AAARGH! I am at the stage of framing closets in our three-bedroom addition and I’m feeling stumped as to how big to make the closets. Two of the bedrooms will be kids bedrooms but we have plenty of space to devote to creating good storage in those two. Ceilings are nine feet. I’m thinking of framing a lid on the closets and creating an open shelf above (or a built in cabinet). What about depth? Is 30″ inside wasted space? What about width? I was leaning toward five feet wide with a pair of 24″ doors. Help! All suggestions welcome….
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Replies
Speaking from experience, deep closets, unless they are walk-ins, are a mistake! Things get lost in there!
Make them as deep as a hanger plus about 4". Deeper than that and it becomes a black hole of never looked at junk. This is the right depth for shelves too.
As to width, I like doors as wide as the closet. The difference between your 60" closet and 48" doors means 6" of space on each side will be dead space. You'll be fighting hangers to get something thats been hung against the walls or cursing that you can't put something on the shelves easily because of the wall.
For a standard, non walk-in type, 24" finish depth (25" to framing, plus 1/2" at each side for rock) seems to work well. A couple of inches extra wouldn't hurt, but anything over 30" would be excessive.
Typical is frame 25" deep so they finish out at 24".
That gives just the right space for things hanging on a coat hanger and rod
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When I frame my DGF's new house I'm going to make *all* the closets 60'x60'x2 story.
I'll give her two years before she's out of closet space again.
SamT
SamT
remember the name White..
they are the people who sell the moving rack that you see at your dry cleaners, they have a variety of sizes including one suitable for a decent sized home closet..
Women lust after closets like that..
You talkin' 'bout the roll-arounds?My "Woman" has three of them. Counting the one above, she has three closets. Plus bins in the three closets and two storerooms, which used to be bedrooms. Plus her BR which is really a storeroom with a bed in it.Not to mention the door mount hanger systems on all the doors in the house. I'm tellin' ya, I'm gonna build her a 60'x60' two story closetSamT
SamT
Wow, That's some serious closets! three huh? Everything listed on her computers according to what her aroma therapists recommends for coloration?
What's with the insults?SamT
SamT
I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be insulting, simply funny.
But, ya gotta be funny on yer own SO.You know,"Take my wife... Please"Never"Take your wife... Please."SamT
Edited 9/29/2007 11:04 pm by SamT
Sam T
as I said I'm sorry. I thought it was funny, not insulting..
I accept the apology. I'm not upset any longer.SamT
I don't think he's talking about anything that rolls.
He's referring to those conveyor racks at the cleaners.
In my next house, I'll have one of those in a somewhat smallest closet with the thing going up into the loft above, snaking around for about 30 feet until it comes back down. My wife has 6 large closets filled in this 4 bd house.
Wow, thanks for all the input everybody. There seems to be the 24" deep camp and the "why not make them bigger?" camp. I'm thinking that I'll go 28" deep (just to be different) and use a 48" wide french door for a 60" wide closet. For all the times I've framed closets off of a set of plans, I've never gone back and asked the clients how they worked.
I did a very involved closet remodel at the beginning of the year. One thing we did to maximize space was 'wardrobe lifts' They allow you to hang clothes up high but still have easy access.http://www.organizes-it.com/populldownrod.phphttp://www.kitchensource.com/laundry/ha-1128.htmAnd if you want to get the wife all hot n bothered I would suggest a shoe rack. A hidden shoe rack is even better. ;-)
Frame them as big as you can. You'll never regret it since you said that you have the space. Closets are the one thing that people always complain about being small.
For my kids, years ago, I built in a toybox about a foot deep on the floor of the closet, hinged lid.
Great place for junk, and a step up to get clothes on the rod above.
Build them like cabinets with 3/4" plywood, why waste space to studs and drywall. And 22 deep inside for hanging, full width doors too.
Trying to work within your description, here goes.
You could build the closet with a 7' height and 30" or 32" depth.
