workers nailing it up.
For the most part, I think they specialize in siding so they put it up pretty fast. Somebody is making money or they wouldn't be doing it.
Vinyl siding on new construction is commodity work, a craftsman cannot compete in this market. Someone will always be willing to do it for less.
Thanks guys for the info so far. I guess I hadn't looked at it that way. We'll see what happens....
vintage1
Somebody is making money or they wouldn't be doing it.
That really depends.. I used to sell equipment to them (siding appliers) but they seldom would get something paid for before bankruptcy so I stopped.
A lot of young guys would think that anything over 8 dollars and hour was fine wages.. and maybe compared to the small farm towns they came from it was..
That reminds me of two sayings. "I used to buy it from Joe until he went busted.' The other is, "It's amazing how we never have time to do it right the first time but we've always got time to do it over again."
Is that just labor?
Is that just labor?
Yes.
Edited 3/24/2007 12:33 am ET by woody1777
I would say $70/square labor isnt bad. I dont do siding often but when I do I price around 250/275 w/materials. I think i'm paying about $130 for materials / square, and i've been told i'm high priced.
Welcome to the wonderful world of new construction. I too make very good money on additions and remodels (I'm a framer)... but I'm getting paid that premium for my problem solving skills, flexibility, and experience. And then there's new construction....LOL.... yep I make pretty good money there too..... but it's because we burn rubber and for the most part, aren't getting paid to think! You can make money doing the new construction thing (often even off the lowball GC's) but you really gotta get your systems down, work hard, and be efficient.
dieselpig Is absolutely correct. you can't wander into this business and expect to make money.. hard work, technique, equipment, skill, knowledge, (not just of construction but of who is needing what done and which guys to work for and which to avoid). and working smart are what determines success in construction.
You can make money doing the new construction thing (often even off the lowball GC's) but you really gotta get your systems down, work hard, and be efficient.
That is kinda what I was thinking. OTOH it burns me to go after the new cnstruction work but it always works great to fill in the cracks of a schedule with. I think you hit the nail on the head with getting a system down and staying at it.
I haven't had the chance to really observe a new construction siding crew that much. Anybody have any trick or tips to pass on?
Thanks again for the input guys.
"Anybody have any trick or tips to pass on?'
new Const?
start early, bust azz and don't stop!
Thats the only way ... and that's on top of thinking everything thru first ... and planning ahead ... and having everything ready first.
No delays.
I have to add ... the new const world ain't for me. I've proven to myself I can hang ... as I was hanging cabs for a new const guy ... actually kept up, impressed and got him more work ... but that go, go, go speed just ain't me.
and I actually made a decent buck at that time too.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Sleep in, impress the hell out of them, and tell them you gotta leave early.
And specialise in something.
It took everything I knew to come up with something.
Architectural concrete
Heritage restoration
New construction
And it helped to be a bit creative. Now I make concrete fireplaces on the side.
Business is booming.
I like the sleep in/leave early part.
just told my current customer last week ...
"I'm leaving early 'cause I'm dirty. I have one hard and fast rule ... when I'm dirty ... I leave!"
it was fater a hard day's demo ... I plan my stuff "day to day" ... not hour to hour.
got more than I had intended done ... so I was outta there.
some 8 hour days are 6 hrs ... some are 10 hrs.
never can tell.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Now I make concrete fireplaces on the side.<<
Whatcha talkin' about?
HAve any photo's of your work?
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I do, but my computer skills are much like my sewing skills.
I'll try to get help with pictures today.
photo attached. (I hope)
Hey Woody one more thing, they make attachments for roofing guns to nail vinyl siding up with. Costs around $30 or so. It goes on a Bostitch gun. It speeds up the process quite a bit.
THey also use medium crown staplers with a special nosepiece for it.
Both work well and make it easier to make money. Also an 18 gauge narrow crown stapler for soffitt helps that process along as well.
Thoughts determine what you want,
Action determines what you get
Thanks for the tip, all my guns are Hitachi, anybody make a tip for that you know of ?
Maybe Ill get a couple Bostich guns if not....