24" of depth for the hangers is best. The other 6" to 8" of depth can be used for a full set of shelves on the back wall. 1"x8" will give you nice 7 1/2" shelves for kids toys, books, shoes, whatever. A shelf every 12" gives you 25' of shelving.
7' height gives you 2' above for an open area, or frame it to match the opening below and add two doors the same width. Depends on what you want to store up there.
2 - 2' doors on a 5' wall will look good and are easy to hang.
If you've got the 24" clear space for the hangers, getting to the 6" space past the doors is easy.
And as someone else already said, lining the closet with 3/4" birch ply will let you do anything you want, now and in the future. I've done it for clients and in my own bedroom.
Don't forget a light in there. Really is a nice touch to a closet interior...buic
Seriously, I did just build a closet for my DGF. She measured the clothes she wanted to hang in it after grouping them by length, short, medium, long, and full length.
The length and height of the space were fixed by walls and ceiling, so that's what I had to work with. On the right, I built floor to standard closet shelf high, deep tall shelves for long term storage; wedding dress, mothers fur stole, kinda things.
Across the left, she wanted a nice, almost shaker style, chest of drawers her folks had made in Italy. That chest set my inside dimensions. I put short, shallow shelves above it.
I made a set of 1x6 shelves to fit on either side of two pair of bifolds, then DW'ed the room side of the shelves with back to back sheets of 1/4 DW masticed together with DW mud and an 1/8" notch trowel. I DW'ed both sides at the chest of drawers.
I put the hanger rod for the full length outfits across the right 12", in front of the long term storage shelves. The shelf above the hanger rods in front of the doors stopped 12" from the that rod and was made 1" narrower than 1/2 the depth of the closet. On the left it extends to the end shelf.
The top hanger rod under that shelf runs through a center divider. On one side of the divider are two rods, one for short things and the other for mediums.
I framed the door with a DW wrapped 2x4 to set it off, then, DW'ed the insides of the panel above the door and set a 1x6 shelf to the outside as a display area.
For an exterior switch in the wall, I used an RV junction box and put the wires behind decorative wall mount conduit ran through end notches on the shelf ends next to the door. The conduit butts the box and is clipped to the wall there.
What she got was a lot of medium to long term storage and a lot of easily accessible clothes hanging space.
SamT
This house we bought has a closet in the kids room that's 6' long with a 3' door at the one side. That makes the other 3' a pain in the butt to reach. And it has one rod at regular height. That's a big waste of space for a child. Better to have low rods and shelves above. Any depth beyond 24" or so is largely wasted until you get deep enough to orient the shelves along the sides (walk-in).
I personally like open shelves or cabinets above. Shelves inside the closet are harder to reach the higher they are.
city,
I usually frame them to finish at 24" deep, mabey a little deeper if I have the room and the doors are sliders or bi folds. A lot of gals seem to like to store cloths in plastic bins (sweaters and what not). If they own a bunch of these, make sure the closet works for these bins.
Jamb returns wide enough for interior casing. Any more is just PITA dead space at the sides of the interior.
If you go to Gary Katz website he has a nice piece about fitting out closets. You can probably get some more ideas there.
Harry
I don't understand. How can you be at the point of framing the closets and not know what size they will be. How did you determine what size the total dimension of the addition was going to be? Did you not have some sort of a plan. I'm not trying to be a smart A** but shouldn't the sizes of the closets have been determined before you got to this point. Anyway, as noted by others, don't make cloths closets any deeper than 24" finished unless they are walk-in closets. I have found that a good rule of thumb for basic front addressing closets is to make them approx. 1' wider than the door. (i.e. 48" closet, 36" door) At some point you may want to make two smaller closets.
For walk-in closets: width 72" to 84"with a 24" or 28" door works well. Min. depth, 36". This is a pretty good efficient use of floor space. With double hanging, you can get 12 lin. ft. of hanging in a 6' wide x 3' deep closet. Oh, the maximum length is determined only by the size of you building site. Just kidding, Check with you wife.
Cityhix, I really do hope this has been a help to you. There have been whole books written on this subject. Good luck.
Hey "oops" as SamT wonders: "why the insults?". I'm not particularly insulted, but have you never made changes to a design after the exterior walls were framed? I basically designed this addition and dictated it to a draftsman with the assumption that once we had the exterior walls framed that we could make final decisions about where exactly to put interior walls, closets, etc. Mine is a flexible world, how about yours?
For your world to be flexible, your wallet must be also.
Planning after it is partially built is a much more expensive way to do things. No insult intended, it's just a fact. I never mentioned it, but I had some of the same thoughts he expressed. I am currently helping my BIL out of a pickle. He is buildiong his second house now. First was a kit.This one he got the walls up and decided he needed help framing the roof to make it come together right.
So I aask, where are the plans.
None.
So where do I carry the loads down through....???We just set a couple kingposts 'till he can decide, then do that little item backwards later.Then as we finish the roof, he starts asking about how and where would be the stairs...Two floors all framed in solid and waiting 'till later to header and ut them in.I had the same Q - where are the plans?He desdribed aprox what he had in mind for a floor plan. I took some measurements and drew him up a plan that works and saves a lot of space over what he had in mind all in six hours. he loved it! Problem is, he could have saved 3-4 thousand bucks easy in wasted lumber and labour by planning ahead of time.So we professionals get open-mouthed aghast when we hear of someone building with no plan simply because we know it is not smart or efficient.
That is all he was trying to explain - no insult, just plain truth
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm sorry city/hix, I was only trying to help. You ask the question and I sincerely and seriously gave you the best advise that I could. And yes, I have made changes at my customers request after construction had started and often a great expense as Piffin noted. It certainly was never my intention to be insulting. Again I apologize for anything that I said that upset anyone.
Seriously, oops, no offense registered here. I certainly know that when a client can't make up their mind it can be infuriating and expensive (hopefully for the client and not you). On this project, I'm working for myself in my off hours and DW and I decided to save $$ by not spending lots of time during the design stage pinning down to the inch where interior walls would go or how big the closets would be. We figured why not get a roof on and then hammer out those details when we aren't paying the designer to sit there and listen to us discuss whether we want 24" or 30" deep closets. As I might tell a client, "Do as I say, not as I do". Thanks for the response, peace brother.
If the addition is already framed and the closets are the last thing left cut some plates to your rough size then lay them on the floor. Cut out the doorway so you get a good idea of what floor space it will occupy.
Don't like the size, cut another plate until you get it right.
Matt
" DW and I decided to save $$ by not spending lots of time during the design stage pinning down to the inch where interior walls would go or how big the closets would be. We figured why not get a roof on and then hammer out those details when we aren't paying the designer to sit there and listen to us discuss "
My learnin' amd 'xperience tells me your method is the most costly and time consuming. Commonly involving replacement and delays cause something wasn't considered early on. But of course, that's my 'xperience, cause I care how it looks at the end. As someone says, your milage may vary.
I agree, but perhaps the greatest waste is one that is hard to quantify, and one that does not occur in every case like this, but when one does proper design at the beginning, one can make far better use of the space, increasing your enjoyment of the home.
There is probably nothing more aggravating to people than to sit in a sofa and discover they cannot quite see that view because their window sills are 2" too high or a corner of a projecting closet gets in the line of sight. I am particular myself about arrangement of halls,walls, and windows relative to one another with regard to line of sight, flow of light, and traffic patterns. Just doing that can make a space *seem* to be half again as large as it really is!That may or may not have any application with this OPs project and to be fair, many people are absolutely handicapped with being able to conceive of these concepts interpreted through a draftsmans lines on paper. That is one reason I first started using CAD so I could present things in 3D format for the customer's viewing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>DW and I decided to save $$ by not spending lots of time during the design stage pinning down to the inch where interior walls would go or how big the closets would be.I advise my clients exactly the opposite. It's far easier to move a line on a computer or drawing that it is to move a framed wall. We can review 5, 10, 20 alternatives in the time that one wall could be framed. Design is exactly the time to settle on as many details as possible. But then, I don't charge by the hour, but rather by the project.
I have to restate that this is not a for-profit project. I'm paying the carpenter (me) exactly $0.00/hour (I'm sure that someone will debate me on that, but still). If I spend a bit of time scratching my head about things that we didn't set in stone during the design process, then the only thing wasted is....a bit of time. Guess what? I'm even going to move the window on my stair landing because I think it should be six inches higher. Any takers?
Now look here.You need to do it right.So...Tear down the existing house and finish the design phase before you start over....SamT
You are welcome to do whatever you want.Nobody is attacking you for it here.But this is an open discussion forum. The topics brought up serve as springboards for discussion and learning for hundreds or thousands of people around the country, depending how many click on your thread. The vast majority of readers of this forum are lurkers who are interested in working on their own homes, like yourself. So it is good to speak generically about the principle that apply to this sort of thing. It is not to try to convince you of something or to beat you up for having done it your way. No need to feel sensitive. And enjoy it. BTW, I just happened to think - did you plan a light for inside these?
Code would restrict it to fluorescent because of the heat of an incandescent bulb in close proximity to combustibles - i.e. must be 18" clear around it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, Well said, in regards to this being an open forum and the encouragement to not be sensitive. I'm enjoying the dialog re the question of should the design be set before beginning construction. Really, I am, and not in a "I really got those guys riled up" kind of way either."The vast majority of readers of this forum are lurkers who are interested in working on their own homes, like yourself".Am I guilty of being a lurker? Yes, for 5 1/2 years or so. In fact, I am also a GC and a professional carpenter for 15 years now. Not that long compared to some of the highly knowledgeable regulars here, but nothing to sneeze at either, I hope. And Piffin just so we don't get started again, no offense taken, or intended. Thanks for the heads up about the light. I will also remember to make sure the electrician puts the fluorescent up high enough so that there is still room to get head casing on the inside of the door. I've battled that once or twice.
While I didn't take his questions as insults, I also don't think exact closet sizing is all too big an issue on most projects.
"Where to put them", might cause some consternation and be a cost issue....but I doubt that 24" or 30" deep is going to throw any major wrench into the works.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
As others have mentioned 24"....the minimum....will do fine. I prefer a 30" deep closet if you can spare it. This has more to do with lighting the area than the actual depth needed.
A light in a 24" closet is useless. Unless the closet is sparsely filled, the light is blocked by the items themselves.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
If the room ceilings are 9'-0" and you "lid" the closets for an inside height of 90" (allows rods at 42" & 84" AFF), that's going to leave about 11" clear up top. That little height, you are going to want to restrict the depth up there to no more than about 24".
Catch-22 kicks in, too--you get to 84" ceiling-ing closets, and you get to have too much fun with the inside door trim.
How to "do" a closet really depends on what you are planning to put inside it. Maybe an "L" of shelves, rods, hanging basket/drawer units. Or maybe a "U" or some other shape. The furniture the Design Committee, she requires to be in the room versus in the closet, matters, too. You don't need to make space in the closet (usually) for storage drawers if [insert relation]'s armoire is to be on display out in the room.
If we are dealing with existing, known children, then you might have a decent 'starting place.' Take the amount of "stuff" they have now. Double the volume, and triple the linear feet, and work from that. Always leave some room for full-length hanging items.
Alternately, you can (if the Design Committee allows) just not have closets at all. Send doubters off to check out the elfa stuff at container store (and for those prices, you ought not be covering that stuff up <g>).
Another poster recommended cabinetry; I'll second that. Casework lets you use a lot more floor space for your intended use. Also, if you install 90" tall case work, you get all 18" under your 108" ceiling, too. (Cleat a false back in if you go deeper than 24" on the casework for the top shelf--unless you have really, really long arms.)